Logs on 2021-11-11 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:10:58 | <Axman6> | yin: also worth keeping in mind that these types might have different laziness properties |
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| 00:12:39 | <yin> | implicitly? |
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| 00:14:57 | <Axman6> | actually the one above would be the same, but the first example has one more level of indirection so there are more places for bottoms - you can have L a undefined, L a (Just undefined) vs N a undefined |
| 00:17:09 | <yin> | ah right |
| 00:18:02 | <yin> | i make myself forget that undefined exists |
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| 00:21:19 | <yin> | i see, you're right |
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| 00:34:36 | <Axman6> | Is it possible in GHC to define a data type which contains a variable sized array directly inside the same object? like the classic C struct { int type; int len; uint8_t data[] }? |
| 00:35:33 | <Axman6> | or are all primitive array types always accessed through indirection to another object? (I feel like edwardk has done something in this area before and I should go check his github) |
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| 00:38:47 | <monochrom> | I have a feeling that each primitive array type is already a {int len; foo data[]} struct itself. |
| 00:39:04 | <Axman6> | right, I guess I'm asking if that can be unpacked into your own types |
| 00:40:14 | <Axman6> | (https://github.com/ekmett/structs is what i was thinking about above) |
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| 00:45:48 | <monochrom> | "The Template Haskell generates tupleLeft, tupleRight :: Field (TupleInts a) a, which can be used to get and set fields with getField, setField" So it is lens but for C structs? Heh. |
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| 00:54:57 | <Axman6> | well, C struct like things anyway, not sure there's any mapping between C data types and Haskell ones |
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| 00:57:06 | <geekosaur> | not a reliable one, and only for some types |
| 00:57:14 | <geekosaur> | String is hopeless, for example |
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| 02:18:28 | <jkaye> | Is MonadError/ExceptT a good general way to think about error/exception handling within an application? What are alternatives/are there better ways to handle errors in general? Sorry I realize this is a very vague question, I'm asking in the abstract because I'm trying to decide what error handling strategy I should use for a new application that I'm writing |
| 02:19:18 | <jkaye> | To expound a bit, I imagine that I will want two "levels" of errors, one that represents logic/usage issues and another that represents "external" concerns e.g. database unavailable |
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| 02:23:51 | <SevenAster> | I'm no expert on Monads by any means. Exceptions in C are *typically* done by returning an enum while the actual results are given by modifying the value of some reference |
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| 02:24:39 | <SevenAster> | C++/C#/python use throws and try catches |
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| 02:25:48 | <SevenAster> | Golang returns a tuple with the result and an error object or nill |
| 02:25:58 | <Axman6> | jkaye: I tend to start out with ExceptT unless I have a good reason not to. How doou want to handle those two classes of errors differently? |
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| 02:26:43 | <Axman6> | golang error handling is about as bad as I could imagine, looking at go code and seeing more than 50% of all code is error handling makes me want to cry |
| 02:27:05 | <Axman6> | "Abstraction? What's that?" |
| 02:27:47 | <jkaye> | Axman6, good question. It's nuanced. My main goal is to prevent the "real world" from leaking into my (pure, abstract) domain model. So really, I'd like to somehow be able to allow the domain to operate in terms of the "pure" types of possible failures (e.g. requesting a key that's not present in a cache) but not the others |
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| 02:28:26 | <jkaye> | I can show a silly example |
| 02:29:53 | <jkaye> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/kMMLFFtm |
| 02:30:48 | <jkaye> | So using that, I'm imagining that there will be multiple different instances of MonadProperty - one for e.g. testing, one for local operations within the same binary, and one for remote operations across network boundaries |
| 02:31:47 | <jkaye> | Ideally the local operations would be able to "know" it's local and not have to worry about the "remote" failure possibilities. I don't really need it to be that advanced, but I figured I'd ask now while I'm still in the early stages of this things |
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| 02:35:22 | <Axman6> | One way to experiment with this is to use something like this: data Actions m = Actions { getProperty :: PropertyName -> m Property; updateProperty :: PropertyName -> Property -> m () }; data App m a = ReaderT (Actions m) m a. This is a bit more flexible than only allowing one instance per monad you use. Then you can decide how you want to do errors in your own choice of m. |
| 02:36:49 | <Axman6> | then you can defice getProp pname = do {f <- gets getProperty: f pname }; updateProp pname p = do { f <- gets updateProperty; f pname p } |
| 02:36:54 | <Axman6> | define* |
| 02:39:11 | <jkaye> | That is interesting |
| 02:39:32 | <jkaye> | Basically say that the "context" in which the operation is running provides the monadic context |
| 02:39:44 | <Axman6> | IMO, I would start by just explicitly using ExceptT, and having an error type which is a sumtype of the types of errors you want to have |
| 02:39:52 | <jkaye> | I like the idea, will think about that more. Thank you |
| 02:39:59 | <jkaye> | And yeah, I probably will do that |
| 02:40:07 | <jkaye> | Don't want to overcomplicate it if I don't have to |
| 02:40:10 | <Axman6> | there's some fun stuff you can do with classy prisms if you want to restrict the types of errors that are visible to different parts of the code |
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| 02:40:17 | <jkaye> | Just want to be aware of the alternatives available to me |
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| 02:40:46 | <jkaye> | Yeah, I have played with polysemy capabilities and such, which are interesting to me, but that's another place where I'm going to leave it until I need it |
| 02:41:08 | <Axman6> | reaching for type classes the way you are is a pretty common thing for people who have come from an OO background to do, and it's not necessarily the best approach |
| 02:41:44 | <Axman6> | polysemy is probably a very good way to deal with this, you can actually have two different error capabilities |
| 02:41:44 | <jkaye> | Right, the type class is not the important part for me, but rather the ability to swap behavior/instances |
| 02:42:08 | <jkaye> | I have had success with this approach in the past, but that doesn't make it the best way :) |
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| 02:42:46 | <Axman6> | defining different interpreters for the different error types would be a pretty nice way to do what you want I think |
| 02:43:28 | <Axman6> | I would love other people's input inon this, I've never really found an approach I enjoyed very much |
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| 02:44:46 | <jkaye> | One other question actually, given the idea that you posted above, how would you then represent that in renderFile? Would you just pass the Actions into the function there? That gets interesting because there are going to be many of these types of contexts, though I guess it would be easy enough to have Actions be a sum that aggregates the individual contexts so that they can then be passed independently |
| 02:45:01 | <jkaye> | Which does begin to sound suspiciously close to what polysemy provides I suppose.. |
| 02:45:54 | <Axman6> | I'm not sure I understand the question |
| 02:46:05 | <Axman6> | but yes, polysemy, try that :P |
| 02:46:35 | <jkaye> | Like, Actions wouldn't be a flat record. There are many different "types" of Actions that different parts of the system would require, so I wouldn't want to send all of the actions all over the place |
| 02:46:47 | <jkaye> | data Actions = PropertyActions | FileActions | ... |
| 02:47:06 | <jkaye> | Sorry it should be a product, not sum |
| 02:47:32 | <jkaye> | It would contain an instance of each "type" of action so that it could provide them independently where they are required |
| 02:47:41 | <jkaye> | I'm just rambling now. Thanks for the input, it was very helpful |
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| 03:04:30 | <jkaye> | Axman6, if you're still around, I know there's something dumb that I |
| 03:04:43 | <jkaye> | I'm not thinking about properly here. |
| 03:05:05 | <jkaye> | Say that I wanted to then create a PropertyActions using a State (M.Map ...) under the hood for testing purposes |
| 03:05:47 | <jkaye> | That's easy enough by creating the record of functions, but how would I then also "seed" the actions with the underlying data without repeatedly calling update on it? |
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| 03:15:19 | <Axman6> | with your call to runState |
| 03:15:58 | <Axman6> | you'd at some point have funFoo . flip runStateT myInitialState . flip runReaderT actionsUsingState |
| 03:16:40 | <jkaye> | Like I said, something dumb I'm not thinking about properly :) thanks! |
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| 03:24:09 | <jkaye> | Just like that, we're passing: evalState resolution M.empty `shouldBe` ResolvedFile TextContent "This file should render exactly as expected" |
| 03:24:24 | <jkaye> | Gonna think more about whether polysemy makes sense, but this is a great start |
| 03:24:26 | <jkaye> | Thanks again |
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| 05:53:54 | <kritzefitz> | sclv: it is. I hope I'll get around to leave a comment there today. |
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| 09:39:07 | <jollygood2> | hi. does anyone have experience with inline-c? it seems very tempting to use it over regular haskell ffi, when just having to call a couple of C functions from a C library, rather than attempting to make complete haskell bindings |
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| 09:41:30 | <kritzefitz> | What do you mean by “complete haskell bindings”? If you just want to call a few C function you can just import those and call them. I'm not sure how much easier inline-c could make it. |
| 09:42:13 | <kritzefitz> | (but then again, I never used inline-c. Maybe it's easier on type conversions?) |
| 09:42:21 | <jollygood2> | kritzefitz, you can write C code directly in haskell source. no need to bind functions, or types, you just write C. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c |
| 09:44:14 | <kritzefitz> | From first glance it does look like you need type conversions, because inline-c still returns foreign types. |
| 09:44:33 | <kritzefitz> | or you just work with the foreign types directly, but you can also do that using regular FFI. |
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| 09:45:21 | <jollygood2> | I tried it just now, and unless I'm wrong there is a major drawback, you can't run this code in ghci |
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| 09:51:39 | <jollygood2> | no it seems that you can. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c-0.9.1.5#ghci |
| 09:51:55 | <dminuoso> | I wouldn't want to write C code directly in haskell. |
| 09:52:04 | <dminuoso> | You can simply call C functions, and write low level Haskell code. |
| 09:52:32 | <jollygood2> | kritzefitz, you can do that using regular FFI as well, but if I have to call 8 C functions, but 7 of them are just used to feed the result to other C functions, and I am only interested in the result of the 8th function call, I only have to declare one type, and just do everything else in C |
| 09:53:45 | <kritzefitz> | I guess in that case I would just write a small C file with your wrapper function and only import that into haskell. |
| 09:53:47 | <jollygood2> | a lot less work than having to declare all 8 functions, and C structs used by those functions |
| 09:54:27 | <kritzefitz> | I'm not sure how well that works with GHCi. But I guess as long as you start ghci via cabal or stack it should work fine. |
| 09:54:45 | <jollygood2> | kritzefitz, yeah that works too. but with the disadvantage that you have one additional step, recompiling C code |
| 09:55:19 | <kritzefitz> | Cabal can do that for you. |
| 09:55:44 | <jollygood2> | do you have to restart ghci when you recompile? |
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| 09:56:48 | <kritzefitz> | Not sure, but I think so. |
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| 10:00:49 | <jollygood2> | I believeyou don't with inlin-c, but I can't get their math example to work at all, even after adding suggested ghci options. During interactive linking, GHCi couldn't find the following symbol: inline_c_Main_0_2f88ee80765ab54834856cc58acd770f9760d5e4 |
| 10:01:25 | <jollygood2> | googling that error isn't helping |
| 10:03:18 | <kritzefitz> | Personally I wouldn't care about restarting GHCi enough to use something as complicaterd as inline-c to avoid it, but of course YMMV. |
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| 10:05:03 | <jollygood2> | it isn't working when compiling either, same error |
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| 10:06:14 | <jollygood2> | perhaps issue on windows only? https://github.com/fpco/inline-c/issues/50 |
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| 12:57:38 | <Profpatsch> | Looks to me like aeson ToJSON instances define their encoding at deriving-time |
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| 12:57:59 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Nope. |
| 12:58:00 | <Profpatsch> | so if I want a different sum-representation e.g. for Either, I’d have to call gToEncoding myself as a fucniton |
| 12:58:04 | <dminuoso> | There is no such thing as "deriving time" |
| 12:58:08 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: huh, then I read it incorrectly |
| 12:58:23 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Well its *sort* of correct. |
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| 12:58:42 | <dminuoso> | Also note, aeson provides TH helpers which you should probably use if you care about performance |
| 12:58:47 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: But the options are passed by the generic instance in the ToJSON function no? |
| 12:58:58 | <dminuoso> | Relying on GHC simplifier to get rid of the generics code is not a good idea |
| 12:59:00 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: That’s up to benchmarking |
| 12:59:15 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Honestly if you know this to be a potential hotspot, I wouldnt bother |
| 12:59:35 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: but basically what I’m asking is has e.g. `ToJSON (Either e a)` the SumEncoding baked in? |
| 12:59:39 | <dminuoso> | The simplifier is a massively complex beast where slight changes (say a GHC update, or even your own code changes) could alter how much GHC can get rid of it. |
| 12:59:43 | <Profpatsch> | From what I has it does |
| 13:00:17 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: there is really no performance requirement here |
| 13:00:31 | <Profpatsch> | (also: compile time or run time performance? |
| 13:00:36 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.0.1.0/docs/src/Data.Aeson.Types.ToJSON.html#line-734 |
| 13:00:39 | <dminuoso> | Both. |
| 13:01:06 | <dminuoso> | Generics will cost a lot of extra memory and CPU in the simplifier, and if it cant get rid of the generics representation you will suffer from very poor runtime performance |
| 13:01:30 | <dminuoso> | Thing is, aeson comes with TH helpers which are roughly as easy to use, but give predictable and controllable performance |
| 13:01:47 | <Profpatsch> | I don’t like aeson very much |
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| 13:02:15 | <Profpatsch> | The library documentation is badly structured and anytime I want to do something non-trivial I have to spend 30 minutes swapping it into my head again |
| 13:02:38 | <dminuoso> | It's one of those libraries that in reality is hard to avoid |
| 13:02:52 | <dminuoso> | There's also waargonaut but oh well |
| 13:03:01 | <dminuoso> | At least aeson does a lot of things right |
| 13:03:20 | <dminuoso> | Like, it lets you actually work with JSON that has duplicate keys, and it gives you access to Numericals in the only proper form |
| 13:03:44 | <dminuoso> | That is, Aeson simply gives you a Scientific and lets you interpret it, since JSON has no semantics on numbers |
| 13:04:10 | <dminuoso> | The interface is quirky at times, and its very typeclassy, but with some basic skill you can even avoid that |
| 13:04:37 | <Profpatsch> | This tells me that SumEncoding is baked in: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.0.1.0/docs/src/Data.Aeson.Types.ToJSON.html#toJSON |
| 13:04:39 | <dminuoso> | Not too many other JSON libraries will actually let you work with {"f":1, "f":2} |
| 13:05:00 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: I don’t think that’s useful in many cases, but that’s because json is underspecified |
| 13:05:20 | <dminuoso> | Its not useful until you need it. |
| 13:05:29 | <dminuoso> | I like libraries that are morally wrong and take shortcuts |
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| 13:05:36 | <dminuoso> | * dont like |
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| 13:06:17 | <Profpatsch> | I like libraries that provide towers of abstraction and simplification with opt-out mechanisms, but aeson just has it all smushed together in one unstructured mess |
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| 13:06:49 | <Profpatsch> | e.g. I think ToJSON and FromJSON should be separated out into a different package, building on a package that just provides primitive composable parsers and encoders |
| 13:07:04 | <Profpatsch> | I get that it’s a case of grown |
| 13:07:09 | <Profpatsch> | *organic growth |
| 13:07:24 | <dminuoso> | Why should they be separated? |
| 13:07:38 | <dminuoso> | And aeson does give you composable parsers and utilities |
| 13:08:04 | <dminuoso> | withObject, (.:) and plenty other things lets you simply write code without generics. |
| 13:08:12 | <dminuoso> | Nothing ever forces or nudges you to using generics |
| 13:08:33 | <dminuoso> | Heck, you can even avoid typeclasses themselves, that bit is just not well documented |
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| 13:09:41 | <Profpatsch> | It’s not a very good user experience |
| 13:09:54 | <Profpatsch> | But I’m not here to argue about aeson tbh |
| 13:10:12 | <Profpatsch> | I just wanted to know whether the instances embod the SumEncoding |
| 13:10:20 | <dminuoso> | Which sumencoding? |
| 13:10:30 | <Profpatsch> | The one from aeson |
| 13:10:31 | <dminuoso> | There's 4 different ones. |
| 13:10:35 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.0.1.0/docs/Data-Aeson.html#t:SumEncoding |
| 13:10:52 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Also, you can simply control it yourself |
| 13:11:04 | <Profpatsch> | how? |
| 13:11:17 | <dminuoso> | Either by writing out the generic instance manually |
| 13:11:21 | <dminuoso> | Or my personal favourite by using https://hackage.haskell.org/package/deriving-aeson |
| 13:11:28 | <Profpatsch> | Can I take a (Either Char Int) and make it use e.g. UntaggedValue instead of ObjectWithSingleField? |
| 13:11:38 | <dminuoso> | It's a minimalistic library that adds a touch of type helpers to do this inside the deriving clause |
| 13:11:48 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Yes. |
| 13:12:04 | <maerwald> | Profpatsch: maybe you like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/waargonaut |
| 13:12:33 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: Every time I wanted to use waargonaut I had a stopper, since I was relying heavily on aeson instances already. :( |
| 13:12:40 | <dminuoso> | Third party libraries etc |
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| 13:12:52 | <maerwald> | I tried it only once and found the API so confusing that I stopped |
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| 13:13:18 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: Ah, it uses a type-level list wrapper |
| 13:13:29 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Yeah, but you can also do it in the value level by writing out the instance |
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| 13:13:32 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: I assume you can use coerce as well? |
| 13:13:39 | <dminuoso> | Only downside is that you dont have guaranteed coherence between toJSON and toEncoding |
| 13:13:42 | <Profpatsch> | For deriving-aeson that is |
| 13:13:47 | <dminuoso> | What do you mean by coerce? |
| 13:14:01 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Only problem is that you cant dictate the behavior transitively in generics. |
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| 13:14:14 | <dminuoso> | That is, you cant say "use this for all transitive sums" |
| 13:14:55 | <dminuoso> | Unless you turn it into a SOP representation |
| 13:14:58 | <dminuoso> | Then you can |
| 13:15:08 | <dminuoso> | If that's an option for you |
| 13:15:20 | <dminuoso> | (because with SOP you dont have transitively sums anymore, they're at the outside) |
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| 13:15:32 | <Profpatsch> | So e.g. (coerce (Left Map.singleton ("foo", 'c'))) :: Either () (CustomJson '[CamelToSnake] (Map Text Char)) |
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| 13:16:11 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, did you mix up Left and Right? |
| 13:16:12 | <Profpatsch> | s/Left Map/Left $ Map/ |
| 13:16:15 | <Profpatsch> | Probably |
| 13:16:18 | <Profpatsch> | yeah righ |
| 13:16:20 | <Profpatsch> | Right |
| 13:16:26 | <Profpatsch> | But I guess that would work? |
| 13:16:29 | <dminuoso> | Sure |
| 13:16:39 | <Profpatsch> | That’s pretty cool hm |
| 13:16:50 | <Profpatsch> | We seem to be using it already |
| 13:16:52 | <dminuoso> | Id probably rather write some little helper |
| 13:17:10 | <Profpatsch> | Problem is that it doesn’t work recursively, yes |
| 13:17:31 | <dminuoso> | something like `encodeVia :: (ToJSON b, Coercible a b) => Proxy b -> a -> Value` |
| 13:17:36 | <Profpatsch> | Ah, that’s why genericSOP |
| 13:17:40 | <dminuoso> | Yup |
| 13:17:45 | <Profpatsch> | but that’s a really high conceptual overhead |
| 13:18:00 | <dminuoso> | Me personally, Id just stop worrying about encoding things into aeson |
| 13:18:03 | <dminuoso> | and just write out the instances |
| 13:18:13 | <dminuoso> | It's not much effort if you do it two or three times |
| 13:18:13 | <Profpatsch> | tbh I tend towards having a small library that provides composable aeson parser functions |
| 13:18:33 | <Profpatsch> | And the thing calling the encoder will inject the options |
| 13:18:46 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Alternatively, you can simply write generics code yourself. |
| 13:18:49 | <dminuoso> | It's not hard |
| 13:19:04 | <dminuoso> | And then parametrize your generic encoder with some sum encoder |
| 13:19:05 | <DemiMarieObenour> | Anyone else had fun breaking GHC? |
| 13:19:12 | <Profpatsch> | newtype Enc a = Enc (Options -> a -> Encoding) |
| 13:19:25 | <Profpatsch> | And then implement Contravariant, Divisible etc |
| 13:19:35 | <geekosaur> | breaking ghc isn't so hard given unsafeCoerce :þ |
| 13:20:16 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Every time I just tried to be tricky, I realized I was just catering to a mechanism that wasnt meant for specialization |
| 13:20:18 | <dminuoso> | THat is |
| 13:20:18 | <Profpatsch> | dminuoso: I will frame “you can simply write generics code myself” and hang it over my house altar :P |
| 13:20:35 | <dminuoso> | This generics stuff isnt meant to be customized, its designed to just take the weight off 90% your instances |
| 13:20:50 | <dminuoso> | Writing out manual instances for the rest 10% is worth it |
| 13:21:12 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: Writing generics is not hard, it's just confusing at the beginning if you dont understand all the letters and names. |
| 13:21:18 | <dminuoso> | But really, it's just a simple tree that you work on |
| 13:21:59 | <Profpatsch> | It’s not a particularly fun or debuggable experience |
| 13:22:07 | <Profpatsch> | maybe with generics-sop |
| 13:22:17 | <dminuoso> | honestly, with generics-sop things get worse |
| 13:22:39 | <dminuoso> | because now you cant even use your original data structure as an indication of the shape you're producing |
| 13:23:08 | <dminuoso> | The thing with json encoding is, they should ideally be disconnected/separate from your implementation |
| 13:23:18 | <dminuoso> | What you're doing is trying *very* hard to keep them coupled |
| 13:23:28 | <dminuoso> | And with generics-sop you're breaking that |
| 13:23:34 | <dminuoso> | In weird ways |
| 13:24:12 | <Profpatsch> | I’d rather write an Encoder at every place I have to encode data tbh |
| 13:24:17 | <dminuoso> | Because to some degree you're doing tight coupling (since the JSON representation is still a direct reflection of your haskell data type), except it's not even in the same shape anymore |
| 13:24:17 | <Profpatsch> | instead of relying on ToJSON |
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| 13:24:39 | <dminuoso> | Profpatsch: I do this 90% generics, 10% bespoke instances - and this works very well |
| 13:25:01 | <dminuoso> | Saves me from writing useless boilerplate, and yet I get full control over when I want something different than what generics would do |
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| 13:25:10 | <dminuoso> | (or if I start changing the data without changing the json representation) |
| 13:25:46 | <dminuoso> | If you also have FromJSON instances, the benefit is that you dont even need to test the 90% for whether toJSON/fromJSON rountrips |
| 13:25:54 | <dminuoso> | Only need it for the remaining 105 |
| 13:25:56 | <dminuoso> | Only need it for the remaining 10% |
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| 13:44:03 | <ddb> | I'm having some trouble installing djinn, does anyone have experience with haskell on fedora? |
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| 13:44:13 | <ddb> | here's the error I'm getting: https://ttm.sh/eKu.txt |
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| 13:44:37 | <geekosaur> | right, nobody has updated it in particular for the addition of <> as infix mappend |
| 13:44:49 | <geekosaur> | you'd have to qualify those two uses of <> |
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| 13:45:08 | <ddb> | ok, so my real goal is to install lambdabot |
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| 13:45:14 | <geekosaur> | (I just tried to install it here) |
| 13:45:47 | <ddb> | > product [1..5] |
| 13:45:49 | <lambdabot> | 120 |
| 13:46:25 | <ddb> | I'm trying to follow the instructions here: https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/tree/master/lambdabot |
| 13:46:42 | <geekosaur> | int-e, do you have any wisdom about installing lambdabot on modern ghc? |
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| 13:47:48 | <int-e> | is 8.10.7 still modern |
| 13:48:19 | <geekosaur> | still a lot of people using it since 9.0.1 and 9.2.1 are still not supported by most of the ecosystem |
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| 13:48:56 | <geekosaur> | and in any case the error they're getting is from the addition of infix mappend conflicting with prettyprinting |
| 13:49:10 | <ddb> | my local version is 8.10.5, so that seems like a good place to start |
| 13:49:11 | <int-e> | oh those instructions, that `install` predates new-install, so I'd mentally substitute v1-install. |
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| 13:49:45 | <ddb> | hah I tried v2-install and new-install, didn't know about v1-install |
| 13:49:57 | <ddb> | same error, however |
| 13:50:25 | <ddb> | cabal-install version 3.6.2.0 |
| 13:51:26 | <int-e> | let me see how far it gets for me |
| 13:51:28 | <ddb> | I am also attempting the install as an unpriviledged user, although that does not seem to be the problem. |
| 13:52:33 | <maerwald> | 9.0.1 and 9.2.1 both have serious bugs, but I think we'll get 9.0.2 |
| 13:53:26 | <int-e> | Oh it's really `djinn` that fails? Let's see. It seems I patched it: `cabal unpack djinn`, then insert an `import Prelude hiding ((<>))` in src/HTypes.hs, and then cabal v1-install from its source directory. |
| 13:53:52 | <int-e> | @djinn a -> b -> a |
| 13:53:52 | <lambdabot> | f a _ = a |
| 13:54:16 | <int-e> | that's what `djinn` (an executable) is needed for; the rest of lambdabot doesn't use it. |
| 13:54:41 | <ddb> | well if it's working here, I'd like to keep it if possible |
| 13:55:17 | <ddb> | if I run lambdabot and try commands I also get errors like |
| 13:55:20 | <ddb> | lambdabot> > product [1..5] |
| 13:55:22 | <ddb> | Plugin `eval' failed with: mueval: readCreateProcessWithExitCode: runInteractiveProcess: exec: does not exist (No such file or directory) |
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| 13:56:06 | <int-e> | right, that probably means that *mumble* ~/.cabal/bin is not in your PATH |
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| 13:56:35 | <geekosaur> | or you v2-installed mueval which might break things in other ways |
| 13:56:43 | <ddb> | it does appear to be in my path, although I do have cabal symlinked elswhere |
| 13:56:47 | <int-e> | or does mueval have to be installed separately? |
| 13:56:52 | <geekosaur> | (with your version of cabal, v2-install is the default) |
| 13:57:30 | <int-e> | I should probably figure out the various quirks of v2-install wrt both libraries and executables :-/ |
| 13:57:37 | <geekosaur> | oh also if it literally shows "~/.cabal/bin" in your PATH then it won't be working; only shells understand ~ |
| 13:57:47 | <geekosaur> | you may have to readd it as $HOME/.cabal/bin |
| 13:58:00 | <geekosaur> | s/readd/re-add/ |
| 13:58:09 | <int-e> | good point |
| 13:58:21 | <ddb> | it's the right path, /home/ddb/.cabal/bin |
| 13:58:33 | <int-e> | is there a mueval executable in there? |
| 13:59:13 | <ddb> | yes, as you suggested I cabal install mueval and now get this error in lambdabot |
| 13:59:15 | <ddb> | mueval-core: GhcException "cannot satisfy -trust lambdabot-trusted\n (use -v for more information)" |
| 13:59:22 | <ddb> | when I try do do |
| 13:59:25 | <ddb> | > product [1..5] |
| 13:59:27 | <lambdabot> | 120 |
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| 14:00:50 | <ddb> | I'm going afk for now but I will be back one of these days to continue debugging this issue |
| 14:00:54 | <ddb> | thanks for all your help so far! |
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| 14:01:28 | <int-e> | hmm. does passing --trust=lambdabot-trusted to lambdabot help? |
| 14:04:32 | <ddb> | nope, same error |
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| 14:05:51 | <int-e> | eh let me try this myself... |
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| 14:09:51 | <int-e> | ... https://xkcd.com/303/ ... |
| 14:12:22 | <int-e> | Huh, it works for me? |
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| 14:20:37 | <hippoid> | is there a way to search the archives of this channel by username? |
| 14:21:13 | <[exa]> | hippoid: actually tomsmeding was wondering about adding some such functionality a few days ago :D |
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| 14:22:12 | <hippoid> | [exa]: i'd use that! I can see there's an archive, but no easy way to search it |
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| 14:28:12 | <geekosaur> | the code has most of the UI side of it already, but is missing the backend functionality (sphinx iirc) to do the actual search |
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| 14:35:27 | <int-e> | ddb: yeah after "cabal update; cabal v1-install lambdabot" in a clean user directory, `lambdabot` works for me. this is a Debian system but I don't see why it would matter? |
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| 14:36:37 | <int-e> | ddb: and "works for me" includes simple evaluations like "> product [1..5]" or "> S.fromList [3,1,4,1,5,9,2]" |
| 14:36:45 | <tomsmeding> | hippoid: eternally busy, but I have to proctor at a 3 hour exam this evening, so we'll see what happens :p |
| 14:36:46 | <geekosaur> | something about what gets installed with v2-install being symlinks, is what I ran into |
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| 14:37:26 | <geekosaur> | I had to mess with my dotfile stuff to make it all work with v2-install |
| 14:37:52 | <geekosaur> | not that I run lambdabot any more, but it also affected things like pandoc, hledger, and xmonad |
| 14:40:19 | <hippoid> | tomsmeding: it'll be used right away. I ask questions here and then have to go back and find the answers when I have more time to think about them. |
| 14:41:00 | <geekosaur> | fwiw I track stuff in utc and mark when I ask stuff, so it's easier to search logs |
| 14:41:08 | <int-e> | ddb: One thing I can think of is that if you specify *any* package with --trust that disables the default list, so you need to specify all packages that need to be trusted. A minimal list for the default Pristine.hs is: lambdabot --trust=base --trust=random --trust=lambdabot-trusted |
| 14:41:37 | <geekosaur> | (logs are in utc and I use a wrapper script to run my IRC client in utc. this of course won't work so well if you're using webchat, and may not work well if you're on matrix) |
| 14:41:58 | <hippoid> | geekosaur: do you use irssi? |
| 14:42:03 | <geekosaur> | hexchat |
| 14:42:25 | <geekosaur> | but more or less the same wrapper script would work, I just shove TZ=TUC0 into the environment before running it |
| 14:42:31 | <geekosaur> | er, TZ=UTC0 |
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| 14:43:42 | <geekosaur> | int-e, might that be part of what's wrong with using v2-install? I would guess they mark lambdabot-trusted as trusted in the package database, but package databases are kinda weird in "nix-like" mode |
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| 14:44:33 | <sprout> | technically, you can break a lot more than only the type system with unsafePerformIO |
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| 14:44:54 | <int-e> | geekosaur: Do package environments (which I believe substitute the v1- model of installed libraries) even carry trust information? |
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| 14:45:34 | <geekosaur> | there is ghc-pkg trust <pkgid> |
| 14:45:41 | <int-e> | geekosaur: though, trust shouldn't be relevant because lambdabot overrides it anyway. but package visibility may be an issue |
| 14:45:57 | <int-e> | seeing ddb's precise error might yield some clues |
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| 14:48:56 | <geekosaur> | and no, I don't think pkgenv carries trust information, which is part of why v1-install would avoid it, it's not just faking package databases with package environments |
| 14:49:15 | <geekosaur> | v1-install still modifies package databases |
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| 15:04:49 | <int-e> | ah it appears that `hint` (and hence `mueval` and `lambdabot`) does pick up the default GHC environment, so with v2-install, cabal v2-install lambdabot hoogle misfortune mueval unlambda dice; cabal v2-install --lib lambdabot-trusted random mtl show seems to be sufficient to get things working... |
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| 15:09:29 | <int-e> | oh does the default environment override the package database? if so then that would explain quite a lot |
| 15:10:08 | <int-e> | And I guess it does. "clear-package-db" |
| 15:10:54 | <int-e> | So once you use v2-install at all, v1-install-ed libraries will no longer be picked up unless you set GHC_ENVIRONMENT=- |
| 15:10:57 | <int-e> | ...eww... |
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| 15:14:50 | <int-e> | ddb: ^ I may have figured out what happened to your lambdabot installation attempt. |
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| 15:33:32 | <geekosaur> | mm, I wonder if that's actually true. it'd also lose base if it were |
| 15:34:01 | <geekosaur> | so I think it only clears the virtual(?) package db used by the package environment |
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| 16:14:14 | <jlamothe> | I'm in the process of writing a Gemini server framework (I'm aware of the gemini-server package). I'm using tcp-streams to handle the TLS stuff, but I needed a way to find out which client certificate (if any) is being used when a connection is opened. Is this approach reasonable, or the ugly hack I suspect it mogjt be? https://codeberg.org/jlamothe/gemserv/src/branch/master/src/Network/GemServ.hs#L181 |
| 16:14:59 | <jlamothe> | The relevent functions are listenLoop and adjustServwrParams |
| 16:15:45 | <jlamothe> | might be* adjustServerParams* |
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| 16:16:04 | <jlamothe> | IRC over SSH on mobile is fun. |
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| 16:19:37 | <subdelusional> | hello, I have a list [1..10], how can I filter out all the even numbers from it? is there a function for that? |
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| 16:20:25 | <jlamothe> | subdelusional: Have you looked at the filter function from Data.List? |
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| 16:38:46 | <subdelusional> | jlamothe: thanks man I was looking for this |
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| 16:39:59 | <c_wraith> | jlamothe: that will obliterate any existing client certificate hook in params |
| 16:40:12 | <c_wraith> | jlamothe: that might cause you problems down the line |
| 16:40:21 | <c_wraith> | (probably not, but it could happen) |
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| 16:43:43 | <c_wraith> | Oh, nevermind. You did handle that, just in a different spot than I expected. |
| 16:45:13 | <c_wraith> | though the `certhook chain` call should probably be moved out one level. It should really always happen if the hook is called. |
| 16:46:02 | <c_wraith> | fwiw... |
| 16:46:07 | <c_wraith> | :t print <> print |
| 16:46:09 | <lambdabot> | Show a => a -> IO () |
| 16:46:48 | <c_wraith> | you don't need to call down the chain explicitly, you could just <> the handlers together |
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| 17:03:25 | <jlamothe> | c_wraith: It does call tje original hook at the end. |
| 17:04:43 | <c_wraith> | jlamothe: only if the chain is non-empty |
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| 19:51:03 | <koz> | I'm trying to write a newtype wrapper for lists, whose goal is to define an Arbitrary instance generating lists whose size is no more than some constant n. |
| 19:51:08 | <koz> | How would I write this in a sensible way? |
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| 19:57:02 | <tomsmeding> | koz: is that constant actually compile-time constant? |
| 19:57:50 | <tomsmeding> | newtype ConstSizeList a = ConstSizeList [a] ; instance Arbitrary a => Arbitrary (ConstSizeList a) where arbitrary = ConstSizeList <$> replicateM n arbitrary |
| 19:57:55 | <tomsmeding> | from Control.Monad |
| 19:58:29 | <koz> | tomsmeding: That's _already_ wrong, because it ignores the size parameter. |
| 19:58:44 | <koz> | Also, this will _always_ give lists of length n, whereas I need _up to_ n. |
| 19:58:47 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 19:58:54 | <koz> | There's a reason why I'm asking: QuickCheck is a delicate beast. |
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| 19:59:13 | <koz> | I'll try cribbing off the list instance maybe. |
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| 19:59:27 | <tomsmeding> | does it ignore the size parameter though? |
| 19:59:34 | <tomsmeding> | I concede it always generates size n |
| 20:00:08 | <tomsmeding> | but the elements will inherit the size parameter |
| 20:00:09 | <koz> | Yes, it _must_ ignore it. |
| 20:00:18 | <koz> | Because the size _must_ affect the length too, and here it won't. |
| 20:00:29 | <koz> | Simply-put, if it were that simple, I wouldn't be asking. |
| 20:00:32 | <hpc> | you can probably use an arbitrary Int (constrained appropriately) for the list length |
| 20:00:40 | <koz> | I guess that _might_ work. |
| 20:00:48 | <koz> | Again, I'll crib off the [] instance. |
| 20:00:54 | <koz> | Since it has to determine length _somehow_. |
| 20:01:15 | <koz> | Yep, it does exactly what hpc says. |
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| 20:01:28 | <koz> | It uses the size directly to determine length, then fills it. |
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| 20:01:37 | <koz> | So for a capped size, I guess scaling? |
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| 20:01:52 | <koz> | I could do like, max size n I guess. |
| 20:02:00 | <koz> | So large sizes just always produce bigger lists. |
| 20:02:04 | <koz> | That's simpler. |
| 20:02:15 | <koz> | (this is how listOf1 works) |
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| 20:07:21 | <dsal> | You just feed `choose (1,n)` into `listOf` |
| 20:08:13 | <koz> | dsal: Yeah, I figured that out now. Thanks. |
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| 20:24:19 | <mark__> | The core dump of "x :: Num a => Maybe a; x = Just 42" looks like this: "x = \ @ a_aaUF $dNum_aaUH -> Just (fromInteger $dNum_aaUH 42)". Why is there an additional argument befor ethe dictionary. It's not even used in the body? |
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| 20:24:56 | <tomjaguarpaw> | That's a type argument |
| 20:25:22 | <mark__> | So the $dNum has to match the type arg? |
| 20:25:34 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Yes, I'm not sure why it doesn't appear there |
| 20:25:50 | <tomjaguarpaw> | But apparently it doesn't |
| 20:26:06 | <tomjaguarpaw> | If you can see where $dNum_aaUH is created then maybe a_aaUF features there |
| 20:26:14 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Oh, no because it's bound right there |
| 20:26:24 | <tomsmeding> | % :set -fprint-explicit-foralls |
| 20:26:24 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 20:26:24 | <mark__> | Yes this is the binding site. |
| 20:26:26 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Yeah I'm not sure exactly how that all fits together. |
| 20:26:27 | <tomsmeding> | % f :: Num a => Maybe a ; f = Just 42 |
| 20:26:27 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 20:26:29 | <tomsmeding> | % :t f |
| 20:26:29 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: forall {a}. Num a => Maybe a |
| 20:27:08 | <tomsmeding> | note that that first argument, a_aaUF, is tagged with a @ |
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| 20:27:30 | <tomsmeding> | I don't know for sure, but I would be surprised if that doesn't mean "this is a type argument" a la TypeApplications |
| 20:28:18 | <geekosaur> | I believe it does, and that's in fact where TypeApplications syntax came from |
| 20:28:21 | <mark__> | Like a capital lambda? |
| 20:28:29 | <monochrom> | I bet you suppressed type annotations in the dump. |
| 20:28:34 | <tomsmeding> | $dNum_aaUH isn't a polymorphic thing, right? it's a dictionary for this one particular type |
| 20:28:47 | <tomsmeding> | so there's no forall in its type, so no reason to apply anything to a_aaUF |
| 20:28:52 | <mark__> | monochrom: Yes I did suppress all. |
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| 20:28:56 | <monochrom> | Because the full version is x = \ (@ a_aAT) ($dNum_aAV :: Num a_aAT) -> GHC.Maybe.Just @ a_aAT (fromInteger @ a_aAT $dNum_aAV N.x1) |
| 20:29:08 | <monochrom> | See how a_aAT is all over the place. |
| 20:29:09 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Ah that makes more sense |
| 20:29:12 | <tomsmeding> | heh |
| 20:29:38 | <mark__> | I thought it would be more readable but then it doesn't tell the whole story. |
| 20:29:41 | <tomsmeding> | my remark about $dNum not needing the type argument is still valid though *phew* |
| 20:30:00 | <monochrom> | Also, clearly, the type argument is useless except in type annotations. See also System F. |
| 20:31:21 | <tomjaguarpaw> | c |
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| 20:32:48 | <maerwald> | what do you think about a GHC plugin that applies a function with flipped argument when you write it backwards, such as `pamf` |
| 20:33:12 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I think it would be taerg |
| 20:33:20 | <geekosaur> | sounds like a type fest waiting to happen |
| 20:33:26 | <geekosaur> | *typo fest |
| 20:33:47 | <maerwald> | of course you rais ambiguity errors when the same thing is in scope |
| 20:33:57 | <maerwald> | although silently shadowing could be fun |
| 20:34:04 | <monochrom> | Let's take it one step further. |
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| 20:34:23 | <tomsmeding> | what about (>>) |
| 20:34:31 | <monochrom> | Suppose I have "abcd :: A -> B -> C -> D -> Z". |
| 20:34:32 | <geekosaur> | it already is |
| 20:34:53 | <monochrom> | Then acbd :: A -> C -> B -> D -> Z. |
| 20:35:45 | <maerwald> | That migh work if camelcase is an index for the type position |
| 20:35:50 | <tomsmeding> | unclear what to do with famp though |
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| 20:36:51 | <maerwald> | soGreatIsThat :: A -> B -> C -> D |
| 20:36:51 | <tomsmeding> | alternative: `fmap` is the normal thing, ´fmap´ is the flipped version |
| 20:36:58 | <maerwald> | thatIsSoGreat :: D -> C -> A -> B |
| 20:37:18 | <tomsmeding> | (U+00B4 ACUTE ACCENT) |
| 20:39:28 | <koz> | If I have a type Foo a which is a wrapper around [a] ensuring a limit on the length of [a], can I derive its Function instance via the underlying [a], or will this cause trouble> |
| 20:39:31 | <koz> | ?* |
| 20:39:31 | <lambdabot> | Maybe you meant: v @ ? . |
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| 20:39:42 | <koz> | By which I mean this Function here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/QuickCheck-2.14.2/docs/Test-QuickCheck-Function.html |
| 20:40:00 | <monochrom> | Function? Functor? |
| 20:40:14 | <koz> | monochrom: See my link - it's a QuickCheck thing. |
| 20:40:28 | <koz> | I've read the paper about Function and how it works and don't have a good answer to this question. |
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| 20:43:47 | <tomsmeding> | not sure, but this is public API: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/QuickCheck-2.14/docs/Test-QuickCheck-Function.html#v:functionMap |
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| 20:44:14 | <tomsmeding> | though that doesn't answer the question because what to put in the [a] -> Foo a thing |
| 20:44:21 | <koz> | That's exactly my issue. |
| 20:44:33 | <koz> | I _can_ crib a translation; I have no idea if it makes any sense or not. |
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| 20:49:15 | <koz> | I think they all project into Either, and then use that to label the different kinds of case, but I'm not sure how this works in my case. |
| 20:49:31 | <koz> | Bool and Ordering both do this, and what I have can be thought of as a (very large) sum. |
| 20:50:12 | <tomsmeding> | hm, that should be valid: it _is_ a very large sum, after all |
| 20:50:26 | <koz> | Yeah, the big question is _how_ to do this projection. |
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| 20:51:59 | <tomsmeding> | if you know how to deal with large sums up to n long, then you can deal with large sums up to n+1 long with a single Either |
| 20:52:05 | <tomsmeding> | that's also what the [] instance seems to do |
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| 20:52:36 | <koz> | Well, the smallest is where the limit is 0, since the only valid value is []. |
| 20:52:47 | <koz> | I'm not sure how to phrase the recursion properly here. |
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| 20:53:21 | <tomsmeding> | you can deal with sums up to 0 long by mapping into the type (), right? |
| 20:53:27 | <koz> | Yes. |
| 20:53:38 | <koz> | I get the idea - I'm not sure how to spell it. |
| 20:53:40 | <tomsmeding> | ah, but the length is not a type index |
| 20:53:44 | <koz> | Correct. |
| 20:53:45 | <tomsmeding> | if it was, this could work |
| 20:53:52 | <koz> | I mean, I actually _can_ have a type index. |
| 20:53:58 | <koz> | So it'd be Foo n a. |
| 20:54:13 | <koz> | So then I write 'Function (Foo 0 a)', and then the recursive step? |
| 20:54:25 | <koz> | OK, thanks, that did it! |
| 20:54:34 | <tomsmeding> | if you have a type index, then 'instance Function (Foo 0 a) where function = functionMap (\(Foo []) -> ()) (\() -> Foo [])' |
| 20:54:49 | <tomsmeding> | and yeah, what you just figured out probably :p |
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| 20:55:23 | <koz> | Then you have (Function (Foo n a)) => Function (Foo (n + 1) a) |
| 20:55:33 | <koz> | (or 1 + n I guess. |
| 20:55:34 | <koz> | ) |
| 20:55:38 | <tomsmeding> | I wonder whether the fact that this works with the (phantom) type index, implies that it would also work without the type index |
| 20:55:54 | <koz> | Probably. |
| 20:55:58 | <tomsmeding> | i.e. the stupid thing where you error on getting a Right in the second function for [] |
| 20:55:58 | <koz> | It's just much more partial I think. |
| 20:56:22 | <tomsmeding> | but this is better! |
| 20:57:12 | <tomsmeding> | or hm, perhaps not, because the point of Function is that everything is made inspectable; so who knows whether some logic sees "hey I can Either here, so let's put a Right in it!" |
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| 22:00:48 | <maerwald> | do forM and forM_ have some significant laziness differences? I'm experiencing odd behavior |
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| 22:03:49 | <maerwald> | `void $ forM [1,2] $ \i -> putStrLn (show i) >> throwSomeError Foo` runs both loops and then errors, while `forM_` will only run the first iteration |
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| 22:12:10 | <monochrom> | I can't reproduce that. Unless I misunderstand "throwSomeError". WTH is it anyway? |
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| 22:14:05 | <maerwald> | yeah, it's not ExceptT |
| 22:14:14 | <maerwald> | but similar, I'm trying to create a minimal reproducer |
| 22:14:30 | <monochrom> | I used ioError (userError "hi") very simply. |
| 22:16:30 | <maerwald> | ok, reproduced |
| 22:16:32 | <maerwald> | wow |
| 22:16:37 | <maerwald> | this is scary |
| 22:17:43 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/hasufell/except-bug/blob/master/app/Main.hs |
| 22:18:03 | <maerwald> | this print 1, 2, 1 to stdout |
| 22:19:03 | <maerwald> | the forM version runs both |
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| 22:27:04 | <dolio> | I'm going to bet on the library you're using that uses unsafeCoerce to implement Either being at fault. :þ |
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| 22:28:00 | <ddb> | int-e: O RLY? lay it on me |
| 22:28:02 | <maerwald> | I don't see unsafeCoerce there |
| 22:28:58 | <dolio> | It's in the code for variants. |
| 22:29:29 | <maerwald> | dolio: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskus-utils-variant-3.2/docs/src/Haskus.Utils.Variant.html#toVariantHead |
| 22:29:32 | <maerwald> | at there |
| 22:29:44 | <maerwald> | but what's going on here |
| 22:29:48 | <dolio> | The unsafeCoerce isn't the likely problem. It's probably the accompanying manual arithmetic for figuring out which number is left vs. right. |
| 22:30:35 | <dolio> | And somehow the first iteration of the loop, it thinks your error isn't actually an error or something. |
| 22:31:21 | <dolio> | I guess it could be a lot of different things, really. (>>) vs. (>>=). |
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| 22:33:44 | <int-e> | ddb: check the context... the upshot is that v2-install (which you used) creates an environment for ghc and that will hide any libraries installed by v1-install by default |
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| 22:37:13 | <sclv> | what's the most convenient way to get "the underlying bytes of an Int as a ByteString" and to go back? i can see a bunch of options here... |
| 22:37:35 | <sclv> | honestly makes more sense on an Integer, so lets say that instead |
| 22:38:12 | <sclv> | like we can think of an Integer as encoding a sequence of bytes in a natural way, and it would be good to have access to that, conceptually, even if representationwise its not exactly the same thing |
| 22:38:39 | <maerwald> | dolio: if you figure it out, please comment here https://github.com/haskus/packages/issues/39 |
| 22:39:19 | <monochrom> | I have narrowed it down to >> (which forM_ uses) vs <*>/liftA2 (which forM uses). |
| 22:39:40 | <maerwald> | so the applicative instance? |
| 22:39:51 | <monochrom> | Perhaps. |
| 22:40:03 | <dolio> | I'm probably not going to look long enough to find it. The arithmetic seems like the most likely candidate unless one of the instances is just wrong. |
| 22:40:44 | <maerwald> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskus-utils-variant-3.2/docs/src/Haskus.Utils.Variant.Excepts.html#line-143 |
| 22:40:57 | <dolio> | The instances are pretty boring, though. |
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| 22:42:19 | <dolio> | maerwald: It might be interesting to come up with a test that does something after the error. |
| 22:42:34 | <dolio> | Maybe you can get it to unsafe coerce you a value. |
| 22:43:19 | <ddb> | int-e: Heyo! Thank you. Now I guess I need to download/patch djinn and it'll be fixed eh? Is there a reason that djinn hasn't been updated since 2014? |
| 22:43:35 | <jkaye> | sclv, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-0.11.1.0/docs/Data-ByteString-Builder.html ? |
| 22:43:58 | <jkaye> | Lots of functions there to go from various numeric types into a ByteString Biulder |
| 22:44:00 | <dolio> | Oh wait. |
| 22:44:02 | <jkaye> | Builder** |
| 22:44:16 | <dolio> | maerwald: Are you sure this isn't like 'Validation' or whatever? |
| 22:44:38 | <sclv> | jkaye: oh that's not bad for the encoding side, not sure what to do for the decoding side |
| 22:44:41 | <dolio> | I think it might be that. |
| 22:44:54 | <sclv> | i.e. Bytestring -> Integer |
| 22:45:06 | <sclv> | its not too hard to hand roll, just I'd think it might be lying around |
| 22:45:22 | <dolio> | (<*>) runs both things and aggregates the errors. (>>=) can't do that, and (*>) and (>>) are implemented in terms of (>>=). |
| 22:45:26 | <maerwald> | dolio: Excepts is an open sum type in the error |
| 22:45:54 | <dolio> | Well, look at that (<*>) definition. |
| 22:46:07 | <maerwald> | yeah |
| 22:46:17 | <dolio> | It doesn't care if the first thing fails. |
| 22:46:28 | <monochrom> | Ah. |
| 22:46:52 | <dolio> | I guess it's the worst of both Validation and Either. :) |
| 22:47:07 | <dolio> | Only one error, but no short circuiting. :) |
| 22:47:35 | <jkaye> | sclv, is it possible to choose an encoding scheme to do this for you, or is it a requirement that you do it directly? |
| 22:47:50 | <monochrom> | Well, one of <*>, >>= is broken because they differ. |
| 22:47:58 | <jkaye> | For example (silly example, but still) aeson would do this for you using json as the encoding |
| 22:48:04 | <sclv> | jkaye: i'm just trying to look at the most straightforward way to do this, pulling in as few libs as possible :-) |
| 22:48:14 | <jkaye> | Ah okay, so looking for minimal deps |
| 22:48:18 | <jkaye> | Makes sense |
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| 22:48:52 | <sclv> | guess i'll just write my own for now. thanks for the pointer! |
| 22:51:10 | <jkaye> | Yeah I think the issue with that being available in base (generically) is that a ByteString can't really be guaranteed to be an Int (or anything else) |
| 22:51:19 | <jkaye> | Someone else might know more about this stuff |
| 22:56:09 | <maerwald> | dolio: yep... I fixed the instances and now it works |
| 22:56:12 | <maerwald> | monochrom: good catch |
| 22:56:36 | <maerwald> | just looked at the ExceptT applicative instance, which just does explicit pattern matching |
| 22:57:07 | <maerwald> | maybe because it looked less elegant, they tried to make it shorter |
| 22:58:22 | <monochrom> | IMO "(<*>) = Control.Monad.ap" is the most elegant and the safest and the least work, too. |
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| 23:02:47 | <maerwald> | but it's surprising that forM_ is not `void . forM` |
| 23:04:07 | <monochrom> | Using IO for example, "forM [0..] print" takes infinite memory, and void does not save it, void comes in too late. |
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| 23:04:46 | <monochrom> | forM_ is carefully crafted to solve that. |
| 23:05:41 | <monochrom> | Since this is IO's >>=, yes tail recursion matters in this case. |
| 23:07:21 | <monochrom> | "forM_ (x:xs) f = f x >>= \_ -> forM_ xs f" is a tail recursion, "forM (x:xs) f = f x >>= \y -> forM xs f >>= oh now I have to return something" is a non-tail recursion. |
| 23:07:54 | <monochrom> | OK, except that modern forM uses <*> instead of >>= |
| 23:08:48 | <maerwald> | sequenceA |
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| 23:13:54 | <maerwald> | meh... sequence default impl is sequenceA |
| 23:14:02 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 23:14:04 | <maerwald> | trying to dive around this bug isn't that easy |
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| 23:14:23 | <monochrom> | Roll your own forM :) |
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| 23:17:33 | <int-e> | /lastlog ddb 3 |
| 23:17:46 | <int-e> | (darn space bar) |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-11-11.