Logs on 2022-03-20 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:01:05 | <dsal> | GADTs seems weird here since this is mostly just a record to hold some state. |
| 00:01:28 | <dsal> | Making it `String -> IO ()` allows it to compile. I wonder if I can actually *use* this. |
| 00:02:48 | <corisco[m]> | you could make it existential (skolem) with forrall.... https://stackoverflow.com/a/40106335 |
| 00:03:54 | <dsal> | Hmm... The parameter for the data was specifically for this one thing. I might try that, though. |
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| 00:06:58 | <corisco[m]> | i'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here.... but ther's a lib called RIO that deals with what you are trying to do using a ReadT and a class for the log functionality... (https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2017/07/the-rio-monad/) |
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| 00:07:08 | <Artem[m]> | does anyone know: if my package got < 0 on Stackage nightly because of dependency bound, will it suffice to revise metadata on Hackage to have it back? I vaguely remember that Stackage infrastructure is not keen of revisions. |
| 00:09:06 | <corisco[m]> | * with what seems you are, * and a type class for |
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| 00:10:17 | <corisco[m]> | * with what seems you are, * and a type class for, * functionality... (https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2017/06/readert-design-pattern/) or (https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2017/07/the-rio-monad/) |
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| 00:10:44 | <dsal> | Yeah, I'm using MonadLogger in a few places. I just want a user of this library to be able to pass in one little thing that can be used to emit a log on the other side. |
| 00:11:34 | <dsal> | The annoying thing is that this is just one invocation that needs to be done one time when doing retries and stuff. |
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| 00:17:06 | <dsal> | Yeah, doing this as an existential, I don't see how I can convince the compiler that `m` is related to the current `m`. |
| 00:17:11 | <corisco[m]> | if u have a data type `data Env m = { logAction :: (MonadMask m, Monad m) => String -> m () }`... either u pass this around everywhere, or you implicit pass the Env with an ReaderT.... in my opnion having a HasLog class that it's members have the MonadMask constraint seem the better approach here.... this is described on the articles i posted above.... otherwise you will have to pass that around. |
| 00:17:38 | <dsal> | I'm using StateT here. |
| 00:18:08 | <corisco[m]> | indeed you can´t do that... because existential would mean your data type would have to be `data Env = { logAction :: (MonadMask m, Monad m) => String -> m () }` |
| 00:18:25 | <corisco[m]> | its an existential because m doesn't exists outside that context..... |
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| 00:19:16 | <corisco[m]> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_quantification |
| 00:20:17 | <dsal> | Heh. I'm familiar with these things. I'm just not very familiar with GHC 9.0 or how I can make code I've been using for a while happy under it. |
| 00:20:49 | <dsal> | I have a program that's using MonadLogger to log and I have a library that's *not* using MonadLogger that… I guess should use MonadLogger just for this one thing.. |
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| 00:21:55 | <corisco[m]> | * logAction :: forall m. (MonadMask m, |
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| 00:24:13 | <corisco[m]> | and why can't you use MonadMask constraint on the function declaration of that library?... wouldn't that be esier? |
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| 00:25:22 | <corisco[m]> | s/esier/easier/ |
| 00:25:35 | <dsal> | Yes, it's been easier for the last couple of years. And now I'm trying to get it working with 9.0 |
| 00:26:44 | <geekosaur> | I still think trying to put the constraint on just the field accessor but not the constrained type itself has something fundamentally wrong with it |
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| 00:27:21 | <geekosaur> | I'm imagining some headaches if you file this as a bug :) |
| 00:28:54 | <corisco[m]> | but that still works XD....... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c91920c96c350676f183e2417292d2549354d150) |
| 00:29:55 | <dsal> | It sounds like you're describing my existing code. |
| 00:29:59 | <corisco[m]> | you are trying to use the constraint inside the record, like geek said that is unusuall and can only be done with GADT´s as far as i know.... |
| 00:31:22 | <dsal> | Oh, you mean push the definition of the logging function outside? |
| 00:32:04 | <dsal> | I think just requiring MonadLogger works OK here. I got to move on to a different error anyway. |
| 00:34:05 | <corisco[m]> | yes, i meant as a standalone function not inside the environment.... or you could mimic the env on the RIO lib, the articles i posted describe how it could be done... welll i hope i could help, sry for the confusion... im not very experienced in haskell |
| 00:34:56 | <dsal> | Just using MonadLogger effectively means I get to delete a bit of code, so I guess that's not bad. It's just pushing a constraint around a bit more. |
| 00:35:14 | <[itchyjunk]> | :( i forgot everything. i want to divide 2 integers and get a float as a return. i know i need to somehow to some conversion from into to float but how.. |
| 00:36:11 | <dsal> | @hoogle Int -> Float |
| 00:36:12 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Float int2Float :: Int -> Float |
| 00:36:12 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Float.RealFracMethods int2Float :: Int -> Float |
| 00:36:12 | <lambdabot> | Extra intToFloat :: Int -> Float |
| 00:36:23 | <dsal> | I wouldn't use one of those. |
| 00:36:26 | <dsal> | @hoogle Int -> Double |
| 00:36:27 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Float int2Double :: Int -> Double |
| 00:36:27 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Float.RealFracMethods int2Double :: Int -> Double |
| 00:36:27 | <lambdabot> | Extra intToDouble :: Int -> Double |
| 00:36:51 | <dsal> | I'm just demonstrating how unhelpful @hoogle is, I guess. |
| 00:37:04 | <[itchyjunk]> | https://bpa.st/I7KA |
| 00:37:09 | <dsal> | :t fromIntegral |
| 00:37:10 | <lambdabot> | (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b |
| 00:37:11 | <[itchyjunk]> | I wanted to take a list and compute it's mean :x |
| 00:37:26 | <dsal> | What language is this? |
| 00:37:46 | <[itchyjunk]> | oh ohh, its supposed to be haskell lol |
| 00:37:58 | <geekosaur> | the naïve way to do that has a space leak, btw |
| 00:38:21 | <dsal> | I'd use foldMap |
| 00:38:31 | <dsal> | Or, I guess, foldMap' |
| 00:39:27 | <dsal> | Oh, you're creating functions specifically for the bits. Both of your total and sum are simple catamorphisms that are part of Data.Foldable, but I'd still consider not writing them twice. |
| 00:41:06 | <[itchyjunk]> | I haven't coded in a while so i forgot everything and this was what i remembered :< |
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| 00:56:01 | <[itchyjunk]> | This is what i ended up with |
| 00:56:01 | <[itchyjunk]> | https://bpa.st/BHFA |
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| 01:00:35 | <dsal> | [itchyjunk]: You don't need `:: Float` there. |
| 01:01:00 | <dsal> | But at least use (or implement) foldr. :) |
| 01:02:11 | <[itchyjunk]> | yeah i need to refresh on functions again :x |
| 01:03:15 | <dsal> | :t sum |
| 01:03:16 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Num a) => t a -> a |
| 01:03:19 | <[itchyjunk]> | What is the :: Float supposed to do there? |
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| 01:03:26 | <[itchyjunk]> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10303251/haskell-converting-int-to-float |
| 01:03:33 | <[itchyjunk]> | I was mimicking this |
| 01:04:04 | <dsal> | It says "this is a Float" which you already know because that's the only thing that can work there. |
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| 01:29:54 | <[itchyjunk]> | myFunctions (x:xs) = someOtherFunctions (x:xs) |
| 01:30:01 | <[itchyjunk]> | This would work to pass the original list right? |
| 01:30:21 | <[itchyjunk]> | I know there is some way to name the list so you can refer to it but i couldnt' remember that. but i think this should work :x |
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| 02:00:52 | <dsal> | [itchyjunk]: a@(x:xs) |
| 02:01:03 | <[itchyjunk]> | Ah |
| 02:01:17 | <[itchyjunk]> | would fun (x:xs) = fun2 (x:xs) also work? |
| 02:01:46 | <dsal> | Yeah, you're just building the list again. I'm sure it's the same. |
| 02:02:11 | <dsal> | But if `fun (x:xs) = fun2 (x:xs)` then `fun = fun2` |
| 02:03:11 | <[itchyjunk]> | Right |
| 02:03:26 | <[itchyjunk]> | my code has turned into a mess.. |
| 02:03:26 | <[itchyjunk]> | https://bpa.st/R5CA |
| 02:03:34 | <[itchyjunk]> | https://bpa.st/MW5A |
| 02:03:41 | <[itchyjunk]> | first link is the error and the second the code |
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| 02:27:43 | <dsal> | [itchyjunk]: I didn't bother reading the error, but I see you're trying to subtract a Float from an Int |
| 02:28:07 | <dsal> | It might be easier if you just used the types you need instead of trying to deal with two different things. |
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| 03:20:08 | <sebastiandb> | This is a super beginner question, but I'm having trouble understanding why two expressions are not equivalent in this context for a simple block of code I wrote |
| 03:20:34 | <sebastiandb> | Basically, there's a variable in a do block, where args <- getArgs |
| 03:20:55 | <sebastiandb> | let a = read . head $ args -- This is fine |
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| 03:21:19 | <sebastiandb> | let a = read (head args) -- this is ambiguous for type inference |
| 03:21:23 | <sebastiandb> | Why is this the case? |
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| 03:29:33 | <sebastiandb> | This is a link to the paste, btw: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/0xgoa6mO |
| 03:30:59 | <sebastiandb> | However, it doesn't seem to work for "let c = (read . head) args", either |
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| 03:44:52 | <boxscape_> | sebastiandb I'm noticing that your comment says "a =", but the error says "c =". Could it be that you assigned it to the variable c without using that variable, thus ghc doesn't know what the type of c will have to be? |
| 03:46:06 | <boxscape_> | (in most cases ghc will be able to figure out the type of unused variable, but not for functions like `read` with polymorphic return type) |
| 03:46:51 | <zzz> | :t read |
| 03:46:52 | <lambdabot> | Read a => String -> a |
| 03:47:08 | <zzz> | ghc doesn't know what the type of a is |
| 03:48:14 | <sebastiandb> | boxscape_ That is exactly it. It actually works fine if I don't bind it to an unused variable. Thanks for answering that really basic question. |
| 03:48:29 | <boxscape_> | no problem |
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| 07:06:52 | <tomsmeding> | dsal: if you haven't solved it yet, 99% sure the fix is to eta-expand logAction, i.e. `gets (\x -> logAction x)` |
| 07:07:41 | <tomsmeding> | In the vast majority of cases, code that stopped compiling with simplified subsumption is fixed by eta-expansion, because that's basically what ghc did for you earlier |
| 07:08:53 | <tomsmeding> | iirc in the paper relevant to this stuff the authors write that they checked all of hackage and could fix almost all problems with eta-expansion, the ones they couldn't fix being precisely the ones where they didn't understand the code to begin with anyway |
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| 07:50:45 | <phma> | lambdabot: (7::Word32)^((6-7)::Word32) |
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| 07:51:53 | <phma> | > (7::Word32)^((6-7)::Word32) |
| 07:51:55 | <lambdabot> | 3067833783 |
| 07:52:50 | <phma> | can anyone explain this strange number? it's 136011104550 in base 7 |
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| 07:55:54 | <Guest9170> | hi, I scratch my head on this function's syntax: |
| 07:55:54 | <Guest9170> | partition p = foldr f ([],[]) where |
| 07:55:55 | <Guest9170> | f x ~(ys,ns) | p x = (x:ys,ns) |
| 07:55:55 | <Guest9170> | f x ~(ys,ns) = (ys, x:ns) |
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| 08:20:58 | <koz> | Guest9170: Is it because of the ~s? |
| 08:23:19 | <Guest9170> | no, I know ~ is use for lazy eval after google. But can't understand ‘|’ |
| 08:24:56 | <koz> | Guest9170: That's a guard. |
| 08:26:09 | <koz> | https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch3.html#x8-460003.13 <-- details |
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| 08:32:33 | <Guest9170> | Thanks, but I think in 'partition' fiunction, there are guards not case. To my understanding, each guards compose by: left-hand, = right-hand . |
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| 08:42:01 | <koz> | Yeah, but guards are not case-statements. |
| 08:42:29 | <koz> | Specifically, what you have there is a boolean guard. |
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| 10:47:14 | <Enrico63> | Hello there |
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| 10:47:45 | <Enrico63> | I've found a bug in how the HLS refactors monadic code |
| 10:47:59 | <Enrico63> | Not sure _where_ I have to post a bug report :/ |
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| 10:49:14 | <Enrico63> | I guess here? https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server |
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| 10:59:02 | <[exa]> | I'd start there, in the worst case you'll get redirected. :D |
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| 13:03:10 | <absence> | i'm trying to get an Eq1 instance for a type, using generic-data and DerivingVia. first attempt "data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a) deriving stock Generic1 deriving Eq1 via Generically1 List" gives me a long error "No instance for (Eq1 (GHC.Generics.D1 ......" with a suggestion to use a standalone "deriving instance". |
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| 13:03:16 | <absence> | so i try "deriving instance Eq1 List via Generically1 List" on a separate line, and get "Expected kind âk0 -> ((* -> *) -> * -> *) -> (* -> *) -> Constraintâ, but âEq1 Listâ has kind âConstraintâ" |
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| 13:04:05 | <absence> | what am i doing wrong? |
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| 13:17:33 | <absence> | oh, the syntax for standalong deriving via is completely different. with "deriving via Generically1 List instance Eq1 List" i get the same "No instance for (Eq1 (GHC.Generics.D1 ......" error as before |
| 13:17:43 | <absence> | standalone* |
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| 13:37:03 | <int-e> | absence: Well the error is absolutely correct. There are no Eq1 instances at the Rep1 level that support that (Generic1 f, Eq1 (Rep1 f)) => Eq1 (Generically1 f) instance. |
| 13:37:14 | <int-e> | (Same story for Ord1) |
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| 13:40:38 | <int-e> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/commit/a4ca6caaa2f61d1ef62db824dd2116b753cf24ee ...Marge Bot committed this, shouldn't there be a corresponding PR then? |
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| 13:42:02 | <int-e> | Ah. Here, https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/5726 ...I wonder whether this was missed in the (well, rather light, it seems) review process... |
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| 13:43:58 | <geekosaur> | "Project has too many branches to search" lol |
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| 13:45:20 | <int-e> | gitlab does feel rather clunky and inefficient |
| 13:46:39 | <absence> | int-e: i'm sure the error is correct, but what is the right way to do this? |
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| 13:47:20 | <int-e> | absence: write a manual instance I suppose |
| 13:48:05 | int-e | isn't an expert on generics. (I've used them, but I have to wrap my head around the details every time I need them) |
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| 13:49:28 | <int-e> | And I'm not in the mood for warping my brain right now to figure out whether you can even have the supporting Eq1 instances for M1, etc, all the ray to Rec1 (since your list type is recursive) |
| 13:50:16 | <int-e> | But I know that they aren't there. That's something I can figure out from the documentation :P |
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| 13:55:04 | <absence> | int-e: hm, i get the same error without a recursive type. i even get the same error if i copy the example from the documentation, so i guess there's a bug somewhere |
| 13:56:09 | <int-e> | absence: ...yeah, of course. There's *none* of those instances. (D1 = M1 D, so you need one for M1 to even start) |
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| 14:00:52 | <absence> | doh, import Generic.Data.Orphans solves the problem..... |
| 14:04:13 | <int-e> | from some third party package, brilliant. |
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| 14:05:11 | <int-e> | liftEq (==.) (Rec1 r1) (Rec1 r2) = liftEq (==.) r1 r2 <-- apparently Rec1 doesn't cause any trouble |
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| 15:04:19 | <Guest394> | hi |
| 15:04:30 | <Guest394> | hi |
| 15:04:36 | <geekosaur> | hi |
| 15:04:43 | <Guest394> | new to haskell |
| 15:04:46 | <Guest394> | and also irc |
| 15:04:55 | <Guest394> | are you a bot? |
| 15:04:56 | × | nexus quits (~nexus@77-234-80-249.pool.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 15:05:08 | <Guest394> | i was tkinking of using haskell for animation |
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| 15:05:21 | <Guest394> | will that be better ? or will python or java do? |
| 15:05:36 | <Guest394> | animations for math videos |
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| 15:06:07 | <geekosaur> | depends on what you're doing, and what you're familiar with |
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| 15:06:27 | <Guest394> | i am familiar with python and java |
| 15:06:40 | <Guest394> | but just for the thrill i want to use haskill for animation... |
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| 15:07:00 | <Guest394> | will it be more effective? |
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| 15:08:29 | <geekosaur> | there are some libraries for animation, but I'd say you'd do better going through some courses before trying to take on a project like that |
| 15:08:54 | <Guest394> | courses for what? |
| 15:08:57 | <Guest394> | haskell? |
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| 15:09:12 | <geekosaur> | @where cis194 |
| 15:09:12 | <lambdabot> | https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html |
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| 15:09:33 | <geekosaur> | haskell is very different from python and java |
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| 15:10:15 | <geekosaur> | both in syntax and in behavior (purity and laziness) |
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| 15:10:48 | <Guest394> | ok , how long have you been using haskell? |
| 15:10:59 | <geekosaur> | and no, I'm not a bot;I'm a channel op and unofficial greeter of sorts |
| 15:11:05 | <geekosaur> | since 2006 |
| 15:11:09 | <Guest394> | @lambdabot what s that link for? |
| 15:11:09 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 15:11:24 | <geekosaur> | that's an online Haskell course |
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| 15:11:42 | <Guest394> | oh oh i see , is it free? |
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| 15:11:55 | <Guest394> | oh wow since 2006 ... thats a long time |
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| 15:13:49 | <geekosaur> | it's free, yes |
| 15:14:40 | <geekosaur> | and one of the better courses. there are also some free-online books you could go with, but that particular CIS194 works well for many people |
| 15:15:00 | <Guest394> | ok thanks |
| 15:15:21 | <geekosaur> | @where books |
| 15:15:21 | <lambdabot> | https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books, see also @where LYAH, RWH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, HTAC, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH, non-haskell-books |
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| 15:17:28 | <Guest394> | thanks alot i have booked marked them |
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| 15:37:50 | <janus> | @where non-haskell-books |
| 15:37:50 | <lambdabot> | `SICP',`CTM',`TaPL',`AtTaPL',`APLD',`PLAI',`TAOCP',`SF',`CPDT',`TTFP',`PFPL',`SICM',`TTT',`EOPL',`AIMA',`PAIP',`AoP',`PLFA',`CTfP',`book-acronyms' |
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| 15:45:24 | <hpc> | is there a way to list the keys in the where db? |
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| 15:52:10 | <janus> | oops i made it forgot SICP.. sorry. i didn't know that @where+ deletes |
| 15:52:31 | <janus> | i thought it would be like a verbose version of 'where' |
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| 16:49:56 | <Hemmo> | Hello! I can't figure out how to check if X*Y is already in the list in list comprehension. Can it be done?? |
| 16:49:56 | <Hemmo> | multiplyAdjacent xs = [x*y | x <- xs, y <- drop 1 xs, x /= y] |
| 16:50:18 | <Hemmo> | Also I figure there's a way better way to multiply adjacent elements, but this is what I've come up with lol. |
| 16:51:04 | <Hemmo> | So is there a way to do something like; X*Y `notElem` (the list I am constructing with list comprehension) |
| 16:51:06 | <int-e> | > let adjacents xs = zip xs (tail xs) in adjacents [1,4,2,5] |
| 16:51:07 | <lambdabot> | [(1,4),(4,2),(2,5)] |
| 16:51:49 | <Hemmo> | Oh my bad I actually didn't mean adjacents! |
| 16:51:51 | <Hemmo> | I mean |
| 16:51:58 | <int-e> | > let pairs xs = [(x, y) | x:ys <- tails xs, y <- ys] in pairs [1,4,2,5] |
| 16:52:00 | <lambdabot> | [(1,4),(1,2),(1,5),(4,2),(4,5),(2,5)] |
| 16:52:09 | <Hemmo> | If I have [2,3,4] I need to do 2*3 and 2*4 and then 3*4 |
| 16:52:21 | <Hemmo> | So not adjacents, but a product of each two numbers in the list |
| 16:52:23 | <int-e> | one of those is likely what you want... the drop 1 thing isn't natural |
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| 16:52:53 | <Hemmo> | So the end list would be (6, 8 and 12) |
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| 16:54:36 | <Hemmo> | So my drop 1 xs is an attempt to always drop the first one of the second list as I have iterated through the first, but I suppose it doesn't work that way. |
| 16:55:11 | <Hemmo> | Hence I would like to check if X*Y is already in the list so I won't add it again. |
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| 17:00:47 | <mmaruseacph2> | but 3*8 and 4*6 give the same answer |
| 17:01:02 | <mmaruseacph2> | so if you'd check that you'd give wrong answer for [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8] |
| 17:01:40 | <Hemmo> | Uh good point. |
| 17:01:47 | <int-e> | Do you care about the order of the answers? |
| 17:01:47 | <dsal> | tomsmeding: Ah. I should'e tried that. I'd heard of some bits of this, but my brain does automatic eta-reduction so they seem to be the equivalent to me. |
| 17:02:23 | <Hemmo> | Order is not important for me. I'm trying to think of a recursive function now if that's possible. |
| 17:02:31 | <int-e> | > S.fromList . S.toList $ [a*b | a:bs <- tails [3,4,6,8], b <- bs] |
| 17:02:33 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 17:02:33 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match expected type ‘S.Set a’ with actual type ‘[a0]’ |
| 17:02:33 | <lambdabot> | • In the second argument of ‘($)’, namely |
| 17:02:43 | <int-e> | ... from, then to. |
| 17:02:49 | <int-e> | > S.toList . S.fromList $ [a*b | a:bs <- tails [3,4,6,8], b <- bs] |
| 17:02:51 | <lambdabot> | [12,18,24,32,48] |
| 17:03:35 | <int-e> | (There's `nub` but that's less efficient. There's also map head . group . sort which may actually be faster unless there are many duplicates) |
| 17:04:41 | <Hemmo> | Oh I can only use Prelude as well |
| 17:04:43 | <int-e> | Hemmo: Anyway, there's many variations here... you need to come up with a precise specification of what you need. |
| 17:05:10 | <int-e> | ...yuck. |
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| 17:05:17 | <Hemmo> | ;D |
| 17:05:38 | <Hemmo> | A course I am running to get a grip on Haskell ;p |
| 17:05:57 | <Hemmo> | I'm actually trying to solve another problem with this |
| 17:06:03 | <Hemmo> | A function charsProductOf :: [Int] -> [Char] that, given a list of numbers ns, returns all the characters that have a number that is a product of any two numbers in ns. |
| 17:06:21 | <Hemmo> | And my code so far is: charsProductOf xs = [a | (a,b) <- zip ['a'..'z'] [1..26], b `elem` LIST] |
| 17:06:23 | <int-e> | > foldr (\x xs -> x : filter (/= x) xs) [] [1,2,5,1,4,3] |
| 17:06:25 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,5,4,3] |
| 17:06:28 | <int-e> | @src nub |
| 17:06:28 | <lambdabot> | nub = nubBy (==) |
| 17:06:28 | <lambdabot> | --OR |
| 17:06:28 | <lambdabot> | nub l = go l [] |
| 17:06:28 | <lambdabot> | where go [] _ = [] |
| 17:06:28 | <lambdabot> | go (x:xs) ls |
| 17:06:30 | <lambdabot> | | x `elem` ls = go xs ls |
| 17:06:32 | <lambdabot> | | otherwise = x : go xs (x:ls) |
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| 17:08:07 | <Hemmo> | And yeah each character corresponds to a number so a == 1, b == 2 etc. |
| 17:08:31 | <int-e> | Hemmo: well if that's your code, then duplicates in LIST won't hurt |
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| 17:09:03 | <int-e> | (except maybe for performance... but eliminating duplicates won't be free either) |
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| 17:15:06 | <Hemmo> | int-e: thank you! I didn't realise that and my code works now =) |
| 17:15:14 | <Hemmo> | charsProductOf xs = [a | (a,b) <- zip ['a'..'z'] [1..26], b `elem` l] |
| 17:15:14 | <Hemmo> | where l = multiplyAll xs |
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| 17:17:07 | <Hemmo> | I still have a question about this, though. (x <- xs, y <- drop 1 xs) Does this work as such; takes the first element of XS and compares it to all the elements in drop 1 XS? and when done comparing it takes the second element of XS and compares that to drop 2 xs? |
| 17:17:16 | <Hemmo> | Or does drop 1 xs only do it once for the whole list? |
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| 17:19:03 | <int-e> | Hemmo: it only does the drop 1 once |
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| 17:21:20 | <int-e> | (Variables don't change value in Haskell once they've been bound.) |
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| 17:23:31 | <Hemmo> | Thanks |
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| 17:31:45 | <mohy> | Hello, I ask about writing a proposal for "google summer of code" but the recommended channel for asking is on freenode which is apparently dead and there is no #haskell-gsoc channel, what should I do? |
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| 17:35:31 | <maerwald> | is there a way to tell cpphs not to expand some #ifdefs? |
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| 17:37:54 | <jneira[m]> | <mohy> "Hello, I ask about writing a..." <- maybe https://github.com/haskell-org/summer-of-haskell/? |
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| 17:38:12 | <jneira[m]> | there are issues with proposals |
| 17:38:50 | <mohy> | <jneira> Thanks |
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| 19:23:36 | <[itchyjunk]> | dsal, yes i thought that was my issue too |
| 19:23:53 | <[itchyjunk]> | but i went to ghci and tried `1 - 0.5` and got no error so i thought maybe that wasn't the issue |
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| 19:25:48 | <geekosaur> | note that numeric literals (and only literals) can be any numeric type |
| 19:25:50 | <geekosaur> | :t 1 |
| 19:25:51 | <lambdabot> | Num p => p |
| 19:26:02 | <geekosaur> | > 1 - 0.5 |
| 19:26:04 | <lambdabot> | 0.5 |
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| 19:26:23 | <geekosaur> | > (1 :: Integer) - 0.5 |
| 19:26:24 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 19:26:24 | <lambdabot> | • No instance for (Fractional Integer) |
| 19:26:24 | <lambdabot> | arising from the literal ‘0.5’ |
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| 19:28:56 | <[itchyjunk]> | oh it was because 1 was a Num but i can't do that with int? /o\ |
| 19:29:24 | <geekosaur> | Num is not a type |
| 19:29:32 | <geekosaur> | all numeric types have Num instances |
| 19:30:13 | <geekosaur> | :t (-) |
| 19:30:13 | <lambdabot> | Num a => a -> a -> a |
| 19:30:32 | <geekosaur> | has to be the same a throughout, you can't have one of them be Int and the other a Double |
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| 19:37:37 | <[itchyjunk]> | ah |
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| 19:38:29 | <geekosaur> | there are a few operators that allow them to be different but most are the same way |
| 19:38:34 | <geekosaur> | :t (^) |
| 19:38:35 | <lambdabot> | (Integral b, Num a) => a -> b -> a |
| 19:38:37 | <geekosaur> | but |
| 19:38:41 | <geekosaur> | :t (/) |
| 19:38:42 | <lambdabot> | Fractional a => a -> a -> a |
| 19:39:04 | <geekosaur> | noteit requires Fractional instead of simply Num, but it still has to be the same a throughout |
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| 19:50:44 | <[itchyjunk]> | I managed to fix my code. I realized i can just work with Float everywhere. Not sure why i want converting from Int to Float to begin with |
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| 19:56:13 | <geekosaur> | you do realize that Float has limited precision, right? usually you want Double instead |
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| 19:59:54 | <monochrom> | The curse of meaningful names hence "I need a floating-point type, ah Float". |
| 20:00:26 | <monochrom> | Made sense 60 years ago when single precision was really faster than double precision. |
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| 20:00:58 | <geekosaur> | yeh |
| 20:01:06 | <geekosaur> | you beat me to the observation) |
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| 20:03:49 | geekosaur | wonders how far a proposal to rename them Double->Float and Float->HalFloat would get |
| 20:04:30 | <monochrom> | That would then cause friction with people coming from other languages. |
| 20:04:30 | <geekosaur> | or Float->Half |
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| 20:05:26 | <geekosaur> | like the rest of Haskell doesn't? |
| 20:05:31 | <monochrom> | haha |
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| 20:05:39 | <natto> | Double->Sink |
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| 20:06:20 | <monochrom> | HALFloat is when you do 1.0/10.0 and you get "Dave, I can't let you do that" :) |
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| 20:10:05 | <[itchyjunk]> | ah double.. |
| 20:10:30 | <[itchyjunk]> | apparently the variance of [1..10] should be something other than 1.725. Maybe this is due to floats |
| 20:10:36 | [itchyjunk] | replaces float with Double |
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| 20:11:32 | <[itchyjunk]> | ah nope, seems like i have logical error somewhere that i can't find yet |
| 20:11:35 | <monochrom> | You can also use Rational. |
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| 20:14:27 | <[itchyjunk]> | hmm |
| 20:14:45 | <[exa]> | 1.725 is way off even for quarter-floats |
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| 20:18:23 | <[exa]> | monochrom: re "made sense 60 yrs ago"... on intrinsics guide I still read CPI throughput of doubles to be half of floats (per value), 2x required memory bandwidth doesn't help either, and I didn't even look at GPUs |
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| 20:19:50 | <[exa]> | (...so kinda wondering what I'm missing :D ) |
| 20:19:58 | <geekosaur> | the interesting thing there is that these days a machine word is the size of a double, so I'd actually expect a bit of optimization there |
| 20:20:25 | <c_wraith> | memory bandwidth is an important consideration when you are processing large numbers of them |
| 20:20:35 | <[exa]> | machine word "of which part of the machine" |
| 20:20:56 | <c_wraith> | But if you're just using one as an accumulator, memory bandwidth is pretty unimportant |
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| 20:21:26 | <geekosaur> | 60 years ago you were looking at 8/16/maybe 32 biut on the high end for machine words, so double precision floats were really expensive. and you didn't have GPUs, nor fancy caches |
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| 20:24:15 | <[itchyjunk]> | i did one of my functions wrong :D |
| 20:24:22 | <[itchyjunk]> | i broke everything fixing it |
| 20:24:27 | [itchyjunk] | debug hat on |
| 20:24:39 | <[exa]> | yeah like, 60y ago use of doubles was totally nuts given the hardware tbh (AFAIK everyone sensible was using fixed precision then)... but monochrom kinda implied that the difference doesn't exist now, while I think it does, so I want to get corrected :D |
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| 20:25:31 | <geekosaur> | the difference is significantly lesser (note "really faster" — they cost a *lot* more than you'd expect back then) |
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| 20:29:19 | <geekosaur> | in fact I don't see any implication about how expensive they are today, just that it's less expensive than it used to be |
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| 20:30:43 | <[exa]> | okay, I guess I misunderstood then |
| 20:32:45 | <geekosaur> | and in some ways things haven't changed: who else (aside from monochrom who I'm pretty sure has mentioned them before) remembers Transputers, the GPUs of their day? |
| 20:34:34 | <[exa]> | wow eyebrow raiseth |
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| 20:37:36 | <c_wraith> | Like... Transmeta? |
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| 20:40:02 | <monochrom> | GPU and/or having a million numbers in memory/transit, yes you're right. |
| 20:40:42 | <monochrom> | But "I have 10 variables" the saving is negligible. |
| 20:41:30 | <monochrom> | Since 80387 or even earlier, the FPU upcasts single precision to double precision internally. |
| 20:41:51 | <monochrom> | I.e., it is not like a FLOP takes fewer cycles for single precision. |
| 20:42:32 | <monochrom> | Hell, even upcasts both single and double to an internal 80-bit or 128-bit ultra precision internally. |
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| 20:43:47 | <[exa]> | yeah for "I have 10 variables" it doesn't change anything |
| 20:44:29 | <[exa]> | btw do the compilers even use FPU-style math nowadays? I thought it just gets thrown to mmx/sse registers |
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| 20:47:03 | <monochrom> | I don't know. Perhaps I'm outdated on that front too. |
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| 20:48:48 | <hpc> | they do something screwy with floating point numbers |
| 20:48:54 | <geekosaur> | trying to remember, but I think Debian 32-bit still mandates x87 support? but almost all 64-bit CPUs support at least SSE2 |
| 20:49:00 | <hpc> | i remember reading a few months ago that floating point math isn't even deterministic on gpus |
| 20:49:07 | <geekosaur> | they may still upcast internally though |
| 20:49:57 | <geekosaur> | (1st gen Atom and maybe Celeron CPUs don't have SSE2 iirc) |
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| 20:53:30 | <monochrom> | P.S. 60 years ago, floating-point hardware was a scarce luxury item. Most of us were stuck with bloody software emulations! |
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| 20:54:30 | <geekosaur> | heck, even in the 90s linux kernels shipped with software fp emulation for all the folks who didn't have 387 chips |
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| 20:57:57 | <geekosaur> | (or had the low end 486s with patched-out fp) |
| 20:58:04 | <monochrom> | Floating-point ubiquity began at 486 when Intel got transistor density high enough to be feasible to have both CPU and FPU on the same chip. |
| 20:59:24 | <monochrom> | Hence previously FPU had to be a 2nd chip, incentivizing bean counters not buying it because who wants to buy more chips :) |
| 21:00:01 | <geekosaur> | intel still sold 487s as add-ons for aforementioned low end 486es though :) |
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| 21:00:41 | <geekosaur> | (low end 486 = they were selling 486es whose FPUs failed test; 487 was selling 486es whose CPUs failed test) |
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| 21:00:56 | <monochrom> | Yeah, about that. Then Intel really taught us the most fundamental lesson of economics (price is determined by demand only, not even manufacturing cost) and its logical conclusion. |
| 21:01:36 | <monochrom> | 486DX has a FPU. 486SX is the cheaper model that does "not" have a FPU. |
| 21:01:54 | <geekosaur> | yeh, that |
| 21:02:15 | <monochrom> | But the diff of their masks are maybe just a few wires. 486SX has its FPU disabled. Not removed. |
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| 22:30:23 | <maerwald> | I forgot whether we have a community maintained Haskell playground project? |
| 22:31:20 | <sm> | the one on https://www.haskell.org must be I guess ? |
| 22:31:32 | <maerwald> | I mean... with a little more features please |
| 22:31:41 | <maerwald> | like https://play.rust-lang.org/ |
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| 22:32:29 | <sm> | is code world FOSS ? |
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| 22:33:01 | <sm> | seems so: https://github.com/google/codeworld (Google FOSS, at that) |
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| 22:34:12 | <sm> | that is a pretty powerful playground (the haskell variant) |
| 22:34:15 | <maerwald> | afair this isn't really Haskell |
| 22:34:38 | <sm> | https://code.world/haskell is |
| 22:35:26 | <maerwald> | nice |
| 22:35:39 | <maerwald> | seems heavily underadvertised? |
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| 22:36:26 | <sm> | yes, or underappreciated perhaps, Chris Smith has been writing about if for a long time, I've heard podcast episodes on it etc. (one anyway) |
| 22:36:47 | <maerwald> | or maybe can be salvaged into a version for haskell.org and adjusted a bit more to be a proper playground for sharing code snippets and running them |
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| 22:37:11 | <sm> | either way I think you're right, it probably deserves a much higher profile |
| 22:38:02 | <sm> | the podcast talked about some of the pragmatic implementation choices, which were interesting. I think a lot of it is in js, or something |
| 22:38:49 | <sm> | maybe the hosting isn't easy enough for haskell.org. Worth checking |
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| 23:06:12 | <sm> | ooh, stackage ghc 9.0 lts and 9.2 nightly. Thanks stackage maintainers ! |
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| 23:18:11 | <jackdk> | codeworld-api is used in some assignments in ANU's COMP1100, but I haven't seen it in many other places |
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| 23:29:27 | <Axman6> | Something to propose to the Haskell.org committee? I agree it would be fantastic to have an interactive gist like platform. |
| 23:30:10 | <Axman6> | Sadly there doesn't seem to be an IRC channel, so I have no way to contact them :P |
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| 23:33:07 | <jackdk> | I know byorgey was also playing with Haskell on replit and struggled because he pulled in a lot of custom code. Maybe it's good for simpler things? |
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