Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-03-14 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:02:07 albet70 joins (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
00:05:06 × acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d0c7049f09a48046c09dc85a06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
00:06:38 srk- joins (~sorki@user/srk)
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00:09:25 × srk quits (~sorki@user/srk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:09:26 srk- is now known as srk
00:11:43 lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
00:11:50 × geekosaur quits (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection)
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00:19:43 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:22:27 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
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00:26:27 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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00:34:12 × mreh quits (~matthew@host86-172-33-212.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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00:38:26 kimjetwav joins (~user@2607:fea8:2363:8f00:1c7e:ff3d:8ab5:397a)
00:39:10 meinside joins (uid24933@id-24933.helmsley.irccloud.com)
00:42:54 × kimjetwav quits (~user@2607:fea8:2363:8f00:1c7e:ff3d:8ab5:397a) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:46:32 × szkl quits (uid110435@id-110435.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
00:46:43 lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
00:54:31 dsrt^ joins (~dsrt@50.232.121.75)
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00:59:28 × tomboy64 quits (~tomboy64@user/tomboy64) (Quit: Off to see the wizard.)
01:00:03 × cyphase quits (~cyphase@user/cyphase) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:02:00 merijn joins (~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
01:03:37 × ph88^ quits (~ph88@84-30-78-253.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:05:17 × justsomeguy quits (~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
01:11:19 mvk joins (~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc3:7e00::45ee)
01:11:24 × TonyStone quits (~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-0d13-db80-1316-2ed6.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:12:55 TonyStone joins (~TonyStone@cpe-74-76-51-197.nycap.res.rr.com)
01:19:45 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
01:30:45 andreabedini[m] parts (~andreabed@2001:470:69fc:105::c821) ()
01:31:15 × pretty_dumm_guy quits (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
01:31:24 × merijn quits (~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:34:41 × ProfSimm quits (~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:45:09 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:46:33 wroathe joins (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
01:46:33 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
01:46:33 wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
01:53:00 × dsrt^ quits (~dsrt@50.232.121.75) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
01:57:20 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@p200300c95737a2002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
02:00:57 × mvk quits (~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc3:7e00::45ee) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:05:29 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:07:11 × img quits (~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
02:08:32 × vicfred quits (~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
02:15:11 InstX1 is now known as Inst
02:15:43 img joins (~img@user/img)
02:16:03 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:24:53 wroathe joins (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
02:24:53 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
02:24:53 wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
02:24:53 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Client Quit)
02:25:05 wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
02:26:22 arjun joins (~arjun@user/arjun)
02:28:05 × sammelweis quits (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
02:29:21 sammelweis joins (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
02:33:30 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:34:39 × rtsn quits (~nstr@h-98-128-229-174.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:36:20 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
02:41:15 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:43:17 × raehik quits (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:45:52 × Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@46-54-248-191.static.kate-wing.si) (Quit: Leaving)
02:46:36 × ub quits (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf19b7b7b1fc5a865b2694ae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:46:56 ub joins (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf19b765b1fc5a865b2694ae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
02:47:10 alMalsamo is now known as lumberjack123
02:51:00 × ubert quits (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf19b7b750061d6876d392e8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:51:19 ubert joins (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf19b765379f43bf352ea1c3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
02:51:20 × TonyStone quits (~TonyStone@cpe-74-76-51-197.nycap.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:51:51 TonyStone joins (~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-0034-44e7-d0a8-40e0.res6.spectrum.com)
02:52:48 × TonyStone quits (~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-0034-44e7-d0a8-40e0.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:55:43 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
03:04:00 × lemonsnicks quits (~lemonsnic@cpc159519-perr18-2-0-cust114.19-1.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
03:04:21 × tomku quits (~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
03:05:53 tomku joins (~tomku@user/tomku)
03:17:33 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:18:09 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
03:22:24 lemonsnicks joins (~lemonsnic@cpc159519-perr18-2-0-cust114.19-1.cable.virginm.net)
03:25:06 × hololeap quits (~hololeap@user/hololeap) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:26:56 × LiaoTao quits (~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:27:36 × adanwan quits (~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:28:25 merijn joins (~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
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03:29:57 × boborygmy_ quits (~bob@pool-173-54-217-168.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:30:09 × td_ quits (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-124.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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03:38:15 lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
03:42:17 × mon_aaraj quits (~MonAaraj@user/mon-aaraj/x-4416475) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
03:46:12 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:46:57 InstX1 joins (~Liam@2601:6c4:4080:3f80:19b3:b5d4:126:3f1b)
03:48:12 × Inst quits (~Liam@2601:6c4:4080:3f80:cd4d:1ad4:b525:ecf8) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:48:16 wroathe joins (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
03:48:16 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
03:48:16 wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
03:49:58 LiaoTao joins (~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
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03:59:32 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:00:00 × Taneb quits (~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0) (Quit: I seem to have stopped.)
04:00:41 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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04:01:24 × merijn quits (~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:01:28 × zebrag quits (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
04:05:10 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
04:05:52 × img quits (~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
04:05:57 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
04:06:29 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
04:12:20 img joins (~img@user/img)
04:13:43 × liz quits (~liz@2a00:23c5:9680:501:b62e:99ff:fee4:47fa) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:14:42 × jao quits (~jao@45.134.142.225) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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04:31:08 × jackson99 quits (~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com) (Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout))
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04:33:15 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:34:00 × geekosaur quits (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
04:34:01 allbery_b joins (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
04:34:04 allbery_b is now known as geekosaur
04:36:39 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
04:36:41 zero is now known as zzz
04:39:44 × zmt01 quits (~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Quit: Leaving)
04:40:03 × arjun quits (~arjun@user/arjun) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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04:41:05 × kaph quits (~kaph@net-109-116-124-149.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:49:57 × swistak quits (~swistak@185.21.216.141) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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04:56:34 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
04:56:41 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:56:42 cyphase joins (~cyphase@user/cyphase)
04:58:54 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
05:00:39 kaph joins (~kaph@net-109-116-124-149.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
05:03:18 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
05:04:53 × Giovanni quits (~Giovanni@176.55.166.222) (Remote host closed the connection)
05:07:00 × EvanR quits (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Quit: Leaving)
05:09:53 InstX1 is now known as Inst
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05:14:38 × boborygmy quits (~bob@pool-173-54-217-168.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
05:21:00 × shriekingnoise quits (~shrieking@201.231.16.156) (Quit: Quit)
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05:21:14 jakalx parts (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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05:37:38 × jpds quits (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection)
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05:41:14 × arjun quits (~arjun@user/arjun) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
05:44:49 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
05:44:50 × boborygmy_ quits (~bob@pool-173-54-217-168.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
05:45:38 yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
05:45:41 × boborygmy quits (~bob@pool-173-54-217-168.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
05:50:18 × kaph quits (~kaph@net-109-116-124-149.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:51:00 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
05:57:01 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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06:04:46 × ski quits (~ski@remote12.chalmers.se) (Quit: Lost terminal)
06:07:33 × yauhsien quits (~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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08:57:06 <Inst> hi guys
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09:16:33 <kuribas> Morning.
09:16:48 <kuribas> convinced your cleaning lady yet to use haskell?
09:17:07 <kuribas> It was you who wanted to convert everyone to haskell right?
09:19:54 <kuribas> I see a lot of rust jobs for crypto now. Does rust have the same curse as haskell now?
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09:22:23 <Inst> hi guys
09:22:32 <Inst> I'm willing to pay 20-80 USD an hour
09:22:37 <Inst> for tutoring in Haskell and Computer Science
09:22:46 <Inst> contact me if interested, we can set something up on an accredited tutoring website
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09:30:54 <[exa]> O_o
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09:53:44 <maerwald> kuribas: you can just ignore those jobs if you're not interested
09:56:23 <merijn> Sure. I can also ignore jobs in all the other "burn the world down"-industries, but as someone with a vested interest in "not burning the world down", I'd rather complain about them existing and hopefully getting others to reconsider taking those jobs too :)
09:58:30 <maerwald> merijn: I contacted reddit mods to remove those troll posts from job postings, but I'm not sure what the verdict is
09:58:39 <maerwald> I find it extremely annoying
09:59:34 <maerwald> Idc about peoples opinions on industries in job postings. I can make my own decision. Those people can write those things on their own blogs.
10:00:47 <kuribas> maerwald: which troll posts?
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10:01:16 <maerwald> kuribas: things like "I hope this is not blockchain or high-speed trading"
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10:01:48 <kuribas> maerwald: oh, so now something is a troll-post because it doesn't fit your world-view?
10:01:54 <merijn> I mean, high-speed trading is at least several orders of magnitude less harmful
10:01:57 <maerwald> kuribas: not at all
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10:02:55 <maerwald> kuribas: my view is that all replies to job postings that don't either engage with the author or ask for more information are troll posts
10:03:00 <merijn> I can still respect someone who works in high-frequency trading.
10:03:14 <kuribas> maerwald: well, then luckily the moderators are less short minded that you are.
10:03:18 <kuribas> reddit is not a job board.
10:03:24 <maerwald> if everyone posts their opinion about random industries on every single job post, then no one is gonna post jobs anymore
10:03:38 <merijn> maerwald: Why? I think it's fine advertising jobs in the community, but then you can't complain if the community thinks your job is shit
10:03:38 <maerwald> I've advised companies before not to post their job postings on r/haskell
10:03:45 <maerwald> because it's toxic
10:03:47 <kuribas> merijn: isn't that just gambling?
10:04:08 <kuribas> merijn: I mean, it doesn't look at all at the added value of the product.
10:04:19 <kuribas> it's just gaming the system.
10:04:19 <merijn> maerwald: If you don't want criticism on your company/job posts, pay a recruiter and advertise them somewhere else
10:04:30 <maerwald> merijn: that's not criticism
10:04:39 <maerwald> that's your personal world view
10:04:48 <maerwald> you can share that somewhere else
10:04:58 <kuribas> maerwald: if reddit was a job board, then I'd agree, but it isn't.
10:05:05 <merijn> It's both my personal worldview *and* criticism
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10:05:11 <merijn> kuribas++
10:05:21 <maerwald> sure, I'm not making reddit rules
10:05:33 <maerwald> and will continue to advise people not to post jobs there
10:05:34 <[exa]> can it be classified as spam?
10:05:45 <merijn> kuribas: At least it's gaming the system in ways that aren't actively victimising tons of gullible people >.>
10:06:11 <merijn> kuribas: And orders of magnitude less negative environmental impact
10:06:46 <kuribas> isn't cardano less impactful on the environment?
10:06:55 <kuribas> Because it's proof of stake, not proof of work?
10:07:06 <maerwald> yes, but most people don't even think that far
10:07:42 <merijn> That's what they claim. But even if it's true, proof of stake still has toxic social problems, so "kudos to at least not burning the world in a literal sense, I guess"
10:08:33 <maerwald> I'm anti capitalism, but I don't promote this world view on every job posting, just because 99% of all companies in the world are run by capitalistic principles. That's trolling.
10:09:06 <maerwald> And I could also claim this is *criticism*.
10:10:23 <kuribas> maerwald: no, it's censorship.
10:11:17 <Inst> [exa]
10:11:25 <Inst> do you want extra money? I can pay 20-80 USD
10:11:31 <Inst> for tutoring in Haskell and computer science
10:11:36 <Inst> 2 hours, so 40-160 USD depending on qualifications
10:11:39 <maerwald> kuribas: absolutely not
10:11:48 <[exa]> Inst: I want extra time and less money
10:11:53 <Inst> fuck
10:11:57 <maerwald> kuribas: freenode doesn't allow sharing porn. Is that censorship?
10:11:57 <[exa]> yeah.
10:11:57 <Inst> anyone want extra money and less time?
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10:12:10 <maerwald> er, libera =D
10:12:12 <kuribas> maerwald: yes, it is.
10:12:18 <maerwald> that's nonsense
10:12:22 <maerwald> but anyway, nuff said
10:12:28 <kuribas> Though it makes sense in some context.
10:13:09 <[exa]> Inst: books don't work for you? (I learned most of the stuff that way, usually just following a syllabus for whatever exam I needed to pass)
10:13:44 <Inst> [exa]: I have minimum proper computer science experience
10:13:48 <Inst> actually,
10:13:50 <Inst> @monochrom
10:13:50 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
10:13:58 <Inst> wanna get me to stop being an idiotic blowhard and be paid for it?
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10:14:24 <Inst> There are very few books that are oriented at people who are starting computer science with Haskell
10:14:30 <Inst> HaskellBook doesn't count, I hate that book
10:15:14 <kuribas> btw, I see nothing in https://libera.chat/guidelines/ about pornography...
10:15:26 <[exa]> Inst: "basics of computer science" and "haskell" don't have much in common
10:15:43 <Inst> thing is, working through Whitington's Haskell From The Very Beginning
10:15:45 <Inst> Haskell seemed easy
10:15:57 <Inst> it was completely mind-blowing, tbh
10:16:12 <Inst> I guess Whitington's going to make a book on Prolog next
10:16:21 <maerwald> kuribas: you can try it and see how quickly you get banned :D
10:16:40 <Inst> and how long it takes before IRCops listens to your begging and unbans you
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10:17:35 <kuribas> it does say channels should be on-tipic, which makes sense.
10:18:14 <maerwald> does it? that's censorship
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10:19:18 <merijn> kuribas: Wrong page
10:19:27 <merijn> kuribas: That's the guidelines, not network policies
10:19:34 <merijn> kuribas: "Libera.Chat is bound by Swedish law. Unlawful activities and related supporting activities are not allowed. In addition to that, heavy media file trading, pornography, and various forms of antisocial behaviour are forbidden."
10:19:46 <merijn> https://libera.chat/policies/
10:19:57 <kuribas> merijn: right, thanks :)
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10:20:07 <Inst> so I guess supporting Julian Assange is forbidden
10:20:08 <Inst> ;_;
10:20:17 <kuribas> maerwald: yes, it is.
10:20:41 <maerwald> great we sorted this out
10:21:08 <kuribas> maerwald: what you are proposing is censorship, not based on some well defined rules, but arbitrary rules you define based on your own preferences.
10:21:20 <maerwald> kuribas: I gave the rules, you missed them
10:21:23 <maerwald> and they are well-defined
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10:21:38 <kuribas> yeah, your rules.
10:21:47 <maerwald> eh?
10:22:04 <maerwald> you're just arguing now
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10:23:01 <maerwald> I proposed those rules to the mods, we'll see how they decide.
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10:24:21 <kuribas> maerwald: what were those rules?
10:24:45 <maerwald> I'm not going to repeat myself, you can scroll up
10:25:44 <kuribas> I only see a remark about "troll posts".
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10:26:26 <romesrf> Hi, cabal question: when defining a library in the package file, how should I set the ghc-options? What I mean is, if the executable is compiled with -O2, will the library also be compiled with O2? The same for -fllvm, etc
10:26:42 <romesrf> How should I set ghc-options in the library to guarantee that?
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10:29:44 <kuribas> maerwald: BTW, if there should be rules on job-postings, then there should be also a rule to at least show: - what the job is about, - salary range.
10:30:07 <maerwald> kuribas: I absolutely agree. It's very annoying to ask for salary expectations all the time. I have better things to do ;)
10:31:08 <maerwald> It's like I put "software engineering" on my CV and expect themto ask what exactly I mean
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10:33:09 <Inst> anyone want a 20-80 USD tutoring job?
10:33:49 <maerwald> Inst: maybe you have more success posting this on discourse
10:33:56 <maerwald> (don't use reddit)
10:34:06 <maerwald> https://discourse.haskell.org/
10:34:16 <Inst> merci
10:34:34 <Inst> or should it be bedankt?
10:34:57 <xerox> Inst: what is it about?
10:35:07 <Inst> Haskell / Comp Sci tutoring
10:37:09 <kuribas> Inst: nederlands?
10:37:39 <Inst> was trying to guess maerwald's origin (Ospald more implies German / Austrian, or perhaps Scandinavian country)
10:37:45 <Inst> and try to say thank you in his native language
10:38:17 <Inst> 谢谢,arigato,kangsamnida, danke, etc...
10:38:33 <Inst> gracias, grazie, etc
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10:47:33 <romesrf> Inst: 20-80 USD per hour?
10:48:25 <kuribas> Inst: -60? So I pay you 60$, and I teach you?
10:48:51 <Inst> sounds like a good deal!
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10:51:58 <kuribas> Inst: indeed! Let me know if you find someone.
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10:57:15 <Inst> https://discourse.haskell.org/t/looking-for-haskell-comp-sci-tutor/4195
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11:03:25 <maerwald> Inst: maybe also add your timezone there
11:09:33 <Inst> thanks
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14:46:38 <FilipKalan> [Hiring] Remote Haskell Engineer
14:46:38 <FilipKalan> Adeva - a global talent network that enables work without boundaries by connecting high-scale companies with distributed tech talent across the world is hiring Haskell Engineers. The position is fully remote, time-flexible and the wages start at around 9000$ monthly.
14:46:39 <FilipKalan> If you are interested, you can easily apply at the following link:
14:46:39 <FilipKalan> https://adevait.com/careers/job-openings/2RlkV5WePY
14:47:41 <geekosaur> this is probably better done on discourse.haskell.org or reddit. not that it's wrong to do it here but fewer people will notice
14:49:48 <FilipKalan> Thank you for your recommendation!
14:51:24 <shapr> wat
14:53:17 <geekosaur> hm?
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15:06:26 <janus> @tell romesrf you can put the options in the 'common' stanza and they will apply to all.if you have multiple cabal files i guess you need to use cabal.project/.local
15:06:26 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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15:19:05 <unit73e> hello
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15:20:08 <unit73e> I'm trying to have a ByteString that can skip bytes but it seems like Get will have to be it just not to repeat code, though it's not the intended use case
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15:20:39 <unit73e> Reason being that xp3 files first check were the file ranges are located, and then get the files
15:20:46 <unit73e> unless someone here has a better idea
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15:21:34 <unit73e> I could use the good old drop, take, etc but that would end up just being something like Get
15:23:42 <lortabac> unit73e: there is a 'skip' function in Data.Binary.Get, is it what you need?
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15:41:12 <unit73e> lortabac, that's what I'm using right now. I think it's good enough.
15:41:41 <unit73e> not sure what will happen since it's the idea is to extract, so Get (IO ())
15:41:43 <unit73e> but we'll see
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15:42:19 <lortabac> unit73e: sorry I don't understand
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15:44:30 <unit73e> lortabac, I need to do copies of ranges of a bytestring, so I need to know how much I read. that's why I need something like Get or something that tells me how much I read already. At least that makes sense to me. Now Get is supposed to transform a ByteString into something else, but I'm using it to get ranges.
15:44:41 <unit73e> I don't think it's a problem, but I'll find out
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15:45:58 <lortabac> unit73e: so you want to define an instance 'Get (IO ())'?
15:46:44 <unit73e> lortabac, that's what I need to do. It's not like I don't know what to do, it's just that I don't know a better way.
15:46:55 <unit73e> if there's a better way at all
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15:47:08 <lortabac> sorry I meant 'Binary (IO ())'
15:48:13 <lortabac> I think it's often a good idea to create some intermediate structured type before executing IO
15:48:36 <lortabac> it allows you to separate the pure seralization part from the side effects
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15:50:39 <unit73e> so something like this example: https://wiki.haskell.org/Serialisation_and_compression_with_Data_Binary
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15:51:20 <unit73e> but in my case I need to get sub-strings of the bytestring. the xp3 file has many files in it.
15:51:35 <unit73e> in general the idea would be the same though
15:52:08 <lortabac> yes, I would define a Ranges data type with all the substrings that you need
15:52:42 <lortabac> then you may define a Binary instance for that type (or you can do it without the type class)
15:53:43 <unit73e> hum, ok. that sounds like a good idea.
15:54:00 <unit73e> better than cheating with Get. thanks
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15:56:53 <merijn> Why is Get cheating?
15:57:05 <merijn> I would personally highly recommend explicit use of Get over Binary
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16:01:25 <unit73e> merijn, because it's supposed to be used for building structures, but I shouldn't really care about that I guess
16:01:52 <unit73e> if all I want to copy data, so be it
16:02:13 <merijn> Get is basically a parser combinator monad for byte data
16:02:40 <unit73e> yes, I successfuly used it to parse the xp3 index
16:02:47 <unit73e> that part works very well
16:03:21 <unit73e> the xp3 index has items, which are files, and then segments, which are the ranges were the binary data actually is in the xp3 file
16:03:38 <unit73e> each range can be compressed or not
16:04:05 <unit73e> so I could use Get anyway, skip to the ranges I want, and copy the data to files
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16:04:33 <unit73e> does that sound kind a dumb or not really?
16:05:54 <unit73e> of course I need the segments to be sorted but that's easy
16:06:51 <lortabac> unit73e: I'd say if it works then it's not dumb :)
16:07:03 <unit73e> :) yeah
16:07:22 <lortabac> it's just that if you separate the serialization logic from the side effects the code tends to become cleaner
16:08:05 <unit73e> I can deal with that later I guess. for now I'll just have it working. At one point I'll publish it in hackage.
16:08:12 <unit73e> when it does something useful
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16:31:07 <Lizarus> Guys
16:31:20 <Lizarus> what's the best hackage library to work with gtk
16:31:46 <Lizarus> i just want to create some simple gui apps
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16:33:27 <Hecate> Lizarus: I think monomer is nice
16:33:29 <Hecate> check it out
16:35:41 <[exa]> Lizarus: gi-gtk seems like the "maintained" bindings, but ^ very recommendable
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16:48:44 <maerwald> Lizarus: I prefer gtk3
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17:54:35 <energizer> Typeclasses mean that when i want to implement f for both X and Y I need to say X and Y implement typeclass C and f is available to C-implementers. and then C T => g T in terms of f. why is that better than just making f available directly and g in terms of that, without introducing the typeclass at all? assume 1) namespacing such that f can be uniquely identified and 2) the typeclass system that doesn't take proofs of the typeclass laws. In other
17:54:35 <energizer> words, the typeclass might as well be called "Hasf" and implemented automatically behind the scences for any type that has f.
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18:33:23 <Logio> what is the type of f in the latter case?
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19:21:13 <Guest84> Hello!
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19:24:12 <[exa]> \o
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19:27:24 <[exa]> energizer: the typeclass serves as a kind of "general schema" that all overloads of a given function need to respect, without that the type _inference_ gets quite problematic (google: "ad-hoc overloading is np-complete")
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19:31:59 <[exa]> energizer: compare this eg. with C++, where the tradeoff is a bit different: the type inference in C++ is unidirectional (thus capable of inferring less information), but there are also fewer restrictions on overloading (you don't need the type schemes of the methods, the only thing you have to ensure is that you don't have "ambiguous" return types with the same-parameter overloads)
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19:51:03 <Las[m]> Is there a way to explicitly add implicit parameters to a type alias? I specifically want to do something like `type A {x} = B x` to essentially create an alias for `B` where the first parameter is hidden.
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19:54:56 <byorgey> Las[m]: no, that's not possible. There would be no way for Haskell to infer the hidden parameter.
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19:57:48 <Las[m]> well I don't expect it to be inferrable
19:58:31 <energizer> [exa]: so what is the point of C++'s Concepts?
19:58:44 <Las[m]> In my concrete scenario I have two parameters so I'm doing `type A (y :: MyConst Type x) = something @x`
19:59:09 <Las[m]> I'd rather not make use of this hack
19:59:13 <geekosaur> I was wondering if you'd used the wrong term, from the syntax
19:59:27 <geekosaur> an implicit parameter is ?foo :: type
19:59:36 <energizer> [exa]: which iiuc is basically typeclasses
19:59:48 <geekosaur> you want to hide a type parameter from TypeApplications, correct?
19:59:49 <energizer> (maybe i should ask #c++ instead)
19:59:50 <Las[m]> ah yeah I don't mean that kind of implicit parameter, I mean like the ones in Idris
20:00:02 <Las[m]> Well I want it to be available through TypeApplications
20:00:33 <geekosaur> pretty sure all type params have to be explicit
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20:01:20 <Las[m]> well the above work-around does work
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20:06:39 <Guest27> May I ask a noob question about subclassing?
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20:11:49 <Las[m]> don't ask to ask, just ask the question
20:11:57 <Guest27> Oh okay
20:13:24 <[exa]> energizer: concepts are much more like simple interface tests, they mostly allow the typechecker to fail early with a good explanation of what the problem is, instead of hitting a problem in a complex context much deeper in the code. Not sure if you can do anything better with them
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20:13:53 <[exa]> the correspondence with typeclasses is AFAIK mostly optical, they describe sensible properties
20:15:09 <Guest27> Implementing an Altair BASIC emulator as a learning project. Altair BASIC uses both integers and floating-point and often coerces one into the other for different operations.
20:15:10 <Guest27> At the moment I have a BasicNum class that subclasses Num, Integral, etc. and there's lots of boilerplate-looking code like
20:15:10 <Guest27> Int i + Dub d = Dub $ fromIntegral i + d
20:15:10 <Guest27> Dub d + Int i = Dub $ d + fromIntegral i
20:15:11 <yushyin> Guest27: beginner questions are most welcome here (this also applies to any other level of question ofc).
20:15:11 <Guest27> etc.
20:15:11 <Guest27> Is there a more elegant way to express these coercions in Haskell?
20:15:23 <[exa]> Las[m]: why would you need the extra parameter there btw?
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20:16:50 <Las[m]> [exa]: you mean the `y`? It's necessary for other reasons
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20:17:03 <Las[m]> Or are you asking why I need this implicit type parameter in the first place
20:17:06 <[exa]> Guest27: there are a few possibilities, the simplest one is literally to make your `Int` and `Dub` to be constructors of a single type, like `data MyNum = MyInt Int |MyFlt Float | ...`
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20:17:27 <[exa]> Las[m]: yeah, what is the situation where the implicit parameter would help?
20:17:31 <[exa]> (they generally don't help much)
20:17:47 <Guest27> [exa] Oh it already is. data BasicNum = Int Integer | Dub Double. But I still need to pattern match every possibility right?
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20:19:15 <[exa]> Guest27: yeah, I assumed there aren't that much possibilities
20:19:29 <Las[m]> [exa]: the parameter is confusing to users of the API and can in practice always be inferred. It's currently a common practice to just do `B _ y`
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20:21:09 <Guest27> [exa] It's not too bad, but if I ever decide to add another number type (e.g. throwing in single-precision Floats as well) the possibilities quickly multiply...
20:21:14 <[exa]> if it can be inferred from the other params, can you make a type family for it to autofill it where required?
20:21:18 <[exa]> Las[m]: ^
20:21:45 <Las[m]> [exa]: I don't see how that would work
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20:22:32 <Las[m]> Well it's not even inferred from the other params, it's inferred from the usage in practice. The first and second parameter don't constrain each other
20:22:52 <[exa]> not sure about the exact usecase but instead of `data My x y z = My x y z` you could write `data My x y = My x y (GetZFor x y)`
20:23:14 <Las[m]> yeah that wouldn't work in my case
20:23:20 <[exa]> ah ok
20:24:36 <Las[m]> so with newtypes you can usually do `newtype A :: forall x. Y` to explicitly introduce an implicit type parameter, but this syntax doesn't work with type aliases AFAICT
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20:25:13 <Las[m]> that is, `newtype A :: forall x. Y where A :: ...` such that it's GADT syntax
20:25:21 <[exa]> Guest27: for doing this generically you'd need to encode the whole conversion table (or partial ordering of the subclasses) somehow into the type system. I guess you could do with a bunch of typeclasses
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20:27:15 <[exa]> Las[m]: lenses use type aliases with foralls, although the variable is AFAIK always qualified there
20:27:48 <Guest27> [exa] Interesting... thanks for the suggestion/help
20:27:53 <[exa]> you need some uncanny extension like Rank2Types or so, but otherwise it should work
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20:30:33 <Las[m]> thanks
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20:32:58 <[exa]> Guest27: not sure if that's the best solution but you can code a bit of prolog in multiparameter typeclasses to inductively convert the types at both sides to a common supertype
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20:33:28 <[exa]> (honestly I guess other folks here might know better ways to do it)
20:34:14 <geekosaur> acme-php? (no, don't do that)
20:34:20 <Guest27> Is it easy to integrate Prolog into Haskell? That sounds like a fun solution
20:34:50 <[exa]> Guest27: if you disable a few safety checks, haskell type system can be used as prolog
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20:35:06 <[exa]> geekosaur: that's everything via strings but yeah I thought about that. :D
20:36:17 <[exa]> Guest27: there's a fun post here https://aphyr.com/posts/342-typing-the-technical-interview
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20:38:47 <Guest27> [exa] "The walls smell of Slack DMs and conflict avoidance." lol this is great
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20:44:52 <[exa]> Guest27: anyway, I'm not really sure if this will work for normal (+) from Num, at least not easily. Its interface is pretty strict, and you'd need to hide the subtype information somehow.
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21:06:03 <Guest27> [exa] That article was really cool, thanks for sharing. Now to define BASIC integers as Peano numbers :P
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All times are in UTC on 2022-03-14.