Logs on 2021-12-04 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:28:28 | <yin> | what is this error: https://paste.jrvieira.com/1638577678818 ? |
| 00:29:32 | <mrianbloom> | Random question: does anyone know how to create a top level FFI declaration using ghc-source-gen, I just spent an hour looking through the docs and I can't figure it out. |
| 00:30:30 | <boxscape_> | yin you've enabled OverloadedLists and it doesn't know what kind of list it's supposed to be using |
| 00:30:38 | <boxscape_> | one solution is to add a type signature |
| 00:30:50 | <dsal> | Oh, OverloadedLists occasionally makes something better. |
| 00:30:58 | <dsal> | It often makes things worse. |
| 00:31:19 | <yin> | add a type signature to what? |
| 00:31:23 | <yin> | :t '0' |
| 00:31:24 | <lambdabot> | Char |
| 00:31:38 | <dsal> | What's the [] part? |
| 00:31:46 | <dsal> | That's what it's complaining about. |
| 00:31:57 | <boxscape_> | to the list, so (∈ (['0','1'] :: [Char])) or similar |
| 00:32:02 | <yin> | ah! i forgot i was using OverloadedLists |
| 00:32:08 | yin | facepalms |
| 00:32:24 | <dsal> | % :t ['x'] |
| 00:32:25 | <yahb> | dsal: (IsList l, Item l ~ Char) => l |
| 00:32:25 | <boxscape_> | yin if you're using a plain old list you can also write "01" instead of ['0', '1'] |
| 00:33:46 | <dsal> | % [1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,7,7] :: S.Set |
| 00:33:47 | <yahb> | dsal: ; <interactive>:6:30: error:; * Expecting one more argument to `S.Set'; Expected a type, but `S.Set' has kind `* -> *'; * In an expression type signature: S.Set; In the expression: [1, 2, 2, 3, ....] :: S.Set; In an equation for `it': it = [1, 2, 2, ....] :: S.Set |
| 00:33:51 | <dsal> | % [1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,7,7] :: S.Set Int |
| 00:33:51 | <yahb> | dsal: fromList [1,2,3,4,5,6,7] |
| 00:34:04 | <dsal> | Rarely worth it for me. |
| 00:35:11 | <boxscape_> | I imagine it's especially annoying that you can't do something like `traverse_ print [1,2,3]` anymore |
| 00:38:28 | <yin> | boxscape_: i'm als using OverloadedStrings :D |
| 00:38:46 | <boxscape_> | yin that on the other hand is quite useful imo |
| 00:38:54 | <yin> | yes |
| 00:39:03 | <geekosaur> | but OverloadedStrings won't cause a problem there I think |
| 00:39:13 | <geekosaur> | because only one type will make sense |
| 00:39:27 | <boxscape_> | hmm i'm not sure |
| 00:39:35 | <dsal> | If you didn't have overloaded strings, the "01" thing would be unambiguous. |
| 00:40:00 | <boxscape_> | geekosaur I think it just knows that it must be a Foldable Stringy type |
| 00:40:34 | <boxscape_> | there could be more than one type fulfilling that |
| 00:41:18 | <geekosaur> | mm, but won't Foldable default to [], thus forcing String? |
| 00:41:25 | <geekosaur> | hm, only in ghci I guess |
| 00:41:28 | <boxscape_> | yeah |
| 00:41:45 | <boxscape_> | and the instance is defined as `a ~ Char => IsString [a]`, so it can't infer from Char either |
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| 00:51:54 | <yin> | sorry i had to get away for a bit. i actually previously had "01" and it was ambiguous, it told me something alnog the lines of "there are 3 possible candidates: String and two other types that are out of scope" |
| 00:52:35 | <yin> | i know Text but what's the other? |
| 00:53:32 | <geekosaur> | there's still a bad ByteString instance iirc |
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| 00:54:18 | <yin> | a *bad* ByteString? |
| 00:54:19 | <geekosaur> | (bad because it only works for a tiny subset of Chars, it loses data otherwise) |
| 00:54:43 | <yin> | ah |
| 00:55:00 | <yin> | i'm guessing "01" |
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| 00:55:08 | <geekosaur> | that one would be fine |
| 00:55:30 | <geekosaur> | any Char > \255 it would truncate |
| 00:55:53 | <yin> | h right, ByteStrings are 8bit |
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| 00:56:55 | <yin> | i feel it shouldn't be this much of a pain to work with binary in haskell |
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| 00:57:49 | <yin> | where's BitString? |
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| 00:58:35 | <hpc> | it should really be Word8String |
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| 00:59:12 | <hpc> | (also yeah, is that Char truncate behavior ever useful?) |
| 00:59:34 | <geekosaur> | there's some BitVector types out there |
| 00:59:51 | <geekosaur> | I continue to be surprised vector doesn't provide a packed Bool Vector type |
| 01:00:21 | <yin> | why packed, say I? |
| 01:00:27 | <yin> | >:) |
| 01:00:33 | <geekosaur> | becuase that'd beyour bitstring |
| 01:00:54 | <geekosaur> | recall that an unpacked Bool is 64 bits |
| 01:01:09 | <geekosaur> | of which 1 is used |
| 01:01:14 | <yin> | well yeah, in _practice_ |
| 01:01:24 | <yin> | noone cares about practice |
| 01:02:03 | <geekosaur> | and I think even in 9.2's new sized stuff it's still 8 bits |
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| 01:02:47 | <yin> | what changed in 9.2? |
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| 01:02:52 | <yin> | i'm out of the loop |
| 01:04:30 | <kennyd> | @pl (\x -> printf "%2d. %s\n" x (fizzbuzz x)) |
| 01:04:30 | <lambdabot> | ap (printf "%2d. %s\n") fizzbuzz |
| 01:04:33 | <kennyd> | how does that shit work? |
| 01:04:52 | <geekosaur> | instead of always using a machine word (64 bits) it now uses an appropriate size for the type |
| 01:05:28 | <yin> | oh nice! finally |
| 01:05:36 | <geekosaur> | so Char uses 32 bits since it's a Unicode codepoint, Bool uses 8 bits as the smallest memory value available, Int32 is actually 32 bits, etc. |
| 01:05:41 | <yin> | i still want 1bit bits :p |
| 01:06:22 | <geekosaur> | someone bring back KL10s :þ |
| 01:06:58 | <geekosaur> | although that still wouldn't work because I think the smallest it got was 3 bits |
| 01:07:38 | <yin> | kennyd: |
| 01:07:41 | <yin> | :t ap |
| 01:07:42 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b |
| 01:07:45 | <geekosaur> | and that onlyt for registers; memory was 36 bits |
| 01:08:33 | geekosaur | wonders if that translation would actualy work given that printf is rather "special" |
| 01:08:54 | <geekosaur> | and @pl has no clue about PrintfType |
| 01:09:46 | <geekosaur> | also @pl is out of date |
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| 01:09:52 | <geekosaur> | :t (<*>) |
| 01:09:53 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
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| 01:18:18 | <monochrom> | Yeah, @pl was written way before Applicative existed. |
| 01:18:51 | <monochrom> | Plus other minor issues such as it doesn't check types. |
| 01:19:08 | <monochrom> | @pl \x -> x x |
| 01:19:09 | <lambdabot> | join id |
| 01:19:11 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 01:20:09 | <monochrom> | "wont fix" :) |
| 01:20:11 | <boxscape_> | :t join id |
| 01:20:12 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 01:20:12 | <lambdabot> | • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m ~ (->) (m a) |
| 01:20:12 | <lambdabot> | Expected type: m (m a) |
| 01:20:57 | <int-e> | @pl (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x) |
| 01:21:00 | <lambdabot> | ap id id (ap id id) |
| 01:21:00 | <lambdabot> | optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. |
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| 01:26:31 | <yin> | @pl-resume |
| 01:26:33 | <yin> | ;D |
| 01:26:38 | <lambdabot> | ap id id (ap id id) |
| 01:26:38 | <lambdabot> | optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. |
| 01:27:19 | <monochrom> | It is true to the nature of (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x). |
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| 01:50:05 | <d34df00d> | Hi folks! |
| 01:50:39 | <d34df00d> | I've read a post recently with a mention of a (de)serialization library that's more efficient than both cereal and binary, but I can't remember its name. Does anything come to your (hive)mind? |
| 01:51:01 | <d34df00d> | Here, "its name" is "the library name", not "the post name". |
| 01:58:06 | <d34df00d> | Ah, right, that's fpco's store. |
| 01:58:06 | <d34df00d> | Thanks! |
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| 02:42:51 | <iqubic> | I'm looking to do some ascii art animations for some of my Haskell AoC solutions. What libraries should I look into to do that? |
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| 02:46:22 | <jackdk> | emit \e[2J a lot? |
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| 02:59:45 | <dsal> | That's basically what I did. |
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| 03:01:03 | <dsal> | It looks like I've used this before: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ansi-terminal |
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| 03:14:33 | <yin> | iqubic: JuicyPixels is pretty good for the most basic stuff |
| 03:14:43 | <iqubic> | That's also good. |
| 03:15:27 | <yin> | curses at least |
| 03:15:48 | <yin> | there's a decent vector animation library but i cant remember its name |
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| 03:16:23 | <yin> | why is GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving not allowed in Safe Haskell? |
| 03:16:47 | <boxscape> | jle`: we talked the other day about having a function that can convert any data instance to a String - I have this now, and it works pretty well https://paste.tomsmeding.com/wO8wDWza |
| 03:17:10 | <boxscape> | of course you'd have to special case other primitive types if they're used |
| 03:17:28 | <boxscape> | s/data/Data |
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| 03:45:22 | <hololeap> | is there a way to hook up pretty-show to Debug.Trace |
| 03:45:34 | <hololeap> | with color support |
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| 03:46:03 | <dmj`> | hololeap: now that's a good idae |
| 03:46:05 | <dmj`> | idea |
| 03:46:39 | <dmj`> | traceSolarized |
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| 03:52:37 | <dmj`> | hololeap: if you copy Debug.Trace into its own lib, and sprinkle in System.Console.Rainbow I bet it would work |
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| 03:54:52 | <hololeap> | oh it actually works already! |
| 03:55:02 | <hololeap> | trace (T.unpack $ pShow r) r |
| 03:55:08 | <hololeap> | I actually meant pretty-simple |
| 03:55:32 | <hololeap> | and if anyone wants to try that be aware it's Data.Text.Lazy |
| 03:56:23 | <sm> | hololeap: the utilities in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hledger-lib-1.24/docs/Hledger-Utils-Debug.html do that |
| 03:57:25 | <hololeap> | the devs might be willing to add it to pretty-simple |
| 03:58:00 | <sm> | I don't think debugging helpers really belong in pretty-simple, also I'm not married to that lib (it has a few issues) |
| 03:58:37 | <sm> | I think they'd be great added to Debug.Trace! but not sure how hard that would be |
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| 04:11:22 | <jle`> | boxscape: ah nice :O i think you can do it for anything that resolves down to an ADT, and special casing on string works well too |
| 04:11:34 | <boxscape_> | yeah, that makes sense |
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| 06:42:27 | <sheltheconquerer> | :q |
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| 10:49:39 | <halides> | hi all, doing the mooc at https://haskell.mooc.fi/ and figured i'd join here to ask some noob questions :-) |
| 10:49:57 | <halides> | i guess this is the biggest channel for that? |
| 10:50:09 | <halides> | opqdonut: hi ;-) |
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| 10:52:45 | <Rembane> | halides: Do it! :) |
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| 10:58:55 | <halides> | thanks Rembane :-) |
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| 11:48:10 | <nerdypepper> | is there a "replace range" method on String or Text anywhere? or would such a method be unsound? |
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| 12:03:44 | <geekosaur> | actual "replace" would violate purity, but producing a modified String/Text would be fine |
| 12:04:08 | <geekosaur> | for String it'd just perform poorly because String is [Char] and lists kinda suck |
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| 12:06:20 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.5.0/docs/Data-Text.html#v:replace |
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| 12:55:50 | <pta2002> | Hi, quick question. I have a function a -> Either b a, and I want to make [a] -> Either b [a] from that function, that will return the left side if any of the applications of the first function error out |
| 12:56:08 | <pta2002> | I am sure there's some obvious way to do this, but I can't remember how >< |
| 12:57:50 | <pta2002> | I mean, I can easily do this the long way, just wanted to know if there is some simple function that I can just apply to it |
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| 13:00:45 | <pta2002> | Basically I want (a -> Either b a) -> [a] -> Either b [a], but hoogle finds nothing :( |
| 13:01:13 | <Taneb> | :t traverse |
| 13:01:14 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) |
| 13:01:24 | <pta2002> | hm let me try that |
| 13:01:25 | <Taneb> | :t traverse @[] @(Either _) |
| 13:01:26 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:01:26 | <lambdabot> | Pattern syntax in expression context: traverse@[] |
| 13:01:27 | <lambdabot> | Did you mean to enable TypeApplications? |
| 13:01:34 | <geekosaur> | gotta use yahb |
| 13:01:45 | <Taneb> | I can't remember how to invoke yahb :( |
| 13:01:56 | <geekosaur> | % :t traverse @[] @(Either _) |
| 13:01:57 | <yahb> | geekosaur: (a -> Either w b) -> [a] -> Either w [b] |
| 13:02:02 | <Taneb> | Thanks |
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| 13:03:30 | <pta2002> | hm now it's not working even though by that description it should |
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| 13:03:55 | <pta2002> | hang on i'll figure this out |
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| 13:04:29 | <pta2002> | I have now figured this out, I was missing an argument |
| 13:04:34 | <pta2002> | thanks! |
| 13:04:58 | <Taneb> | Happy to help! |
| 13:05:01 | <pta2002> | also, that :t traverse @[] @(Either _) thing, is that possible to run in GHCi? gives me an error when I try |
| 13:05:21 | <Taneb> | Run ":set -XTypeApplications" in GHCi |
| 13:05:41 | <pta2002> | ah got it |
| 13:05:56 | <geekosaur> | yahb is ghci, it just has a bunch of extensions enabled and is a fairly recent version of ghc |
| 13:06:17 | <geekosaur> | but TypeApplications goes back a bit so version shouldn't matter |
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| 15:53:40 | <__monty__> | I'm having a bit of trouble with ghcid. `cabal v2-repl GiantSquid` fails to load because of errors but `ghcid -c cabal v2-repl GiantSquid` reports "All good." |
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| 16:03:38 | <albet70> | I tried to install scotty on my vps, but my vps only has 1GB RAM, to installl scotty with cabal failed because of compiling is out-of-memory, how to solve that? |
| 16:04:11 | <sclv> | you can give it a ton of virtual memory but it'll crawl |
| 16:04:27 | <sclv> | best to build the binary on a system with the same os and config but with more ram, then copy it over |
| 16:05:17 | <albet70> | that's a vps, how I can give it more virtual memory? |
| 16:05:48 | <albet70> | I don't think I can change the swap partition |
| 16:06:31 | <albet70> | does cabal or other tools provide binary package? |
| 16:06:31 | <int-e> | Compile with -j1, lower optimization level... but you probably don't want the latter and at 1GB the former is not certain to be enough. |
| 16:06:36 | <albet70> | or stack? |
| 16:06:44 | <int-e> | Compiling elsewhere is the sane approach really. |
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| 16:08:15 | <int-e> | This is one reason why people use containers. But you can do things like installing to a custom prefix (/usr/local or /opt) and copying that around? |
| 16:08:18 | <albet70> | but I'm afraid the the package which compiled on other machines is too big to transfer |
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| 16:09:06 | <albet70> | I see there's a haskell docker container, but no scotty in it |
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| 16:09:38 | <shachaf> | I wonder, is producing statically-linked binaries practical with GHC yet? |
| 16:10:01 | <shachaf> | I remember GMP was one reason that couldn't be done, but I heard people were working on alternatives. |
| 16:10:22 | <int-e> | ? |
| 16:10:41 | <int-e> | You /can/ link GMP statically. You just can't distribute the resulting binary. |
| 16:11:09 | <shachaf> | Right, fair enough. I guess I should say "one reason that wasn't done". |
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| 16:12:55 | <shachaf> | But I wonder whether producing a completely statically-linked Linux binary is practical, with no libc or anything. |
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| 16:18:46 | <johnjay> | is there any way to run and compile haskell on a tablet? |
| 16:18:51 | <johnjay> | or should I use replit or some similar site? |
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| 16:21:37 | <albet70> | "johnjay :is there any way to run and compile haskell on a tablet?", a x86 tablet is possible |
| 16:21:51 | <johnjay> | sure. but i think we both know i'm using an android. XD |
| 16:22:02 | <albet70> | if it's x86-android, u can use chroot |
| 16:22:03 | <johnjay> | i guess ipads still exist. you can draw on them apparently |
| 16:22:53 | <albet70> | "johnjay :sure. but i think we both know i'm using an android. XD", oh I forgot, there's a ghc package for arm64 |
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| 16:23:35 | <johnjay> | i see. i think i tried compiling something on my imac and i had problems cause of that |
| 16:23:53 | <johnjay> | i don't fully understand how the built in rosetta emulation works either |
| 16:23:56 | <albet70> | u need install a debian rootfs on android, then install that ghc arm64 package |
| 16:24:00 | <johnjay> | it sort of runs x86 stuff... idk |
| 16:24:16 | <johnjay> | is that like rooting the device? idk the lingo |
| 16:24:28 | <albet70> | "johnjay :is that like rooting the device? idk the lingo", no need to root |
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| 16:24:55 | <albet70> | use linuxdepoly some kind of android app to create a chroot environment |
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| 16:25:06 | <albet70> | or termux |
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| 16:26:51 | <johnjay> | i know about termux. i thought about trying run haskell from there |
| 16:27:00 | <johnjay> | apparently the termux in the app store is old and not supported due to google changes |
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| 16:28:15 | hiruji | is now known as aeka |
| 16:29:37 | <albet70> | then download termux from f-droid, remember u need termux-proot to get a linux environment, then download ghc-8.10.5-aarch64-deb10-linux.tar.xz from downloads.haskell.org, and compile it on that termux-proot |
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| 16:31:12 | <johnjay> | ahh ok. thanks i will |
| 16:31:41 | <albet70> | my android phone has 6GB RAM, my computer has 4GB, and my vps has 1GB, how ironic |
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| 16:41:50 | <tomsmeding> | albet70: I have termux, not termux-proot. I've tried to use an aarch64 distribution of ghc before but it didn't work because some libraries were missing. Have you had more luck? |
| 16:42:07 | <tomsmeding> | "install a debian rootfs" ah there you go |
| 16:42:26 | <tomsmeding> | thanks all clear :) |
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| 17:12:11 | <albet70> | tomsmeding: u need libnuma-dev, build-essential and libc-dev |
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| 17:12:54 | <albet70> | and also termux-proot is a linux environment to run ghc, and it's part of termux |
| 17:14:03 | <albet70> | and I do have a ghc-deb10-arm64.deb if u need, I can share it |
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| 18:31:12 | <hololeap> | anyone know of a mnemonic for remembering what some and many do? |
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| 18:33:42 | <hololeap> | I guess s/o/me -- one or more; |
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| 18:36:40 | <c_wraith> | I still find it weird that those are even part of Alternative, given that they don't do anything useful for a lot of instances |
| 18:37:35 | <c_wraith> | > many [1,2,3] |
| 18:37:37 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: <<loop>> |
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| 18:38:33 | <geekosaur> | some implies at least one to me |
| 18:39:14 | <hololeap> | I guess you're right, but I don't usually think of "many" as including the possibility of zero |
| 18:39:15 | <geekosaur> | many's a bit weird though namewise since to me it implies a lot |
| 18:40:04 | <hololeap> | I have many achievements |
| 18:40:30 | <tomsmeding> | "I have many friends" |
| 18:41:08 | <c_wraith> | "A friend of the devil is a friend of mine". wait, wrong direction |
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| 18:41:22 | <lyxia> | yeah I remember many as the one that's not some |
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| 18:41:49 | tomsmeding | remembers many as the combinator that's regex' *, and some is "the other one" |
| 18:42:15 | <c_wraith> | I just... remember them. My capacity for trivia is vast. |
| 18:42:23 | <geekosaur> | that's more orloess the rest of how I remember them, some is + so many must be * |
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| 18:42:46 | <geekosaur> | it's still weird though |
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| 18:50:24 | <hololeap> | is there a way to prove that you have a Show instance for (f a) if you have a Show1 instance for f? |
| 18:51:18 | <tomsmeding> | and Show a, presumably |
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| 18:51:41 | <tomsmeding> | you _don't_ necessarily have a Show instance for (f a) though; however, that information is sufficient to _make_ one |
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| 18:51:59 | <geekosaur> | ^ |
| 18:52:24 | <geekosaur> | Show1 f is only enough to say that, *if* you have an a with Show, you can make Show (f a) |
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| 18:52:55 | <tomsmeding> | and if so, showsPrec = liftShowsPrec showsPrec showList |
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| 18:53:03 | <dsal> | hololeap: how many of these do you have? |
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| 18:53:41 | <hololeap> | how many of what do I have? |
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| 18:54:31 | <dsal> | How many intuitive mnemonics have you collected? |
| 18:55:07 | <hololeap> | I have no idea |
| 18:55:36 | <hololeap> | should I be counting them as I go? :3 |
| 18:56:36 | <hpc> | if only there was a way to remember lots of things at once, to make it easier to keep track of |
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| 18:58:01 | <dsal> | hololeap: if the answer is zero, that's ok, because when I ask you how many of something you have, you can have none, but if you have some, then you must have at least one. |
| 18:58:22 | <hololeap> | "many" ;) |
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| 18:59:42 | <dsal> | Good, then hopefully you see that I've answered your question several times. :) |
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| 19:02:46 | <hololeap> | oh, I get it |
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| 19:11:59 | <energizer> | `let {x = 2 + x} in x` what do the curly braces mean? |
| 19:12:19 | <geekosaur> | they can replace layout |
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| 19:13:04 | <energizer> | oh |
| 19:13:22 | <geekosaur> | so there, they're not doing much |
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| 19:33:18 | <juri_> | hmm. is anyone else using stan to lint check their code for totality? I'm wondering what to do with functions like sum, minimum, and maximum. |
| 19:34:04 | <maerwald> | I don't think stan can check your code for totality |
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| 19:35:26 | <Lycurgus> | i looked at it a while back, didn seem to be worth the effort |
| 19:35:35 | <eyJhb> | Reading this piece of Haskell sourcecode https://termbin.com/2rtf and I am unsure what `s'` and `s''`means? I have tried searching for it, but can't really find an anwser. |
| 19:35:37 | <eyJhb> | answer* |
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| 19:40:43 | <juri_> | Stan has done my code a lot of good. mostly making me add calls to error when conditions are out of the norm. |
| 19:41:57 | <juri_> | I just got done with eliminating head, tail, init, last, etc from Data.List, but eliminating sum, minimum, and maximum is a bit more problematic. they require noninfinite lists. |
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| 19:42:28 | <dsal> | > sum [] |
| 19:42:30 | <lambdabot> | 0 |
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| 19:43:26 | <dsal> | I tried stan in the past and it mostly just made noise. |
| 19:43:54 | <dsal> | I don't generally use a lot of partial functions, though. |
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| 19:44:38 | <dsal> | I'm pretty convinced anyone who says not to use `sum` should probably offer a lot of qualifiers, though. |
| 19:45:02 | <Profpatsch> | How about when I have a “lens” that will use an IO action to view/set the lens? Is that possible? |
| 19:45:24 | <energizer> | https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Fix_and_recursion says `fix` "finds the least-defined fixed point of a function" and "In any type, ⊥ is the least-defined value". So why isn't the least-defined fixed point of a function /always/ ⊥? |
| 19:45:26 | <geekosaur> | eyJhb, they're just new identifiers. haskell allows you to add ticks (primes in math parlance) to variable names to make new ones, usually meaning they're related in sonme way to the unticked one |
| 19:45:47 | <geekosaur> | > fix (const 2) |
| 19:45:49 | <lambdabot> | 2 |
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| 19:46:02 | <energizer> | geekosaur: bottom is less defined than 2, right? |
| 19:46:10 | <Lycurgus> | or the one less ticked |
| 19:46:18 | <geekosaur> | right, but const 2 <anything> is always 2 |
| 19:46:21 | <Lycurgus> | *ones |
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| 19:46:54 | <geekosaur> | so 2 is the least defined fixed point of (const 2) |
| 19:47:13 | <geekosaur> | > const 2 undefined |
| 19:47:15 | <lambdabot> | 2 |
| 19:47:29 | <energizer> | geekosaur: because it's impossible to get undefined out of `const 2 _` |
| 19:47:44 | <energizer> | ok |
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| 19:47:58 | <monochrom> | ⊥ is less defined than 0:0:0... That doesn't mean ⊥ satisfies the equation x = 0:x. 0:0:0:... does. |
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| 19:48:24 | <eyJhb> | Thanks geekosaur :) |
| 19:48:29 | <geekosaur> | > let s' = 5 in s' -- s' is just another name |
| 19:48:31 | <lambdabot> | 5 |
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| 19:49:12 | <Lycurgus> | as far as stan, statements vs more stuff;peoples want like quickcheck but for real not just tests rather than like a deep lint |
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| 19:55:57 | <juri_> | Lycurgus: I have property tests, unit tests and integration tests. i think testing is a separate subject. |
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| 19:57:07 | <geekosaur> | > let foo'bar = 6 in foo'bar |
| 19:57:08 | <lambdabot> | 6 |
| 19:57:18 | <Lycurgus> | will (programmer coded) tests go away when programs can be automatically proven correct? |
| 19:57:50 | <juri_> | no, because correct programs don't necessarilly do what the programmer intended. |
| 19:58:04 | <geekosaur> | you can prove a program fits its specification. you can't prove the spec is correct |
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| 19:58:41 | <monochrom> | "prove correct" is only relative to a specification. Now you have to test your specification. |
| 19:58:47 | <Lycurgus> | so i was actually looking forward to a system that synthesized hs from English |
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| 19:59:06 | <geekosaur> | english is *way* too multivalued |
| 19:59:18 | <geekosaur> | to work as either a programming language or a specification language |
| 20:00:17 | <geekosaur> | not to mention things like, the common use of "sort" is not the programming one |
| 20:00:19 | <Lycurgus> | well controlled english ofc |
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| 20:00:51 | <Lycurgus> | for which there's already a well worked hs system |
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| 20:07:23 | <maerwald> | I'm in love with windows paths |
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| 20:07:53 | <juri_> | maerwald: CON |
| 20:08:00 | <maerwald> | `\\?\GLOBALROOT\GLOBAL??\UNC\localhost\c$\foo\bar` -> `C:\foo\bar` |
| 20:08:22 | <geekosaur> | gesundheit |
| 20:08:36 | <maerwald> | well, most of our libraries choke on it :p |
| 20:08:45 | <maerwald> | but it's valid |
| 20:08:54 | <geekosaur> | I don't blame them :þ |
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| 20:09:40 | <maerwald> | makes you appreciate how well posix is actually designed |
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| 20:10:04 | <maerwald> | windows specification was created by an intern |
| 20:10:18 | <juri_> | ... who was drunk. |
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| 20:11:30 | <energizer> | wiki gives exercise to write nonrecursive version of `filter` using `fix`. i'm stuck. can someone show the answer for another function like map or takeWhile |
| 20:11:31 | <yushyin> | but only to reach ballmer peak |
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| 20:12:17 | <maerwald> | I reach that every day. |
| 20:12:27 | <geekosaur> | and then blow past it? |
| 20:12:45 | <maerwald> | without being actually drunk |
| 20:13:24 | <maerwald> | I mean... if you read through windows documentation more than half an hour, you'll get there |
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| 20:14:06 | <maerwald> | it's a stream of WTF moments that doesn't end |
| 20:14:26 | <tomsmeding> | energizer: 'fix' has type '(a -> a) -> a'. What if you set 'a ~ s -> t'? |
| 20:14:37 | <geekosaur> | I was amazed at how much of basic win32 looked like "let's just flip the meaning of this flag so we're not a clone of os/2 1.x" |
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| 20:16:02 | <geekosaur> | regardless of how rational flipping that flag was |
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| 20:17:45 | <EvanR> | BeOS supremity |
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| 20:25:37 | <leah2> | is there a haskell library ala Shake.Command that supports creating pipes? |
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| 20:29:52 | <geekosaur> | Turtle or shelly? |
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| 20:30:05 | <maerwald> | pipes? |
| 20:30:13 | <maerwald> | what do you mean with pipes |
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| 20:31:28 | <geekosaur> | System.Process in base can create pipes also but you'll have to do a bit more work. And in any case beware of the open3 problem: you can't sensibly read from and write to an external command at the same time, unlessa multithreaded |
| 20:32:22 | <geekosaur> | (as "open3" should suggest, this is a very general problem not at all limited to haskell) |
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| 20:40:07 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: why, because writing and/or reading may block and thus prevent you from doing the other thing? Does select(2) (and friends) fix this in C? |
| 20:41:13 | <geekosaur> | you expect tp write to the program, then read the result. program streams its output. program's output pipe blocks because you're not reading. program stops reading. you block on full pipe |
| 20:41:19 | <geekosaur> | classic deadlock |
| 20:41:32 | <tomsmeding> | oh right, if you don't anticipate this scenario |
| 20:41:45 | <geekosaur> | select() only goes so far, you still have to be prepared to read output *while* writing |
| 20:41:54 | <tomsmeding> | like, you can fix this as host program, but you need to be aware that it needs fixing |
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| 20:42:21 | <leah2> | geekosaur: i'll look at these, thx |
| 20:42:22 | <tomsmeding> | easy trap though :) |
| 20:42:34 | <geekosaur> | and very common one |
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| 20:43:07 | <geekosaur> | lots of people get this wrong because they assume the OS being concurrent means it can't happen, when *their program* must be concurrent in some sense to prevent it |
| 20:43:27 | <tomsmeding> | which can be within one thread if you program carefully |
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| 20:44:11 | <tomsmeding> | good advice though |
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| 20:44:40 | <monochrom> | Oh, I know of an even more fantastic fantasy of automatic concurrency. |
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| 20:45:39 | <monochrom> | I had a student who thought that just because you have called "listen(10)", it means when you call "accept(s)" it can talk to 10 clients concurrently. |
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| 20:46:05 | <tomsmeding> | as if by magic ✨ |
| 20:46:16 | <tomsmeding> | mutable state doesn't exist |
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| 20:53:20 | <zincy_> | monochrom: What so opening a concurrent connection means everything automatically works concurrently? |
| 20:54:49 | <EvanR> | if I just have a haskell file and no project, can I possibly use vector without dealing with a "system package" |
| 20:55:03 | <monochrom> | You write an accept-interact-close loop. You find that after the 1st client has connected, your loop is unresponsive to future clients. |
| 20:55:14 | <monochrom> | You think that listen(big number) solves that. |
| 20:56:05 | <monochrom> | Or rather, s/you/my student/ |
| 20:56:10 | <tomsmeding> | cabal repl -b vector --repl-options=yourfile.hs, but make sure that it has a module header otherwise it won't work |
| 20:56:18 | <dsal> | EvanR: I'm afraid you're going to need to install NixOS and start using stack. |
| 20:56:25 | <zincy_> | I am your student just not on your course |
| 20:56:37 | <geekosaur> | cabal has scripts, they're just poorly documented |
| 20:57:29 | <dsal> | Data.Map.Strict.partition is ~10x slower than Data.Map.Strict.filter when I end up matching slightly less than one item on average. |
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| 20:59:05 | <EvanR> | dsal, lol |
| 21:00:15 | <EvanR> | tomsmeding, k that's something |
| 21:00:44 | <sm> | EvanR: certainly, use a stack script |
| 21:00:52 | <EvanR> | :| |
| 21:01:07 | <EvanR> | I might as well just create a cabal project |
| 21:01:09 | <sm> | or a cabal script if you don't like stack, it's just not quite as good |
| 21:01:21 | <sm> | you asked for no project |
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| 21:01:34 | <tomsmeding> | but yeah also cabal script https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-commands.html?highlight=script#cabal-v2-run |
| 21:01:37 | <EvanR> | a stack script is less? |
| 21:01:56 | <EvanR> | I haven't had to install stack this go around with haskell |
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| 21:02:10 | <sm> | a stack/cabal script is less than a project, yes (but still reproducible) |
| 21:02:28 | <sm> | they're great |
| 21:03:10 | <EvanR> | cool |
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| 21:04:57 | <EvanR> | so a cabal script is a script that cabal runs... and the language is haskell? |
| 21:05:19 | <sm> | yes |
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| 21:06:36 | <sm> | https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/GUIDE/#script-interpreter |
| 21:06:59 | <EvanR> | that's awesome |
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| 21:07:47 | <EvanR> | does it cache the compiled exe |
| 21:08:04 | <sm> | stack does, cabal doesn't |
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| 21:13:31 | <fgaz> | EvanR: you could also use cabal-env to create an enviroment with the packages you need then use ghc directly |
| 21:13:56 | <EvanR> | and that's different from just creating a cabal project? xD |
| 21:16:24 | <fgaz> | it's... less declarative |
| 21:17:08 | <fgaz> | it works great for quick experiments for example |
| 21:17:26 | <fgaz> | long term i'd definitely create a project though |
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| 21:23:45 | <EvanR> | cool, the cabal script works and runs |
| 21:23:56 | <EvanR> | and using vector instead of list is much faster |
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| 21:24:21 | <EvanR> | and running the script itself now has high latency due to compilation I guess xD |
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| 21:25:02 | <sm> | yes, cabal compiles it every time |
| 21:25:13 | <sm> | nullifying the advantage a bit |
| 21:25:30 | <EvanR> | some unfortunate infrastructure overhead just to use arrays hehe |
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| 21:29:09 | geekosaur | wonders if there's some way to abuse ccache into being hcache |
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| 21:59:45 | <EvanR> | Vector.modify is documented as doing in-place update if possible other makes a copy. Is this real? I.e. does it ever not just make a copy |
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| 22:00:39 | <EvanR> | otherwise* |
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| 22:02:12 | <int-e> | EvanR: I'd take this as code-speak for fusion, so if you modify a freshly created vector it'll just create one |
| 22:03:15 | <int-e> | let's see if I understand the code well enough to figure out whether there's more to it |
| 22:03:22 | <EvanR> | haha yeah I tried |
| 22:04:04 | <EvanR> | clone creates a New wrapper, so maybe the optimizer can recognize that and avoid a copy |
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| 22:06:41 | <int-e> | e.g. there's a rule like this, `"clone/new [Vector]" forall p. clone (new p) = p` and `modify` is implemented as `modify p = new . New.modify p . clone` |
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| 22:07:33 | <EvanR> | so clone and new cancel |
| 22:07:47 | <EvanR> | if you chain modifies, it only creates 1 new |
| 22:07:55 | <int-e> | where `clone :: Vector v a => v a -> New v a` and `new :: Vector v a => New v a -> v a` switch between vector and vector-being-initialized (really a wrapper around ST) |
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| 22:08:40 | <int-e> | so yeah it still looks like code-speak for fusion :) |
| 22:09:05 | <EvanR> | that's pretty slick |
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| 23:00:32 | <juri_> | grr. infinite type error. oh, fun. |
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| 23:04:52 | <juri_> | oh. remove the definitions, and it's all happy. |
| 23:04:55 | <juri_> | crud. |
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| 23:12:32 | <EvanR> | an infinite error you say |
| 23:12:36 | <EvanR> | > fix error |
| 23:12:37 | <lambdabot> | "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Ex... |
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| 23:16:32 | <hololeap> | there's a potential semigroup on (Bool, a) where it stops at (True, a) and ignores any farther arguments. is there a name for this? |
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| 23:22:07 | <hololeap> | kind of a hybrid between First and Any |
| 23:23:04 | <EvanR> | by just mapping to First you don't need to answer this xD |
| 23:26:04 | <EvanR> | is there a way to "stick an a" on any semigroup like that and have it make sense... I guess not |
| 23:26:36 | <EvanR> | there's Tagged but that's a phantom |
| 23:28:03 | <hololeap> | that's true, I could foldMap (f :: a -> First a) |
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| 23:30:24 | <EvanR> | was thinking (Bool,a) -> First a |
| 23:30:38 | <EvanR> | oh, tuple foldable |
| 23:30:49 | <maerwald> | "lol" </> "/bar" -> "/bar" -- another bug on windows :p |
| 23:31:37 | <EvanR> | no laughing on windows 👔 |
| 23:32:06 | <maerwald> | "/bar" on windows is equivalent to "bar", so the result should be "lol\\bar" |
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| 23:39:08 | <juri_> | windows. nevermore. |
| 23:40:20 | <sm> | listening to a recent SPJ podcast interview, I was reminded that in a sense, it's Windows users that have paid for Haskell |
| 23:41:42 | <juri_> | good. getting something good from evil does not mean you owe fealty to evil. you should congratulate those who held the line against evil, and move on. |
| 23:41:45 | <maerwald> | they never paid me any money |
| 23:42:12 | <sm> | microsoft paid SPJ (at least) to do whatever he wanted (GHC maintenance) for years |
| 23:42:20 | <EvanR> | surprised to see accursedUnutterablePerformIO in latest bytestring code xD |
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| 23:42:31 | <EvanR> | thought that was censored a while back |
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| 23:42:45 | <sm> | microsoft's money came from Windows users. Therefore, we should kind of thank windows users once in a while |
| 23:43:06 | <EvanR> | anyway, is there a sane way to fold over 2 bytes at a time |
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| 23:46:38 | <juri_> | sm: windows users don't donate to microsoft. they pay, or they can't use their computers. thanking someone for being a victim is not healthy. |
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| 23:48:32 | <EvanR> | I'm a windows user and I didn't pay |
| 23:48:46 | <EvanR> | only occasionally I can't read whatever is behind the watermark |
| 23:49:13 | <EvanR> | ghcup on windows works great thanks for that |
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| 23:50:02 | <maerwald[m]> | EvanR: I accept bitcoin |
| 23:50:51 | <maerwald[m]> | ADA is too low right now :p |
| 23:52:40 | <geekosaur> | microsoft's money didn't come from windows users. it came from *office* users |
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