Logs on 2021-09-12 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:26:02 | <zzz> | what's a good resource for someone to start exploring working with bits in haskell? |
| 00:26:51 | <zzz> | like arbitrarily sized sequences of bits and so on |
| 00:30:11 | <zzz> | i'm assuming there are better alternatives to [Bool] |
| 00:32:42 | <dsal> | Any particular bit you'd like to work with? |
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| 00:34:36 | <dsal> | I've worked with a combination of attoparsec and binary in a project a few years go which was reading some data out of one of my RC battery chargers. |
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| 00:34:55 | <dsal> | Actually, no attoparsec here. I use that in a different protocol. |
| 00:34:56 | <geekosaur> | iirc Data.Vector.Unboxed of Bool packs the bits |
| 00:35:21 | <geekosaur> | but it won't be ideal for bit operations like and/or |
| 00:35:37 | <geekosaur> | see Data.Bits for that |
| 00:38:56 | <zzz> | i actually want to do things like manipulating a list of WordX and a list of WordY and then comparing them, where X and Y are arbitrary |
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| 02:33:43 | <Cajun> | could probably use some sort of type level Natural for that |
| 02:33:54 | <Cajun> | sounds like an interesting library/exercise idea |
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| 02:48:26 | <Boarders> | is it possible to write a type family in Haskell that goes like '[] |-> (# #), '[Int] |-> (# Int #), '[Int, Int] |-> (# Int, Int #) etc. |
| 02:48:57 | <Boarders> | I think the kind sig would be something like: type Unbox :: [Type] -> (forall ks . TYPE (TupleRep ks) |
| 02:48:59 | <Boarders> | but that is not working |
| 02:50:46 | <Boarders> | geekosaur: Data.Vector.Unboxed doesn't pack the bits: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-0.12.3.0/docs/src/Data.Vector.Unboxed.Base.html#line-338 |
| 02:50:54 | <Boarders> | It converts back and forth to a Word8 |
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| 03:12:38 | <ldlework> | Trying to implement Maybe Monoid instance, and it's not working |
| 03:12:39 | <ldlework> | https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/7c00fe33d757ffa447228707836e9b90 |
| 03:12:42 | <ldlework> | Where have I gone wrong? |
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| 03:38:10 | <Cajun> | Idlework: in modern versions of haskell, you must define semigroups, which are like what you are trying to do but instead define the operator (<>). (<>) is mappend |
| 03:38:26 | <Cajun> | mappend still exists but for backwards compatibility as far as i know |
| 03:38:56 | <Cajun> | monoids are semigroups but with an empty/unit representation |
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| 04:59:35 | <_alexm_> | hi, I'm trying to build intuition around covariance and contravariance, in the fpcomplete article on that topic there is an exercise asking to determine whether a certain data type is covariant or contravariant. E.g. for the newtype E6 a = E6 ((() -> a -> a) -> ()) I've come up with contramap f (E6 g) = E6 (\cb -> g $ \h -> flip const $ f . (cb h)) |
| 04:59:59 | <_alexm_> | but I'm having problems with newtype E7 a = E7 ((() -> () -> a) -> a) |
| 05:00:34 | <_alexm_> | is this type neither covariant nor contravariant, hence, invariant? |
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| 05:15:55 | <mniip> | _alexm_, your contramap for E6 is not functorial |
| 05:16:02 | <mniip> | (contramap id != id) |
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| 05:22:27 | <_alexm_> | mniip, any clues on how I can make a lawful instance? |
| 05:23:04 | <mniip> | you can't |
| 05:23:07 | <mniip> | but that would be a clue |
| 05:24:47 | <_alexm_> | is it invariant then, because the type parameter is both negative and positive? |
| 05:24:52 | <mniip> | yes |
| 05:25:05 | <_alexm_> | and the same applies to E7 |
| 05:25:12 | <mniip> | yes |
| 05:29:25 | <_alexm_> | and this one: newtype E9 a = E9 ((() -> () -> ()) -> ()) must be bivariant because the data type is phantom? |
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| 06:00:57 | <mniip> | yes |
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| 06:21:10 | <_alexm_> | mniip, thanks! |
| 06:27:13 | <Axman6> | Boarders: Can you do something like type family Unbox (ks :: [Type]] where Unbox ks = TYPE (TupleRep ks) seems close to what you had but not quite the same? |
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| 07:21:40 | <ldlework> | Cajun: when I change `mappend` to `(<>)` it says ‘<>’ is not a (visible) method of class ‘Monoid’ |
| 07:22:00 | <Cajun> | define (<>) in a Semigroup instance |
| 07:22:21 | <Cajun> | monoids are semigroups, and the append operation comes from the Semigroup instance |
| 07:22:45 | <Cajun> | if youre reading an article/textbook and its telling you to just define a monoid with mappend, its because its dated |
| 07:23:10 | <ldlework> | oh so literally implement an instance of Semigroup which is where (<>) is defined? |
| 07:23:18 | <Cajun> | yup! |
| 07:23:48 | <Cajun> | mappend only exists as a legacy function, its unlawful to have its definition be different than the Semigroup definition |
| 07:23:52 | <ldlework> | Cajun: is there some other version of mempty to use too? |
| 07:24:02 | <Cajun> | no |
| 07:24:08 | <ldlework> | okay thanks for the guidance |
| 07:25:00 | <Cajun> | Semigroups are a datatype that can append, but not necessarily have a unit/empty value. monoids can append (because they are instances of Semigroup) and they have an empty/unit value (because thats what it means to be a monoid) |
| 07:25:26 | <Cajun> | semigroups are a typeclass that implements an* |
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| 07:27:24 | <ldlework> | Cajun: is there an interactive site where you can explore these relationships |
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| 07:28:04 | <Cajun> | you can check the documentation or the wiki but im not sure if there is anything that is interactive |
| 07:28:07 | <Cajun> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Data.Semigroup |
| 07:28:48 | <ldlework> | Ah, I wonder if the network could be extracted systematically from Haskell source |
| 07:29:20 | <ldlework> | Or maybe haskell is powerful enough to introspectively compute it? |
| 07:29:30 | <Cajun> | it would be cool to see a web for that like there are for dependencies |
| 07:29:38 | <ldlework> | yeah! |
| 07:30:15 | <Cajun> | https://wiki.haskell.org/File:Typeclassopedia-diagram.png |
| 07:30:28 | <ldlework> | ah neato |
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| 07:46:22 | <mjrosenb> | so, I have a function that uses the lens function `use`, and now I'm trying to change it to accept `use` as a parameter, but the types are not behaving. |
| 07:46:30 | <mjrosenb> | is it even possible to do this? |
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| 07:48:31 | <Cajun> | could you give the code excerpts? |
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| 07:53:09 | <mjrosenb> | not really right now, it is buried in like 80 lines of code, and too many constructors. I'll get a small example in the morning. |
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| 08:09:07 | <ldlework> | Cajun: this image doesn't show magma :P |
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| 08:09:26 | <Cajun> | is magma part of base? |
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| 08:18:01 | <sshine> | Cajun, no |
| 08:18:14 | <Cajun> | figured as much :P |
| 08:18:15 | <sshine> | Cajun, only Monoid and Semigroup in that hierarchy |
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| 08:18:49 | <sshine> | https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=Magma :) |
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| 08:19:40 | <sshine> | so it's in lens and numhask, it seems. |
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| 08:20:32 | <Cajun> | the numhask one seems to be more along the lines of an actual Magma |
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| 09:11:10 | <ldlework> | Prelude> (fmap . fmap) replaceWithP lms |
| 09:11:12 | <ldlework> | [Just 'p',Nothing,Just 'p'] |
| 09:11:14 | <ldlework> | my head! |
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| 10:43:27 | <ldlework> | I'm stuck on a challenge to implement an instance of Functor for `data Pair a = Pair a a` but I can't understand how it could work, because the fmapped result will necessarily be of type `Pair a b` since the fmap first arg is defined as `a -> b` |
| 10:43:41 | <ldlework> | Is it a bug in the challenge or am I missing a concept somewhere |
| 10:44:39 | <ldlework> | instance Functor Pair where fmap f (Pair v1 v2) = Pair v1 (f v2) |
| 10:44:59 | <ldlework> | It complains that the last term (f v2) can't match actual type `b` to expected type `a` |
| 10:45:11 | <ldlework> | Which makes sense because `f` returns `b` |
| 10:45:18 | <ldlework> | As per Functor |
| 10:46:35 | <ldlework> | If I define the type as `type Pair a b = Pair a b` it works, but that's not what the challenge asks for |
| 10:46:59 | <ldlework> | Maybe for `Pair a a` I'm supposed to run `f` over both values |
| 10:48:25 | <ldlework> | Ah yeah that works. That must be what I was missing. It's only for type constructors with two args that you can only map the innermost value |
| 10:48:54 | <Rembane> | ldlework: When you're done with the challenge, take a look at the Functor instance for Either. |
| 10:49:10 | <ldlework> | Rembane: I bet it only maps the Right value |
| 10:49:17 | <Rembane> | ldlework: Bingo! |
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| 10:58:05 | <ldlework> | Oh. Functor for Maybe and Either are helpful for not having to handle the Nothing/Left cases... |
| 10:58:07 | <ldlework> | interesting! |
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| 10:58:57 | <ldlework> | Oh wow, I just found https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cml |
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| 10:59:45 | <ldlework> | that's awesome |
| 11:00:32 | <ldlework> | wait is `fromMaybe` implemented as `fmap id` |
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| 11:01:03 | <Rembane> | :t fmap id |
| 11:01:04 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => f b -> f b |
| 11:01:08 | <Rembane> | :t fromMaybe |
| 11:01:09 | <lambdabot> | a -> Maybe a -> a |
| 11:01:43 | <Rembane> | fmap id seems to be missing something, doesn't it? |
| 11:01:43 | <ldlework> | hmm |
| 11:02:06 | <ldlework> | yeah, it returns the Maybe |
| 11:02:09 | <ldlework> | rather than the inner value |
| 11:02:18 | <ldlework> | So `fmap id` just leaves the Maybe alone |
| 11:02:20 | <ldlework> | makes sense |
| 11:02:21 | <Rembane> | Exactly. |
| 11:02:27 | <Rembane> | Here's the actual implementation: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/src/Data-Maybe.html#fromMaybe |
| 11:02:50 | <ldlework> | oh right because you give it a default too |
| 11:02:54 | <Rembane> | Yes |
| 11:03:49 | <ldlework> | i like that you can make any function work on any time that implements Functor by composing it with fmap |
| 11:03:54 | <ldlework> | on any type* |
| 11:04:16 | <ldlework> | incMaybe = fmap . (+1) |
| 11:04:18 | <ldlework> | right? |
| 11:04:22 | <ldlework> | or rather |
| 11:04:29 | <ldlework> | incMaybe = fmap (+1) |
| 11:04:37 | <ldlework> | I guess no composition needed, just partial application |
| 11:05:05 | <ldlework> | hmm I guess that would work over any Functor, not just Maybe |
| 11:05:50 | <ldlework> | I guess you'd call it finc :D |
| 11:06:56 | <Rembane> | ^^ |
| 11:07:03 | <Rembane> | :t fmap . (+1) |
| 11:07:04 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f, Num (a -> b)) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
| 11:07:11 | <Rembane> | :t fmap (+1) |
| 11:07:12 | <lambdabot> | (Functor f, Num b) => f b -> f b |
| 11:08:05 | <ldlework> | The former would add 1 to the argument, probably a function, and blow up. Or the first argument is a Num, and the addition works, but fails to be passed to fmap as the first arg |
| 11:08:19 | <Rembane> | > (fmap . (+1)) (*2) (Just 7) |
| 11:08:21 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 11:08:21 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Num (Integer -> Integer)) |
| 11:08:21 | <lambdabot> | arising from a use of ‘e_1127’ |
| 11:08:25 | <Rembane> | Ach! :D |
| 11:08:59 | <Rembane> | Yeah, functions need a Num instance, which they can have, but it makes everything interesting in other ways. |
| 11:09:08 | <ldlework> | whatt |
| 11:09:10 | <ldlework> | lol |
| 11:09:25 | <ldlework> | like using + on functions? |
| 11:09:52 | <ldlework> | I guess it would just be some kind of combination of the functions |
| 11:10:32 | <ldlework> | I guess no different than . as an operator or whatever |
| 11:10:33 | <Rembane> | Yeah, what does f + g mean? :) |
| 11:10:36 | <ldlework> | just a higher order function |
| 11:10:53 | <ldlework> | could mean a number of things I guess |
| 11:11:03 | <Rembane> | It's very much up to you what you choose to model. |
| 11:11:37 | <ldlework> | since `f + g` is really just `(+) f g` and it might as well be `glippityglop f g` |
| 11:11:42 | <ldlework> | aka some random HOF |
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| 11:13:43 | <Rembane> | Yes! |
| 11:14:07 | <ldlework> | Copilot has learned the Functor laws slightly incorrectly |
| 11:14:16 | <ldlework> | Instead of writing the test |
| 11:14:17 | <ldlework> | -- >>> fmap not . fmap not $ p |
| 11:14:19 | <ldlework> | it writes |
| 11:14:30 | <ldlework> | -- >>> fmap (not . not) . fmap (not . not) $ p |
| 11:20:46 | <Hecate> | haha nice |
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| 11:25:39 | <int-e> | well it's not wrong? |
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| 11:26:46 | <[itchyjunk]> | wait, what does f + g mean for f,g functions? |
| 11:26:57 | <int-e> | usually \x -> f x + g x |
| 11:27:15 | <[itchyjunk]> | ah |
| 11:27:24 | <int-e> | > (1 + id) 2 |
| 11:27:26 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 11:27:26 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Num (Integer -> Integer)) |
| 11:27:26 | <lambdabot> | arising from a use of ‘e_112’ |
| 11:27:35 | <int-e> | okay. I was wondering about that. |
| 11:28:05 | <int-e> | (lambdabot used to have that instance by default... now it's there intermittently, whenever a fan of that instance defines it) |
| 11:28:40 | <int-e> | With the Num instance, that would evaluate to 3. |
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| 11:34:43 | <ldlework> | [itchyjunk]: but my point was its semantics could be anything |
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| 11:36:10 | <[itchyjunk]> | sure, the symbol or it's meaning is context dependent |
| 11:36:45 | <[itchyjunk]> | oh so in java, "overloading" is the same as ad hoc polymorphism |
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| 11:36:57 | <[itchyjunk]> | What's an example (easy) of ad hoc polymorphism in haskell? |
| 11:37:45 | <[itchyjunk]> | hmm i might have to learn a bit more haskell before i ask these questions actually |
| 11:38:20 | <[itchyjunk]> | because idk if + wors for anything other than int.. which i don't think it does? |
| 11:38:22 | <[itchyjunk]> | :t + |
| 11:38:23 | <lambdabot> | error: parse error on input ‘+’ |
| 11:38:31 | <[itchyjunk]> | :t (+) |
| 11:38:32 | <lambdabot> | Num a => a -> a -> a |
| 11:39:12 | <Rembane> | > fmap (+1) (Just 7) |
| 11:39:13 | <lambdabot> | Just 8 |
| 11:39:15 | <Rembane> | > fmap (+1) (Right 7) |
| 11:39:17 | <lambdabot> | Right 8 |
| 11:39:22 | <Rembane> | [itchyjunk]: That one perhaps? |
| 11:39:47 | <Rembane> | [itchyjunk]: We're using the Functor instances for Maybe and Either. |
| 11:40:27 | <[itchyjunk]> | I am trying to remember what a Functor is.. is that a map between categories? |
| 11:40:39 | <Rembane> | :t fmap |
| 11:40:40 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
| 11:40:50 | <Rembane> | Dunno about that, but the signature is above |
| 11:43:04 | <[itchyjunk]> | i vaguely understand |
| 11:43:23 | <Rembane> | And you can replace f with Maybe and (Either x) to get the specialized type signatures. |
| 11:46:53 | <[itchyjunk]> | yes! this makes sense. ty |
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| 11:47:52 | <Rembane> | No worries. :) |
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| 11:54:20 | <ldlework> | > We come now to Applicative. Applicatives are monoidal functors. No, no, stay with us. |
| 11:54:21 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:67: error: parse error on input ‘,’ |
| 11:54:28 | <ldlework> | 😩 it's 7AM I think i'll sleep instead |
| 11:54:31 | <ldlework> | heh |
| 11:57:06 | <ldlework> | [itchyjunk]: An instance of Functor for a type `a` "lifts" a function (like (+)) "over the structure" of `a` allowing (+) to work on data within `a` |
| 11:57:33 | <ldlework> | So, a Functor for lists, lets you lift a function over the structure of the list, and apply it to the values in the list |
| 11:57:55 | <ldlework> | A functor for strings, let's you lift a function over the structure of the string, and run the function over the characters inside |
| 11:58:14 | <ldlework> | A functor for Maybe lets you run a function on the value inside the Maybe (if there is one) |
| 11:58:27 | <ldlework> | A functor for Either lets you run a function on the Right value |
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| 12:56:44 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Yo! |
| 12:56:53 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | I need someone to run my project and see how long it takes with and without this patch. https://github.com/kindaro/paths-in-cube/commit/d79cd4a77f168ab5f5e841c30ade05e51db969f5 |
| 12:57:02 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | It has huge effect on performance on my machine and I want to confirm it somewhere else. |
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| 13:04:37 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | This channel looks unusually dead… |
| 13:09:28 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Has the migration from `freenode` taken a toll? |
| 13:09:44 | <int-e> | maybe, but it generally tends to quiet down on weekends too |
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| 13:14:26 | <yushyin> | it is still one of the channels with the most traffic compared to other channels i participate in |
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| 13:19:39 | <pavonia> | IgnatInsarov[m]: trace internally uses unsafePerformIO, so it's likely that the new code evaluates things more often |
| 13:19:58 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | How so? |
| 13:20:05 | <pavonia> | Btw, don't you want `trace "" $ buildTree (Set.fromList theBox) function` anyway? |
| 13:20:13 | <pavonia> | (note the $) |
| 13:20:25 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | I want it to run fast. |
| 13:20:28 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Did you run it? |
| 13:20:38 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Please run it and see how `$` changes things. |
| 13:20:48 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | I promise you will be amused. |
| 13:21:02 | <pavonia> | Or you tell me which is faster :p |
| 13:22:12 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | I do not want you to believe me, I want you to see for yourself. |
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| 13:22:32 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Maybe my measurements are wrong. |
| 13:23:04 | <pavonia> | The thing is, do not rely on code that uses trace, because you might be using it wrong and you might get fast but incorrect results |
| 13:24:14 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | I should surely like not to rely on it. |
| 13:25:54 | <pavonia> | Though I'm confused why `trace "" buildTree` is faster, evaluating `buildTree` should be a no-op |
| 13:27:46 | <pavonia> | Maybe the problem is related to specialization of types |
| 13:28:01 | <int-e> | IgnatInsarov[m]: try either {-# NOINLINE buildTree #-} or memory = lazy (buildTree (Set.fromList theBox) function) where lazy is from GHC.Exts. There's probably some obscure inlining decisions that GHC takes otherwise that cause the program to recompute the "tree". |
| 13:28:56 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Yep I tried `noinline`ing everything, it did not make any difference. Maybe I should try again. |
| 13:29:09 | <int-e> | But I'm not in the mood to investigate (which would involve looking at stg code, and possibly even tracing the simplifier) |
| 13:29:55 | <int-e> | I tried both of those and they helped for me |
| 13:29:55 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | pavonia: Specialization is surely an important aspect when it comes to memoization: <https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/plfotc/examples_of_compiler_optimizations_changing/> |
| 13:30:21 | <int-e> | {-# NOINLINE memory #-}, on the other hand, didn't help |
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| 13:31:30 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Oh you are right, they actually work. |
| 13:31:42 | <int-e> | but I can't really explain why they help... I followed my gut. |
| 13:31:58 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | I suppose I tried the pragmas on some other variant of the code. |
| 13:32:18 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | I have been re-arranging it for a few hours last night. |
| 13:33:02 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | int-e: How should I quote you? |
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| 13:33:12 | <int-e> | don't bother |
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| 13:33:34 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Since you found a solution, I have to attribute it to you when I write about it. |
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| 13:33:52 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | «A friendly person on IRC»? |
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| 13:34:17 | <int-e> | Works for me. int-e on IRC works too, I just don't think I did a whole lot here. |
| 13:34:34 | <int-e> | The real work would be in explaining the difference. |
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| 13:56:31 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | I wrote it up on Reddit: <https://www.reddit.com/r/haskellquestions/comments/pmt3g8/why_does_adding_trace_give_a_tenfold_speed_up/> |
| 13:56:55 | <IgnatInsarov[m]> | Thanks everyone and see you all later. |
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| 14:26:07 | <maerwald> | IgnatInsarov[m]: where's the repo again? |
| 14:29:10 | <mangoiv> | Hi, is there a recommended order of files to look into when I'm trying to read myself into the WayMonad project? I'd love to contribute but such projects are always soooo big I get frustrated tryin to understand what's going on really quickly... |
| 14:29:15 | <mangoiv> | Thanks in advance y'all |
| 14:32:29 | <lechner> | Hi, would someone please help me with these type errors? I have a hard time seeing what's going on. https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Itli1J6O#file-2 |
| 14:35:57 | <kuribas> | lechner: you need lazy Text, not strict Text. |
| 14:36:04 | <kuribas> | Data.Text.Lazy |
| 14:36:55 | <lechner> | kuribas: thanks! |
| 14:37:29 | <maerwald> | IgnatInsarov[m]: I found it |
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| 14:47:20 | <geekosaur> | mangoiv, there's a pointer to a matrix room in the right sidebar of https://github.com/L-as/waymonad, you might have more luck there |
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| 14:53:59 | <mangoiv> | geekosaur, thanks for your answer, I'll definitely look into that. (First I gotta get back to a distro with Systemd, otherwise no Nix D: ) |
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| 14:54:25 | <mangoiv> | (say, how do you get those fany name colors?) |
| 14:54:56 | <geekosaur> | your client does it, irc normally doesn't have color to speak of |
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| 15:00:59 | <lechner> | mangoiv geekosaur: thanks for that pointer. i'm a former xmonad user. why is the 'hayland' library mentioned here obsolete, and what is its replacement? https://github.com/L-as/waymonad#hsroots |
| 15:03:11 | <geekosaur> | that I couldn't tell you. I'm an xmonad developer. I'm aware of waymonad but not much beyond that |
| 15:03:58 | <geekosaur> | but I'd guess hayland is a Haskell binding or reimplementation of the basic Wayland library |
| 15:04:07 | <lechner> | okay, thanks! perhaps it's ohe of these https://github.com/abooij/sudbury#related-projects |
| 15:04:45 | <lechner> | or sudbury itself, although there has been no activity |
| 15:06:14 | <lechner> | geekosaur: also, thaks for xmonad. it was great under X |
| 15:06:20 | <lechner> | thnks |
| 15:06:29 | <lechner> | thanks |
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| 15:56:10 | <janus> | why is the quadratic Aeson problem not visible on https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/top/?t=month ? i can still see it on https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/pm7rcr/cs_syd_json_vulnerability_in_haskells_aeson/ |
| 15:56:34 | <kuribas> | janus: it's there? |
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| 16:00:03 | <janus> | kuribas: aaah ok i must have somehow hid it by accident, it has happened before.. still don't know how this happens |
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| 16:00:13 | <janus> | i must be hitting some hotkey ... |
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| 16:01:00 | lechner | did not know about r/ hide feature |
| 16:02:15 | <janus> | RES has this feature... but on the other hand, it shouldn't work in incognito mode, and it does... so weird |
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| 17:41:13 | <Las[m]> | Does anyone know whether there's a way to make all functions INLINABLE? |
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| 17:42:37 | <Las[m]> | lechner: AFAIU it's marked obsolete because the author moved onto Sudbury as you can tell |
| 17:42:57 | <Las[m]> | The main difference being Sudbury doesn't interface with libwayland |
| 17:43:11 | <Las[m]> | The reason Waymonad uses Hayland is because we need to interface with libwayland, since that's what wlroots uses |
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| 18:17:03 | <lechner> | Las[m]: thanks! I am currently on sway and look forward to your compositor |
| 18:17:52 | <Las[m]> | lechner: Thanks! Hopefully I'll get some progress done. |
| 18:19:19 | <Las[m]> | elvishjerricco: Did you ever find an answer to https://old.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/6i2t27/ghc_option_for_marking_everything_inlinable/ ? |
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| 23:19:46 | <elvishjerricco> | Las[m]: I did not, but I've since learned that was a bad idea anyway. In this GHC proposal https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/313 Alexis pointed out that she tried compiling a sizable project with everything inlinable and GHC just wouldn't terminate; it had too much to try and specialize |
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| 23:26:16 | <Cajun> | so i was looking into lens libraries and i noticed two big ones, `lens` and `optics` so i was wondering what is the best one to use. i understand the implementation differences, but what about actually just using it? |
| 23:27:01 | <ldlework> | Cajun: I haven't gotten there but I heard that `lens` is more traditional and formal and `optics` is more egronomic and goes beyond the formalism to make it easier to use |
| 23:27:06 | <ldlework> | that's just what i heard |
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| 23:27:58 | <geekosaur> | they're equivalent at included functionality. optics is easier for beginners because it has better error messages, lens has more power for advanced users because it's easily expandable |
| 23:29:20 | <Cajun> | nice, optics seems like a good start then. ive watched the long 2hr talk the dev of the lens library gave along with some optics tutorials, but they never go into detail about using it within a monad transformer stack. is there any good article/talk/textbook chapter on that? |
| 23:30:30 | <geekosaur> | that I couldn't really tell you. although both provide some stuff for working directly with StateT in particular |
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| 23:40:22 | <c_wraith> | optics is a closed ecosystem, lens is open. With all the advantages and disadvantages that brings to both |
| 23:41:18 | <ldlework> | i'm glad others chimed in to give real takes :D |
| 23:43:57 | <c_wraith> | to expand slightly: optics has a list of things you are allowed to do. When you try to do anything else, you get vocal error messages telling you that's not allowed. lens just says "here are some things, do whatever you want", and it allows a lot more to be done. But that's at the cost of ghc making half-sense of things you wrote and telling you about a unification error nowhere near your actual bug |
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| 23:44:16 | <dsal> | lens lets you do *weird* stuff. |
| 23:44:29 | <dsal> | With hypergeneric mechanisms. |
| 23:44:53 | <c_wraith> | also, there are things optics *could* do, and just chooses not to. At least one of which is really nice. |
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| 23:46:24 | <c_wraith> | holesOf is great fun for fanout sorts of problems. |
| 23:47:44 | <ldlework> | Yesterday I learned about Monoids, Functors and Applicatives |
| 23:47:57 | <ldlework> | Words I thought I would never bother to understand :P |
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| 23:51:40 | <Cajun> | with that toolset you might want to take a look at Alternative |
| 23:51:51 | <ldlework> | I think HFFP is going to move onto Monad proper next |
| 23:52:01 | <ldlework> | But I just wrote down "Alternative" in my notes, so thanks |
| 23:52:32 | <Cajun> | yeah its to do with Monoids and Applicatives. its quite useful when you need it |
| 23:52:42 | <c_wraith> | Alternative can show up in a lot of places, but it's something you use constantly when writing parsers in particular. |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-09-12.