Logs on 2022-03-11 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:13:41 | <Axman6> | Hmm, I hadn't been keeping up with Unison, but it looks like it's come a long way since I last looked! I'll have to give it a closer look. https://www.unison-lang.org/blog/unison_2021-year-in-review/ has a lot of interesting stuff, not least of which is that they're now using "the Haskell VM" for its runtime, which gives it access to GHC's concurrency and STM stuff. very cool |
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| 00:24:55 | <jackdk> | Axman6: thanks for teh link. Those are some pretty massive improvements, and Unison has thought hard and long about a lot of important things |
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| 00:55:37 | <Axman6> | huh, I was looking at the Unison docs, and I couldn't figure out why they felt to seird - turns out that each definition you looks at gets pushed onto a stack in your browser window, so things you looked at to get to where youy are are right there - this is awesome! |
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| 00:58:45 | <geekosaur> | now imagine wikipedia with that tech |
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| 01:00:28 | <Axman6> | that'd be pretty cool - though the items are much smaller; I guess if you did it on the level or parageraphs or sections or something itmight work |
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| 01:43:20 | <sm> | cool link. how does an experimental new programming language have 10 full time developers ? |
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| 01:51:11 | <exarkun> | I guess https://www.unison-lang.org/blog/benefit-corp-report/ explains how ("investors") |
| 01:51:50 | <exarkun> | hmm hq in my old backyard... |
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| 02:14:11 | <sm> | +1, thanks |
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| 04:06:10 | <zzz> | what's the "fixity" of :: ? |
| 04:06:48 | <zzz> | if that makes sense |
| 04:07:07 | <Axman6> | % :info (::) |
| 04:07:07 | <yahb> | Axman6: ; <interactive>:1:2: error: parse error on input `::' |
| 04:07:10 | <Axman6> | :( |
| 04:07:35 | <Axman6> | I don't think it does make sense |
| 04:08:31 | <monochrom> | It's a reserved word, so :info doesn't have it. You can treat it as very low precedence. |
| 04:08:53 | <janus> | can any expression have :: after it? |
| 04:08:56 | <Axman6> | low precedence, v. high importance |
| 04:09:07 | <monochrom> | Yes. |
| 04:09:17 | <zzz> | > length "test" :: [Char] |
| 04:09:18 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 04:09:18 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[Char]’ with actual type ‘Int’ |
| 04:09:19 | <lambdabot> | • In the expression: length "test" :: [Char] |
| 04:09:24 | <zzz> | > length $ "test" :: [Char] |
| 04:09:25 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 04:09:25 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘[Char]’ with actual type ‘Int’ |
| 04:09:25 | <lambdabot> | • In the expression: length $ "test" :: [Char] |
| 04:09:31 | <monochrom> | Lower than $ |
| 04:09:34 | <zzz> | nice |
| 04:09:58 | <monochrom> | It's <humongous expr> :: <type> in the grammar. |
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| 04:19:04 | <hololeap> | > \x -> replicate x $ "abcd" :: Int -> String |
| 04:19:06 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 04:19:06 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘Int -> String’ |
| 04:19:06 | <lambdabot> | with actual type ‘[[Char]]’ |
| 04:19:20 | <hololeap> | so "\x -> " isn't considered part of the expression? |
| 04:20:55 | <hololeap> | @type (\x -> replicate x $ "abcd") :: Int -> [String] |
| 04:20:56 | <lambdabot> | Int -> [String] |
| 04:21:05 | <monochrom> | Oh oops. |
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| 06:17:12 | <ski> | > let x = 0; y = 1 in x * y -- "Yeah manual ; turns off layout parsing and so explicit {} is also called for." |
| 06:17:13 | <lambdabot> | 0 |
| 06:19:30 | <ski> | the absurd pattern is the neutral element of the disjunctive pattern, just like the wildcard ("don't care"/"anything goes") pattern is the neutral element of the conjunctive pattern (of which the "as"-pattern, `<var>@<pat>', is a special case). (conjunctive patterns would be more useful, with `ViewPatterns', or `PatternSynonyms') |
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| 07:26:15 | <tomsmeding> | byorgey: yes, that's precisely what I mean! Thanks for the example, that's even an application of TTG :) |
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| 09:02:21 | <haskelln00b> | I only just ran across the super-helpful https://web.archive.org/web/20160321231319/http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/his... |
| 09:02:25 | <haskelln00b> | great overview of the story at that point |
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| 09:02:29 | <haskelln00b> | it makes me wonder if there is a "10 years on" retrospective from then |
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| 09:02:43 | <haskelln00b> | from authors who have an equally comprehensive view of what happened in the decade since |
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| 09:17:15 | <kuribas> | gtraverse seems to restrictive: gftraverse :: forall t (f :: Type -> Type) (g :: Type -> Type) m. (Applicative m, Generic (t f), Generic (t g), GFTraversable (Curried (Yoneda m)) f g (Rep (t f)) (Rep (t g))) => (forall a. f a -> m (g a)) -> t f -> m (t g) |
| 09:17:24 | <kuribas> | I need f :: (k -> Type) |
| 09:18:54 | <kuribas> | bug? |
| 09:19:04 | <kuribas> | FTraversable has : FTraversable (t :: (k -> Type) -> Type) where |
| 09:19:18 | <kuribas> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hkd-0.1/docs/Data-HKD.html#t:FTraversable |
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| 09:37:46 | <kuribas> | is the default kind *, or k ? |
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| 09:38:18 | <kuribas> | for example: f in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hkd-0.1/docs/Data-HKD.html#v:ftraverse_ |
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| 09:40:24 | <kuribas> | Or a in (forall a. f a). |
| 09:40:32 | <kuribas> | does a have kind * or k? |
| 09:41:10 | <romesrf> | i think f :: * -> * |
| 09:41:36 | <romesrf> | however, with levity polymorphism, you can say that f :: k -> k |
| 09:41:46 | <romesrf> | but I'm really not sure |
| 09:42:08 | <romesrf> | I have to re read the paper on levity polymorphism bc I didn't grok it all the first time around |
| 09:42:27 | <romesrf> | kuribas: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/levity-pldi17.pdf |
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| 09:43:49 | <romesrf> | I believe you'll find your answer there |
| 09:44:05 | <kuribas> | err... |
| 09:44:10 | <kuribas> | that's a lot of text |
| 09:44:32 | <kuribas> | I just want to know the default. |
| 09:45:14 | <romesrf> | kuribas: quoting the paper |
| 09:45:40 | <romesrf> | symbol "*" is the kind of ordinary types |
| 09:46:02 | <romesrf> | when you say f :: * -> * I believe it's the same as f :: Type -> Type |
| 09:46:09 | <kuribas> | I know... |
| 09:46:16 | <romesrf> | when you say f :: k -> k it means the function is polymorphic on the kind |
| 09:46:24 | <kuribas> | I want to pass it a phantom type. |
| 09:46:33 | <romesrf> | so f would work for both ordinary types Type but also Unboxed types |
| 09:46:56 | <romesrf> | and by default, the kind of f there is * -> * |
| 09:47:25 | <romesrf> | to answer your question, I'm pretty sure the default kind is * |
| 09:47:41 | <romesrf> | and in (forall a. f a), a :: * |
| 09:48:39 | <kuribas> | didn't that change in some ghc version? |
| 09:49:54 | <kuribas> | type f ~> g = forall a. f a -> g a |
| 09:50:07 | <kuribas> | :k (~>) :: (k -> *) -> (k -> *) -> * |
| 09:50:08 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 09:50:08 | <lambdabot> | Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘~>’ |
| 09:50:08 | <lambdabot> | error: Not in scope: type variable ‘k’ |
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| 09:50:25 | <kuribas> | so it does infer k in that definition... |
| 09:50:37 | <romesrf> | kuribas: it does seem to be k |
| 09:50:45 | <romesrf> | I was running tests on ghci rn |
| 09:50:54 | <romesrf> | I'll get back to you |
| 09:51:31 | <romesrf> | you need PolyKinds to type some type variable as k |
| 09:54:03 | <romesrf> | kuribas: :k (~>) is a good example |
| 09:54:24 | <romesrf> | Turns out I do not know the concrete answer |
| 09:54:34 | <romesrf> | however, one more observation: |
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| 09:59:46 | <romesrf> | nevermind I'm afraid I might be saying things without purpose |
| 10:00:07 | <romesrf> | a few messages before I meant kind polymorphism * not levity |
| 10:04:47 | <kuribas> | hrmf, and now stack doesn't want to take my changes from git... |
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| 10:04:59 | <kuribas> | "This may indicate that the source is a git archive which uses git-annex." |
| 10:05:08 | <kuribas> | thanks, very helpful, stack... |
| 10:11:42 | <kuribas> | haskell tooling sucks big time |
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| 10:12:49 | <kuribas> | documentation says I can use a tarball, but there is nothing on how to specify one... |
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| 10:12:57 | <sm> | each tool is heroic, yet still the war goes badly! |
| 10:12:58 | <kuribas> | On my local file system. |
| 10:13:30 | <kuribas> | It'd be better if there was no stack, and all tools support cabal. |
| 10:14:07 | <sm> | I think lots of people act that way already. What tools don't support cabal ? |
| 10:14:49 | <kuribas> | intellij |
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| 10:15:34 | <sm> | I never managed to get intellij to work, certainly not at the level vs code does now |
| 10:17:17 | <kuribas> | vscode doesn't work for me. It crashes on TH. |
| 10:17:19 | sm | switched from idea to vs code for haskell (and later, everything...) |
| 10:17:29 | <kuribas> | Anyway, I use emacs :) stack if for my colleages. |
| 10:18:11 | <sm> | stack is still my workhorse. I like its UX. |
| 10:18:30 | <sm> | it's undermaintained now though |
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| 10:18:40 | <kuribas> | it expects everyone to use stack. |
| 10:19:13 | <maerwald> | kuribas: vscode crashes on TH? |
| 10:19:17 | <maerwald> | you mean HLS? |
| 10:19:30 | <kuribas> | yes |
| 10:19:36 | <maerwald> | compile it from soure |
| 10:19:46 | <maerwald> | you probably have ABI mismatch |
| 10:19:49 | <kuribas> | and this stack issue is 2019, guess 2 years is to short to solve it... |
| 10:20:12 | <maerwald> | kuribas: the next HLS release will be dynamically linked and check GHC ABI |
| 10:20:20 | <maerwald> | that should remove some of those TH issues |
| 10:20:21 | × | hololeap quits (~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:20:31 | <maerwald> | the alternative is to build it yourself |
| 10:20:37 | <kuribas> | maerwald: I really don't want to spend more time in tooling. |
| 10:20:45 | <maerwald> | building HLS is easy with ghcup |
| 10:21:07 | <kuribas> | like half a day to setup an editor, to find out it doesn't work. |
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| 10:23:29 | <maerwald> | good news then... vscode extension will soon use ghcup to install a dynamically linked HLS |
| 10:24:05 | <kuribas> | maerwald: great I'll try HLS in a few months, and then wait a few months more if it doesn't work. |
| 10:24:38 | <maerwald> | stack is on life-support so the experience will only get worse |
| 10:25:19 | <ski> | haskelln00b : your link got cut off at the end |
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| 10:28:24 | <kuribas> | ah, a local tarball isn't even supported, I have to upload it somewhere... |
| 10:28:39 | <kuribas> | yay, it's working! |
| 10:28:58 | <sm> | kuribas: just curious, what are you doing ? |
| 10:29:41 | <maerwald> | kuribas: did you specify the local tarball with file:///patth? |
| 10:29:45 | <kuribas> | yeah |
| 10:29:53 | <kuribas> | sm: adding a fix to hkd |
| 10:30:02 | <kuribas> | sm: to use in my project. |
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| 10:32:33 | <kuribas> | yay, the deriving works now! |
| 10:33:25 | <maerwald> | kuribas: did you try without file://? |
| 10:33:34 | <kuribas> | yeah, that didn't work. |
| 10:33:59 | <maerwald> | odd |
| 10:34:32 | <juhp[m]> | Anyone use vterm btw for example in Emacs? I am not sure why, seems haskeline does not work work well in vterm afaict |
| 10:34:36 | <fockerized> | do people use vector+lens for easy mutable vector updates,much like array modifications in imperative languages? |
| 10:35:36 | <juhp[m]> | (maybe haskeline does not recognise vterm as a terminal?) |
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| 10:41:09 | <kuribas> | fockerized: what does lens give you compared to indexing? |
| 10:41:21 | <kuribas> | fockerized: I use the functions provided by vector. |
| 10:42:56 | <fockerized> | kuribas: vector API are quite cumblesome |
| 10:43:11 | <kuribas> | I found it quite ok. |
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| 10:43:18 | <fockerized> | kuribas: for example, i have use 'write' to write something |
| 10:43:27 | <fockerized> | very verbose |
| 10:43:35 | <kuribas> | to seems right :) |
| 10:43:59 | <kuribas> | that |
| 10:44:13 | <maerwald> | Vector is ok |
| 10:44:24 | <maerwald> | Array is horrible |
| 10:45:03 | <fockerized> | and 'modify' to modify something. in c like languages, you know arry[1]=.. |
| 10:45:19 | <fockerized> | so i'm guessing the lens api can offer some help |
| 10:45:25 | <fockerized> | but not sure of its performances |
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| 10:47:26 | <kuribas> | no, lenses are for deeply nested structures. |
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| 10:48:13 | <fockerized> | i see their sample code snippets are all used for shallow structures |
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| 11:13:38 | <jackdk> | lenses can be used for deeply nested structures, but you can use them for shallow structures too |
| 11:14:05 | <jackdk> | and to traverse across the `Char`s in a `Text` an the `a`s in a `[a]` in a uniform way |
| 11:14:14 | <jackdk> | and to set the bits in an `Int` |
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| 11:24:42 | <byorgey> | fockerized: I'm not convinced that using lens would get you more concise syntax for mutable array updates |
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| 11:25:50 | <kuribas> | jackdk: you can, but is it worth the complexity? |
| 11:26:05 | <byorgey> | but in general, libraries like 'vector' are set up to make it easy to do operations on entire arrays (map, scan, etc.), not to set individual elements one by one |
| 11:26:57 | <byorgey> | if you find yourself doing lots of individual write operations at particular indices, it's worth asking whether there's a higher-level way to think about whatever you're doing |
| 11:27:09 | <byorgey> | though sometimes it's not easily avoidable. |
| 11:27:24 | <jackdk> | kuribas: for me? yes. |
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| 12:56:42 | <kuribas> | How can I use "Type" instead of "*"? |
| 12:56:49 | <kuribas> | is there an import? |
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| 12:57:00 | <dminuoso> | set -XStarIsType |
| 12:57:27 | <kuribas> | thanks :) |
| 12:57:28 | <dminuoso> | It should be on by default |
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| 12:58:06 | <lortabac> | IIRC it's in Data.Kind |
| 12:58:09 | <geekosaur> | I think you might need to import it still though |
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| 12:58:31 | <kuribas> | right |
| 12:58:33 | <geekosaur> | and isn't that backwards? -XNoStarIsType to force it to us4e Type instead of * ? |
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| 12:59:48 | <kuribas> | Now I am confused why it is useful? |
| 12:59:55 | <kuribas> | XStarIsType |
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| 13:00:32 | <geekosaur> | that's just how things used to work |
| 13:00:55 | <geekosaur> | I think the Report may speak of kinds that way, although standard Haskel lhas no way to express them? |
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| 13:34:19 | <kuribas> | How do you dispatch on a type in a GADT? |
| 13:34:51 | <kuribas> | Do I need to make a second, "type witness" datatype? |
| 13:36:04 | <kuribas> | I guess haskell sucks as a dependently typed language... |
| 13:38:00 | <geekosaur> | yep |
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| 13:42:38 | <kuribas> | ah, stackoverflow post confirms it's impossible. |
| 13:42:44 | <kuribas> | without type classes. |
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| 13:45:49 | <siers> | what does "dispatch" mean? |
| 13:47:15 | <kuribas> | to pick an implementation based on the type. |
| 13:47:55 | <geekosaur> | only typeclasses can do that, yeh |
| 13:48:22 | <kuribas> | even if the type is an exhaustive phantom type... |
| 13:48:24 | <kuribas> | like Bool |
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| 13:48:39 | <dminuoso> | You can think of typeclasses as type-level case-of |
| 13:48:59 | <dminuoso> | With each instance providing a branch |
| 13:49:28 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: Sure, at the end GADTs are just generalized ADTs. But fundamentally they still only allow you to case-of on data constructors. |
| 13:49:50 | <siers> | is there a world where the type-level programming resembles regular (value) programming more? |
| 13:50:00 | <kuribas> | siers: dependent types. |
| 13:50:10 | <kuribas> | siers: idris, agda, coq, ... |
| 13:50:35 | <siers> | hm, ok |
| 13:50:42 | <kuribas> | it doesn't not resemble value programming, it "is" value programming. |
| 13:50:43 | <siers> | but it has type-classes too, no? |
| 13:50:57 | <kuribas> | yes, interfaces. |
| 13:51:04 | <kuribas> | But they are not fundamental. |
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| 13:51:19 | <kuribas> | They are built on proof search. |
| 13:51:33 | <siers> | but then "type-classes are type-level case-of" and the resemblence is lost? |
| 13:51:53 | <kuribas> | indeed |
| 13:52:04 | <siers> | that was what I kind of was getting at |
| 13:52:22 | <siers> | (I have written a small amount of agda with peano number functions, but I hope this summer I'll have time to write something more substantial) |
| 13:54:08 | <kuribas> | Is there a way to remove a constraint? |
| 13:54:34 | <kuribas> | Like : Num a => a => forall a. Maybe a ? |
| 13:54:51 | <kuribas> | turn (Num a => a) into (forall a. Maybe a)? |
| 13:55:48 | <siers> | well, it requires the Num instance, so you need that code |
| 13:56:24 | <kuribas> | yeah, it's open ended. |
| 13:56:30 | <dminuoso> | siers: In the lambda cube, we have polymorphism as `terms binding types` (think id @Int), type operators as `types binding types` (think Maybe :: Type -> Type), and then you have `types binding terms` as dependent types. |
| 13:57:13 | <dminuoso> | So in something like idris or agda you can have all the fun with all the consequences. |
| 13:57:30 | <siers> | :) funny phrasing |
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| 13:57:38 | <siers> | kuribas, what do you mean by that? |
| 13:58:00 | <kuribas> | that the behaviour depends on the call site. |
| 13:58:09 | <siers> | dminuoso, did you read some book about to learn about the lambda cube? |
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| 14:00:01 | <dminuoso> | I picked it up across various resources. Some books and papers referenced it |
| 14:00:33 | <siers> | is there something "canonical" (hope i'm using this right) that lays it out effectively? |
| 14:01:01 | <siers> | dminuoso, and this is supposed to answer my question about "why isn't the type-level lingo more like regular programming lingo?" or? |
| 14:02:26 | <kuribas> | siers: in haskell or idris? |
| 14:02:33 | <siers> | (I hope I don't come off as impolite :), I can't tell) |
| 14:02:50 | <kuribas> | in haskell, you can write "type Foo = Bar 1" |
| 14:02:57 | <kuribas> | then type is a "type synonym". |
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| 14:03:21 | <kuribas> | In idris, it's just a value "Foo : Type; Foo = Bar 1" |
| 14:03:32 | <kuribas> | so the "lingo" is not necessary. |
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| 14:16:48 | <siers> | is that with DataKinds? |
| 14:17:06 | <kuribas> | there are no DataKinds in idris. |
| 14:17:20 | <siers> | > in haskell, you can write "type Foo = Bar 1" |
| 14:17:21 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘in’ |
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| 14:18:21 | <geekosaur> | DataKinds is kinda the first step toward trying to Idris-ize Haskell. we have a very long way to go, though |
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| 14:25:34 | <siers> | I have had this question at the back of my mind for a while: if you're writing in some dependently typed language, I understand you can encode/prove all sorts of mathematical proofs |
| 14:25:36 | <siers> | Then you must be also able to encode probably all invariants you want about your algo and potentially squash a bunch of bugs? :) |
| 14:25:53 | <kuribas> | siers: you can prove anything in idris. |
| 14:26:00 | <siers> | * :D |
| 14:26:07 | <kuribas> | however, wether it is sustainable is another question. |
| 14:26:10 | <siers> | agda also? |
| 14:26:14 | <siers> | yes, sustainability aside |
| 14:26:16 | <kuribas> | sure |
| 14:26:28 | <siers> | So long as you've actually encoded what you had in mind |
| 14:26:29 | <kuribas> | you can prove anything of math in idris/agda/... |
| 14:26:54 | <siers> | well, you don't have the law of excluded middle, apparently, so not quite everything |
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| 14:29:09 | <siers> | at least I've heard that much and I can imagine that will hurt having seen enough mathematics to know that proof by contradiction is used often enough in textbooks |
| 14:29:29 | <kuribas> | you can do proof by contradiction in idris. |
| 14:30:02 | <siers> | ! amazing, I have outdated info |
| 14:30:08 | <kuribas> | if you can prove a contradiction, you can prove anything. |
| 14:30:09 | <kuribas> | :t void |
| 14:30:10 | <lambdabot> | Functor f => f a -> f () |
| 14:30:15 | <kuribas> | :t absurd |
| 14:30:16 | <lambdabot> | Void -> a |
| 14:30:19 | <Franciman> | neado |
| 14:30:41 | <Franciman> | it's hard to get to absurd, but when you get there |
| 14:30:43 | <janus> | kuribas: what do you mean by 'anything of math'? i thought the constructive approach was different than how much mathematicians work? |
| 14:30:49 | <Franciman> | you'll be granted godlike powers |
| 14:31:05 | <kuribas> | janus: oh well, I am not an expert... |
| 14:31:36 | <janus> | ok just checking.. i think it's worth noting |
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| 14:32:58 | <siers> | logic is tough |
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| 14:34:45 | <Franciman> | logic is tough for the hard users of it |
| 14:34:58 | <Franciman> | if you are an outsider to logic and have learnt your whole life to reason about your flawed reasonings |
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| 14:35:19 | <Franciman> | then logic is something you are familiar with, since you've been processing your whole life reasonings as well |
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| 14:44:39 | <kuribas> | ah great, I found a work-around. |
| 14:44:55 | <kuribas> | Basically, as long as there is a GADT around to restrict the types, GHC is happy. |
| 14:45:07 | <kuribas> | So a bit of boilerplate, and it works :) |
| 14:50:56 | <lortabac> | kuribas: depending on what you are doing, at some point you may need an existential or a continuation to unrefine the type |
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| 15:36:35 | <Jason> | Hello, I am unable to find the haskell-gsoc channel, can anybody point me at the right direction? |
| 15:41:09 | <geekosaur> | I think it hasn't been reconstituted on libera yet, since it's still in the planning phase. I'd ask at committee@haskell.org and also point out to them summer.haskell.org still points to freenode :) |
| 15:42:08 | <Jason> | I will do that, thanks for the info. |
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| 16:20:06 | <mcgroin> | How are linked list represented in haskell? |
| 16:20:34 | <mcgroin> | define some custom data type? |
| 16:20:52 | <mcgroin> | or are there some well known library |
| 16:23:24 | <lortabac> | mcgroin: there is a standard list type, whose constructors are [] and (:) |
| 16:23:28 | <geekosaur> | a normla list is a linked list. if you want an array there is Array, there is Vector, there are others |
| 16:23:56 | <lortabac> | it also has syntactic sugar so you can write [1, 2, 3] instead of 1 : 2 : 3 : [] |
| 16:24:29 | <merijn> | mcgroin: The standard list *is* a linked list :) |
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| 16:25:01 | <merijn> | You can easily define your own with slightly different syntax, though |
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| 16:28:09 | <mcgroin> | i see |
| 16:30:13 | <xpika> | hello! first time on libera chat. just testing it works. |
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| 16:30:34 | <lortabac> | xpika: hello |
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| 17:07:04 | <fockerized> | xpika: hello i'm using weechat, also on libera |
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| 17:23:09 | <Articus> | Hi, I installed XMonad through stack, I'm having issues with this, help about this would be awesome. Now xmessage appears when there are errors, but doesn't show any message also whith xmonad --recompile, it says XMonad module not found |
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| 17:25:34 | <geekosaur> | you need a stack.yaml to go along with the xmonad.hs, to tell xmonad --recompile to get its dependencies from stack |
| 17:26:45 | <geekosaur> | this also requires xmonad 0.17.0; it's a bit more work if you are still on 0.15. which come to think of it you will be unless you're using the nightly resolver :( |
| 17:27:48 | <Articus> | Should I symlink ~/.config/xmonad/stack.yaml to ~/.xmonad ? |
| 17:28:59 | <Articus> | It's version 0.17 |
| 17:30:09 | <geekosaur> | if you're on 0.17 then you should probably not be using ~/.xmonad at all |
| 17:30:15 | <Articus> | I thought I had version 0.17 but I have 0.15 |
| 17:30:27 | <Articus> | How do I unistall it? |
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| 17:51:23 | <geekosaur> | Articus, you can just remove the xmonad binary. you can then reinstall using the nightly resolver, or install it with cabal instead of stack. https://xmonad.org/INSTALL.html may be of interest |
| 17:52:01 | <geekosaur> | also you might want to ask in #xmonad instead of here, there are more people who know xmonad (and stack, which I don't particularly; I'm a cabal user) |
| 17:52:32 | <Articus> | Thanks! |
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| 18:35:30 | <sm> | https://www.tweag.io/blog/2022-03-11-nickel-first-release |
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| 18:51:29 | <shapr> | yay! |
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| 18:53:34 | <maerwald> | "Nickel targets Nix" that's where I stopped reading :p |
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| 18:59:27 | <sm> | it's general purpose, not only for nix |
| 18:59:30 | <sm> | looks like a more practical dhall |
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| 19:19:14 | <lechner> | sm: hi, i like it! maybe i'll try using it in places where dhall scared me. is nickel as capable? |
| 19:19:57 | <sm> | check it out lechner, it's 0.1 but looks powerful |
| 19:20:07 | <ski> | siers : proof-by-contradiction is distinct from (direct) proof-of-negation |
| 19:20:13 | <sm> | more powerful perhaps (contracts) |
| 19:20:58 | <maerwald> | sm: dhall tries to be so simple so hard, that it's kinda unergonomic, imo |
| 19:21:23 | <sm> | lots of boilerplate, it seems |
| 19:21:34 | <sm> | in dhall |
| 19:21:55 | <lechner> | yeah, i have stayed away so far |
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| 19:22:11 | <sm> | (I don't use these things, just a spectator) |
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| 19:31:12 | <lechner> | BTW, for anyone using Debian bullseye/stable: I hope to start making backports availablesoon. Right now, it's just GHC 8.10.7. |
| 19:31:31 | <lechner> | https://haskell-backports.debian.net/ |
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| 19:49:06 | <tomjaguarpaw> | I'm installing llvm through brew on a Mac Book Pro M1 (because ghcup said I need it). It's taking forever. Is this expected? I guess I'm surprised there's not a binary distribution of llvm. |
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| 19:50:02 | <geekosaur> | if it's compiling it, yes, it'll take a while. I thought they did have prebuilt binaries though |
| 19:50:22 | <geekosaur> | but I haven't used a Mac in along time and never used brew |
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| 19:50:58 | <maerwald> | tomjaguarpaw: yeah, I use brew on gitlab GHC CI too to install llvm. Not sure why there are no binaries yet |
| 19:51:22 | <tomjaguarpaw> | It's making my Mac hot, which has never happened before. |
| 19:52:28 | <maerwald> | well, if you fancy, you can use nix on mac, there's probably some build cache |
| 19:52:46 | <maerwald> | and 20 hours of problem fixing along the way |
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| 19:53:19 | <hololeap> | llvm takes 3 hours to build on my old box, you'll be fine |
| 19:54:32 | <tomjaguarpaw> | It's got to installing! |
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| 19:55:39 | <tomjaguarpaw> | 2336 seconds elapsed, so 40 minutes? This is mostly for compiling llvm, but also for installing some dependent packages. |
| 19:55:52 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Ah well, now I can install ghc and try to diagnose https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/tbn46e/out_of_memory_when_building_productprofunctors/ |
| 19:55:55 | <geekosaur> | yeh, llvm's *big* |
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| 19:56:46 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Um, now that I've looked, it seems that llvm is already in /usr/bin? |
| 19:57:13 | <geekosaur> | there are smallpieces of llvm but it'sincomplete |
| 19:57:22 | <geekosaur> | apple has always shipped llvm that way ime |
| 19:57:41 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Ah, I see |
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| 19:57:51 | <geekosaur> | in particular opt is missing/incomplete |
| 19:58:01 | <maerwald> | they ship broken toolchain? Sounds like apple. |
| 19:58:18 | <geekosaur> | thye ship just enough toolchain to keep their portof clang happy |
| 19:58:28 | <geekosaur> | but it uses the library versions instead of the standalone ones |
| 19:58:51 | <geekosaur> | so opt and lld are usually missing or unusable |
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| 20:03:53 | <tomjaguarpaw> | over successfulInstallationsViaGhcup (+) RealWorld |
| 20:04:01 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Thanks maerwald ! |
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| 20:05:29 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Oh, that should be (+ 1) |
| 20:05:45 | <maerwald> | are you running 8.10.7? |
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| 20:10:45 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Yes I am. Whatever was the default. |
| 20:11:00 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Or rather, yes I am, because it was the default. |
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| 20:12:57 | <maerwald> | 9.2.1 has native codegen, but I think it's broken? |
| 20:13:26 | <maerwald> | maybe 9.2.2 is better |
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| 20:13:30 | <geekosaur> | yes. but 9.2.2 is out and should be fixed |
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| 20:20:11 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Ah well, I can't reproduce the bug. |
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| 20:21:44 | <maerwald> | blame the user, close the ticket! |
| 20:22:50 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Interesting, 9.2.2 seems to use significantly less memory. |
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| 20:24:12 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Haha, cabal using a funny compression scheme in its store. Seems to strip out all the vowels. prdct-prfnctrs FTW! |
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| 20:24:56 | <sclv> | https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/7209 |
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| 20:27:35 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Cunning |
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| 22:39:45 | × | ncopa quits (~ncopa@alpine/developer/ncopa) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | ouroboros quits (~ouroboros@user/ouroboros) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | hiredman quits (~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | mjrosenb quits (~mjrosenb@pool-108-54-97-96.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | qhong quits (~qhong@rescomp-21-400677.stanford.edu) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | sayola quits (~vekto@dslb-002-201-085-116.002.201.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | hueso quits (~root@user/hueso) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | shriekingnoise quits (~shrieking@201.231.16.156) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | bendo quits (~bendo@ip5f5bebbb.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | quintasan quits (~quassel@quintasan.pl) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | ski quits (~ski@remote12.chalmers.se) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | zzz quits (~z@user/zero) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | iteratee_ quits (~kyle@162.218.222.107) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | xdej quits (~xdej@quatramaran.salle-s.org) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | adium quits (adium@user/adium) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | gabiruh_ quits (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | stilgart quits (~Christoph@chezlefab.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | × | superbil quits (~superbil@1-34-176-171.hinet-ip.hinet.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 22:39:45 | → | jgeerds joins (~jgeerds@55d4548e.access.ecotel.net) |
| 22:39:45 | uroboros | is now known as ouroboros |
| 22:39:46 | Katarushisu1 | is now known as Katarushisu |
| 22:39:47 | Goodbye_Vincent4 | is now known as Goodbye_Vincent |
| 22:39:47 | MasseR46 | is now known as MasseR4 |
| 22:39:48 | incertia_ | is now known as incertia |
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| 22:41:43 | ← | alaminium parts (~habib@217.146.83.233) () |
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| 22:45:39 | × | geekosaur quits (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b))) |
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| 22:45:43 | allbery_b | is now known as geekosaur |
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| 22:46:07 | × | cheater quits (~Username@user/cheater) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 22:46:07 | × | foul_owl quits (~kerry@23.82.193.89) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 22:46:36 | × | tomku quits (~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 22:47:14 | ski_ | is now known as ski |
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| 22:50:36 | × | FinnElija quits (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 22:50:36 | finn_elija | is now known as FinnElija |
| 22:50:54 | × | tomjaguarpaw quits (~tom@li367-225.members.linode.com) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
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| 22:52:40 | × | zincy_ quits (~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:d22:fd9a:65d6:50a8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 22:56:09 | × | mcgroin quits (~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
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| 23:15:09 | qhong_ | is now known as qhong |
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| 23:31:54 | × | acidsys quits (~LSD@2a03:4000:55:d20::3) (Excess Flood) |
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| 23:37:53 | × | zincy_ quits (~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:d22:fd9a:65d6:50a8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:44:48 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 23:44:55 | × | ph88 quits (~ph88@84-30-78-253.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
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| 23:51:54 | × | wroathe quits (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host) |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-03-11.