Logs on 2022-04-04 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:06 | <jackdk> | Yes it is |
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| 00:02:28 | <Axman6> | Well, it is definitely Monday |
| 00:03:11 | <hpc> | all day every day |
| 00:05:07 | <Axman6> | Except for fives of the days |
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| 00:12:46 | <hpc> | four |
| 00:12:54 | <hpc> | there are time zones with greater than 12 hours of adjustment |
| 00:12:59 | <Axman6> | yeah depends how you look at it |
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| 00:13:28 | <Axman6> | and most people don't think about days actually being more than 48 hours long... |
| 00:14:04 | <hpc> | sadly only in the positive direction |
| 00:14:08 | <hpc> | negative still caps out at -12 |
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| 00:15:28 | geekosaur | used to use large negative or positive TZ adjustments to get `date` to calculate times in past or future, before that functionality became standard |
| 00:15:41 | <Axman6> | D: |
| 00:15:58 | <Axman6> | I live in UTC +3600 |
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| 00:19:09 | <jackdk> | hpc: New Zealand during summer time is UTC+13 IIRC |
| 00:19:49 | <hpc> | a couple of islands have +14 |
| 00:20:12 | <hpc> | well, +1400 |
| 00:20:22 | <hpc> | because there's also +530, +545, and a few other weird ones |
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| 00:38:17 | <jackdk> | Eucla |
| 00:38:26 | <abastro[m]> | Wh is 545 |
| 00:38:36 | <abastro[m]> | I get that 30min adjustment is a thing |
| 00:39:03 | <abastro[m]> | Given how countries dislike being identical to each other |
| 00:39:06 | <abastro[m]> | But.. 45? |
| 00:39:17 | <Axman6> | was it Nepal? |
| 00:40:07 | <geekosaur> | there's a couple of :45s and I think one :15 |
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| 00:51:46 | <Axman6> | random thought, given that C++'s implementation of generics involves full monomorphisation, does that mean it's impossible to use non-uniform recursive types (I think that' |
| 00:51:54 | <Axman6> | s what they're called...)? |
| 00:52:12 | <Axman6> | like data Tree a = Node a (Tree (a,a)) (Tree (a,a) | Nil |
| 01:01:17 | <jackdk> | Axman6: you mean polymorphic recursion? |
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| 01:02:14 | <Axman6> | I guess |
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| 01:42:53 | <abastro[m]> | I guess that is impossible |
| 01:43:05 | <abastro[m]> | Tho they might not dare think of such as well |
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| 01:59:42 | <pavonia> | Does stack share installations of the same package versions across different projects? |
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| 02:08:29 | <geekosaur> | yes |
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| 02:08:45 | <geekosaur> | that's oone of its purposes (although modern cabal does so as well) |
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| 02:11:31 | <dons> | do we have a sortOn for partitioning a vector, without tuping the vector elements on the partition key? |
| 02:11:57 | <dons> | maybe I should just stick the elements in a map |
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| 02:22:45 | <pavonia> | geekosaur: And can you also configure it in a way that you have one preferred set of packages for the whole system that is used with ghc/ghci without the need to create a new project? |
| 02:24:20 | <geekosaur> | Not as such, although there is a "global project" that is used if you aren't in another project |
| 02:24:43 | <geekosaur> | I think using it that way is disrecommended |
| 02:25:17 | <geekosaur> | cabal *does* support that, via cabal install --lib, although it'll still prefer a local project's config |
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| 02:26:14 | <pavonia> | It's just that I sometimes don't want to create a full project, just create a new module for scripting and loading various packages from there |
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| 02:34:51 | <geekosaur> | not finding good docs for the global project, sadly. but I think you just find its stack.yaml and add the packages you want to it |
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| 02:41:29 | <janus> | pavonia: do you know about cabal scripts? |
| 02:41:35 | <sm> | yup the global project works fine, ~/.stack/global-project/stack.yaml |
| 02:41:42 | <janus> | with the {- cabal: ... -} syntax |
| 02:41:55 | <pavonia> | I don't |
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| 02:45:14 | <pavonia> | On Windows the installer asks for a place to install stack but all the additional files still seem to get somewhere completely else :S |
| 02:45:43 | <janus> | pavonia: check out the block after "With a script that looks like": https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.6/cabal-commands.html#cabal-v2-run |
| 02:47:45 | <pavonia> | Interesting |
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| 03:00:32 | <abastro[m]> | Global project would be great to have |
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| 03:06:38 | <abastro> | I mean, in cabal |
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| 04:10:35 | <jackdk> | A single consistent global package set was the cause of the infamous "cabal hell", back in the day |
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| 04:38:10 | <Axman6> | dons: now sure I understand the question, but it sounds a little like the magic going on in the discrimination package |
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| 04:44:35 | <dons> | yeah along those lines, actually. groupWith :: Grouping b => (a -> b) -> [a] -> [[a]] |
| 04:44:59 | <Axman6> | are you familliar with the library? |
| 04:45:05 | <dons> | no, hadn't seen it before |
| 04:45:07 | <Axman6> | I'm... too familliar with it |
| 04:45:48 | <Axman6> | I'll find the LambdaJam video for you |
| 04:46:52 | <Axman6> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXDJ5Jcbgk8 <- you could nearly hear people's heads explode in the room, either from having no idea what was going on, or understanding what was going on |
| 04:49:04 | <dons> | nice, hadn't seen that talk |
| 04:49:34 | <dons> | but yes along these lines of avoiding concrete data being generated to do discrimination between elements |
| 04:52:23 | <Axman6> | It's worth knowing what structures it created behind the scenes for performing the grouping, there's often some sort of map or array |
| 04:53:15 | <dons> | Showing diff with 177,902 additions and 308 deletions. |
| 04:53:21 | <dons> | (yes, sickos.gif) |
| 04:53:27 | <Axman6> | D: |
| 04:54:25 | <Axman6> | Hmm, just realised that Grouping would be a useful tool in source code analysis tools for finding references between pieces of code |
| 04:55:05 | <Axman6> | I'd never really thought of using it for longer lived maps like that |
| 04:55:29 | <Axman6> | (annoyingly there's not really a good way to do String/Text keys) |
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| 07:15:26 | <abastro> | Well, global repository (that is not interfering with individual projects, and instead work for e.g. repl) is useful for scripting |
| 07:16:08 | <c_wraith> | it's pretty easy to write scripts that specify their dependencies |
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| 07:30:01 | <prasad> | :q |
| 07:30:03 | <prasad> | quit |
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| 07:55:01 | <abastro> | How can I write such scripts? |
| 07:56:20 | <abastro> | How easy is it |
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| 08:07:48 | ← | hrdl parts (~hrdl@mail.hrdl.eu) () |
| 08:08:10 | <c_wraith> | abastro: https://stackoverflow.com/a/65541020/383200 |
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| 09:15:31 | <abastro> | Well, then you need to enlist the packages you need |
| 09:16:05 | <abastro> | Idk, a few days ago I saw a person ignoring advice about specifying the package like that |
| 09:16:16 | <abastro> | Then simply go for `cabal install --lib` |
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| 10:44:46 | <abastro[m]> | Can I use `traverse` for parsing? |
| 10:45:20 | <abastro[m]> | Esp. I want the inverse of the following:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/b57775ed936fb9eb261649e87109f2f5f9b7995d) |
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| 11:49:14 | <[exa]> | abastro[m]: that may be a bit tricky, at the bare minimum I guess you'd need to express the thing in a more bidirectional way (say prolog) |
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| 11:54:57 | <[exa]> | abastro[m]: this might help tho https://blog.poisson.chat/posts/2017-01-01-monadic-profunctors.html |
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| 11:55:32 | <abastro> | I see, while trying to make a "parser" which runs on list, I thought it was similar to traverse |
| 11:55:37 | <abastro> | Guess I was wrong with that. |
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| 11:56:53 | <abastro> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/NFgWws6U |
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| 11:57:32 | <[exa]> | you can easily run parsecs on lists |
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| 12:00:33 | <tdammers> | some parsers in (mega-)parsec are specific to Char tokens and/or String-like streams, but most work on a wide range of types |
| 12:00:43 | <[exa]> | i.e. for megaparsec there's an `instance Ord a => Stream [a]`, so you may run megaparsecs on lists of anything that can be ordered |
| 12:01:49 | <tdammers> | I have, in fact, written lexer/parser systems with Megaparsec, where the Lexer was something like Parser Text [Lexeme], and the parser something like Parser [Lexeme] Expression |
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| 12:39:21 | <abastro> | It def feels like overkill though. |
| 12:39:38 | <abastro> | Like, importing megaparsec to simply 'parse' a tree, where the problem was not even about parsing.. |
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| 12:59:20 | <tdammers> | it certainly feels that way, but unlike "parsing libraries" in most other languages, *-parsec tends to pull its weight ridiculously early |
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| 13:12:22 | <abastro> | Yea, I wonder why it is |
| 13:12:31 | <abastro> | I am wary of its dependency footprint tbh |
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| 13:19:04 | <[exa]> | abastro[m]: you can implement your own reasonable parser variant in like 50 lines of code, if you don't need the magicks of megaparsec (error messages etc) |
| 13:19:40 | <[exa]> | abastro: anyway methodologically it is _slightly_ better to start from parsec because parsing is usually the "less partial" part of the 2 |
| 13:19:55 | <[exa]> | s/parsec/parsing representation of the problem/ |
| 13:20:15 | <abastro> | Less partial part? |
| 13:20:45 | <abastro> | What are the other parts |
| 13:20:57 | <[exa]> | uh sorry, less total :D like, given a tree you are usually pretty sure you can convert it to a string, but the other way has usually way more chances to fail |
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| 13:26:53 | <Zemyla> | :t wander (\fab -> fmap fold . traverse fab . toList) |
| 13:26:54 | <lambdabot> | (Profunctor.Traversing p, Monoid t1, Foldable t2) => p a t1 -> p (t2 a) t1 |
| 13:27:31 | <tdammers> | also, megaparsec's dependency footprint is relatively light, and should largely overlap with what you would depend on anyway |
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| 13:30:07 | <merijn> | Also, most megaparsec combinators are available standalone |
| 13:30:19 | <abastro> | Oh, yep it has chance to fail |
| 13:30:30 | <maerwald> | just roll your own parser |
| 13:30:35 | <maerwald> | don't be a twat! |
| 13:30:37 | <maerwald> | :P |
| 13:30:39 | <merijn> | @hackage parser-combinators |
| 13:30:39 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parser-combinators |
| 13:30:41 | <abastro> | twat? |
| 13:30:44 | <merijn> | Only depends on base |
| 13:30:54 | <abastro> | Ohh |
| 13:31:35 | <merijn> | Someone refresh my memory, what was edwardk's parser lib? I'm having a blackout on the name |
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| 13:31:50 | <geekosaur> | trifecta? |
| 13:31:55 | <merijn> | Ah! Yes |
| 13:32:03 | <abastro> | Well tbh what I am doing rn is rolling my own parser |
| 13:33:30 | <abastro> | "Parser" https://paste.tomsmeding.com/NFgWws6U |
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| 13:45:57 | <Zemyla> | There's also Earley, if you prefer your parsers with less bad worst-case behavior. |
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| 13:47:32 | <merijn> | If you care about that, just go LALR(1) :p |
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| 13:48:40 | <Zemyla> | It is an LALR parser library, but a combinator-based one as opposed to a special purpose one like happy. |
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| 13:56:05 | <merijn> | If there's an LALR parser library called Earley, that's some false advertising shit :p |
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| 14:27:58 | <abastro> | Wait wha |
| 14:28:00 | <abastro> | Why named so? |
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| 14:28:24 | <c_wraith> | Earley is definitely an Earley parser |
| 14:28:49 | <abastro> | Also when can I began moving to 9.0, last time packages like `memory` prevented me since ssl connection trivias |
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| 14:30:39 | <janus> | abastro: `memory` is now compatible with ghc9.2 |
| 14:30:46 | <c_wraith> | I like using Earley whenever I don't need context sensitivity, just because it lets me write grammars without all the working around parsec-likes lack of backtracking |
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| 14:35:14 | <abastro> | Wow |
| 14:35:25 | <abastro> | I guess I could finally update now.. wait |
| 14:35:28 | <abastro> | HLS. duh |
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| 14:40:14 | <geekosaur> | 9.0.2 is supported, and iirc you can build your own HLS for 9.2.2 although it may be missing a few features |
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| 14:45:58 | <janus> | does GHC compile for both x86_64 and aarch64 when running on Mac? wouldn't that be necessary to support all Mac users? ("universal binaries"?) |
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| 14:47:58 | <geekosaur> | ghc can only handle one arch at a time, and is not even that good at cross-compiling |
| 14:48:23 | <geekosaur> | you would need to compile separately and use some tool to combine the result to make fat binaries |
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| 14:59:02 | <abastro[m]> | Oh actually I am using custom build of HLS |
| 14:59:40 | <abastro[m]> | Its type variables are meh tho |
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| 15:03:51 | <abastro[m]> | Like, it show sth like `aty35_sH` for type variables |
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| 15:50:26 | <janus> | geekosaur: can i quote you in a reply to yairchu: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/69143043/how-to-create-native-arm-executables-on-macos-using-ghc-stack/71670541?noredirect=1#comment126696956_71670541 ? |
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| 16:05:57 | <k``> | In template Haskell, is there a way to take a constraint (type) like `Eq Word` and prove whether it is locally satisfied? |
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| 16:08:03 | <k``> | It seems like `reifyInstances` forces you to split the constraint into `Eq`'s Name and `Word`'s Type. |
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| 16:08:38 | <k``> | But does that even work for MultiparamTypeClasses? |
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| 16:36:07 | <MiguelNegrao> | Hi all . Is there way to convert haskell TypeLit Nats to peano Nats like |
| 16:36:07 | <MiguelNegrao> | data HNat = HZero | HSucc HNat ? |
| 16:36:23 | <MiguelNegrao> | typing 10 succ in a rock sucks (pun intended)... |
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| 16:39:53 | <[exa]> | MiguelNegrao: perhaps this? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fixed-vector-1.2.1.0/docs/Data-Vector-Fixed-Cont.html#t:Peano |
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| 16:40:40 | <MiguelNegrao> | looks promising ! will check if this works ! |
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| 16:41:16 | <[exa]> | not sure if you want to import fixed-vector because of it, but the thing seems sufficiently selfcontained to be just copypasted out of it |
| 16:41:33 | <[exa]> | that said maybe there's a standarder implementation |
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| 16:42:11 | <MiguelNegrao> | yeah, if it works copy paste is fine |
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| 16:43:49 | <MiguelNegrao> | test2 :: HList '[(), ()] |
| 16:43:50 | <MiguelNegrao> | test2 = hReplicate (Proxy :: Proxy (Peano 2)) () |
| 16:43:56 | <MiguelNegrao> | beautiful !!! thanks ! |
| 16:44:17 | <[exa]> | ok wow cool :] |
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| 16:56:49 | <MiguelNegrao> | I was trying a version that works just with type application but I can't quite get it to work... |
| 16:56:54 | <MiguelNegrao> | hReplicate' :: forall (n :: Nat) e (es :: [*]) m. (HReplicateFD m e es, m ~ Peano n) => e -> HList es |
| 16:56:55 | <MiguelNegrao> | hReplicate' = hReplicate (Proxy @m) |
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| 16:57:45 | <MiguelNegrao> | the idea would be to then be able to do hReplicate' @2 () |
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| 17:33:58 | <juri_> | hmm. is there a place where the ULP of prelude's math functions (sqrt, *) is documented? |
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| 17:57:30 | <Zemyla> | Question. inRange (minBound, maxBound) x === True, right? |
| 17:57:57 | <Zemyla> | For all (Bounded a, Ix a)? |
| 17:58:27 | <jle`> | Zemyla: hm, Ix does have laws, but none related to Bounded it seems |
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| 18:00:16 | <jle`> | but that sounds reasonable for most instances |
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| 18:02:28 | <Zemyla> | Ord doesn't have laws relating to Bounded, either. |
| 18:02:33 | <romesrf> | hello! what's the current opinion on Iteratee? the library hasn't been updated in a while and the cabal constraints are kind of tight |
| 18:02:54 | <romesrf> | by "kind of" I mean I got conflicts with 8.10 |
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| 18:03:27 | <geekosaur> | janus: yes although you might want to verify with #ghc |
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| 18:05:32 | <geekosaur> | then again I run chrome straight form google, that one gets updated all the time |
| 18:06:03 | <geekosaur> | (I have to imagine mozilla has something similar going with firefox) |
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| 18:10:22 | <jle`> | romesrf: my general understanding is that iteratee is sort of a transitional library back when we were still figuring out how to do streaming abstractions right, it laid the foundations for a bunch of stuff but isn't really a modernly used library |
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| 18:10:52 | <jle`> | looks like the last version was uploaded in 2014 |
| 18:11:39 | <jle`> | i'm not sure what the current modern thing is but i usually reach for conduit, which is still maintained, but there's also streamly and stuff which are pretty widely used i think |
| 18:11:45 | <geekosaur> | that's my understanding as well |
| 18:11:54 | <geekosaur> | conduit, pipes, streamly |
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| 18:12:46 | <romesrf> | Interesting! out of curiosity, what's the underlying "IO theory" of those libraries? |
| 18:13:12 | <romesrf> | the iteratee paper explains nicely the lazy IO x handle based IO |
| 18:13:12 | <geekosaur> | left-fold iterators were first proposed by oleg kiselyov iirc |
| 18:13:34 | <geekosaur> | *iteratees |
| 18:13:38 | <romesrf> | and proposes iteratee as a better bullet |
| 18:14:01 | <romesrf> | are left-fold iteratees what's being used under the hood by conduit et all? |
| 18:14:08 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 18:14:28 | <romesrf> | I see! I'll dive into the code later on, just one more question: |
| 18:14:28 | <geekosaur> | they're a later generation of the same idea, packaged better/easier to use |
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| 18:14:46 | <romesrf> | Well, that's the answer hahaha. |
| 18:14:49 | <romesrf> | Thank you |
| 18:17:46 | <geekosaur> | they also work around some shortcomings of the iteratee approach (there of course being no magic bullet that avoids *all* problems) |
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| 18:18:10 | <geekosaur> | conduit and pipes originally started out with different approaches and then stole ideas from each other and are roughly the same now |
| 18:18:28 | <geekosaur> | including the same corner cases that require some extra plumbing |
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| 18:19:40 | <geekosaur> | streamly, as I understand it, provides two different backends which cover all use cases, each backend having its own weaknesses. you can choose one for a given stream but can't switch afterward, I think |
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| 18:21:51 | <romesrf> | geekosaur: we should try to get even these short answers on some documentation form.. "Streaming FAQ" ahah |
| 18:22:35 | <romesrf> | geekosaur: I want to get my hands on it but haven't had time to get started / get talking more with Kleidukos |
| 18:22:48 | <romesrf> | which is managing flora etc... |
| 18:23:06 | <romesrf> | and the documentation side from HF if I'm not mistaken |
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| 18:24:43 | <monochrom> | . o O ( You can't switch mid-stream haha ) |
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| 18:34:15 | <juri_> | hmm. where is a good place to discuss floating point error accumulation? |
| 18:35:07 | <juri_> | for instance, if i'm getting the norm of two variables sqrt(a*a+b*b), how many ULPs of the result will the error be? |
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| 18:40:41 | <[exa]> | juri_: "depends" |
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| 18:43:07 | <juri_> | [exa]: yeah, there's my problem. :) |
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| 18:44:10 | <[exa]> | juri_: in your case there isn't too much actual data, so you should be easily able to guess the error position more or less algebraically (imagine converting each variable through something like `\a -> a + 1e-6*a*sigma` and counting the amount of `sigma` in the result) |
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| 18:47:47 | <juri_> | hmm. i don't follow. which is no surprise. :) |
| 18:47:55 | <[exa]> | I guess there might be a problem with large scale difference and `a >>>> b` because "b disappears after squaring", if you want to prevent that the usual technique is to guess the "scale" and split the numbers to large/small halves that don't combine until absolutely necessary |
| 18:50:04 | <[exa]> | this may help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahan_summation_algorithm |
| 18:52:58 | <juri_> | yeah, i figgured scale differences would be trouble. |
| 18:54:11 | <[exa]> | what kind of error are you getting? the small/big one? |
| 18:55:42 | <tomsmeding> | juri_: pretty sure [exa] is referring to doing this: sqrt((a+εa)*(a+εa) + (b+εb)*(b+εb)) = sqrt(a^2 + 2εa + (εa)^2 + b^2 + 2εb + (εb)^2) |
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| 18:55:48 | <juri_> | uh-oh. so, what i'm doing is casting a line at a line segment, in 2DPGA. I want to know how to size the distanceBetween line1 line2endpoint < fuzzyamount, so i know when i hit an endpoint. |
| 18:57:03 | <tomsmeding> | which is approximately linear in εa and εb, hence...? I don't actually know how to do this analysis lol |
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| 18:58:27 | <juri_> | in my intersection gathering function, i perform exactly 3 multiplies, so that's easy to sum the ulp of. but, i don't know what to do with sqrt(a*a+b*b). |
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| 18:59:39 | <tomsmeding> | can't you do this with interval analysis? Like, if you know the accuracy of a function with type Double^n -> Double, you should be able to rewrite it to Interval^n -> Interval, where Interval = (Double, Double) |
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| 19:02:19 | <juri_> | I think that's a bit lost on me. i'm no rocket scientist here. :) |
| 19:03:05 | <tomsmeding> | you know what an ULP is :') |
| 19:03:08 | <tomsmeding> | you know more than I do |
| 19:03:18 | <juri_> | only after a week of pulling my hair out. :) |
| 19:03:22 | <tomsmeding> | :D |
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| 19:03:30 | <juri_> | hmm. |
| 19:03:36 | <tomsmeding> | juri_: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/exact-real |
| 19:03:39 | <juri_> | i think i may be closer to an answer. |
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| 19:04:19 | <juri_> | Ugh. implemented a long float library. now i just want a measure to know when to use it, and when the answer i'm going to get with a double is 'good enough'. |
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| 19:06:14 | <juri_> | hmm. i wonder if the answer i'm looking for is 'the ULP of a + the ulp of b + the ulp of a*a + the ulp of b*b + the ulp of a*a+b*b, plus pray a lot' |
| 19:07:11 | <juri_> | supposedly, most x86 implementations have a ulp of less than 0.5 of the least significant digit.. |
| 19:09:13 | <tomsmeding> | juri_: my point about intervals is the following. Suppose you have some `f :: Double -> Double`, e.g. `f x = x*x`. Suppose you also know the accuracy of f, i.e. you can write some function `g :: ExactReal -> ExactReal` such that `f x` is at most `g x` from the real answer. Then if `f` is monotonic, then you know that for an input `x` that is somewhere in the range [a, b] for ExactReals a and b, |
| 19:09:13 | <tomsmeding> | then `f x` will be somewhere in the range [f a - g a, f b + g b]. Hence you've now lifted f to `f' :: (ExactReal, ExactReal) -> (ExactReal, ExactReal)`, giving the interval where the output will be given the interval where the input is |
| 19:09:34 | <tomsmeding> | (that [f a - g a, f b + g b] should be flipped if `f` is decreasing instead of increasing) |
| 19:09:57 | <tomsmeding> | now extend this to two-argument functions :p |
| 19:10:32 | <tomsmeding> | and then feed the lifted function for your entire computation an interval [a, a], and look at how large the output interval is |
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| 19:11:01 | <tomsmeding> | iirc this is "interval arithmetic" |
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| 19:26:24 | <juri_> | at times like this i really wish the herbie GHC plugin was still a thing. |
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| 19:27:22 | <tomsmeding> | O.o that is one beast of a plugin |
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| 19:27:56 | <juri_> | yeah, looking at it now, i wonder if it could be implemented extenally, with HIE. |
| 19:28:30 | <tomsmeding> | but that wouldn't even help you really, right? |
| 19:28:43 | <tomsmeding> | because while it might make the computations more stable, it won't tell how exactly how stable the result is |
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| 19:29:06 | juri_ | nods. |
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| 20:32:12 | <lechner> | Hi, do people still use hugs? |
| 20:32:22 | <napping> | Is there any way to use optimization settings or pragmas to get GHC to fully simplify application of a recursive function to term explicitly built up from constructor |
| 20:32:53 | <geekosaur> | lechner, apparently it's still used in some intro to haskell sources |
| 20:33:09 | <geekosaur> | *courses |
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| 20:33:30 | <napping> | like, if eval (Add x y) = eval x + eval y; eval (Lit n) = n, could I get a function like test n = eval (Add (Add (Lit n) (Lit n)) (Lit 2)) to optimize the body down to (x+x)+2? |
| 20:34:15 | <napping> | SpecConstr only seems to want to do one layer of constructor (or the optimization isn't recursively applied to the generated specializations) |
| 20:34:49 | <napping> | -fliberate-case sounds possibly relevant but I haven't got it to do anything useful |
| 20:35:08 | <lechner> | geekosaur: thanks! |
| 20:35:30 | <lechner> | also, does ghcjs have a bright future? |
| 20:35:55 | <napping> | (also tried to somehow put in a SPEC as mentioned in the user's guide and it didn't work, but I didn't find documentation on the feature) |
| 20:36:08 | <geekosaur> | it has the advantages ofbeing easy to install and highly portable. the disadvantage is it doesn't work with modern Haskell software, but for an intro course that's not especially relevant |
| 20:36:12 | <napping> | Perhaps RULES? |
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| 20:41:04 | <lechner> | geekosaur: Thanks! Hugs is still in Debian, but I think ghcjs was dropped |
| 20:42:26 | <geekosaur> | ghcjs's status is at best questionable, but I thinkit doesn't matter much as official js and wasm backends are tentatively scheduled for 9.6 |
| 20:42:43 | <lechner> | i see |
| 20:43:02 | <lechner> | thank you so much! |
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| 20:46:28 | <c_wraith> | huh. so I had an idea - I wanted to create GADT where each constructor has a type level tag, so you can specify an individual constructor by the type. but I wanted to see if I could use DataKinds and PolyKinds to promote the constructor itself to use as the type level tag, too. |
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| 20:46:53 | <c_wraith> | but... GHC was unhappy with that brand of recursion. |
| 20:47:05 | <c_wraith> | very sadness. |
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| 21:03:33 | <mcgroin> | if i define my operator like this: x :| f = f x, does it automatically mean it's infix? |
| 21:03:51 | <mcgroin> | infixl |
| 21:05:30 | <monochrom> | Yes. But don't name it :| |
| 21:05:50 | <tomsmeding> | should name it :> because then it's happier |
| 21:05:54 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 21:06:26 | <monochrom> | But no, colon is reserved for infix data constructors, e.g., data M = Int :| Int |
| 21:06:49 | <mcgroin> | colon is reserved ? |
| 21:07:03 | <tomsmeding> | but yeah two issues with that: 1. :| is already taken by Data.List.NonEmpty (not terribly important perhaps), but 2. ':' is the capital letter of symbols: Foo can only be a type or data constructor, and similarly :| can only be a type or data constuctor |
| 21:07:06 | <tomsmeding> | : is the only "capital symbol" |
| 21:07:16 | <monochrom> | No, that is not the reserved-word notion. |
| 21:07:36 | <tomsmeding> | % data MyThing = Int :& Bool deriving (Show) |
| 21:07:36 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
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| 21:07:39 | <tomsmeding> | % 3 :& False |
| 21:07:39 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: 3 :& False |
| 21:07:48 | <tomsmeding> | see? not reserved, it just needs to be a data constructor |
| 21:08:03 | <monochrom> | You cannot name your function "Myfunc", it has to be "myfunc", M is for data constructors, and these still don't imply that M is reserved. |
| 21:08:03 | <tomsmeding> | % let a :&& b = a + b |
| 21:08:03 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:27:7: error:; Not in scope: data constructor `:&&'; Perhaps you meant one of these: `:&' (line 25), variable `&&' (imported from Prelude), variable `&&&' (imported from Control.Arrow) |
| 21:08:12 | <tomsmeding> | note the "data constructor `:&&'" |
| 21:08:51 | <tomsmeding> | % let a !&& b = a + b |
| 21:08:51 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 21:08:54 | <tomsmeding> | % 3 !&& 4 |
| 21:08:54 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: 7 |
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| 21:09:43 | <monochrom> | Infix camel case: ?+:--:>> |
| 21:10:07 | <tomsmeding> | ._. |
| 21:10:11 | <mcgroin> | i see, so : is considered as a capital letter |
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| 22:09:22 | <Guest27> | Is there any Monad like Maybe that short-circuits on success rather than failure? |
| 22:09:46 | <geekosaur> | perhaps you want asum? |
| 22:10:01 | <Guest27> | :t asum |
| 22:10:03 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a |
| 22:10:28 | <geekosaur> | > asum [Nothing, Just 5, Nothing, Just 12] |
| 22:10:29 | <lambdabot> | Just 5 |
| 22:10:41 | <Guest27> | That's exactly what I want, thanks |
| 22:10:51 | <jackdk> | mcgroin: Yes, colons and capitals begin constructors. (Haskell 98 Report, section 2.4) |
| 22:11:39 | <Guest27> | What exactly is Alternative? |
| 22:11:44 | <mcgroin> | jackdk: thx for the reference |
| 22:11:45 | <monochrom> | If you just have 2 operands, then it's x <|> y, i.e., asum [x, y] = x <|> y |
| 22:12:14 | <monochrom> | Alternative is the subclass of Applicative that adds "empty" and "<|>". |
| 22:12:43 | <monochrom> | Its behaviour for Maybe is short-circuiting upon Just. |
| 22:12:44 | <geekosaur> | it's Applicative over a Monoid, meaning it can deal with a notion of "empty" |
| 22:12:54 | <Guest27> | Ohh, it's like the Parsec <|> |
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| 22:13:23 | <monochrom> | Yes, parsec was its main inspiration, as can be seen from the names of the methods :) |
| 22:14:53 | <redb> | Hey all, noob here. I'm writing tests for a compiler I'm writing in Haskell, and I'd like some of my test cases to live in files rather than in the test file itself. My idea was to make a list of such files, add the parsed data to a dict keyed on those file names, and then use that dict while creating my Spec for testing. Here was my attempt: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hdf3Re04 (cobbled from example). My |
| 22:14:59 | <redb> | problem is I'm not sure how to get the list of file names down to a single IO, which will return the filled in (name, data) tuples I can then use to make a dict (Map). |
| 22:18:40 | <geekosaur> | you may like sequence |
| 22:19:01 | <geekosaur> | :t sequence |
| 22:19:02 | <lambdabot> | (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a) |
| 22:19:14 | <geekosaur> | % :t sequence @[] |
| 22:19:14 | <yahb> | geekosaur: Monad m => [m a] -> m [a] |
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| 22:21:36 | <hpc> | @src Const |
| 22:21:37 | <lambdabot> | Source not found. Abort, Retry, Panic? |
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| 22:22:11 | <hpc> | Guest27: answering the original question because it's interesting, there's also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.1.0/docs/Control-Applicative.html#t:Const |
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| 22:36:35 | <Inst> | yo |
| 22:36:50 | <geekosaur> | yes? |
| 22:36:52 | <Inst> | if I started a lib collection on Hackage, alongside someone tutoring me Haskell |
| 22:36:56 | <Inst> | called n_n, would anyone object? |
| 22:37:20 | <Inst> | n_n -> Naga Nyaya, or "Rule of Snakes", an indirect reference to Rule of Fish (Matsya Nyaya) in Hindu culture, which refers to big fish eating medium fish eating small fish |
| 22:37:37 | <Inst> | the implicit meaning is Python-eater, or rather, it's intended to be a set of educational libraries |
| 22:38:18 | <Inst> | like, for instance, a self-maintained implementation of CAPI FFI for tinyfiledialogs |
| 22:38:26 | <Inst> | various GUI tools, and so on |
| 22:38:37 | <geekosaur> | I doubt anyone would complain |
| 22:38:56 | <Inst> | but no one would contribute either, right? |
| 22:39:21 | <Inst> | n_n -> cutesy name hiding something ambitious and threatening |
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| 22:39:56 | <geekosaur> | that's up to you. contributions would typically be via a github (or gitlab or darcsden or etc.) repo |
| 22:40:09 | <Inst> | yeah, we'll hopefully work on it |
| 22:40:27 | <geekosaur> | if you invite contributions in the README, you may well get them. biggest problem might be discoverability with a "cutesy" name |
| 22:40:40 | <Inst> | it's an umbrella |
| 22:42:29 | Wstfgl0 | is now known as Me-me |
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| 22:51:16 | <sm> | -1 on that package name, it's too opaque so makes hackage less useful |
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| 23:33:09 | <jackdk> | Umbrella packages are often not what you want, because (to paraphrase Joe Armstrong) you wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla to hold the banana and the entire jungle too |
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| 23:34:05 | <monochrom> | Every tree is an umbrella in a jungle >:) |
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| 23:45:24 | <dons> | moin moin |
| 23:45:51 | <geekosaur> | o/ |
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| 23:56:00 | <redb> | What's the equivalent of *> that passes the value rather than discarding it? |
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| 23:56:16 | <dolio> | Passes which value? |
| 23:56:33 | <redb> | Ah, I think it's >>= |
| 23:56:43 | <dons> | :) |
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| 23:56:51 | <dons> | :t (>>=) |
| 23:56:52 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b |
| 23:56:52 | <dolio> | Oh, that's what you mean. |
| 23:57:02 | <dons> | :t (*>) |
| 23:57:03 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f b |
| 23:57:32 | <dons> | good intuition, if you're dealing with the specific value from a computation, you're probably doing something monadic, with bind (>>=) |
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| 23:57:49 | <dons> | if its just composition, its more likely something Applicative or Functor-ish. which don't switch on the specific value. |
| 23:59:15 | <hpc> | the "you could have invented monads" prophecy is once again fulfilled |
| 23:59:29 | <dons> | dude you totally just invented monads |
All times are in UTC on 2022-04-04.