Logs on 2022-04-18 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:39:30 | <abastro[m]> | Yea 9.2.2 is usable |
| 00:39:39 | <abastro[m]> | Unless you are me and experiencing subtle crash problems |
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| 00:40:08 | <jerry99> | ghc pr ghci crash, or programs that you compile with ghc? |
| 00:40:11 | <jerry99> | or* |
| 00:40:27 | <abastro[m]> | Programs compiled with GHC |
| 00:40:38 | <jerry99> | hmm |
| 00:40:43 | <jerry99> | what OS? |
| 00:41:56 | <abastro[m]> | Linux |
| 00:41:58 | <jerry99> | I don't think I've ever experienced my haskell program crashing (as in segfaulting without an exception), except when I fiddled with FFI |
| 00:42:12 | <abastro[m]> | Well, if it matters, ubuntu |
| 00:42:13 | <abastro[m]> | That is the thing |
| 00:42:22 | <abastro[m]> | It is hard to pinpoint the reason |
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| 00:42:30 | <geekosaur> | I spent most of a day trying to reproduce it without success |
| 00:42:33 | <abastro[m]> | Just somehow, some combination of program& ghc makes it crash |
| 00:42:41 | <geekosaur> | it'sheap corruption detected during a gc |
| 00:42:41 | <abastro[m]> | Within certain condition |
| 00:43:18 | <abastro[m]> | geekosaur: Did you try loading from XMONAD_CONFIG_DIR? |
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| 00:43:52 | <geekosaur> | not yet, I had to leave shortly thereafter and haven't had a chance this evening, and probably won't get a chance tomorrow as I'll be out and about |
| 00:44:40 | <abastro[m]> | I see, this bug is quite sneaky tbh |
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| 00:50:21 | <awshua> | Is www.haskel.org down? |
| 00:50:38 | <awshua> | *www.haskell.org |
| 00:51:02 | <exarkun> | http://status.haskell.org/pages/incident/537c07b0cf1fad5830000093/625c69cdfcbdd204d4df5603 |
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| 00:51:30 | <awshua> | Thanks |
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| 00:58:46 | <geekosaur> | just tried it, still doesn't reproduce |
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| 01:03:05 | <sm> | nice to see the status page working 👍️ |
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| 01:07:57 | <abastro[m]> | Hmm I wonder if it is my strange system setup |
| 01:08:03 | <abastro[m]> | I mean, I think my setup is normal |
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| 01:08:21 | <abastro[m]> | But I guess somehow it can be considered awkward |
| 01:08:36 | <abastro[m]> | Perhaps it is underlying ubuntu not liking something? |
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| 01:10:56 | <geekosaur> | no idea :( |
| 01:12:24 | <geekosaur> | do you set any other of the XMONAD_*_DIR variables? |
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| 01:14:29 | <abastro[m]> | Yep |
| 01:15:11 | <abastro[m]> | All of: |
| 01:15:11 | <abastro[m]> | XMONAD_CONFIG_DIR, |
| 01:15:11 | <abastro[m]> | XMONAD_CACHE_DIR, |
| 01:15:11 | <abastro[m]> | XMONAD_DATA_DIR |
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| 01:19:54 | <geekosaur> | still not reproducing :( |
| 01:20:05 | <geekosaur> | can you pastebin what they're set to? |
| 01:20:09 | <geekosaur> | @where paste |
| 01:20:09 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
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| 01:27:05 | <geekosaur> | aaand my sleep monitor just started whining because I'm not in bed yet. will check back tomorrow morning |
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| 01:29:56 | <abastro[m]> | Oh, I see |
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| 02:03:47 | <statusbot> | Status update: There is a hardware issue with our server. Our service provider is working on a fix, but things will likely not be resolved until Monday. -- http://status.haskell.org/pages/incident/537c07b0cf1fad5830000093/625c69cdfcbdd204d4df5603 |
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| 03:55:15 | <abastro[m]> | `documentation: True` in cabal.project does not provide documentation for code.. guess it is distinct from -haddock :( |
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| 03:55:56 | <abastro[m]> | I guess I cannot have `-haddock` on by default. |
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| 04:01:20 | <dmj`> | any recommendations on a javascript generation library? |
| 04:01:35 | <dmj`> | thinking jmacro is the way to go |
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| 04:02:57 | Macbethwin | is now known as Edwin |
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| 04:03:34 | <dmj`> | or language-javascript |
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| 04:10:33 | <zebrag> | It is incredibly powerful what can be done with plain gadts, I'm thinking to the R/B-trees. I'm wondering what circumstances necessitate the full fledged dependent types. |
| 04:12:30 | <zebrag> | I say that mostly as a reminder, because I'm not sure I could understand the answer, right now |
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| 05:30:41 | <mjrosenb> | Is there an equivalent to Read for Data.Text? |
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| 05:44:28 | <cafkafk> | mjrosenb: I think so, (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-2.0/docs/Data-Text.html#t:Read) |
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| 05:46:54 | <mjrosenb> | cafkafk: that's saying that you can convert a String to Text via read, e.g. read "hello" :: Text == pack "hello" |
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| 05:47:36 | <mjrosenb> | I want textRead :: TextRead a => Text -> a |
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| 06:49:00 | <energizer> | is there a catalog of applications of monoids somewhere? |
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| 07:13:12 | <dragestil> | hi does anyone know how to configure haskell-language-server to use dynamic linking when generating ghc compiling error / warning diagnostics? I'm on arch btw |
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| 07:38:38 | <abastro[m]> | Why do you think error/warning diagnostics require dynamic linking? Unless you mean the dependencies |
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| 07:39:30 | <abastro[m]> | I guess you can modify cabal.project to change the dependencies to be linked dynamically. |
| 07:39:45 | <abastro[m]> | Tho that also modifies how it will be built. |
| 07:40:03 | <dragestil> | It's some typical error pointing to a missing -dynamic, something about files missing in base-4.15.1.0 |
| 07:40:28 | <dragestil> | reading hls docs it seems I need to fiddle with hie.yaml |
| 07:40:38 | <abastro[m]> | Uhm that sounds more like some bug caused elsewhere |
| 07:40:46 | <abastro[m]> | Oh. |
| 07:40:50 | <abastro[m]> | Which platform? |
| 07:40:56 | <dragestil> | huh? |
| 07:40:58 | <abastro[m]> | (OS) |
| 07:41:07 | <dragestil> | gnu/linux |
| 07:42:19 | <abastro[m]> | Strange, I never faced the error involving base missing -dynamic |
| 07:42:41 | <abastro[m]> | I think I heard of having to link dynamically in Windows, but not in linux |
| 07:42:52 | <dragestil> | it's a perk with arch ;) |
| 07:43:02 | <abastro[m]> | Wait |
| 07:43:11 | <abastro[m]> | You using system ghc? |
| 07:43:17 | <dragestil> | yeah |
| 07:43:19 | <abastro[m]> | Installed by arch? |
| 07:43:25 | <abastro[m]> | Ye don't do that |
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| 07:43:49 | <abastro[m]> | Build tools have hard time dealing with those package-installed binaries. |
| 07:44:24 | <c_wraith> | also, arch installs ghc broken |
| 07:44:44 | <abastro[m]> | Is it inherently broken? Meh |
| 07:44:51 | <dragestil> | hmm ok, don't really feel like installing two sets of haskell libraries |
| 07:44:52 | <timCF> | Hello! I have an issue with one Haskell package, which has large auto-generated Haskell file (from protobuf document) which is bigger than 3MB. When I'm trying to compile this package on machine with RAM < 32GB then compiler fails because of lack of RAM. Maybe there is some easy way how I can fix that without manual job of splitting this auto-generated file into multiple? |
| 07:45:03 | <abastro[m]> | I should link ghcup but ghcup is not responding |
| 07:45:14 | <abastro[m]> | :ohno: |
| 07:46:30 | <abastro[m]> | dragestil: Well I mean, you should never touch arch-shipped ghc. I.e. you should remove that one |
| 07:47:02 | <dragestil> | abastro[m]: why? |
| 07:49:13 | <c_wraith> | it doesn't include the whole compiler. they removed everything that is needed to support any use case other than compiling haskell tools that arch supplies |
| 07:50:01 | <abastro[m]> | Oh, so arch ghc package at least works for building some tools on arch. |
| 07:50:29 | <abastro[m]> | Where is ghcup mirror download link.. |
| 07:51:54 | <abastro[m]> | It seems arch supplies `ghcup-hs-bin` at least. Maybe that would work |
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| 08:19:26 | <dragestil> | abastro[m]: yeah looks like the git repo is still up https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs |
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| 08:23:54 | <abastro[m]> | Git repo is okay, but haskell.org is ded |
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| 08:41:49 | <albet70> | how that @(->)_ use to limited m? |
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| 08:46:26 | <abastro[m]> | Uhm sorry I do not understand you, albet |
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| 08:50:27 | <albet70> | type application |
| 08:50:43 | <albet70> | found it, :t fmap @((->) _) |
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| 08:51:56 | <dragestil> | in this time of crisis, do people look up docs from local hoogle? |
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| 08:58:50 | <abastro[m]> | Hackage is alive |
| 08:59:12 | <abastro[m]> | So I guess you could search hackage - requires a bit more effort |
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| 09:00:13 | ← | S_Cat parts (apic@brezn3.muc.ccc.de) () |
| 09:00:17 | <dragestil> | pacman -S hoogle && hoogle generate && hoogle server |
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| 09:02:56 | <dragestil> | would be nice to have a local hackage too :) |
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| 09:03:52 | <albet70> | "dragestil :pacman -S hoogle && hoogle generate && hoogle server", but archlinux is terrible to ghc |
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| 09:05:16 | <dragestil> | https://github.com/ndmitchell/hoogle/blob/master/docs/Install.md |
| 09:05:20 | <abastro[m]> | Oh, I did not know local hoogle was also possible |
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| 09:07:50 | <fciocan> | I have some questions regarding GSoC. |
| 09:08:48 | <fciocan> | Is the site working for anyone? |
| 09:08:51 | <fciocan> | https://summer.haskell.org/ |
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| 09:20:33 | <fciocan> | found nvm |
| 09:20:35 | <fciocan> | https://status.haskell.org |
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| 09:26:41 | <albet70> | what instance need to implement 'join'? |
| 09:27:08 | <abastro[m]> | Monad? |
| 09:27:19 | <abastro[m]> | :t join |
| 09:27:20 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m (m a) -> m a |
| 09:27:27 | <abastro[m]> | Ye |
| 09:27:51 | <abastro[m]> | I wish I had time to participate in GSoC.. |
| 09:27:53 | <albet70> | monad requires fmap, ap, bind |
| 09:28:04 | ← | neverwas parts (jpneverwas@swissbox.unperson.link) (ERC 5.4.1.49860.0.20220416.450 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 28.1)) |
| 09:28:20 | <albet70> | and return |
| 09:28:34 | <fciocan> | matrix it s also on GSoC? |
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| 09:34:25 | <albet70> | :t join @((->)_) |
| 09:34:27 | <lambdabot> | error: parse error on input ‘->’ |
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| 09:35:48 | <abastro[m]> | Hmm |
| 09:36:02 | <abastro[m]> | % :t join @((->) _) |
| 09:36:03 | <yahb> | abastro[m]: (w -> (w -> a)) -> w -> a |
| 09:36:22 | <albet70> | join :: (_ -> _ -> a) -> _ -> a, this is really weird, which case would use this? |
| 09:37:04 | <albet70> | join an unary and a value |
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| 09:42:03 | <abastro[m]> | > join (*) <$> [1..] |
| 09:42:05 | <lambdabot> | [1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100,121,144,169,196,225,256,289,324,361,400,441,484... |
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| 09:43:00 | <abastro[m]> | > join bimap (+3) (2, 6) |
| 09:43:03 | <lambdabot> | (5,9) |
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| 09:48:47 | <albet70> | "abastro[m] :> join (*) <$> [1..]", I don't understand why this join has three parameter, but its type only require two |
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| 09:54:46 | <mjrosenb> | Similar to my previous quesion about read, is there an equivalent for Show that will render a value into a Text? |
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| 10:22:08 | <dibblego> | albet70: all Haskell functions take one argument, always |
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| 10:36:32 | <maerwald> | dibblego: the Haskell report itself talks of "multiple parameters" in several places |
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| 10:37:48 | <dibblego> | yes so do I, when approximating |
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| 10:40:08 | <maerwald> | I don't think that's approximation. Those are just different mental models. |
| 10:40:25 | <dibblego> | clearly not, see above |
| 10:40:50 | <dibblego> | where the approximation is causing confusion |
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| 10:42:37 | <maerwald> | you can regard a function as having multiple parameters and explain that behind the scenes it produces a new function after applying one parameter |
| 10:42:42 | <maerwald> | that's not approximation |
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| 10:45:19 | <maerwald> | the confusion probably comes from not understanding that `a -> (a -> a)` is `a -> a -> a` |
| 10:45:48 | <abastro[m]> | Currying by default! |
| 10:45:51 | <maerwald> | `a -> a -> a` is not an approximation |
| 10:45:54 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 10:46:18 | <abastro[m]> | Btw how do I access ghcup in this darkness of outage |
| 10:46:48 | <maerwald> | abastro[m]: try https://mirror.sjtu.edu.cn/docs/ghcup |
| 10:47:11 | <abastro[m]> | Oh interesting |
| 10:47:24 | <abastro[m]> | (the chinese letters are scart tho) |
| 10:47:49 | <abastro[m]> | I wonder how it is also hosted in... well, China |
| 10:48:46 | <maerwald> | I can't speak for the safety of that mirror, but afaik it's hosted by university students |
| 10:50:19 | <abastro[m]> | Brave uni students |
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| 11:00:00 | <abastro> | Does cabal have an option to replace `-haddock` ghc option? |
| 11:00:12 | <abastro> | `Documentation: True` apparently does sth else |
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| 11:33:27 | <bahamas> | hi. is haskell.org down for anyone else? |
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| 11:35:24 | <abastro> | Yes it is having issues |
| 11:35:57 | <abastro> | Check https://status.haskell.org |
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| 12:05:40 | → | Inst joins (~Liam@c-98-208-218-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 12:05:43 | <Inst> | Inst> btw, has everyone seen www.haskellcosm.com yet? |
| 12:05:45 | <Inst> | < |
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| 12:05:56 | <Inst> | also, data Nada = Nada is not a monad, right? |
| 12:06:00 | <Inst> | but it is a functor |
| 12:06:06 | <bahamas> | abastro: thanks! |
| 12:06:11 | <abastro> | np! |
| 12:06:26 | <abastro> | Inst: `data Nada = Nada` lacks the type parameter |
| 12:06:37 | <abastro> | So it is not a functor/applicative/monad. |
| 12:06:42 | <Inst> | it can't be made into an applicative |
| 12:06:49 | <Inst> | it can be a functor, though |
| 12:07:41 | <hpc> | it can't be Functor, the kind doesn't match |
| 12:07:52 | <hpc> | Functor :: (Type -> Type) -> Constraint |
| 12:07:53 | <Inst> | :( |
| 12:07:54 | <hpc> | and Nada :: Type |
| 12:08:04 | <hpc> | it can be Monoid |
| 12:08:09 | <hpc> | Monoid :: Type -> Constraint |
| 12:08:30 | <hpc> | btw, Nada = () |
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| 12:22:26 | <shapr> | hpc: did you write hpc? :-) |
| 12:23:56 | <abastro> | What is \hpc? |
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| 12:24:30 | <shapr> | abastro: https://wiki.haskell.org/Haskell_program_coverage |
| 12:24:55 | <shapr> | I got distracted last week, did not get it hooked up to QuickCheck. |
| 12:25:07 | <shapr> | But I made a bunch of progress and expect to get it working this week. |
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| 12:35:06 | <abastro> | Lol I was trying to click the link, instead I closed it.. |
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| 13:56:51 | <slaydr> | is haskell.org down? |
| 13:57:19 | <geekosaur> | yes. https://status.haskell.org |
| 13:57:32 | <slaydr> | thanks |
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| 14:34:59 | <shapr> | How do I add a git repo to a cabal file? I want to include a package as a dependency, but it's not on hackage. |
| 14:35:33 | <geekosaur> | you use cabal.project to specify the dependency's location |
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| 14:36:15 | <geekosaur> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.6/cabal-project.html#specifying-packages-from-remote-version-control-locations |
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| 14:38:19 | <shapr> | geekosaur: thank you! |
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| 14:39:32 | <shapr> | oh, I was putting it into the cabal file for the actual project, oops |
| 14:40:16 | <shapr> | hmm |
| 14:42:30 | <geekosaur> | yes, this is a bit weird. it makes more sense when you realize that your cabal file becomes the library registration in the package database |
| 14:42:49 | <shapr> | I'm still doing something wrong ... |
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| 14:44:09 | <shapr> | oh, builds fine without the -eventlog flag in ghc-options |
| 14:44:23 | <shapr> | or not :-| |
| 14:45:44 | <shapr> | ohh, repo name doesn't match package name, doh! |
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| 14:51:24 | <shapr> | ok, next question is how to pass multiple default RTS options. I have ghc-options: -eventlog -threaded -rtsopts -with-rtsopts="+RTS -l -N" |
| 14:51:37 | <shapr> | but that gives me an ld error |
| 14:51:49 | <geekosaur> | I think you have to quote the whole thing |
| 14:52:04 | <geekosaur> | "-with-rtsopts=+RTS -l -N" |
| 14:52:07 | <shapr> | oh! |
| 14:52:13 | <geekosaur> | it's not shell parsing |
| 14:52:43 | <shapr> | looks like that works, thanks |
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| 14:55:48 | <shapr> | Hm, I'll have to read the source or bother bgamari, I don't see an eventlog socket created. |
| 14:56:58 | <bgamari> | shapr, have you set GHC_EVENTLOG_SOCKET? |
| 14:57:53 | <shapr> | yes, via export GHC_EVENTLOG_SOCKET=/tmp/eventlog.sock |
| 14:58:52 | <bgamari> | hmm |
| 14:58:59 | <shapr> | I'd bet on user error |
| 14:59:10 | <bgamari> | what happens if you pass +RTS -l manually? |
| 14:59:14 | <bgamari> | to the process |
| 14:59:15 | <shapr> | ah, I'll try that |
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| 15:00:35 | <geekosaur> | actually I think you should not be passing +RTS there |
| 15:00:47 | <geekosaur> | because it's already RTS options. +RTS is for the command line |
| 15:01:21 | <geekosaur> | which may mean the RTS is aborting option parsing from the internal rtsopts |
| 15:01:43 | <geekosaur> | so just "-with-rtsopts=-l -N" |
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| 15:03:24 | <shapr> | Is there a separate binary for tests? |
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| 15:04:39 | <shapr> | can I use cabal list-bin to find the binary for the test-suite stanza? |
| 15:05:15 | <geekosaur> | I think you can specify test:exename |
| 15:05:28 | <bgamari> | yes, I believe that geekosaur is right |
| 15:05:32 | <bgamari> | you want to drop +RTS |
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| 15:05:43 | <bgamari> | although I'm not sure why though would cause the flags to be ignored |
| 15:06:18 | <geekosaur> | becuase + isn't a valid flag introducer |
| 15:06:43 | <geekosaur> | I have no idea how the parsing for those options works thoiugh, it might output a warning message that it found an invalid rtsopt |
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| 15:19:46 | <shapr> | maybe I should try this on the main binary first, instead of the test |
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| 15:26:18 | <shapr> | I wish list-bin would tell me all the targets I could list :-| |
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| 15:29:01 | <shapr> | I'm making a list of tasks where I can help out, this looks like one https://github.com/haskell/cabal/pull/7500 |
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| 15:33:50 | <maerwald[m]> | shapr: yeah, cabal autocompletion could do that easily if it was using optparse-applicative |
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| 15:35:06 | <shapr> | looks like manually passing +RTS -l does not wait for socket to be read, hmm |
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| 15:36:22 | shapr | moves to #haskell-in-depth for rubber duck purposes |
| 15:38:23 | <shapr> | bgamari: perhaps I need to use the custom event log writer command line param? |
| 15:40:06 | <bgamari> | shapr, are you calling GHC.Eventlog.Socket.start at the beginning of your program? |
| 15:40:22 | <shapr> | oh, I didn't know about that! |
| 15:40:35 | <bgamari> | oh dear, I suppose we ought to advertise this more clearly |
| 15:40:37 | <bgamari> | sorry about that |
| 15:41:06 | bgamari | also needs to look through phadej's rewrite as well |
| 15:41:09 | <shapr> | I can submit a PR for a complete working example once I have it all sewed together |
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| 15:43:31 | <bgamari> | that would be great, thanks |
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| 15:44:02 | <bgamari> | shapr, actually, I may try to have a look at Oleg's rewrite now |
| 15:44:08 | <bgamari> | shapr, so perhaps base off of that |
| 15:44:39 | <shapr> | ok! |
| 15:44:47 | <bgamari> | cheesr |
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| 15:45:22 | <c_wraith> | typo or new app for rating cheeses? the world may never know |
| 15:47:27 | <bgamari> | hah |
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| 15:55:18 | <geekosaur> | ok, having just trawled RtsFlags.c, that +RTS should have caused the program to abort with an RTS options usage message, not continue without rtsopts |
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| 16:41:52 | <RevoGen> | I'm in the middle of reading about functor laws. Is there a case where (fmap id = id) holds but (fmap f . fmap g = fmap (f.g)) does not hold? |
| 16:42:03 | <c_wraith> | no |
| 16:42:11 | <c_wraith> | At least, not in Haskell |
| 16:42:17 | <RevoGen> | by that I mean, is there to break the laws? |
| 16:42:22 | <c_wraith> | That's a necessary consequence of parametricity |
| 16:42:57 | <RevoGen> | Could you elaborate? |
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| 16:45:12 | <RevoGen> | I was wondering because you can break both laws like so: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2dKkmghn |
| 16:45:30 | <c_wraith> | parametricity is the property that that functions that have parametric polymorphism in their types must behave uniformly regardless of what type is chosen |
| 16:48:24 | <c_wraith> | A paper called "Theorems for free" goes into a lot of detail for how to use parametricity to derive theorems about a type automatically |
| 16:48:48 | <c_wraith> | https://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.38.9875 for the record |
| 16:49:10 | <RevoGen> | thank you, will read |
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| 16:54:34 | <zzz> | RevoGen: laws are not enforced by the compiler, so you can create your own illegal instances (like thr one you pasted) if that's what you're asking |
| 16:57:44 | <zzz> | but you shouldn't |
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| 17:04:27 | <lyxia> | the question is whether you can choose which of the functor laws to break |
| 17:10:30 | <abastro[m]> | Hmm I feel like I am overcomplicating setup by making haskell scripts |
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| 17:27:24 | <nil> | My Cabal is finding older versions of Hackage packages, instead of the latest version. Any idea why? |
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| 17:27:50 | <geekosaur> | did you run cabal update? |
| 17:28:15 | <geekosaur> | otherwise, it usually means some other package has restrictive version dependencies |
| 17:28:37 | <nil> | yep, and I purged my .cabal and .ghc it still happens. |
| 17:29:10 | <nil> | Oh, I'm using a Hackage mirror, and the problem is gone once I changed back to hackage.haskell.org |
| 17:30:28 | <nil> | weird, the mirror is up-to-date.. hmmm |
| 17:31:39 | <nil> | What's the difference between 01-index and 00-index? |
| 17:33:24 | <geekosaur> | I think 00-index was used by cabal v1 and is more limited? |
| 17:33:41 | <geekosaur> | I only have 01-index and the products generated from it |
| 17:34:00 | <sclv> | there's a rather obscure hack by which 00-index doesn't have cabal files past a certain cabal spec version |
| 17:34:10 | <sclv> | i'm not particularly fond of that hack |
| 17:34:16 | <nil> | Okay, this seems like the problem. 00-index is much more outdated. It does not contain e.g. primitive >= 0.7 |
| 17:34:40 | <sclv> | but also yeah, its not clear to my why a mirror would not provide an 01-index |
| 17:35:02 | <nil> | the mirror provides 01-index, but cabal somehow ignores it |
| 17:35:13 | <nil> | (01-index is not downloaded) |
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| 17:36:48 | <nil> | ugh, it's my fault |
| 17:37:13 | <nil> | I set `secure: False` in my cabal config. It should be true, or the new index won't be downloaded |
| 17:41:33 | <sclv> | here's the patch. we should probably just get rid of it https://github.com/haskell/hackage-server/commit/9a6be09342095dda621c39ed3189904240a458e4 |
| 17:41:48 | <sclv> | cabal 1.x versions are well out of suport range imho |
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| 17:48:51 | <abastro[m]> | Was its release 10 years ago |
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| 18:34:45 | <romesrf> | Hey everyone, I'm getting some errors on all cabal installations/builds, I've even deleted .cabal and .ghc in desperation, has anyone seen this before?: |
| 18:34:50 | <romesrf> | "ar: @dist/build/objs-22489/ar22489-2.rsp: No such file or directory" |
| 18:35:55 | <romesrf> | ar is llvm related right? |
| 18:37:09 | <geekosaur> | ar is toolchain related, it's how you build a static archive (.a file) whether llvm ornot |
| 18:37:48 | <geekosaur> | it'slooking for a response file, which is used to avoid command lines that are too long for various OSes |
| 18:38:00 | <romesrf> | hmm. |
| 18:38:24 | <romesrf> | I'm currently downgrading llvm, shot in the dark |
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| 18:49:48 | <romesrf> | no luck |
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| 18:53:44 | <romesrf> | I don't know how to proceed |
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| 18:54:39 | <romesrf> | maybe I'll try a different cabal version (different ghc versions don't solve it) |
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| 19:11:48 | <romesrf> | Is there some way to nuke cabal? |
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| 19:12:28 | <sclv> | i don't think cabal calls ar directly -- ghc would |
| 19:12:36 | <sclv> | are you on windows or something |
| 19:13:25 | <sclv> | or mac or..? |
| 19:13:29 | <romesrf> | sclv: I'm on macOS, and use haskell very regularly :) |
| 19:13:48 | <romesrf> | I was 1 week or so away, and the last thing I remember is not being able to compile anything with cabal |
| 19:13:55 | <romesrf> | Oh, let me try compiling just with ghc |
| 19:14:03 | <sclv> | do you have some sort of homebrew setup? |
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| 19:14:14 | <romesrf> | sclv: yes |
| 19:14:17 | <sclv> | that's probably it |
| 19:14:39 | <sclv> | as i recall, response file support is sort of dodgy among different tools at different versions |
| 19:14:51 | <sclv> | and if you have something that stomps the versions that support it with versions that don't |
| 19:15:02 | <romesrf> | my troubleshooting went well: ghc fails a main = putStrLn compilation |
| 19:15:17 | <sclv> | you can run with verbosity flags and see where what gets invoked |
| 19:15:30 | <romesrf> | lol; what a nice error message: "Cannot open macos: No such file or directory" |
| 19:15:44 | <romesrf> | I wonder what tries to open *macos** |
| 19:16:06 | <sclv> | a ghc you get by any other means than homebrew will not play well with any homebrew tools iirc |
| 19:16:33 | <romesrf> | Hm. However I've been using ghcup this whole time. I'll be back, let me follow up on this lead |
| 19:16:37 | <jerry99> | when I am migrating to a new stack version, how can I delete all the libraries downloaded for the stack snapshot that I no longer use? I could find directory with ghc that I can just delete, but not sure how I'd track all the libraries, and there doesn't seem to be any automatic option that would remove things that are no longer needed |
| 19:17:14 | <sclv> | i recommend you stick to ghc from ghcup |
| 19:17:23 | <sclv> | its going to be if you have any nonstandard anything else that ghc uses in your path |
| 19:17:29 | <romesrf> | sclv: I do |
| 19:17:35 | <sclv> | well that's your problem |
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| 19:18:02 | <romesrf> | I see |
| 19:18:13 | <romesrf> | brb |
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| 19:20:36 | <sclv> | ah they quit |
| 19:20:53 | <sclv> | was going to point out that ~/.ghcup/ghc/9.2.1/lib/ghc-9.2.1/lib/settings or the like will have a setting like "ar supports at file" which can be tweaked |
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| 19:27:04 | <romesrf> | Fixed it by reinstalling ghc itself. Should have tried just ghc compilation sooner |
| 19:27:13 | <romesrf> | thanks all |
| 19:27:40 | <geekosaur> | that prpobably made it recompute the "ar supports at file" setting in lib/settings |
| 19:27:58 | <geekosaur> | you left too quickly to see sclv suggest it |
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| 19:32:55 | <romesrf> | geekosaur: :) |
| 19:32:58 | <romesrf> | sclv: thakm you |
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| 19:48:29 | <sm> | jerry99: stack-clean-old, from hackage, is good for that |
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| 19:55:45 | <shapr> | dons: Is your PhD thesis available somewhere? The link from your website is broken. |
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| 20:00:18 | <davean> | shapr: Look who is talking about someone's website being broken! |
| 20:00:23 | <davean> | *glare* |
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| 20:02:56 | <shapr> | uhhh, you have a point |
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| 20:03:47 | <davean> | shapr: I'm sitting you down early next month and fixing this |
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| 20:05:20 | <shapr> | ha, works for me |
| 20:05:45 | <janus> | how can i run a script in ghci such that it exits with code 1 if there is e.g. an unbound name in there? |
| 20:06:08 | <davean> | janus: uh, what do you mean "run a script in ghci" and "exit"? |
| 20:06:34 | <janus> | like, currently i pipe into 'stack ghci' but it doesn't fail when there is e.g. an unknown function |
| 20:07:15 | <janus> | so currently it's like 'echo "import A; functionFromA" | stack ghci mycomponent' |
| 20:07:38 | <davean> | pipe into ... thats not what ghci is at all for |
| 20:07:51 | <davean> | thats crazy talk. theres runghc for stuff like that. |
| 20:08:30 | <davean> | ghci is "i", interactive |
| 20:12:00 | <davean> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-commands.html?highlight=env#cabal-v2-run for the version that handles enviroments. |
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| 20:19:29 | <janus> | ok, but i don't use cabal on this project, and 'stack runghc' only takes a module name or source file, not a component |
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| 20:37:39 | <energizer> | :t (->) |
| 20:37:40 | <lambdabot> | error: parse error on input ‘->’ |
| 20:37:43 | <schuelermine> | Does anybody know if there’s a mirror of cabal documentation somewhere? |
| 20:37:49 | <schuelermine> | haskell.org is down for me |
| 20:38:06 | <sclv> | cabal.readthedocs.io isn't on haskell.org |
| 20:39:01 | <sclv> | janus: use ghc -e instead? |
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| 20:39:42 | <schuelermine> | sclv: oh ok, I was linked to http://www.haskell.org/cabal/users-guide |
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| 20:43:39 | <geekosaur> | :k (->) |
| 20:43:40 | <lambdabot> | * -> * -> * |
| 20:44:34 | <mjrosenb> | trying again now that there are more people awake... Are there equivalents to Show / Read, which produce and consume Text, respectively? |
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| 20:45:42 | <schuelermine> | best match basic hoogling finds me is: |
| 20:45:44 | <schuelermine> | Text.Pandoc.Shared.stringify :: Walkable Inline a => a -> Text |
| 20:45:51 | <schuelermine> | Debian.Pretty.ppText :: Pretty (PP a) => a -> Text |
| 20:46:01 | <geekosaur> | not currently, and I think many people would prefer for Read to go away because it's pretty lousy |
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| 20:49:26 | <geekosaur> | janus, https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2ePZ4088 |
| 20:49:55 | <geekosaur> | doesn't help with stdin though |
| 20:50:09 | <energizer> | why does haskell have functions instead of only types? |
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| 20:51:13 | <energizer> | i guess it's performance |
| 20:51:29 | <geekosaur> | that quuestion does not make sense to me |
| 20:51:41 | <schuelermine> | energizer: Haskell has values and types |
| 20:51:49 | <schuelermine> | There is a function type which is the type of function values |
| 20:52:02 | <schuelermine> | Functions’ only special property is that they can be applied |
| 20:52:09 | <schuelermine> | Perhaps you are thinking of types as classes? |
| 20:52:19 | <geekosaur> | janus, and ghci won't accept /dev/stdin or equivalents apparently |
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| 20:54:58 | <schuelermine> | Would you recommend using cabal’s simple test system or the detailed one, and if the latter, would you recommend using it directly or using something like QuickCheck? |
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| 20:55:38 | <sclv> | everyone only really uses the simple system |
| 20:55:41 | <geekosaur> | doesn't like -x hs either |
| 20:55:55 | <sclv> | and they tend to drive it with a library like tasty, which lets you plug in quickcheck, hspec, etc tests |
| 20:56:36 | <schuelermine> | sclv: ok |
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| 21:23:21 | <zzz> | energizer: mind that type constructors are functions |
| 21:24:47 | <hpc> | shapr: nope, it's short for something else |
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| 21:25:17 | <hpc> | its true expansion can be found on hackage though |
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| 21:26:23 | <RevoGen> | Is there an intuitive way to understand functions as applicatives? I get how to evaluate "f <*> g = \x -> f x (g x)" on paper, I just don't get how something like this would be used |
| 21:27:47 | <hpc> | RevoGen: think Reader |
| 21:27:51 | <hpc> | @unmtl Reader e a |
| 21:27:51 | <lambdabot> | e -> a |
| 21:28:18 | <hpc> | the intuition here is that f and g are both getting x as the first argument |
| 21:28:43 | <hpc> | mentally erase x, which is the "environment", and what do you get |
| 21:29:02 | <RevoGen> | function composition? |
| 21:29:30 | <hpc> | almost |
| 21:29:55 | <hpc> | if it helps, copy into vim and do some backspacing |
| 21:31:05 | <hpc> | the general type of (<*>) is also a clue |
| 21:31:56 | <hpc> | as you mentally erase x, also erase f in the type |
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| 21:41:16 | <janus> | can i get stack to write ghc environment files somehow? |
| 21:46:10 | <jerry99> | I have data X = X Y, and data Y = A | B | C <- is there a way to ensure that only X A and X B compile, and that X C gives compile-time error? |
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| 21:46:43 | <hpc> | there are ways if you don't mind changing Y |
| 21:47:17 | <hpc> | for instance, with GADTs/DataKinds data Y where A :: Y False; B :: Y False; C :: Y True |
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| 21:47:21 | <jerry99> | C is valid and legal in every other context where A and B would be used |
| 21:47:23 | <hpc> | data X = X (Y False) |
| 21:48:13 | <hpc> | there's also the possibility that you don't want Y at all |
| 21:48:23 | <jerry99> | so I'd rather keep Y as is, and make this requirement part of X type, since X restricts what Y values are valid. is that possibe? |
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| 21:48:50 | <hpc> | maybe you don't expose the ability to manipulate X values outside the module |
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| 21:49:03 | <hpc> | then provide an api that guarantees the properties you want |
| 21:49:18 | <hpc> | Handle is a good example of how that might work |
| 21:49:27 | <jerry99> | mkX :: Y -> Maybe X? |
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| 21:49:37 | <jerry99> | and don't expose constructor |
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| 21:50:43 | <hpc> | yeah |
| 21:50:58 | <hpc> | and mkX can have as interesting a type as you want |
| 21:52:09 | <jerry99> | ok I think that will do. not the compile-time safety I was looking for, but I'd rather keep Y as is. out of curiosity, if haskell had dependent types, we could put this constraint in the X type, while leaving Y as is? |
| 21:52:45 | <hpc> | you still have to change Y |
| 21:53:09 | <hpc> | or hmm, you don't but it's still kind of awkward |
| 21:53:34 | <jerry99> | just looked at your GADTs example. I don't quite get what this means. data Y where A :: Y False; B :: Y False; C :: Y True |
| 21:54:08 | <hpc> | basically, Y :: Bool -> Type, instead of just Y :: Type |
| 21:54:16 | <hpc> | a value of type (Y a) can be A, B, or C |
| 21:54:22 | <hpc> | a value of type Y False can be A or B |
| 21:54:29 | <hpc> | a value of type Y True can be C only |
| 21:54:56 | <jerry99> | what if there was Z, that contains different subset of Y? we would use sum type with 3 values instead of bool? |
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| 21:55:06 | <hpc> | yeah |
| 21:55:20 | <hpc> | at that point you might define your own thing |
| 21:55:32 | <hpc> | or if you enjoy terrible code you might use Ord :D |
| 21:55:46 | <jerry99> | :) |
| 21:55:59 | <hpc> | i have thought about crawling hackage for all the enums and seeing how high i can get in an acme-typenats package |
| 21:56:15 | <jerry99> | and how could we accept all the Y values, we can just use Y as before? |
| 21:56:25 | <hpc> | parametric polymorphism |
| 21:56:35 | <jerry99> | ah ok |
| 21:56:37 | <hpc> | if the type parameter can be True or False, the constructor can be anything that satisfies either |
| 21:56:58 | <hpc> | but then maybe you end up with more troubles, because that 'a' needs to stay the same everywhere it's used |
| 21:57:18 | <hpc> | you might end up with lots of (Y a -> Y b) functions that are no longer usable with respect to X |
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| 22:01:13 | <jerry99> | ok thanks hpc. I will toy with it a bit, and see how it fits my actual problem |
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| 22:02:26 | <RevoGen> | hpc: ty, the environment explanation helped, I got "(<*>) :: (r -> (a -> b)) -> (r -> a) -> (r -> b)" |
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| 22:05:13 | <hpc> | :t (<*>) |
| 22:05:15 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
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| 22:06:38 | <hpc> | so what would this be if you didn't have that extra x? (this will make the idea /really/ click) |
| 22:07:16 | <hpc> | mentally erase all the "x" stuff in the value, and all the "f" stuff in the above type |
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| 22:08:43 | <RevoGen> | just a map? |
| 22:10:20 | <hpc> | here's a hint: (a -> b) -> a -> b |
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| 22:12:13 | <RevoGen> | ic |
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| 22:25:07 | <sseefried> | Is https://www.haskell.org down? |
| 22:25:34 | <davean> | sseefried: its about to be back! |
| 22:25:45 | <sseefried> | Haha, just as I jumped on the channel |
| 22:27:14 | <sseefried> | What happened? |
| 22:27:28 | <sseefried> | davean: What happened? |
| 22:27:55 | <davean> | sseefried: HW failures at the datacenter, and a holiday weekend slowing down recovery. Its back up actually, just took the chance of it being down for a system upgrade |
| 22:28:07 | <davean> | its up now |
| 22:28:13 | <sseefried> | Yeah, I saw :-) |
| 22:28:18 | <sseefried> | Great work. Thanks. |
| 22:28:35 | <davean> | Well, I had to wait for you to get here to fix it ;) |
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| 22:29:33 | <statusbot> | Status update: The server was not able to boot due to an efuse issue with the power. The host has repaired the hardware and haskell.org is again running. -- http://status.haskell.org/pages/incident/537c07b0cf1fad5830000093/625c69cdfcbdd204d4df5603 |
| 22:30:22 | <hpc> | yay |
| 22:32:25 | <abastro[m]> | Finally! :) |
| 22:32:41 | <abastro[m]> | (So haskell is not dying) |
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| 22:37:18 | <hpc> | what is dead can never die! :D |
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| 22:59:26 | <abastro[m]> | :? |
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| 23:12:43 | <sclv> | its a joking quote from game of thrones |
| 23:13:20 | <sclv> | https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/What_Is_Dead_May_Never_Die#:~:text=%22What%20is%20dead%20may%20never%20die%22%20is%20a%20common%20saying,Drowned%20Man%20conducting%20the%20ceremony. |
| 23:13:35 | <sclv> | "But rises again harder and stronger" |
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| 23:24:09 | <abastro[m]> | Whh |
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