Logs on 2022-03-10 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:56 | <sclv> | i wonder if one can interpret it sort of like the "dartboard" approximation |
| 00:01:25 | <sclv> | like you're choosing points in or out of successive approximations to the circle |
| 00:02:09 | <liz_> | sclv: that's a monte carlo method, which are super cool |
| 00:02:54 | <liz_> | i'm consulting my maths friend (who likes combinatorics) if they've ever seen it before |
| 00:03:28 | <sclv> | i also wonder if you expand out the factorials and rearrange if it looks like another more familiar sequence |
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| 00:19:20 | <dpratt> | welp, I got to that point https://paste.tomsmeding.com/5p9Z62eR |
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| 00:19:49 | <dpratt> | works great, if you only need 40 correct digits computed fairly slowly |
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| 00:21:59 | <liz> | dpratt: how long does it take you to compute 40 digits? |
| 00:23:10 | <dpratt> | "piDigits 1000" takes about a second to compute 40 correct digits followed by (1000 - 40) incorrect digits |
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| 00:24:06 | <dpratt> | maybe an assumption in how I'm trying to limit the computation is not valid |
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| 00:25:37 | <dpratt> | like I'm assuming each successive term is smaller, is that possibly not the case? |
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| 00:30:32 | <liz> | dpratt: when i ran your code, there was a few errors in digits before 40 as well |
| 00:30:46 | <liz> | there seems to be a rounding error in where you're cutting the series off |
| 00:31:36 | <liz> | for example, on my machine, at 11 digits the function returned "3.14159265359" but the actual pi at that point is "3.14159265358" |
| 00:31:59 | <liz> | to solve that at least you could compute one more digit than is needed and do the rounding yorself |
| 00:32:59 | <liz> | i'm not sure about beyond 40 though, it does deviate irreparably for some reason... |
| 00:33:41 | <int-e> | dpratt: the Ord instance only uses 40 digits |
| 00:33:54 | <dpratt> | whaaa? |
| 00:34:03 | <liz> | oh wow lol |
| 00:34:10 | <dpratt> | int-e: if that is so, you are a lifesaver |
| 00:34:12 | <int-e> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/numbers-3000.2.0.2/docs/src/Data.Number.CReal.html#line-25 ...digits is defined further down to be 40. |
| 00:34:21 | <liz> | what's the solution then? would it be a newtype followed by a custom Ord instance? |
| 00:35:20 | <liz> | oh, this code was written by someone at the university of manchester, i was going to do my phd there :o |
| 00:35:22 | <dpratt> | I guess I can manually specify how many terms :( |
| 00:35:42 | <int-e> | Well, nms and dns are integers so you can compare 10^d * dn to nm... |
| 00:36:00 | <int-e> | (and use fromInteger to convert to CReal) |
| 00:37:40 | <int-e> | Or this silly idea: takeWhile (\x -> x * 10^d > 1) terms |
| 00:39:37 | <dpratt> | int-e: thanks for the suggestions |
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| 00:41:46 | <hololeap> | what does `ghc-pkg hide` actually do? |
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| 00:42:50 | <int-e> | hololeap: hide the package from ghci |
| 00:43:30 | <int-e> | for example, `ghc` is hidden by default so you need `ghci -package ghc` to import the `GHC` module from there. |
| 00:44:05 | <int-e> | But hiding packages doesn't affect Cabal or cabal-install. |
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| 00:45:13 | <hololeap> | I just don't see any change in the global package.conf.d/ |
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| 00:51:20 | <int-e> | hololeap: it'll be inside the conf files, non-hidden packages have a field 'exposed: True'; hidden ones lack that |
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| 00:52:11 | <hololeap> | oh, I see |
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| 00:53:35 | <int-e> | omitting the field seems needlessly obscure |
| 00:54:22 | <int-e> | (I knew I was looking for a flag so I looked at ghc-$VERSION.conf and didn't find it... sigh.) |
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| 00:55:15 | <int-e> | I guess you could say it was well hidden. |
| 00:55:21 | <hololeap> | ha |
| 00:55:42 | <hololeap> | the docs even say that it sets the 'exposed' flag to 'False' |
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| 01:25:23 | <dpratt> | interestingly, if I use Integer (vs CReal) for e.g. computing the numerators/denominators, it computes dramatically faster |
| 01:26:12 | <dpratt> | I mean computing the numerators and denominators separately, to be clear |
| 01:26:22 | <int-e> | dpratt: makes sense to me |
| 01:27:02 | <int-e> | (AIUI, CReal doesn't have any special treatment for integers or other numbers that are represented exactly.) |
| 01:27:11 | <dpratt> | also, I now have 1K correct digits, thanks int-e et al |
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| 01:38:24 | <dpratt> | ok, real stupid noob question: if I have e.g. "src/Main.hs" and "src/Foo.hs" what should the .cabal project look like? -- I tried "other-modules: Foo" which seemed like it was working until I tried to build |
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| 01:39:59 | <int-e> | other-modules: should be fine, hs-source-dirs: is relevant too |
| 01:40:29 | <int-e> | an actual cabal file and error message would probably help |
| 01:40:32 | <int-e> | @where paste |
| 01:40:33 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 01:42:50 | <dpratt> | int-e: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/i9y9LQZk -- the build failure appears due to "Setup: can't find source for Pi in src, dist/build/bms-pi/autogen,..." |
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| 01:45:27 | <int-e> | dpratt: hmm. It really should pick up src/Pi.hs if that exists. |
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| 01:48:49 | <dpratt> | int-e: it does; I've got a setup involving nix, which is cool and all but there is some magic that I don't understand enough yet |
| 01:52:46 | <dpratt> | got it to build another way; gotta figure out a bit more about this magic |
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| 02:07:34 | <slack1256> | Can I use wreq to connect to an http/2 server? |
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| 02:21:21 | <Axman6> | hmm,unless things have changed, I don't think we have http/2 client support, but I could be completely wrong, Kazu is pretty amazing |
| 02:22:11 | <Axman6> | though, https://hackage.haskell.org/package/http2-3.0.3/docs/Network-HTTP2-Client.html exists, so there may be hope? |
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| 02:32:22 | <slack1256> | Yeah, kazu is GOAT . I had not seen that module. |
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| 02:37:09 | <slack1256> | There is also http2-client. The master branch has bound to older versions of kazu's http2. But there is a branch from avieth with updated ones. |
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| 08:45:24 | <gensyst> | Currently I find myself going to hackage.org to search docs. How to do this directly from within vscode/HLS? |
| 08:47:42 | <dminuoso> | There is a hls-haddock-comments-plugin |
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| 09:14:48 | <gensyst> | dminuoso, are you using it? Do you mean "Haskell Spotlight" extension? |
| 09:14:55 | <gensyst> | (that one seems to require online access?) |
| 09:15:25 | <dminuoso> | No I dont |
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| 09:16:34 | <merijn> | So, cabal can/should build offline docs for all your dependencies, but as of v2-build the location on disk can be kinda hard to discover... |
| 09:16:52 | <merijn> | Hoogle can also build a database of documentation you can query (with various editor plugins) |
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| 09:25:07 | <gensyst> | Ok, but how to get this hls-haddock-comments-plugin working in vscode? |
| 09:25:20 | <gensyst> | I already have Haskell extension. |
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| 10:08:03 | <gensyst> | dminuoso, "cabal install --lib hls-haddock-comments-plugin" ran through, but i have no idea where it installed this lib and how to activate it in vscode (where I see no differences). |
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| 10:09:48 | <dminuoso> | HLS is like latex to me. I have absolutely no clue how to set it up, but somehow I have this bunch of bizarre nix, hie-bios and emacs configuration that I glued together with ducktape, and it works. |
| 10:09:57 | <dminuoso> | Dont ask me how or why |
| 10:10:28 | <gensyst> | heh |
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| 10:17:13 | <gensyst> | well, thanks anyway |
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| 10:46:23 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: you got HLS working for emacs? |
| 10:46:34 | <kuribas> | I gave up long time ago. |
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| 10:46:52 | <kuribas> | I couldn't even make it work with my project on vscode. |
| 10:47:19 | <dminuoso> | Yes |
| 10:47:38 | <dminuoso> | It's really not that complex |
| 10:48:13 | <dminuoso> | It's mostly just `(require 'lsp)` and `(add-hook 'haskell-mode-hook #'lsp)` |
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| 10:48:34 | <dminuoso> | I also load lsp-ui after lsp-mode with use-package since I use lsp-ui |
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| 10:52:32 | <kuribas> | It kind of worked, but was very clumsy. |
| 10:52:42 | <kuribas> | not user friendly at all. |
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| 10:59:29 | <kuribas> | in vscode it's ok, when it works. |
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| 12:31:10 | <romesrf> | o/ |
| 12:31:29 | <geekosaur> | ohai |
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| 12:33:21 | <romesrf> | おはよ :D |
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| 13:54:17 | <kuribas`> | How do I return a strict int? |
| 13:54:20 | <kuribas`> | or unboxed int? |
| 13:54:27 | <kuribas`> | I don't want an extra boxing... |
| 13:55:06 | <geekosaur> | turn on MagicHash, then a value like 1# is an unboxed Int |
| 13:55:12 | <geekosaur> | @src Int |
| 13:55:12 | <lambdabot> | data Int = I# Int# |
| 13:55:20 | <geekosaur> | :t 1# |
| 13:55:21 | <merijn> | kuribas`: You just return it? :) |
| 13:55:21 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Prim.Int# |
| 13:55:30 | <kuribas`> | Can I add them? |
| 13:55:42 | <geekosaur> | >< 1# +# 2+ |
| 13:55:47 | <geekosaur> | > 1# +# 2+ |
| 13:55:48 | <merijn> | kuribas`: Note that you run into trouble, because unboxed ints can't unify with arbitrary type variables |
| 13:55:48 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:9: error: |
| 13:55:48 | <lambdabot> | parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) |
| 13:56:00 | <geekosaur> | > 1# +# 2# |
| 13:56:00 | <merijn> | % :seti -XMagicHash |
| 13:56:01 | <yahb> | merijn: |
| 13:56:02 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:56:02 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: |
| 13:56:02 | <lambdabot> | (+#) :: GHC.Prim.Int# -> GHC.Prim.Int# -> t |
| 13:56:10 | <merijn> | % 1# +# 2# |
| 13:56:10 | <yahb> | merijn: ; <interactive>:41:1: error:; * Couldn't match a lifted type with an unlifted type; When matching types; a0 :: *; Int# :: TYPE 'GHC.Exts.IntRep; * In the first argument of `print', namely `it'; In a stmt of an interactive GHCi command: print it |
| 13:56:39 | <ski> | % I# (1# +# 2#) |
| 13:56:39 | <merijn> | % I# (1# +# 2#) |
| 13:56:39 | <yahb> | ski: 3 |
| 13:56:39 | <yahb> | merijn: 3 |
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| 13:57:25 | <merijn> | I probably wouldn't manually unpack Int, very annoying to work with |
| 13:57:29 | <geekosaur> | all this said, it's usually better to let ghc do the unboxing, helping it along woth strictness annotations as needed |
| 13:57:36 | <merijn> | probably better of with appropriate strictness/UNBOX pragma |
| 13:57:46 | <kuribas`> | Can I tag an output as strict? |
| 13:57:59 | <kuribas`> | like "idx :: Proxy a -> !Int" ? |
| 13:58:16 | <merijn> | kuribas`: No, but that also seems pointless |
| 13:58:26 | <kuribas`> | Just to avoid the indirection... |
| 13:58:28 | <merijn> | kuribas`: Since idx would only be evaluated when the Int is gonna be used |
| 13:58:55 | <kuribas`> | My idea is that it would be inlined, then can be evaluated to a constant. |
| 13:59:11 | <kuribas`> | But the lazy boxing is preventing the constant. |
| 13:59:38 | <geekosaur> | ghc doesn't do constant folding, sadly |
| 14:00:01 | <kuribas`> | right. |
| 14:00:08 | <kuribas`> | I could resort to Template Haskell. |
| 14:00:15 | <kuribas`> | It would be more ugly, but feasible. |
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| 14:04:09 | <kuribas`> | weird it doesn't do such an obvious optimization. |
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| 14:06:13 | <geekosaur> | I think constant folding is complicated by the fact that it can't "see through" Num instances to tell when it can get away with being strict |
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| 14:25:06 | <dpratt> | one general problem I'm having using Nix for Haskell dev is that it is neither Haskell nor Nix and therefore I often don't know where to go with my questions |
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| 14:37:44 | <o1lo0lol1o[m]> | If I have a handfull of .cabal files that I cannot change, and one that I can change, is there any `cabal-plan` magic I can do to see the shortest diff to getting working bounds for the whole set? |
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| 15:13:23 | <kuribas`> | geekosaur: I am fine with Ints... |
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| 15:16:02 | <dminuoso> | dpratt: You generally go to ~/git/github/nixpkgs with all your nix problems. |
| 15:16:35 | <dminuoso> | If you feel a bit alone, emacs will keep you company |
| 15:17:05 | <exarkun> | M-x doctor |
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| 15:23:18 | <Henson> | is there a way to replay a particular test in QuickCheck? I notice there's a "replay" record in the args type which takes a Maybe that contains the random generator and a size, but there doesn't appear to be any way to construct the random generator. |
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| 15:32:24 | <dpratt> | dminuoso: gtk, thanks :D |
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| 15:36:00 | <Henson> | ok, I figured it out. The replay record takes a type of Maybe (QCGen, Int), and QCGen has a show and read instance. So all I have to do is copy the text "SMGen 1260792181133215248 208396700724833247" from the failing case's usedSeed value, and then use the read function to turn that into the appropriate QCGen to replay the failing test, as well as provide the proper usedSize value. |
| 15:36:39 | Henson | high-fives himself |
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| 15:49:20 | <dpratt> | Henson: are you doing this directly from code? looks like you could just construct the SMGen value with e.g. "seedSMGen 1260792181133215248 208396700724833247" |
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| 15:51:28 | <jmorris> | hi |
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| 15:52:35 | <Henson> | dpratt: yes, you're right. I thought I looked last night for SMGen and couldn't find it, but I see that it's in the System.Random.SplitMix library. But the replay needs a QCGen, and I don't see a way of converting the SMGen into a QCGen. |
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| 15:52:46 | <Henson> | jmorris: hi! |
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| 15:55:14 | <jmorris> | Henson do you think learning Haskell by writing a program is a reasonable way to learn it? I was thinking of building a Kubernetes YAML linter in Haskell. I use Kubernetes daily and want to learn Haskell. Seems like a good way to learn. But maybe that's too ambitious of me.. |
| 15:56:01 | <infandum> | I think too many file handles are being opened with "mapM readFile xs", what is the appropriate way to prevent this issue? I see online to use unsafeInterleaveIO, but I want to avoid anything unsafe. |
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| 15:58:49 | <Henson> | jmorris: that's a good question. Because Haskell is very different than more common imperative languages, I found the learning curve to be pretty steep. Trying to tackle a big project first might be frustrating and discouraging. You could certainly give it a shot, but I would suggest that if you start feeling frustrated or lost to take a step back and focus on understanding the smaller... |
| 15:59:52 | <Henson> | jmorris: segments of your larger project, like JSON and then YAML parsing (in Haskell the YAML parser is based on the Aeson JSON parser), and then Text handling, and other things, which could be tackled and made into small projects in isolation. Then once you've figured out the "Haskell Way" of doing those sub components, piece it together to tackle the big project. |
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| 16:01:07 | <geekosaur> | infandum, note that unless you are using strict BytString version of readFile, it's using unsafeInterleaveIO |
| 16:02:26 | <infandum> | geekosaur: Looks like Data.ByteString.Lazy.Char8 |
| 16:02:54 | <infandum> | which is fed to streaming cassava |
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| 16:03:04 | <geekosaur> | so it will be chunk-lazy but iirc that's still unsafeInterleaveIO |
| 16:03:11 | <infandum> | (Data.Csv.Streaming) |
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| 16:03:57 | <infandum> | So mapM would not result in all opened handles before closing? They would only open and close one at a time? |
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| 16:05:19 | <jmorris> | Henson: this is a very good suggestion. Thank you. Especially the call out w.r.t. the Aeson JSON parser. I'll try learning the sub-components as smaller individual components as you suggested. Might be my best bet. Coming from a Go background, this should be interesting (: |
| 16:07:20 | <Henson> | jmorris: I found "Learn You A Haskell For Great Good" to be very helpful in getting started. "Real World Haskell" by O'Reilly is also good, but somewhat dated now. It contains some examples of JSON parsing as well as details on Monad Transformers that aren't covered in "Learn You A Haskell" |
| 16:09:28 | <Henson> | jmorris: Haskell is pretty much a functional-only language, so if you're coming from an imperative background you'll need to develop or sharpen your skills of being able to understand how to solve problems with recusive functions and the map/filter/fold list processing tools. |
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| 16:09:32 | <geekosaur> | infandum, no, it opens all and only closes them when the apparent ByteString is gc-d |
| 16:09:51 | <geekosaur> | it's not as deterministic as explicitly closing a file |
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| 16:10:37 | <geekosaur> | (with unsafeInterleaveIO the "ByteString" returned is secretly lazily reading the file as needed to extend itself) |
| 16:10:49 | <infandum> | geekosaur: Ah, so I should be doing one at a time then. The solution I was thinking was just using something like Control.Foldl, is it that simple? |
| 16:11:51 | <infandum> | like, the parser returns a list of lines, so Fold.foldM (Fold.premapM parseFile (Fold.generalize Fold.mconcat)) xs |
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| 16:12:20 | <infandum> | Or would that not deeply evaluate, so every handle will still be open at once |
| 16:12:32 | <geekosaur> | you may need to do some forcing to ensure things are performed and gc-d in a timely manner |
| 16:12:52 | <infandum> | what is the canonical way to do that? |
| 16:13:09 | <infandum> | "try"? Bang patterns? |
| 16:13:22 | <geekosaur> | bang patterns. or switch to strict ByteStrings |
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| 16:14:19 | <infandum> | Unfortunately CSV streaming uses lazy, so I don't think I can do the latter |
| 16:15:16 | <infandum> | So basically, contents <- lazy reading; !rows <- streaming csv parsing; return rows ? |
| 16:15:25 | <geekosaur> | something likethat, yes |
| 16:15:59 | <infandum> | and the bang pattern wouldn't be like spine strict or anything like that, but actually have the entire list of strings? |
| 16:16:23 | <infandum> | Ugh, it's actually a map, not list of strings |
| 16:16:40 | <infandum> | a strict map, which I believe means strict in spine |
| 16:16:52 | <geekosaur> | maps are always spine strict |
| 16:17:27 | <geekosaur> | strict map should be value strict… but note that there's only one Map type, it's the *operations* that are strict vs. lazy |
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| 16:18:10 | <geekosaur> | (Maps have to be spine strict, it has to compare keys to know where to insert elements into the Map) |
| 16:19:18 | <infandum> | Ah, then I bet cassava is using lazy map |
| 16:19:22 | <infandum> | operations |
| 16:19:35 | <maerwald> | you should use tapioca |
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| 17:36:03 | <feetwind> | hi all. is there a way to tell ghci what package name a local module/hs file is from? basically, i have two packages with two modules called "Orphans". rather than rename them. i develop just with good old 'ghci -ipkg1/src -ipkg2/src' which works great except in this case where there are two modules with the same name, as from ghci's perspective they're basically in the same pkg |
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| 17:37:03 | <feetwind> | basically hoping to be able to do like, :set -packagename=foo; :load foo/src/Foo.hs; :set -packagename=bar; :load bar/src/Bar.hs |
| 17:37:48 | <feetwind> | hmmmm that doesnt really make sense actually, loading bar will just reload foo lol |
| 17:38:16 | <feetwind> | anyway, curious about suggestions, for now just gonna rename em |
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| 17:39:07 | <geekosaur> | renaming is almost certainly best |
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| 17:39:43 | <geekosaur> | I don't know if ghci's import supports the PackageNames extension but you'd still have to rename them (using `as`) even then |
| 17:40:27 | <geekosaur> | import "packageA" Orphans; import qualified "packageB" Orphans as OtherOrphans |
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| 18:15:13 | <haskelln00b> | :t 4 . 4 |
| 18:15:14 | <haskelln00b> | 4 . 4 :: (Num (b -> c), Num (a -> b)) => a -> c |
| 18:15:14 | <lambdabot> | (Num (b -> c), Num (a -> b)) => a -> c |
| 18:15:14 | <haskelln00b> | confused... |
| 18:19:19 | <pavonia> | :t 4 |
| 18:19:20 | <lambdabot> | Num p => p |
| 18:19:20 | <dpratt> | haskelln00b: the "." operator composes two functions, but you've supplied two numeric values |
| 18:19:37 | <haskelln00b> | yeah - I expected that to be an error |
| 18:19:45 | <haskelln00b> | but it has a result which is a function? |
| 18:19:57 | <dpratt> | haskelln00b: Haskell is optimistic that you will be able to come up with a type that is both a function and also is numeric |
| 18:20:13 | <liz_> | haskelln00b: notice how 4 can be interpreted as any instance of Num |
| 18:20:40 | <liz_> | like what dpratt said, haskell can compose 4 with 4, so long as 4 can be interpreted as some Num instance of a function |
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| 18:21:28 | <haskelln00b> | hmm - but, the result isn't a Num instance, for example; isn't that surprising? |
| 18:22:03 | <liz_> | it's interesting that a -> c is not a Num instance in itself, but it fits with the definition of 4 |
| 18:22:09 | <liz_> | since 4 is just Num a => a |
| 18:22:32 | <liz_> | i've never thought about 4 . 4 before, it's interesting :o |
| 18:22:39 | <liz_> | :t 3.2 . 4.5 |
| 18:22:40 | <lambdabot> | (Fractional (b -> c), Fractional (a -> b)) => a -> c |
| 18:22:51 | <liz_> | you can do similar stuff with other "literals" like that too it seems |
| 18:23:18 | <geekosaur> | there's a Num instance for functions somewhere, it lets you write things like sin^2 + cos^2 |
| 18:23:19 | <haskelln00b> | yeah, similarly surprising to me... |
| 18:23:22 | <pavonia> | :t "foo" . "bar" |
| 18:23:23 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 18:23:23 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘b0 -> c’ with actual type ‘[Char]’ |
| 18:23:23 | <lambdabot> | • In the first argument of ‘(.)’, namely ‘"foo"’ |
| 18:23:31 | → | vysn joins (~vysn@user/vysn) |
| 18:23:36 | <liz_> | :t "foo" |
| 18:23:37 | <lambdabot> | [Char] |
| 18:23:49 | <geekosaur> | @let {-# LANGUAGE OverloadedStrings #-} |
| 18:23:50 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
| 18:23:54 | <geekosaur> | :t"foo" |
| 18:23:58 | <geekosaur> | :t "foo" |
| 18:23:59 | <lambdabot> | [Char] |
| 18:24:14 | <geekosaur> | hm |
| 18:24:15 | <liz_> | lambdabot is very cool :) |
| 18:24:56 | <geekosaur> | % :t "foo" |
| 18:24:56 | <yahb> | geekosaur: IsString p => p |
| 18:25:07 | <geekosaur> | not sure why it doesn't work in lambdabot |
| 18:25:23 | <geekosaur> | % :t "foo" . "bar" |
| 18:25:23 | <yahb> | geekosaur: (IsString (b -> c), IsString (a -> b)) => a -> c |
| 18:26:13 | <haskelln00b> | :t (\x->4) |
| 18:26:14 | <lambdabot> | Num p1 => p2 -> p1 |
| 18:26:27 | <haskelln00b> | :t 4.(\x->4) |
| 18:26:28 | <lambdabot> | (Num b, Num (b -> c)) => a -> c |
| 18:26:35 | <haskelln00b> | :t (\x->4).4 |
| 18:26:36 | <lambdabot> | (Num c, Num (a -> b)) => a -> c |
| 18:27:07 | <haskelln00b> | :t (\x->4).(\x->4) |
| 18:27:08 | <lambdabot> | Num c => a -> c |
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| 18:29:57 | <dpratt> | is there anything interesting the new bot on the block can do that lambdabot cannot? |
| 18:29:59 | <geekosaur> | @let instance Num a => Num (b -> a) where (+) = liftA2 (+); (-) = liftA2 (-); (*) = liftA2 (*); negate = fmap negate; abs = fmap abs; signum = fmap signum; fromInteger = pure . fromInteger |
| 18:30:01 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
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| 18:30:14 | <geekosaur> | yahb is actual ghci in a sandbox; lambdabot only does expressions |
| 18:30:30 | <dpratt> | oh, that's interesting |
| 18:30:35 | <geekosaur> | also yahb is ghc 9.0, lambdabot is 8.10.7 iirc |
| 18:30:50 | <geekosaur> | :t sin^2 + cos^2 |
| 18:30:51 | <lambdabot> | Floating a => a -> a |
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| 18:31:14 | <geekosaur> | there's your Num instance for functions |
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| 18:31:58 | <fockerized> | are typefamily and GADT similar and solve similar problems? |
| 18:32:04 | <geekosaur> | > (4 . 4) 1 |
| 18:32:04 | <dpratt> | I feel like I've seen this sort of trick before in something to do with derivatives |
| 18:32:06 | <lambdabot> | 4 |
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| 18:32:40 | <haskelln00b> | geekosaur thanks that will take me some time to unpack ... :) |
| 18:32:44 | <liz_> | > (sin^2 + cos^2) 3 |
| 18:32:45 | <lambdabot> | 0.9999999999999999 |
| 18:32:54 | <liz_> | well that's not correct >:o |
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| 18:34:08 | <geekosaur> | yahb also has a larger set of packages available, although it's still limited |
| 18:34:29 | <pavonia> | > succ^10 $ 0 |
| 18:34:30 | <lambdabot> | 1 |
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| 18:35:31 | <liz_> | > succ . succ $ 0 |
| 18:35:33 | <lambdabot> | 2 |
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| 18:36:01 | <geekosaur> | > succ^10 $ 1 |
| 18:36:03 | <lambdabot> | 1024 |
| 18:36:17 | <liz_> | oh it's (^10) . succ |
| 18:36:39 | <liz_> | i thought it was succ . succ . ... . succ |
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| 18:38:34 | <pavonia> | Yeah, I've never noticed that sin^2 is ambiguous |
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| 18:39:17 | <liz_> | noob question, is there a function in base that allows one to apply a function n times? |
| 18:39:38 | <pavonia> | :t iterate |
| 18:39:39 | <lambdabot> | (a -> a) -> a -> [a] |
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| 18:39:47 | <liz_> | ah thank you |
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| 18:39:59 | <pavonia> | That's not it |
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| 18:41:40 | <liz_> | > last . (take 5) . (iterate succ) 0 |
| 18:41:41 | <pavonia> | Hhm, it seems that's still the closest one |
| 18:41:42 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 18:41:42 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘a -> [c]’ with actual type ‘[a0]’ |
| 18:41:42 | <lambdabot> | • Possible cause: ‘iterate’ is applied to too many arguments |
| 18:41:49 | <liz_> | oh whoops |
| 18:41:50 | <geekosaur> | fockerized, I would say no. type families are type level functions; GADTs are just a different way to write ADTs, with some helpful features |
| 18:41:57 | <liz_> | > last . (take 5) . (iterate succ) $ 0 |
| 18:41:59 | <lambdabot> | 4 |
| 18:42:25 | <liz_> | > (!!5) . (iterate succ) $ 0 |
| 18:42:27 | <lambdabot> | 5 |
| 18:42:29 | <liz_> | ah there we go |
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| 18:51:57 | <pavonia> | % let f ^. n = (!! n) . iterate f |
| 18:51:57 | <yahb> | pavonia: |
| 18:52:30 | <pavonia> | > (sin^.2 + cos^.2) 3 |
| 18:52:31 | <lambdabot> | 4 |
| 18:53:39 | <pavonia> | :t (^.) |
| 18:53:40 | <lambdabot> | s -> Getting a s a -> a |
| 18:53:54 | <geekosaur> | % :t (^.) |
| 18:53:54 | <yahb> | geekosaur: (c -> c) -> Int -> c -> c |
| 18:54:04 | <pavonia> | Oh, bot confusion |
| 18:54:12 | <geekosaur> | I keep doing that too |
| 18:54:21 | <monochrom> | You may like iterate' instead of iterate for some use cases. |
| 18:54:31 | <liz_> | :t iterate' |
| 18:54:32 | <lambdabot> | (a -> a) -> a -> [a] |
| 18:54:58 | <liz_> | oh it's just iterate but strict? |
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| 18:55:09 | <monochrom> | Yes, it is less lazy in the elements. |
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| 19:16:31 | <fockerized> | geekosaur: i see |
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| 19:29:59 | <haskelln00b> | :t abs |
| 19:30:00 | <lambdabot> | Num a => a -> a |
| 19:30:03 | <haskelln00b> | :t abs + abs |
| 19:30:05 | <lambdabot> | Num a => a -> a |
| 19:30:16 | <haskelln00b> | (abs + abs) 2 |
| 19:30:34 | <geekosaur> | > (abs + abs) 2 |
| 19:30:36 | <lambdabot> | 4 |
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| 19:31:30 | <haskelln00b> | x = abs + abs |
| 19:31:39 | <haskelln00b> | x 2 |
| 19:31:41 | <haskelln00b> | > x 2 |
| 19:31:43 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 19:31:43 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘t0 -> t’ with actual type ‘Expr’ |
| 19:31:43 | <lambdabot> | • The function ‘x’ is applied to one argument, |
| 19:31:49 | <haskelln00b> | > x = abs + abs |
| 19:31:51 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:3: error: parse error on input ‘=’ |
| 19:32:10 | <geekosaur> | lambdabot can't do assignments that way |
| 19:32:30 | <geekosaur> | and assigning single letter names will break simple-reflect, so is not recommended |
| 19:32:51 | <geekosaur> | % instance Num a => Num (b -> a) where (+) = liftA2 (+); (-) = liftA2 (-); (*) = liftA2 (*); negate = fmap negate; abs = fmap abs; signum = fmap signum; fromInteger = pure . fromInteger |
| 19:32:52 | <yahb> | geekosaur: |
| 19:33:01 | <geekosaur> | % x = abs + abs |
| 19:33:01 | <yahb> | geekosaur: |
| 19:33:07 | <geekosaur> | % x 2 |
| 19:33:08 | <yahb> | geekosaur: 4 |
| 19:33:21 | <tomsmeding> | I'm reading the Trees that Grow paper from 2017, and I'm wondering why they use Void instead of () as a type for fields where they don't want to store any data (throughout the paper, but first on page 6). Was there a good reason? (paper link: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2016/11/trees-that-grow.pdf ) |
| 19:33:22 | <geekosaur> | % :t x |
| 19:33:23 | <yahb> | geekosaur: Num a => a -> a |
| 19:33:37 | <haskelln00b> | ic thx |
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| 19:50:23 | <geekosaur> | % :q |
| 19:50:23 | <yahb> | geekosaur: |
| 19:50:26 | <geekosaur> | @undef |
| 19:50:26 | <lambdabot> | Undefined. |
| 19:54:41 | <hololeap> | hm, Void -> a should be isomorphic to (), no? a^0 |
| 19:55:53 | <hololeap> | ∃ a |
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| 20:10:23 | <liz_> | Void is a type that explicitly has no values; () is a type with precisely one value, the unit () |
| 20:10:55 | hololeap | nods |
| 20:12:57 | <liz_> | Void -> a is a function that one can't call, because you can't provide it with the Void value it requires; () acts as the trivial monoid in effect |
| 20:13:02 | <liz_> | i think anyway, i'm not 100% sure |
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| 20:16:05 | <hololeap> | I'm vague on the terminology, but there's something about functions relating to exponentials, such that (Bool -> Int) could be represented as a lookup table with (Int ^ Bool) number of possibilities |
| 20:17:06 | <hololeap> | and since Void is an empty set, (Void -> a) would become (a ^ 0) -- which solves to 1 or the singleton set () |
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| 20:20:47 | <tomsmeding> | hololeap: A -> B can be seen as B^A indeed, and indeed there's precisely one function Void -> a, namely the empty function \x -> case x of {} |
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| 20:22:29 | <tomsmeding> | thing is, in the paper they have this idea that they define a data type like 'data Exp x = Lam (XLam x) Name (Exp x) | Var (XVar x) Name | App (XApp x) (Exp x) (Exp x)', with type families XLam, XVar and XApp that you can instantiate for various tag types to extend your expression tree with extra fields for different parts in a compiler pipeline |
| 20:23:00 | <tomsmeding> | and if you want the non-augmented expression type, what they do is 'type instance XLam NonAugmented = Void' |
| 20:23:28 | <tomsmeding> | but that makes no sense to me, because then the only thing you can put in that extension field is a bottom, which to me would signal that you're not supposed to use this constructor at all |
| 20:23:48 | <tomsmeding> | if they would instead use (), then that would signal "it's fine, nothing here, move along" |
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| 20:24:19 | <tomsmeding> | bottoms are not supposed to be an expected occurrence in expression tree data types |
| 20:24:55 | <liz_> | hololeap: i think i'm approaching this from the classical abstract algebra perspective too much, but i think the non-existence of multiplication for Void wouldn't allow it to make a monoid from (a ^ 0) |
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| 20:26:07 | <tomsmeding> | liz_: Void has zero elements, () has one element, 'Void -> a' has one element (namely \x -> case x of {}) and is hence in bijection with () |
| 20:26:38 | <liz_> | oh, i see what you mean now! that's interesting... |
| 20:27:05 | <tomsmeding> | if #T is the number of elements in a type T, then #(A -> B) = #B ^ #A |
| 20:27:19 | <tomsmeding> | (assuming all relevant types are finite) |
| 20:27:59 | liz_ | is now known as liz |
| 20:28:17 | <tomsmeding> | exponentials (A -> B) fit nicely with products (A,B) and sums (Either A B) |
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| 20:29:19 | <tomsmeding> | and of course there is also negation (A -> Void), but unfortunately 'Either A (A -> Void)' is isomorphic to A, not to Void :p |
| 20:29:44 | <tomsmeding> | um, well, if A is nonempty, that is |
| 20:30:11 | <tomsmeding> | if A is itself empty, then Either A (A -> Void) is isomorphic to Void -> Void, which is 0 ^ 0, so ? |
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| 20:31:04 | <tomsmeding> | in Haskell I guess 0 ^ 0 = 1 because |
| 20:31:11 | <tomsmeding> | :t absurd :: Void -> Void |
| 20:31:12 | <lambdabot> | Void -> Void |
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| 20:38:02 | <dpratt> | that's unsatisfying; perhaps Haskell should crib from Agda https://agda.readthedocs.io/en/v2.5.2/language/function-definitions.html#absurd-patterns |
| 20:38:30 | <tomsmeding> | yes I've always wanted that since I learned some Agda |
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| 20:59:23 | <monochrom> | EmptyCase allows a nice syntax for a :: Void -> t; a x = case x of; |
| 21:00:50 | <tomsmeding> | TIL you don't need {} |
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| 21:47:20 | <dibblego> | FWIW, I went down the rabbit hole on Trees That Grow and came to the same conclusion as tomsmeding |
| 21:47:56 | <tomsmeding> | dibblego: I mean, the ()/Void choice is not really the crux of the idea I guess, though it's good to hear I'm not the only one :p |
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| 21:49:18 | <dibblego> | right, I also was able to change it to get what I think is a more meaningful result |
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| 21:52:30 | <monochrom> | tomsmeding: Oops, I didn't test my code, {} is still needed, heh. |
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| 21:53:18 | <monochrom> | EmptyCase is not exactly absurd pattern, but still, close enough as far as Haskell being non-dependent is concerned. |
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| 22:01:29 | <tomsmeding> | :t \x -> case x of |
| 22:01:30 | <lambdabot> | p1 -> p2 |
| 22:03:09 | <monochrom> | Oh! So my error was adding ; without {} |
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| 22:03:41 | <geekosaur> | makes sense, ; separates patterns |
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| 22:03:55 | <tomsmeding> | the ; gets parsed as belonging to the case, but not making sense there? |
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| 22:04:19 | <geekosaur> | I don't think it can belong to the case |
| 22:04:20 | <monochrom> | Yeah manual ; turns off layout parsing and so explicit {} is also called for. |
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| 22:04:27 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 22:04:43 | <geekosaur> | unless it comes after a pattern -> exp |
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| 22:08:46 | <byorgey> | tomsmeding, dibblego: ditto re: TTG and Void. I always use () instead of Void. And sometimes Void actually is appropriate when you want to say "this constructor cannot happen", e.g. after a desugaring pass or something like that |
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| 22:09:36 | <byorgey> | https://github.com/disco-lang/disco/blob/master/src/Disco/AST/Desugared.hs#L75-L101 is an example from some of my code |
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| 22:17:08 | <hololeap> | I've noted that `type Sink i = ConduitT i Void` (from conduit) |
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| 22:19:12 | <hololeap> | but I guess that it's appropriate there because the conduit pipeline is driven by downstream, so a sink would need to have Void for downstream ... ? |
| 22:20:38 | <hololeap> | because if the output type was () downstream could still call `await` |
| 22:21:01 | <hololeap> | yeah that makes sense |
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| 22:31:07 | <romesrf> | byorgey: I quite like how Void makes it so that you don't need to pattern match |
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| 22:56:15 | <byorgey> | romesrf: yeah, unfortunately, I don't think the coverage checker is quite smart enough to realize that you don't need to pattern match on a constructor that contains a Void (also because Void actually does have bottom as an inhabitant in Haskell). |
| 22:59:32 | <romesrf> | byorgey: Oh, I think it already happens in GHC >= 9.0 |
| 22:59:39 | <romesrf> | at least I'm writing some code like this: |
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| 23:00:51 | <romesrf> | ppr (XTypedBracket b) = case ghcPass @p of |
| 23:00:53 | <romesrf> | #if __GLASGOW_HASKELL__ <= 900 |
| 23:00:55 | <romesrf> | GhcPs -> dataConCantHappen b |
| 23:00:57 | <romesrf> | GhcRn -> dataConCantHappen b |
| 23:00:59 | <romesrf> | #endif |
| 23:01:01 | <romesrf> | GhcTc | (TExpBr _ e) <- b -> thTyBrackets (ppr e) |
| 23:01:29 | <romesrf> | in which dataConCantHappen is semantically equivalent to absurd |
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| 23:02:42 | <romesrf> | perhaps I'm mixing up things... I'll try a minimal example some other time |
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| 23:03:37 | <romesrf> | this one definitely isn't minimal =P |
| 23:07:01 | <romesrf> | because if I have those case branches when compiling GHC >= 900, I get an "overlapping pattern" warning |
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| 23:07:28 | <romesrf> | or "unused pattern" |
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