Logs on 2021-11-07 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:06:16 | <sm> | gentauro: 20.5 hours ? |
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| 00:07:06 | <geekosaur> | there was a time when I was young and could pull that kind of shit off |
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| 00:07:42 | <maerwald> | I'm glad when I can code for 4 hours straight lol |
| 00:08:10 | <sm> | that's too long |
| 00:08:40 | <maerwald> | yeah... I mean, I used to do it for 12 hours straight |
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| 00:14:47 | sm | imagines the impact of 20 straight productive, on-target hours |
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| 00:20:16 | <maerwald> | 1 ibuprophen per 4 hours... so 5 in total |
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| 00:28:54 | <sm> | I mean, on the backlog |
| 00:29:33 | <sm> | fantasising a little. There are some people who can maintain perspective and stay on target and productive for long periods.. |
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| 00:46:56 | <justsomeguy> | The problem that I run into is that I never know what tasks I have to do until I start trying to solve a problem, then they just arise as I break things down, ususally in a fractal kind of way. I guess that's where experience and organization come into play. |
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| 01:12:41 | <koala_man> | what's the preferred practice for choosing a Stack resolver? I'm about to push a new version of ShellCheck and it's currently using lts-13.26 |
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| 01:19:17 | <dsal> | I guess it got complicated. I used to just take whatever latest LTS was, but it seems like the haskell.nix stuff may have drifted form something sensible. I don't know the details, though. |
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| 01:40:50 | <sm> | koala_man: do you mean in the stack.yaml in the source tree ? that matters only to contributors, right ? |
| 01:41:33 | <koala_man> | anyone who builds from source using stack presumably |
| 01:42:49 | <sm> | yes, some version of the latest lts is a good choice |
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| 01:44:40 | <sm> | if you're actively developing and updating, a recent nightly is also a decent choice, that way you're always ready to be in stackage |
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| 01:54:42 | <Inst> | does anyone use capi here? |
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| 01:56:05 | <Inst> | capi ffi? or is anyone in general familiar with capi ffi? |
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| 03:30:19 | <arahael> | Is it possible to have a Text type contain haskell code, which I then interpret and produce a result? |
| 03:30:31 | <arahael> | Basically I want to do: print foo; eval foo. |
| 03:32:57 | <koala_man> | what does lambdabot do? |
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| 03:36:47 | <arahael> | koala_man: Ok, ok, I'm aware it's /possible/. But is there an easy, convenient way to do this? |
| 03:37:15 | <koala_man> | looks like it uses 'mueval', and is meant for sandboxing and not arbitrary use |
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| 03:39:43 | <koala_man> | arahael: what kind of context and interop are you hoping for? |
| 03:40:36 | <arahael> | koala_man: Literally the two functions I was suggesting. Ideally, 'eval foo' would modify the current program, registering any new functions, so probably would require template haskell. |
| 03:42:35 | <koala_man> | I don't know what I'm talking about, but I imagine that's only an option in an interpreted mode like with ghci |
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| 03:50:04 | <arahael> | I suppose I could always give this a play: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/plugins-1.6.0/docs/System-Eval-Haskell.html |
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| 03:54:41 | <koala_man> | doesn't look like it'll let you modify a running program, but I'd be interested to know how it goes |
| 03:55:36 | <arahael> | It seems it does - at least, it'll register the new code. |
| 03:56:22 | <arahael> | Ah, probably not, but even so, hopefully it returns a function I can call. |
| 03:56:56 | <koala_man> | that seems more likely, yes |
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| 03:58:40 | <arahael> | Alternatively, I could just load the module source, strip out the imports, and use that as the string. |
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| 04:01:27 | <arahael> | What I want to do is literate programming with haskell, but not with the usual html output. |
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| 04:06:01 | <arahael> | Well, sorta - I also want to have the program output interpsersed with that literate code. |
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| 04:11:17 | <arahael> | Nice - found this: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/markdown-unlit (which is almost what I want), now I mostly just need to figure out how to evaluate the code so that the output is shown in the markdown output. |
| 04:12:35 | <arahael> | Perhaps I should have a mulitple-stage build? 1. Compile program, 2. Generate literate documents, with placeholders 3. Post-process those as a template and update them filling in the placeholders... |
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| 04:23:02 | <koala_man> | that's definitely sounds more straight forward than full eval support |
| 04:25:15 | <arahael> | Hmm, ok! |
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| 04:34:56 | <sm> | waay easier |
| 04:36:59 | <sm> | I believe there's a tool that'll insert program output and maybe test it for you, but that's all I remember |
| 04:38:50 | <sm> | maybe https://hackage.haskell.org/package/readme-lhs is one |
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| 04:43:24 | <sm> | quite hard to get your head around this, but I suspect it's good |
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| 04:46:06 | <sm> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/numhask, interesting |
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| 04:47:28 | <c_wraith> | that has the typical problem mathematically accurate class hierarchies usually do |
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| 04:48:16 | <c_wraith> | It has classes which have laws but no members |
| 04:48:52 | <EvanR> | as god intended |
| 04:49:00 | <c_wraith> | while that's not a huge conceptual problem, it does result in inference reporting the wrong thing |
| 04:50:06 | <EvanR> | i thought you were going to say it was the unicode operators |
| 04:50:11 | <EvanR> | (⊕) :: a -> a -> a |
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| 04:50:42 | <arahael> | sm: That looks like what I want, might be worth playing with that. |
| 04:53:51 | <sm> | c_wraith: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/numhask-0.8.1.0/docs/NumHask.html#g:4 seems to be touching on that (inference) |
| 04:54:28 | <c_wraith> | sm: that's not what I'm talking about. |
| 04:54:36 | <sm> | ah |
| 04:55:22 | <c_wraith> | I mean: what's the type of (1 + 2) * 3? |
| 04:55:47 | <c_wraith> | You really want it to be Ring a => a |
| 04:55:53 | <c_wraith> | But that isn't what it will infer |
| 04:58:28 | <c_wraith> | And because the Ring class adds laws, there's a difference in expectation between something that says it is a ring and something that says it's a multiplicative group and an additive group |
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| 06:00:53 | <mjrosenb> | @dj Maybe a -> [a] |
| 06:00:53 | <lambdabot> | Maybe you meant: djinn djinn-add djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do |
| 06:01:03 | <mjrosenb> | @djinn Maybe a -> [a] |
| 06:01:03 | <lambdabot> | Error: Undefined type [] |
| 06:01:26 | <mjrosenb> | this is probably just a library function that I should use hoogle for. |
| 06:02:28 | <mjrosenb> | maybeToList... what a name. |
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| 06:11:31 | <arahael> | mjrosenb: Heh, indeed. Makes sense though! |
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| 06:22:53 | <ubikium> | From typeclassopedia https://wiki.haskell.org/Typeclassopedia#Definition_5 , I read this line: sconcat reduces a nonempty list using (<>). For most instances, this is the same as foldr1 (<>), but it can be constant-time for idempotent semigroups. |
| 06:23:23 | <ubikium> | Is it wrong? The constant time optimization should be for `stimes` right? |
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| 06:39:17 | <mjrosenb> | I could imagine there being degenerate semigroups that sconcat is constant time for |
| 06:39:29 | <mjrosenb> | but I'm not too sure why you would use them for anything. |
| 06:39:57 | <mjrosenb> | and the definition of idempotent semigroup definitely fits with stimes being constant time |
| 06:41:04 | <mjrosenb> | since x*x == x implies stimes n x = x |
| 06:41:19 | <mjrosenb> | although what is stimes 0? |
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| 06:42:17 | <mjrosenb> | and it looks like the docs linked agree. |
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| 06:49:33 | <c_wraith> | degerate like First? |
| 06:49:45 | <c_wraith> | err. *degenerate |
| 06:50:07 | <c_wraith> | But the thing is... foldr1 (<>) over a list of First is also constant-time |
| 06:50:43 | <ubikium> | For n <= 0, it errors out: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.9.0.0/docs/src/Data.Semigroup.html#stimesIdempotent |
| 06:51:31 | <mjrosenb> | what is First? |
| 06:51:35 | <ubikium> | I'll go ahead and edit it. Btw, there are so many dead links in the typeclassopedia |
| 06:52:20 | <c_wraith> | mjrosenb: defined in the same module as Semigroup: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.0.0/docs/Data-Semigroup.html#t:First |
| 06:52:56 | <ubikium> | ok, I have to go through the mailing list for wiki account creation. Maybe someone with an account can help with this. |
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| 06:57:45 | <mjrosenb> | is it just sconcat [First 1, First 2, First 3,...] == 1 |
| 06:58:27 | <c_wraith> | yes, more or less. (There's a First on the output) |
| 06:59:12 | <ubikium> | but foldr1 (<>) on First (Maybe a) is not constant time? |
| 06:59:27 | <c_wraith> | On the First from Semigroup, it is |
| 06:59:34 | <c_wraith> | (Not on the First from Monoid) |
| 07:01:32 | <ubikium> | oh, I see |
| 07:03:17 | <mjrosenb> | why is the First from Monoid different? |
| 07:03:30 | <mjrosenb> | the only difference is that it has mempty, right? |
| 07:03:35 | <c_wraith> | it's a different type |
| 07:04:01 | <c_wraith> | Data.Semigroup.First a is a wrapper for a. Data.Monoid.First a is a wrapper for Maybe a |
| 07:04:11 | <mjrosenb> | ahh. that would do it. |
| 07:08:28 | <mjrosenb> | it can be constant if the first element is Just, but it can also take linear time if it has N Nothings at the head of the list, right? |
| 07:09:04 | <ubikium> | But the wiki line is still wrong? Not all idempotent semigroups have constant `sconcat`? |
| 07:09:41 | <ubikium> | They all have constant time `stimes`, so maybe it's a mistake. |
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| 12:07:30 | <deadmarshal> | How can i use read :: Int here? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/am0cThuf |
| 12:09:08 | <Rembane_> | > map read $ map fst $ map (span (isDigit)) $ words "72olle 103doo 100ya" |
| 12:09:09 | <lambdabot> | [*Exception: Prelude.read: no parse |
| 12:09:28 | <Rembane_> | > map fst $ map (span (isDigit)) $ words "72olle 103doo 100ya" |
| 12:09:29 | <lambdabot> | ["72","103","100"] |
| 12:09:41 | <Rembane_> | > map (read :: String -> Int) $ map fst $ map (span (isDigit)) $ words "72olle 103doo 100ya" |
| 12:09:42 | <lambdabot> | [72,103,100] |
| 12:10:38 | <Rembane_> | deadmarshal: Like that. :D |
| 12:10:40 | <gentauro> | maerwald: do you also get this warning message when you build for the M1? -> `'apple-a7' is not a recognized processor for this target (ignoring processor)` |
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| 12:10:54 | <Rembane_> | deadmarshal: Sometimes read needs some help to figure out which type is needed. |
| 12:11:08 | <maerwald> | gentauro: not sure... I only build on CI |
| 12:11:26 | <gentauro> | maerwald: roger that |
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| 12:58:15 | <hpc> | deadmarshal: you can also just use acme-php, which has instance Num String :D |
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| 13:23:56 | <gentauro> | hpc: `…-php`? That sounds horrible xD |
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| 13:32:53 | <hpc> | give it a look, but don't read the hackage docs because they contain spoilers :D |
| 13:34:27 | <geekosaur> | it says something about haskell that you can stretch it that far :) |
| 13:36:58 | <hpc> | i think it says more about haskell that it can only be stretched that far |
| 13:37:03 | <gentauro> | hpc: this? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/acme-php-0.0.5/src/docs.html |
| 13:37:06 | <gentauro> | is it a joke? |
| 13:37:49 | <geekosaur> | the whole acme- hierarchy is jokes |
| 13:38:19 | <gentauro> | geekosaur: that's a lot of jokes -> https://hackage.haskell.org/packages/#cat:Acme |
| 13:38:22 | <gentauro> | :o |
| 13:38:38 | <geekosaur> | yep |
| 13:39:02 | <hpc> | acme-schoenfinkel is my favorite, unless there have been any new ones lately |
| 13:40:01 | <gentauro> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/acme-io-0.1.0.1/docs/src/System-IO-Unsafe-Really-IMeanIt.html#reallyReallyAbsurdlyUnsafePerformIOShameOnYou |
| 13:40:04 | <gentauro> | WTF |
| 13:40:29 | <hpc> | okay, acme-mutable is my new favorite |
| 13:40:49 | <hpc> | er, acme-mutable-package |
| 13:43:28 | <gentauro> | hpc: now that is bad |
| 13:43:46 | <gentauro> | no wonder SPJ moved to Epic Games to play Fortnite all day |
| 13:44:10 | <hpc> | gentauro: acme-io is a reference to https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=reallyUnsafe |
| 13:44:34 | <hpc> | which manage to be even worse than unsafeCoerce |
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| 13:45:32 | <gentauro> | hpc: I <3 that it is `SAFE` inferred xD https://hackage.haskell.org/package/acme-io-0.1.0.1/docs/System-IO-Unsafe-Really-IMeanIt.html |
| 13:45:49 | <gentauro> | Haskell, more like HaskLEL, packages are a shit show right? |
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| 13:46:49 | <gentauro> | would love to see some `semantic / syntactic` versioning on the `AST` of the libraries. |
| 13:47:23 | <gentauro> | a bit like `elm`, but not being superficial (baed signatures) |
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| 14:12:29 | <maerwald> | cabal says 'rejecting: network-3.1.2.5, network-3.1.2.2 (constraint from user target requires ==3.1.2.1)', although 1. there's no upper bound in .cabal and 2. there's a 'network ==3.1.2.5' constraint in cabal.project.freeze |
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| 14:14:25 | <geekosaur> | usually means some dependency of your target needs 3.1.2.1. cabal's kinda bad at reporting those things, mostly because it's too busy trying to solve goals to try to track where all the constraints come from |
| 14:15:23 | <geekosaur> | cabal's trying to be a general constraint solver without having a real constraint solver at its disposal |
| 14:15:43 | <maerwald> | well, cabal.project contains 'allow-newer: *' |
| 14:16:07 | <maerwald> | so this makes no sense |
| 14:17:27 | <gentauro> | maerwald: I added that to my `stack.yaml` |
| 14:18:23 | <maerwald> | what even is "user target" |
| 14:19:08 | <maerwald> | so the solver is broken and allow-newer is broken too? |
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| 14:41:01 | <f-a> | t:cabal where are translations files (.po, .msg, etc.) going? in extra-source-files? |
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| 14:55:11 | <[exa]> | f-a: you might check reverse dependencies of i18n package, they should have the files managed somehow |
| 14:55:50 | <f-a> | sensible idea |
| 14:56:09 | <[exa]> | not that I'd know how to find the revdeps.. :D |
| 14:56:19 | <maerwald> | I have ~/.cabal/store/ghc-8.10.7/pandoc-2.10.1-48ded60d178790735dbd0b77b1694f289c1776562a1f42674a2e135256d36a1d/share/data/translations |
| 14:57:04 | <maerwald> | pandoc.cabal specifies 'data/translations/*.yaml' in data-files |
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| 14:57:20 | <maerwald> | so data-files go to share |
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| 14:57:27 | <geekosaur> | https://packdeps.haskellers.com/reverse |
| 14:57:32 | <f-a> | he put in in data files yeah |
| 14:57:50 | <[exa]> | geekosaur: oo nice |
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| 14:58:21 | <maerwald> | extra-source files don't get installed I think, that's just for sdist to include them |
| 14:59:50 | <unit73e> | I remember reading that recently |
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| 15:01:40 | <unit73e> | I read all that here: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.6/cabal-project.html |
| 15:01:46 | <unit73e> | because other-modules wasn't collaborating |
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| 15:13:53 | <fryguybob> | mc47: In case no one else answered you question, STM does not work across processes. |
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| 15:22:40 | <maerwald> | gentauro: https://gitlab.haskell.org/maerwald/stack/-/jobs/849239/artifacts/browse/.local/bin/ |
| 15:22:49 | <maerwald> | there's a stack M1 binary |
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| 15:35:05 | <gentauro> | maerwald: nice !!! |
| 15:35:51 | <gentauro> | maerwald: any chance that `fpco` will merge this in version `2.5.x`? |
| 15:36:01 | <gentauro> | :) |
| 15:36:27 | <maerwald> | merge what? |
| 15:37:07 | <gentauro> | maerwald: your changes into their branch -> https://gitlab.haskell.org/maerwald/stack/-/commit/948db274fce49c3fa9607dcfea7d446e9ffdf223 |
| 15:37:23 | <maerwald> | oh lol, probably not |
| 15:37:29 | <gentauro> | maerwald: xD |
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| 15:38:57 | <gentauro> | could you try to do a `stack install haskell-language-server` to see if it builds :) |
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| 15:40:43 | <timCF> | Hello! Let's say I do have `newtype A = A B`, and module does not export A constructor. Can I still implement somehow Coercible inside the module, to be able to use `coerce :: A -> B` outside of the module? |
| 15:42:08 | <hpc> | yes |
| 15:43:18 | <dmj`> | instances in Haskell are always exported and imported between modules |
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| 16:03:07 | <mc47> | fryguybob: thank you, I should've read the docs more closely |
| 16:03:40 | <mc47> | one of the few times where a haskell program complies but doesn't do what you think it does |
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| 16:10:01 | <geekosaur> | uh, wait. Coercible is not implementable, it's generated by the typechecker. and one of the rules for generation is the ocnstructor must be in scope |
| 16:10:50 | <geekosaur> | I believe yoou will get an error if you write instance Coercible A where |
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| 16:15:04 | <lyxia> | Yeah, Coercible is not a regular class, it's its own construct with special semantics. |
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| 16:18:15 | <timCF> | I guess than I just have to use exported function-accessor instead of coerce |
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| 17:36:28 | <awpr> | timCF: do you want _only_ `A -> B` and not the other direction, e.g. because `A` has extra invariants? |
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| 17:48:38 | <mark___> | Is ghc-vis maintained? When I try simple stuff like view ("hello" :: String) "hello" the repl dies and it says "double free or corruption (fasttop)" |
| 17:50:16 | <Inst> | i'm just |
| 17:50:23 | <Inst> | going to admit i'm embarrassed |
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| 17:50:49 | <Inst> | i can't get foreign import capi "toyfunction" to work |
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| 17:54:02 | <Guest2727> | When using the Continuation monad is there ever a reason to replace the 'r' in 'Cont r a' with a specific type? |
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| 17:54:43 | <int-e> | :t runCont |
| 17:54:44 | <lambdabot> | Cont r a -> (a -> r) -> r |
| 17:56:48 | <int-e> | Not usually, no. Though it is worth noting that newtype ContT r m a = ContT {runContT :: (a -> m r) -> m r} is based on replacing `r` by the more specific `m r`. |
| 17:57:14 | <int-e> | and that allows you access to effects from m |
| 17:58:07 | <hpc> | sometimes if you're doing something domain-specific you might want a specific r |
| 17:58:40 | <hpc> | but i don't think i could come up with an example |
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| 17:59:27 | <Guest2727> | OK, thanks for the answers |
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| 18:00:32 | <thblt> | Google is failing me: is there an easy way, with cabal or stack, to generate complete documentation for a project's dependencies? To have them in one place, browsable offline? |
| 18:03:34 | <sm> | stack haddock --open |
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| 18:09:59 | <Inst> | i've been at it for like 24 hours, and i give up |
| 18:10:27 | <monochrom> | I use Cont for shift/reset http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml so r gets monomorphized all the time. |
| 18:10:35 | <Inst> | if someone would like to help me get a native file dialog written in C FFI-ed into Haskell |
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| 18:10:44 | <monochrom> | I no longer use callCC in fact. |
| 18:10:45 | <Inst> | please query me, if you want money, I can pay for it |
| 18:10:54 | <thblt> | sm: indeed, thanks. cabal was unhappy with my executable-only package, stack is less picky. |
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| 18:11:58 | <kronicmage> | hey folks, I've implemented a pretty naive implementation of extended euclidean algorithm using hylo from recursion-schemes here: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/fc3bcFyu |
| 18:12:01 | <Guest2727> | monochrom: interesting, I'll check out that page |
| 18:12:09 | <kronicmage> | my question is: is there a better way to do this, without needing the extra data type? |
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| 18:35:01 | <dolio> | kronicmage: You could just define EuclideanStructureF, since that's all you use, right? And then that can technically be assembled out of other functors, although it might not be a lot nicer. |
| 18:36:11 | <dolio> | The value case is `Const Natural` and the sum case is `(,,) Natural Natural` |
| 18:36:38 | <dolio> | So you just need a + on functors. |
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| 18:37:26 | <awpr> | GHC.Generics.:+: |
| 18:37:45 | <awpr> | or Data.Functor.Sum.Sum |
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| 19:30:15 | <Inst> | hmmm |
| 19:30:24 | <Inst> | I finally got CApiFFI to work |
| 19:30:30 | <Inst> | in a limited, bugged form with a toy program |
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| 19:31:02 | <Inst> | basically, if I run it in GHCi, it works, in GHC, it just hangs, in prat because the toy program has no main |
| 19:31:10 | <Inst> | I can break out, it executes the prompts (but doesn't accept input) |
| 19:32:11 | <geekosaur> | can you show us the bugged program? also if it has no main then ghc should refuse to link it |
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| 19:32:44 | <geekosaur> | and may refuse to compile it if it finds a module Main (or a module with no header) that doesn't have `main` defined in it |
| 19:33:44 | <Inst> | check haskell beginner geekosaur |
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| 20:05:26 | <maerwald> | I'm playing with hsseccomp and I wish there was a high-level library |
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| 20:14:54 | <maerwald> | also https://lwn.net/Articles/799557/ meh |
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| 20:49:22 | <maerwald> | and seccomp-notify looks complicated |
| 20:49:37 | <maerwald> | https://brauner.github.io/2020/07/23/seccomp-notify.html |
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| 21:43:32 | <maerwald> | gentauro: https://gitlab.haskell.org/maerwald/stack/-/jobs/849559/artifacts/browse/.local/bin/ here's an M1 HLS binary |
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| 22:10:13 | <hololeap> | what's a good way to implement a binary tree with a static shape and O(1) lookups and updates, given a "path" e.g. [GoLeft, GoRight, GoLeft, ...] |
| 22:10:41 | <hololeap> | well, the shape is determined at runtime but doesn't change after that |
| 22:11:42 | <geekosaur> | can that even be O(1)? wouldn't it still be O(log N) even given a path to walk instead of needing to search? |
| 22:12:46 | <hololeap> | well, if the shape is known then you could give each node a unique key and then put it all into a vector. that was one option I was exploring |
| 22:15:07 | <hololeap> | another thing I considered was to wrap each node in a TVar and then have a separate lookup table via a (Map Path (TVar (Node a)) or something |
| 22:17:48 | <hololeap> | what I am aiming for is making the thing a Representable with O(1) lookups/updates so I can plug it into Control.Comonad.Representable.Store |
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| 22:18:29 | <hololeap> | it's for this programming challenge: https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/the-tree-of-life |
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| 22:18:46 | <geekosaur> | then you're just hiding the big-O in the Map, I think |
| 22:19:19 | <geekosaur> | this all sounds to me like trying to be too clever without actually solving the big-O problem |
| 22:19:24 | <hpc> | yeah, you can only get O(1) with a fixed-size data structure |
| 22:19:42 | <hpc> | like particular types of hash table, or arrays |
| 22:22:26 | <hololeap> | I've implemented the standard GoL with vector-sized and Representable. this is a bit different because of the binary-tree shape of the thing, and also hackerrank doesn't have a ton of libraries available so things like finite-typelits are out |
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| 22:26:15 | <hololeap> | but, yeah I could be painting myself into a corner here with my assumptions about how it needs to be done |
| 22:28:02 | <hololeap> | since the whole tree has to be traversed to updated the alive/dead status of each cell, perhaps just a regular tree traversal is good enough |
| 22:29:10 | <hpc> | yeah, log factors are smaller than you probably are thinking they are |
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| 22:29:52 | <hololeap> | I'm just a bit worried about the corner cases when they have huge trees and 1000 life cycles |
| 22:30:29 | <hpc> | they would have to be truly huge |
| 22:30:35 | <Guest278> | log scales really well with large numbers |
| 22:30:42 | <hpc> | if you have a tree of 1000 noddes that takes 1 second |
| 22:30:48 | <hpc> | to make it take 2 seconds needs 10000 nodes |
| 22:30:53 | <hpc> | 3 seconds, 100000 nodes |
| 22:30:56 | <hololeap> | that's true |
| 22:31:15 | <hpc> | (plus or minus memory bandwidth, cpu cache, etc) |
| 22:31:18 | <Guest278> | it's why stuff like git-bisect can cut through literally thousands of commits so easily |
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| 22:34:45 | <Guest278> | plus looking at the problem it's a CA update? in which case you're traversing the whole tree anyway and you'd ideally have every neighbor available |
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| 22:35:03 | <EvanR> | exponential growth, reach any level soon. log growth take as long as you need, you won't run out of levels |
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| 22:38:47 | <hpc> | there's a joke about those sorts of big-Os |
| 22:39:02 | <hpc> | there's an algorithm with a big-O of the inverse ackermann function, and people say it's O(4) |
| 22:39:24 | <hpc> | because there's no way you're ever getting an input big enough to beyond that |
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| 22:40:41 | <dolio> | There's also log*, which is like 5 or 6. |
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| 22:54:09 | <hololeap> | when is it a good idea to properly fill out the other-extensions field in a .cabal file? |
| 22:54:52 | <hpc> | probably never? i like seeing them at the top of every source file so i know what i am getting into |
| 22:55:23 | <hpc> | imagine if cabal files had an other-imports field |
| 22:55:34 | <geekosaur> | other-extensions is just documentation. it may be helpful to review what extensions you're using anywhere, but I'm not sure that's a serious use case |
| 22:55:49 | <hololeap> | ok |
| 22:56:18 | <geekosaur> | it might be helpful for hackage to more easily figure out compiler version compatibility, but I'm not sure it uses it for that |
| 22:56:34 | <hpc> | oh, i was thinking default-extensions |
| 22:56:56 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I figured |
| 22:56:58 | <hololeap> | geekosaur: that's what I thought it might be for, but that isn't really relevant to my use-case ATM |
| 22:57:25 | <hpc> | apparently other-extensions is useful though |
| 22:58:00 | <hpc> | the docs say cabal knows what ghc versions can use what extensions |
| 22:58:25 | <zzz> | what's a good example of the tardis monad usefulness? |
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| 23:02:46 | <hololeap> | is this functional dependency redundant here? class Sing k (t :: k) | k -> t |
| 23:03:36 | <dolio> | Doesn't seem like it. |
| 23:03:42 | <geekosaur> | no, because (t :: k) does not say that t is fully specified by k |
| 23:03:52 | <hpc> | instance Sing Int 0; instance Sing Int 1; ... |
| 23:04:07 | <hpc> | t -> k is probably redundant though |
| 23:05:03 | <hololeap> | ok, thanks |
| 23:06:25 | <hpc> | hmm, or maybe it's not redundant? |
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| 23:06:44 | <hpc> | instance Sing (Maybe Int) Nothing; instance Sing (Maybe Bool) Nothing; ... |
| 23:07:09 | <hololeap> | maybe I was wanting t -> k |
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| 23:09:29 | <hololeap> | instance KnownNat t => Sing Nat t where type instance (SingVal t) = Natural |
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| 23:10:10 | <hololeap> | the reason for including the kind is to avoid instances with the same head |
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| 23:15:07 | <jackdk> | zzz: https://chrisdone.com/posts/twitter-problem-loeb/ , maybe? |
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| 23:17:47 | <awpr> | if the class is poly-kinded, the kind is part of the instance head regardless of whether it's a visible parameter |
| 23:18:26 | <awpr> | see https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.0.0/docs/Data-Type-Ord.html#t:Compare which has instances dispatched on the kind |
| 23:20:57 | <zzz> | jackdk: thanks! |
| 23:21:39 | <geekosaur> | of course cdone observes at the bottom of the page that he gave up on waiting for the tardis monad version to finish |
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| 23:32:14 | <Nolrai2> | So its been a couple years, what are the pros+cons of using tasty vs. hspec? |
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| 23:37:03 | <Axman6> | you can use hspec from tasty no? |
| 23:37:22 | <Axman6> | tasts brings together a bunch of other test frameworks but isn't really a test framework itself |
| 23:38:05 | <Nolrai2> | Ah. |
| 23:38:39 | <Axman6> | tasty* |
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| 23:42:46 | <AWizzArd> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fin why can the constructor of Z just use ('S n) while the S constructor must use 'Nat.S ? |
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| 23:43:47 | <Axman6> | it's just docs, so probably a typo |
| 23:43:47 | <AWizzArd> | Why not both times 'S or 'Nat.S ? |
| 23:44:17 | <AWizzArd> | Axman6: good idea – https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fin-0.2/docs/src/Data.Fin.html#Fin |
| 23:45:12 | <hpc> | i am more curious why Z :: Fin ('S n) and not Z :: Fin n |
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| 23:45:37 | <Axman6> | because it needs to nor be Z :: Fin 'Z |
| 23:45:46 | <Axman6> | not* |
| 23:45:50 | <hpc> | yeah, just realized |
| 23:45:56 | <hpc> | it's the set of 0 elements |
| 23:46:17 | <hpc> | {0} is the set of 1 element |
| 23:47:17 | <Axman6> | not sure I follow... but I look at is as an index into a sized vector that can never point to somewhere outside the vector |
| 23:48:12 | <hpc> | ah, i was looking at it as Fin n = the first n natural numbers |
| 23:48:13 | <EvanR> | Fin 0 has no inhabitants |
| 23:48:13 | <Axman6> | so it's impossible to index into a zero sized vector; index :: Vec n a -> Fin n -> a means we can never pass in Nil to index |
| 23:49:33 | <Axman6> | there are three values of type Fin 3 that correspond to the three S's |
| 23:49:34 | <EvanR> | Fin 4 is supposed to be 0 through 3 |
| 23:49:56 | <Axman6> | so I guess Fin n is numbers mod n... I hadn't thought about it that way before |
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| 23:51:14 | <hpc> | or thinking of it as a set of a given size - Fin 0 = {}, Fin 1 = {0}, Fin 2 = {0, 1}, etc |
| 23:51:42 | <hpc> | (but with the actual "what the set contains" information removed) |
| 23:51:45 | <EvanR> | Z : Fin (S n) is another way of saying zero is not the successor of any number |
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| 23:52:58 | <EvanR> | er, Z isn't a fin number with index zero, nvm |
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| 23:53:43 | <hpc> | there's other stuff where the base case is fully polymorphic, that's probably how i got mixed up |
| 23:53:46 | <awpr> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fin-int uses all three of "indices of a vector of length n", "finite set of known cardinality", and "naturals less than n" |
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| 23:54:20 | <awpr> | IMO the "integers mod n" interpretation would lead to a different set of arithmetic operators, and probably also adding a Num instance |
| 23:54:37 | <hpc> | maybe it should have one :D |
| 23:54:41 | <EvanR> | indeed |
| 23:54:41 | <awpr> | ..., so it should be a different type |
| 23:54:47 | <awpr> | shouldn't have one. |
| 23:55:02 | <awpr> | all of its methods would be partial |
| 23:55:03 | <EvanR> | it's valid to do modular arithmetic on Fin numbers |
| 23:55:25 | <hpc> | by that reasoning, Word shouldn't have a Num instance |
| 23:55:31 | <awpr> | it is valid, but it's bug-prone to have that as the Num instance of a type that isn't primarily meant to be used that way |
| 23:55:34 | <hpc> | because it's just the naturals mod 2**64 |
| 23:55:42 | <EvanR> | oh Num... right |
| 23:55:51 | <EvanR> | Num is just invalid in general xD |
| 23:55:52 | <awpr> | "naturals mod n" should have a Num instance |
| 23:56:11 | <awpr> | but "naturals mod n" should be a different type from "indices of a vector of length n" |
| 23:56:32 | <hpc> | i don't see the difference |
| 23:56:34 | <EvanR> | I'm not sure this is warranted |
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| 23:56:56 | <EvanR> | extra steps to mod by whatever when doing crazy vector buffer tricks, for no reason |
| 23:57:18 | <awpr> | if I'm doing index arithmetic, I definitely don't want to have `mod` implicitly happening on indices if I write `+` |
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| 23:58:03 | <EvanR> | what way would you rather have addition work for Fin |
| 23:58:16 | <awpr> | in a way that's visible and intentional at the call site |
| 23:58:27 | <monochrom> | If you do mod n, you get a circular buffer. But then you also get to argue that circular buffer should have a different type from vector. |
| 23:58:36 | <EvanR> | wait answer the question lol |
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| 23:58:54 | <awpr> | direct answer is that there should be no undistinguished `+` for indices |
| 23:58:54 | <EvanR> | should it crash or what |
| 23:59:01 | <EvanR> | so no addition |
| 23:59:04 | <hpc> | you could argue "circular buffer" is just a set of function definitions that use vectors |
| 23:59:50 | <EvanR> | also, vectors can be large enough that I would like Fin of a big index be implemented by Word |
| 23:59:53 | <awpr> | no addition unless it specifies explicitly what should happen with out-of-range results |
| 23:59:55 | <hpc> | for example, we have many definitions of Queue, but few of Stack |
All times are in UTC on 2021-11-07.