Logs on 2022-03-12 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:06:44 | <jackdk> | Dillo (old, lightweight web browser) used to do that on its tab labels - was a cool trick |
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| 00:15:47 | <hololeap> | agda... never heard of it. you mean gd? |
| 00:20:15 | <int-e> | c[e]r[ea]l, meet c[u]rl |
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| 05:11:03 | <hololeap> | what's the highest level entry point into the Cabal library that will let me parse a .cabal file? |
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| 05:19:32 | <hololeap> | this looks like what I'm looking for: Distribution.PackageDescription.Parsec.readGenericPackageDescription |
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| 09:09:25 | <euprogramista> | hi there. could someone give me a hand to understand this idea from LYAH? list like [1,2,3] can be viewed as a computation that can't decide on which result it wants to have, so it presents us with all of the possible results |
| 09:09:57 | <euprogramista> | the author mentions that a list is a non-deterministic value. this doesn't make sense to me |
| 09:10:16 | <euprogramista> | It also says: A value like 100 or "what" can be viewed as a deterministic computation |
| 09:10:24 | <c_wraith> | euprogramista: That is a way to view lists, but it's... a bit weird |
| 09:10:39 | <c_wraith> | Like, sometimes it makes sense. |
| 09:10:44 | <c_wraith> | But it's hardly universal. |
| 09:10:46 | <euprogramista> | so it's not me that sees that it's weird? |
| 09:10:57 | <c_wraith> | Sometimes [1,2,3] is just 3 values. |
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| 09:11:20 | <c_wraith> | But it is a way to conceptual what's going on with []'s monad instance. |
| 09:11:26 | <c_wraith> | *conceptualize |
| 09:12:08 | <euprogramista> | it gets even more weird when he says that "what" can be viewed as deterministic computation. "what" is a list of Char, so it should at least fall in the same idea of [1,2,3] to me |
| 09:13:17 | <c_wraith> | Like I said - you can look at it either way |
| 09:14:29 | <c_wraith> | But it's really only natural to think of it that way when you're looking at []'s monad instance from viewpoint that's sort of inside the model |
| 09:15:41 | <c_wraith> | Like, what's happening when you use `x <- foo :: [Int]' inside a do block? well, x is getting a value. What value? Every value inside foo. |
| 09:15:52 | <c_wraith> | You can think of that as a type of non-determinism |
| 09:17:20 | <c_wraith> | but [] isn't especially *good* for that. It's ordered, which makes it impossible to use for any kind of infinite non-deterministic calculation |
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| 09:25:53 | <euprogramista> | c_wraith: I think it makes more sense now. thanks for helping |
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| 10:15:34 | <kuribas> | nice, I found I could remove the phantom types and GADTs, and not loose much safety (if anything at all). |
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| 10:23:24 | <maerwald> | remove from where |
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| 10:24:02 | <kuribas> | my code. |
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| 10:33:03 | <kuribas> | I could lift the type level stuff into value level. |
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| 10:35:37 | <kuribas> | faith in (mostly) simpe haskell restored :) |
| 10:36:28 | <int-e> | next... simplify your code by abandoning types and embracing unsafeCoerce |
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| 10:59:07 | <siers> | ski, I later realized that I might be conflating things, hence the "logic is tough" later on |
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| 11:48:25 | <rembo10> | I'm having a little trouble parsing vcards with megaparsec. A long line can be indented on the next line with a space, but that content can also start with a space... and I'm not really sure how to parse that case |
| 11:49:02 | <rembo10> | e.g. "this is a\r\n long line" (with 2 spaces) |
| 11:49:39 | <rembo10> | It just ends up dropping both spaces |
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| 11:54:50 | <rembo10> | Like I'm not really sure how to set the indent to 1 space, but also allow a space at the start of the data |
| 12:00:25 | <maerwald> | kuribas: but how you gonna write a cool blog post about type level programming now? |
| 12:00:36 | <maerwald> | and how it fixed all your business problems |
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| 13:27:40 | <kuribas> | maerwald: I'll use idris :) |
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| 13:32:02 | <geekosaur> | a wise choice |
| 13:33:18 | <kuribas> | oh nice, i can represent a zip over records using Traversable. |
| 13:35:16 | <kuribas> | zipRecord :: Traversable r => (a -> b -> c) -> r a -> r b -> r c |
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| 13:35:39 | <kuribas> | assuming r is a record with a constant number of elements. |
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| 13:38:17 | <kuribas> | no generics needed. |
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| 14:37:00 | <kuribas> | ah, it seem I do loose a lot of safety... |
| 14:37:26 | <kuribas> | Now my toplevel record looks like Toplevel { foo :: f, bar :: f, baz :: f}. |
| 14:37:35 | <kuribas> | No info about the type of f... |
| 14:37:45 | <kuribas> | Still better than clojure I guess... |
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| 14:55:59 | <Hud> | hi all, looking at how to create diagrams using text, something like those shown in https://kroki.io/#features - what diagram type is best for haskell? |
| 14:55:59 | <mreh> | I'm trying to make an extensible cache interface, where any type can be serialised/parsed into a cache table. Could I maybe use a single function definition each for saving and loading data with a type family definition for each type to be cached? |
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| 14:56:54 | <geekosaur> | sounds morelike a typeclass than a typefamily to me? |
| 14:57:25 | <mreh> | geekosaur: well I was thinking something like this |
| 14:57:37 | <mreh> | type Key = Text |
| 14:57:37 | <mreh> | readCache :: Symbol -> Key -> IO (CacheableType Symbol) |
| 14:57:37 | <mreh> | writeCache :: Symbol -> Key -> CacheableType Symbol -> IO () |
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| 14:58:25 | <mreh> | how else would it know what type to decode to, isn't it dependen't on a value, like the Symbol here? |
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| 15:01:59 | <romesrf> | Hello! |
| 15:02:09 | <romesrf> | What is your preferred way of doing this kind of case matching ? |
| 15:02:11 | <romesrf> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hAKE6uAd |
| 15:02:21 | <romesrf> | I was thinking there might be a cleaner way |
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| 15:09:13 | <geekosaur> | getArgs >>= \case … ? |
| 15:11:00 | <geekosaur> | of course that doesn't work too well if you need to get at the other arguments as well; but by that point you may want to graduate to optparse-applicative or cmdargs or etc. |
| 15:12:12 | <jackson99> | it works well enough for simple cases. ie ["--option", arg]. but yes, for more complex things optparse-applicative is nicer, and you get --help for free |
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| 15:14:32 | <geekosaur> | mreh, if it's dependent on a value then you may be making a mistake in using Haskell instead of e.g. Idris |
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| 15:15:47 | <geekosaur> | but note that Symbol is a kind, not a type, and it is inhabited by types,not values |
| 15:16:12 | <geekosaur> | I suspect you're going to tie yourself into knots trying to make that implementation work |
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| 15:24:21 | <mreh> | geekosaur: I was under the impressions that depdendent types were "working" in Haskell, with the right extensions |
| 15:25:02 | <geekosaur> | not yet |
| 15:25:08 | <mreh> | and yeah, I suppose Symbol is a kind really |
| 15:25:42 | <geekosaur> | possibly you could make that work with a forall sym -> … (in 9.2 at least) but I think all you can thyen do with sym is use it in a TypeApplication |
| 15:26:16 | <geekosaur> | this really is more an Idris kind of thing |
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| 15:27:09 | <mreh> | I was watching Stefanie Weirich make type safe regular expressions in Haskell with dependent typing |
| 15:27:25 | <mreh> | Seems like there's a lot done |
| 15:29:27 | <kuribas> | mreh: "working". What haskell has can at best emulate some of the behaviour of DT. It definitely doesn't have DT. |
| 15:29:32 | <geekosaur> | I wonder if you want to look at the dependent-map package |
| 15:30:22 | <mreh> | but what's missing? It doesn't have pi types, but you can simulate them |
| 15:30:30 | <geekosaur> | and, definitely what kuribas said |
| 15:31:14 | <kuribas> | mreh: DT means that types are just normal values, and you can write function over them. |
| 15:31:46 | <kuribas> | mreh: in haskell, you need to use type families in order to write a function over a type. |
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| 15:32:07 | <geekosaur> | that was where this started out, actually |
| 15:32:11 | <kuribas> | mreh: it's just one example. |
| 15:32:18 | <geekosaur> | I still think it sounds more like a typeclass |
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| 15:32:54 | <mreh> | it could be |
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| 15:34:56 | <mreh> | kuribas: okay |
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| 15:51:01 | <byorgey> | Hud: not sure exactly what you're asking. Why not just use kroki in the first place? And if you need to do it from within a Haskell program, you could still use the kroki API perhaps? |
| 15:52:38 | <Midjak> | Hi anyone which is familiar with haskell LSP in Emacs. I tried servant tutorial and I am stuck with this issue https://github.com/haskell-servant/servant/issues/1559 . Any idea ? |
| 15:53:19 | <Midjak> | tried several hie.yaml configuration without succeed |
| 15:56:09 | <byorgey> | Midjak: try deleting .ghc/<whatever_version>/environments/default ? |
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| 15:57:19 | <byorgey> | Took me a long time to finally find that suggestion when that was happening to me. |
| 15:57:51 | <Midjak> | byorgey, well I am not sure of the effect of this. I have haskell installed with ghcup. Is there an impact on the installation to remove this ? |
| 15:58:14 | <geekosaur> | generally no; you should usually not be installing stuff in a way that would create that file |
| 15:58:25 | <geekosaur> | it's far more likely to make messes than to help |
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| 16:00:14 | <byorgey> | Midjak: should have no effect. |
| 16:00:53 | <Midjak> | ok it works |
| 16:01:00 | <Midjak> | Why ? |
| 16:01:12 | <byorgey> | I wish I knew. |
| 16:01:21 | <Midjak> | what is this folder ? |
| 16:01:33 | <Midjak> | :-) byorgey |
| 16:01:41 | <maerwald> | Midjak: you installed stuff via `cabal install --lib`? |
| 16:01:56 | <maerwald> | that creates a global environment file that now all cabal invocations share |
| 16:02:17 | <maerwald> | that can severly mess with builds |
| 16:02:36 | <byorgey> | aha, TIL |
| 16:02:47 | <Midjak> | no I have just tried `stack new test-servant servant` |
| 16:03:10 | <maerwald> | I'm not aware of stack creating that file |
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| 16:04:58 | <Midjak> | like here https://docs.servant.dev/en/stable/tutorial/install.html |
| 16:06:09 | <Midjak> | perhaps it is a folder which is here for long time |
| 16:06:37 | <Midjak> | I don't get the relation with lsp and hie |
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| 16:08:14 | <Midjak> | 🤯 |
| 16:09:26 | <Midjak> | is .ghc/<whatever_version>/environments/default documented somewhere ? |
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| 16:11:40 | <geekosaur> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/packages.html#package-environments |
| 16:12:02 | <Midjak> | thanks geekosaur |
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| 16:14:33 | <Midjak> | If I want to have a good overview about how cabal, stack and GHC works together. What should I read firstly ? |
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| 16:17:50 | <geekosaur> | sclv is probably the best person to ask about that. or ask in #hackage maybe |
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| 16:19:39 | <Midjak> | oh there is a chan for hackage ok |
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| 16:24:43 | <sclv> | Midjak: https://gist.github.com/merijn/8152d561fb8b011f9313c48d876ceb07 |
| 16:27:59 | <Midjak> | nice thank you sclv |
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| 17:11:08 | <kuribas> | How do I make GADT record syntax? |
| 17:11:20 | <kuribas> | I have "data FeatureSQL f where FeatureSQL { ..." |
| 17:11:37 | <kuribas> | well "data FeatureSQL f where FeatureSQL { ...} -> FeatureSQL f" |
| 17:11:46 | <kuribas> | it's having syntax error on '{' |
| 17:12:41 | <monochrom> | FeatureSQL :: { ... } -> FeatureSQL f |
| 17:13:21 | <kuribas> | that works, thanks! |
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| 17:48:51 | <hpc> | on the topic of that gadt question, it would be nice if you could use that syntax for regular functions too |
| 17:49:08 | <hpc> | so instead of having to write runFoo defaultOptions {...} you just write runFoo {...} |
| 17:49:43 | <hpc> | and what runFoo can do is right there in its type signature instead of off in this other data definition |
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| 18:38:48 | <hololeap> | this is a really good album: https://bluetech.bandcamp.com/album/the-four-horsemen-of-the-electrocalypse |
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| 18:39:04 | <hololeap> | oops wrong channel haha |
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| 19:05:04 | <sm> | good to know |
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| 21:49:54 | <maerwald> | "Module `Prelude' does not export `(<>)'" |
| 21:50:03 | <maerwald> | I wonder how many manhours these things have wasted |
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| 23:24:53 | <steven1> | hello, let's say I have a Monad stack with IO as base called AppM, and a few functions of type AppM (STM ()). Is it possible for me to atomically compose these functions? e.g. foo :: AppM (STM ()), bar :: AppM (STM()), is there some way to do `atomically $ foo >> bar` ? |
| 23:25:21 | <steven1> | clearly what I wrote doesn't type check, but not sure if there's a way to compose these things |
| 23:26:12 | <steven1> | what I did is something like `do foo' <- foo; bar' <- bar; liftIO $ atomically $ foo' >> bar'` but it seems verbose |
| 23:30:21 | <steven1> | I guess I need something like liftSTM with type STM a -> IO a, which matches the type of atomically but is not the same thing |
| 23:32:08 | <steven1> | hmm maybe unsafePrimToIO, no clue if it will do what I want though |
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| 23:42:31 | <hololeap> | do { x <- foo ; y <- bar ; liftIO $ atomically $ x >> y } :: AppM () |
| 23:42:39 | <hololeap> | assuming AppM has a MonadIO instance |
| 23:43:04 | <jackdk> | I think your conjectured `liftSTM` breaks the STM abstraction |
| 23:44:05 | <hololeap> | ha I literally just repeated your code. sorry, I can't read |
| 23:45:11 | <steven1> | jackdk: yeah, I was kind of thinking that's the case |
| 23:45:14 | <jackdk> | You've constructed some strange-looking types which I haven't used when I last used STM: you have actions `foo` and `bar` which decide on some STM swizzling to do, and the you want to fuse them into a transaction and run it. It feels like every bit of that is said by the code you wrote, without much additional fluff |
| 23:45:48 | <steven1> | so foo and bar are really just doing reader stuff (getting a TChan from the reader state) |
| 23:45:58 | <steven1> | so they should be fine to run inside the transaction |
| 23:46:16 | <jackdk> | It looks like the combined transaction is `liftA2 (*>) foo bar` |
| 23:46:50 | <steven1> | hm I guess so |
| 23:46:56 | <steven1> | let me double check |
| 23:47:03 | <hololeap> | you can use the version of 'atomically' from UnliftIO.STM which would make the 'liftIO' redundant |
| 23:47:43 | <jackdk> | I was about to suggest defining `atomically = liftIO . STM.atomically` somewhere to cut noise but yeah that sounds fine |
| 23:48:04 | <jackdk> | at which point you have `atomically $ liftA2 (*>) foo bar` |
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| 23:48:55 | <steven1> | right I think I'm seeing now |
| 23:49:02 | <steven1> | I think I just need atomically <$> do foo; bar; |
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| 23:50:44 | <steven1> | wait that's not it |
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| 23:50:57 | <hololeap> | liftA2 (*>) foo bar >>= atomically |
| 23:50:59 | <hololeap> | right? |
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| 23:51:49 | <jackdk> | Think so. Does it typecheck? Because I'm used to seeing the atomically at the start of an expr, I would probably flip it around with `=<<` |
| 23:51:57 | <steven1> | lemme try |
| 23:52:10 | <steven1> | but basically next I'm trying to use do notation and bind values |
| 23:52:36 | <steven1> | yeah that works so far |
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| 23:55:16 | <steven1> | I was trying `liftA2 (>>=) foo (\f -> bar) >>= atomically` but that doesn't seem to work |
| 23:56:06 | <steven1> | liftA2 (>>=) is confusing me haha, I need to think about this |
| 23:56:28 | <steven1> | ah I see why it doesn't work |
| 23:56:30 | <hololeap> | :t liftA2 (>>=) |
| 23:56:31 | <lambdabot> | (Monad m, Applicative f) => f (m a) -> f (a -> m b) -> f (m b) |
| 23:56:42 | <steven1> | yeah |
All times are in UTC on 2022-03-12.