Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-02-15 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:00:17 <EvanR> burned myself on laziness a couple times and was better for it
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00:00:34 <afidegnum> let me give it a try, wish me luck :)
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00:00:53 <Axman6> afidegnum: what's the project, if you can say?
00:01:41 <afidegnum> I'm trying to dynamically generate MVC patterns from specific database models
00:02:22 <afidegnum> this will reduce development time
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00:02:52 <afidegnum> I made an attempt in elisp which somehow workds but I need to interact with teh GUI too
00:03:15 <geekosaur> "somehow works" kinda summarizes elisp :þ
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00:05:46 <afidegnum> :)
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00:10:07 <byorgey> monochrom: that's a good suggestion, thanks. I doubt it would be that hard for the parser. Though I feel like I considered that before and rejected the idea, but I can't remember why now.
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00:13:30 <liskin> Axman6: have you tried deoping via chanserv instead of a slash command by any chance?
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00:14:31 <jackdk> geekosaur: emacs is the only known successful implementation of the "big ball of mud" design pattern
00:14:35 <geekosaur> Axman6 got opped by shapr, iirc
00:14:46 <geekosaur> jackdk, isn't it though :)
00:14:53 <jackdk> it's so good
00:15:00 <Axman6> liskin: yeah, that's all I tried
00:15:09 <geekosaur> although sometimes I wonder about vim þ
00:15:40 <Axman6> wasn't GCC also a big ball of mud, until Clang came along and showed that a modular compiler actually made people want to work on it?
00:15:48 <liskin> Axman6: that explains it then :-)
00:16:10 <geekosaur> Axman6, if you have ops then "/mode #channel -o yournick" should work to remove them. good luck getting them back though
00:16:21 <geekosaur> unless shapr's feeling magnanimous again :)
00:17:02 shapr grins
00:17:29 <Axman6> "error: chano-privs-needed #haskell You're not a channel operator"
00:17:33 Axman6 feels messed with
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00:31:26 <afidegnum> can you please give a hand? using debian, what's the recommended package manager? i'm trying to install haskell language server
00:31:40 <afidegnum> debian 10
00:32:06 <Axman6> IMO I would stay away from OS package managers and just use ghcup to install GHC and HLS
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00:32:24 <Axman6> but you're working on systems I have no experience with so no idea if that's good advice
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00:34:31 <geekosaur> ghcup is recommended everywhere these days
00:34:44 <geekosaur> package managers tend to be slow, especially debian related ones
00:34:53 <jkaye[m]> I'd install hls from source using stack or cabal though
00:34:54 <afidegnum> ok
00:35:02 <hpc> iirc you can apt install ghcup too
00:35:28 <hpc> (although even then you might want to just use latest)
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01:20:48 <justsomeguy> What is list fusion?
01:21:53 <justsomeguy> Nevermind, I finally found a good search result: https://wiki.haskell.org/Short_cut_fusion
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02:11:20 <afidegnum> how do i configure the haskell interpreter on https://pasteboard.co/62B9DqobWJNe.png ?
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07:01:59 <capo_greco> Hello! I have a beginner question
07:02:23 <capo_greco> according to Hoogle, shear is part of the Data.List.HT package
07:02:54 <capo_greco> I am already using some functions from Data.List
07:03:25 <capo_greco> `import Data.List.HT (shear)` doesn't seem to work
07:03:58 <capo_greco> I feel like I am missing something rudimentary
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07:16:58 <jackdk> capo_greco: the Data.List.HT module is provided by the `utility-ht` package
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07:17:35 <jackdk> capo_greco: (this is what the `utility-ht` written in unlabelled tiny green text on the hoogle results means)
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07:18:08 <jackdk> capo_greco: how have you set up your haskell project? you will need to add `utility-ht` to `build-depends:` in your cabal file or `package.yaml`
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07:28:31 <capo_greco> using stack for this project
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07:31:21 <capo_greco> dependencies:
07:31:21 <capo_greco> - base >= 4.7 && < 5
07:31:21 <capo_greco> - utility-ht
07:31:43 <capo_greco> under `dependencies`, as per ^ ?
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07:35:25 <jackdk> if that's what hpack calls it, then I think so?
07:35:31 <jackdk> (I don't use stack, sorry)
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07:41:57 <capo_greco> yup! dependencies worked. many thanks! @jackdk
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09:16:06 <phma> I've defined a function "add7 a b c" which is a full adder of the digits 0 to 6. I just wrote a unit test. How do I write a Tasty.QuickCheck test that (add7 a b c) == (add7 b c a), with a,b,c less than 7?
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09:28:56 <jackdk> phma: you will need to construct a generator which generates values in teh range [0..6], look at `chooseInt`. Then use that generator to make a generator for triples (the tools in `Control.Applicative` will help). Then use `forAll` with your generator to construct a `Property` and use `Test.Tasty.QuickCheck.testProperty` to turn it into a `TestTree`
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09:45:32 <cheater> hi
09:46:03 <cheater> are there currently any good gui solutions for windows? preferably also able to display some sort of interactable 3D graphics within a rectangle?
09:47:33 <phma> jackdk: I'm new to Haskell. I found chooseInt, but am not sure how to use it. Here's the test I've already written:
09:47:41 <jackdk> @where paste
09:47:41 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
09:48:16 <jackdk> just in case you're new to IRC too, use that link (or a GH gist) to share code or error messages
09:49:21 <phma> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/GKHjBRIM
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09:58:03 <jackdk> phma: okay, if you're used to writing properties in that style, I suggest the following plan: define a newtype wrapper (around Int, I guess) which has an Arbitrary instance that generates numbers in the reduced range, and then write your property test as a function like the one in your pastebin
09:58:10 <jackdk> have you seen newtypes before?
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10:00:54 <phma> I'm not used to anything. I found an example written like that. How else can they be written?
10:02:46 <phma> I copied the tests from https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-1.1/src/README.md and modified them.
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10:15:18 <jackdk> phma: This is how I would try to do it, but I haven't used QuickCheck very much https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/bkUnHAwg/ZeroToSix.hs
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10:21:43 <gurkenglas> phma, "(checked by QuickCheck)" sounds redundant - everything that involves "QC.testProperty" is checked by QuickCheck, right?
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10:25:23 <jackdk> it's a label for a tasty testgroup, and you can make testgroups using tasty-hunit, tasty-hedgehog, tasty-hspec...
10:27:02 <gurkenglas> Oh I see, QC is not QuickCheck itself but tasty's interface to it :)
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10:37:10 <gurkenglas> I would have fed quickcheck "\a b c -> any (\x->x<0||x>=7) || f a b c == f b c a", but it doesn't try to hit all the branches, does it?
10:37:59 <jackdk> I wrote a new generator because "generate, then filter" can give you really slow tests because it has to reroll a lot
10:38:18 <jackdk> I think John Hughes talks about it in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcJOiQlzlXQ
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10:44:51 <phma> jackdk: Thanks! I don't think "shrink" is needed, there are only 343 possibilities.
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10:56:48 <gurkenglas> ah, forAll (replicateM 3 $ choose (0,6)) $ \[a,b,c] -> f a b c === f b a c
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11:25:49 <jeremyn_> Hey, is there any way to call a local C library function in Template Haskell?
11:26:52 <jeremyn_> I'm getting an undefined symbol error
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11:35:34 <dminuoso> Linkage during TH sounds like a fun nightmare
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11:51:15 <romesrf> ahah
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11:55:28 <jeremyn_> :( lol
11:55:56 <jeremyn_> I want to compile some information about a Vulkan pipeline statically
11:56:13 <jeremyn_> Maybe it doesn't make sense to do so now that I think about it though
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12:35:49 <romesrf> hello!
12:35:57 <romesrf> can someone help me interpret the following error
12:36:00 <romesrf> type Chat a = forall a. ChatBotMessage a => ReaderT (ReplyMessageState a) IO
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12:36:43 <romesrf> Expecting one more argument to ‘ReaderT (ReplyMessageState a) IO’ |
12:36:44 <romesrf> 3 | Expected a type, but |
12:36:46 <romesrf> 4 | ‘ReaderT (ReplyMessageState a) IO’ has kind |
12:36:48 <romesrf> 5 | ‘* -> *’
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12:37:16 <romesrf> I want the type synonym to have kind * -> *
12:37:31 <romesrf> but upon adding the constraint I get this error
12:37:54 <hpc> are you expecting to partially apply that synonym later?
12:37:56 <romesrf> yes
12:38:08 <hpc> :( that rules out "type Chat a b = .... b" then
12:38:13 <romesrf> i mean, by the time i apply the synonym it's completely applied
12:38:27 <romesrf> hpc: yes, exactly
12:38:28 <romesrf> ahahah
12:38:46 <romesrf> I want to add the constraint without forcing the second type variable
12:38:51 <hpc> er, hmm
12:39:07 <romesrf> i can throw up a minimal example if you'd like
12:39:07 <hpc> in "Chat a", is "a" a phantom type?
12:39:20 <romesrf> gimme a sec let me write something simpler
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12:44:43 <romesrf> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/pWixhL3W
12:44:48 <romesrf> Syn' doesn't typecheck
12:45:05 <romesrf> hpc:
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12:50:04 <romesrf> brb
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12:51:35 <romesrf> back
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13:02:05 <raehik> romesrf: I don't think you can partially apply type synonyms. you could try using a newtype instead?
13:02:18 <raehik> > newtype Syn' a b = Syn' { getSyn :: forall a. Constr a => ReaderT a IO b }
13:02:19 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘newtype’
13:02:47 <geekosaur> you can partially apply as long as they're fully applied at the point of use, with LiberalisedTypeSynonyms
13:03:01 <geekosaur> need @let for declarations in lambdabot
13:03:04 <raehik> ohh thanks geekosaur I didn't know that one
13:03:09 <geekosaur> ">" is just expressions
13:03:11 <romesrf> raehik: you can partially apply them, just apparently not when you have the constraint
13:04:17 <romesrf> nd LiberalTypeSynonyms doesn't fix the constraints issue
13:04:29 <romesrf> meanwhile I've just moved the constraint to a different place
13:04:42 <romesrf> but it's interesting as to why doesn't it work
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15:06:37 <romesrf> can I have existential types in typeclass methods ?
15:06:56 <slack1256> Is there a binding to the `file` filetype database on hackage?
15:08:25 <sss> I've got some code with a data type that takes quite a few type arguments, like data Foo a b c d e f .... = Foo { fa :: a, fb :: b, ...}. The problem is that I'm often writing functions that only instantiate a small number of these types, say addB :: (forall a c d e f ...) . Foo a () c d e f ... -> Foo a Int c d e f ... Is there any reasonable way
15:08:26 <sss> to do something like this without having to write out all of the type arguments every time? (Ideally I'd want e.g. type-level record syntax, but that doesn't seem to be a thing afaik. I could probably get close to this with some type families, but that requires some work every time I add a field to the datatype)
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15:09:49 <merijn> slack1256: You probably mean libmagic?
15:09:52 <merijn> @hackage magic
15:09:52 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/magic
15:10:09 <slack1256> Awesome!
15:10:15 <merijn> Seems a bit...ancient, though
15:10:20 <merijn> So YMMV ;)
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15:11:49 <slack1256> I can probably update it. Thanks merijn.
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15:51:40 <afidegnum> hi, can you pls guide? I'm trying to build directed graphs made of nodes, but I would like to add a mouse event to link one node to a custom node, or other shapes, I come accross diagrams but I can't see anything related to mouse events. can you please advise better ?
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16:53:11 <gensyst> Please challenge my belief that websites should mostly work without JavaScript, not just for purposes of purity and viewability on text-based browsers but also because very privacy conscious people may want to disable JavaScript altogether.
16:53:15 <gensyst> However given this belief, Haskell is not really a suitable language for doing front-end, is it? I think the best I can go for is PureScript. This allows me to write a website that mostly works without JavaScript, but will be more feature-rich with JavaScript active.
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16:55:08 <slack1256> Wait, purescript compiles to JS doesn't it?
16:55:30 <geekosaur> I don't see what about a Haskell backend requires JS as a front-end
16:55:40 <geekosaur> it's common, yes, but so are JS front-ends in general
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17:00:17 <gensyst> I wasn't clear enough above. I'm talking only about front-end here. The point is that Haskell for front-end is not suitable for just "spicing up" HTML that works fine without JS, is it?
17:00:38 <gensyst> Haskell for front-end is more for just monolithic single page "apps", isn't it?
17:00:51 <gensyst> (If JS is disabled in the browser, nothing works)
17:01:55 <geekosaur> afaik the only way you get haskell as *front* end is ghcjs?
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17:06:31 <gensyst> geekosaur, yeah and afaik rest of JS can't really talk to the haskell JS part since it's a different runtime.
17:06:40 <gensyst> it's its own thing in isolation
17:06:55 <geekosaur> you can do foreign imports, iirc
17:07:21 <geekosaur> you can't mix it with other frameworks but that's kind of a given anyway isn't it?
17:07:29 <janus> geekosaur: maybe one can compile Hugs with Emscripten
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17:08:06 <janus> another way of having haskell on the frontend though :P
17:08:47 <geekosaur> in any case I think if you really want something haskell-like on the front end elm is the go-to
17:08:51 <janus> also since GRIN compiles to LLVM, and LLVM compiles to WASM, should work? https://grin-compiler.github.io/
17:09:11 <janus> geekosaur: why not purescript? it isn't limiting you like Elm is
17:09:43 <janus> more similar to haskell than Elm afaik?
17:10:03 <geekosaur> mm, maybe. I had the impression elm was more haskell-like
17:10:39 <janus> how? it doesn't have higher-order types
17:10:51 <geekosaur> whereas purescript is what you'd get if JS had been designed with Haskell concepts in mind
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17:12:30 <janus> i don't see the similarity between PureScript and JS except for how e.g. the string type is an array of utf-16 code units
17:13:05 <janus> arguably it is even more haskelly than haskell since the type classes are more granular
17:13:13 <slack1256> Maybe backwards? Haskell if was designed with JS concerns in mind.
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17:50:09 <maerwald> janus: because elm is actually successful
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18:12:49 <dminuoso> janus: the typeclasses in elm are a mess
18:13:18 <geekosaur> the typeclasses in haskell aren't?
18:13:33 <dminuoso> geekosaur: At least they're an actual component of the language
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18:15:15 <dolio> It just has a few built in special cases of overloading, no?
18:15:21 <dminuoso> Right
18:16:11 <dolio> I'm no expert, but my impression was that elm would be the absolute last thing the original questioner would want.
18:16:34 <dolio> I thought it was all about writing the website in some kind of FRP methodology.
18:17:10 <dminuoso> For what its worth, I wholeheartedly agree with gensyst's original proposition of unobstrusive JavaScript.
18:17:44 <dminuoso> My experience is not as dark, as a NoScript user there's some websites that dont work, but plenty that do.
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18:43:47 <maerwald> I usually just pretend I only know backend
18:43:51 <maerwald> which is a lie, but yeah
18:46:23 <[exa]> very practical
18:46:25 <janus> maerwald: how do you judge whether purescript is successful or not?
18:46:53 <maerwald> janus: that's my impression... I didn't write a paper on it
18:47:43 <maerwald> e.g. how many times it was mentioned in job postings/interviews, how often I saw actual purescript codebases, etc
18:48:08 <janus> i don't care about those things because i already have a job writing purescript :P
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18:48:23 <janus> in a way i'd say it beats haskell on some fronts, like e.g. the ecosystem is more unified
18:48:24 <maerwald> yeah, I reviewed a purescript codebase once too
18:48:36 <janus> e.g. the quickcheck package for purescript also supports the hedgehog way of working
18:48:55 <janus> and there is no argument about BlockArguments because you can't turn it off ;)
18:49:05 <gensyst> dminuoso, exactly! so this leaves haskell out. i think purescript is the way
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18:51:25 <maerwald> I mean yeah... row types are cool, but I can have the same benefits with typescripts structural typing and less complexity
18:51:36 <maerwald> and I find devs easier
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18:52:06 <maerwald> and Haskell is huge pain on that front indeed
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18:52:27 <maerwald> converting between "web types" etc
18:53:51 <[exa]> `unsafeCoerceJSON`
18:54:49 <monochrom> Someone missed the opportunity of calling it "column polymorphism" :) when they defined the dual or row polymorphism, i.e., whereas row polymorphism is some kind of open product, they defined a corresponding kind of open sum.
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18:56:57 <dolio> I don't think there's anything about GHCJS that requires building your whole website in javascript. But if you're just looking for a haskell-like language to generate small JS functions, purescript is probably more suitable, I guess.
18:58:11 <geekosaur> not so much "requires" as "invites the sunk cost fallacy" imo
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19:55:08 <dsal> Does anyone have a pointer for how I might go about making a docker image for an app I've got (binary + some extra files)? I've only barely used docker in a while and all the stuff I've found makes it seem excessively complicated.
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20:03:26 <maerwald> dsal: https://gist.github.com/hasufell/f0893abfbba63ac4ea40feb0520946ee
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20:04:30 <dsal> maerwald: Thanks!
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20:06:28 <ProfSimm> When you get state in a monad and you return modified state for next call, who stores that state
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20:06:56 <Rembane> ProfSimm: You do, but in a sneaky way.
20:08:01 <ProfSimm> But. We can't mutate state right
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20:08:23 <Rembane> ProfSimm: Indeed, but we can change the state we send to a function call.
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20:08:41 <maerwald> there's no mutation, it's just passed around in a tuple along with the function result
20:08:47 <ProfSimm> Doesn't that imply we have that state in the first place, so we can send it
20:09:03 <geekosaur> runState provides it
20:09:19 <ProfSimm> So I'm guessing runState cheats
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20:09:31 <geekosaur> huh?
20:09:46 <geekosaur> you have some very odd ideas of how State works
20:10:05 <ProfSimm> I have no ideas
20:10:46 <geekosaur> then you have nothing to guessfrom
20:11:25 <Rembane> ProfSimm: You can replace the state monad with a tuple as maerwald said. Maybe you've encountered that already?
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20:11:59 <maerwald> `foo :: Int -> State Bool String` is equivalent to `foo :: Int -> Bool -> (Bool, String)`
20:12:15 <maerwald> where Bool is the state
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20:12:41 <geekosaur> State is s -> (a,s). runState provides the first `s`, and produces the final `(a,s)`
20:12:59 <geekosaur> pretty much can't get more transparent than that
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20:18:15 <Inst[m]> you're probably more thinking of IORef etc
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20:21:31 <monochrom> Some of my students found it helpful to expand the defintions of put, get, and >>= in "put 5 >>= get". Then they finally agreed that the state storage is emulated by parameter passing.
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20:22:26 <monochrom> It also helps that I frame the whole story as "the fairy tale of mutable state implemented by the reality of mathematics". Ah, the irony.
20:22:47 <ProfSimm> monochrom: is it that way though
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20:23:17 <geekosaur> how about you do the exercise monochrom suggested
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20:24:06 <ProfSimm> Passing parameters is not the issue, but IO as Inst[m] noted
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20:25:11 <monochrom> IO is a different story that I didn't teach.
20:26:59 <ProfSimm> I'm thinking in general terms about how an isolated function can encode mutations as commands it returns and input is the world it sees resulting from the previous commands it returned
20:27:00 <monochrom> But it's the compiler generating appropriate code for you.
20:27:11 <ProfSimm> Gives us mutability, transactions, and still pure code in the function
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20:32:06 <monochrom> (hrm, so that's what it does)
20:33:43 <ProfSimm> All programming paradigms, imperative, functional, dataflow, start looking like syntactical variations of the same thing when you look at it in a certain way
20:34:57 <maerwald> yeah, because the hardware is the same
20:35:23 <Sqaure> janus: Have you checked out Miso? Its just like Elm but haskell.
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20:35:56 <Sqaure> ive had a solid experience with it.
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20:37:16 <ProfSimm> maerwald: well I mean at a higher level.
20:38:19 <maerwald> is that a snoop dogg meme?
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20:45:16 <koala_man> how can I go Map k (Maybe v) -> Map k v by deleting all the Nothings? Is there something neater than mapMaybe + from/toAscList?
20:46:26 <monochrom> Data.Map's filter may help.
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20:48:21 <koala_man> oh, there *is* a Map.mapMaybe, not sure how I missed that
20:48:29 <jackdk> na, that's not type-changing. yeah you want mapMaybe id
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20:48:58 <koala_man> thanks!
20:48:58 <monochrom> Oh darn. Yeah mapMaybe.
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20:59:27 <Inst[m]> <ProfSimm> "All programming paradigms..." <- i mean tbh the easier way to arrive at this is just do FP in an imperative language
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21:00:50 <monochrom> No, do Prolog-style in imperative languages, to appreciate how it's "just" "syntax sugar".
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21:12:09 <dolio> It's a mere 60 pages in SICP.
21:13:35 <mjrosenb> Sqaure: janus: I've also had good experiences with miso.
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22:17:01 <zwro[m]> test
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23:13:48 <jackdk> zwro[m]: hello
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23:25:24 <FernandoChu[m]> <zwro[m]> "test" <- hello x2
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23:47:00 <dibblego> koala_man: catMaybes = mapMaybe id
23:47:10 <dibblego> oh wait no Map, nothing nothing
23:47:16 <koala_man> dibblego!!
23:47:25 <dibblego> koala_man!! I'm about to head out
23:48:05 <koala_man> dibblego: I have some knot tying I can't finish that you may have some thoughts on later
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23:48:12 <dibblego> ok, about an hour
23:48:16 <koala_man> \o/
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All times are in UTC on 2022-02-15.