Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2021-11-27 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:00:11 <dsal> I'm using stack on nix on M1. If it builds for me, it should build for anyone.
00:00:36 <arahael> Which llvm version?
00:00:53 <dsal> no clue. heh
00:01:00 <arahael> I'm using clang --version: Apple clang version 13.0.0 (clang-1300.0.29.3)
00:01:35 <dsal> something between stack and nix figure that out for me.
00:01:43 <[itchyjunk]> oh i see the typo
00:01:47 <[itchyjunk]> it also compiles
00:01:49 <[itchyjunk]> wth?
00:02:03 <dsal> I get all these cool errors, though: sqlite-simple > 'apple-a7' is not a recognized processor for this target (ignoring processor)
00:02:08 <arahael> It's out of stack's hands. Might be nix, but I thought nix on macos defers to the system xcode because of apple's shenagins.
00:02:08 <[itchyjunk]> it doesnt compile after i fix the typo
00:02:10 <[itchyjunk]> lmfao
00:02:32 <dsal> arahael: It might. *shrug* I just bang on keyboard until it stops fighting back.
00:03:20 <arahael> dsal: I'd be very interested to find out, because whilst i do actually have nix installed, I'm generally currently avoiding nix as I find it's sometimes more trouble than it's worth imho in my case. (Especially as most of the time, I'm actually doing iOS dev).
00:03:29 <arahael> dsal: And that iOS dev means I tend to be always on the very very latest. :(
00:03:56 <dsal> I don't think I'm behind on anything in particular. I like my edges bloody.
00:04:00 <arahael> dsal: If you can enter a nix-shell for that project, then type 'clang --version', that would be illuminating.
00:04:48 <arahael> dsal: The other problem with nix is that it does not implement --pure on macos. :(
00:05:09 <arahael> (So it's difficult to tell if your nix build really is correct or if you're still missing something. :( )
00:05:11 <dsal> I don't even use nix shells... stack manages that. I actually have no clue how all those pieces work.
00:05:16 <arahael> Ah.
00:05:31 <arahael> Yeah, for me... I started stripping out stack when stack basically fell apart for me.
00:06:00 <arahael> stack and nix seems to have a fairly convoluted history for me, especially on nixos.
00:06:08 <dsal> I never managed to get a project migrated away from stack because every time I try something annoying gets in the way. I never remember what, so I try again thinking it's going to be easy, but then I don't manage to finish.
00:06:31 <dsal> Sure, stack and nix and macos should be the hardest thing to get working, but I am trapped in here.
00:09:48 <arahael> It does feel that way. :(
00:14:21 <[itchyjunk]> this does what i want other than adding an extra space at the end :(
00:14:22 <[itchyjunk]> https://bpa.st/WFKA
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00:15:04 <dsal> @src intercalate
00:15:04 <lambdabot> intercalate xs xss = concat (intersperse xs xss)
00:15:19 <dsal> There, now you're smarter. heh
00:15:22 <dsal> @src intersperse
00:15:22 <lambdabot> intersperse _ [] = []
00:15:22 <lambdabot> intersperse _ [x] = [x]
00:15:22 <lambdabot> intersperse sep (x:xs) = x : sep : intersperse sep xs
00:15:31 <[itchyjunk]> i knew concat was a keyword, i tried using that and got in trouble
00:15:31 <dsal> Yeah, that makes sense.
00:15:37 <dsal> It's not a keyword.
00:15:44 <[itchyjunk]> hmm
00:15:48 <dsal> :t concat
00:15:49 <lambdabot> Foldable t => t [a] -> [a]
00:15:59 <dsal> It's just a function. A less generic fold.
00:16:00 <dsal> :t fold
00:16:01 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m
00:16:17 <[itchyjunk]> oh yeah i guess keyword is the wrong term
00:16:20 <[itchyjunk]> reverved word?
00:16:23 <dsal> nope
00:16:27 <dsal> It's just a function
00:16:31 <dsal> from a library
00:16:35 <[itchyjunk]> what do you call it when a string is already taken?
00:16:41 <geekosaur> just a convenient predefined function
00:16:46 <[itchyjunk]> "concat" is already taken
00:16:48 <dsal> a namespace collision?
00:16:50 <[itchyjunk]> just like "if"
00:16:55 <[itchyjunk]> hmmm
00:16:55 <dsal> if is a reserved word
00:17:01 <geekosaur> if is a keyword. concat is a predefined function
00:17:26 <[itchyjunk]> i didn't realize reserved word and namespace collision weren't more or less the same.
00:17:32 <geekosaur> you can redefine it in your code if you don't want the original (or are okay with saying Prelude.concat)
00:17:36 <[itchyjunk]> i guess reserved word is stronger condition
00:17:37 <dsal> > let concat x = "with cat" in concat ["this", "list", "of", "things"]
00:17:39 <lambdabot> "with cat"
00:18:14 <geekosaur> you can't redefine "if" in the same way
00:18:16 <[itchyjunk]> ah i can override inbuilt (?) functions
00:18:21 <[itchyjunk]> right, makes sense
00:18:34 <dsal> It's just a library function. Much less special than you think. :)
00:18:42 <[itchyjunk]> i think i'll count my solution as valid (even though it has that extra " " at the end)
00:18:47 <dsal> Prelude dumps a bunch of those into your namespace by default.
00:18:51 <geekosaur> Haskell provides a bunch of predefined functions in the Prelude
00:18:55 <dsal> Did you see what intersperse does?
00:19:20 <[itchyjunk]> i didn't understand it :s
00:19:43 <dsal> Well, the important part is that it just has an extra special case which you're missing.
00:20:16 <dsal> > intercalate "," (words "insert commas here")
00:20:17 <lambdabot> "insert,commas,here"
00:20:38 <dsal> It avoids the one on the end by special case.
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00:21:29 <[itchyjunk]> ah
00:23:38 <[itchyjunk]> i too inspiration from it and added a special case
00:23:45 <[itchyjunk]> concatation (x:[]) = x
00:23:56 <[itchyjunk]> hurrah! \o/
00:23:58 <dsal> (x:[]) == [x]
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00:25:18 <[itchyjunk]> hmm
00:25:52 <dsal> > (x:[])
00:25:53 <lambdabot> [x]
00:25:56 <[itchyjunk]> right, its saying if the list only has 1 element left, don't add " " to it
00:26:00 <dsal> lambdabot agrees.
00:26:12 <[itchyjunk]> i agree too, i think
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00:30:18 <zero> when to go for haskell vs for idris?
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00:51:37 <EvanR> zero, haskell, probably xD
00:53:01 <EvanR> so record fields get used in 4 ways all of which are affected by extensions... fields generate field selector functions for getting, fields are used in initial record construction, fields are used in pattern matching, and fields are used in update syntax
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00:53:23 <EvanR> what was the good, the bad, and the very bad wrt Wildcards again xD
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00:59:16 <EvanR> because it seems pretty spiffy on construction
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01:02:23 <geekosaur> dminuoso didn't like its use in patterns because it'[s unhygienic, but liked use in construction
01:03:04 <geekosaur> (and I couldn't find that in scrollback because I spelled "unhygienic" correctly…)
01:03:41 <EvanR> what does that mean again
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01:04:40 <geekosaur> (silently) pollutes the namespace
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01:05:39 <monochrom> Consider foo Sum{..} = getSum + 1
01:06:19 <EvanR> oh yeah, that's weird
01:06:38 <EvanR> now I feel bad using in construction again
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01:06:58 <geekosaur> construction is fine, the namespace it would be "polluting" is that of fields
01:07:09 <geekosaur> it's when it pollutes the bindings namespace that things get weird
01:07:55 <geekosaur> that is, you still control the bindings during construction. wildcards *consume* part of your namespace in oatterns
01:08:04 <geekosaur> *patterns
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01:13:04 <geekosaur> moreover, almost always your pattern in construction is something like let {field1 = …; field2 = …; …} in Record(..) (or where equivalent) so you can see which names are in use. with pattern wildcards you have to go hunt down the data definition to see what it's shoving into your bindings
01:14:04 <geekosaur> granting that a good editor/IDE would let you mouseover the wildcard and see that, you shouldn't need to
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01:16:06 <EvanR> yeah, since the bindings originate at that spot but aren't visible anywhere close sucks
01:16:24 <EvanR> unlike e.g. imports which originate at the import itself
01:16:35 <ozzloy> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/NC7mkLIe how do i do multiple clauses in a helper function defined in a where clause?
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01:16:55 <ozzloy> line 18 shows the error i'm getting
01:17:16 <EvanR> helper 0 _:_ _ = Nothing
01:17:20 <EvanR> you need parens around _:_
01:17:25 <geekosaur> your problem is you're missing parentheses around :
01:17:36 <ozzloy> ah
01:17:41 <geekosaur> so it thinks you're defining : and helper is a syntax error
01:17:57 <geekosaur> same thing on the next line also
01:18:31 <ozzloy> oh, also the code is wrong
01:18:41 <ozzloy> thanks for the help
01:18:47 <ozzloy> geekosaur, and EvanR
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01:19:11 <ozzloy> i basically coded up takeMaybe instead of split
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01:21:27 <EvanR> split is a good one
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01:30:27 <ozzloy> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/rsu9GWol now i'm trying to construct an infinite type?
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01:31:27 <ozzloy> i want to grab the first list out of accumulator, and make a new accumulator that has x at the front of that list, then put that new list and the remaining lists from the original accumulator into the accumulator for the next recursion
01:31:51 <EvanR> elper 0 (x:xs) (a:as) = helper n xs ([x]:as) looks suspicious
01:31:58 <dsal> infinite type is suggesting you're trying to have a type that's an `a` and a `[a]` at the same time
01:31:58 <EvanR> are you sure you don't mean (x:as)
01:32:16 <EvanR> where x is an item, as is a list
01:32:27 <ozzloy> oh, yeah, i actually just changed that one
01:32:42 <ozzloy> er...
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01:33:20 <ozzloy> so line 16, i want to create a new list
01:33:27 <ozzloy> in the accumulator
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01:34:07 <ozzloy> the accumulator is a list of lists... so i think when n is 0, but there are still more elements in x, that means start a new inner list in the list of lists
01:34:14 <ozzloy> maybe that's off-by-one?
01:34:30 <dsal> Off by one won't give you a type error.
01:35:03 <ozzloy> true, i agree. i was thinking maybe there was also a semantic error
01:35:08 <EvanR> you start a new list regardless it looks like
01:35:12 <EvanR> on 15 and 16
01:35:23 <EvanR> maybe you want to append to the list on 15
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01:35:30 <ozzloy> oh, i should renew the code
01:36:18 <ozzloy> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/LbovQ5hn
01:36:25 <ozzloy> still infinite type error
01:36:31 <ozzloy> i'm asking something to be a and [a]
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01:37:06 <EvanR> what I was talking about is still there on 15 and 16
01:37:45 <EvanR> as appears to be full of singleton lists xD
01:37:50 <ozzloy> ah, then that must be what i'm not understanding!
01:38:10 <dsal> (a:as) is taking an `a` out of a list of `as` and you're later doing `([x:a]:as)` which makes a new list that includes `a` and putting it in `as`.
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01:38:54 <dsal> > let f (x:xs) = [x]:xs in f "not possible"
01:38:56 <lambdabot> error:
01:38:58 <lambdabot> • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a ~ [a]
01:39:00 <lambdabot> Expected type: [[a]]
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01:40:09 <EvanR> specifically make sure you know what [x:a]:as means before you insist on trying it xD
01:40:26 <ozzloy> so ... i'd like for the accumulator to be a list of lists. i'd like to grab the first of those inner lists and cons x onto it, then make a new accumulator that is a list with members including that newly created list, and all the other lists the accumulator used to have
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01:40:50 <EvanR> to cons use :
01:41:01 <EvanR> to make a singleton list of x, use [x]
01:41:05 <EvanR> or x:[]
01:41:27 <dsal> > ['a',b']:[]
01:41:29 <lambdabot> error:
01:41:29 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: b' :: Char
01:41:29 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
01:41:37 <dsal> > ['a','b']:[]
01:41:38 <lambdabot> ["ab"]
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01:42:18 <dsal> chars always muddy the water... But when you do that, you're making each element in the list be a list.
01:42:31 <EvanR> > [0:[1,2]]:[[3,4,5], [6,7,8]] -- this what you're trying to do right now it seems
01:42:32 <lambdabot> error:
01:42:32 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [Integer])
01:42:32 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘e_1012345678’
01:42:34 <ozzloy> so for line 15
01:42:53 <EvanR> it's wrong but don't worry about the reason lambdabot gave xD
01:43:03 <EvanR> numbers can't be lists normally
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01:43:24 <ozzloy> my intent is: x is a single element, a is the first list in the list of lists
01:43:31 <EvanR> yeah I got that
01:43:36 <ozzloy> xs is all the remaining elements
01:43:38 <EvanR> I just don't wanna solve it for you xD
01:43:46 <ozzloy> that makes sense
01:44:09 <ozzloy> hopefully i can explain what i'm thinking and maybe it's just a syntactical thing
01:44:19 <EvanR> yeah sounds like it
01:44:23 <ozzloy> or maybe it's a thinking error
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01:44:35 <EvanR> no you just typed the wrong code xD
01:44:41 <ozzloy> ...
01:45:01 <dsal> `([x:a]:as)` is kind of weird. If you read what that does, you might realize it's probably not what you meat.
01:45:09 <EvanR> on 15 you introduced a new set of [ ]
01:45:16 <EvanR> inappropriate
01:45:26 <dsal> NSFW
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01:46:24 <ozzloy> ok, let's say x = 1, a = 2, as = [3,4]. does ([x:a]:as) = [1,2,3,4]?
01:46:35 <EvanR> now a is not a list
01:46:35 <dsal> ask lambdabot
01:46:41 <EvanR> you can't cons onto it
01:46:46 <ozzloy> i know, i'm asking about the syntax
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01:46:50 <ozzloy> oh right
01:46:59 <dsal> > let x = 1; a = 2; as = [3,4] in ([x:a]:as)
01:47:00 <lambdabot> error:
01:47:00 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [[Integer]]) arising from a use of ‘e_11234’
01:47:01 <lambdabot> • In the expression: e_11234
01:47:06 <dsal> well, nevermind. Don't ask lambdabot
01:47:15 <EvanR> yeah, shut up lambdabot
01:47:20 <EvanR> sorry lambdabot
01:47:23 <EvanR> @botsnack
01:47:23 <lambdabot> :)
01:47:27 <ozzloy> ok, so let's say x = 1, a = [], as = [3,4], does ([x:a]:as) = [1,3,4] ?
01:47:47 <ozzloy> > let x = 1; a = []; as = [3,4] in ([x:a]:as)
01:47:48 <lambdabot> error:
01:47:48 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [[Integer]]) arising from a use of ‘e_1134’
01:47:48 <lambdabot> • In the expression: e_1134
01:47:54 <EvanR> work it out yourself
01:48:18 <EvanR> [x:a]:as ===> [[1]]:as
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01:48:20 <EvanR> etc
01:48:22 <dsal> What type is [x:a] ?
01:49:09 <ozzloy> if x = 1, a = [], then [x:a] = [[1]], so list of list of int... so i have extraneous []?
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01:49:27 <EvanR> [[1]] won't fit into [3,4]
01:49:33 <EvanR> not a number
01:49:36 <dsal> You've gone too far.
01:49:53 <dsal> What's the easiest way to shed the extra [ and ] ?
01:49:55 <ozzloy> ok, so now i have ((x:a):as) and it type checks
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01:50:04 <dsal> You don't need those parens, but yeah.
01:50:15 <EvanR> > 0:1:2:3:4:[]
01:50:16 <lambdabot> [0,1,2,3,4]
01:50:34 <ozzloy> but i want accumulator to be a list of lists of integers
01:50:48 <EvanR> your example didn't have that
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01:51:43 <EvanR> or in the words of linus torvalds, if it compiles, ship it (paraphrased)
01:51:44 <ozzloy> sorry, i should have been more clear earlier when i was giving values to x, a, and as. i was asking syntax questions, not specifically about x, a, and as in the problem
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01:52:07 <ozzloy> for the problem, i expect x to be an integer, a to be a list of integers, and as to be a list of lists of integers
01:52:20 <dsal> OK, then try it that way. :)
01:53:03 <EvanR> write down every expression in sight with the type you think it has, then verify
01:53:11 <ozzloy> so i want x:a to be a list of integers, and to put that list of integers onto as.
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01:54:07 <ozzloy> > let x = 1; a = []; as = [] in x:a:as
01:54:08 <lambdabot> error:
01:54:08 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [()]) arising from a use of ‘e_11’
01:54:08 <lambdabot> • In the expression: e_11
01:54:12 <EvanR> bzzz
01:54:28 <hololeap> % :i (:)
01:54:28 <yahb> hololeap: type [] :: * -> *; data [] a = ... | a : [a]; -- Defined in `GHC.Types'; infixr 5 :
01:54:45 <EvanR> your x:a:as was parsed as x:(a:as)
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01:54:47 <dsal> My irc client rendered that code with a giant red box with an A on it.
01:54:58 <ozzloy> > let x = 1; a = []; as = [] in (x:a):as
01:54:59 <lambdabot> [[1]]
01:55:05 <EvanR> \o/
01:55:16 <ozzloy> great
01:55:21 <hololeap> that infixr 5 means (:) is right-associative
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01:55:34 <hololeap> so a:b:c == a:(b:c)
01:55:34 <ozzloy> so ... what are the words i could have searched that pertain to this?
01:56:09 <EvanR> just trying stuff like let x = 1; a = []; as = [] in (x:a):as in ghci helps me at least
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01:56:21 <EvanR> sanity checks
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01:56:42 <hololeap> hm, associativity of infix operators?
01:56:55 <ozzloy> i feel like "figure it out" doesn't really apply here. the syntax for expressing that idea _could_ have been different. how would i reason my way to figuring it out?
01:56:59 <hololeap> and how to check them using ghci
01:57:09 <hololeap> that's one thing you could search for
01:57:10 <EvanR> the precedence of : didn't really come up until the very end
01:57:16 <EvanR> the first issue was putting too many [ ]
01:57:29 <dsal> ozzloy: It helps to have an understanding of the infinite type error. It's not the most user friendly thing because what it means and what causes it are often seemingly unrelated.
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01:58:14 <EvanR> "infinite type error" does lead you to stuff you can technically read xD
01:58:26 <ozzloy> it also sounds neat
01:58:33 <EvanR> it's pretty neat
01:58:34 <dsal> Yeah, a lot of the results seem to be "you probably just made this mistake"
01:58:46 <ozzloy> "what are you working on?" "oh, just got an infinite type error. nothing i can't handle."
01:58:56 <dsal> > let f (x:xs) = [x]:xs in f "not possible" -- this is a simple case
01:58:57 ozzloy puts on sunglasses
01:58:58 <lambdabot> error:
01:58:58 <lambdabot> • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a ~ [a]
01:58:58 <lambdabot> Expected type: [[a]]
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01:59:14 <EvanR> it's an infinite type error because the type checker saw you tried to put [a] into itself
01:59:26 <EvanR> kind of like "put bag in bag" in old MUD servers
01:59:32 <EvanR> which potentially crashes the server
01:59:45 <dsal> GHC is just a mud server with that bug fixed.
01:59:49 <EvanR> ^
02:00:04 <dsal> Nobody's ever thinking type theory when they write that bug, though.
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02:00:32 <EvanR> a = [a] = [[a]] = [[[a]]] = ...
02:00:38 <EvanR> wall of mirrors
02:00:55 <dsal> It's usually making a type that recurses on itself infinitely like your list, or leaving off a function argument or something.
02:01:21 <dsal> "You made a dumb mistake, but I'll try to make you sound smart with this error." -- GHC
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02:11:17 <Square> Anyone got a good approach removing unused imports from a semi large project?
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02:24:55 <dsal> Turn on warnings and put on a movie.
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02:30:07 <EvanR> isn't that something handled by an IDE?
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02:35:08 <Square> EvanR, idk really know how well my vscode + haskell-language-server setup is, but if the function is there. Its well hidden
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02:37:07 <hololeap> it underlines the unused imports as a warning in my IDE, but it might be because I have ghc-options: -Wall in my cabal file
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02:39:52 <hololeap> there is also -Wunused-packages, although it seems a bit unreliable
02:40:54 <hololeap> it seems like it will spit out a different list of unused packages at different times during the compilation process
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02:43:06 <hololeap> that particular warning has no location info so you only see it when you build your project
02:45:56 <hololeap> it would be cool if it gave location info inside your .cabal file, but alas
02:46:42 <hololeap> I'm still on GHC 8.10 so I dunno if that's been improved at all
02:48:17 <hololeap> I assume it would require more communication between GHC and cabal to have that kind of functionality
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02:58:57 <hololeap> I've been seeing a lot of these kind of errors as packages work their way toward GHC 9.2. what was the breaking change?
02:59:01 <hololeap> Couldn't match expected type ‘Word#’ with actual type ‘Word16#’
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04:00:06 <Square> hololeap, thanks! When you mentioned the compiler flags i saw that i had suppression on unused imports. When i turned it on VSCode would show me all unused and shave them by file.
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04:20:43 <hololeap> np
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04:31:25 <EvanR> is there special magic required to use type applications in a pattern other than TypeApplications ?
04:31:37 <EvanR> it keeps telling me Expression syntax in pattern
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05:06:17 <superstar64> Where can I learn about least / greatest fixed points?
05:06:39 <superstar64> I've tried looking at https://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/papers/free-rectypes/free-rectypes.txt but it's a bit too category theory heavy for me at the moment.
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05:13:43 <c_wraith> fixed points are more part of domain theory
05:14:00 <c_wraith> at least in this context
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05:16:19 <hololeap> superstar64: section 24.1 in milewski's category theory for programmers goes into it a bit
05:16:50 <hololeap> and very briefly in 24.6
05:16:57 <superstar64> thanks, i've been meaning to finish that book
05:17:40 <hololeap> but it doesn't really go into what least vs greatest fixed point means
05:18:11 <superstar64> c_wraith, any resources on domain theory then?
05:18:26 <superstar64> at least things usable from the functional programming prospective.
05:18:36 <hololeap> > The initial algebra is the so called least fixed point, and the terminal coalgebra is the greatest fixed point. In Haskell, though, both are defined by the same formula, and they coincide.
05:20:28 <c_wraith> superstar64: https://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~pszgmh/domains.html
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05:33:06 <hololeap> really, anything beyond Data.Fix isn't relevant to functional programming, AFAIK
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05:33:42 <hololeap> but catamorphisms/anamorphisms are a useful abstraction
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05:34:19 <hololeap> generalized folds/unfolds
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05:35:44 <hololeap> they let you reason about a recursive data structures at a single level of recursion
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05:41:40 <monochrom> haha scott domain = "a c3po"
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05:42:07 hololeap wonders if there is any recursive data structure "larger" than rose trees expressible in haskell
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05:51:15 <c_wraith> hololeap: I'm not sure what you mean by large, there.
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05:51:56 <c_wraith> In another sense of large, you get things like newtype Hyper a b = Hyper (Hyper b a -> b)
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05:56:32 <EvanR> once you include functions it gets... uh large
05:57:02 <EvanR> normally wouldn't think of those as recursive though
05:57:06 <c_wraith> apparently hyperfunctions aren't even a proper set - you need domain theory to model them. though I'm just taking this from the paper
05:58:22 <dolio> You might be able to have them constructively. But classical set theoretic models don't have them.
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05:59:16 <dolio> For instance, there are constructive models where `Hyper Bool Bool` is the natural numbers.
06:00:03 <dolio> Assuming this is some better behaved type theory, not Haskell.
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06:08:16 <hololeap> c_wraith: what I meant was that all other recursive data structures could be expressed as (some form of) rose trees, but I wasn't thinking of structures with sum types
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06:10:03 <hololeap> that Hyper type is interesting, although I don't see a terminal case for its recursion
06:10:27 <EvanR> newtype U = U (U -> U) or something
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06:17:35 <hololeap> at some point, to run the thing, you would need a Hyper b a, but the only way to construct and run that is if you have a Hyper b a. I would guess leveraging laziness comes into play here
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06:18:08 <dolio> You can make a hyperfunction with `const b`.
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06:19:34 <hololeap> right, that makes sense
06:20:38 <hololeap> what is the other type variable for?
06:21:00 <hololeap> oh, because of the flip
06:21:19 <dolio> Yeah, Hyper a b ~ ((Hyper a b -> a) -> b)
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06:33:45 <hololeap> % newtype Hyper a b = Hyper { runHyper :: Hyper b a -> b }
06:33:45 <yahb> hololeap:
06:33:53 <hololeap> % let z = Hyper (const True) in runHyper (Hyper (\(Hyper f) -> f undefined)) z
06:33:54 <yahb> hololeap: True
06:34:06 <hololeap> I am so confused by this thing
06:36:35 <EvanR> my god it's full of lambdas
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06:46:33 <hololeap> % let z = Hyper (const True) in runHyper (Hyper (\(Hyper f) -> f (Hyper (\(Hyper g) -> g (Hyper (\(Hyper _) -> False)))))) z
06:46:33 <yahb> hololeap: True
06:46:41 <hololeap> what is the point of this thing
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06:47:48 <hololeap> % let z = Hyper (const True) in runHyper (Hyper (\(Hyper f) -> f (Hyper (\(Hyper g) -> g undefined)))) z
06:47:49 <yahb> hololeap: True
06:49:12 <hololeap> I guess it could become useful if you add another field to the Hyper constructor
06:50:00 <hololeap> so it carries something other than just more of these bare Hyper functions
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06:51:29 <hololeap> and then you would be getting into "largeness" territory due to the exponential types
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06:57:17 <ozzloy> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2FGxpKiE the prompt says to use map/filter. i'm using it on line 40, but it seems clunky.
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06:57:47 <ozzloy> the prompt also says to use foldr, and i am on line 52, but again, it feels clunky
06:57:50 <EvanR> oh hold on, this was all supposed to be useful? xD
06:58:24 <ozzloy> is there some clever thing i'm missing, or is it just kinda clunky?
06:58:53 <ozzloy> i'm using filter and map to check if all the elements in a list are all the same as each other
06:59:35 <xsperry> ozzloy, I'd use all instead of filter and map
06:59:42 <xsperry> :t all
06:59:43 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool
06:59:43 <ozzloy> by mapping all the elements to whether they're equal to the first element, then filtering
07:00:06 <ozzloy> xsperry, oh cool, sounds good. i'll keep that in mind
07:00:06 <xsperry> > all (==1) [1,1,1]
07:00:07 <EvanR> I mean, you could just filter by (/=x)
07:00:09 <lambdabot> True
07:00:22 <ozzloy> i'm guessing there's a 'some' too?
07:00:26 <EvanR> any
07:00:37 <ozzloy> i was in the middle of typing that out!
07:00:39 <EvanR> > any (==0) [1,1,1]
07:00:40 <lambdabot> False
07:00:57 <ozzloy> EvanR, oooh, i like that (==0)
07:01:06 <ozzloy> i'll use that instead of the lambda
07:01:17 <EvanR> (==x) in your case right
07:01:40 <EvanR> @src all
07:01:40 <lambdabot> all p = and . map p
07:01:56 <ozzloy> what is dot?
07:02:04 <EvanR> :t (.)
07:02:05 <ozzloy> argument-goes-here ?
07:02:05 <lambdabot> (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
07:02:11 <EvanR> function composition
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07:02:20 <ozzloy> ah, like center-dot
07:02:53 <EvanR> f ∘ g like that
07:02:59 <ozzloy> cool
07:03:50 <EvanR> > (∘) = (.) in (and ∘ map (==0)) [1,1,1]
07:03:51 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:5: error: parse error on input ‘=’
07:03:55 <ozzloy> so is there some other way of using map and filter to determine if a list has repeating subsequences, that is more slick than what i'm doing?
07:03:57 <EvanR> > let (∘) = (.) in (and ∘ map (==0)) [1,1,1]
07:03:58 <lambdabot> False
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07:04:14 <EvanR> heh
07:04:22 <EvanR> by slick you mean already implemented for you
07:04:25 <EvanR> yeah
07:04:43 <xsperry> @src and
07:04:43 <lambdabot> and = foldr (&&) True
07:04:49 <EvanR> > group [0,1,2,2,1,0]
07:04:50 <lambdabot> [[0],[1],[2,2],[1],[0]]
07:05:08 <ozzloy> oh interesting
07:05:54 <ozzloy> > group [[1],[1],[2],[2],[2],[3]]
07:05:55 <lambdabot> [[[1],[1]],[[2],[2],[2]],[[3]]]
07:06:24 <ozzloy> > group [[1,2],[1,2],[2],[2],[2],[3]]
07:06:25 <lambdabot> [[[1,2],[1,2]],[[2],[2],[2]],[[3]]]
07:06:31 <ozzloy> ooOOooh
07:06:37 <ozzloy> neat
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07:08:04 <ozzloy> i mean specifically using map and filter, or foldr in isRepeats''
07:08:30 <EvanR> foldr is so general that you probably use it no matter what
07:08:35 <EvanR> on some level
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07:08:54 <EvanR> see the code for `and' up there
07:09:15 <ozzloy> i made a more generic version of it
07:09:28 <EvanR> a ... more generic version of foldr ? xD
07:09:40 <ozzloy> it takes in a function for "head" and "cons" as well
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07:09:57 <EvanR> that doesn't sound right
07:10:03 <EvanR> foldr already does that
07:10:32 <hololeap> foldr has to be implemented like that for any Foldable
07:11:04 <EvanR> :t head
07:11:05 <lambdabot> [a] -> a
07:11:06 <ozzloy> hold on, i'll see if i can find the code. might be better than trying to write it in words
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07:11:39 <hololeap> it sounds like you defined Foldable using functions instead of a typeclass
07:12:13 <hololeap> defined/reinvented
07:12:46 <ozzloy> possibly, that sounds plausible
07:12:56 <ozzloy> so foldr assumes it's working on a list
07:13:06 <ozzloy> (can't find it at the moment)
07:13:17 <jollygood2> :t foldr
07:13:18 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b
07:13:19 <ozzloy> i wrote a version that doesn't assume that
07:13:40 <ozzloy> i see
07:14:05 <ozzloy> Foldable is something that has a "head"-like operation and a "cons"-like operation?
07:14:12 <hololeap> no, it assumes it's working with a Foldable. more accurately, a Foldable is defined by the way it implements foldr
07:14:38 <hololeap> yes, any foldable can be converted to a list, althought not necessarily the other way around
07:14:48 <hololeap> :t toList
07:14:49 <lambdabot> Foldable t => t a -> [a]
07:14:56 <EvanR> head can be defined by foldr
07:14:58 <ozzloy> can a number be converted to a Foldable?
07:15:21 <EvanR> numbers don't have a type parameter
07:15:23 <c_wraith> things aren't converted to Foldable - they either are or aren't
07:15:27 <hololeap> no, it needs a type variable, for one
07:15:31 <c_wraith> Foldable is a class, not a type
07:16:01 <hololeap> it has to be (Something a) to be a Foldle, where it works with any a
07:16:06 <hololeap> *Foldable
07:16:08 <ozzloy> oh, that's interesting, what is the difference in haskell between a class and a type?
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07:16:25 <c_wraith> a class is a set of behaviors a type can have
07:16:26 <EvanR> a type class
07:16:41 <ozzloy> i should say the function i wrote was in scheme, not haskell, so maybe the terms don't quite carry over
07:16:55 <c_wraith> like, the Eq class allows things that implement it to be compared for equality
07:16:56 <ozzloy> i used it to convert a number into a list of 1s and 0s
07:17:44 <ozzloy> so Foldable is a set of behaviors?
07:17:57 <hololeap> really just one
07:18:09 <ozzloy> or rather, a ... specification of the existence of behaviors?
07:18:10 <EvanR> whatever you know about scheme, you can comprehend it in haskell by using a big sum type to represent the scheme values
07:18:35 <EvanR> call it, that scheme over there
07:18:47 <hololeap> if you want to define an instance of Foldable, you have to give it an implementation of foldr
07:19:10 <ozzloy> i see
07:21:30 <ozzloy> so that makes me think of the Enumerable mixin for ruby, where a (ruby) class has to implement #each
07:21:57 <ozzloy> and then can mixin Enumerable, and gets a bunch of behavior defined in terms of #each
07:22:05 <c_wraith> that aspect is similar - you get to implement a couple functions and opt in to a bigger ecosystem from it.
07:22:19 <c_wraith> The way it plays out in a typed language has a lot of differences in details, though
07:22:36 <ozzloy> makes sense
07:22:44 <hololeap> % data TheTwo a = TheTwo { getOne :: a, getTwo :: a }
07:22:44 <yahb> hololeap:
07:22:53 <hololeap> % instance Foldable TheTwo where foldr f b (TheTwo a1 a2) = f a1 (f a2 b)
07:22:54 <yahb> hololeap:
07:23:04 <hololeap> toList (TheTwo 2 3)
07:23:08 <hololeap> % toList (TheTwo 2 3)
07:23:09 <yahb> hololeap: [2,3]
07:23:16 <hololeap> (just a small example)
07:23:50 <hololeap> and I did kind of lie, you can also define a Foldable instance in terms of foldMap. you can choose to define it either way
07:24:22 <hololeap> they are just two different ways of thinking about the same concept
07:24:39 <jollygood2> ozzloy, take Eq as an example, minimal complete definition requires defining either (==) or (/=). so when you make a function Eq a => f :: a -> [a] -> [a], and do f x xs, compiler is implicitly passing (==) and (/=) functions to f for the type of x
07:25:39 <jollygood2> it is basically doing something like this for you: f :: (a -> a -> Bool) -> a -> [a] -> [a]
07:25:47 <EvanR> it's easy to reach for custom type classes too early though
07:26:02 <EvanR> like a replacement for classes, or interfaces from another language
07:26:25 <ozzloy> very much feels like java interfaces, yeah
07:26:39 <EvanR> yeah but its more than that
07:27:15 <c_wraith> The type system details let you say things you can't say in an interface.
07:27:25 <EvanR> you can do interfaces other ways in haskell that may be more convenient
07:27:36 <ozzloy> closer to an abstract class from java, where a bunch of concrete methods are implemented in terms of an abstract method
07:27:59 <ozzloy> yeah, and it sounds like you can add it in after-the-fact
07:28:37 <ozzloy> like after defining the class(what's it called in haskell?) TheTwo
07:28:57 <EvanR> TheTwo is a data type
07:29:06 <ozzloy> then, _after_, you provided a definition of foldr
07:29:18 <EvanR> potentially way after
07:29:24 <ozzloy> that's cool
07:29:38 <EvanR> after TheTwo was finished, compiled, packaged shipped without being Foldable
07:29:52 <EvanR> somebody can ship a Foldable instance separately if necessary
07:30:00 <ozzloy> also, TheTwo was just data, and not also methods thrown in
07:30:10 <ozzloy> i like that
07:30:29 <ozzloy> data is just data, even if it has a shape
07:31:07 <ozzloy> thanks for the firehose to drink from
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07:31:40 <ozzloy> EvanR, hololeap, c_wraith, jollygood2, thanks
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07:36:59 <jollygood2> ozzloy, np
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09:47:31 <tom__> Does it make sense to write a test for each PBT generator to ensure it produces valid output?
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09:52:57 <[exa]> tom__: if the correctness is not obvious from the way the generator is coded, yes
09:53:28 <[exa]> tom__: you may though hit an infinite loop on testing if the correctness test tests the correctness properly, etc
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10:38:30 <Guest17> why does haskell accept `1 : [2, 3]` but not `: 1 [2]` ?
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10:39:06 <Guest17> `: 1 [2, 3]` but you get the point
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10:40:27 <gehmehgeh> Guest17: ":" is an infix operator
10:40:39 <gehmehgeh> try (:) 1 [2,3]
10:40:44 <gehmehgeh> :-)
10:41:04 <gehmehgeh> (if you really want to use it that way)
10:41:21 <Guest17> I know (:) is supposed to work, but I want to know if this is a limitation in the grammar or something else
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10:41:56 <gehmehgeh> No, you use parentheses if you want to employ an infix operator the normal way. You can also use normal functions infix-style
10:41:58 <gehmehgeh> with backtics
10:42:03 <gehmehgeh> 10 `div` 2
10:42:08 <gehmehgeh> instead of: div 10 2
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10:43:09 <[exa]> Guest17: the parentheses are there to turn the operator from a grammatical thing into a normal identifier. E.g. these 2 things do something different: `id (:) [id]`, `id : [id]`
10:43:36 <[exa]> (both have valid semantics)
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10:44:18 <[exa]> to reduce the amount of danger&surprise, it's kinda natural to avoid reinterpreting the binary operator with a missing argument as a function
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10:46:26 <[exa]> example: when parsing `+ 1`, is it a function for incrementing numbers by 1, or did someone forget to write the left argument?
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10:47:57 <Guest17> [exa]: well if someone forgot to write the left argument that would be a type error down the line, I don't really see why that's dangerous or suprising
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10:49:11 <Guest17> I'm asking not to pick on haskell, but I'm laying out a parser for a toy-lang™ and I'm not so sure how to handle infix operators
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10:50:13 <zincy> [exa] Thanks
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10:55:34 <[exa]> Guest17: if you want to support custom operators, the best option is to parse expressions as lists of things first, then run a specialized algorithm for making sense of the priorities
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10:56:26 <[exa]> re the "corner operator", the semantics of the expression would change dramatically if someone would (by error) infer the wrong type, which I don't see as a very welcome behavior but ymmv
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10:56:51 <[exa]> might make better sense elsewhere
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11:00:57 <[exa]> Guest17: example, you have an expression like "f + g h + (c d)", that you parse to something like [f, +, g, h, +, [c, d]]; at that point you are usually able to source the infix declarations from the file, so you can guess which things are operators and which are not, getting something like [f, op +, app g h, op +, app c d], and then you just run the shunting yard alg.
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11:02:07 <Guest17> [exa]: crystal clear!
11:02:50 <Guest17> [exa]: something puzzling me is: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54726221/parsing-custom-infix-operators-implementation-with-fparsec
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11:03:56 <[exa]> nah, parsing is puzzling if you're doing too many things at once
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11:04:18 <Guest17> the OP talked about something like: `takeOpAndOther + x`, how would the Shunting yard algorithm apply here?
11:04:41 <[exa]> the usual way of doign robust parsers of such stuff is to tokenize first, then parse
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11:05:34 <Guest17> I'm doing that, I'm just not sure if I should parse `+` and `add` as identifiers or reserve a `Operator` token
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11:05:45 <[exa]> anyway, this is an ambiguous parse, precisely the reason why we have the parens around (+)
11:06:13 <[exa]> do you allow user-defined operators?
11:06:28 <Guest17> That's what I intend to do yes
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11:06:47 <[exa]> okay, then you first need to know what are all the operators _before_ you are even able to parse this right
11:06:51 <Guest17> it's proving to be a bit paralyzing but I'm interested in implementing it
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11:07:37 <Guest17> [exa]: I suppose I could build a list of declared operators pre-parsing
11:07:44 <[exa]> yes
11:08:12 <[exa]> hm actually let's have a look at how haskells do
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11:08:51 <Guest17> and if I encounter + I treat it as an operator in the SY algorithm otherwise if it's (+) it behaves the same as a normal idnetifier
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11:09:22 <Guest17> [exa]: by all means let's do that x)
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11:13:15 <Guest17> and in terms of the lexer, I could first try recognizing a keyword (`type`), then a normal `abc_123'` identifier, then a reserved operator like `->` and finally a user defined operator
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11:13:34 <[exa]> Guest17: so anyway they have a pretty generous definition of an operator here: https://github.com/ghc/ghc/blob/master/compiler/GHC/Parser/Lexer.x#L182
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11:15:07 <[exa]> and I see the .y file with parser somehow disappeared from ghc 9 :]
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11:16:20 <Guest17> `$unisymbol = \x04 -- Trick Alex into handling Unicode.` is the funniest comment I've seen
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11:16:57 <Hecate> :')
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11:19:15 <[exa]> Guest17: older version of the parser here: https://github.com/ghc/ghc/blob/ghc-8.10/compiler/parser/Parser.y#L3538
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11:21:23 <[exa]> Guest17: and then somewhere around infixexp roughly here https://github.com/ghc/ghc/blob/ghc-8.10/compiler/parser/Parser.y#L2576 you can find that they are parsing basically lists of [exp, op, exp, op, exp, op, ...]
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11:22:12 <boxscape_> [exa] https://github.com/ghc/ghc/blob/master/compiler/GHC/Parser.y
11:22:44 <boxscape_> module names follow modern haskell practice now
11:22:50 <boxscape_> GHC.Parser
11:22:54 <boxscape_> GHC.Parser.Lexer
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11:23:27 <[exa]> o nice thanks
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11:27:12 <Square> can i create Proxy (b a) from Proxy a ?
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11:28:41 <boxscape_> % :t fmap @Proxy
11:28:41 <yahb> boxscape_: (a -> b) -> Proxy a -> Proxy b
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11:29:18 <boxscape_> Square I think you can but why not just create a new Proxy of type `Proxy (b a)`?
11:30:08 <Square> boxscape_, im afraid i dont have "a" available other than as a proxy
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11:30:56 <boxscape_> Square you can probabaly use ScopedTypeVariables to get access to it, and then write `Proxy :: Proxy (b a)` (or `Proxy @(b a)`)
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11:31:46 <boxscape_> % foo :: forall a b . Proxy a -> Proxy (b a); foo Proxy = (Proxy :: Proxy (b a))
11:31:46 <yahb> boxscape_:
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11:33:40 <[exa]> Guest17: the parser code there is complicated so I didn't find the priority-solving part yet, maybe someone other will know
11:34:21 <Guest17> [exa]: as far as I know its handled through infix statements yes?
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11:34:31 <[exa]> likely
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11:36:53 <Square> boxscape_, thanks for the advice! Appreciated
11:37:01 <boxscape_> np
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13:08:19 <zzz> for the past few year i've been learning haskell on my spare time and enjoying it with the help of books and this channel alone to the point of being very productive with it. you guy are awesome, thank you
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13:09:51 <zzz> my 's' key is failing me today but you get the point
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13:11:06 <Axman6> that must uck zzz :)
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13:12:08 <zzz> it' very trful
13:12:53 <zzz> *treful. oh no...
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14:27:43 <L29Ah> is there a public service or a script that i can utilize to check whether my haskell projects build against the latest libs' releases?
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14:29:15 <fendor[m]> Can I avoid using 'makeLens' without writing it myself? E.g. Can I achieve the same as 'makeLens' without TH and not writing it myself? Or is this eating my cake and having it too?
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14:33:59 <[exa]> L29Ah: if the thing is on hackage, you can have a look at the build matrix which is there for this purpose
14:34:09 <Rembane_> fendor[m]: There are generics, I have never tried them myself though: https://github.com/kcsongor/generic-lens
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14:34:51 <[exa]> L29Ah: other than that I'm not sure but you might be happy with just having a CI on github that triggers regularly and tries it.
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14:36:12 <[exa]> wow, generic-lens claims almost zero overhead, good
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14:37:29 <Rembane_> I haven't really thought about it, but what's the overhead of the other approaches?
14:37:50 <kennyd> oh, 9.2 became stable! that's the Record Dot Syntax release, isn't it
14:38:04 <geekosaur> yes
14:38:35 <fendor[m]> Rembane_: Template Haskell? It affects recompilation checks
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14:40:33 <Rembane_> fendor[m]: It does indeed. Everything is always recompiled. :/
14:41:07 <fendor[m]> yeah, it sucks a bit.
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14:46:20 <L29Ah> [exa]: is it possible to subscribe to failures or no-ip?
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15:13:58 <Axman6> fendor[m]: I disconnected for a bit, but did anyone suggest generic-lens?
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15:14:25 <fendor[m]> Axman6: Yep, Rembane did
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15:15:42 <Axman6> great
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16:12:08 <iphy> where are the new yaml files for stack? https://github.com/commercialhaskell/lts-haskell only goes up to 14.27
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16:18:53 <zzz> "in the beginning, the universe and record syntax were created. this had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move"
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16:20:06 <Rembane_> zzz: What's the source of that quote? :)
16:20:16 <zzz> Haskeller's Guide to the GHC?
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16:22:34 <zzz> (it's the opening of The Restaurant at the End of the Universe (the 2nd book in hitchiker's guide to the galaxy), i just added record syntax)
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17:15:54 <janus> iphy: they were moved to a repo that contains both lts and nightly
17:16:06 <janus> iphy: you can find it in the same org. if you can't find it, let me know
17:16:17 <iphy> ah
17:16:24 <iphy> janus: thanks
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17:16:39 <iphy> yup, found it: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/commercialhaskell/stackage-snapshots/master/lts/17/2.yaml
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17:20:27 <EvanR> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/pEkhiK4j
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17:23:06 <dsal> When someone asks if you're a god, you say yes.
17:23:14 fjmorazan_ is now known as fjmorazan
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17:27:48 <janus> god is not great enough, needs to be capitalized :P
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17:31:25 <dsal> Depends on whether we're talking about what type of person EvanR is, or whether it's just a value judgment.
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17:31:44 <EvanR> no I agree with dsal
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18:02:08 <mjrosenb> has anyone been able to get stack traces with ghjcs? I've added some HasCallStack contexts, but I'm not seeing anything in the error messages.
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18:33:14 <EvanR> Ah whitespace mattering in haskell (t':ts) vs (t ': ts)
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18:34:21 <Rembane_> EvanR: Didn't GHC like your new and fancy operator?
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18:44:52 <hpc> you can name operators with '?
18:45:47 <hpc> or just a typo?
18:45:54 <Rembane_> hpc: Nope, I was wrong. It becomes a syntax error.
18:46:56 <int-e> :t Proxy :: Proxy ('() ': '[])
18:46:57 <lambdabot> Proxy '['()]
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18:47:24 <Rembane_> Is that a type level list?
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18:47:48 <int-e> yes
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18:48:53 <EvanR> t':ts it thinks t' is a variable, I think
18:49:57 <EvanR> the poor lexer
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18:51:33 <int-e> :t Proxy :: Proxy ('True':'[])
18:51:34 <lambdabot> error:
18:51:34 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor ‘True'’
18:51:34 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant ‘True’ (imported from Data.Bool)
18:51:46 <int-e> :t Proxy :: Proxy ('True ': '[])
18:51:47 <lambdabot> Proxy '[ 'True]
18:51:50 <int-e> unsurprising
18:52:20 <awpr> another reason for https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20531
18:52:38 <awpr> no single quote = no whitespace weirdness
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18:53:38 <int-e> 't' might also be a character literal, hmm
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18:54:42 <EvanR> oh jeez
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19:11:27 <EvanR> awpr, wow... I don't even need the ' xD
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19:22:38 <EvanR> is there something like a kind synonym
19:23:23 <EvanR> or is the type synonym syntax supposed to work for that
19:23:52 <geekosaur> type synonyms should work but you may need an extension
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19:26:35 <hskpractice> when i build with stack i want to somehow inline a few text files that are basically non-code libraries, so that i don't have to ship with those libraries, but just have one self-contained binary. am i thinking about it in the wrong way?
19:26:43 <hskpractice> any idea on how i would accomplish that?
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19:27:04 <EvanR> I tried to establish a sort of schema for a record like type X = [("symbol", Float)]
19:27:13 <EvanR> it complains that "symbol" is a Symbol not a *
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19:28:04 <awpr> :kind! (,)
19:28:17 <awpr> > :kind! (,)
19:28:18 <geekosaur> % :kind! (,)
19:28:18 <yahb> geekosaur: * -> * -> *; = (,)
19:28:19 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
19:28:27 <EvanR> oh dang
19:28:52 <awpr> that one would actually need a quote, since a promoted tuple is different from the type of tuples
19:28:54 <EvanR> how is that working then... I'm using a pair of Symbol and * in the implementation of the record
19:29:15 <geekosaur> % :set -XPolyKinds
19:29:16 <yahb> geekosaur:
19:29:23 <geekosaur> % :kind! (,)
19:29:23 <yahb> geekosaur: * -> * -> *; = (,)
19:29:27 <geekosaur> feh
19:29:39 <awpr> % :kind! '(,
19:29:39 <yahb> awpr: ; <interactive>:1:4: error: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
19:29:40 <awpr> % :kind! '(,)
19:29:41 <yahb> awpr: a -> b -> (a, b); = '(,)
19:29:54 <EvanR> ah it was the quote... and maybe also polykinds
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19:33:58 <hpc> why is yahb formatting it like that?
19:35:03 <hpc> oh, normalized type
19:36:48 <EvanR> :kind (,)
19:36:55 <EvanR> i see
19:37:08 <sm> hskpractice: file-embed package ?
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19:41:54 <geekosaur> I think LB only understands it as :k and doesn't support :k!
19:41:58 <geekosaur> :k (,)
19:41:59 <lambdabot> * -> * -> *
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20:28:53 <hololeap> /usr/lib64/x86_64-linux-ghc-9.2.1/libHSnetwork-uri-2.6.4.1-LtJsElfesy1349BRswtapk-ghc9.2.1.so
20:29:04 <hololeap> anyone know what the string LtJsElfesy1349BRswtapk is?
20:29:13 <geekosaur> ABI hash
20:29:25 <hololeap> oh, how does that get calculated?
20:29:31 <geekosaur> ghc computes it during compilation
20:30:31 <geekosaur> it also includes things like compile options that can change generated object code or inlineable source in the .hi file, since that also produces binary incompatibility between builds
20:30:39 <hololeap> I'm running into something where it changes depending on whether or not --enable-tests is turned on
20:31:12 <geekosaur> @where paste
20:31:12 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
20:31:18 <geekosaur> show your cabal file?
20:31:41 <geekosaur> (and/or stack.yaml if applicable)
20:32:14 <hololeap> so in gentoo, all the dependency resolution is through the package manager. sometimes you get circular dependencies with the tests and the only way to break them is to compile a package with tests off, finish compiling the other packages, then go back and turn tests on for the first package if you want
20:32:30 <EvanR> this is funny, type F a = G X a won't let me use F unapplied but type F = G X will
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20:32:40 <hololeap> this changes that ABI hash, and so you then have to recompile the reverse-dependencies of that package
20:33:28 <geekosaur> that implies the tests do something like "ghc-options: -O0" or some other flag that affects the shared library ABI
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20:33:52 <hololeap> I'll look into it, but I think the only difference is --enable-tests or not
20:34:25 <geekosaur> although sometimes cabal flips a flag that it thinks won't affect the ABI but does (use -v3 during the build, then ask in #hackage)
20:34:48 <hololeap> so yeah, I'd like to figure out how to toggle tests and keep that ABI hash from changing. anyway, thanks for telling me the name of it
20:35:06 <geekosaur> this is I think still shaking down because ghc has a ridiculous number of options and figuring out which ones affect shlib ABI is painful
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20:35:59 <geekosaur> also sometimes ghc thinks one flag affects ABI when it doesn't, and hashes it inappropriately. but --enable-tests is not passed to ghc as such
20:36:44 <geekosaur> so cabal is changing some option, which is why you need to compare cabal -v3 output to see what ghc-passed flags change with --enable-tests
20:37:10 <hololeap> ok
20:37:21 <hololeap> thanks
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20:37:42 <geekosaur> then you ask in #hackage, and they may redirect you to #ghc
20:37:57 <geekosaur> (#hackage being where the cabal devs hang out)
20:38:16 <hololeap> cool
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20:46:58 <sclv> my guess is enable tests or not calculates a different build plan if there’s test deps not in the main lib
20:47:13 <sclv> so eg a different version of bytestring is picked
20:47:28 <sclv> all of which is correct and as designed
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21:03:43 <smunix> hey, is anyone else having troubles accessing github here?
21:04:36 <yushyin> https://www.githubstatus.com/
21:04:55 <smunix> yeah, just saw it too. It's currently down
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21:13:24 <EvanR> yep
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21:15:45 <EvanR> code only a haskeller could love, what I came up with to make sure I don't put the wrong thing in the wrong field, i.e. show the field name even though it's unnecessary https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Unv4xE8D
21:15:45 <yin> after cabal init, where do i put my persnal modules? ./app/MyModule/MyMdule.hs ?
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21:20:26 <yushyin> yin: depends on the cabal file, but usually ./src/ for the lib and ./app/ for the executable. Check the hs-source-dirs fields in your cabal file
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21:21:33 <yin> i mean extra modules i want to import in my Main.hs
21:22:28 <yin> cabal init created ./app/Main.hs
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21:25:41 <yushyin> then under ./app/ is ok, but as said, you can check it when you are in cabal. hs-source-dirs is the field that sets the source directories. https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.6/cabal-package.html?highlight=hs-source-dirs#pkg-field-hs-source-dirs
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21:26:13 <yushyin> check it in your cabal file*
21:26:46 <EvanR> there's a funny pattern where your entire program is implemented as a library in src/ and Main.hs is your only app/ file, and it boots the lib xD
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21:27:53 <geekosaur> which is useful when you want a test suite that tests your app's logic, since it can't load your Main but has access to the library
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21:28:46 <hpc> or just in general
21:29:04 <hpc> imagine a stack/cabal situation where you're enhancing an existing utility, and you don't want to have to rewrite the whole thing yourself
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21:29:50 <int-e> this happened to ghci I believe
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21:30:14 <int-e> (which only recently became packaged as a library so the amount of code that people have to copy is signficantly reduced)
21:30:24 <yin> i'll be back with questions. the docs are confusing me, need t reread them
21:31:31 <int-e> fsvo "recently"... did it happen with ghc-8.0?
21:32:52 <hpc> sometimes i still think ghc 7 is recent :P
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22:10:40 <oats> is there no "not" combinator in megaparsec
22:12:35 <dsal> What do you mean?
22:12:38 <monochrom> notFollowedBy comes as close to "not" as sensible in parsing.
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22:14:42 <oats> mm, thanks
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22:16:10 <monochrom> This is where theoretical education helps debunk certain intuitions.
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22:16:46 <oats> how so? notFollowedBy seems to do what I had in mind
22:17:13 <monochrom> "not" looks intuitive because the complement of a regular language is still a regular language, and the complement of a decidable language is still a decidable language.
22:17:46 <monochrom> But the complement of a context-free language is usually not a context-free language. "not" is nonsense in CFG parsing.
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22:18:18 <monochrom> Clearly puny humans take inspirations from a few regexes and decidable languages only.
22:18:21 <oats> huh, I did not realize that
22:18:32 <monochrom> And just think it generalizes.
22:18:34 <oats> I need better familiarize myself with The Hierarchy
22:19:20 <hpc> while you're at it, put context-sensitive languages on that list
22:19:26 <hpc> not for any practical reason, it's just neat :P
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22:20:45 <oats> I'm excited to recognize some of these words though, I'm currently taking a discrete math class
22:21:16 <oats> we just finished up regular languages, NFAs, and have touched on decidability
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