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Logs on 2021-12-12 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:14:16 <glguy> data UArray i e = UArray !i !i !Int ByteArray#
00:14:31 <glguy> how you interpret those raw bytes very much depends on which Unbox instance you use
00:14:55 <glguy> err, which IArray instance
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00:17:36 <d34df00d> glguy: yep, and I'm writing my own newtype wrapper around some base type (Word32 in this case), and I want to use its Unbox instance.
00:17:57 <d34df00d> Sure, I could decorate all the reads/writes with the newtype constructor/accessor names, but that seems ugly and exposes implementation details to the client code.
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00:18:17 <d34df00d> I'd much rather have the unbox instance in my module that the rest of the world can use not caring about how my thing actually gets stored.
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00:22:20 <geekosaur> d34df00d, I think the ticket it was pointing to was https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/9220 ?
00:22:38 <d34df00d> Somehow that ticket evaded me. Thanks!
00:23:23 <d34df00d> Yeah, I agree they shouldn't be phantom, but not so sure about nominal vs representational.
00:23:41 <d34df00d> > I think they should all be nominal, since a newtype of an existing type could have a totally unrelated MArray or Storable instance.
00:23:42 <d34df00d> dunno
00:23:42 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:35: error: parse error on input ‘,’
00:24:40 <d34df00d> If you have a newtype with a different instance, just parametrize it with a dummy nominal type variable, I think?
00:24:55 <d34df00d> I have to read through comments carefully though. geekosaur thanks again for the link!
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00:36:26 <hololeap> awpr: this actually compiles. thanks for the advice: http://sprunge.us/BeUDUJ
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00:47:27 <mjrosenb> cabal: Cannot open a repl for the executable 'app' because it is marked as buildable: False' within the 'MatchRex.cabal' file (at least for the current...
00:47:35 <mjrosenb> so, I'm confused about why I'm getting this
00:47:51 × jespada quits (~jespada@87.74.33.157) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
00:47:51 <mjrosenb> I don't have buildable: False in the config for `app`
00:47:58 <mjrosenb> and I don't have a file MatchRex.cabal
00:48:04 <mjrosenb> the file is match-rex.cabal.
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00:55:47 <mjrosenb> ahh, the cabal-install I'm using is *ancient*
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01:11:40 <sm> what vintage ?
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01:18:11 <mjrosenb> 2.4
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01:41:05 <hololeap> anyone know how you're "supposed to" access the underlying Representable when using Control.Comonad.Representable.Store
01:41:23 <sm> a classic year
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01:41:56 <hololeap> when I'm done using the comonad interface I want to get my Representable full of values
01:43:49 hololeap waits for a 2001 ASO joke
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01:53:02 <hololeap> I guess (tabulate . flip peek) works
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02:06:28 <hololeap> well, this disproves that you cannot use vector-sized for vectors parsed at runtime
02:06:50 <hololeap> you just gotta get existential...
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02:15:01 <EvanR> that's pretty cool
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03:10:27 <dsal> I tried to rewrite last night's AoC thing with ST Arrays. It's a little faster. A lot more code and the type system freaks out in ways I don't fully understand when I make small changes.
03:10:45 <slowButPresent> ~888888888888888„„„„„„„„„„„„„„
03:10:58 <dsal> Exactly.
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03:11:41 <c_wraith> I just used UArray and bulk updates. That's fast enough for everything that matters.
03:12:55 <int-e> Data.Map is generally fast enough for AoC.
03:12:59 <c_wraith> also much harder to get wrong
03:13:03 <dsal> I used a map and that's fine. I thought MArray would be much faster. But it's just a little faster. Entirely too much code.
03:13:27 <c_wraith> I think array as a package is very underrated.
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03:13:41 <dsal> It's pretty weird. Especially as it intersects with ST.
03:14:03 <c_wraith> the mutable stuff is not as good as the immutable stuff
03:15:14 <dsal> There's really not much there. I'm kind of surprised most of the mutation stuff requires me to do another read when I'm done. Like... you had the value, just give it to me.
03:15:20 <int-e> Ix is pretty bad though; it's insane how much performancy one can often gain by using unsafeWrite/unsafeRead instead
03:15:37 <dsal> I think ix is pretty great.
03:15:42 <dsal> Though it's differently weird.
03:15:43 <c_wraith> Ix is the best part
03:15:46 <int-e> it's *slow*
03:15:54 <dsal> What part of Ix is slow?
03:16:18 <int-e> mostly the part where you do bounds checking on accessing two-dimensional arrays
03:16:27 <int-e> (1D is usually okay-ish)
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03:17:23 <int-e> it's sad, because as an abstraction it's rather neat
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03:19:52 <c_wraith> Ix gives me trivially-easy edge clamping behavior, as I can just re-use inRange. That's incredibly nice.
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03:33:29 <EvanR> I've been pretending those grids are infinite and using an appropriate value past the edge
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03:38:08 <int-e> . o O ( invisible octopodes have -inf energy )
03:39:20 <c_wraith> did anyone do any research into worst-case inputs for part 2?
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03:45:52 <int-e> c_wraith: it can loop without synchronizing
03:46:34 <int-e> e.g. http://paste.debian.net/1223090/
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03:48:14 <int-e> (Good, now I can stop wondering how to prove that :-P)
03:48:30 <EvanR> not -infinity didn't cause a problem with octupuses
03:49:00 <EvanR> but I did try to put -200 at first before coming to my senses
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03:50:28 <int-e> c_wraith: Of course that doesn't invalidate your question... you can still restrict to patterns that do synchronize and ask about the worst case for those.
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03:51:38 <int-e> There's only 10^100 states, Google should be able to solve this.
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03:52:26 <int-e> (a joke based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol)
03:52:39 <c_wraith> don't worry, I got it! :P
03:53:16 <EvanR> oof
03:53:37 <paraseba> How would I implement ( zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a,b)] )  using lens package? transposeOf comes close, but it replaces the tuple with a list of size 2
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03:56:04 <glguy> paraseba: zip isn't really too closely related to lenses
03:56:25 <c_wraith> well, there's https://r6research.livejournal.com/28050.html
03:56:41 <c_wraith> but... that isn't in lens
03:57:25 <paraseba> oh, very interesting ....
03:59:19 <c_wraith> Still, the nice thing about lens is that the internals are all open. You could just write that part yourself and it would mostly integrate with the rest of the library
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04:02:23 <paraseba> zip is one of the things I miss when I try to use lens as a prelude. I wonder if that practice is relatively common...
04:03:00 <paraseba> particularly because zip is so commonly needed across different types of containers
04:05:15 <dsal> @src zip
04:05:15 <lambdabot> zip (a:as) (b:bs) = (a,b) : zip as bs
04:05:15 <lambdabot> zip _ _ = []
04:06:04 <EvanR> > repeat (,) <*> [0..] <*> ['a','b'..]
04:06:05 <lambdabot> [(0,'a'),(0,'b'),(0,'c'),(0,'d'),(0,'e'),(0,'f'),(0,'g'),(0,'h'),(0,'i'),(0,...
04:06:08 <EvanR> cool
04:06:18 <EvanR> who needs zip
04:06:26 <c_wraith> that's... not a zip. :P
04:06:31 <EvanR> oops
04:06:39 <paraseba> you'd need ZipList
04:07:15 <dsal> > ['a'..]
04:07:17 <lambdabot> "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~\DEL\128\129\130\131\132\133\134\135\136\137\...
04:07:37 <EvanR> > ['b','a'...]
04:07:39 <lambdabot> error:
04:07:39 <lambdabot> A section must be enclosed in parentheses thus: ('a' ...)
04:07:47 <EvanR> > ['b','a'..]
04:07:48 <lambdabot> "ba`_^]\\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9876543210/.-,+*)('&%$#\"! \US\RS...
04:08:10 <EvanR> iicsa
04:08:19 <dsal> heh
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04:26:01 <xerox> `_^
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04:31:43 <int-e> c_wraith: I wonder how lucky I got with this (I'm generating random starting positions): https://paste.debian.net/1223091/
04:32:22 <c_wraith> how many steps did that take?
04:32:30 <int-e> try it :)
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04:32:58 <c_wraith> I'm nowhere near a computer! (uh.... well. sort of.)
04:33:08 <int-e> almost 30k
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04:39:35 <int-e> I suspect that was very lucky; with a different seed I'm only up to 2.4k after twice as much time
04:42:03 <int-e> code in the forbidden language: https://paste.debian.net/1223092/
04:42:43 <glguy> Your Haskell has so many language extensions!
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04:44:50 <int-e> Eh, it's number crunching code; the logic is dead simple but optimizing the tight loops matters... ghc/Haskell is a bad fit for that type of thing.
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04:47:32 <int-e> (I bet the step function is far from optimal; doing several linear scans until things stabilize has a very good chance of being faster)
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05:00:38 the_last_immorta uploaded a video: (44467KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ijbzjuLcVlWzvYcuxmYznkId/yt5s.com-Simon%20Peyton%20Jones%20-%20Haskell%20is%20useless-(480p).mp4 >
05:02:21 <the_last_immorta> quickSort [] = []
05:02:21 <the_last_immorta> quickSort (x:xs) = quickSort [a | a <- xs, a < x]
05:02:21 <the_last_immorta> ++ [x] ++ quickSort [a | a <- xs, a >= x]
05:02:28 <the_last_immorta> im interested
05:03:09 <the_last_immorta> can i ........am currently experimenting....can i add conditional statetements, but still apart of the object?
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05:17:34 <pavonia> What is the object to you?
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05:45:38 <monochrom> Also, no "statement". Only expressions.
05:45:58 <monochrom> Conditional expressions exist, but they are not conditional statements.
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06:01:04 <xerox> int-e: \o/
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06:03:21 <int-e> xerox: you're not safe yet though :P
06:03:32 <xerox> darn
06:03:54 <xerox> oh him again! :)
06:04:05 <int-e> 2 people in fact
06:04:27 <xerox> who's the other
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06:05:04 <int-e> > 3917 + 380 - 2*11 - 4
06:05:06 <lambdabot> 4271
06:05:18 <int-e> > 3917 + 380 - 2*11 - 4 > 4241
06:05:19 <lambdabot> True
06:05:48 <xerox> gotcha
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06:06:30 <int-e> I lost so much time by violating the KISS principle :-/
06:06:46 <xerox> what did you not keep simple
06:07:22 <int-e> I wrote code to eliminate UPPER CASE nodes from the graph.
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06:08:23 <xerox> I see
06:10:07 <xerox> I went for brute code duplication which is kind of a way to keep it simple
06:10:14 <xerox> time to smoothen it out
06:10:48 <int-e> Of course. I do duplicate all the code (I copy the file).
06:13:02 <int-e> Adding insult to the injury, I wrote that code and missed a subtlety regarding the start node and ended up not even using it.
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06:18:02 <xerox> yesterday I learned about ghcid --test=:main which was quite helpful, I kept getting the paths printed on save, instanteously looking at their features: at some point a bunch of "start"s started popping up in the middle!
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06:24:08 <int-e> Don't get me wrong, this /does/ help performance. But the naive version runs in less than a second compiled (~860ms for me), so improving that by a factor of 100 (~7 milliseconds), while impressive, really doesn't matter.
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06:29:57 <EvanR> that's funny you got starts in the middle somehow...
06:30:08 <EvanR> I didn't and forgot to even think about it
06:30:47 <int-e> ...startling behavior...
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06:33:33 <EvanR> i feel like haskell is making some of these puzzles really easy... then I assume other people with ridiculous scores are not using haskell, and being flabbergasted
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06:33:52 <EvanR> what magic languages are out there xD
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06:38:25 <Taneb> int-e: thanks from stopping me from thinking too hard about it :D
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07:42:16 <int-e> c_wraith: darn you, now I have to resist the temptation to implement day 11 with SSE3 operations
07:42:29 <c_wraith> hah
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10:05:26 <int-e> c_wraith: I lost :-/ https://paste.debian.net/1223102/ (it is noticably faster though!)
10:05:51 <int-e> also unreadable, as usual
10:06:30 <c_wraith> only the SSE ops are unreadable!
10:06:47 <int-e> yeah that's what I meant
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10:37:42 <xerox> how can I know if a rewrite rule is taking effect?
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10:39:44 <c_wraith> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/debugging.html#ghc-flag--ddump-rule-firings
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10:40:08 <c_wraith> Or the flag below that one, for more details. It says.
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11:08:00 <xerox> sweet
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12:15:55 <Arsen> hey, I asked a while ago in #haskell-stack, but it appears to be more inactive, so I'm reposting here, if that's alright: can stack fetch deps? building pandoc on CI isn't great
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13:14:06 <geekosaur> can and does. that's kinda the point, in fact
13:14:38 <geekosaur> both stack and modern cabal manage the dependencies for you
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13:23:35 <timCF> Hello! I did already asked yesterday question about dealing with such issue, and as I understood there is the way how I can write Eq instance manually, but I didn't understood how to do that exactly https://gist.github.com/21it/5e6f822ee61408e98818b94f51dde4da
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14:07:31 <iphy> is there a "m [f a] -> m (f [a])"?
14:07:39 <iphy> I can't find one on hoogle
14:08:59 <iphy> or: [a] -> (a -> m (f a)) -> m (f [a])
14:09:04 <xerox> shouldn't be that far from traverse
14:09:17 <iphy> hmm, hoogle says sequenceA <$> traverse
14:09:46 <iphy> yep, that's it
14:10:30 <iphy> sequenceA <$> traverse f xs
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14:30:36 <Arsen> geekosaur: fetch built deps*
14:30:47 <Arsen> since the point is reproducible builds, I'd expect it to be possible
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14:34:29 <geekosaur> on CI you'd want to save the .stack-work dir so the deps are already available
14:34:46 <geekosaur> I believe there are CI tools which do this for you
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14:38:02 <Arsen> hm, okay
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14:38:09 <Arsen> surely, GitHub actions have a way to do this
14:38:46 <Arsen> that'd still take about an hour on first build, though, hmm
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14:41:30 <geekosaur> https://github.com/freckle/stack-cache-action ?
14:42:00 <geekosaur> also I though there was a standardized haskell ci template or something that included stack caching
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14:42:44 <geekosaur> stack doesn't cache built objects upstream, because they depend too much on precise compile options and the like
14:48:54 <geekosaur> mrr, found haskell-ci but it's cabal, not stack
14:49:17 <geekosaur> does cache .cabal/store (rough equivalent of .stack-work)
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15:01:16 <geekosaur> only haskell-ci configs I can find are for cabal 2+. looked for stack but found only travis-ci configs
15:01:24 <smichel17[m]> There's also a `-outputdir` ghc option. Not sure if that helps in this case (doesn't speed up the initial build), and I'm not sure how it relates to .stack-work
15:03:43 <smichel17[m]> (If anybody knows whether/how it relates to `.stack-work`, I'd much appreciate an explanation!)
15:04:31 <geekosaur> it doesn't. stack saves packages, not individual files
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15:05:15 <geekosaur> it's more closely related to using ghc-pkg to register a new package
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16:04:24 <altern> /msg NickServ IDENTIFY altern ehgdae
16:08:08 <altern> Hi! I am having a weird problem with running cmd command 'git pull --tags --dry-run' when calling the function from servant API endpoint. More details here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70324007/why-does-a-command-line-call-behaves-not-as-expected-when-i-am-doing-that-in-has Would be grateful if somebody could help
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16:17:23 <robbert-vdh> Is there some convenient way to include internal developer-oriented documentation to in Haddock docstrings other than just splitting the comment into two and restarting the second comment with just `-- `? For things like todo comments and notes about the implementation that aren't relevant to consumers of the library.
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16:49:52 <EvanR> lol altern you might want to change your nickserv password
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16:51:25 <altern> changed
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17:15:11 <ph88> when i have a piece of data that is part of several lists and other data structures, would it be ok to make it mutable so that i can just update it and don't have to go around finding and updating in several places? or is that too heretic ?
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17:17:21 <EvanR> then you'd have to make what is in those lists merely a reference to the mutable object instead of the object itself
17:17:42 <EvanR> e.g. an IORef or Int key into a mutable store, or something
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17:19:20 <EvanR> then you can't access the data without IO
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17:21:40 <ph88> yes, just that i never done it like that
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17:22:41 <EvanR> probably for the best xD
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17:24:27 <EvanR> you could also keep your "pieces" in an IntMap, and speak of their Int key elsewhere
17:24:48 <EvanR> but don't mix up the keys
17:25:29 <EvanR> you can add some type safety with a dependent map and typed keys
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17:59:05 <ph88> thanks EvanR
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18:03:41 <ph88> is there an out of the box function that works on list that either inserts a new item or updates an existing item based on a comparison predicate ?
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18:04:53 <monochrom> No, but there are some for Data.Map.
18:05:00 <monochrom> or Data.Set
18:07:44 <ph88> this ? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers-0.6.5.1/docs/Data-Set.html#v:alterF
18:07:49 <EvanR> List turns out to be a bad container usually
18:08:12 <EvanR> maybe they didn't want to encourage it xD
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18:10:11 <ph88> actually i'm implementing in purescript, but looking at haskell for inspiration
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18:19:30 <sm> python wrestles with the upper bounds issue: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29507681
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20:56:57 <dmj`> Is it a bug that the Haskell2010 report didn't include "qtycls" in the lexical spec. ? It's mentioned in BNF, but technically not a lexeme
21:00:19 <dmj`> GHC's parser doesn't include it as an identifier either https://github.com/ghc/ghc/blob/master/compiler/GHC/Parser.y#L691
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21:04:09 <Pickchea> Why can't GHC type «let g = \x -> x in \f -> (f 0, f True)»? I thought that's what the let rule in the Hindley-Milner type system was for and it's called let-polymorphism.
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21:05:19 <lyxia> dmj`: I think it's intentional. Section 2.4 explicitly mentions "two namespaces" vs "six different kinds of names", although the exact meaning of this distinction remains vague.
21:05:30 <glguy> Pickchea: did you mean to use g?
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21:07:21 <Pickchea> glguy, sorry, I meant: let g = (\x -> x) in (\f -> (f 0, f True)) g
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21:07:58 <glguy> Pickchea: the f in \f-> has to have one (unquantified) type
21:08:11 <glguy> it doesn't have to do with let polymorphism
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21:08:21 <glguy> (\f -> (f 0, f True)) id
21:08:23 <glguy> same thing
21:09:05 <hololeap> so I can right click on a unexported function name and click on "quick fix" from the LSP menu. what does it do? 1. adds {-# OPTIONS_GHC -Wno-unused-top-binds #-} 2. adds the function name to the module exports 3. deletes the function entirely
21:09:27 <hololeap> answer: all of the above XD
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21:10:31 <Pickchea> glguy, I know that that doesn't work but I thought the let would permit polymorphic types that way.
21:10:42 <glguy> it does:
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21:10:43 <glguy> :t let g = \x -> x in (g 0, g True)
21:10:44 <lambdabot> Num a => (a, Bool)
21:11:07 <c_wraith> as long as you actually use the *name* bound in the let
21:11:19 <c_wraith> it's syntactic
21:11:59 <glguy> This lambda just can't be typed: (\f -> (f (0::Int), f True))
21:12:48 <glguy> With RankNTypes you can do: (\(f :: forall a. a -> a) -> (f 'a', f True))
21:12:59 <glguy> but it's up to you to annotate the polymorphism
21:13:08 <Pickchea> glguy, ah I see. Yes, have tried RankNTypes already, crazy stuff.
21:13:20 <Square> Whats going on in this exotic signature : f' :: RecordField from a -> ([] `Compose` (,) [Text] `Compose` (->) Value `Compose` (Except D)) ... (taken from https://hackage.haskell.org/package/schemas-0.3.0.2/docs/src/Schemas.Internal.html#local-6989586621679105056 )local-6989586621679105820
21:13:59 <Square> I guess i mean ... whats the `Compose` thing?
21:15:05 <EvanR> it composes two type constructors
21:15:29 <EvanR> like type level .
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21:17:47 <Square> ah ok. Is that part of an extension or basic functionality?
21:17:56 <Square> ghc extension that is
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21:26:42 <geekosaur> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/libraries/base-4.16.0.0/Data-Functor-Compose.html
21:27:27 <dmj`> I still chuckle at this "Enable MultiParamTypeClasses to allow no-parameter classes"
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21:30:38 <hpc> in english, zero is plural
21:33:48 <Square> geekosaur, thanks
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21:56:17 <dmj`> lyxia: yea, a simple translation of the 2010 spec gives ~80 reduce/reduce conflicts in happy
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22:44:07 <hololeap> Square: it's mostly used to extend typeclass instances to composed type constructors, e.g. instance (Applicative f, Applicative g) => Applicative (Compose f g)
22:44:33 <hololeap> so you could get the combined Applicative for e.g. [Maybe a]
22:45:40 <Square> hololeap, oh right. And thats no possible wo that trick?
22:46:53 <hololeap> it's possible. you could make a newtype wrapping [Maybe a] and then just define your own Applicative instance, but you'd most likely just be recreating the Applicative for (Compose [] Maybe)
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22:49:04 <hololeap> likewise, they could have wrapped [([Text], Value -> Except D a)] in a newtype, but they chose to leverage all the instances that you get by using Compose
22:49:30 <hololeap> (at least I assume that's why they did that)
22:50:30 <hololeap> personally, I like to use Compose with the DerivingVia extension, that way you don't have to have a bunch of Compose constructors that you will eventually have to deal with
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22:52:12 <hololeap> newtype MyThing a = MyThing (Either String [Maybe a]) ; deriving Applicative via Compose (Either String) (Compose [] Maybe)
22:52:20 <hololeap> hope that makes sense
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23:34:46 <smichel17[m]> Does anyone know how to get GHC to spit out all of the options it's being called with? I'm using stack, but would like to know what the actual ghc command that runs in the end is.
23:35:42 <hololeap> that sounds like it should be a debug option for stack (I'm not a stack user)
23:35:44 <geekosaur> shouldn't stack -v show you that?
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23:36:34 <smichel17[m]> Ah, maybe. `stack -v` spits out *a lot*, so I was hoping there was a quicker way to get to the point, but I'll take a look
23:37:05 <geekosaur> usually there isn't, it's up to the invoker to show how it's invoking
23:39:53 <sm> verbosity control is not great with stack/cabal/ghc
23:40:22 <sm> you get too much, or too little
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23:54:11 <smichel17[m]> Thanks, it was there, after some digging
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All times are in UTC on 2021-12-12.