Logs on 2021-11-18 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:16 | <monochrom> | Someone used Strict Data blindly. |
| 00:00:18 | <Axman6> | I understand doing that on the search page, moves search into the browser and makes life easier for the server |
| 00:00:35 | <Axman6> | needs more iteratees |
| 00:01:06 | <monochrom> | I just use "search". Hackage has grown too big for "list all packages" anyway. |
| 00:01:18 | <Axman6> | agreed |
| 00:01:27 | <Axman6> | !hackage foo in DDG |
| 00:01:27 | <Cajun> | googling for packages tends to be faster for me lol |
| 00:01:40 | <hpc> | Axman6: ooh yes, and !hoogle |
| 00:01:59 | <hpc> | or !h for short |
| 00:02:06 | <hpc> | we get one of the coveted single-letter patterns |
| 00:02:34 | <Axman6> | yah |
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| 00:02:58 | <Axman6> | I should remember that one... but I can never remember which things !h actually redirects to =) |
| 00:05:05 | <geekosaur> | most of the time I use a locally brewed one that is more or less the same as @hackage in lambdabot :) |
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| 00:07:02 | <Axman6> | hackage() { echo "https://hackage.haskell.org/package/$1" } |
| 00:07:29 | <geekosaur> | yep |
| 00:07:53 | <Axman6> | @hackage ../../../../../../../../etc/passwd |
| 00:07:53 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/../../../../../../../../etc/passwd |
| 00:07:58 | <hpc> | you can bookmark "https://hackage.haskell.org/package/%s in firefox too |
| 00:08:00 | <geekosaur> | if I need more than that I feed it to browser search |
| 00:08:13 | <hpc> | minus the quote |
| 00:08:33 | <hpc> | give it a keyword, then "keyword base" in the url bar takes you straight there |
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| 00:11:25 | <sclv> | PRs welcome to improve the /browse interface on hackage, please! |
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| 00:36:31 | <Guest|46> | Hello, I am attempting to install the haskell tool chain via powershell using the command @ https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/. The command runs and I give it permissions. It starts downloading MSys2 and after a minute stops. This error message is displayed. |
| 00:36:46 | <Guest|46> | Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/1db5e2821ebdeed4ae1b365be565757c/pasted.txt |
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| 01:02:23 | <geekosaur> | mm. maerwald? |
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| 01:09:03 | <geekosaur> | guess you'll have to stick around a bit until he gets back |
| 01:09:15 | <geekosaur> | hoping he hasn't gone to bed or something |
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| 01:11:26 | <Guest|46> | No worries, thanks for helping how you can. |
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| 01:16:13 | <janus> | but maerwald seems to be on european hours and it is the middle of the night there |
| 01:16:53 | <sm> | Guest|46: you could try running that curl command showing in the error output to see what's up |
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| 01:20:32 | <Guest|46> | I should have included that part of the console output. "Curl 18" was the message. My knowledge of this stuff is limited, my apologies. |
| 01:21:20 | <Guest|46> | By that do you mean to run the command "curl 18" |
| 01:21:33 | <Guest|46> | I am running windows 10 btw |
| 01:21:45 | <Guest|46> | I have only ever used curl on Linux |
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| 01:22:20 | <janus> | Guest|46: try 'curl -o C:\Users\JOHNCO~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msys2-x86_64-latest.sfx.exe https://repo.msys2.org/distrib/msys2-x86_64-latest.sfx.exe' from the directory where curl resides |
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| 01:24:04 | <Guest|46> | Would that just continue the download where it left off? From looking on google it seems like the network connection was just interrupted. |
| 01:25:06 | <janus> | Guest|46: no, i don't think curl would continue unless it is passed the -C flag |
| 01:26:25 | <janus> | but i guess you could try that? i don't know if what makes the ghcup installer attempt to redownload, and i don't know whether it can even detect that the file already is downloaded |
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| 01:27:29 | <janus> | but it would make sense if ghcup could detect an existing msys installation, so maybe it would make sense to attempt to install it |
| 01:27:49 | <sm> | maybe it was an intermittent failure and it works if you retry ? |
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| 01:28:17 | <Guest|46> | In that event it would seem safer to just use the same command provided on the web page and let the installer handle it. |
| 01:29:27 | <Guest|46> | Oh yeah, it happened twice on the same line. Forgot to mention |
| 01:29:51 | <Guest|46> | So the installer did not handle it. |
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| 01:32:50 | <Guest|46> | I'm just going to start a new instance of windows and try again. Thank you for all of your help. I will be back if the problem persists. |
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| 02:42:15 | <longporkpisspawg> | I am in need of some help. I used the command on the ghcup page to install the haskell toolchain. It seemed like it worked, but when i run a command to test it gives me this error. PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> ghc |
| 02:42:16 | <longporkpisspawg> | Loaded package environment from C:\Users\Jake\AppData\Roaming\ghc\x86_64-mingw32-9.2.1\environments\default |
| 02:42:16 | <longporkpisspawg> | ghc-9.2.1.exe: can't find a package database at C:\Users\Jake\AppData\Roaming\cabal\store\ghc-9.2.1\package.db |
| 02:42:16 | <longporkpisspawg> | PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> gcup list |
| 02:42:18 | <longporkpisspawg> | gcup : The term 'gcup' is not recognized as the name of a cmdlet, function, script file, or operable program. Check |
| 02:42:21 | <longporkpisspawg> | the spelling of the name, or if a path was included, verify that the path is correct and try again. |
| 02:42:23 | <longporkpisspawg> | At line:1 char:1 |
| 02:42:25 | <longporkpisspawg> | + gcup list |
| 02:42:27 | <longporkpisspawg> | + ~~~~ |
| 02:42:29 | <longporkpisspawg> | + CategoryInfo : ObjectNotFound: (gcup:String) [], CommandNotFoundException |
| 02:42:31 | <longporkpisspawg> | + FullyQualifiedErrorId : CommandNotFoundException |
| 02:42:33 | <longporkpisspawg> | PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> ghci |
| 02:42:35 | <longporkpisspawg> | Loaded package environment from C:\Users\Jake\AppData\Roaming\ghc\x86_64-mingw32-9.2.1\environments\default |
| 02:42:38 | <longporkpisspawg> | GHCi, version 9.2.1: https://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help |
| 02:42:40 | <longporkpisspawg> | ghc-9.2.1.exe: can't find a package database at C:\Users\Jake\AppData\Roaming\cabal\store\ghc-9.2.1\package.db |
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| 02:58:20 | <Cajun> | please use https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ to paste code errors rather than straight into IRC |
| 02:58:52 | <Cajun> | also, you typed `gcup` when it should be `ghcup` |
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| 03:43:13 | <Axman6> | @hoogle f (a -> b) -> a -> f b |
| 03:43:14 | <lambdabot> | Control.Lens.Lens (??) :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b |
| 03:43:14 | <lambdabot> | Control.Lens.Operators (??) :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b |
| 03:43:14 | <lambdabot> | Diagrams.Prelude (??) :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b |
| 03:43:25 | <Axman6> | @more |
| 03:43:29 | <Axman6> | :( |
| 03:45:53 | <dsal> | Oh weird. I didn't see that first f and was very confused for a moment. |
| 03:46:35 | <awpr> | :t distribute @((->) Int) |
| 03:46:36 | <lambdabot> | error: parse error on input ‘->’ |
| 03:49:29 | <awpr> | just needs TypeApplications, but it does seem to do the same thing: `Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b` |
| 03:49:46 | <dsal> | @hoogle distribute |
| 03:49:46 | <lambdabot> | Pipes.Lift distribute :: (Monad m, MonadTrans t, MFunctor t, Monad (t m), Monad (t (Proxy a' a b' b m))) => Proxy a' a b' b (t m) r -> t (Proxy a' a b' b m) r |
| 03:49:46 | <lambdabot> | Data.Distributive distribute :: (Distributive g, Functor f) => f (g a) -> g (f a) |
| 03:49:46 | <lambdabot> | Streaming distribute :: (Monad m, Functor f, MonadTrans t, MFunctor t, Monad (t (Stream f m))) => Stream f (t m) r -> t (Stream f m) r |
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| 04:07:49 | <DemiMarieObenour> | @hoogle kerberos |
| 04:07:49 | <lambdabot> | Network.AWS.EMR kerberosAttributes :: Text -> Text -> KerberosAttributes |
| 04:07:49 | <lambdabot> | Network.AWS.EMR.Types kerberosAttributes :: Text -> Text -> KerberosAttributes |
| 04:07:49 | <lambdabot> | Network.AWS.EMR data KerberosAttributes |
| 04:08:03 | <DemiMarieObenour> | @hoogle security |
| 04:08:03 | <lambdabot> | Data.Swagger.Lens security :: HasSecurity s a => Lens' s a |
| 04:08:03 | <lambdabot> | Network.FTP.Client security :: Handle -> Security |
| 04:08:03 | <lambdabot> | module System.Win32.Security |
| 04:08:17 | <DemiMarieObenour> | @hoogle ntpd |
| 04:08:17 | <lambdabot> | Data.Conduit.Shell ntpd :: ProcessType r => r |
| 04:08:17 | <lambdabot> | Data.Conduit.Shell.PATH ntpd :: ProcessType r => r |
| 04:08:17 | <lambdabot> | Data.Conduit.Shell ntpdate :: ProcessType r => r |
| 04:09:11 | <DemiMarieObenour> | @hoogle segfault |
| 04:09:11 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 04:09:25 | <DemiMarieObenour> | @hoogle unsafeCoerce# |
| 04:09:25 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Exts unsafeCoerce# :: forall (k0 :: RuntimeRep) (k1 :: RuntimeRep) (a :: TYPE k0) (b :: TYPE k1) . a -> b |
| 04:09:25 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Prim unsafeCoerce# :: a -> b |
| 04:09:35 | <DemiMarieObenour> | @hoogle unsafe |
| 04:09:35 | <lambdabot> | Language.Haskell.TH.Lib unsafe :: Safety |
| 04:09:35 | <lambdabot> | Language.Haskell.TH.Lib.Internal unsafe :: Safety |
| 04:09:35 | <lambdabot> | package unsafe |
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| 08:43:07 | <ProfSimm> | I wonder if functional languages are seen as the most fundamental form of computation. There are two things it lacks, i think to make the functional paradigm fundamental. That is energy conservation, and time as a core primitive. |
| 08:43:32 | <ProfSimm> | Functional languages are rather explicitly "symbolic", this makes them much easier to work with. |
| 08:43:39 | <ProfSimm> | But not when you model reality i think |
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| 08:44:40 | <Hecate> | what |
| 08:44:58 | <Hecate> | ProfSimm: depends what is your most fundamental computation support |
| 08:45:07 | <ProfSimm> | Oh just contemplating computation in the universe I guess, Hecate |
| 08:45:07 | <Hecate> | on Von Neumann computers, they're definitely not |
| 08:45:26 | <Hecate> | yeah but does the universe run on a CPU or on a sheet of paper |
| 08:45:34 | <Hecate> | also, were maths discovered or invented? ;) |
| 08:45:47 | <ProfSimm> | Hecate computers are an interesting bunch. They're based on a binary system, where one symbol means "a thing" and the other means "not a thing". So they're also explicitly symbolic, as they encoding nothing as a thing. |
| 08:46:04 | <ProfSimm> | Ironically there's no such dichotomy in the hardware. There's charge or no charge |
| 08:46:12 | <ProfSimm> | There's no such thing as the "no charge" charge |
| 08:46:49 | <Hecate> | hehe |
| 08:46:50 | <Hecate> | yeah |
| 08:46:56 | <ProfSimm> | Hecate, if we dig into it the words invented/discoverd blur together is the issue |
| 08:47:13 | <ProfSimm> | It's a good question but if we want to be precise, we realize the question is imprecise. |
| 08:47:25 | <ProfSimm> | Math is a set of symbols that express real relationships. |
| 08:47:31 | <Hecate> | Yeah, it's like "Oh, I've "discovered" this land where other people already live!" |
| 08:47:32 | <ProfSimm> | But the symbols are probably arbitrary |
| 08:47:36 | <Hecate> | yup' |
| 08:47:39 | <kritzefitz> | Usually there is a non-zero tolerance charge up to which the charge is still interpreted as no charge. So arguably there is a no-charge charge. |
| 08:47:42 | <ProfSimm> | Much like our arbitrary decision to use decimal vs some other system |
| 08:47:59 | <Hecate> | ProfSimm: base20 was huge in France for a while |
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| 08:48:21 | <ProfSimm> | Hecate, there's this theory that if something can exist mathematically, then it already exists and you just discovered it |
| 08:48:26 | <Hecate> | we have a hospital in Paris called "The Fifteen Twenties Hospital", because there were 300 beds (15*20) |
| 08:48:37 | <ProfSimm> | So the moment you invent something, you no longer invented it. You discovered it :P |
| 08:48:51 | <ProfSimm> | We could say "general relativity" applies to discoveries. |
| 08:49:00 | <ProfSimm> | Local inventions are non-local discoveries |
| 08:49:00 | <ProfSimm> | :P |
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| 08:49:49 | <ProfSimm> | kristjansson_, there's a threshold yes, but that's more to filter out noise |
| 08:50:12 | <ProfSimm> | kristjansson_, if we think in terms of reliably detectable charge, it's still charge or no charge |
| 08:50:37 | <ProfSimm> | It would be neat if CPUs offered machine code that matches their implementation |
| 08:50:46 | <ProfSimm> | I.e. only 1 and period between 1s |
| 08:50:48 | <ProfSimm> | No 0s |
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| 08:51:57 | <ProfSimm> | Imagine if functional languages had energy conservation |
| 08:52:11 | <ProfSimm> | So you call a function and you need to pass not only data, but the energy to run the computation with |
| 08:52:18 | <ProfSimm> | And if you supply too little, you get partial answer |
| 08:52:24 | <ProfSimm> | If you supply too much, the function blows up |
| 08:52:32 | <ProfSimm> | So you need to Goldilock every call |
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| 08:53:15 | <ProfSimm> | We'd probably curry functions with estimators |
| 08:53:43 | <ProfSimm> | "Hey f(x), can you tell me how much energy you need to compute x" "I need 100 energy" "OK here" |
| 08:54:09 | <ProfSimm> | On the plus side you'd never have endless loops |
| 08:54:17 | <ProfSimm> | Because every loop will run out of energy at some point |
| 08:55:21 | <ProfSimm> | Imagine if you could do heatmap on your program, but not by function call count, or time it took to compute, but energy balances in every function |
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| 08:57:30 | <ProfSimm> | You'd be able to literally compute your power bill from the programs you run |
| 08:57:57 | <ProfSimm> | Cloud computing would love that |
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| 09:02:41 | <kritzefitz> | I imagine that would be a nightmare for portability if your program would have to behave differently on machines with different patterns of energy consumption. |
| 09:02:42 | <ProfSimm> | You know in philosophy, the "monad" is the one that all comes from |
| 09:02:52 | <ProfSimm> | It's like the charge that powers the universe. |
| 09:03:10 | <ProfSimm> | This is why particles seem stable with no energy source. They have it, but we don't know about it yet |
| 09:03:42 | <ProfSimm> | kritzefitz, probably, but it'd probably cause standards to emerge. |
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| 09:03:55 | <ProfSimm> | kritzefitz, for example the CPU tells you how much energy it takes |
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| 09:04:09 | <ProfSimm> | kritzefitz, and you have buffers to account for platform differences |
| 09:04:36 | <ProfSimm> | kritzefitz, kinda like money. You go to a different market, prices are a bit different, but you can buy the same things |
| 09:04:44 | <kritzefitz> | Yeah, right. The whole thing seems like something you would want to abstract over, so you never have to think about it again. Which sounds to me like we would be back to where we are now, just that we had additional intermediate steps. |
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| 09:05:04 | <ProfSimm> | kritzefitz, you're quite right. |
| 09:05:25 | <ProfSimm> | kritzefitz, proof is the universe abstracted over it itself, so we have particles that appear stable with no energy input |
| 09:05:48 | <ProfSimm> | kritzefitz, but it's probably still the underlying fundamental reality |
| 09:06:19 | <ProfSimm> | kritzefitz, I doubt down under you can just copy things forever for free, for example |
| 09:06:37 | <ProfSimm> | Or alternatively we can imagine symbols exist once. And everyone links to them. But then those "links" should be free |
| 09:06:41 | <ProfSimm> | Which is again implausible |
| 09:07:31 | <ProfSimm> | It's unclear actually |
| 09:07:52 | <ProfSimm> | Maybe down under it's symbolic, and energy economy emerges because it produces selection pressure which produces interesting things |
| 09:08:25 | <ProfSimm> | But if down under it was all symbolic, then under pressure you'd find a loophole, and link yourself to the symbols for infinite energy |
| 09:08:30 | <ProfSimm> | Basically you'll cheat the game |
| 09:08:45 | <ProfSimm> | This is a bit like humans trying to find free energy |
| 09:08:50 | <ProfSimm> | If it's there, we'll find it eventually |
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| 09:09:06 | <ProfSimm> | And then the whole system collapses |
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| 10:49:30 | <maerwald> | right, free energy... |
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| 11:21:42 | <timCF> | Hello! Module GHC.TypeLits allows to lift/unlift to/from type/value level standard things like Char, String and Natural. I do wonder why only these things? Why it does not provide some generic utilities to lift/unlift whatever? Is it some GHC limitation, or just how type families are implemented in Haskell right now? Sorry if question is dumb or obvious, I'm pretty new in type familiy subject :) |
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| 11:23:54 | <tomsmeding> | timCF: have you heard of the DataKinds extension? |
| 11:24:35 | <tomsmeding> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/data_kinds.html#overview |
| 11:24:49 | <timCF> | tomsmeding: yeah, using it a lot to have phantom type parameters which are not types themselves |
| 11:25:49 | <tomsmeding> | in that case, not sure what you're asking :) |
| 11:26:14 | <tomsmeding> | oh, why there is no KnownThing that works for any type? |
| 11:26:34 | <tomsmeding> | if so, that's probably not expressible because of language limitations |
| 11:27:17 | <timCF> | tomsmeding: Yeah, I'm using this extension in something like `newtype Money (owner :: MarketRole) = Money Rational; data MarketRole = Maker | Taker` which is nothing to do with type families I guess |
| 11:28:22 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 11:29:25 | <tomsmeding> | example of what one could do, not sure if that helps: type family Not (b :: Bool) where Not 'True = 'False ; Not 'False = 'True |
| 11:29:59 | <tomsmeding> | the stuff in GHC.TypeLits is mostly special-cased in the compiler, I believe, for performance reasons |
| 11:32:20 | <timCF> | tomsmeding: so 'Bool, KnownBool and boolVal is not included into GHC.TypeLits because it can be done somewhere outside of "base"? |
| 11:32:57 | <tomsmeding> | yeah |
| 11:34:11 | <tomsmeding> | in fact, KnownNat and KnownSymbol could also be done outside of base to an extent, but them being in base (and in fact built into the compiler to an extent) allows special syntax: you can write 1 as a type and you'll get a type of kind Natural. You wouldn't be able to get this special syntax without the special implementation. |
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| 11:36:42 | <kritzefitz> | timCF: I think you might be interested in singletons. I think it might do what you want, but never really used it myself. |
| 11:36:47 | <kritzefitz> | @hackage singletons |
| 11:36:47 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singletons |
| 11:37:39 | <timCF> | tomsmeding: make sense! My first guess was that Natural, Char and String were some special case, but Bool is just normal sum-type which is not different from user-defined types |
| 11:38:11 | <timCF> | kritzefitz: thanks! |
| 11:40:03 | <ProfSimm> | I think I discovered a new type of exceptions. They don't bubble up the stack directly, first they bubble "back" to the branches the expression took, in attempt to take a better branch and avoid the exception. |
| 11:40:14 | <ProfSimm> | Anyone seen that in a language? |
| 11:41:40 | <[exa]> | is this prolog? |
| 11:41:53 | <timCF> | ProfSimm: I think some sort of `catch` or `catches` wrapped composition is the thing you want? |
| 11:41:55 | <[exa]> | (in haskell, check out LogicT) |
| 11:42:52 | <tomsmeding> | timCF: type Length :: [k] -> Nat ; type family Length ts where Length '[] = 0 ; Length (t ': ts) = 1 + Length ts |
| 11:43:01 | <tomsmeding> | types don't need to be finite in order to do stuff with them |
| 11:44:47 | <ProfSimm> | I think what i want is two things |
| 11:44:51 | <timCF> | tomsmeding: which extension do I need to write `type Length :: [k] -> Nat` like in your example? |
| 11:45:06 | <tomsmeding> | StandaloneKindSignatures |
| 11:45:07 | <timCF> | Or it's just normal type alias? |
| 11:45:14 | <ProfSimm> | 1. Dont' separate try/catch from other branches like "if". Instead every branch is an implicit "trycatch" |
| 11:45:24 | <boxscape_> | (ghc should actually tell you here which extensions you need to enable if you try it) |
| 11:45:26 | <ProfSimm> | 2. Be able to make a different decision in that branch and take another branch |
| 11:45:38 | <tomsmeding> | yeah prolog |
| 11:45:51 | <timCF> | tomsmeding: cool, thanks! I've have seen this syntax a lot in examples, but was not able to make it work :) |
| 11:46:04 | <ProfSimm> | tomsmeding, I see why Prolog was used for AI and so on. |
| 11:46:07 | <tomsmeding> | it's redundant here because the kind can be inferred |
| 11:46:16 | <tomsmeding> | timCF: but instructive here, I thought |
| 11:46:19 | <ProfSimm> | tomsmeding what kind |
| 11:46:25 | <tomsmeding> | ProfSimm: that was for timCF :) |
| 11:46:30 | <ProfSimm> | oh ok |
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| 12:22:37 | <statusfailed> | Is there a reason why Data.Semigroup.Sum doesn't have a Fractional instance? |
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| 13:19:27 | <dknite> | Hi! Wrt to the code at https://paste.tomsmeding.com/oPCg9FiQ, is there a cleaner way to handle the CondJump and UncondJump cases, without having to manually match over the Maybe Int returned by getTarget? |
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| 13:21:46 | <tomsmeding> | dknite: write 'parseCond idx targ = CondJump idx targ', and write 'fmap (parseCond idx)' ? |
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| 13:28:28 | <timCF> | Hello! Any persistent/esqueleto users there? I'm looking for a canonical way to declare generic database models with type/kind parameters, i.e. `data User (a :: Foo) b = ...` instead of plain `data User = ...` which is generated by TH by default (mkPersist and other similar). |
| 13:29:26 | <dknite> | Thanks tomdmeding! Building on your suggestion, I think we can also write `fmap (CondJump idx) (getTarget str)`. |
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| 13:54:23 | <tomsmeding> | dknite: indeed :) |
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| 15:12:03 | <Sqaure> | I want to describe the difference between Semigroup and Monoid to non Haskellers. What is the most frequently used type (for non programmers) that is a Semigroup but not a Monoid? |
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| 15:12:49 | <lortabac> | Sqaure: NonEmpty |
| 15:13:02 | <lortabac> | oh, for non programmers |
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| 15:13:05 | <lortabac> | I don't know :) |
| 15:13:29 | <Sqaure> | lortabac, oh sorry.. i *meant* for generic programmers |
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| 15:16:02 | <gehmehgeh> | Sqaure: you could just refer them to the math defintions on Wikipedia? |
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| 15:16:49 | <gehmehgeh> | *definitions |
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| 15:16:56 | <Sqaure> | gehmehgeh, I was hoping there were an analogy they knew about that would make it feel less alien |
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| 15:17:27 | <gehmehgeh> | hm. why is an analogy needed if the core conecpt is this simple? :) |
| 15:17:30 | <gehmehgeh> | *concept |
| 15:18:47 | <Sqaure> | gehmehgeh, the problem with the audience is that they are probably "not interested". Giving names to stuff they know about could be around that. |
| 15:18:52 | <geekosaur> | I would be tempted to just introduce Monoid first and bring in Semigroup after introducing something like NonEmpty (possibly the latter coming form foldr1 vs. foldr) |
| 15:19:15 | <Sqaure> | be a way around* |
| 15:19:43 | <gehmehgeh> | Sqaure: Wikipedia also lists some nice examples (from maths, obviously) |
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| 15:25:02 | <jkaye> | I think the issue with pointing people asking questions like that to Wikipedia is that they are often interested in practical applications, but most of what Wikipedia has to offer is very conceptual/theoretical. That doesn't make it bad, but it usually doesn't align with what the individual is looking for |
| 15:25:42 | <jkaye> | Especially when it comes to math. You might have 1-2 paragraphs of high level explanation, and then it drops into a proof. Which may be a good thing to understand (in the long run), but probably will not help someone who is trying to solve a problem in code |
| 15:26:24 | <gehmehgeh> | hm, that's fair |
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| 15:26:51 | <gehmehgeh> | maybe take Strings as an example for monoids? |
| 15:27:16 | <gehmehgeh> | using <> instead of "++" |
| 15:27:29 | <gehmehgeh> | They use strings, I mean. |
| 15:28:03 | <gehmehgeh> | (the concatenation operator) |
| 15:28:56 | <jkaye> | Yeah, I think there are a few good pedagogical examples for each of the major typeclasses that would help an experienced developer who's looking to get into Haskell from a less-pure/CT background. At least for me personally, [], (, a), and (-> a) were the three that helped me to start to understand when I was getting started years ago |
| 15:29:20 | <jkaye> | But everyone is different, which makes it really hard :) |
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| 15:31:12 | <gehmehgeh> | Sqaure: but don't forget to tell them that Strings in Haskell are linked lists |
| 15:31:17 | <kuribas> | I doubt there are many people getting into haskell from a CT background. |
| 15:31:50 | <hippoid> | I'm starting to use haskell language server with vim, and installed it through https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim. The binary coc.nvim uses is haskell-language-server-wrapper, and not haskell-language-server. What is the point of haskell-language-server-wrapper? |
| 15:32:22 | <c_wraith> | I think the biggest problem with the idea of saying "This is what a monoid is" is that... no one cares. |
| 15:32:53 | <c_wraith> | It's a lot better to say "here is what we can do by abstracting over all Monoid instances" |
| 15:33:52 | <kritzefitz> | hippoid: The "haskell-language-server" binary is compiled to work with exactly one GHC version. "haskell-language-server-wrapper" can detect what version of GHC you're using for a given project and select the correct "haskell-language-server" for the circumstances. |
| 15:33:54 | <Sqaure> | What does CT mean? |
| 15:34:17 | <c_wraith> | category theory |
| 15:34:22 | <Sqaure> | ah |
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| 15:34:50 | <hippoid> | kritzefitz: ok, that makes sense! |
| 15:35:24 | <jkaye> | kuribas, I tend to agree |
| 15:35:57 | <Sqaure> | c_wraith, do you have some examples of "what we can do abstracting of all Monoid instances"? |
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| 15:39:11 | <kuribas> | I don't see much CT in haskell, besides lens and recursion-schemes. |
| 15:39:21 | <c_wraith> | Sqaure: the finger tree paper had a lot of really interesting ways to use abstracting over monoids - https://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~ross/papers/FingerTree.html |
| 15:39:23 | <kuribas> | And those examples aren't very compelling. |
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| 15:41:23 | <hippoid> | when I run haskell-language-server-wrapper in my project root (created through stack), I get a message "no hie.yaml" found, and then errors related to "Could not load module...". Which is odd because I have those modules specified in my cabal file. What am i missing here? |
| 15:49:54 | <boxscape_> | is there a function `IO () -> String` that lets me capture the terminal output of an IO action? |
| 15:50:05 | <boxscape_> | IO () -> IO String I suppose, actually |
| 15:50:17 | <kuribas> | boxscape_: standard output? |
| 15:50:32 | <boxscape_> | if that's a clarifying question, yes |
| 15:50:37 | <kuribas> | or stdout and stderr? |
| 15:50:45 | <boxscape_> | I'd be happy with either one |
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| 15:53:12 | <hippoid> | hippoid: the answer is somewhere here: https://github.com/haskell/hie-bios |
| 15:53:41 | <kuribas> | boxscape_: can't you read from the stdout handle as a file? |
| 15:53:55 | <boxscape_> | hmm maybe? I'm not sure how to do that |
| 15:53:57 | <boxscape_> | oh just |
| 15:54:02 | <boxscape_> | hReadFile stdout? |
| 15:54:33 | <kuribas> | yeah |
| 15:54:42 | <boxscape_> | I'll try it |
| 15:54:55 | <kritzefitz> | I don't think that works. "stdout" is usually opened write-only. |
| 15:55:16 | <sm> | here are some good ones: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typed-process-0.2.7.0/docs/System-Process-Typed.html#v:readProcess |
| 15:55:28 | <boxscape_> | % hGetContents stdout |
| 15:55:28 | <yahb> | boxscape_: *** Exception: <stdout>: hGetContents: illegal operation (handle is not open for reading) |
| 15:55:41 | <kuribas> | kritzefitz: you need to redirect it first then? |
| 15:55:53 | <boxscape_> | apparently you can do that with hDuplicateTo |
| 15:57:39 | <boxscape_> | can I create a handle I can write to and read from without creating a file? |
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| 15:58:38 | <kritzefitz> | `hDuplicateTo` sounds promising. But I think to use it oyu would either have to create a temporary file or a pipe. |
| 15:58:46 | <boxscape_> | ok |
| 15:59:43 | <boxscape_> | where do I have to look for pipes? |
| 16:00:17 | <boxscape_> | though I guess openTempFile sounds easy enough to use |
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| 16:00:58 | <kritzefitz> | System.Process has createPipe. |
| 16:01:07 | <boxscape_> | ah, thanks |
| 16:01:48 | <kuribas> | maybe there is something easier in turtle. |
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| 16:02:23 | <boxscape_> | hm, could be |
| 16:02:41 | <boxscape_> | anyway, gotta go, thanks for your help |
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| 16:04:14 | <geekosaur> | missed them. what they're looking for is not easily possible in general |
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| 16:08:39 | <kuribas> | geekosaur: how so? |
| 16:09:23 | <kuribas> | because you cannot distinguis which output comes from the action, and which from other places? |
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| 16:10:15 | <c_wraith> | because an arbitrary IO action might change stdout arbitrarily |
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| 16:18:05 | <geekosaur> | aqnd because stdout may be buffered inside the RTS |
| 16:19:17 | <c_wraith> | you could work around that, as long as you're not in a concurrent environment, with a couple extra flushes. |
| 16:19:28 | <c_wraith> | but there is also the concurrent environment obstacle |
| 16:19:38 | <geekosaur> | yeh |
| 16:20:01 | <geekosaur> | there's also switching between a Handle and an Fd which the RTS makes difficult at best |
| 16:20:48 | <geekosaur> | [18 15:53:41] <kuribas> boxscape_: can't you read from the stdout handle as a file? |
| 16:21:00 | <geekosaur> | this assumes stdout is somehow a box of some kind, which it's not |
| 16:21:53 | <geekosaur> | but may lead to surprises if you attempt it, since if stdout happens to be a terminal then reading from it will work (!) but it'll behave like stdin, not stdout |
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| 16:24:16 | <geekosaur> | uh |
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| 16:27:55 | <chddr> | Hi guys, I have a quick question. Is there a way to get around lifting every time you perform IO action in a type like StateT St IO? |
| 16:28:28 | <dmj`> | chddr: not really |
| 16:28:29 | <geekosaur> | there is an alternative base that wraps all IO actions in liftIO for you, but in general no |
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| 16:28:52 | <chddr> | Aww, that's a shame |
| 16:29:26 | <chddr> | What's the reason for it being possible with other monads, but not with IO? |
| 16:30:19 | <geekosaur> | because the basic IO operations have to be available without other monads being involved and without requiring liftIO being linked in |
| 16:30:45 | <geekosaur> | in particular liftIO requires the lifting mechanism that comes along with those other monads |
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| 16:32:04 | <geekosaur> | there are some other places this bites, like you can't have an openFile that does something other than throwing an exception if it can't be opened because that machinery also comes with the other monads |
| 16:32:27 | <geekosaur> | and we need base to be as small as possible because it's firmly linked to the compiler and can't be upgraded independently |
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| 16:33:10 | <yushyin> | you also would need to lift other monads in other transformers oO |
| 16:33:11 | <geekosaur> | (there is some work on improving this situation but there aren't enough people who can work on ghc and lots of things people would *like* to see) |
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| 16:35:23 | <chddr> | geekosaur: thanks! |
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| 16:44:09 | <boxscape_> | > <geekosaur> missed them. -- I read it anyway, thanks |
| 16:44:10 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘<’ |
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| 16:44:19 | <boxscape_> | (whoops I should know that by now) |
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| 16:46:14 | <boxscape_> | finally my urge to check the logs if I log off right after being involved in a discussion has paid off |
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| 16:47:33 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I do that too :) |
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| 16:47:44 | <boxscape_> | :) |
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| 17:46:45 | <oats> | what's going on when ghci only shows me the type of an expression, and not the value itself? |
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| 17:47:10 | <oats> | https://paste.xinu.at/kS0Uply/png |
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| 17:47:11 | <oats> | like so |
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| 17:50:20 | <oats> | oh I'm a moron, I didn't derive Show |
| 17:50:36 | <oats> | it's been a few fortnights since I wrote haskell :P |
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| 18:20:14 | <tomsmeding> | oats: my ghci doesn't do that, it just throws an error saying there's no Show instance. Is that plain ghci or something else? |
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| 18:20:42 | <tomsmeding> | (and if you don't know, does it also work for 'id'?) |
| 18:20:56 | <oats> | it's ghci as presented by haskell-interactive-mode |
| 18:20:57 | <oats> | in emacs |
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| 18:24:23 | <tomsmeding> | oats: okay I'm still curious. Does it also work for 'id'? |
| 18:24:37 | <oats> | λ> id |
| 18:24:37 | <oats> | id :: a -> a |
| 18:24:40 | <oats> | like that? |
| 18:24:43 | <tomsmeding> | right, it does |
| 18:24:58 | <tomsmeding> | lambdabot has a hack that works somewhat |
| 18:25:07 | <tomsmeding> | @let data A = A |
| 18:25:08 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 18:25:09 | <tomsmeding> | > A |
| 18:25:10 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 18:25:10 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Show A) |
| 18:25:11 | <lambdabot> | arising from a use of ‘show_M27471050533053244898’ |
| 18:25:15 | <tomsmeding> | oh |
| 18:25:26 | <tomsmeding> | oh wait |
| 18:25:30 | <tomsmeding> | > (id :: Int -> Int) |
| 18:25:31 | <lambdabot> | <Int -> Int> |
| 18:25:33 | <tomsmeding> | > id |
| 18:25:34 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 18:25:35 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Typeable a0) |
| 18:25:35 | <lambdabot> | arising from a use of ‘show_M49566813558932193897’ |
| 18:25:37 | <tomsmeding> | this thing |
| 18:25:39 | <oats> | interesting |
| 18:25:54 | <tomsmeding> | it has 'instance (Typeable a, Typeable b) => Show (a -> b)' |
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| 18:26:04 | <tomsmeding> | but that doesn't work for polymorphic functions :) |
| 18:26:18 | <tomsmeding> | but evidently emacs does something on the meta level |
| 18:26:56 | <boxscape_> | it always displays the type, so really, it just doesn't display the error message in those cases where there's no Show instance |
| 18:27:14 | <boxscape_> | % :set +t -- a bit like this |
| 18:27:14 | <yahb> | boxscape_: Some flags have not been recognized: --, a, bit, like, this |
| 18:27:18 | <boxscape_> | okay well |
| 18:27:21 | <boxscape_> | % :set +t |
| 18:27:21 | <yahb> | boxscape_: |
| 18:27:23 | <boxscape_> | % id |
| 18:27:24 | <yahb> | boxscape_: ; <interactive>:45:1: error:; * No instance for (Show (a0 -> a0)) arising from a use of `print'; (maybe you haven't applied a function to enough arguments?); * In a stmt of an interactive GHCi command: print it |
| 18:27:30 | <boxscape_> | bad example |
| 18:27:38 | <boxscape_> | % [1,2,3] |
| 18:27:38 | <yahb> | boxscape_: [1,2,3]; it :: Num a => [a] |
| 18:27:43 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 18:28:52 | <tomsmeding> | makes me think of 0:43 in this https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat |
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| 19:02:02 | <sm> | dsal I see you're hacking your car with haskell now! |
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| 19:04:02 | <monochrom> | Onoes, GC will pause your control :) |
| 19:04:37 | <monochrom> | But lazy evaluation will ensure that the engine doesn't start and waste fuel until you step on the throttle >:) |
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| 19:06:08 | <maerwald> | thunk buildup in the engine? |
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| 19:49:22 | truckasaurus | is now known as albethere |
| 19:49:40 | albethere | is now known as truckasaurus |
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| 19:51:27 | <turco32> | hi all |
| 19:51:40 | <Hecate> | hi turco32 |
| 19:51:46 | <turco32> | hows it going? |
| 19:51:56 | <turco32> | new haskell programming here |
| 19:52:02 | <turco32> | *programmer |
| 19:52:11 | <turco32> | well kinda newish to programming in general |
| 19:52:23 | <boxscape_> | welcome |
| 19:52:23 | <turco32> | lol |
| 19:52:48 | <turco32> | thanks :). i was on the slack channel but it runs a bit slow on my raspberry pi so i thought id check out if there was an IRC channel |
| 19:52:55 | <turco32> | runs alot better on here |
| 19:53:00 | <boxscape_> | nice |
| 19:53:10 | <turco32> | yeah ghci works great on here as well |
| 19:53:31 | <turco32> | got ghci + emacs on one monitor and haskell programming first principles on another |
| 19:53:47 | <turco32> | rpi 400 has two hdmi outputs |
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| 20:13:38 | <[exa]> | haskell's got a slack channel? wow |
| 20:14:57 | <Hecate> | there is the FP Slack |
| 20:19:52 | <maerwald> | yeah, slack is great to trigger OOM |
| 20:21:10 | <[exa]> | oh yeah |
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| 20:28:05 | <maerwald> | no gifs and nonsense in the chat is a feature :) |
| 20:28:29 | <Rembane_> | +1 |
| 20:28:41 | <Hecate> | nonsense? on IRC? |
| 20:28:43 | <Hecate> | noooo |
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| 20:30:01 | <dsal> | sm: Heh, yeah, it's been pretty helpful actually. |
| 20:34:12 | <shapr> | dsal: wait, really? car hacking with Haskell? |
| 20:34:53 | <shapr> | obd2? |
| 20:34:57 | <dsal> | shapr: Nah, just the tesla API. I use it for monitoring and stuff. |
| 20:35:03 | <shapr> | oh |
| 20:35:06 | <dsal> | But apparently the actual tesla car code is haskell. |
| 20:35:19 | <shapr> | wow |
| 20:35:22 | <dsal> | † |
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| 20:35:42 | <dsal> | It writes out C code that the thing actually runs. |
| 20:35:50 | <tomsmeding> | phew |
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| 20:36:41 | <shapr> | haskell is gaseous real time |
| 20:36:54 | <shapr> | you've heard of hard real time, and soft real time ... |
| 20:37:01 | <dsal> | haha |
| 20:37:34 | <APic> | Stuffs can also just sublimate |
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| 20:42:28 | <sm> | is there no stopping him... |
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| 20:46:16 | monochrom | does not have a lot of confidence in "vapour real time", sounds like vapourware... |
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| 20:46:48 | <monochrom> | However, "fuming real time" sounds impressive :) |
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| 21:24:34 | <turco32> | "my car runs haskell, whats your car run? python?" |
| 21:24:56 | <turco32> | or better yet, BASIC |
| 21:25:05 | <turco32> | loaded with GOTOs |
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| 21:25:33 | <turco32> | or get a really old car that runs fortran or cobol |
| 21:25:34 | <geekosaur> | don't laugh, I once worked with a hard realtime BASIC |
| 21:25:47 | <geekosaur> | it didn't do GOTO though |
| 21:25:51 | <maerwald> | cars run C |
| 21:26:00 | <turco32> | yeah lol i was joking |
| 21:26:12 | <maerwald> | even batteries do |
| 21:26:31 | <turco32> | BBC BASIC actually discourgaes using GOTOs |
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| 21:27:03 | <maerwald> | and usually built with verified compilers (although verified here doesn't mean formally verified) |
| 21:28:01 | <turco32> | your telling me GCC ain't good enough? |
| 21:28:02 | <turco32> | :P |
| 21:28:20 | <maerwald> | gcc 3.4 or so, because getting a new version verifed costs a lot of money |
| 21:28:27 | <turco32> | oh shit really |
| 21:28:38 | <Hecate> | in MISRA C ofc |
| 21:28:44 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 21:28:54 | <turco32> | what version of C does 3.4 reconize? |
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| 21:29:26 | <turco32> | 99? 90? |
| 21:29:49 | <turco32> | 90 aka "K&R" |
| 21:30:15 | <maerwald> | although trains already run C++ and other crap |
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| 21:30:42 | <geekosaur> | probably on windows 3.1 :þ |
| 21:30:56 | <turco32> | haha |
| 21:31:01 | <gehmehgeh> | didn't British submarines have Windows 3.11? |
| 21:31:13 | <turco32> | trains running on system V |
| 21:31:18 | <gehmehgeh> | hmm, maybe they've upgraded that |
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| 21:31:54 | <turco32> | at least they can play dos games while under the atlantic ocean |
| 21:32:26 | <gehmehgeh> | dosbox? |
| 21:32:28 | <gehmehgeh> | :D |
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| 21:32:48 | <turco32> | haha |
| 21:33:30 | <gehmehgeh> | ah, it's Windows XP https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a19061/britains-doomsday-subs-run-windows-xp/ |
| 21:33:36 | <gehmehgeh> | it least it was in 2016 |
| 21:33:41 | <gehmehgeh> | according to that article |
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| 21:52:45 | <janus> | @hoogle segv |
| 21:52:45 | <lambdabot> | System.Posix.Signals sigSEGV :: CInt |
| 21:52:45 | <lambdabot> | Graphics.Gloss.Geometry.Line intersectSegVertLine :: Point -> Point -> Float -> Maybe Point |
| 21:52:45 | <lambdabot> | Graphics.Gloss.Geometry.Line intersectSegVertSeg :: Point -> Point -> Float -> Float -> Float -> Maybe Point |
| 21:53:11 | <janus> | DemiMarieObenour: you can find segfault under that name: sigsegv |
| 21:54:36 | <DemiMarieObenour> | janus: thanks! |
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| 22:04:01 | <Sqaure> | just playing with Alternative here. "some" and "many". That is "some :: Alternative f => f a -> f [a]". Why doesnt "some (Just 1)" return in repl? |
| 22:05:09 | <monochrom> | It goes in a pretty strict infinite loop. |
| 22:05:25 | <geekosaur> | some and many are really intended for parsers and won't do what you expect otherwise |
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| 22:06:17 | <Sqaure> | ah ok |
| 22:06:24 | <geekosaur> | that is, it expects f to be some kind of parser and will loop as long as f a doesn't fail. for something like (Just 1) it will always succeed, so it will loop forever |
| 22:06:44 | <Sqaure> | gotcha |
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| 22:10:48 | <kronicmage> | hey guys, does Numeric.Natural behave differently in interpreted vs compiled? |
| 22:11:07 | <kronicmage> | i'm working with really big natural numbers, and it seems like my code is not correct when compiled, but correct when interpreted |
| 22:11:21 | <kronicmage> | a lot of numbers end up somewhere close to 2^64 instead of the actual value they're supposed to take |
| 22:11:24 | <kronicmage> | how can i fix this? |
| 22:12:29 | <[exa]> | any chance to get a minimal broken example, or does this trigger randomly in some large codebase? |
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| 22:13:20 | <kronicmage> | gimme a second |
| 22:13:28 | <kronicmage> | i'm on haskell 9.0.1, if that helps |
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| 22:16:19 | <[exa]> | kronicmage: btw what does "really big" mean precisely? below 2^64 and it underflows to larger numbers, or way over 2^64 and it computes wrong? |
| 22:16:22 | <kronicmage> | huh, i switched to ghc 8.x with lts 18.10 and the issue disappeared |
| 22:16:56 | <kronicmage> | way over 2^64 computed wrong |
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| 22:17:41 | <maerwald> | kronicmage: do you know about https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2021-March/133540.html |
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| 22:17:55 | <maerwald> | I'm not sure that has anything to do with it |
| 22:18:17 | <Guest|61> | Hello friends, I am trying to install Haskell from https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ and the "first steps" are failing to work. I am a bit lost. Is this a place I can find help? |
| 22:18:30 | <maerwald> | Guest|61: what is failing? |
| 22:19:32 | × | myShoggoth quits (~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:19:49 | <Guest|61> | i went to https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/getting-started.html and tried to create my first haskell app with cabal, but I did not have cabal. so I installed cabal with apt-get but my cabal is not working |
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| 22:20:07 | <maerwald> | Guest|61: cabal should be installed by ghcup already |
| 22:20:19 | <sclv> | use a pastebin to past the error |
| 22:20:20 | <maerwald> | did you run 'source ~/.ghcup/env' in your environment? |
| 22:20:29 | <kronicmage> | maerwald: yes, that's exactly it! fromIntegral is used in the code that's incorrect |
| 22:20:45 | <Guest|61> | i just followed the curl instructions :-) |
| 22:20:56 | <maerwald> | the curl instructions install cabal |
| 22:21:06 | <maerwald> | if you can't run cabal you didn't follow the last instructions |
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| 22:21:20 | <Guest|61> | the last instructions? |
| 22:21:23 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 22:21:34 | <sclv> | source ~/.ghcup/env |
| 22:21:44 | <Guest|61> | doh! |
| 22:21:46 | <Guest|61> | oh no |
| 22:21:51 | <Guest|61> | thank you |
| 22:22:07 | <Guest|61> | i hope i didn't mess things up by apt-get installing cabal |
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| 22:22:20 | <hpc> | you can apt autoremove it |
| 22:22:35 | <Guest|61> | ok thx |
| 22:22:40 | <hpc> | you definitely don't want to be mixing from multiple sources |
| 22:22:56 | <Guest|61> | i will go follow the last instruction after i autoremove cabal |
| 22:22:57 | <hpc> | at best, it's almost impossible to keep track of |
| 22:23:04 | <Guest|61> | yikes |
| 22:23:16 | <Guest|61> | i am total haskell noob |
| 22:23:21 | <monochrom> | You should apt-get remove. Unless you want to confuse yourself. |
| 22:23:30 | <Guest|61> | ok |
| 22:23:34 | <Guest|61> | thank you |
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| 22:23:59 | <hpc> | autoremove gets dependencies too |
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| 22:24:09 | <hpc> | so like if you install cabal you get ghc, then remove cabal and still have ghc |
| 22:24:23 | <monochrom> | remove gets dependencies too. |
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| 22:24:33 | <hpc> | oh, neat |
| 22:24:40 | <hpc> | maybe i am mixing up yum's behavior then |
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| 22:25:09 | <Guest|61> | i sudo apt-get removed cabal-install (same thing I had installed) |
| 22:25:09 | <monochrom> | But it is safe to do both. |
| 22:25:32 | <Guest|61> | now I go and follow the last instruction, so I have to reboot |
| 22:25:34 | <Guest|61> | thank you |
| 22:25:37 | <Guest|61> | bye for now |
| 22:25:45 | <maerwald> | reboot? :o |
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| 22:26:03 | <Guest|61> | "restart terminal for changes to take effect" |
| 22:26:11 | <maerwald> | just your terminal |
| 22:26:14 | <maerwald> | not your computer |
| 22:26:17 | <Guest|61> | ha ha |
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| 22:26:19 | <Guest|61> | ok |
| 22:27:00 | <hpc> | yeah, it just needs to run through the bashrc and whatnot so that source line gets executed |
| 22:27:06 | <maerwald> | is "terminal" really so ambiguous? |
| 22:27:07 | <hpc> | or you can run it yourself |
| 22:27:58 | <monochrom> | maerwald: Is it true that the script adds "source ~/.ghcup/env" to .bashrc, so that launching a new shell is enough? |
| 22:28:07 | <hpc> | maerwald: you never know |
| 22:28:15 | <hpc> | once i tried to install nodejs and ran out of ink in my teletype |
| 22:28:20 | <maerwald> | monochrom: if it can figure out your default shell, yes |
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| 22:28:32 | <monochrom> | OK then no worries. |
| 22:28:46 | <Guest|61> | success!!!!!! |
| 22:28:58 | <Guest|61> | Hello, Haskell |
| 22:28:58 | <maerwald> | so, now `cabal init` should work |
| 22:29:11 | <monochrom> | You know, it's a mess either way. |
| 22:29:29 | <Guest|61> | thanks everybody I am abstracting away now |
| 22:29:33 | <maerwald> | lol |
| 22:29:46 | <Guest|61> | beta reducing like no tomorrow |
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| 22:29:59 | <Guest|61> | many thanks |
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| 22:30:50 | <monochrom> | So suppose the PATH setting is not done in .profile. Then suppose I'm on ubuntu and I'm on the graphical desktop and I launch emacs by clicking the button (no terminal, no .bashrc) and inside that emacs instance I launch haskell-mode etc. Then its PATH does not have the desired setting. |
| 22:31:31 | <monochrom> | Conversely, if the setting is done in .profile but not in .bashrc. Then one needs to at least logout and re-login. |
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| 22:32:05 | <monochrom> | Now, add systemd's "user session" thingy to the picture. Then even logout and re-login may be insufficient. |
| 22:32:17 | <monochrom> | (The "user session" refuses to die.) |
| 22:32:30 | <monochrom> | (I learned it the hard way before.) |
| 22:32:36 | <hpc> | ghcup should just patch the kernel to add the right environment variables to every process |
| 22:32:43 | <monochrom> | :) |
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| 22:33:42 | <monochrom> | Life was simpler when it was DOS. |
| 22:34:12 | <maerwald> | yeah, changing env vars in windows is more seamless indeed |
| 22:34:12 | <geekosaur> | we just need someone to port plan 9's #e filesystem to linux :þ |
| 22:34:19 | <monochrom> | And you could set date by hand upon bootup to circumvent shareware expiration. |
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| 22:41:32 | <maerwald> | geekosaur: Harendra from streamly could do it, he worked on filesystem afair |
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| 22:42:21 | <geekosaur> | sadly that wasn't serious. too many programs assume the environment only needs to be read once at startup |
| 22:42:30 | <maerwald> | WAFL |
| 22:42:44 | <maerwald> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_Anywhere_File_Layout |
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| 23:08:40 | <lbseale> | I am trying to add a custom hlint rule for function that's not in base (Data.Map.Strict.fromList), but hlint isn't catching it. It's being used with a qualified import ... does anyone know why this wouldn't work? |
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| 23:28:02 | <oats> | are there any good learning resources out there for how to factor recursion out of a function? I've got a recursive function in which I reckon there's a fold or something hiding, but I can't prove it yet |
| 23:28:26 | <Hecate> | oats: you need to practice folds |
| 23:28:37 | <Hecate> | the more you do, the more you recognise patterns to which folds apply |
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| 23:32:22 | <monochrom> | The resources are organized as "this is a tutorial on list's foldr specifically" "this is a tutorial on list's map specifically", etc. As opposed to "this is a one-stop shop for all common recursions". |
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| 23:34:27 | <monochrom> | Actually I lied, there is a one-stop shop, it's an academic paper called "banana, barbed wires, ...", and it is not easy to read, and it goes overboard, today most Haskellers aren't interested. |
| 23:34:34 | <oats> | oh shit, it's actually an unfold |
| 23:34:49 | <oats> | no wonder it was sus :P |
| 23:39:32 | <lbseale> | Update: we figured it out. We needed to add it as a warning in a group, following the patterns in https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/blob/v2.1.11/data/hlint.yaml |
| 23:41:49 | <lbseale> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/0FpSc3oc |
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| 23:50:21 | <oats> | https://github.com/oatberry/aoc2020-haskell/commit/d24e072a564512520c9d7334e4210a77dd6ae7eb |
| 23:50:36 | <oats> | some may say, unreadable :P |
| 23:51:20 | <dsal> | sum.unFoldr sounds like a hylomorphism. |
| 23:52:25 | × | hippoid quits (~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 23:54:54 | <oats> | that's the first I've seen that term |
| 23:55:05 | <dsal> | @package recursion-schemes |
| 23:55:05 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/recursion-schemes |
| 23:55:24 | <dsal> | There's your "how do I refactor all recursion out of everything" thing. :) |
| 23:55:36 | <oats> | hah, thanks :) |
| 23:56:02 | <dsal> | I just used regular `fold` when I did that one. |
| 23:56:33 | <oats> | dsal, AoC? is your solution up anywhere? |
| 23:56:40 | → | hippoid joins (~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:57:09 | <dsal> | I've got a helper library with some common stuff like grid parsing, but this is my day 3: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/pBTpHp1C/day3.hs |
| 23:57:59 | × | yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-35-209.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2021-11-18.