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Logs on 2022-01-04 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:38:38 <deech> I'm trying to understand the NonEmpty instance for 'Comonad', I would have expected https://pastebin.com/Py36e1NM to print '(1 :| [2,3]) :| [(2 :| [3]), (3 :| [])]' but instead it prints '(1 :| []) :| []'. Why does it behave this way?
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00:39:32 <Axman6> % :t extend
00:39:33 <yahb> Axman6: Comonad w => (w a -> b) -> w a -> w b
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00:39:58 <Axman6> % :t extend id
00:39:58 <yahb> Axman6: Comonad w => w a -> w (w a)
00:41:03 <Axman6> that does feel odd to me too, but comonads are something I only have a very basic understanding of
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00:42:04 <deech> Based on my reading of the instance I don't understand the output unless it's the result of laziness:https://github.com/ekmett/comonad/blob/main/src/Control/Comonad.hs#L193-L200.
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00:44:13 <Axman6> looks to me like the fist element should indeed be f applied to the whole input...
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00:45:37 <deech> Oh wait, what the hell, the GHCI repl from Emacs prints '(1 :| []) :| []' but actually running the executable prints what I expect.
00:46:14 <deech> It was repl session from Emacs. Sorry. I thought I was going nuts.
00:46:16 <Axman6> D:
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01:35:59 <albet70> how to use 'ask' without do notation? ask >>= \a -> doSome >>= \r -> visit-a-here?
01:36:21 <monochrom> Yes, you can use >>=
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01:36:44 <monochrom> In some cases you can use fmap and <*>
01:38:57 <albet70> Reader with fmap is function compose?
01:39:32 <monochrom> Yes.
01:44:26 <albet70> :t traverse Right [1..3]
01:44:27 <lambdabot> (Num b, Enum b) => Either a [b]
01:44:41 <albet70> :t print [1..3]
01:44:42 <lambdabot> IO ()
01:45:06 <albet70> :t traverse print [1..3]
01:45:07 <lambdabot> IO [()]
01:46:47 <albet70> is State (,s) a function like Right?
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01:49:17 <albet70> :t traverse (\a -> State $ \s -> (a, s)) [1..3]
01:49:18 <lambdabot> error:
01:49:18 <lambdabot> • Data constructor not in scope: State :: (b0 -> (a0, b0)) -> f b
01:49:18 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
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03:21:37 <dsal> > execState (traverse_ (id += ) [3..9]) 11
03:21:39 <lambdabot> 53
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03:22:28 <Axman6> Feels like an "Evolution of a Haskell programmer" example
03:22:55 <Axman6> "A programmer who has learnt Lens and now can't program without it"
03:24:57 <dsal> There's no other way to add numbers.
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03:26:51 <Axman6> Agreed
03:27:15 <glguy> > 11 &~ traverse_ (id += ) [3..9]
03:27:16 <lambdabot> 53
03:27:31 <jackdk> feels like our version of https://i.stack.imgur.com/ssRUr.gif
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03:28:07 <EvanR> alternatively this is like the witcher using magic to turn off candles
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03:29:11 <Axman6> ... is lens out jQuery?
03:29:14 <Axman6> our*
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03:29:25 <EvanR> oof
03:29:32 <Axman6> big oof
03:30:00 <monochrom> jQuery is a kind of DOM lens so yeah >:)
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03:41:44 <glguy> I suspect the aoc leaderboard won't be needed for another few months
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04:11:53 <juliusdeane> since there are algebraic data types, is it possible to have "rational data types" that are shaped (to some extent) like rational numbers?
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04:16:16 <EvanR> division was described by euclid like for any numbers a and b, there exists q and r < b such that a = b*q + r
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04:16:47 <EvanR> a b q r could be types
04:18:07 <EvanR> s/euclid/my college math professor/
04:18:54 <juliusdeane> ah right
04:20:48 <juliusdeane> I'm having trouble finding literature on the idea since Rational is already a type
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04:21:10 <juliusdeane> the concept doesn't lend itself to {duckduckgo,yandex,etc}-ing
04:21:36 <EvanR> well if that doesn't inspire you, try searching for negative types. Might be interesting
04:24:50 <glguy> IEEE754 types are a mess
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04:30:32 <Inst> hai guys
04:31:15 <Inst> is it me or is the pseudo-imperative component of haskell terrible?
04:31:24 <Inst> or is that just because it's pseudo-imperative?
04:32:01 <c_wraith> I haven't experienced that.
04:32:58 <glguy> The imperative stuff is pretty great, but it's a hassle to use mutable references, at least
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04:36:02 <glguy> Inst: what're you having trouble with?
04:36:10 <Inst> tbh coding with types
04:36:24 <Inst> and the idea that i know do syntax simplifies to lambdas with bind
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04:37:19 <Inst> thing is, I'm abusing TinyFileDialogs, which returns IO (Maybe [Text])
04:37:41 <Inst> I'm trying to create teaching libraries (and I'm a very elementary learner myself)
04:38:05 <Inst> so that students of courses that use the teaching lib can, well, use a graphical UI to create a string for System.IO to hook onto
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04:48:53 <dsal> negative types sounds like something someone would've written an anti-thesis on.
04:49:16 <EvanR> oof
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05:42:39 <Axman6> Inst: not sure I understand the problem you're having
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05:46:53 <Inst> it's mostly my problem
05:46:57 <Inst> do syntax looks imperative, but it's not
05:47:08 <Inst> it's a hack of Haskell's functional system to get IO to be evaluated in an orderly fashion
05:47:29 <Inst> actual problems I'm having? HLS doesn't work for me, for some reason, but I'm running 9.2.1 and 9.2.1 is unsupported
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05:51:48 <EvanR> imperative may just be a way of thinking rather than concrete syntax or mechanism
05:52:17 <glguy> Inst: 'ghcup tui' will show you which versions of GHC are "hls-powered"
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05:53:06 <EvanR> http://conal.net/blog/posts/the-c-language-is-purely-functional
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06:02:17 <dsal> Inst: I use do outside of IO more than within in IO, I think.
06:03:45 <Axman6> just use GHC 9.0
06:04:15 <Axman6> and yeahI feel like I pretty rarely use do notation for IO stuff, it's always other things which eventually get run in IO, and that mark is usually very small
06:04:36 <Axman6> do notation isn't a hack at all
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06:15:44 <jackdk> desugar some `do`-notation by hand to understand what it's doing and it will feel like less of a hack. The `IO` type is principled.
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08:34:25 <Inst> jackdk: thanks, I'm playing around with main written through >>= now
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08:57:57 <sub0> do isn't an IO related hack, it works with any Monad type. any hack, or the lack of, is part of the IO type, not do/monads
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09:11:19 <paolino> hello, I spent some time trying to generalize SafeT with any t that have the same interface, as ResourceT. It is mostly for me to understand better MonadBaseControl.
09:11:32 <paolino> the code is here https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/2229415
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09:23:53 <paolino> I forgot to mention I failed in generalizing so, if anyone has an idea on how to do it it would be really helpful
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09:33:05 <merijn> paolino: Pretty sure you can't
09:33:44 <merijn> ResourceT doesn't really allow for the kinda bracketing that MonadBaseControl does
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11:47:52 <mjrosenb> the hash function provided by hashable... can I expect those hashes to not change from one run to the next?
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11:59:27 <kuribas> mjrosenb: yes
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12:04:35 <mjrosenb> good.
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12:05:08 <mjrosenb> "Randomly initialize the initial seed on each final executable invocation This is useful for catching cases when you rely on (non-existent) stability of hashable's hash functions. This is not a security feature." that comment scared me.
12:07:45 <byorgey> mjrosenb: I think it depends on how much of a guarantee you need that the hashes will not change. For example, I don't think you can rely on them to not change if you compile with a new version of hashable.
12:08:17 <byorgey> mjrosenb: but if you run the same executable multiple times without recompiling in between (and you don't use that flag) the hashes won't change.
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12:10:28 <byorgey> I think that comment just means that hash stability is not a formal guarantee made by the library. They are stable in practice, but if you really need a guarantee of long-term stability (e.g. if you are using hash values as keys in some sort of long-term file storage) then you need to look elsewhere.
12:10:28 <kuribas> mjrosenb: I believe that flag is only for testing.
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12:16:16 <mjrosenb> hrm, I may need to look elsewhere.
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12:17:08 <mjrosenb> I'm planning on using it as part of a game, and changing the hash values will change the behavior of the game.
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12:20:54 <mjrosenb> I kind of suspect this means I'm going to have to implement my own hash algorithm using hashable's interface
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12:21:35 <mjrosenb> I've suspected for a while that I was going to need to roll my own rng if I didn't want the levels to change over time
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12:26:40 <kuribas> mjrosenb: use System.Random then?
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12:27:06 <kuribas> Also, hashable only changes behaviour of you set the flag.
12:27:10 <kuribas> Which is off by default.
12:27:28 <kuribas> It's also supposed to be off.
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12:28:27 <mjrosenb> kuribas: yes, but if the library doesn't guarantee that the hashes won't change from one version to the next, then I can't really use it.
12:28:33 <mjrosenb> same thing for System.Random.
12:29:04 <kuribas> yes, in that case, pick an algorithm.
12:29:10 <kuribas> To be on the safe side.
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12:45:05 <byorgey> mjrosenb: agreed, if I were you I would roll my own. If you look through the changelog for hashable (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hashable-1.4.0.1/changelog) you can see many instances of the Hashable instance behavior changing for various types.
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12:55:25 <merijn> I would never trust the Hashable instances if I had any *specific* needs/requirements, tbh
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13:30:56 <pragma-> Isn't that a weird argument given how Haskell's internals are constantly changing anyway?
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13:32:08 <pragma-> I hear stories often about how a program's runtime characteristics change significantly from one minor ghc version to the next.
13:32:34 <mjrosenb> runtime characteristics, sure... but the actual observable behavior?
13:32:56 <pragma-> Oh.
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13:37:17 hpc uses acme-now, observes that time never changes
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13:41:52 <merijn> pragma-: Hashable does not guarantee, nor provide, any guarantees on "what kinda hash" it produces. It's good enough for stuff like the "program duration"-lifetimes for unordered-containers (although I recall even some pitfalls for that...)
13:42:20 <merijn> pragma-: As opposed to "I hashed this with SHA256 and therefore can rely on SHA256 always getting the same hash in the future"
13:45:39 <pragma-> I see.
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16:24:59 <Boarders_> I am trying to use `build-tool-depends:` and getting an error Unknown field: "build-tool-depends" - anyone have any ideas as to why?
16:25:20 <Boarders_> the cabal version I am using is 2.2 which seems to be sufficient for this feature
16:25:58 <sclv> not sure if cabal 2.2 is sufficient, might try a newer one
16:26:06 <merijn> There's a changelog
16:26:07 <sclv> also check if the cabal file version is high enough
16:26:27 <merijn> Boarders_: "cabal version" <- refering to *spec* or the executable?
16:26:52 <geekosaur> and the Cabal library behind the executable
16:27:00 <merijn> build-tool-depends is spec 2.0
16:27:08 <merijn> sclv: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/file-format-changelog.html#cabal-version-2-0
16:27:23 <merijn> geekosaur: Are those ever not in sync?
16:27:38 <geekosaur> they could be especially early on
16:27:48 <merijn> Boarders_: Can you pastebin your cabal file + error?
16:27:53 <Boarders_> the cabal version I am running is 3.4 and the version in the cabal file is 2.2
16:27:54 <geekosaur> if they're running 2.2 it could easily be they have an older library
16:28:08 <sclv> ok, that sounds right
16:28:16 <geekosaur> oh, 3.4? they'll be in sync
16:28:19 <sclv> you may be using it in the wrong position or the wrong way?
16:28:19 <merijn> Boarders_: Is the field in the right place?
16:28:24 <merijn> sclv: jinx
16:28:47 <Boarders_> probably not, it is from the verbatim of hpack, I'll try manually moving it and seeing if it helps
16:28:53 <merijn> I am predicting build-tool-depends in library component
16:29:14 <Boarders_> it puts it right at the top of the file with build-type etc
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16:30:00 <merijn> Boarders_: That's wrong
16:30:19 <merijn> Boarders_: build-tool-depends field is only acceptable within an executable component
16:30:34 <merijn> as per the link I pasted a bit up
16:30:43 <sclv> i think its acceptable in any component?
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16:30:49 <sclv> its _for_ dependencies on executables
16:31:14 <merijn> ambiguous sentence :p
16:31:22 <sclv> but it only can live in places that build-depends lives
16:31:26 <merijn> "New build-tool-depends field added for adding build-time dependencies of executable components."
16:31:36 <Boarders_> https://gist.github.com/Boarders/a72950d5c283c86b4f26402abdd7fd2e
16:31:40 <Boarders_> here is how the start of the file looks
16:31:43 <merijn> sclv: s/of/on would be clearer if your interpretation is correct
16:31:51 <Boarders_> I removed personal info from it
16:32:08 <merijn> Boarders_: Yeah, I'm pretty confident it can't go on the top level
16:32:09 <sclv> i think build-tool-depends should be inside a component
16:32:14 <merijn> it is definitely per component
16:32:22 <Boarders_> ok cool, I'll try that out
16:32:26 <Boarders_> thanks both!
16:32:34 <sclv> if hpack generates it wrong you may want to file a report, sigh
16:32:39 <sclv> this is why i don't use hpack
16:32:54 <sclv> (well an example of the many reasons why)
16:33:46 <Boarders_> I also don't use it willingly
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16:34:15 <merijn> Boarders_: What's making you use it unwillingly?
16:35:02 <Boarders_> my need to sell my labour for sustenance
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16:35:38 <Boarders_> looks like hpack does the right thing if I just add it to the build-tools
16:36:16 <merijn> Boarders_: If it's just "because work uses stack", you don't have to use hpack with stack either. And "must use hpack" seems a weird requirement from a job :p
16:37:26 <Boarders_> yeah, I'm not sure but it is what we use so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:41:26 <merijn> Boarders_: Can always suggest "hey, maybe we should ditch this?", stack autoruns hpack when a package.yaml is present, but should work just fine if you just turn the package.yaml into a cabal file and just manually edit that from then on
16:41:57 <merijn> Hell, even snoyberg now argues in favour of "commit the generated cabal file to your repo", at which point the package.yaml becomes pretty much vestigial already anyway
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16:51:08 <Boarders_> ah, good to know
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16:53:01 <[itchyjunk]> Prediction (a->b)->[a]->[b]
16:53:03 <[itchyjunk]> :t map
16:53:04 <lambdabot> (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
16:53:09 <[itchyjunk]> nice
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17:08:58 <[itchyjunk]> Exercise was to take a list of string and return the list reversed and the string reversed : https://bpa.st/6YYQ
17:10:31 <monochrom> Perhaps you could benefit from this example.
17:10:45 <[itchyjunk]> I think its wrong :/
17:10:57 <[itchyjunk]> I googled for map exercises and solved it without using map
17:10:59 <[itchyjunk]> fml
17:12:30 <monochrom> Suppose I have a [[Int]] like [[1,4,3], [2,5]], and I want: At the inner level, I want to add 1: [[2,5,4], [1,6]]; at the outer level, I want summing: [2+5+4, 1+6].
17:12:37 <monochrom> Here is how I do it:
17:13:34 <monochrom> > map sum (map (map (+ 1)) [[1,4,3], [2,5]])
17:13:36 <lambdabot> [11,9]
17:14:09 <monochrom> Perhaps that is too many moving parts.
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17:14:23 <monochrom> Suppose I have a [[Int]] like [[1,4,3], [2,5]], and I want: At the inner level, I want to add 1: [[2,5,4], [1,6]]. Just that.
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17:14:39 <monochrom> > map (map (+ 1)) [[1,4,3], [2,5]]
17:14:41 <lambdabot> [[2,5,4],[3,6]]
17:15:03 <monochrom> So, that's how to "push" something "into the inner level".
17:15:29 <[itchyjunk]> hmm
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17:16:09 <monochrom> Err, I guess that exceeds the exercise you have.
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17:16:45 <monochrom> "map reverse [string1, string2]" is how you reverse every string inside.
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17:37:16 <[itchyjunk]> i think i can make sense of the map (map (+1)) [[1,2]] producing [[2,3]]
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17:42:33 <[itchyjunk]> This is how it looks like now : https://bpa.st/BXPA
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17:43:20 <[itchyjunk]> That nested map is still trippy. I'll have to think about it more
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17:45:29 <lechner> Hi, does anyone have an example of how to use the hasql-th quasi-quoter 'vectorStatement' please? I'm not sure how to process the resulting 'Vector rows'. Thanks!
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18:34:11 <sofviic[m]> Alternatively, you could do `map . map` for [[]], `map . map . map` for [[[]]], &c...
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18:50:16 <[itchyjunk]> hmmmm
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22:26:13 <little_mac> hellow
22:26:26 <geekosaur> o/
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22:30:12 <Hecate> §21
22:30:15 <Hecate> o/
22:30:58 <little_mac> are there any bots here?
22:31:11 <tomsmeding> @botsnack
22:31:11 <lambdabot> :)
22:31:11 <DigitalKiwi> i'm not convinced monochrom isn't a bot
22:31:24 <little_mac> oh my
22:31:32 <little_mac> monochrom is this true
22:31:43 <DigitalKiwi> tbf sometimes i'm not convinced i'm not a bot
22:31:56 <little_mac> oh shi
22:32:02 <little_mac> your making me think im a bot
22:32:10 <monochrom> I am a bot. I am not convinced that I am a human.
22:32:12 <DigitalKiwi> youz probs a bot
22:32:39 <little_mac> ohh shnizzle drizzles
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22:43:17 <geekosaur> % :show language
22:43:17 <yahb> geekosaur: base language is: Haskell2010; with the following modifiers:; -XBangPatterns; -XNoCUSKs; -XConstrainedClassMethods; -XConstraintKinds; -XDataKinds; -XNoDatatypeContexts; -XDefaultSignatures; -XDeriveAnyClass; -XDeriveDataTypeable; -XDeriveFoldable; -XDeriveFunctor; -XDeriveGeneric; -XDeriveLift; -XDeriveTraversable; -XDerivingStrategies; -XDerivingVia; -XDisambiguateRecordFields;
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22:48:15 <little_mac> % :show time
22:48:15 <yahb> little_mac: syntax: :show [args | prog | editor | stop | imports | modules | bindings | linker | breaks | context | packages | paths | language | targets]
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23:06:47 <Axman6> lechner: what problem are you having?
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23:14:26 <Axman6> lechner: I assume you know about https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hasql-1.5.0.1/docs/Hasql-Session.html - you can use `run (statement (True,1) [vectorStatement|select foo :: text from "bar"|]) connection` (though I would assign the result of the th to a variable and call that)
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23:19:22 <dsal> little_mac: yahb doesn't have Showtime.
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23:32:04 Axman6 does jazzhands
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23:34:32 <Axman6> ran :show imports in PM, there's a surprising list there - the output got cut off, is there a @where+ equivalent for yahb output?
23:34:56 <geekosaur> use %% and it'll pastebin the result
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23:36:53 <geekosaur> and I think you meant @more?
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23:38:38 <Axman6> ah amazing, thanks (http://qp.mniip.com/y/37 for anyone interested)
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