Logs on 2022-02-13 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:03:35 | <int-e> | geekosaur: oh I thought you were alluding to the +Q user mode. |
| 00:04:01 | <geekosaur> | no, to the $##fix-your-connection |
| 00:04:02 | <int-e> | (which causes forwards to be ignored) |
| 00:04:11 | <geekosaur> | sadly quiet does nothing to silence joins/parts |
| 00:04:19 | <geekosaur> | ah |
| 00:04:34 | <int-e> | cf. https://libera.chat/guides/usermodes ...but apparently that's not in play |
| 00:04:50 | <geekosaur> | that mode can't be assigned by non-ops, so I'd really hope they don't have it |
| 00:05:32 | <int-e> | ? it's a user mode. It's not ignoring the ban, just the forward part of it. |
| 00:06:00 | <int-e> | Anyway, I just misunderstood what you meant by "ignore". |
| 00:06:33 | ChanServ | sets mode +o litharge |
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| 00:55:03 | <prolic> | hi |
| 00:55:21 | <geekosaur> | hi |
| 00:55:32 | <prolic> | would someone willing to help me out with a problem here? |
| 00:55:42 | <geekosaur> | don't ask to ask, just ask |
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| 00:55:57 | <prolic> | I forked secp256k1-haskell in order to re-add support for schnorr signatures |
| 00:56:12 | <prolic> | I managed to get "stack build" to compile everything |
| 00:56:45 | <prolic> | however "stack test" complains about CPP bindings: error: undefined reference to 'secp256k1_xonly_pubkey_create' |
| 00:57:04 | <prolic> | I have no idea what went wrong |
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| 00:58:40 | <prolic> | https://github.com/prolic/secp256k1-schnorr/tree/test_refactor |
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| 01:06:06 | <geekosaur> | not seeing anything immediately except a potential confusion: LANGUAGE CPP doesn't seem to be being used |
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| 01:10:33 | <geekosaur> | the only thing that comes to mind is that you might be better off using capi instead of ccall |
| 01:10:47 | <geekosaur> | it handles various things better than ccall does |
| 01:11:18 | <geekosaur> | including "functions" that are actually preprocessor macros, which ccall won't be able to find at all |
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| 01:16:17 | <prolic> | mh |
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| 01:23:48 | <geekosaur> | also, if it's not clear, LANGUAGE CPP has nothing to do with C++; it means to run the Haskell source through the C preprocessor. You don't have any preprocessor usage in that file, so I don't see what LANGUAGE CPP is supposed to be getting you.) |
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| 01:26:30 | <prolic> | LANGUAGE CPP was previously used in that file |
| 01:26:41 | <prolic> | the fact that it's enabled is not my problem |
| 01:27:41 | <prolic> | it's a fork of https://github.com/haskoin/secp256k1-haskell (to re-add schnorr sigs) |
| 01:28:16 | <prolic> | whatever code they have is working, I assume it's correct, I forked it, just re-enabled a bunch of code they deleted |
| 01:28:25 | <prolic> | and suddenly nothing compiles |
| 01:29:26 | <prolic> | your suggestions might be helpful in another scenario, but I am not going to refactor ccall to capi, or anything alike, when all I want is to get the damn test-suite running again and I know it must be one line error somewhere that I cannot see at the moment |
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| 01:32:02 | <geekosaur> | I don't know that, especially since I just searched the secp256k1 repo and the only reference to that function is the commit that added schnorrsig |
| 01:33:00 | <geekosaur> | making me wonder if it's missing because you don't have the (optional) schnorr support enabled, or because you need to use capi to get access to it |
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| 01:48:15 | <janus> | you can use ccall, they don't use varargs |
| 01:48:25 | <janus> | i added that schnorrsig support but they have since changed the interface, i think |
| 01:48:31 | <janus> | so even if it compiles, it will break horribly |
| 01:48:39 | <janus> | (i know prolic is gone now) |
| 01:49:05 | <janus> | anyway the cardano people also want schnorrsig support, so why not just wait for them to write it |
| 01:50:51 | <janus> | i prefer the way russell o'connor is doing it in simplicity though. afaik he exposes field primitives for those that really want to make their own algos |
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| 02:19:55 | <geekosaur> | thank you. I did go through the upstream codebase and it left me thinking that API had simply been removed |
| 02:20:14 | <geekosaur> | but I was kinda through with prolic's attitude tbh |
| 02:21:01 | <geekosaur> | (also varargs isn't the only reason to use capi, and in fact ghc devs are now recommending capi over ccall as best practice) |
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| 02:23:03 | <sm> | OT: https://github.com/martinvonz/jj is a rather nice git-like VCS |
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| 02:24:44 | <janus> | i want that fancy ass AST-based vcs that jonathan edwards shows in https://vimeo.com/631461226 |
| 02:28:57 | <janus> | yes it is true that prolic didn't have the best attitude. a validating data point for the crypto haters :P |
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| 03:56:22 | <prolic> | hi again, I have an idea regarding my problem decribed before, hopefully somebody of you guys know. |
| 03:56:49 | <prolic> | if I "apt remove libsecp256k1" from my system, the compiler fails immediately. |
| 03:57:04 | <prolic> | so I tried compiling this lib from source, latest version |
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| 03:57:36 | <prolic> | now stack still cannot find the lib, even though I just installed it again, path /usr/local/lib, so should be good, IMHO |
| 03:57:55 | <jackdk> | prolic: here are some messages you missed, which may be relevant https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/VQ8D2121/ |
| 03:58:03 | <prolic> | with installed again, I mean "make install" after compiling from source, not via apt of course |
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| 03:59:39 | <prolic> | thanks janus, I fear that I don't have time to wait for cardano people to deliver, if they even started working on it |
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| 04:03:46 | <sm> | slackers! prolic doesn't have time for your lollygagging ! |
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| 04:08:44 | <prolic> | lol, you might have gotten that one wrong |
| 04:09:30 | <prolic> | I'm just asking for very specific help, just wait a few years until somebody else did it is not an option for an programmer, because I will do it, obviously |
| 04:10:13 | <prolic> | if someone can point me to how to use self-compiled c-libs within haskell, that would be great |
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| 04:28:04 | <sm> | prolic: I'm not understanding that question exactly. it sounds like you're pretty close if the main package builds. when was it last released ? tried their issue tracker / maintainer ? |
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| 04:34:40 | <janus> | prolic: have you seen the issue i posted on your bug tracker? |
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| 05:13:05 | <prolic> | yes, thanks janus |
| 05:13:13 | <prolic> | will get back to it tomorrow |
| 05:13:18 | <prolic> | good night |
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| 05:42:30 | <hololeap> | does anyone know how to disable a doctest without changing the way it renders? |
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| 05:46:37 | <hololeap> | I've got some doctests that I'm trying to edit so that they don't make network calls. some rely on an internet connection that breaks gentoo's sandbox |
| 05:48:36 | <hololeap> | for instance: https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-haskell/blob/ecef9b7daf5bb16d2678a7c973406fbc78731d19/dhall/src/Dhall/Tutorial.hs#L378 |
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| 06:05:43 | <pavonia> | I really hope there is a flag to disable those network calls O.o |
| 06:06:09 | <jackdk> | I would skip doctests in my packaging, personally |
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| 06:08:55 | <sm> | disable without changing how it renders ? do you mean an easy way to comment out a doctest ? |
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| 06:12:56 | <hololeap> | sm: I mean disabling the test itself without changing the way it renders in haddock |
| 06:13:38 | <sm> | does it render specially in haddock ? How about s/>>>/#>>>/ |
| 06:14:38 | <sm> | or s/>>>/>>> -- / |
| 06:14:52 | <sm> | just guessing |
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| 06:17:32 | <hololeap> | sm: search for "directly into Haskell" here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dhall-1.40.2/docs/Dhall-Tutorial.html |
| 06:17:46 | <hololeap> | you can see the source code here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dhall-1.40.2/docs/src/Dhall.Tutorial.html#line-146 |
| 06:18:24 | <hololeap> | doctest might have some intended way to do this |
| 06:19:08 | <hololeap> | but that is how doctest renders the tests |
| 06:19:13 | <sm> | I don't think so, I'd just try things some things locally till it looks right |
| 06:19:27 | <sm> | I can't quite see the need, but no matter |
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| 06:21:08 | <hololeap> | I'm submitting a patch upstream to allow for disabling a few of these tests and I didn't want to mess up how their docs render |
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| 06:29:03 | <sm> | I see. Shouldn't the tests just be removed ? Network dependent tests seem fragile |
| 06:29:25 | <sm> | 🤷♀️ |
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| 06:44:51 | <hololeap> | dhall is supposed to be able to pull imports from online sources, so they probably want these tests in most cases |
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| 09:59:11 | <ehammarstrom> | Any recommended write-ups/getting-started on fused-effects? |
| 09:59:53 | <fendor[m]> | ehammarstrom, what are you looking for? Program architecture, or how to use them? |
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| 10:00:42 | <ehammarstrom> | fendor[m]: How to use them is a good start, showing actual use-cases would be great |
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| 10:02:16 | <fendor[m]> | I argue that it is rather similar to any popular effect system. Are you familiar with effect systems in general? |
| 10:05:09 | <ehammarstrom> | I used mtl some years ago to compose some monad transformers into a monad that had the effects/functionality that I needed |
| 10:05:21 | <ehammarstrom> | Familiar yes, comfortable? Maybe not |
| 10:05:54 | <fendor[m]> | Ok, I really liked this blogpost: https://haskell-explained.gitlab.io/blog/posts/2019/07/28/polysemy-is-cool-part-1/ |
| 10:06:24 | <fendor[m]> | It is about polysemy, but the ideas are similar. Once you got a feel for it, I believe the fused-effects hackage documentation will be already very helpful |
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| 10:06:43 | <ehammarstrom> | Thanks, I'll have a look |
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| 10:11:44 | <fendor[m]> | if not, feel free to call me out 😀 |
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| 13:03:05 | <sshine> | is there a thing like Control.Monad.guard that'll let me provide an error for Either e? |
| 13:03:44 | <sshine> | e.g. guard' (length xs == 5) "length must be 5" |
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| 13:06:51 | <hpc> | :t (<?>) |
| 13:06:52 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:06:52 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: <?> |
| 13:06:52 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 13:07:08 | <hpc> | hmm, that's just for parsers |
| 13:07:09 | <maerwald> | I don't think that's possible with the Alternative class |
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| 13:08:06 | <maerwald> | MonadThrow yes |
| 13:08:15 | <hpc> | p <?> e = if p then pure () else fail s -- ? |
| 13:08:21 | <hpc> | or something along those lines |
| 13:08:45 | <maerwald> | that requires MonadFail |
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| 13:09:41 | <hpc> | huh, there's no instance for Either String |
| 13:09:47 | <hpc> | p <?> e = if p then pure () else Right s -- :( |
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| 13:09:59 | <hpc> | er, Left |
| 13:10:02 | <hpc> | it's not my day lol |
| 13:10:04 | <dminuoso> | sshine: How generic do you want this to be? |
| 13:10:16 | <dminuoso> | Note that guard really isnt about "failure" modes in general |
| 13:10:26 | <dminuoso> | For example, in STM `guard` will cause a retry |
| 13:10:48 | <sshine> | :t guard |
| 13:10:49 | <lambdabot> | Alternative f => Bool -> f () |
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| 13:13:07 | <sshine> | hm. |
| 13:13:29 | <dminuoso> | Or consider how you can use `guard` in list-monad to filter out cases |
| 13:13:51 | <maerwald> | > unless (True == False) $ throwM (userError "lol") :: Either SomeException () |
| 13:13:53 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:13:53 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: |
| 13:13:53 | <lambdabot> | throwM :: IOError -> Either SomeException () |
| 13:13:54 | <dminuoso> | i.e. you can think of list-comprehension predicates as desugaring into guard |
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| 13:16:48 | <sshine> | I really just had this in mind: guardEither :: Bool -> e -> Either e () -- I didn't think of what degree it might generalise to. :) |
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| 13:17:18 | <sshine> | with 'guardEither False e = Left e' and 'guardEither True _ = Right ()' |
| 13:17:36 | <maerwald> | see MonadThrow |
| 13:18:45 | <dminuoso> | MonadThrow is a poor fit |
| 13:18:52 | <dminuoso> | MonadError gives you that particular interface |
| 13:19:02 | <dminuoso> | instance e ~ SomeException => MonadThrow (Either e) |
| 13:19:17 | <dminuoso> | Given sshine's requirement, MonadThrow wouldnt suffice |
| 13:19:24 | <maerwald> | why |
| 13:19:38 | <dminuoso> | Because you cant provide a string? |
| 13:19:43 | <maerwald> | I did so above |
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| 13:25:33 | <dminuoso> | Well, the catch part is going to be a bit more silly now |
| 13:25:40 | <dminuoso> | Because you have to be ready for any SomeException |
| 13:26:12 | <dminuoso> | instance MonadError e (Either e) |
| 13:26:16 | <dminuoso> | % :t throwError |
| 13:26:17 | <yahb> | dminuoso: MonadError e m => e -> m a |
| 13:26:29 | <dminuoso> | I think I might prefer that one, it's more direct for Either. |
| 13:27:32 | <ehammarstrom> | fendor[m]: it was useful, I was able to use it to write an effect with fused-effects. I'll see if I can write another one and compose them; thanks for helping out |
| 13:28:19 | <hpc> | this is why i don't like exceptions, btw |
| 13:28:44 | <hpc> | all of a sudden not only does lexical scope not matter, but to some extent types don't matter either |
| 13:29:00 | <hpc> | (re the SomeException thing) |
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| 13:44:24 | <maerwald> | dminuoso: bimap displayException id |
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| 13:45:24 | <c_wraith> | isn't that the equivalent of lmap displayException? |
| 13:46:20 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: Im not seeing how that helps your case.. :-) |
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| 13:46:34 | <maerwald> | dminuoso: then I don't see your problem |
| 13:46:42 | <dminuoso> | ok |
| 13:46:46 | <maerwald> | you can have string, exception, whatever you want |
| 13:48:21 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: They didnt ask to have a generalization of IO exceptions, together with exception hierarchies. |
| 13:48:44 | <maerwald> | MonadThrow doesn't require IO exceptions |
| 13:48:54 | <dminuoso> | No, MonadThrow *generalizes* them |
| 13:49:12 | <dminuoso> | It's why you have this `SomeException ~ e` constraint on that instance |
| 13:49:23 | <maerwald> | I don't see what this has to do with IO |
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| 13:49:42 | <maerwald> | I use MonadThrow outside of IO |
| 13:49:49 | <dminuoso> | okay I have more productive things to do than to argue with you |
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| 13:53:14 | <xsperry> | TBH I like how the caller gets to decide how to handle errors when uses MonadThrow |
| 13:53:20 | <xsperry> | using* |
| 13:53:40 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 13:54:01 | <maerwald> | if you're in IO, you're triggering in IO exception, but you might as well turn it into a Maybe and deal with it |
| 13:54:53 | <maerwald> | might be a bit unwieldy if you want to pattern match on the error in Either, but so is using a String |
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| 14:01:12 | <maerwald> | e.g.: case parseAbsFile "lol" of ; Left e | (Just (InvalidAbsFile fp)) <- fromException e -> "lolz" |
| 14:01:18 | <maerwald> | with https://hackage.haskell.org/package/path-0.9.2/docs/Path-Posix.html#v:parseAbsDir |
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| 14:37:56 | <sshine> | I did Data.Aeson.decodeFileStrict' "myfile" and got *** Exception: myfile: openBinaryFile: does not exist (No such file or directory) -- should I try to catch that exception, or is there a safer way to read a file that might not exist? |
| 14:38:55 | <sshine> | oh, there's eitherDecodeFileStrict'! |
| 14:39:51 | <jkaye[m]> | Is it possible to get hls to work on a single file without a project and such? I'd like editor features for my xmonad configuration file if possible |
| 14:41:25 | <geekosaur> | I think you need a project/stack.yaml for it to find xmonad and xmonad-contrib |
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| 14:42:01 | <geekosaur> | hls isn't really designed for global installs, and even xmonad is moving away from them |
| 14:42:02 | <sshine> | jkaye[m], you can make a minimal project around your xmonad config. |
| 14:42:18 | <sshine> | jkaye[m], doesn't even need a src/ sub-directory. |
| 14:42:33 | <jkaye[m]> | I was hoping to avoid that, but yeah should be easy enough to just init the yamls I suppose |
| 14:42:36 | <geekosaur> | (we already have stack support built inas of 0.17.0 and I want to add direct cabal support) |
| 14:42:36 | <jkaye[m]> | Thanks |
| 14:43:52 | <sshine> | jkaye[m], it'd be neat with something like rust-script, which lets you embed a project file in a comment at the top of the file :) |
| 14:44:46 | <jkaye[m]> | Yeah, there actually is something similar-ish with stack script, this is a bit of a different thing since it's a configuration file though, but agreed |
| 14:44:56 | <geekosaur> | stack has that and cabal has at least part of it |
| 14:45:09 | <geekosaur> | but I doubt hls knows about it |
| 14:46:09 | <sshine> | ohhh, right. |
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| 15:12:13 | <jkaye[m]> | Hmm, after stack init and installing locally (reloading configs as well), it looks like hls is choking without errors somehow. Very odd |
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| 15:18:30 | <sshine> | hm, Data.Aeson.eitherDecodeFileStrict' apparently throws on file not found and only gives Left on decode errors. :-/ |
| 15:19:22 | <maerwald> | catch it? |
| 15:19:37 | <sshine> | jkaye[m], I don't know the state of HLS right now, but maybe it can be fixed with a hie.yaml? |
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| 15:19:57 | <sshine> | maerwald, how do I do that? |
| 15:20:16 | <alt-romes> | hallo, what's a point free version of (f <$>) |
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| 15:20:17 | <jkaye[m]> | I don't think so - it doesn't seem to have any issue starting up and running with the project, just doesn't report anything back to Emacs. It's not that important honestly |
| 15:20:21 | <maerwald> | sshine: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.0.0/docs/Control-Exception.html#v:catch |
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| 15:20:51 | <maerwald> | or https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.0.0/docs/Control-Exception.html#v:try |
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| 15:21:15 | <alt-romes> | example for what's the point free version of: fun = (const NoContent <$>) . liftIO . print |
| 15:21:35 | <geekosaur> | that is pointfree |
| 15:21:36 | <sshine> | maerwald, thanks! |
| 15:21:44 | <geekosaur> | (the pointd are not the dots, they are bindings) |
| 15:21:52 | <maerwald> | fmap join . try . bimap displayException id . eitherDecodeFileStriict' |
| 15:21:56 | <maerwald> | sth like that |
| 15:21:58 | <alt-romes> | geekosaur: was about to say that ahah, but I was wondering if there was something like <.> |
| 15:22:18 | <sshine> | maerwald, ah, awesome :) |
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| 15:26:23 | <maerwald> | fmap (join . bimap (displayException @SomeException) id) . try . eitherDecodeFileStrict' @String |
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| 15:26:28 | <maerwald> | that typechecks |
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| 15:28:36 | <maerwald> | the last type application is for the type to decode into |
| 15:29:58 | <sshine> | right. thanks! |
| 15:31:09 | sshine | is doing a proof-of-concept of something, and in an hour of coding has added 7 LANGUAGE pragmas and 14 import lines. -_- |
| 15:31:40 | <sshine> | it feels right, but it also feels like it's not something you stumble into doing,hehe. |
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| 15:45:38 | <_73> | is there a name for the concept of currying the function application function `$`? It feels rather remarkable to me to curry function application itself. |
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| 15:49:02 | <janus> | why do you call that currying? |
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| 15:49:09 | <[exa]> | _73: how would you curry that if ($)'s argument isn't a (,)? (perhaps you meant uncurrying?) |
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| 15:53:33 | <_73> | hmm maybe this doesn't make sense in haskell I am not much of a haskeller. Really I am currying `funcall` in lisp but I got no answers on the lisp or programming channels. `(curry #'funcall #'+ 1)` |
| 15:53:53 | <_73> | I got no answers on the other channels I tried and figured you people know all about currying. |
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| 15:58:09 | <ski> | _73 : looks more like partial application, to me ? |
| 15:59:02 | <xsperry> | sometimes it makes to partially apply function application. for example: |
| 15:59:04 | <ski> | (also "curry" is a somewhat fuzzy term) |
| 15:59:07 | <xsperry> | > map ($2) [(*2),(^8),(*10)] |
| 15:59:08 | <lambdabot> | [4,256,20] |
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| 16:00:02 | <_73> | ski: so perhaps it can be said that currying function application results in partial application? |
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| 16:00:41 | <ski> | "curry" tends to refer to convert to a function that takes its parameters in curried style. could be converting from (some version of) tupled style. or, in languages which have multiple parameters in function application, it could be converting from a function accepting multiple parameters |
| 16:02:19 | <ski> | however, the fuzziness then comes in that, there's many ways to "make a curried function" out of that, if you have multiple parameter functions. because you need not necessarily convert to a function that takes one parameter, and computes a function that takes one parameter, &c. until you compute the result. instead you could "split" the sequence of parameters into larger chunks (possibly more than two |
| 16:02:25 | <ski> | chunks) |
| 16:03:02 | <_73> | is this an example of a function that takes its args in a curried style?: `f = \x -> \y -> (+) x y` |
| 16:03:11 | <ski> | _73 : i suppose you could say so. but i would also say `(lambda (x z) (f x 3 z))' is a partial application of `f' |
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| 16:03:35 | <ski> | yes |
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| 16:03:50 | <xsperry> | _73, yes, but in haskell that is the same as f x y = .. |
| 16:04:03 | <_73> | ok my conception of currying has been incorrect to this point. |
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| 16:04:23 | <ski> | (or just `f = (+)', in that particular case, since infix operators are curried(ly expressed) in Haskell) |
| 16:04:36 | <ski> | (note that Haskell does *not* "have curried functions") |
| 16:05:52 | <ski> | curried style (as well as tupled style) are *styles* of *encoding* / *simulating* multiparameter functions (e.g. in a language that doesn't actually have those, like Haskell) |
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| 16:06:07 | <ski> | iow, curried style, tuples style, is all in your head, is not in Haskell itself |
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| 16:07:03 | <_73> | ski: so you could say that because haskell functions can only take one parameter we must use curried style to simulate multi-parameter functions? |
| 16:07:05 | <ski> | (that said, several features of Haskell syntax is designed so as to encourage curried style as a default style for expressing multiparameter functions (which Haskell doesn't have)) |
| 16:07:23 | <ski> | not "must". we can also use "tupled style" |
| 16:07:53 | <ski> | (by which i mean packaging the "multiple parameters" together into some compound structure, e.g. a tuple, but could be a list, or array, or record, or some other structure, as well) |
| 16:08:08 | <_73> | Doesn't haskell's `curry` function use tupled style? |
| 16:08:11 | <_73> | :t curry |
| 16:08:11 | <lambdabot> | ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c |
| 16:08:25 | <sshine> | > (\(x, y) -> x + y) (2, 3) |
| 16:08:26 | <lambdabot> | 5 |
| 16:08:37 | <ski> | it converts from tupled style (expressed via a pair) to curried style (of two parameters) |
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| 16:08:40 | <sshine> | > (\x y -> x + y) 2 3 |
| 16:08:41 | <lambdabot> | 5 |
| 16:09:07 | <_73> | ok I have a much better understanding of currying now |
| 16:09:23 | <ski> | also, `curry' can also be thought of as a partial application operation, itself expressed in curried style .. |
| 16:09:54 | <sshine> | > curry (\(x, y) -> x + y) 2 3 |
| 16:09:55 | <lambdabot> | 5 |
| 16:09:59 | <ski> | .. a partial application expressed in tupled style would be e.g. `partialApply :: ((a,b) -> c,a) -> (b -> c)' |
| 16:10:05 | <sshine> | > uncurry (\x y -> x + y) (2, 3) |
| 16:10:07 | <lambdabot> | 5 |
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| 16:11:18 | <sshine> | :t (\x y -> x + y) 2 |
| 16:11:19 | <lambdabot> | Num a => a -> a |
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| 16:12:10 | <sshine> | @pl (\x y -> x + y) 2 |
| 16:12:10 | <lambdabot> | (2 +) |
| 16:12:23 | <ski> | _73 : anyway, in Lisps, `+' usually can take an arbitrary amount of elements. so if we want to partially apply it, how many "nested `lambda's" do we want to get ? it's not obvious at all |
| 16:12:41 | <sshine> | Lisp '+' is Haskell 'sum', right? |
| 16:13:04 | <ski> | well, i guess partial application doesn't really stage more, normally. but if you're thinking of it in terms of "currying", then you need to answer this question |
| 16:13:08 | <sshine> | or somewhat, I guess, since Lisp '+' is variadic. |
| 16:13:17 | <ski> | sshine : more or less, yea |
| 16:14:35 | <ski> | (if you have an actual list of numbers, and want to sum them up, then you'd probably use `apply' (or maybe some specific summing function that accepts a list. that could be relevant if there's restrictions on number of parameters, and the list is very long)) |
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| 16:16:54 | <ski> | _73 : so what does your `curry' (in, i assume CL ? or Emacs Lisp ?) actually do ? |
| 16:16:55 | <_73> | You could never write lisps `+` in curried style, which is why haskell does not have variadic functions. |
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| 16:17:56 | <ski> | if you fix the number of "nestings", you could get a function that takes a number of parameters, and computes a function that takes a number of parameters, ..., eventually summing them all, giving that back as result |
| 16:18:23 | <ski> | (but yes, that's not a general thing) |
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| 16:18:49 | <ski> | Haskell doesn't have variadic functions, because it doesn't have multiparameter functions to begin with |
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| 16:20:06 | <_73> | ski: It is CL and comes from alexandria. I have only found a use for it for partial application. In case you are curious here is the implementation: http://dpaste.com/3LFT5XP99 |
| 16:20:14 | <_73> | Ok I see |
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| 16:20:52 | <[exa]> | _73: btw you can "simulate" the variadic functions with typeclasses but I'd say it is not a very good idea, except in highly specific usecases (like printf) |
| 16:22:26 | <ski> | _73 : hm, ok. i think i'd rather name that something like `partial-apply' (or `partial-apply-to-prefix', maybe). (a) because it just introduces "two" levels of functions; (b) because it takes `arguments' in the same application as `function' (rather than in the next `lambda') |
| 16:23:16 | <ski> | (`curry', as a verb, is generally used to express *converting* to curried style. iow, it should not take the parameters directly, but return a function that does (in a nested fashion)) |
| 16:24:41 | <ski> | (i guess if you curry `curry' itself, you could call it `curry') |
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| 16:27:17 | <ski> | (.. (re a `+' in curried style, in Lisps) i suppose another thing one could do is a function (or object, maybe), which one could send parameters to, and again, repeatedly, until one signals to it that one's "done" (perhaps sending a specific message to the object), at which point it'd compute the result. but this all seems quite awkward ..) |
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| 16:29:30 | <ski> | anyway, partial application is useful. but attempting to express "currying" and "uncurrying" seem to rarely be as useful, unless one has some particular conventions for the source and target format in mind |
| 16:30:30 | <_73> | In haskell you could use an auxilary function that takes an extra parameter `say count` for the number of parameters and decrements it on recursive calls? |
| 16:30:55 | <ski> | (and `uncurry' and `curry' in Haskell only converts between a function accepting a pair, and a function curriedly taking two parameters. it's not a general thing. and it's quite rare than one even wants versions for triples, say. there are some library definitions for those, floating around, but i'm not sure i've even seen for higher arities) |
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| 16:31:13 | <_73> | and when count is 0 returns the accumulator |
| 16:31:28 | <ski> | hm .. i'm not quite sure what situation you have in mind |
| 16:31:46 | <ski> | but if you're talking about currying/uncurrying -- then that would require dependent types |
| 16:32:18 | <_73> | never mind we get back to the original problem with haskell not being able to support variadic arguments |
| 16:32:51 | <[exa]> | _73: check out the printf package, as above |
| 16:33:03 | <_73> | [exa]: I will |
| 16:33:20 | <[exa]> | I hope that solves your original problem :] |
| 16:33:48 | ski | was just about to refer back to [exa]'s previous comment |
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| 18:22:43 | <dmj`> | geekosaur: see that new video on Mu? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A70SN7vFsKU |
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| 18:25:29 | <geekosaur> | I don't generally watch videos, they're kinda difficult for me |
| 18:25:29 | <dmj`> | no support for RankNTypes (hence why I asked before) and they monomorphize everything up front, probably how they support "everything is serializeable", and they use GRIN ... |
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| 18:26:01 | <dmj`> | ah, k. |
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| 18:27:18 | <dmj`> | I bet Mu could support laziness (opt-in at the very least) since they use GRIN |
| 18:27:43 | <maerwald> | dmj`: cool |
| 18:28:36 | <dsal> | Me clearly not understanding how to use `these` properly: `(bad, good) = these (,[]) ([],) (,) $ maybe (This []) parseAndGroup (NE.nonEmpty candidates)` |
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| 18:30:29 | <dmj`> | geekosaur: Mu doesn't support recursive data types, that's one way to get rid of String I guess ... |
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| 18:59:40 | <justsomeguy> | I have a pdf file, and I want to number the paragraphs, the figures, and label the sentences with letters. Is there a package or library that is well-suited to doing this kind of thing? |
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| 19:05:28 | <[exa]> | justsomeguy: it's quite hard to detect actual sentence structure from just pdf |
| 19:06:07 | <geekosaur> | even paragraphs are difficult, from the last time I worked with a PDF |
| 19:06:22 | <hpc> | words are difficult even |
| 19:06:50 | <hpc> | sometimes kerning is implemented as having hundreds of individual text items offset by a pixel or two |
| 19:06:58 | <geekosaur> | PDFs are basically virtual printouts. it's allmove-print-move-print and you need to track how far it moves even to detect words (due to kerning) much less sentences or paragraphs |
| 19:07:32 | <geekosaur> | it'sa *really* lousy format for semantic manipulation |
| 19:07:46 | <hpc> | and that's if it's not an image |
| 19:08:14 | <justsomeguy> | Hmm... maybe I should email the author and ask for a copy of the latex source code. I don't think he'll respond, but it's worth a shot. |
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| 19:09:37 | <justsomeguy> | In the pdf file, each pargraph has a leading indent, so I thought that maybe I could get lucky and use that as a rule-of-thumb to recognize where each paragraph beigns/ends. |
| 19:10:34 | <geekosaur> | until you get quoting thta uses the same indent (I get stuff like this,it's sometimes difficult even just reading it normally) |
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| 19:11:12 | <justsomeguy> | That sounds frustrating. |
| 19:17:17 | <hololeap> | is there a way to check from within a project (possibly using CPP) if a build is using dist or dist-newstyle? |
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| 19:18:36 | <geekosaur> | hm. isn't that basically cabal v1 vs. cabal v2? |
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| 19:18:58 | <hololeap> | pretty close. Setup.hs also uses dist |
| 19:19:08 | <geekosaur> | that's more or less cabal v1 |
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| 19:20:14 | <hololeap> | I'm mucking around with fixing the environment for doctests and I need to know if it's dist or dist-newstyle. I could just check to see if one or the other exists |
| 19:21:15 | <hololeap> | but being able to know exactly where the build directory is would be nice |
| 19:21:24 | <hololeap> | s/is would be/would be |
| 19:21:41 | <hololeap> | wait no :/ |
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| 19:23:03 | <sclv> | hololeap: what doctest package are you working on in particular/ |
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| 19:25:20 | <Franciman> | monochrom: thanks for the «why functional programming matters» paper |
| 19:25:23 | <Franciman> | it's juicy |
| 19:25:53 | <[exa]> | justsomeguy: internally the PDF is usally in postscript, which will contain something like `go to 524,6264 and start making letters there` for the paragraph indent, instead of `got to 2345245,24234 and start making letters there`... so just taking a source and re-typesetting is probably gonna be easiest :D pdf2text may help if author doesn't respond |
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| 19:26:35 | <hololeap> | sclv: I'm not sure what you mean, but this is what I'm working on: https://github.com/dhall-lang/dhall-haskell/pull/2383/commits/6e9b65ffcbcafe78493d3629f15eaf5804ccf283 |
| 19:28:31 | <hololeap> | I made the assumption that it would be using dist, forgetting that most CI uses dist-newstyle: "-package-db=" ++ prefix </> "dist/package.conf.inplace" |
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| 19:29:33 | <sclv> | I thought that the cabal-doctest tool would figure out that stuff for you? |
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| 19:33:06 | <hololeap> | there was some problem problem I ran into when using Build_doctests.flags ... I had to slim it down, but I'm not remembering exactly why I did that |
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| 19:33:48 | <hololeap> | Oh, it's because dhall has a custom doctest that skips certain modules, and the default Build_doctests.flags includes all of them |
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| 19:41:16 | <sclv> | ah, makes sense! |
| 19:42:23 | <justsomeguy> | Thanks [exa] :^) |
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| 21:19:22 | <Sqaure> | Cant seem to find something i expected existed. Namely :: Int -> [a] -> Maybe a. Is it hiding? |
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| 21:22:37 | <Sqaure> | oh, found one in lens |
| 21:22:44 | <geekosaur> | @hoogle [a]-> Int -> Maybe a |
| 21:22:45 | <lambdabot> | Safe atMay :: [a] -> Int -> Maybe a |
| 21:22:45 | <lambdabot> | Protolude atMay :: [a] -> Int -> Maybe a |
| 21:22:45 | <lambdabot> | Protolude.Safe atMay :: [a] -> Int -> Maybe a |
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| 21:40:02 | <EvanR> | atMay oundSay saferSay anThey artialPay unctionsFay |
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| 21:40:20 | <EvanR> | doh, autocorrect |
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| 22:21:10 | <jackdk> | > [1, 2, 3] ^? ix 5 |
| 22:21:12 | <lambdabot> | Nothing |
| 22:21:23 | <jackdk> | does require lens, however |
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| 22:25:51 | <geekosaur> | sigh |
| 22:25:54 | ChanServ | sets mode +o geekosaur |
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| 22:27:50 | <romesrf> | say I have `class CSomething a`, and a `data DSomething b`, and I `instance CSomething (DSomething a)`. When writing a function `f :: CSomething a => ...`, how would I access the type variable of `a` |
| 22:28:17 | <romesrf> | So, `class CSomething a` where a must have kind * -> *, and then I want to reason over the kind of the instanced class? :P |
| 22:28:30 | <romesrf> | hahaha |
| 22:29:05 | <romesrf> | over the type variable of the instanced class* |
| 22:29:45 | <geekosaur> | you can't. just as you can't do f :: a -> something and get at the type `a` |
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| 22:30:11 | <geekosaur> | only instance methods get to do that |
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| 22:33:28 | <romesrf> | :) |
| 22:35:27 | <phma> | I'm writing some code to do arithmetic in a complex base and would like to use QuickCheck for unit tests. I use random tests in C++ and like them. |
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| 22:36:39 | <phma> | One function takes a Word32 and expresses it in base 343, returning a list. Another takes such a list and reassembles it into a number. I can test them together with random numbers. |
| 22:37:40 | <phma> | But I'd also like to do a few single tests where I choose a number, call the function, and check that the list is correct. Can I do this with QuickCheck? |
| 22:37:58 | <romesrf> | geekosaur: this is as close as I could get: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/LgZ2aPtP , which is pretty close to what I wanted but didn't know it yet ;) |
| 22:38:10 | <romesrf> | first time using KindSignatures, they're cool :P |
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| 22:39:00 | <romesrf> | so in the end i can constraint over the type variable of the instancing datatype |
| 22:39:41 | <geekosaur> | you still can't write code that can distinguish different `m`s, which is what I understood you as asking for |
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| 22:40:27 | <geekosaur> | you can write what you did but it has to work for all possible `m`s, which in practice means using instance functions |
| 22:41:03 | <romesrf> | ic ic :) |
| 22:41:06 | <romesrf> | ty |
| 22:42:34 | geekosaur | sets mode -o geekosaur |
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| 22:45:15 | <geekosaur> | phma, QuickCheck is not so much about choosing inputs, rather it chooses the inputs and verifies the correct result. It's good for verifying that a property holds across an entire range of inputs |
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| 22:45:45 | <sshine> | is 'include-env' package the preferred way to include environment variables at compile-time? |
| 22:46:15 | <phma> | geekosaur: how should I do single tests if I'm doing random tests with QuickCheck? |
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| 22:47:05 | <geekosaur> | you generally don't |
| 22:47:36 | <sshine> | phma, you can combine property tests and unit tests in one test suite |
| 22:47:37 | <geekosaur> | QC is just one kind of testing; there are test frameworks which provide other kinds of testing in addition |
| 22:47:58 | <geekosaur> | so you may want to look into HSpec or tasty |
| 22:48:12 | <phma> | thanks |
| 22:48:52 | <sshine> | phma, if you use e.g. HSpec or Tasty, you can define them next to each other; here's an example of Hedgehog property tests + HSpec unit tests, combined with Tasty: https://github.com/sshine/evm-opcodes/blob/main/test/OpcodeTest.hs |
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| 22:50:03 | <sshine> | phma, most test frameworks have something similar. for example, using only HSpec, you can also embed QuickCheck properties. |
| 22:50:47 | <sshine> | phma, https://hspec.github.io/ -- there's a simpler example of an HSpec suite that includes a QuickCheck property. you could get to there with only one or two extra dependencies in your test suite. |
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| 22:51:14 | litharge | sets mode -bo *!*@98.38.249.169 litharge |
| 22:51:18 | <geekosaur> | Hedgehog is QuickCheck on steroids, if you're wondering |
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| 22:52:46 | <romesrf> | I've a question: Is there any type-level fold? that folds a list of types into a mega type with some combinator |
| 22:52:47 | <monochrom> | Ugh in these days of dope test controversies... :) |
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| 22:53:15 | <sshine> | ...who is testing the testers? |
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| 22:53:17 | <romesrf> | like... foldl (->) [Int, Int, Int] ~ Int -> Int -> Int |
| 22:53:53 | <geekosaur> | that looks to me like something that would require serious singletons wizardry |
| 22:54:10 | <sshine> | yes |
| 22:54:29 | <monochrom> | Does this count? https://aphyr.com/posts/342-typing-the-technical-interview |
| 22:55:25 | <phma> | my favorite random test that I've written: make a random upper triangular matrix with all 1 on the diagonal, permute rows and columns randomly, and take the determinant. It should be close to 1. |
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| 22:56:39 | <monochrom> | That's a beautiful math insight, phma. :) |
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| 22:57:16 | <romesrf> | HAHAHAHAAHAH monochrom |
| 22:57:27 | <romesrf> | i'm halfway through that's hilarious |
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| 22:58:59 | <monochrom> | It's a satire on type level programming in those days. But it was also before DataKinds, TypeInType, kind polymorphism, even type families maybe. |
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| 22:59:39 | <monochrom> | So, it had to make do with undecidable instances and those empty data declarations "data Nil; data Cons ...". |
| 23:00:17 | <monochrom> | Today I think type-level foldl can be made a type family. |
| 23:00:29 | <romesrf> | It's really funny |
| 23:02:05 | <jackdk> | I read it as a satire on type-level programming in general, and that was the state of the art at the time. The turns of phrase make it so much fun - "summon two meaningless constants from the void, and imbue them with meaning" |
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| 23:03:28 | <monochrom> | "it's easier to just define it inline" |
| 23:04:16 | <romesrf> | AHAHAH |
| 23:05:35 | <romesrf> | still laughing. Thank you, i've forwarded this to my advisor as well ahahah |
| 23:05:43 | <sshine> | monochrom, nice blog post, hadn't read it before :) |
| 23:05:51 | <sshine> | “We must use this,” you inform him cheerfully, “because Hask is not a category.” -- I should use this reasoning more often. |
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| 23:06:07 | <monochrom> | hee hee |
| 23:06:10 | <romesrf> | hahahaha |
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| 23:38:24 | × | Null_A quits (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:a4fb:481a:7fa9:b909) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:38:49 | × | Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:39:07 | → | Null_A joins (~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:a4fb:481a:7fa9:b909) |
| 23:39:15 | × | nunggu quits (~q@user/nunggu) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
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| 23:39:27 | pavonia_ | is now known as pavonia |
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| 23:44:49 | → | eggplantade joins (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 23:47:44 | → | psydroid joins (~psydroid@user/psydroid) |
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| 23:55:13 | <sshine> | are there any Stack executables for OpenBSD? it seems like https://get.haskellstack.org/ doesn't support OpenBSD. |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-02-13.