Logs on 2022-03-02 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:48:31 | <thebunnyaccount0> | this doesn't let you see chat history does it? first time using one of these |
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| 00:49:41 | <monochrom> | The IRC servers don't keep history. But someone else do, see the "topic" line for the URL. |
| 00:50:19 | <thebunnyaccount0> | thank you! |
| 00:50:29 | <monochrom> | More precisely, someone volunteered to take and post logs for this channel. |
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| 00:51:06 | <thebunnyaccount0> | is this where a lot of haskell still congregates? first time learning it and the book i'm reading alludes to that |
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| 00:52:14 | <monochrom> | Yes. But we no longer have the monopoly. (We used to.) There are now also a subreddit and the discourse.haskell.org web forum. |
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| 00:55:02 | <thebunnyaccount0> | awesome, appreciate the insight |
| 00:55:45 | <Axman6> | This is usually the fastest place to get help though |
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| 01:04:01 | <thebunnyaccount0> | thanks :) |
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| 01:07:33 | <Axman6> | How on earth people can complain about GHC's type errors when Scala exists I will never know. what an absolute trashfire |
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| 01:09:20 | <geekosaur> | that it can be done worse doesn't mean it can't be done better |
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| 01:12:05 | <Axman6> | yeah, but it's people who use scala that I hear claiming it's bad. Like fix your own house first |
| 01:12:40 | <monochrom> | Perhaps they complain about scala in scala forums too? :) |
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| 01:14:23 | <monochrom> | Then again there is always the alternative hypothesis that they mean "do it the scala way" :) |
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| 01:15:56 | <monochrom> | I am very conservative about complaining about GHC type error messages. About the only time when I respect such a complaint was when the author showed a comparable Rust case. |
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| 01:17:30 | <monochrom> | Apart from that, most complaints I saw are anedotally short-sighted. |
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| 01:28:24 | <anon44409248> | I previously installed haskell via ghcup but now it seems whenever I try to type ghci on the terminal it says command not found, I opened up vscode where I was previously writing code in and it couldn't find haskell, saying it wasn't installed, when I tried to reinstall it I get this error: "_eghcup upgrade" failed! |
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| 01:29:17 | <anon44409248> | has anyone else had this issue before? |
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| 01:42:56 | <Artem[m]> | anon44409248: purge `~/.ghcup` and install ghcup again? And then ghc... |
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| 01:45:18 | <anon44409248> | Artem[m]: should I move to bin? or is purge a terminal command? |
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| 01:46:32 | <Artem[m]> | anon44409248: sorry, I meant `rm -rf ~/ghcup` |
| 01:46:41 | <Artem[m]> | s/~//~/./ |
| 01:46:53 | <Artem[m]> | s/~//~/./ |
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| 01:47:35 | <anon44409248> | I moved to bin and try to run the curl command again but I get this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/8gnmqm3r |
| 01:48:29 | <geekosaur> | uh |
| 01:48:40 | <geekosaur> | "Killed: 9" is baaaad |
| 01:48:53 | <Artem[m]> | Could you do the rm command i ahowed above and confirm that .ghcup does not exist before doing ciel? |
| 01:48:56 | <geekosaur> | you'll have to check the kernel log to see what did it |
| 01:49:00 | <Artem[m]> | s/ciel/curl/ |
| 01:49:08 | <anon44409248> | wait what |
| 01:49:13 | <Artem[m]> | s/ahowed/showed/, s/ciel/curl/ |
| 01:49:21 | <anon44409248> | ok |
| 01:50:46 | <anon44409248> | ok I ran the rm -rf ~/.ghcup |
| 01:51:07 | <anon44409248> | geekosaur: why is kill 9 bad? |
| 01:51:33 | <anon44409248> | what is ciel? |
| 01:51:38 | <geekosaur> | a typo for curl |
| 01:51:47 | <anon44409248> | oh |
| 01:52:06 | <anon44409248> | So I've done the rm -rf ~/.ghcup, I will now try to reinstall it |
| 01:52:08 | <anon44409248> | right? |
| 01:52:17 | <Artem[m]> | Yep |
| 01:52:28 | <geekosaur> | anyway signal 9 usually means something like a missing shared object, or using too much memory and the OOM killer got it, or some other violation of system policies |
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| 01:54:12 | <anon44409248> | it doesn't seem to work https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tPboxOtr |
| 01:54:36 | <anon44409248> | what's a missing shared object? what's an OOM killer? |
| 01:54:44 | <geekosaur> | oh boy |
| 01:55:09 | <anon44409248> | ?? |
| 01:55:15 | <anon44409248> | man, you're worrying me |
| 01:55:20 | <anon44409248> | :( |
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| 01:55:53 | <geekosaur> | just because I don't know what you do and don't know about linux |
| 01:55:59 | <geekosaur> | which makes explaining things harder |
| 01:56:19 | <anon44409248> | is my mac done for? |
| 01:56:27 | <geekosaur> | no |
| 01:56:32 | <anon44409248> | ok |
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| 01:56:40 | <geekosaur> | oh this isn;t linux? |
| 01:57:00 | <anon44409248> | nope |
| 01:57:03 | <geekosaur> | that makes the "Killed:9" even more worrisome because Apple has alot more restrictive system policies |
| 01:57:22 | <anon44409248> | what sort of policies? |
| 01:57:33 | <geekosaur> | like "won't run untrusted programs" |
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| 01:58:45 | <geekosaur> | someone has to spend $100 for a developer code-signing key and sign any program they expect other people to be able to run without having to switch off system security policy on their Mac |
| 01:59:09 | <anon44409248> | I literally had haskell installed 2 weeks ago working perfectly |
| 01:59:27 | <anon44409248> | this is a personal mac, I am the only user |
| 01:59:37 | <geekosaur> | could still be a shared object issue also but I'd expect it to complain about a missing dylib in that case |
| 01:59:39 | <Artem[m]> | anon44409248: do you have enough of space? https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/166 |
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| 02:00:56 | <anon44409248> | I'm just reading through that but I have 156 gb available |
| 02:01:27 | <Artem[m]> | That should be enough |
| 02:01:39 | <sm> | anon44409248: I hit this recently, it was a ghcup bug. The latest binary was corrupt (stripped but not re-signed, so monterrey(?) rejects it). maerwald updated it though I though |
| 02:01:40 | <sm> | t |
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| 02:02:11 | <Artem[m]> | Maybe opening a big report is in order... |
| 02:02:16 | <anon44409248> | I shouldn't have updated my mac |
| 02:02:18 | <Artem[m]> | s/big/bug/ |
| 02:02:24 | <anon44409248> | I need to do a uni assignment |
| 02:02:27 | <anon44409248> | fml |
| 02:02:39 | <sm> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/318 |
| 02:03:11 | <anon44409248> | anyway to downgrade it again? |
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| 02:04:44 | <sm> | I don't know.. here's the unstripped dev binary that worked for me: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/jobs/961167/artifacts/browse/out/ |
| 02:06:51 | <anon44409248> | what do I do once I download it? when I try to open it I can that there is no application set to open the documents |
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| 02:07:45 | <sm> | 1. chmod +x it 2. try to run it 3. go to system preferences > security & privacy and mark it as approved 4. now it will run |
| 02:08:48 | <sm> | at your own risk of course. Unlikely it's compromised but don't take advice from the internet to override your OS safeguards... |
| 02:09:04 | <anon44409248> | but you trust it right? |
| 02:09:12 | <sm> | I did, yes |
| 02:09:39 | <anon44409248> | what do you mean by chmod +x it? |
| 02:10:04 | <sm> | in terminal, run: chmod +x THEBINARYFILE |
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| 02:10:13 | <anon44409248> | oh |
| 02:10:17 | <sm> | this gives it the "executable" permission |
| 02:11:08 | <anon44409248> | like this: ❯ chmod +x "aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.17.5" |
| 02:11:13 | <anon44409248> | ? |
| 02:11:23 | <sm> | yes, if it's in your current directory |
| 02:11:35 | <anon44409248> | yeah I cd to downloads |
| 02:11:38 | <sm> | the quotes are fine but not needed since it has no spaces |
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| 02:12:20 | <sm> | then to try to run it: ./aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.17.5 |
| 02:12:24 | <anon44409248> | ok so nothing happens |
| 02:14:37 | <anon44409248> | ok, need to change security settings |
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| 02:14:51 | <anon44409248> | apple doesn't let me run it |
| 02:15:08 | <sm> | anon44409248: are you following my 4 step plan |
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| 02:15:23 | <sm> | success is guaranteed |
| 02:15:24 | <anon44409248> | Yeah, but where do I mark is as approved? |
| 02:15:37 | <anon44409248> | it* as.. |
| 02:16:00 | <sm> | "go to system preferences > security & privacy" - here you should see an option to approve it |
| 02:16:31 | <anon44409248> | omd |
| 02:17:19 | <anon44409248> | wait, what do I do now? it says missing command |
| 02:17:38 | <sm> | ...describe what you did ? |
| 02:18:04 | <anon44409248> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/h8DOZeM4 |
| 02:19:18 | <anon44409248> | ok I just tried ./[filename] install |
| 02:19:22 | <sm> | ok, now it's working perfectly and you just need to read the help. Eg, run it with `tui` argument |
| 02:19:53 | <sm> | but you probably want to rename it and put it in your PATH, eg: mv aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.17.5 /usr/local/bin/ghcup |
| 02:19:58 | <anon44409248> | should I have not done install? |
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| 02:20:36 | <sm> | tui is nicer |
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| 02:20:55 | <sm> | gotta go, good luck |
| 02:21:46 | <anon44409248> | permission denied |
| 02:21:50 | <anon44409248> | f |
| 02:22:27 | <sm> | sudo mv aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.17.5 /usr/local/bin/ghcup , then |
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| 02:32:10 | <anon44409248> | how do I move it from /usr/local/bin/ghcup to /Users/sr ? |
| 02:38:13 | <anon44409248> | ghci is still not working :( |
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| 02:57:56 | <sm> | anon44409248: have you got to where the command "ghcup --version" works ? |
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| 05:21:37 | <iqubic> | So, I'm trying to install Taffybar on Arch Linux. Since it's not in the Arch repos, I need to figure out how to install Taffybar myself. |
| 05:21:40 | <iqubic> | How do I do this? |
| 05:21:59 | <iqubic> | The github repo mentions that I can just run "cabal install taffybar" |
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| 05:24:43 | <iqubic> | Running "cabal install exe:taffybar" fails with this issue: https://dpaste.com/HUAGWH529 |
| 05:24:58 | <iqubic> | Is this just some quirk of how Haskell works on Arch Linux? |
| 05:30:41 | <sm> | man.. "cabal hell" is alive and well |
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| 05:31:55 | <sclv> | iqubic: a dependency of taffybar cant build with the version of ghc you are using |
| 05:32:05 | <iqubic> | How can I deal with this? |
| 05:32:27 | <iqubic> | I'm using GHC 9.0.2 |
| 05:32:37 | <sm> | iqubic: I'll just throw out a guess: your `ghc --version` in PATH is incompatible with these packages, use one that they were last released with |
| 05:33:24 | <iqubic> | How do I change the version of GHC I have on my system path? I'm using Arch Linux, btw. |
| 05:34:01 | <sm> | ghcup is one way, stack is another |
| 05:34:04 | <int-e> | So... evidently this isn't the hackage version of taffybar. |
| 05:34:24 | <sclv> | alternatively try using the hackage version of taffybar. |
| 05:34:51 | <int-e> | (does any version of cabal-install accept exe:foo instead of foo:exe?) |
| 05:34:55 | <sclv> | the github repo has, for some weird reason, a dep on a coinbase api which is causing the breakage |
| 05:35:33 | <iqubic> | int-e, you're right. I had cloned the taffybar repo and was running the "cabal install exe:taffybar" command in that repo. |
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| 05:38:03 | <iqubic> | I've now run the "cabal install taffybar" command in ~ and I'm now getting these errors: https://dpaste.com/8APW2SMCL |
| 05:38:45 | <sclv> | ok lmao now this is the classic arch linux problem |
| 05:38:54 | <iqubic> | What's the issue here? |
| 05:39:27 | <sclv> | arch doesn’t package the static libs in its ghc distri |
| 05:39:31 | <sm> | just walk out of the room.. leave your house.. move to another country.. get a job.. buy a new computer with anything but arch preinstalled.. and retry |
| 05:39:42 | <sclv> | Don’t listen to sm |
| 05:39:49 | <int-e> | Now we're running into how "how Haskell works on Arch Linux" is oxymoronic |
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| 05:39:56 | <iqubic> | What can I do to fix this? |
| 05:40:34 | <sm> | I'm usually not that guy, but I've reached my limit with arch haskell support. Yup don't listen to me |
| 05:40:36 | <sclv> | haskell on arch is broken, and you can install a fresh ghc with ghcup to avoid the mess or you can lean into it and read their faq which describes a dynamic only workflow that works sometimes |
| 05:40:44 | <int-e> | My fix when I was using Arch was to not use Arch's ghc packages except for bootstrapping. ghcup is probably the path of least resistance these days |
| 05:41:06 | <iqubic> | Why do people hate Haskell on Arch? |
| 05:41:12 | <sm> | (I could fix it with stack, but I won't) |
| 05:41:15 | <sclv> | right. they just package it in a way unusable for developers and won’t listen to reason |
| 05:41:50 | <int-e> | Because Arch is a rolling release but Haskell's dynamic libraries have no backward ABI compatibility. And they refuse to make the compromise of shipping static libraries. |
| 05:41:55 | <sclv> | we tell them that they need to package static and dynamic libs both, and the maintainers just say “no.” |
| 05:42:01 | <sm> | we're sick of supporting these unending problems |
| 05:42:32 | <sclv> | installing ghc outside of the arch toolchain works fine. |
| 05:42:40 | <int-e> | (Do they also split runtime and devel packages? I forgot. That may be the immediate issue.) |
| 05:43:02 | <int-e> | (But if you solve that you'll run into the rolling release issue later. Not worth it.) |
| 05:43:08 | <sclv> | they give a “static” pkg for ghc itself iirc. but its messy for some reason |
| 05:43:40 | <iqubic> | How can I get ghcup on Arch? |
| 05:43:59 | <sclv> | https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ |
| 05:44:06 | <int-e> | And in contrast to Gentoo, Arch users are not used to stuff breaking all the time. :-P So Arch gets all the hate. |
| 05:44:43 | <sclv> | here’s arch’s haskell faq if you’re curious about the messy details https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/haskell |
| 05:44:49 | <int-e> | (Arch really worked surprisingly well *except for* the Haskell part, when I used it.) |
| 05:49:44 | <int-e> | "you'll run into the rolling release issue later" *and* it will be a huge nuisance because it'll break your taffybar (and xmonad if that's what you're using it with). |
| 05:50:19 | <iqubic> | I'm using xmonad, yeah. |
| 05:50:25 | <int-e> | (Unless they ship xmonad and that somehow works? I don't know.) |
| 05:50:52 | <iqubic> | I have xmonad installed via the packages in the Arch repo. And that just works, somehow. |
| 05:51:04 | <iqubic> | I've never really looked into how it works, but it does. |
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| 05:51:21 | <int-e> | Okay. It's probably best not to ask ;-) |
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| 05:52:05 | <iqubic> | Alright, actually, I'm using xmonad-git and xmonad-contrib-git, both from the AUR. |
| 05:52:07 | <iqubic> | https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/xmonad-git |
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| 05:52:41 | <iqubic> | This is how it's being compiled: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=xmonad-git |
| 05:53:23 | <iqubic> | Fucking hell. Why are Arch Linux and Haskell like water and tar?!?!? |
| 05:53:37 | <iqubic> | *water and oil. |
| 05:54:33 | <iqubic> | I just installed ghcup, and tried running "cabal install taffybar". Same issues arise. |
| 05:55:02 | <int-e> | It's a fundamental disagreement about the nature of shared libraries and ABIs. |
| 05:55:14 | <sclv> | you need to make sure cabal is finding the new ghc you installed in your path |
| 05:55:53 | <iqubic> | sciv: How can I do that? |
| 05:56:27 | <sclv> | well check your path and configure it |
| 05:56:36 | <int-e> | Arch's whole packaging is based on the idea that by and large, new versions of shared libraries are backward compatible. And GHC breaks that, badly. |
| 05:56:46 | <sclv> | or explicitly path a —with-ghc option to cabal |
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| 06:06:42 | <iqubic> | Alright, I've switched over from using the AUR packages for xmonad to using the cabal versions via ghcup. |
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| 06:08:58 | <iqubic> | How will I make sure that I can access the XMonad-Contrib library modules from XMonad.hs |
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| 06:12:24 | <iqubic> | Well.... this is annoying: https://dpaste.com/5TPYJDYP9 |
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| 06:15:34 | <iqubic> | Oh, just installing "gobject-introspection" with the Arch package manager deal with that. |
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| 08:05:08 | <yushyin> | "How will I make sure that I can access the XMonad-Contrib library modules from XMonad.hs" https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/blob/master/INSTALL.md#install-everything-1 |
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| 11:05:44 | <dminuoso> | Oh yes, Im starting to think if we were able to attach arbitrary information to data constructors and fields outside the type system, that would simplify generics in so many ways. |
| 11:06:07 | <dminuoso> | One of the most annoying thing about Servant is dealing with these complicated types, and extending it relies on working with complicated typeclass magic to decompose these types.. |
| 11:06:24 | <dminuoso> | And every diagnostic produces utterly unreadable types, it makes haddock hard to deal with.. |
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| 11:15:56 | <kuribas> | I think dependent types and extensible records would make a servant-like API much nicer to work with. |
| 11:16:09 | <kuribas> | Because the specification is a Value, not a Type. |
| 11:16:20 | <dminuoso> | Dependent types do not generally improve the quality of your life. |
| 11:16:31 | <dminuoso> | Otherwise you'd have wraths of Haskellers switch to Idris. |
| 11:16:35 | <kuribas> | No, but they improve the quality of my code :) |
| 11:17:12 | <kuribas> | I mean, it's just like FP, static types, etc... you need to use when to use them, and use them well. |
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| 11:18:35 | <kuribas> | For example, dynamic language claim to have more freedom, but I can easily use clojure techniques in haskell, (by writing non-total functions), but I cannot easily introduce static typing in clojure. |
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| 11:18:49 | <kuribas> | It's just the same with dependent types. |
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| 11:23:13 | <dminuoso> | Im not convinced that the code would improve in the general sense. |
| 11:24:22 | <Franciman> | dminuoso: idris doesn't have the same amount of libraries that haskell has |
| 11:25:44 | <dminuoso> | Ultimately with dependent types you don't quite solve the ergonomics problems that I mentioned above. |
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| 11:32:36 | <elkcl> | hi! Is there any way to check if a field of a record is uninitialised? |
| 11:33:58 | <dminuoso> | elkcl: -Wall |
| 11:34:10 | <dminuoso> | And ideally even configure GHC so it will error out on it. |
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| 11:36:19 | <elkcl> | No, I mean in the program. Like, I have a value of a record type and I need to check if all the fields were initialized |
| 11:36:31 | <tomsmeding> | impossible to check |
| 11:36:37 | <dminuoso> | Well not *quite* impossible. |
| 11:37:00 | <tomsmeding> | at least, if you want to distinguish between uninitialised and "initialised with `undefined`" |
| 11:37:09 | <dminuoso> | You can individually force all fields, and catch exceptions in IO. But you will have a really hard time distinguishing uninitialized from other bottoms. |
| 11:37:15 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 11:37:19 | <dminuoso> | But really, -Wall is what you probably should be using |
| 11:37:25 | <dminuoso> | You shouldnt have uninitialized fields to begin with |
| 11:37:39 | <dminuoso> | Or use Maybe if you want to encode the potential lack of a field |
| 11:39:44 | <elkcl> | ok, I think I'll just use Maybe instead then, thanks |
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| 11:52:38 | <mason0> | hi. is there a crossplatform (at minimum linux and windows) library that reading from keyboard without waiting for enter to be pressed? haskeline seemed promising at first, and it does have getInputCharSource that reads character without waiting for a newline, but it also displays that character with seemingly no way to disable that, and it can't read presses from non-printable keys. |
| 11:52:48 | <mason0> | that can read* |
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| 11:55:53 | <byorgey> | mason0: I think https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vty can do that, though it seems a bit overkill if all you want to do is read keypresses |
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| 11:57:00 | <mason0> | ideally I want a getline that displays pressed characters, supports arrow keys, but also allows me to bind certain keys to certain actions |
| 11:57:12 | <byorgey> | actually, I might be wrong, I don't know if that supports windows. |
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| 11:58:53 | <mason0> | even better if it supported history, like haskeline, but I'd be happy with just above. I tried hacking something with termios on linux and getch on windows, and display the line with \r, but it looks very weird, as terminal cursor is always at the beginning of the line |
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| 12:00:27 | <mason0> | I just read the link you provided, and yeah vty doesn't support windows. |
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| 12:10:53 | <anon44409248> | sm: Nope, it doesn't work, but it says GHCup is installed and GHC is installed |
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| 12:21:10 | <SnowNeo> | how is everyone doin |
| 12:21:20 | <SnowNeo> | jackdk man you're stil here |
| 12:21:27 | <SnowNeo> | i've not been here in a WHILE |
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| 12:23:26 | <byorgey> | hi SnowNeo |
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| 12:24:02 | <SnowNeo> | hey |
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| 12:28:46 | <absence> | when building a project using nix, it seems like all haskell dependencies are fetched from nixpkgs. but if i run the cabal command in nix-shell (repl, build, etc), i have to run cabal update first, and it appears to fetch dependencies from hackage. that seems wrong, can i configure cabal to use the dependencies already fetched by nix? |
| 12:29:03 | <dminuoso> | absence: Mmm, you cant trivially |
| 12:29:28 | <dminuoso> | Also you wont get coherence between the two builds |
| 12:29:41 | <dminuoso> | The best you could do is use haskell.nix - but `cabal build` will still use a separate build process |
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| 12:30:22 | <dminuoso> | absence: I would use haskell.nix, and then use nix-shell with their hooks to get a cabal repl suitable |
| 12:31:05 | <dminuoso> | Oh wow. I should be reading news. 3.6.0.0 has nix support it seems? |
| 12:32:38 | <geekosaur> | nix support of some variety has been there since 2.0 |
| 12:33:07 | <geekosaur> | but it means being able to build stuff from nix instead of from hackage,it still uses its own install plan instead of nix's |
| 12:33:13 | <dminuoso> | I wonder what that integration even deos |
| 12:33:15 | <dminuoso> | It doesnt say |
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| 12:33:44 | <absence> | geekosaur: does "its own install plan" mean that dependencies are downloaded from hackage? |
| 12:33:51 | <geekosaur> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.6/nix-integration.html |
| 12:34:56 | <geekosaur> | it's a bit out of date as it talks about sandboxes but they were removed in 3.x |
| 12:35:07 | <dminuoso> | Ive read that page twice, it really doesnt say anything |
| 12:35:14 | <geekosaur> | absence, no, it means it doesn't use nix derivations directly |
| 12:35:19 | <dminuoso> | Based on that alone I wouldnt know what the heck this did for me. |
| 12:35:39 | <geekosaur> | it should use them to get dependencies though |
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| 12:36:50 | <geekosaur> | biut beyond that I'd have to direct you over to #hackage |
| 12:38:51 | <absence> | geekosaur: hmm... it seems like it doesn't. if i run "cabal --enable-nix repl", it complains "The package list for 'hackage.haskell.org' does not exist.". if i repeat the command after running cabal update, it says things like "Downloading random-1.2.1" |
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| 12:43:10 | <anon44409248> | geekosaur: Haskell is working again |
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| 13:11:04 | <mason0> | is current version of ghc 9.2 still considered to buggy to switxh to |
| 13:12:43 | <geekosaur> | I would not use it onan M1 because it generates bad code. otherwise there are some bugs but generally OK. if you're really worried, stick to 8.10.7 or 9.0.2 |
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| 13:13:16 | <Axman6> | in what way does it generate bad code? |
| 13:13:33 | <geekosaur> | sign extension bugs, to be specific |
| 13:14:22 | <geekosaur> | note that 9.2.1 has a native asm backend; 9.0.2 and 8.10.7 go through LLVM for the M1 |
| 13:15:10 | <Axman6> | Don't worry GHC, I ofteen get signs wrong too, you'll figure it out! |
| 13:15:21 | <Axman6> | often too |
| 13:16:08 | <idnar> | dminuoso: I think this is all: "If the package (which must be locally unpacked) provides a shell.nix or default.nix file, this flag will cause cabal to run most commands through nix-shell" |
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| 13:16:21 | <geekosaur> | note that the ecosystem has mostly stuck to 8.10.7, because 9.0.2 is too recent for there to have been much action and there's a certain habit of avoiding .1 releases as probably being too buggy for use :) |
| 13:17:37 | <mason0> | so is that the reason why stack L is still on 8.10.7? |
| 13:17:38 | <geekosaur> | but also because there's a general feeling that ghc moves too fast and it'shard to keep up. there is some discussion of moving to an LTS release plan for ghc in the future |
| 13:17:51 | <mason0> | stack lts* |
| 13:18:30 | <geekosaur> | yes. nightly is on 9.0.2 now that it's out. but also because there have been other major changes that need to be tested against the resolver, notably aeson 2.x and text 2.x |
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| 13:18:50 | <geekosaur> | currently they're working on integrating aeson 2 |
| 13:19:38 | <dminuoso> | idnar: if that's the case, then the integration is laughable. |
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| 13:19:51 | <geekosaur> | not sure stack's is any better |
| 13:20:10 | <dminuoso> | For a nix integration I would expect cabal to use pkgs.haskellPackages |
| 13:20:18 | <geekosaur> | it's not like it's trivial to hook into nix; you need to write actual nix expressions to do that |
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| 13:36:46 | <maerwald> | imagine nix had a unix API |
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| 13:40:52 | <dminuoso> | I dont think having an "API" is the problem, it's that the nix philosophy is so inherently different from anything else thats been on linux before.. |
| 13:41:31 | <dminuoso> | Because in principle you can call `nix` and `nix-build` just fine |
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| 13:42:47 | <maerwald> | yeah, it doesn't fit well into existing linux concepts... FHS, unix, requires patchelf tricks, etc.. But then again, I'm not sure you could achieve all that with the old linux concepts |
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| 13:43:22 | <maerwald> | the only alternative probably *is* containerization... but not sure that's so much more "unix" |
| 13:43:28 | <dminuoso> | So patchelf is an interesting one. In principle you never need patchelf... is software was truly portably written. |
| 13:43:36 | <dminuoso> | And there's plenty of nix packages that can get away without patchelf |
| 13:43:42 | <maerwald> | well, now nix defines what is "portable" ;) |
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| 13:44:05 | <maerwald> | I remember a GHC update breaking all of haskell's nix ecosystem in the early days |
| 13:44:22 | <maerwald> | but hey, GHC can break ghcup too |
| 13:44:23 | <dminuoso> | Okay so its definitely up to whatever you define as portable. But there's plenty of software with poor build systems or hardcoded paths. |
| 13:44:29 | <geekosaur> | freebsd seems to do okay with its containerized builds (poudriere?) |
| 13:45:02 | <dminuoso> | And from experience, patchelf is usually required when software makes very specific assumptions like "I expect to be inside a debian 10" |
| 13:45:02 | <maerwald> | but in unix, file locations *are* kinda part of API |
| 13:45:26 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: One that in recent years has drastically reduced in quality. :( |
| 13:45:49 | <maerwald> | yes and snap etc. don't make it better |
| 13:45:52 | <dminuoso> | It seems the only folks that are somewhat aware of these filesystem conventions are a few package maintainers at debian and other distributions. |
| 13:46:15 | <geekosaur> | debian came up with FHS; I'd hope they'd be aware of it |
| 13:46:20 | <maerwald> | I think the future are static binaries. Tool support needs to become better. |
| 13:46:43 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, given how prominent glibc is, I dont think static binaries are in anyones near future |
| 13:46:45 | <maerwald> | E.g. I want to run "check <static-binary>" and see if it contains symbols that are known to be vulnerable |
| 13:46:53 | <dminuoso> | Besides, they greatly complicate shipping security patches |
| 13:47:06 | <lechner> | i am joining the right conversation i think |
| 13:47:08 | <maerwald> | that's just a logistic problem |
| 13:47:17 | <maerwald> | static binaries can be made secure |
| 13:47:18 | <lechner> | Hi, i only use cabal. Is stack really part of the official tool chain now? https://www.haskell.org/downloads/ |
| 13:47:19 | <dminuoso> | Sure, its a logistics problem, but a very large one |
| 13:47:25 | <geekosaur> | also a way to do static-except-for-libc to solve the glibc problem |
| 13:47:38 | <geekosaur> | lechner, it's an official alternative |
| 13:47:57 | <lechner> | i have to do something about debian's toolchain i think |
| 13:48:13 | <dminuoso> | When you have 5,000 packages using openssl, then you need to annoy 5000 package maintainers to *promptly* ship a new build. And each of these maintainers needs to annoy the upstream developer, if they even still exist, are alive, are available, have time for you, to promptly put in a fix |
| 13:48:19 | <geekosaur> | the community is 50-50 stack vs. cabal, so it'skinda difficult to try to push for one vs. the other without leaving a lot of people out in the cold |
| 13:48:27 | <maerwald> | dminuoso: huh? |
| 13:48:28 | <dminuoso> | It's just very unrealistic to get an openssl fix into these 5,000 packages in anything less than a month. |
| 13:48:42 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: well, Im just talking from a distribution point of view. |
| 13:48:45 | <maerwald> | dminuoso: for a distro, it's *irrelevant*, whether a package is linked statically or dynamically |
| 13:48:50 | <maerwald> | nothing changes from that pov |
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| 13:48:56 | <dminuoso> | of course it does. |
| 13:49:02 | <maerwald> | not really no |
| 13:49:09 | <lechner> | maerwald: it does |
| 13:49:10 | <maerwald> | the package manager knows whether the binary is insecure |
| 13:49:13 | <maerwald> | no |
| 13:49:23 | <dminuoso> | when openssl has a new CVE, you just have one package to update. |
| 13:49:26 | <maerwald> | you're not relying on the dynamic libs to figure this out |
| 13:49:29 | <dminuoso> | with static linking you potentially have thousands. |
| 13:49:35 | <maerwald> | yes, and? |
| 13:49:35 | <lechner> | sources and installables are tied |
| 13:49:45 | <maerwald> | distros have build machines? |
| 13:50:07 | <lechner> | we do not know how to update vendored sources |
| 13:50:20 | <maerwald> | whether you update dynamically linked openssl or 200 packages makes little difference in a distro with good CI, such as OpenSUSE |
| 13:50:29 | <maerwald> | lechner: that's a different topic |
| 13:50:42 | <dminuoso> | Maybe you're right |
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| 13:51:21 | <maerwald> | it's more about: 1. attaching proper metadata to static binaries and 2. having an easy way to do mass upgrades |
| 13:51:23 | <dminuoso> | I mean it does have some inconveniences like notably increased disk usage |
| 13:51:37 | <dminuoso> | Not that this is a valid counter argument, but it is an inconvenience |
| 13:51:53 | <dminuoso> | maerwald: to some degree, this is truly easiest with nix! :) |
| 13:52:14 | <maerwald> | I think this is pretty easy in other distros like gentoo too |
| 13:52:20 | <dminuoso> | because the build process of mass buildign everything with an updated dependency is a built in feature |
| 13:52:29 | <dminuoso> | hydra does this every day |
| 13:52:34 | <maerwald> | you can do that in gentoo as well |
| 13:52:37 | <maerwald> | it's not even complicated |
| 13:52:53 | <maerwald> | figuring out reverse dependencies |
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| 13:53:07 | <geekosaur> | if the distro doesn;'t already have a way to do this then it's broken. (see arch which just broke its haskell packages *again* because they don't get theirdeps right) |
| 13:53:28 | <maerwald> | I'm not even sure pacman has a concept of reverse dependencies |
| 13:54:05 | <lechner> | consuming sources or installables is a better term |
| 13:54:48 | <lechner> | or prerequisite |
| 13:54:58 | <dminuoso> | At any rate, the biggest problem with static linking is the prominence of Drepper's extremist religious point of view. |
| 13:55:10 | <dminuoso> | With so many distributions built ontop of glibc, you're not getting static linking anywhere. |
| 13:55:19 | <dminuoso> | So foremost, it's technically not feasible. :p |
| 13:55:36 | <geekosaur> | sure it is. just need a better way to do static--except-for-libc |
| 13:55:45 | <geekosaur> | the linker can do that, it's just painful currently |
| 13:56:05 | <dminuoso> | Like I said. Technically not feasible. :p |
| 13:56:08 | <geekosaur> | and nearly impossible the way Cabal-the-lib treats linker parameters |
| 13:56:22 | <maerwald> | that's a dark rabbit hole |
| 13:56:26 | <maerwald> | very dark |
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| 13:58:42 | <maerwald> | but there's a trick with extra-lib-dirs and dumping static libs there |
| 13:59:46 | <geekosaur> | I seem to recall coming up with that hack after fighting with cabal over it :) |
| 14:00:18 | <geekosaur> | and then carefully analyzing which stanzas put wich information where in the link line |
| 14:00:41 | <geekosaur> | to help someone who was trying to link stuff statically early on |
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| 14:01:38 | <geekosaur> | I may have filed a Cabal bug about it putting link libs at the start of the linker command instead of the end, because it didn't work for static libs |
| 14:03:18 | <geekosaur> | (I know I complained to them about it, at minimum) |
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| 14:09:40 | <lechner> | maerwald: i think you gave me an idea. thank you |
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| 14:26:55 | <mason0> | is it possible to write type safe printf without using template haskell, and with string literals used as format? |
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| 14:27:43 | <geekosaur> | depends on howyou define "string literal" |
| 14:28:11 | <maerwald> | only with dependent types |
| 14:28:15 | <mason0> | ideally just "this", but if that is not possible, then I guess something else |
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| 14:28:20 | <maerwald> | everything else is a pseudo-string literal |
| 14:28:26 | <mason0> | maerwald, with ghc extensions haskell is half-way there, no? |
| 14:29:11 | <geekosaur> | there is category-printf but I'm told it's not really for practical use |
| 14:30:04 | <geekosaur> | there's also typelits-printf but it's technically using a Symbol instead of a String |
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| 14:36:53 | <kuribas> | Symbol is just a typelevel string. |
| 14:37:34 | <geekosaur> | yes, that''s why I said "technically" |
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| 14:40:40 | <kuribas> | well, you cannot get type safety without using types. |
| 14:40:59 | <kuribas> | But format is probably the more idiomatic haskell thing to use. |
| 14:41:28 | <kuribas> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/formatting-7.1.3/docs/Formatting.html |
| 14:41:49 | <kuribas> | It's typesafe without resorting to fancy haskell. |
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| 14:43:29 | <maerwald> | not much different from `"foo" <> show bar <> "lol"` |
| 14:44:47 | <mason0> | geekosaur, so category-printf uses what appears to be string literal, but is actually object of different type? |
| 14:45:38 | <geekosaur> | no, that's typelits-printf |
| 14:45:46 | <geekosaur> | I don't know much about category-printf |
| 14:45:48 | <WhateverRabbit> | You can write something like this https://gist.github.com/kana-sama/a97603265fbaa0aba9f16809d535029c#file-formatf-hs-L63 using ghc 9.2 |
| 14:46:33 | <geekosaur> | there are a few other printf-like libraries that behave like Python's % operator, instead of C's printf |
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| 14:52:38 | <kuribas> | maerwald: completely different. |
| 14:52:48 | <kuribas> | maerwald: show is not for rendering output. |
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| 14:53:33 | <kuribas> | and the formatting combinators do a lot more than just "show". |
| 14:53:35 | <maerwald> | that wasn't the point |
| 14:53:53 | <maerwald> | the point is that you're not really writing anything resembling a string literal, but have operators in between etc |
| 14:54:16 | <maerwald> | you can use any other class than Show with the <> pattern |
| 14:55:59 | <kuribas> | also that repeated <> is pretty inefficient. |
| 14:56:09 | <maerwald> | not necessarily |
| 14:56:13 | <maerwald> | depends on the type |
| 14:56:16 | <kuribas> | not necessarily not. |
| 14:56:26 | <kuribas> | Which is the whole point. |
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| 14:57:42 | <kuribas> | the fact that it's a literal string is just a relic from C. |
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| 14:58:09 | <maerwald> | it's more convenient than spreading operators in between |
| 14:59:31 | <maerwald> | but I too abandoned quasi quoters... cause too many troubles with tooling |
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| 15:15:06 | <Zemyla> | Okay, so I have a naming problem. |
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| 15:17:28 | <Zemyla> | I want to add zipping traversals to the lens library, and to do that I need specialized types. One of these types is FunList: |
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| 15:18:04 | <Zemyla> | @let data FunList t b a = Done t | More a (FunList (b -> t) b a) |
| 15:18:05 | <lambdabot> | /sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:266:1: error: |
| 15:18:05 | <lambdabot> | Multiple declarations of ‘FunList’ |
| 15:18:05 | <lambdabot> | Declared at: /sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:200:1 |
| 15:18:15 | <Zemyla> | :t zipTraversal |
| 15:18:16 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => LensLike (FunApp a c) sa t a c -> LensLike (FunApp b c) sb t b c -> ((a, b) -> f c) -> (sa, sb) -> f t |
| 15:18:38 | <Zemyla> | Okay, it hasn't been @undefed in all this time? |
| 15:21:22 | <Zemyla> | @undef |
| 15:21:22 | <lambdabot> | Undefined. |
| 15:21:23 | <anon44409248> | what does it mean if the type signature for 'Lorem' lacks accompanying binding? |
| 15:21:44 | <maerwald> | it means you didn't actually write an implementation |
| 15:22:06 | <maerwald> | GHC doesn't write the code for you, yet |
| 15:24:46 | <Zemyla> | Anyways, my problem is that FunList is not a useful Applicative, both because the variables are in the wrong order and because (<*>) would be O(n) even if they were a b t instead of t b a. |
| 15:25:08 | <Zemyla> | So I have a type that acts as a difference list for FunLists: |
| 15:25:51 | <Zemyla> | newtype ??? a b t = ??? { un??? :: forall r. (forall x. ((t -> r) -> x) -> FunList x b a) -> FunList r b a } |
| 15:25:58 | <Zemyla> | What should this type be called? |
| 15:27:09 | <geekosaur> | anon44409248, are you writing in ghci? You will need to put the type signature and the definition on the same line in that case, separated by a semicolon (;) |
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| 15:28:03 | <geekosaur> | or use ghci's multiline input mode by entering `:{` on a line by itself, writing the typesignature and definition, then a line with `:}' to end the multiline entry |
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| 15:50:59 | <mason0> | any potential issues with this? :) https://paste.tomsmeding.com/0lD6vlxk |
| 15:51:32 | <cheater> | @faq can Haskell fire the rockets? |
| 15:51:32 | <lambdabot> | https://wiki.haskell.org/FAQ |
| 15:51:38 | <cheater> | :( |
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| 15:53:35 | <figurantpp> | this pureRandom unsafe thing looks unholy |
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| 15:54:44 | <figurantpp> | #join haskell-br |
| 15:54:48 | <figurantpp> | oh crap |
| 15:54:56 | <janus> | how do people remember whether it is {: or :{ ? because a smiley should always have eyes left? i just find it confusing how the order isn't flipped on closing, while for language pragmas it is |
| 15:55:36 | <figurantpp> | trial and error |
| 15:56:04 | <janus> | that's not helping me remember it... looking for a mnemonic, some that makes it make sense |
| 15:56:10 | <lyxia> | all commands start with : |
| 15:56:17 | <niekvandepas> | This is quite silly, but I say "sad face, happy face" |
| 15:56:23 | <niekvandepas> | ":{ :}" |
| 15:56:32 | <janus> | lyxia: ooooh |
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| 15:57:40 | <geekosaur> | what lyxia says, they're ghci commands and all ghci commands start with colons |
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| 16:05:26 | <mason0> | interesting, I can't get pureRandom to work in actual code. it returns same value. but it works in ghci. odd |
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| 16:06:36 | <mason0> | I am storing this in some fields, where x is (): (\x _ -> [pureRandom x]) |
| 16:06:47 | <mason0> | this is just an experiment, I don't plan to use this in the end |
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| 16:10:17 | <figurantpp> | why doesn't the haskage page about a package have a link to the docs of it by default? |
| 16:10:24 | <figurantpp> | e.g https://hackage.haskell.org/package/PSQueue |
| 16:10:48 | <figurantpp> | oh nvm i'm just blind |
| 16:11:12 | <figurantpp> | there are actually links to it |
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| 16:15:01 | <c_wraith> | mason0: since functions are pure in haskell, GHC is free to inline the results of calling it. |
| 16:15:16 | <mason0> | I think I figured it out: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/5t17eJJQ |
| 16:15:52 | <mason0> | didn't paste x and y definitions: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/20LBJ47n |
| 16:16:23 | <c_wraith> | that only matters in ghci |
| 16:16:55 | <mason0> | how come? |
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| 16:18:13 | <c_wraith> | ghc compiles constraints as a function argument. in ghci, it will always re-solve the constraint and evaluate the function again. |
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| 16:18:37 | <c_wraith> | when ghc compiles with optimizations, it's under no such restriction |
| 16:19:06 | <c_wraith> | if it sees the value used at only one type, it will happily monomorphise it. |
| 16:19:40 | <c_wraith> | Then if it shares the value, everywhere that uses it will see the same thing. Wherever it inlines will see something different. |
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| 16:20:09 | <mason0> | okay. I am kind of glad that it can't be done safely (unless it can? :) ) |
| 16:20:18 | <c_wraith> | It can't |
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| 16:21:25 | <Guest|76> | Hi I was wondering if there is a ghcup distribution in a .deb package that we can use to install with puppet? |
| 16:21:25 | <c_wraith> | GHC heavily relies on the purity of expressions in its optimizations. When an expression isn't actually pure, things get very weird. |
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| 16:22:22 | <maerwald> | Guest|76: not that I know of. The binary is static, so all you'd need to do is curl it. |
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| 16:23:01 | <Guest|76> | We were hoping to install it to be used by multiple users on multiple systems |
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| 16:24:24 | <geekosaur> | ghcup expects too be installed per user so it can (among other things) update itself |
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| 16:24:52 | <Guest|76> | Okay thanks for your help |
| 16:24:55 | <geekosaur> | and its general idea is to avoid conflicting with OS packages, so itself being an OS package would be odd |
| 16:25:06 | <maerwald> | geekosaur: not entirely true |
| 16:25:14 | <maerwald> | ghcup can be put just fine in /usr/local/bin |
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| 16:25:23 | <maerwald> | ghcup upgrade does not upgrade in-place by default |
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| 16:26:34 | <maerwald> | there's also a cabal flag now to disable upgrade functionality, which is used by the brew package |
| 16:27:17 | <maerwald> | Guest|76: yes, you can just put it in /usr/bin or so... when a user executes a command, the files end up in users home dir |
| 16:27:24 | <maerwald> | the binary does not need to reside in home dir |
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| 16:28:54 | <Guest|76> | How much space does it use? |
| 16:29:01 | <maerwald> | depends on what you install |
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| 16:29:19 | <maerwald> | a full GHC installation is about 1GB |
| 16:29:33 | <maerwald> | eh, 2GB |
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| 16:29:41 | <maerwald> | 1 if you remove profiling libs |
| 16:29:55 | <Guest|76> | Looking for GHC, cabal-install, stack and haskell-language-server |
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| 16:30:59 | <maerwald> | cabal and stack are less than 100mb, HLS may be 1GB as well |
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| 16:32:05 | <maerwald> | so minimum 4 GB I'd say |
| 16:32:19 | <maerwald> | and you need about 5GB free on /tmp |
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| 16:33:06 | <maerwald> | and then if you install haskell packages, it can range anywhere from 1GB to 50GB + |
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| 16:41:01 | <mason0> | c_wrath, I got it to work with {-# NOINLINE pureRandom #-}, as long as I pass a new () each time (so a function that calls it, needs to accept () as an argument). I am not sure if there's some edge case where this would not work, but I didn't find one |
| 16:41:54 | <c_wraith> | the important part is that it's not guaranteed to work. |
| 16:42:29 | <c_wraith> | there are legal transforms it can do which end up with it giving you the same value each time. |
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| 16:43:16 | <c_wraith> | whether a particular version of GHC does then or not may be interesting, but it doesn't tell you about the correctness of the code. |
| 16:45:31 | <Zemyla> | Why not have it take an Int instead and increment it every time? |
| 16:45:56 | <mason0> | yeah understand, just because I didn't find an edge case, doesn't mean there isn't one, even ghc I'm using. going by quick tests in ghci, even without NONLINE it *seemed* to have worked |
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| 16:47:49 | <geekosaur> | ghci doesn't inline (or otherwise optimize) |
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| 20:55:34 | <anon44409248> | :t chr |
| 20:55:35 | <lambdabot> | Int -> Char |
| 20:56:17 | <anon44409248> | My terminal doesn't return the type after importing Data.Char I get a variable not in scope: chr error |
| 20:56:39 | <geekosaur> | import Data.Char |
| 20:56:42 | <geekosaur> | @index chr |
| 20:56:43 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Char, Data.Char |
| 20:56:57 | <geekosaur> | lambdabot has a large import list |
| 20:57:03 | <geekosaur> | @where L.hs |
| 20:57:03 | <lambdabot> | what lambdabot has in scope is at https://silicon.int-e.eu/lambdabot/State/Pristine.hs |
| 20:57:49 | <anon44409248> | what does @index chr do? and what does GHC.Char, Data.Char do? |
| 20:58:08 | <anon44409248> | are those specific function? so I'm not importing everything in the library? |
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| 20:58:48 | <geekosaur> | @index tells you the (standard) modules in which a function is defined |
| 20:58:48 | <lambdabot> | bzzt |
| 20:59:18 | <geekosaur> | modules starting with `GHC` are not generally intended for users to import |
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| 20:59:27 | <anon44409248> | oh ok |
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| 21:00:22 | <anon44409248> | I still get this error: <interactive>:1:1: error: Variable not in scope: chr |
| 21:00:25 | <janus> | what is the right way to import the Generic type class? |
| 21:01:41 | <geekosaur> | if it's really :1:1: thne you still haven't imported Data.Char |
| 21:01:51 | <geekosaur> | type `import Data.Char` at the prompt |
| 21:02:16 | <tomsmeding> | janus: import GHC.Generic ? |
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| 21:03:24 | <anon44409248> | it works when I import it on the prompt but I need it in the file |
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| 21:03:56 | <anon44409248> | is it meant to be import Data.Char ()? |
| 21:04:11 | <geekosaur> | without the (), or put `chr` inside the () |
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| 21:05:35 | <anon44409248> | Alright |
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| 21:11:52 | <anon44409248> | how to I clear a line on the terminal but more than one character at a time? |
| 21:12:03 | <anon44409248> | I can't select all |
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| 21:14:52 | <tomsmeding> | anon44409248: ctrl-e ctrl-u |
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| 21:15:08 | <tomsmeding> | (ctrl-e moves to end of line, ctrl-u deletes from cursor to beginning of line) |
| 21:15:25 | <geekosaur> | depends on what they're doing, no? |
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| 21:15:48 | <janus> | could also use ctrl-a (jmp to begin), ctrl-e (delete from current char) |
| 21:15:52 | <geekosaur> | if they;'re talking about output then we'relooking at an ansi package |
| 21:15:56 | <janus> | ah no, ctrl-k |
| 21:16:46 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: given that they said "I can't select all", sounds like a ghci input line |
| 21:17:02 | <anon44409248> | Also, when I press the up arrow, it appends the history instead of one at a time showing the historical commands |
| 21:17:13 | <anon44409248> | tomsmeding: yeah I'm using ghci input |
| 21:17:42 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: funny, the ansi escape code for erasing a single line is also \e[K |
| 21:17:57 | <geekosaur> | are you on an M1? I think there's a known bug in haskeline |
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| 21:18:08 | <geekosaur> | fixed but not upstreamed yet |
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| 21:18:13 | <anon44409248> | yeah, in the terminal on vscode |
| 21:18:23 | <geekosaur> | oh, vscode. no idea |
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| 21:23:06 | <janus> | is Kazu Yamamoto on IRC? |
| 21:23:46 | <janus> | it's the person about to eat a hotdog on wheels |
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| 22:04:24 | <mason0> | is hackage broken? or just win32 pages on hackage? |
| 22:04:27 | <mason0> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Win32-2.6.2.0/docs/src/System-Win32-Console.html#getConsoleScreenBufferInfo |
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| 22:06:35 | <geekosaur> | hackage can't generate docs for win32 packages because it runs on linux and haddock relies on running ghc |
| 22:07:04 | <mason0> | docs exist. I just can't look at the source. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Win32-2.6.2.0/docs/System-Win32-Console.html#v:setConsoleOutputCP |
| 22:07:28 | <mason0> | maybe reason is the same though? |
| 22:07:53 | <geekosaur> | \same reason, yes |
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| 22:08:16 | <geekosaur> | normally in this case someone generates the docs on a capable system and uploads them to hackage; I guess this didn't happen for Win32 |
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| 22:08:55 | <monochrom> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Win32-2.13.2.0/docs/src/System.Win32.Console.html#getConsoleScreenBufferInfo exists. But its just a foreign import line. |
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| 22:09:21 | <mason0> | thanks.. not sure how you got to that link? |
| 22:09:41 | <monochrom> | By unpinning the "2.6.2.0" version number part. |
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| 22:10:15 | <monochrom> | By starting with the unversioned https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Win32 |
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| 22:47:34 | <lechner> | Hi, why are the docs here not available, please, even though the build log says OK? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/arbtt |
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| 22:49:33 | <monochrom> | Perhaps its an exe-only package? |
| 22:50:25 | <geekosaur> | that's what it looks like |
| 22:50:44 | <geekosaur> | the "docs" here are library documentation, but arbtt is an executable and has nolibraries to document |
| 22:51:13 | <monochrom> | The page still has a readme and a link to a user guide. |
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| 22:59:48 | <lechner> | monochrom geekosaur: thank you! |
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| 23:29:03 | <romesrf> | hello :) |
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| 23:29:26 | <romesrf> | (\case (Left e, l) -> second (l <>); (Right x, l) -> const (Right x, l)) <$> x' r <*> y r |
| 23:29:36 | <romesrf> | if x' r is Right, will y r be run? |
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| 23:32:41 | <Axman6> | yes |
| 23:33:24 | <Axman6> | if you only want to run y r after you know that x' r is Left or Right, you need to use something monadic |
| 23:33:32 | <romesrf> | I see! :) |
| 23:33:52 | <romesrf> | I was wondering why Applicative ExceptT m required Monad m |
| 23:34:00 | <Axman6> | the key difference between applicative and monad is that monads can make executions decisions based on the returned value |
| 23:34:22 | <romesrf> | Axman6: that's some nice insight, thank you |
| 23:34:28 | <Axman6> | :t (<*>> |
| 23:34:30 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 23:34:30 | <lambdabot> | parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) |
| 23:34:32 | <Axman6> | :t (<*>) |
| 23:34:33 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
| 23:34:35 | <Axman6> | :t (=<<) |
| 23:34:37 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b |
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| 23:37:06 | <jackdk> | romesrf, Axman6: A great demonstration is trying to write `condA :: Applicative f => f Bool -> f a -> f a -> f a` and `condM :: Monad m => m Bool -> m a -> m a -> m a`. Then compare `condA (Just True) (Just 3) Nothing` with `condM (Just True) (Just 3) Nothing` |
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| 23:38:53 | <romesrf> | jackdk: :) I'll try it out |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-03-02.