Logs on 2022-04-06 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:15:35 | <Henson> | jackdk: I just realized that my type is actually more like f :: [a] -> b a, so I don't think the profunctor idea will work. |
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| 00:16:05 | <jackdk> | Henson: What is the `g` you are trying to construct again? |
| 00:16:43 | <Henson> | jackdk: in this case it would be g :: [(a,c)] -> b (a,c) |
| 00:17:26 | <jackdk> | Henson: how do you propose to write that? Do you have some way of combining the `c`s (e.g., `Monoid` instance)? |
| 00:17:27 | <Henson> | jackdk: I can probably just modify the a type to add an additional record that doesn't get used at all in the function, but holds the c data |
| 00:18:31 | <Henson> | jackdk: I really just need to associate some c data with the a's that doesn't get used at all in the function, but just "follows" the a data around and can be unbundled at the end |
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| 00:19:34 | <jackdk> | Henson: right, but unless your `b` is also something containeresque, I read that as "you have several (a,c)" pairs coming in, and you're producing a single "c" at the end. Do you perhaps want `g :: [(a, c)] -> (b a, c)`? |
| 00:19:55 | <jackdk> | Henson: correction: `g :: [(a, c)] -> (b a, [c])` |
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| 00:21:00 | <Henson> | jackdk: yes, the b is containereque. What I really have is 3D points going into a trajectory-detection algorithm. The [a] are the 3D points going in, and the b coming out is a trajectory that contains within it some of the 3D points passed in that ended up becoming a trajectory |
| 00:21:47 | <Henson> | jackdk: I'd like to simply bundle with the 3D points some extra meta-data which isn't used at all in the trajectory detection, but I would like it to appear bundled with the 3D points that did end up making it into the trajectory, so I can extract that meta-data |
| 00:22:19 | <Henson> | that's why the trajectory type is "b a" because it contains within it items of type "a". |
| 00:23:00 | <Axman6> | dons: Would love to hear more details of the optimisation work, being stuck here working on fixing bugs in Scala and Daml has me craving fun work X) |
| 00:23:38 | <Axman6> | d34df00d: that was going to be my suggestion, that should work fine |
| 00:25:46 | <dons> | its a good puzzle. 1G text file , each line is a json object. about 10M lines. each line has a unique , ascending int64 key. each object contains references to some previous lines via their key, forming graph edges and vertices. have to process file flattening certain subgraphs into tuples, essentially, (V1, E2, V2, E3, V4) . |
| 00:26:24 | <jackdk> | Henson: I would probably parameterise your `f` over some function that select the coordinate, like `f :: (x -> point) -> [x] -> b x` and provide a convenience wrapper that's `f id` for when you're processing points directly |
| 00:27:10 | <dons> | so a big foldM over chunks of the input, letting me proecss say, 50M of data at a time. ,then compose the output state into a final summary to be written out |
| 00:27:30 | <Axman6> | dons: do you know where the memory is curing currently? using something like waargonaut and the succinct structer parser should help a lot there |
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| 00:27:59 | <dons> | a few G are going into just parsing the data. so i'm starting parsing and consuming chunks |
| 00:28:01 | <Axman6> | curing -> going* |
| 00:28:12 | <dons> | then will try folding the graph flattening computation over the parsed pieces. |
| 00:28:48 | <dons> | (what i'm doing is summarizing all variable definitions and their use sites, over a large repo, about 10M variables , 3k files) |
| 00:28:56 | <dons> | not actually that large, but a fairly large single git repo |
| 00:29:06 | <Henson> | jackdk: ok, thanks for the suggestion. I was considering making a type class that can extract points from something, which is pretty much equivalent to your idea as the type class function would be your (x -> point) function. |
| 00:29:07 | <Axman6> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/waargonaut, based on https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hw-json-standard-cursor could mean the JSON parsing takes basically no memory |
| 00:29:29 | <jackdk> | Henson: I thought about that too, but I dislike typeclasses without laws |
| 00:29:33 | <dons> | ncie |
| 00:30:36 | <Axman6> | the really nice thing about that second package as that you can |
| 00:30:47 | <Henson> | jackdk: ok |
| 00:30:48 | <Axman6> | create the index ahead of time and reuse itr |
| 00:31:04 | <Henson> | gotta run, thanks for the help! |
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| 00:44:42 | <abastro[m]> | O(1) space json parsing? |
| 00:46:05 | <Axman6> | no. but indices which take up well over an order of magnitude less space than the jsonm data, which gives IIRC O(1) indexing into the JSON file itself |
| 00:47:22 | <Axman6> | https://github.com/haskell-works/hw-json has a bit more info about the package |
| 00:47:28 | <jackdk> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA0Z7_4J7u8 |
| 00:48:40 | <Axman6> | I should rewatch that |
| 00:50:59 | <Axman6> | gonna be doing lots of compiling today, so plenty of time to watch |
| 00:51:42 | <Axman6> | Really wish this was filmed on a higher quality potato |
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| 00:56:23 | <abastro[m]> | Interesting |
| 00:56:31 | <jackdk> | It's like the one Ed talk which doesn't have a good recording anywhere =| |
| 00:56:37 | <abastro[m]> | Who is EdKmett hm |
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| 00:57:10 | <geekosaur> | the man, the myth, the legend |
| 00:58:28 | <abastro[m]> | ?legend? |
| 00:58:28 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 00:58:47 | <Axman6> | I've mat Ed many times, and am still not sure he truly exists |
| 00:59:10 | <abastro[m]> | Wah |
| 00:59:19 | <abastro[m]> | Why legend tho |
| 00:59:35 | <jackdk> | https://hackage.haskell.org/user/EdwardKmett |
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| 00:59:48 | <Axman6> | Probably one of the most prolific Haskellers around. Author of Lens, and... lots and lots of other very useful things |
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| 01:00:41 | <abastro[m]> | I see |
| 01:00:51 | <abastro[m]> | <del>Lens useful tho</del> |
| 01:01:41 | <abastro[m]> | Is EdKmett hired by some company? |
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| 01:24:33 | <Axman6> | you can ask edwardk yourself if you like |
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| 01:33:12 | <abastro[m]> | Oh.. okay maybe I should not |
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| 02:49:19 | <dons> | do we have a recommended term code progress bar lib? |
| 02:49:32 | <dons> | i want to show some nice spinny things |
| 02:51:18 | <int-e> | 🨄 |
| 02:51:18 | <int-e> | 🩇🩃🨲🨮🨝🨙🨈🨄 |
| 02:51:27 | <dons> | yeah! |
| 02:52:17 | <int-e> | (Not sure why that pasted two lines, but whatever. Silliest spinning things I know of.) |
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| 03:28:53 | <InstX1_> | question |
| 03:28:54 | InstX1_ | is now known as Inst |
| 03:28:58 | <Inst> | are interpreters impossible |
| 03:29:18 | <Inst> | to FFI into reliably? |
| 03:29:25 | <Inst> | or are they simply built not to be FFI-ed into reliably? |
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| 03:29:51 | <Inst> | say if I had something called ghcv, which is a ghci variant designed to be called by compiled code |
| 03:30:12 | <Inst> | could it exist? |
| 03:31:39 | <Inst> | basically, the idea is that something like ghcv would be useful to create julia-style multiple dispatch without large binaries in haskell, or alternately enable homoiconicity |
| 03:32:00 | <Inst> | and if it's stable and possible to call via FFI, that isn't just for Haskell, but also for other compiled languages |
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| 03:33:45 | <Cale> | Have you seen https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hint ? |
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| 03:46:16 | <Inst> | i'll look it up |
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| 04:04:23 | <sm> | dons, maybe https://hackage.haskell.org/package/terminal-progress-bar ? see also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/concurrent-output |
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| 04:13:10 | <Inst> | nice @ cale |
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| 07:31:02 | <maerwald> | dons: roll your own |
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| 07:31:26 | <maerwald> | I have rather mixed experience with exising libs (including concurrent-output) |
| 07:31:37 | <maerwald> | terminal escape codes are actually easy |
| 07:31:49 | <[exa]> | (looking at the scrollback, the rolling utf horse is _vastly_ underrated) |
| 07:32:39 | <Axman6> | If that was int-e's comment, it didn't show up for me :'( |
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| 07:34:28 | <geekosaur> | I just got a bunch of boxes :( |
| 07:36:30 | <dons> | i think to do it properly its almost a ui library. definitely concurrent, some queue of events you can push to cheaply. |
| 07:36:48 | <dons> | probably should just port https://crates.io/crates/indicatif |
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| 07:38:11 | <dons> | it doesn't look enormous. https://github.com/console-rs/indicatif/blob/main/src/style.rs |
| 07:39:59 | <abastro> | Concurrent? |
| 07:40:43 | <dons> | i wouldn't want to block my main computation emitting progress wiggles |
| 07:40:49 | <dons> | so there's another thread involved somewhere there |
| 07:40:57 | <abastro> | Hmm |
| 07:41:10 | <Axman6> | dons: if it's good enough for node.js, it's good enough for us! |
| 07:41:11 | <abastro> | I guess progress bar UI library would be great |
| 07:41:20 | <abastro> | Tho rolling your own won't also be that expensive |
| 07:41:37 | <Axman6> | (Re: node running literally twice as fast when you turned off the progress indicator on the command line) |
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| 07:41:46 | <dons> | haha |
| 07:41:50 | <dons> | i didn't know that |
| 07:42:00 | <Axman6> | yeah it was pretty amazing, classic noce |
| 07:42:02 | <dons> | yeah but threads are expensive in node land. cheap for us ;) |
| 07:42:03 | <Axman6> | node* |
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| 07:43:11 | <dons> | well i made my thing massively better. it can process 10M facts in about 3G of ram now (was >16G). takes 2 mins to analyze instead of 15-20 |
| 07:43:12 | <Axman6> | https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/11283 |
| 07:43:28 | <Axman6> | (npm, not node, but it's all a mess so they all get the blame) |
| 07:43:41 | <dons> | just classic fold-style IO. process input in lazy bytestring chunks, parse each chunk, and generate output, in one pass. |
| 07:43:48 | <Axman6> | nice! I assume you can't share the code? |
| 07:43:51 | <dons> | all in a runStateT that gathers outptu state along the way |
| 07:44:03 | <dons> | oh will put it up shortly . sec.. its open |
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| 07:44:51 | <maerwald> | dons: https://www.lihaoyi.com/post/BuildyourownCommandLinewithANSIescapecodes.html#progress-indicator |
| 07:44:55 | <dons> | some big savings batching Aeson writes to file into 1M object chunks |
| 07:45:01 | <maerwald> | really, you don't need a library for that |
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| 07:46:13 | <maerwald> | after I dropped the use of concurrent-output and used escape codes directly, I had a lot less bugs |
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| 08:01:43 | <dons> | this was the gist of it https://github.com/donsbot/Glean/commit/411482ce79b40503859407d9c6e4cb37e594b1b4?diff=split#diff-b36a7f4acf9e9b3190cd736b9af865f1fe245045ffcdac0dcb876837de336bd0R141 |
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| 11:14:51 | <razetime> | janus: thanks for the help. I think I will send a message on discourse now. |
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| 11:19:20 | <razetime> | i am unable to privately message people on the haskell discourse website. Is there some verification needed? |
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| 11:52:18 | <absence> | does "asum . fmap f" have a good name, similar to traverse for "sequenceA . fmap f"? |
| 11:53:01 | <hpc> | :t \f -> asum . fmap f |
| 11:53:03 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Alternative f, Functor t) => (a1 -> f a2) -> t a1 -> f a2 |
| 11:54:19 | <hpc> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Agda-2.6.2.2/docs/Agda-Utils-Applicative.html#v:foldMapA seems to be an exact match |
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| 11:54:57 | <hpc> | https://hoogle.haskell.org/?hoogle=foldMapA -- looks like it's in a few other packages |
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| 11:56:00 | <absence> | hpc: oh nice, thanks! |
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| 12:56:11 | <Guest89> | Hi, if have something of 'type ParsedSource = Located (HsModule GhcPs)' how do i access the 'HsModule'? |
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| 13:00:05 | <boxscape> | Guest89: pattern match on `L l themodule` |
| 13:00:53 | <boxscape> | Guest89: alternatively, you should be able to use `unLoc` I think |
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| 13:01:43 | <boxscape> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-9.2.1/docs/GHC.html#v:unLoc |
| 13:09:00 | <Guest89> | Mh.. it knows neither `L` nor `unLoc`. Do I need to tell it to import them explicit? Or is my ghc too old (8.10.7)? |
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| 13:11:13 | <boxscape> | Guest89: seems to exist in that version as well (docs for 8.10.7: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-8.10.7/docs/GHC.html#t:GenLocated). You do need to `import GHC`, though. |
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| 13:18:43 | <Guest89> | Ah, okay. That did the trick. Thanks a lot. Regarding the different ghc version though: How common/okay is it to run outdated versions? Or should I update immediately? |
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| 13:20:05 | <merijn> | Guest89: I tend to use the second to last or third to last usually :p |
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| 13:20:37 | <merijn> | Guest89: Only reasons to upgrade sooner are: 1) you need a newly implemented feature only in the latest version or 2) you need a bugfix only in the latest version |
| 13:20:40 | <geekosaur> | 8.10.7is still very widely used |
| 13:21:16 | <Guest89> | Alright, thanks! |
| 13:21:48 | <boxscape> | Guest89: with the GHC API which you're using here in particular though, things might be changing faster than with some other things, e.g. the module hierarchy of the GHC API changed in I think 9.0 so a lot of modules have different names |
| 13:22:29 | <boxscape> | (GHC.Plugins instead of GhcPlugins, as an example) |
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| 13:25:22 | <Guest89> | boxscape: So if I were to use ghc to parse Haskell projects from GitHub, running an outdated version could lead to errors? |
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| 13:26:15 | <boxscape> | though that doesn't mean that you can't use older versions, just that if you use the GHC API, you need to be ready to accept that newer GHC version might have changed the API |
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| 13:27:34 | <boxscape> | Guest89: I wouldn't expect that unless the haskell projects use very new features. But if you want to compile your parsing project in a newer GHC version than you originally developed it in, you might have to change some things |
| 13:30:05 | <boxscape> | Guest89: though the module renaming I mentioned is probably the biggest offender there |
| 13:32:17 | <janus> | razetime: you may need a certain amount of experience-points |
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| 13:32:28 | <razetime> | experience-points? |
| 13:32:28 | <janus> | razetime: what about using e-mail instead? |
| 13:32:36 | <razetime> | i did use email :) |
| 13:32:41 | <janus> | razetime: yes, discourse has some kind of leveling system, i think |
| 13:32:49 | <razetime> | ah figures |
| 13:32:51 | <janus> | i don't remember what they call it, may not be experience-points |
| 13:32:52 | <boxscape> | Guest89: there's also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-lib which lets you use a fixed version of the GHC API regardless of the GHC version you're using |
| 13:33:07 | <boxscape> | (I haven't used it though) |
| 13:33:08 | <boxscape> | so then these concerns don't really apply anymore |
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| 13:38:52 | <Guest89> | boxscape: ah, I see sounds interesting. Since I am already using other Libs for parsing which have their own GHC version they depend on, that shouldn't do much in my case though should it? |
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| 13:42:18 | <boxscape> | Guest89: are you saying those libs make use of the GHC API for parsing? |
| 13:42:25 | <boxscape> | If so then yeah, ghc-lib probably is not an option here |
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| 13:45:50 | <Guest89> | boxscape: Yes, as far as I understand they do. Although the errors could also stem from the lib being semi abandoned or some other error on my part. |
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| 14:05:36 | <absence> | other than forgetting the HasCallStack constraint, is there anything that could cause "getCallStack callStack" to return an empty list? |
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| 14:36:02 | <libertyprime> | hey guys. I did a write up on my thoughts for adding a new context to haskell syntax maybe in the form of a language extension. thoughts? https://semiosis.github.io/posts/purity-and-reality/ |
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| 14:44:40 | <geekosaur> | tempted to point to CPT invariance |
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| 14:45:40 | <geekosaur> | in particular you can see an antiparticle as a particle moving backwards in time, and everything still works |
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| 14:53:37 | <libertyprime> | I'll have to add CPT symmetry to that list :P |
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| 17:00:18 | <shapr> | acowley: hey, are you around for questions about org-mode + nixos + haskell? |
| 17:04:19 | <shapr> | acowley: I'm following https://www.arcadianvisions.com/2018/org-nix-direnv.html but I can't figure out how to get packages in scope for runhaskell |
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| 18:31:37 | <seydar> | test |
| 18:31:50 | <Henson> | say I'm defining a helper function that is within another function and I'm also adding a type signature of the helper function. If the parent function has some type "Foo a" and the prototype for the helper function also has "Foo a" I get an error about "Couldn't match type ‘a1’ with ‘a’" and it has a conflict with the inner "a" and the outer "a. How can I resolve this kind of problem? |
| 18:33:05 | <monochrom> | Two things, do both. Turn on ScopedTypeVariables. In the outer type sig, add "forall a." |
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| 18:33:47 | <Henson> | monochrom: ok, thank you! |
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| 21:46:01 | <lyxia> | Do the MonadFix laws imply mfix (const t) = t ? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.16.0.0/docs/Control-Monad-Fix.html |
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| 21:59:47 | <monochrom> | Interesting. Nice exercise. Yes with much meaningless equational reasoning :) |
| 22:00:06 | <monochrom> | I'll post my proof paste in a moment. |
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| 22:02:25 | <monochrom> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/m6GansIE |
| 22:04:18 | <monochrom> | I should put it on an exam and devastate the whole class! |
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| 22:30:18 | <maerwald[m]> | You like to torment students, don't you? ; ) |
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| 22:35:26 | <monochrom> | The class average is always too high, I always look for upping the game! |
| 22:36:57 | <hpc> | it's like configuring a sound system, you get the full range of the class > 0 and < 100 (non-inclusive), and then adjust the curve :D |
| 22:37:42 | <maerwald[m]> | So ppl get punished for being above average? |
| 22:39:32 | <hpc> | so you find the limit of everyone's knowledge and have an accurate basis to decide the curve from |
| 22:39:40 | <hpc> | maybe "punishing", maybe "rewarding" |
| 22:40:01 | <hpc> | if almost everyone is getting 100s, maybe the class is too easy |
| 22:40:18 | <hpc> | and you can go through the concepts faster, or get more advanced |
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| 22:41:11 | <maerwald[m]> | Maybe they just want to be done so they can go home and you pour more stuff at them :D |
| 22:41:50 | <maerwald[m]> | They'll lern that too and then pretend to be average |
| 22:42:53 | <monochrom> | Ppl get punished. Period. >:) |
| 22:42:56 | <hpc> | if they want to be lazy that's on them |
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| 22:44:05 | <maerwald[m]> | They're usually lazy, because that allows fusing homework close before the class |
| 22:44:54 | <abastro[m]> | Well, Haskell has laziness so |
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| 22:45:13 | <hpc> | strictly speaking, haskell is just non-strict :P |
| 22:45:21 | <abastro[m]> | Students learning it would be kind of lazy |
| 22:45:31 | <abastro[m]> | Ah :P |
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| 22:47:32 | <abastro[m]> | Wait what is that exam problem, that sounds hellish |
| 22:47:45 | <maerwald[m]> | This is how laziness works: this should be evaluated, unless... or maybe not. Ohh...let me check that in the debugger. |
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| 22:48:44 | <hpc> | that's the beauty of IO |
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| 22:48:53 | <abastro[m]> | Yep, laziness allows doing what is necessary, being more efficient |
| 22:48:54 | <hpc> | the students are evaluated just before being execut- i mean, what? |
| 22:49:18 | <abastro[m]> | Haha |
| 22:49:30 | <maerwald[m]> | abastro: that's a gross oversimplification |
| 22:49:56 | <maerwald[m]> | Laziness gets you punished by monochrom |
| 22:50:00 | <abastro[m]> | Lmao |
| 22:50:24 | <abastro[m]> | <del>But..but sensei haskell is lazy by default</del> |
| 22:50:46 | <maerwald[m]> | Unless you're above average, then you get punished even of you are strict |
| 22:51:30 | <abastro[m]> | Wait why? |
| 22:53:28 | <monochrom> | abastro[m]: I was just kidding, my courses are really in no position to talk about MonadFix, too many other topics of relevance already. But the question was "from MonadFix laws can you prove mfix (const t) = t". My solution is at https://paste.tomsmeding.com/m6GansIE |
| 22:54:26 | <abastro[m]> | Oh, interesting |
| 22:56:49 | <abastro[m]> | Btw is your profession professor? |
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| 23:02:24 | <abastro[m]> | Oh I'm sorry for asking.. |
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| 23:10:50 | <Guest|3> | getting the error message "curl: (60) SSL certificate problem: certificate has expired |
| 23:10:51 | <Guest|3> | More details here: https://curl.haxx.se/docs/sslcerts.html" |
| 23:11:08 | <Guest|3> | when trying to install GHC |
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| 23:12:45 | <Guest|3> | can somebody please help me figure out how to download GHC? |
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| 23:15:06 | <geekosaur> | works here. are you sure you don't have out of date root certificates? |
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| 23:21:53 | <hpc> | have you tried the fixes on that link? |
| 23:24:58 | <Guest|3> | I have fixed it now, thank you for the responses |
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| 23:44:45 | <dons> | moin moin |
| 23:45:49 | <geekosaur> | o/ |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-04-06.