Logs on 2022-01-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 02:42:28 | <leibniz> | im wondering if i should open a proposal for a superclass but i cant phrase it |
| 02:42:46 | <leibniz> | could anyone help? |
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| 02:43:56 | <leibniz> | oh, i just checked the logs, doesnt look like anyones online |
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| 02:44:52 | <EvanR> | netsplit? |
| 02:45:35 | <leibniz> | im not sure what that is |
| 02:46:07 | <cheater> | it's sunday |
| 02:46:11 | <cheater> | it's normal |
| 02:46:22 | <cheater> | most haskell people are around CET ish |
| 02:46:28 | <cheater> | it's 4 am right now in europe |
| 02:46:36 | <leibniz> | fair |
| 02:47:03 | <leibniz> | does anyone know about monadic lists? |
| 02:47:18 | <cheater> | not me |
| 02:47:23 | <EvanR> | i.e. concatMap ? |
| 02:47:29 | <leibniz> | :t concatMap |
| 02:47:30 | <lambdabot> | Foldable t => (a -> [b]) -> t a -> [b] |
| 02:47:39 | <leibniz> | no thats just Foldable |
| 02:47:40 | <EvanR> | :t concatMap @[] |
| 02:47:41 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 02:47:41 | <lambdabot> | Pattern syntax in expression context: concatMap@[] |
| 02:47:41 | <lambdabot> | Did you mean to enable TypeApplications? |
| 02:47:48 | <EvanR> | yes, I did |
| 02:47:57 | <EvanR> | % :t concatMap @[] |
| 02:47:57 | <leibniz> | oh right, no, not the list monad |
| 02:47:57 | <yahb> | EvanR: (a -> [b]) -> [a] -> [b] |
| 02:48:03 | <leibniz> | i mean when the tail is in a monad |
| 02:48:19 | <leibniz> | eg for trees or server calls |
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| 02:48:56 | <EvanR> | Not sure what you mean |
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| 02:49:25 | <leibniz> | not Foldable t => t a, more like Monad m,Something t => t m a |
| 02:49:53 | <leibniz> | i dont think its just Foldable (t m) |
| 02:50:13 | <EvanR> | what is Something |
| 02:50:20 | <EvanR> | supposed to be |
| 02:50:21 | <leibniz> | idk, thats the proposal |
| 02:50:26 | <EvanR> | ok, make it |
| 02:50:28 | <leibniz> | specifically i think there is some interference with Traversable |
| 02:50:33 | <leibniz> | :t traverse |
| 02:50:34 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) |
| 02:50:54 | <leibniz> | that Applicative f becomes a problem for lazy evaluation |
| 02:51:04 | <leibniz> | if it doesnt commute with the monad |
| 02:51:28 | <leibniz> | i think this motivates some kind of superclass or something but i cant figure it out |
| 02:52:17 | <leibniz> | either you need to make a constraint that the monad and the applicative commute, or you need to only use applicatives like State that commute with arbitrary monads |
| 02:52:36 | <leibniz> | :t mapAccumR |
| 02:52:37 | <lambdabot> | Traversable t => (a -> b -> (a, c)) -> a -> t b -> (a, t c) |
| 02:52:49 | <leibniz> | such as here where StateR is being used |
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| 02:53:43 | <leibniz> | basically thats the proposal in its current form, but i think if i had help it could be made more precise |
| 02:54:11 | <leibniz> | makes sense? |
| 02:55:44 | <leibniz> | seems to only be an issue for tails wrapped in monads |
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| 02:56:41 | <leibniz> | seems quite central to an algebra of stream transducers, ie being able to monoidally compose mapAccumR calls |
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| 02:57:46 | <leibniz> | i think you can call them scanners, from if the state gathers the values returned so far, and outputs them |
| 02:58:07 | <leibniz> | like scan |
| 02:58:29 | <leibniz> | i have to log off now, but ill check back soon to see if anyone has any input |
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| 04:26:43 | <Axman6> | > iterate cos 0.5 |
| 04:26:44 | <lambdabot> | [0.5,0.8775825618903728,0.6390124941652592,0.8026851006823349,0.694778026788... |
| 04:26:53 | <Axman6> | > drop 100 $ iterate cos 0.5 |
| 04:26:54 | <lambdabot> | [0.7390851332151607,0.7390851332151607,0.7390851332151607,0.7390851332151607... |
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| 04:30:17 | <jackdk> | Axman6: I was watching that vid this morning too |
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| 04:33:55 | <Axman6> | ha |
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| 04:39:33 | <ephemient> | fix cos -- /s |
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| 04:59:15 | <EvanR> | > fix cos :: CReal |
| 04:59:17 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: <<loop>> |
| 05:00:26 | <EvanR> | if real numbers are so real how come you've never seen one |
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| 06:08:15 | <c_wraith> | real numbers are one of the more misnamed mathematical constructions. :P |
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| 06:33:19 | <hololeap> | what vid is this? |
| 06:34:33 | <jackdk> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHnXE_h5c2M finding the fix point of `cos` |
| 06:34:58 | <hololeap> | thanks |
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| 06:35:20 | <hololeap> | what is the "dependent" in the package dependent-map? is this related to dependent types? |
| 06:35:33 | <jackdk> | the type of the value depends on the key |
| 06:36:37 | <EvanR> | if you think of a Data.Map as a function from key to value, dependent map is a dependent function from key to value |
| 06:37:02 | <xsperry> | 7 |
| 06:37:14 | <jackdk> | good number, I use it a lot in my work |
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| 06:37:47 | <hololeap> | but is this the same "dependent" that's in dependent types? I understand dependent-map but I haven't understood dependent types |
| 06:38:34 | <hololeap> | just wondering if they're related somehow |
| 06:39:13 | <EvanR> | yeah by dependent function i mean a function with a Pi type |
| 06:39:29 | <EvanR> | where the type of output depends on the input value |
| 06:41:20 | <hololeap> | what I understand of dependent types, is that things like finite-typelits can be expressed more naturally, and with arbitrary types (as opposed to just Nat/Integer). does this relate to what I just described, or am I mistaken? |
| 06:42:43 | <hololeap> | sorry, there's a lot to unpack there. I should probably get some understanding of what dependent types are before asking ths. |
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| 06:46:11 | <hololeap> | as far as dependent-map goes, I am going to use it to parse key-value pairs where different keys have different representations. I'll also have a Text "key" for unmatched representations, and a () (or Comment) key for comments |
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| 06:47:41 | <geekosaur> | I think you're asking for the opposite of dependent-map? you want all the keys to have different types, instead of the values? |
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| 06:48:15 | <hololeap> | no, I phrased that incorrectly, I meant "where different keys have different _value_ representations" |
| 06:49:18 | <geekosaur> | okay, then this may be for you. it's not really dependent types although it's closely related |
| 06:50:18 | <hololeap> | for instance, a key with the text "name" would yield a Name as its value, where "address" would yield an Address as its value |
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| 06:50:55 | <geekosaur> | (I think internally it uses TypeRep and cast from Data.Typeable, so actually it's closer to dynamic typing, but to the extent that each key determines the type of a value, it's more principled than dynamic typing) |
| 06:51:13 | <hololeap> | it doesn't fit very well into the traditional Map representation where all keys are one type and all values are also one type |
| 06:52:33 | <awpr> | it does seem applicable here, but is there some reason this can't be just a record? I guess accepting arbitrary orderings of fields could be fiddly if not using a map to accumulate them |
| 06:53:00 | <geekosaur> | also partial records are a PITA |
| 06:53:16 | <hololeap> | yes, and there may be multiple lines of the same field with different values, and the values need to be appended |
| 06:54:08 | <hololeap> | for instance: Address: 123 Main St -- this may be one of multiple "Address:" lines |
| 06:54:18 | <awpr> | doesn't seem to be a problem for a record, especially if zero lines of a given field should be an empty value in whatever monoid |
| 06:54:31 | <geekosaur> | yeh, at that point it sounds like a record oflists |
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| 06:55:26 | <awpr> | (or HKD record where you collect everything and then validate that all the required bits were set at the end) |
| 06:56:02 | <hololeap> | so accumulate it into a record of Text, and then split it into different types later? |
| 06:56:41 | <geekosaur> | no, you accumulate it into a record of typed fields, you just initialize all of those fields to [] or whatever before parsing |
| 06:56:42 | <awpr> | `data Thing = Thing { address :: Text, phones :: [IntOrSomething] }` |
| 06:56:58 | <geekosaur> | this assumes you know all the types up front; if you don't then you may be back to a dependent map |
| 06:57:08 | <geekosaur> | but then if you don't it may be difficult to work with anyway |
| 06:57:12 | <awpr> | also assumes finitely many fields / a fixed set of fields |
| 06:57:27 | <hololeap> | ok so they all have to be monoids and are initialized with mempty |
| 06:57:48 | <hololeap> | all the fields |
| 06:57:48 | <awpr> | yeah, that's one option, if it makes sense for them all to be accreted monoidally from each KV entry |
| 06:58:21 | <hololeap> | that's basically what I'm doing, is a mappend operation from each line that comes in |
| 06:58:48 | <hololeap> | ok, that makes sense |
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| 07:00:59 | <hololeap> | I was imagining this as one giant Map with different types, but it makes sense to create a sum of Maps, each with different types |
| 07:01:20 | <hololeap> | or something like that |
| 07:02:02 | <hololeap> | it doesn't even have to be a map since it already has |
| 07:02:10 | <hololeap> | "keys" by being a record |
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| 07:05:45 | <hololeap> | is it preferable to run a parser library on individual lines, or give it the whole input and break it into lines within the library? |
| 07:07:56 | <dsal> | aLine `endBy` "\n" |
| 07:08:55 | <dsal> | Though, it depends, I guess. I run attoparsec on a line at a time in a line based streaming protocol. |
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| 07:11:41 | <hololeap> | with something like megaparsec, there might be context if I do the line breaks within the library |
| 07:12:41 | <hololeap> | so if a parse error occurs I get more data |
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| 07:26:08 | <jackdk> | hololeap: Ed's given a couple of talks on Monoidal Parsing, and what you have to do to a language design to make it amenable to fast parsing |
| 07:26:50 | <jackdk> | there's a 42 min keynote from scala world (in Haskell) and a 90min talk at Boston Haskell which I haven't watched |
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| 08:12:41 | <earthy> | 'do to a language' or to a grammar? |
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| 10:08:11 | <DaringJoker> | Hey everyone, what is a good way to learn haskell . is there is some sort of exercises that could be seen as assessments to help me in the way of learning haskell? been learning for last few months. still do not feel confident enough with the language. |
| 10:18:30 | <merijn> | @where exercises |
| 10:18:30 | <lambdabot> | http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/H-99:_Ninety-Nine_Haskell_Problems https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell http://www.reddit.com/r/dailyprogrammer/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programmingchallenges/ |
| 10:18:47 | <merijn> | There's also the Advent of Code of previous years, of course |
| 10:19:12 | <merijn> | DaringJoker: Although I don't think any of those are really assessments of how well you understand Haskell |
| 10:19:55 | <merijn> | DaringJoker: In the end "just build something, get stuck, ask for help to figure out why, repeat" is the most effective way to test understanding :) |
| 10:21:33 | <DaringJoker> | thank you |
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| 10:24:05 | <DaringJoker> | also which book would you suggest to beginners "learn you a haskell for greater good" or "haskell programming from first principles" ? |
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| 10:26:44 | <merijn> | Not the first one |
| 10:27:09 | <DaringJoker> | any other than those two? |
| 10:27:11 | <merijn> | Learn You a Haskell is nice as a sort of "quick overview and intro", but it doesn't really teach you a lot about actually *writing* code |
| 10:27:17 | <merijn> | @where books |
| 10:27:17 | <lambdabot> | https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books, see also @where LYAH, RWH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, HTAC, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH, non-haskell-books |
| 10:27:23 | <merijn> | @where PIH |
| 10:27:23 | <lambdabot> | "Programming in Haskell" by Graham Hutton in 2007-01-15,2016-09-01 at <http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~pszgmh/pih.html> |
| 10:27:35 | <merijn> | @where TFwH |
| 10:27:35 | <lambdabot> | "Thinking Functionally with Haskell" by Richard Bird in Oct 2014 at <http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/publications/books/functional/> |
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| 10:29:34 | <DaringJoker> | Thank you merijn |
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| 13:14:05 | <wmacmil> | when working with a cabal executable operating on text files, i.e. /app/Main.hs, can one specify in the .cabal file the location of the text files, /text/foo.txt |
| 13:15:23 | <wmacmil> | so that one merely just hast to specify foo = "foo.txt" :: FilePath |
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| 13:24:52 | <merijn> | wmacmil: "It Depends (TM)" |
| 13:30:07 | <wmacmil> | i mean i can just append everything with text/*, but just wondering *best practices* |
| 13:30:23 | <geekosaur> | wmacmil, usually one uses the (generated if referenced) Paths module for this. https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-package.html#accessing-data-files-from-package-code |
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| 13:34:08 | <wmacmil> | thanks! |
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| 13:59:16 | <wmacmil> | is there a way to interface hoogle with Dante |
| 13:59:30 | <wmacmil> | so that one never has to leave the emacs terminal |
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| 14:00:00 | <geekosaur> | I thought dante was dead/unsupported |
| 14:01:34 | <geekosaur> | "Dante offers no support for eldoc (but can show type signatures in the minibuffer by modifying the variable: dante-tap-type-time), nor Hoogle." |
| 14:02:23 | <Hecate> | damn I thought we were talking about network protocols all of a sudden |
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| 14:06:12 | <wmacmil> | :/ |
| 14:06:26 | <wmacmil> | i've been using dante and it works just fine |
| 14:07:05 | <wmacmil> | but just out of curiousity, what are other ide-type development setups compatible with emacs/spacemacs? |
| 14:07:07 | <geekosaur> | probably does, but it's limited. there's an lsp-mode in emacs iirc, then you can use hls as the language server |
| 14:07:38 | <geekosaur> | in fact I thought spacemacs came with that setup enabled |
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| 14:28:53 | <polyphem> | wmacmil: thers also : https://github.com/lazamar/haskell-docs-cli |
| 14:29:11 | <polyphem> | wmacmil: if it suits your environment |
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| 15:58:46 | <Athas> | Is something wrong with 'cabal update'? It finishes very quickly and gives me an index-state from the 1st of December 2021. |
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| 16:00:47 | <sclv> | Athas: check if you're actually pointing at hackage and don't have any weird caching proxies inbetween? |
| 16:00:55 | <jkaye> | Worked for me this morning |
| 16:01:12 | <sclv> | just worked for me. but any proxy between you and hackage might screw up things |
| 16:01:23 | <Athas> | My $HOME/.cabal.config points at http://hackage.haskell.org/. |
| 16:01:38 | <sclv> | right -- but do you have any network proxies in place? |
| 16:01:52 | <Athas> | I guess there might be an intermediate proxy (I'm on a university network), but it'd have to be a recent screwup. It has worked for years. |
| 16:02:06 | <sclv> | you can also try passing different --http-transport args which might work around that? |
| 16:02:31 | <Athas> | https://hackage.haskell.org/timestamp.json gives me something sensible (that is, recent). |
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| 16:03:23 | <Athas> | From what I can see, cabal downloads that file and then concludes everything is OK. |
| 16:03:25 | <geekosaur> | just worked for me |
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| 16:10:01 | <Athas> | Blasting my ~/.cabal fixed it. I'm guessing some cache or state got corrupted. |
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| 16:10:26 | <Athas> | Or I just enabled Groundhog Day mode somehow. |
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| 16:51:23 | <sprout> | > pow |
| 16:51:25 | <lambdabot> | error: Variable not in scope: pow |
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| 16:53:24 | <xerox> | :t (**) |
| 16:53:25 | <lambdabot> | Floating a => a -> a -> a |
| 16:53:33 | <xerox> | :t (^) |
| 16:53:34 | <lambdabot> | (Integral b, Num a) => a -> b -> a |
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| 17:00:54 | <geekosaur> | :t (^^) |
| 17:00:55 | <lambdabot> | (Fractional a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a |
| 17:01:22 | <val-host> | :t (id) |
| 17:01:23 | <lambdabot> | a -> a |
| 17:01:40 | <jackson99> | @src id |
| 17:01:40 | <lambdabot> | id x = x |
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| 17:07:38 | <sprout> | > 0 ** 0 |
| 17:07:39 | <lambdabot> | 1.0 |
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| 17:19:00 | <xerox> | is this a bug in my own installation or is it the same for you all? you install a ghc, open the local copy of the ghc user guide from the installed docs, then search anything—it just hangs, without ever returning search results |
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| 17:20:23 | <monochrom> | No. GHC 8.10.7. I searched "forall", got fairly good results too. |
| 17:21:11 | <geekosaur> | hm. I tried 9.2.1 as installed from ghcup and there was no user's guide :( |
| 17:21:28 | <monochrom> | Yeah I can't test 9.2.1 because of that :) |
| 17:21:51 | <monochrom> | But "vacuously no problem" is true :) |
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| 17:22:34 | <geekosaur> | search works fine for me in 8.10.7 though |
| 17:23:32 | <geekosaur> | 9.0.2 also missing user's guide |
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| 17:27:35 | <delYsid> | I wrote my first data structure (ok, sort of) with instances and stuff :-) It was a really neat learning experience, but I am fully aware this likely already exists. I havent found it yet though. Anyone care to tell me what package this is isomorphic to? https://blind.guru/ListMap.hs |
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| 17:30:23 | <xerox> | delYsid: nice, what do you use it for? |
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| 17:30:48 | <delYsid> | xerox: I'd like to use it to do key sequences in Brick. |
| 17:31:11 | <delYsid> | Basically an imitation of how Emacs keymaps work. |
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| 17:32:05 | <xerox> | deeper levels are for stuff like C-M-x ? |
| 17:32:16 | <sshine> | delYsid, I don't think I've seen that before. |
| 17:32:30 | <geekosaur> | more like C-x v, I think |
| 17:32:36 | <sshine> | delYsid, it resembles a trie. |
| 17:32:57 | <delYsid> | interesting, it looks so obvious once its implemented, I would be surprised if it hadn't been invented yet. |
| 17:33:35 | <sshine> | delYsid, there might be reasons why you'd wish to nest ListMaps in a very explicit way as you do, i.e., you nest your configuration in a modular way, and you can load configurations and embed them into nested key-combination scopes, if that's what they're used for. |
| 17:33:38 | <delYsid> | xerox: C-h v, or any kind of sequence of keystrokes. |
| 17:34:05 | <sshine> | delYsid, but you could also flatten a ListMap, either into a plain Map, or into a trie. |
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| 17:34:40 | <geekosaur> | I should have used C-x v v as my example, since it's an actual emacs command :) |
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| 17:36:18 | <sshine> | do any of you use kmonad? |
| 17:36:37 | <geekosaur> | no, although I'm aware of it |
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| 18:01:41 | <slack1256> | Does a function exist that maps from a 6-tuple of (years, months, days, hours, minutes, seconds) to a `NominalDiffTime`? I can do it myself but I wonder if that already exists somewhere in `time`? |
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| 18:03:48 | <jkaye> | slack1256, that would be a little weird since NominalDiffTime is a length of time and not a point in time |
| 18:04:09 | <slack1256> | Exactly, it is an interval. |
| 18:04:52 | <slack1256> | That 6-tuple is an interval of time |
| 18:04:55 | <monochrom> | "1 year" may be 365 days or 366 days. Would you like the average? |
| 18:05:00 | <jkaye> | How does it know about leap days/seconds? |
| 18:05:15 | <jkaye> | I think you are falling prey to https://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-time |
| 18:05:39 | <monochrom> | "1 month" is even more interesting... |
| 18:06:01 | <jkaye> | monochrom, when you're right, you're right :) |
| 18:06:02 | <slack1256> | I got this representation of the postgres Interval type. The graphql query generates the the 6-tuple. |
| 18:06:39 | <slack1256> | Even if I am falling prey or whatever, I just wanted to know if somebody had done this work so I don't duplicate the logic. |
| 18:07:03 | <jkaye> | I don't think you're understanding |
| 18:07:14 | <monochrom> | I don't know whether someone has done this. I bet no. |
| 18:07:23 | <jkaye> | That 6-tuple does not map to a NominalDiffTime without making some serious (probably wrong) assumptions |
| 18:07:33 | <monochrom> | But even if yes, I bet you will not be duplicating. Everyone resolves my questions differently. |
| 18:07:55 | <monochrom> | (All are wrong, but *shrug*) |
| 18:09:06 | <monochrom> | (We're now in the territory of "since a famous FOSS program does it, so I'll do it", so every reason why they're doing it wrong will fall on deaf ears.) |
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| 18:09:58 | <jkaye> | The issue isn't the Interval, it's trying to convert the Interval to a number of seconds, which is impossible without knowing what you're comparing the Interval to |
| 18:10:19 | <jkaye> | (impossible in the general case, without assumptions etc.) |
| 18:10:20 | <monochrom> | (Recall also in the corporate world, if you buy from Microsoft or IBM, you "can't go wrong", in the sense that when it's wrong, no one will blame you, "IBM and MS can't be wrong".) |
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| 18:10:52 | <monochrom> | (See how the altruistic FOSS people and the greedy capitalists think alike?) |
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| 18:16:38 | <monochrom> | Oh haha, CalenderDiffDays and CalenderDiffTime exist. |
| 18:17:01 | <monochrom> | Perhaps just use those instead of NominalDiffTime. |
| 18:18:06 | <hpc> | i bet that's probably why NominalDiffTime isn't just called DiffTime |
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| 18:19:07 | <monochrom> | Oh, that one is just about leap seconds. |
| 18:19:26 | <jkaye> | Yep, I think the ISO8601 instance for CalendarDiffTime would map to the postgres interval type |
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| 18:20:09 | <hpc> | oh huh, DiffTime exists too |
| 18:20:28 | <hpc> | shows what i know, i try and avoid timekeeping as much as i possibly can |
| 18:21:39 | <sprout> | https://egel-language.blogspot.com/2022/01/hindley-milner-inference-is-not-that.html |
| 18:21:49 | <sprout> | ^ a small critique. maybe of interest to Haskellers |
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| 18:23:32 | <jkaye> | For me at least, that doesn't explain quite enough. I'd be interested in understanding it better, but I didn't come away with much from reading that |
| 18:23:34 | <monochrom> | It is an ignorant critique. Probably also barking up the wrong tree. |
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| 18:24:51 | <sprout> | that must be it! |
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| 18:28:11 | <monochrom> | The example rule T-Lam is among the rules for checking, not inference. You have to hand-annotated everything, and then the rules prove that you are right/wrong. |
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| 18:29:15 | <monochrom> | Type inference is an entirely different algorithm. How to invent that algorithm in the first place is not helped by merely having inductive-style rules. |
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| 18:30:07 | <monochrom> | Dependent typing proves that just because you have inductive proof rules doesn't mean an inference algorithm even exists, let alone inventing one. |
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| 18:31:14 | <monochrom> | I believe that the author also misunderstands at least one of: bisimulation proofs, Algol type checking. |
| 18:32:18 | <monochrom> | I think that Algol type checking needs only the inductive-style checking that the author is so sick of. |
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| 18:35:42 | <sprout> | no way |
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| 18:40:58 | <monochrom> | Hell, Algol type checking is definitely by induction not bisimulation. |
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| 18:41:38 | <monochrom> | Bisimulation is inappropriate for: 1. finite things; 2. trees |
| 18:41:48 | <monochrom> | An Algol AST is both. |
| 18:41:57 | <dolio> | The description of "bisimulation" sounds like the difference between checking and inference, really. |
| 18:42:29 | <sprout> | 'postulate' comes straight from Algol vernacular. the K-algorithm |
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| 18:42:37 | <dolio> | Like, when you see `f x` you make an additional assumption about the type of `f`, even if it wasn't inductively derivable from the term. |
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| 18:57:22 | <qrpnxz> | is there a way to slice a Data.Array zero-copy? |
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| 18:57:53 | <c_wraith> | how would that even work with (Int, Int) as an index type? |
| 18:59:20 | <monochrom> | Perhaps ixmap does not copy (or whatever overhead you're trying to avoid). But I haven't checked. |
| 18:59:24 | <qrpnxz> | translating indices |
| 18:59:39 | <qrpnxz> | i thought ixmap didn't copy, but it calls `array` so i think it does |
| 18:59:48 | <monochrom> | OK yeah. |
| 18:59:58 | <qrpnxz> | ixmap might not be a simple index shift, so it makes sense |
| 19:00:31 | <qrpnxz> | even so, i did expect it to just get wrapped in something, or use Array internal details to not copy |
| 19:00:35 | <qrpnxz> | but i guess not |
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| 19:10:36 | <qrpnxz> | i suppose a drop + take is the next best thing |
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| 19:33:04 | <qrpnxz> | or i should just use data.vector already |
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| 19:50:13 | <qrpnxz> | ooooh, i always thought of applicative as pure and <*>, but liftA2 is cool too! Lifting a two argument function gets you thinking about general pairwise combination, where application is a special case. `id` being able to type (a -> b -> c) into ((b -> c) -> b -> c) hence giving you `<*>` is pretty neat too. Currying super power strickes again. Similar trick occurs with `fix`. |
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| 19:53:29 | <[exa]> | qrpnxz: try `drop<>take` btw |
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| 20:04:34 | <qrpnxz> | doing `take a . drop b` |
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| 20:06:10 | <Shiranai> | hello, how would you guys compute the list of all substring of a string? i.e. `substrs "abc" == ["a","b","c","ab","bc","abc"]` |
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| 20:07:51 | <monochrom> | Something about inits and tails |
| 20:08:10 | <monochrom> | > (map inits . tails) "abc" |
| 20:08:11 | <lambdabot> | [["","a","ab","abc"],["","b","bc"],["","c"],[""]] |
| 20:08:32 | <monochrom> | ah need a concat |
| 20:09:23 | <Shiranai> | > (filter (not null) . concat . map inits . tails) "abcd" |
| 20:09:24 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 20:09:24 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[Char] -> Bool’ |
| 20:09:24 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘Bool’ |
| 20:09:50 | <tomsmeding> | > (([] :) . concat . map (tail . inits) . tails) "abc" |
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| 20:09:51 | <lambdabot> | ["","a","ab","abc","b","bc","c"] |
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| 20:10:35 | <tomsmeding> | > (filter (not . null) . concat . map inits . tails) "abc" |
| 20:10:37 | <lambdabot> | ["a","ab","abc","b","bc","c"] |
| 20:10:42 | <tomsmeding> | heh misses the [] |
| 20:11:13 | <Shiranai> | beautiful! Thanks guys |
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| 20:12:43 | <tomsmeding> | > (([] :) <$> fmap concat (fmap (fmap tail inits) <$> tails)) "abc" |
| 20:12:44 | <lambdabot> | ["","a","ab","abc","b","bc","c"] |
| 20:13:10 | <geekosaur> | isn't there a map [False,True] thing? I mean, this looks like a powerset |
| 20:13:31 | <tomsmeding> | > subsequences "abc" |
| 20:13:32 | <lambdabot> | ["","a","b","ab","c","ac","bc","abc"] |
| 20:13:33 | <tomsmeding> | not the same thing |
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| 20:33:25 | <sshine> | can I write (\x -> f x && g x) in a point-free but short-circuiting way? |
| 20:34:17 | <maerwald> | why |
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| 20:34:29 | <sshine> | because I'm curious :) |
| 20:34:31 | <Yehoshua> | Arrow's `&&&` |
| 20:34:31 | <Yehoshua> | Might be a starting point. |
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| 20:35:29 | <Yehoshua> | (f &&& g) x |
| 20:35:29 | <Yehoshua> | Is the same as (in this case) |
| 20:35:29 | <Yehoshua> | (f x, g x) |
| 20:35:30 | <monochrom> | liftA2 (&&) f g expands to (\x -> f x && g x) using the (->)e Applicative instance. |
| 20:35:44 | <awpr> | :t getAll (All . even <> All . odd) |
| 20:35:45 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 20:35:45 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘All’ with actual type ‘a0 -> All’ |
| 20:35:45 | <lambdabot> | • Probable cause: ‘(<>)’ is applied to too few arguments |
| 20:35:49 | <awpr> | :t getAll . (All . even <> All . odd) |
| 20:35:50 | <lambdabot> | Integral a => a -> Bool |
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| 20:36:37 | <Yehoshua> | :t liftA2 (&&) |
| 20:36:38 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f Bool -> f Bool -> f Bool |
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| 20:36:50 | <roboguy22> | > liftA2 (&&) even undefined 3 |
| 20:36:52 | <lambdabot> | False |
| 20:36:57 | <roboguy22> | > liftA2 (&&) even undefined 2 |
| 20:36:59 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.undefined |
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| 20:44:53 | <lechner> | that (inits . tails) thing for substrings is very elegant |
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| 20:52:58 | <lechner> | why isn't it ... map inits (tails "abc") ? |
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| 20:55:03 | <geekosaur> | those do different things, don't they? tails only happens once with yours but on each element with the other |
| 20:55:36 | <tomsmeding> | lechner: but it is, right? (map inits . tails) "abc" = (\x -> map inits (tails x)) "abc" = map inits (tails "abc") |
| 20:55:43 | <Yehoshua> | > inits <$> (tails "abc") |
| 20:55:44 | <lambdabot> | [["","a","ab","abc"],["","b","bc"],["","c"],[""]] |
| 20:56:24 | <geekosaur> | but that's (map inits . tails), not map (inits . tails) |
| 20:56:55 | <tomsmeding> | indeed, but the correct solution had 'map inits . tails' -- I assumed lechner meant that |
| 20:57:26 | <geekosaur> | in that case it's just being pointfree |
| 20:57:34 | <geekosaur> | some people prefer that, some the other |
| 20:57:44 | <Yehoshua> | > map (inits . tails) "abc" |
| 20:57:45 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 20:57:45 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match type ‘Char’ with ‘[a]’ |
| 20:57:45 | <lambdabot> | Expected type: [[a]] |
| 20:57:57 | <Yehoshua> | lambdabot: Thought so. |
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| 20:58:13 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I wondered about that one briefly as well "wouldn't thst have to be a list of lists?" |
| 20:59:07 | <tomsmeding> | lechner: exercise, write my first version without (.) |
| 20:59:32 | <Yehoshua> | > map (map inits . tails) "abc" |
| 20:59:33 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 20:59:33 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match type ‘Char’ with ‘[a]’ |
| 20:59:33 | <lambdabot> | Expected type: [[a]] |
| 20:59:58 | <Yehoshua> | (map inits . tails) "abc" |
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| 21:00:09 | <Yehoshua> | > (map inits . tails) "abc" |
| 21:00:10 | <lambdabot> | [["","a","ab","abc"],["","b","bc"],["","c"],[""]] |
| 21:00:41 | <Yehoshua> | Which is already exactly the previous thing. |
| 21:00:48 | <Yehoshua> | <Yehoshua> "> inits <$> (tails "abc")" <- . |
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| 21:10:15 | <trccc> | I would like to do some Haskell development whenever I have time, which is not too often unfortunately. Any ideas on where to find “exercises” to do? I am between beginner and intermediate and I need to get a handle on making “production” applications that considers details such as e.g. logging. The end goal is to introduce Haskell at my |
| 21:10:16 | <trccc> | workplace |
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| 21:11:02 | <geekosaur> | didn't stick around for an answer… |
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| 21:13:22 | <maerwald> | "introduce Haskell at my workplace" <-- makes me shiver :p |
| 21:13:53 | <trccc> | In a bad or good way? 🙂 have a lot of non-critical services |
| 21:14:26 | <sm> | ha! the old you thought I left trick! |
| 21:14:35 | <maerwald> | It usually means people need a new toy at work. My opinion is that you shouldn't toy around at work. |
| 21:15:03 | <geekosaur> | they rejoined 3 minutes later. odd thing to do after asking a question |
| 21:15:05 | <sm> | trccc there's a lot of such things online now |
| 21:15:23 | <trccc> | Geekosaur yes sorry bout that |
| 21:15:50 | <geekosaur> | of course I sometimes do that because my router decided to fall over yet again |
| 21:15:58 | <sm> | and don't let the #haskell channel talk you out of it :) |
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| 21:16:05 | <trccc> | Hehe |
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| 21:16:56 | <trccc> | am any in particular? The ones I tried before (couple of years ago) sort of ignored the packages out there that one needs to get something done |
| 21:17:04 | <trccc> | sm* |
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| 21:18:15 | <Yehoshua> | I didn't actually do it myself, but found for someone else: |
| 21:18:15 | <Yehoshua> | https://exercism.org/tracks/haskell |
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| 21:18:46 | <Yehoshua> | I have no idea if it gets out of the core language however |
| 21:19:08 | <trccc> | Yehoshua I Will check it out. Thanks. That is exactly my concern |
| 21:19:31 | <sm> | trccc, no none in particular, I would to a very wide skim of blogs and books |
| 21:19:38 | <sm> | @where books |
| 21:19:38 | <lambdabot> | https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books, see also @where LYAH, RWH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, HTAC, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH, non-haskell-books |
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| 21:19:58 | <sm> | https://planet.haskell.org |
| 21:20:19 | <Yehoshua> | https://exercism.org/tracks/haskell/exercises/lens-person |
| 21:20:19 | <Yehoshua> | Seems to have at least lens (did a quick look) |
| 21:20:24 | <sm> | I'm partial to |
| 21:20:24 | <sm> | @where HTAC |
| 21:20:24 | <lambdabot> | "Haskell Tutorial and Cookbook" by Mark Watson in 2017-09-04 at <https://leanpub.com/haskell-cookbook> |
| 21:20:26 | <Yehoshua> | Maybe others too |
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| 21:20:40 | <EvanR> | marches in to your work area with two nasty looking goons, "we will be instituting er introducing haskell at your workplace" |
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| 21:21:01 | <trccc> | Hehe |
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| 21:22:38 | <trccc> | Thank you. Think I had enough ideas to get startes from. |
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| 23:51:39 | <Axman6> | Is there a name in lens for the function which takes Traversal s t a b, (a -> m b) and s and gives back m t? I know it's just `traversal func s` but it feels weird using it's sort of hidden structure |
| 23:52:13 | <Axman6> | @hoogle Traversal s t a b -> (a -> m b) -> s -> m t -- probably should've done this first |
| 23:52:13 | <lambdabot> | No results found |
| 23:52:17 | <dibblego> | id |
| 23:54:05 | <Axman6> | just wondering if it has a more... semantic? name |
| 23:54:39 | <Axman6> | looks like traverseOf |
| 23:54:53 | <Axman6> | traverseOf :: LensLike f s t a b -> (a -> f b) -> s -> f t |
| 23:54:53 | <Axman6> | traverseOf = id |
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