Logs on 2022-03-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 04:25:30 | <hololeap> | why do internal libraries in .cabal require build-type: Simple |
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| 04:51:55 | <zzz> | how can i get ghci errors in vim's quickfix window? |
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| 07:28:30 | <jneira[m]> | @zzz with hls: https://haskell-language-server.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configuration.html#vim-or-neovim |
| 07:28:30 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 07:29:14 | <jneira[m]> | or ghcid https://github.com/ndmitchell/ghcid |
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| 10:27:53 | <ManofLetters[m]> | type level programming question: why does it fail?... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/2e57cc6a6723ea893220755f9d252baec5c7cb2b) |
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| 10:33:22 | <merijn> | ManofLetters[m]: 'x' is completely free, so the constraint is uncheckable |
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| 10:35:06 | <ManofLetters[m]> | that's fine, this is just a simplified example; the question is why, if I assume that for every `x`, it can't be deduced for just `0` |
| 10:36:21 | <merijn> | ManofLetters[m]: You can't "assume that it is for every X" |
| 10:36:52 | <merijn> | ManofLetters[m]: The constraint says "F x ~ Int", in the absent of a choice for 'x', GHC treats that as unsolvable (which it is) |
| 10:37:02 | <merijn> | s/absent/absence |
| 10:37:37 | <merijn> | ManofLetters[m]: Whether "F x" is equivalent to Int, depends on 'x' |
| 10:37:37 | <ManofLetters[m]> | oh, I see |
| 10:38:11 | <merijn> | You're trying to use it more as an assertion that "F x" is always Int, yeah? |
| 10:38:22 | <ManofLetters[m]> | yes |
| 10:38:24 | <merijn> | I'm not sure you can actually write that in GHC Haskell |
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| 10:42:56 | <ManofLetters[m]> | the following works and may be OK for me: `f :: (F x ~ Int, x ~ 0) => F x -> Int`(in the real code `F x ~ Int` is a part of a much larger constraint that will be present there regardless) |
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| 10:44:08 | <[exa]> | ManofLetters[m]: what's the greater purpose of that btw? |
| 10:44:51 | <ManofLetters[m]> | taking over the world |
| 10:45:18 | <ManofLetters[m]> | in smaller scale: I have a lot of functions that share the constraints that `F x ~ Int` is a part of |
| 10:45:32 | <ManofLetters[m]> | and the functions work on 0, 1, etc., various values of the x |
| 10:46:09 | <ManofLetters[m]> | and I'd like to express in the functions' signatures both what Nat they work on and that they share the big constraint |
| 10:46:15 | <ManofLetters[m]> | e.g., another function may be |
| 10:46:40 | <ManofLetters[m]> | `g :: (F x ~ Int, x ~ 5) => Double -> F x -> Int' |
| 10:47:07 | <ManofLetters[m]> | remember that `F x ~ Int` is something bigger and `Int` is much bigger and more variable, too |
| 10:47:10 | <merijn> | ManofLetters[m]: I mean, that's just writing "Double -> F 5 -> Int" with extra steps?? |
| 10:47:28 | <merijn> | ah, no, I guess not |
| 10:47:36 | <merijn> | Since that doesn't force F5 ~ Int |
| 10:47:38 | <ManofLetters[m]> | `g :: (F x ~ Int, x ~ 5) => Double -> F 5 -> Int' is going to fail, right? |
| 10:48:00 | <merijn> | "g :: (F 5 ~ Int) => Double -> F 5 -> Int" |
| 10:48:19 | <ManofLetters[m]> | oh, yes, but I can't change the `F x ~ Int` part |
| 10:48:27 | <ManofLetters[m]> | it's part of a much larger constraint |
| 10:48:35 | <ManofLetters[m]> | hmm, unless I can apply it to 5 |
| 10:48:37 | <ManofLetters[m]> | let me check... |
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| 10:49:47 | <[exa]> | oh so this example is completely arbitrary, okay |
| 10:50:40 | <ManofLetters[m]> | yes, that may be optimal -- parameterize the big `F x ~ Int` constraint with x and do `g :: C 5 => Double -> F 5 -> Int', where `type C n = F n ~ Int` |
| 10:50:57 | <ManofLetters[m]> | s/,/`/ |
| 10:51:40 | <ManofLetters[m]> | or g :: C x, x ~ 5 => Double -> F x -> Int' if x appears in many places and `5` is really a big type-level list |
| 10:51:56 | <ManofLetters[m]> | * or `g :: C x, x ~ 5 => Double -> F x -> Int` if x appears in many places and `5` is really a big type-level list |
| 10:52:11 | <ManofLetters[m]> | thank you all |
| 10:53:08 | <ManofLetters[m]> | the real example is this, if that's interesting:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/15f0ee6e1cfa7305aff7dd8e462b7582c297c969) |
| 10:53:55 | <ManofLetters[m]> | though that doesn't yet incorporate the big constraint, parameterized by `n`; so it's still artificial |
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| 10:54:33 | <ManofLetters[m]> | the new version will have `fromS0 :: IsScalarS '[] r => DualNumber (TensorS sh r) -> DualNumber r` |
| 10:54:58 | <ManofLetters[m]> | and... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/abbedf490561f8a2f02186e64a4ada6b32617e7e) |
| 10:55:12 | <ManofLetters[m]> | you shouldn't have asked :) |
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| 10:56:52 | <[exa]> | do you have any way to constrain the `sh` in `Dual (TensorS sh r) ~ OS.Array sh (Dual r)` ? |
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| 10:58:45 | <[exa]> | (perhaps show it an unique `sh` that could be derivable from `r` and useful in this situation?) |
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| 10:59:37 | <ManofLetters[m]> | in this function `sh` is `'[]`, in other's is various other lists |
| 10:59:48 | <ManofLetters[m]> | BTW, the last example should have been `fromS0 :: IsScalarS '[] r => DualNumber (TensorS '[] r) -> DualNumber r` |
| 11:00:20 | <ManofLetters[m]> | or `fromS0 :: (IsScalarS '[] r, sh ~'[]) => DualNumber (TensorS sh r) -> DualNumber r`, equivalently, I guess |
| 11:00:31 | <ManofLetters[m]> | s/'[]/sh/ |
| 11:00:37 | <[exa]> | ManofLetters[m]: in type signature of `fromS0`, how is it able to deduce that `sh ~ '[]` ? |
| 11:01:02 | <ManofLetters[m]> | which one, because I've amended it many times |
| 11:01:18 | <ManofLetters[m]> | the original one? |
| 11:01:29 | <[exa]> | the "the real example is this, if that's interesting" line |
| 11:01:34 | <ManofLetters[m]> | my naive idea was that "if it holds for sh, it also holds for '[]" |
| 11:01:53 | <[exa]> | ah yes, but you're saying there "if it holds for all sh" |
| 11:02:02 | <[exa]> | and there's no way to check that |
| 11:02:21 | <ManofLetters[m]> | sh being implicitly universally quantified, I thought, but merijn explained to me why it doesn't work |
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| 11:02:52 | <ManofLetters[m]> | I naively thought a constraint is an assumption |
| 11:02:58 | <ManofLetters[m]> | so you don't check that, you assume it |
| 11:03:09 | <ManofLetters[m]> | [exa]: have you seen the simplified example? |
| 11:03:31 | <ManofLetters[m]> | `f :: F x ~ Int => F 0 -> Int` |
| 11:04:06 | <ManofLetters[m]> | so F applied to anyting is Int, hence F applied to 0 is Int --- that's what I thought, but merijn explained that's not how it works, see that older discussion |
| 11:04:07 | <[exa]> | yes, that says the same. "If you manage to prove that (for all x) F x ~ Int, then you can use this function as `:: F 0 -> Int` |
| 11:04:45 | <[exa]> | yes :] |
| 11:05:07 | <ManofLetters[m]> | hah, what I thought was (forall x. F x ~ Int) => F 0 |
| 11:05:13 | <ManofLetters[m]> | * F 0 ~ Int |
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| 11:06:17 | <ManofLetters[m]> | so, `f :: (forall x. F x ~ Int) => F 0 -> Int` is equivalent to `f :: Int -> Int` |
| 11:06:26 | <ManofLetters[m]> | or something |
| 11:06:28 | <[exa]> | I was asking if you could derive some simple example of `sh` for the typechecker there so the problematic `forall x` could be solved/removed. |
| 11:07:04 | <ManofLetters[m]> | I don't follow |
| 11:07:15 | <ManofLetters[m]> | in the larger example the only sh I'm interested in is '[] |
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| 11:07:34 | <ManofLetters[m]> | in that particular function, in others it will be some other type-level list |
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| 11:08:17 | <ManofLetters[m]> | but I want to share the same big constraint that states the same thing for all sh, be it '[] or any other type level list |
| 11:08:36 | <[exa]> | ManofLetters[m]: the "is equivalent to" there holds mathematically but not in type systems (unless you apply some magic that I don't see there) |
| 11:08:45 | <ManofLetters[m]> | I think will work if I parameterize the constraint by sh and apply to '[], but I haven't type-checked yet |
| 11:09:24 | <ManofLetters[m]> | [exa]: yes, that's what merijn explained to me and I agreed, see above |
| 11:09:30 | <[exa]> | ah okay :] |
| 11:09:56 | <[exa]> | my notice with deriving `sh` was one possible workaround then :] |
| 11:10:32 | <ManofLetters[m]> | right; thanks for the tip, I may come back for more if the last idea doesn't work :) |
| 11:10:52 | <[exa]> | ok, good luck, this looks pretty dense |
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| 11:12:13 | <[exa]> | what's the "math" semantics of IsScalarS you have there btw? (when compared to IsScalar) |
| 11:12:18 | <[exa]> | (just curious) |
| 11:12:36 | <ManofLetters[m]> | yay, it worked, in this form: `type IsScalarS (sh :: [Nat]) r = (IsScalar r, Dual (TensorS sh r) ~ OS.Array sh (ScalarOf r))` |
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| 11:13:20 | <ManofLetters[m]> | `IsScalarS` is just an extension of `IsScalar` with an extra equality |
| 11:13:48 | <[exa]> | more like, what does the "S" stand for |
| 11:14:31 | <ManofLetters[m]> | the equality is that for any tensor shape, primal component of a dual number of a tensor of that shape is the same type as a tensor of that shape of scalars |
| 11:14:42 | <ManofLetters[m]> | S is for shaped tensors: |
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| 11:15:13 | <[exa]> | ah cool |
| 11:15:29 | <ManofLetters[m]> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/orthotope-0.1.2.0/docs/Data-Array-Shaped.html#t:Shape |
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| 11:16:08 | <[exa]> | ah cool |
| 11:16:21 | <[exa]> | I guess you could fix it a bit more semantically also by just specifying `Shape sh` |
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| 11:22:27 | <ManofLetters[m]> | why not; where exactly would I put that? |
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| 12:25:08 | <karim> | Greetings all, I was searching for #haskell-gsoc channel on freenode, but couldn't find it, anyone knows how to find it? |
| 12:25:32 | <[exa]> | freenode still exists? |
| 12:25:58 | <geekosaur> | summer.haskell.org still says it'son freenode |
| 12:26:22 | <[exa]> | ah okay, so maybe it's now here on libera :] |
| 12:26:27 | <geekosaur> | the last person who asked, I pointed to the gsoc committeealong with a suggestion they tell the committee to update their contact page |
| 12:26:41 | <karim> | I searched for it here also, but it's not here. |
| 12:26:46 | <geekosaur> | in any case I think it's as yet too early for the channel to exist |
| 12:27:03 | <[exa]> | karim: anyway I'd say it's pretty safe to start asking here |
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| 12:28:13 | <geekosaur> | actually I wonder if committee@haskell.org is even a thing any more, or if it's been folded into the HF or something |
| 12:28:23 | <geekosaur> | we don't seem to be very organized at present |
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| 12:37:10 | <maerwald> | geekosaur: haskell.org is not folded into HF |
| 12:37:24 | <maerwald> | https://www.haskell.org/haskell-org-committee/ |
| 12:38:58 | <geekosaur> | not the committee itself, but I could imagine summer of code stuff changing hands |
| 12:39:35 | <geekosaur> | it's a bit weird for it to be run by the haskell.org committee inthe first place, but that was all we had before |
| 12:41:15 | <maerwald> | I think haskell.org is exactly the right body for this. Its only purpose is helping the community and managing certain resources. |
| 12:41:39 | <maerwald> | HF is more specific, with its own technical goals |
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| 13:24:27 | <Inst> | @maerwald |
| 13:24:27 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 13:24:28 | <Inst> | yo |
| 13:24:33 | <Inst> | I mentioned in Matrix |
| 13:25:34 | <Inst> | that the death of Haskell Platform is a disaster |
| 13:25:43 | <Inst> | because we've lost library standards |
| 13:26:02 | <Inst> | and the loss of WinGHC means that windows integration is out the wazoo |
| 13:26:03 | <maerwald> | Inst: https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/7 |
| 13:26:12 | <maerwald> | wrt library standards |
| 13:26:14 | <Inst> | I'm wondering if you're willing to deal with library standards in the future |
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| 14:02:04 | <Inst> | @maerwald |
| 14:02:04 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 14:02:25 | <Inst> | I think Hecate is pissed at me, in part because my friend (who is a champion influencer) is now a former friend, and we ended up splitting quite acrimoniously |
| 14:02:32 | <Inst> | but say, if people put in a program to donate to GHCup |
| 14:02:36 | <Inst> | would you accept donations? |
| 14:02:43 | <Inst> | I'd gladly toss 20 USD your way |
| 14:02:55 | <maerwald> | eh |
| 14:03:27 | <maerwald> | There's an open-collective page |
| 14:03:37 | <maerwald> | the link is at the bottom of the homepage |
| 14:03:43 | <maerwald> | you can donate there |
| 14:03:57 | <maerwald> | not sure what's that about influencers though |
| 14:08:57 | <romesrf> | o/ |
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| 14:10:32 | <yushyin> | Inst: if you prefix nicks with @ you trigger the bot. just mention names without @ |
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| 14:10:51 | <Inst> | It's some personal drama, nothing more, nothing less |
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| 15:40:32 | s | is now known as Guest1639 |
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| 15:50:44 | <Guest1639> | I'm trying to set up a stack project with multiple executables, and I'm having trouble figuring out exactly how to do it. one of the executables is a preprocessor with source in Foo.hs, the second is generated by Bar.hs which needs the preprocessor to run on it to generate valid haskell code. the problem is that stack build will compile Foo.hs, but |
| 15:50:45 | <Guest1639> | then try to compile Bar.hs without building the executable for Foo first. is there a way to get stack to build an internal executable before compiling a library? do i need to split this into multiple packages? |
| 15:51:41 | <merijn> | Guest1639: I don't think Cabal (and thus stack) has a way to support that without splitting it into multiple packages, no |
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| 15:54:00 | <Guest1639> | merijn guess i'll just have to split it :(. thank you! |
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| 15:54:45 | <janus> | maerwald: ooh you did the cloning per subdirectory fix, thank you!!! |
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| 16:11:56 | <maerwald> | at least they merged that |
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| 22:42:42 | <niemand> | Hi, has sb a nix flake for a haskell project with ghc 9.0+ and haskell-language-server? |
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| 22:47:02 | <dons> | morning all. |
| 22:48:52 | <sclv> | morning dons! |
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| 22:52:06 | <romesrf> | good evening! |
| 22:52:19 | <niemand> | good night! |
| 22:52:26 | <jackdk> | g'day! |
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| 22:52:57 | <romesrf> | this is lively, does anyone want to share what they're working on? |
| 22:53:20 | <sclv> | trying to work out the most general setting in which the isomorphism between traversable functors and finitary containers holds :-P |
| 22:53:33 | <sclv> | I think its any locally cartesian closed category, but its a bit fiddly |
| 22:53:57 | <niemand> | >Hi, has sb a nix flake for a haskell project with ghc 9.0+ and haskell-language-server? |
| 22:54:16 | <niemand> | An example project with linear types on github could suffice |
| 22:54:49 | <niemand> | I want to show off linear types at my school :D |
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| 22:55:45 | <hololeap> | I think linear types was introduced in 9.2 |
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| 22:55:52 | <geekosaur> | 9.0 |
| 22:55:57 | <hololeap> | oh, my bad |
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| 22:56:28 | <geekosaur> | it was the reason for the jump from 8.x |
| 22:59:59 | <romesrf> | sclv: it sounds interesting! i'm still getting started in category theory but I really enjoy it. I'm going through Bartosz's book (chapter 9 now) |
| 23:02:14 | <romesrf> | sclv: in what context are you trying to do that? is it something that has been before and you're trying to understand the proof better? or..? |
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| 23:03:55 | <romesrf> | sclv: or are you trying to make sense of something you learned? that happens to me a lot -- reading a small sentence in a book and spending the next hour thinking about it and trying to understand it |
| 23:04:06 | <sclv> | there's proofs that hold in set, and they're neat. https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/jeremy.gibbons/publications/uitbaf.pdf -- out of my own interests i'm trying to figure out if they hold more generally |
| 23:04:56 | <romesrf> | reading... |
| 23:05:14 | <romesrf> | I understand! that's cool |
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