Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-05-10 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:21:55 <sm> I found cmdargs docs better than o-a's
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00:33:33 <Axman6> I've been using Haskell for well over a decade and can't for the life of me figure out how the first cmdargs example could possibly work, but evidently it does
00:37:40 <sm> at https://github.com/ndmitchell/cmdargs#readme ? Uh.. same :)
00:38:43 <Axman6> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cmdargs-0.10.21/docs/src/System.Console.CmdArgs.Annotate.html#addAnn
00:38:54 <Axman6> it'sd all unsafePerformIO nonsense
00:40:41 <sm> that's the easy ui, provided along with two others which are more pure.. very reasonable
00:40:45 <Axman6> this is like the most horrific hack I've ever seen written in HAskell - I'm sticking to optparse-applicative thanks!
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00:41:25 <sm> this has been a knee-jerk reaction to cmdargs since it was introduced.. I'm surprised at you Axman :)
00:41:34 <Axman6> I dream of the day where one day, my code is audited, and no unsafePerformIOs are found anywhere
00:41:39 <sm> sorry, afk a few
00:41:57 <Axman6> this is like worse than edwardk's promises package
00:42:05 <Axman6> which is amazing, but horrifying
00:42:21 <Axman6> or edwardk's discrimination package
00:42:42 <Axman6> or edwardk's structs package
00:42:45 <Axman6> hmmmm...
00:42:47 <dashkal> jackdk: Nope. In-context status codes. "What kind of dependency is this?" and similar.
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00:48:11 <geekosaur> now I'm wondering where this "maker" is and if the question the other day about getting output from make would have benefitted from it
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00:59:17 <noteness> Hi. I'm learning haskell. Why does this give an error? "min min min 9 10 11 12" ?
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01:00:01 <noteness> I thought it was because it interpreted from left to right so i tried "min 9 min 10 min 11 12" but it also gave error
01:00:41 <hpc> it's doing ((((((min min) min) 9) 10) 11) 12)
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01:02:04 <hpc> the googleable word for this behavior is currying
01:02:24 <hpc> it has some neat properties even if it looks really weird, but in any event you want min (min (min 9 10) 11) 12
01:02:27 <hpc> or something like that
01:03:10 <noteness> oo. i'll google currying
01:03:22 <noteness> yeah. brackets and inflix worked.
01:03:29 <Axman6> function application associates to the left, and binds more strongly than any operators, so as hpc says, you end up with ((((((min min) min) 9) 10) 11) 12) which doesn't make much sense
01:04:01 <Axman6> f x y z is always (((f x) y) z)
01:04:37 <hpc> a nice quick way to understand currying is, if you've ever used operator sections
01:04:42 <hpc> like (+ 5) or whatever
01:05:00 <hpc> currying is exactly that, the secret to sections is everything does it
01:05:11 <hpc> > map (+5) [1,2,3]
01:05:13 <lambdabot> [6,7,8]
01:05:14 <Axman6> when teaching Haskell (with dibblego, back in the day), we used to hammer into people this fact: all functions take exactly one argument, and it's surprising how many of these questions are answered by remembering that
01:05:18 <hpc> > map (subtract 10) [100, 200, 300]
01:05:20 <lambdabot> [90,190,290]
01:06:26 <hpc> subtract = flip (-)
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01:07:01 <noteness> Yo that's neat
01:07:48 <hpc> yeah, it never gets old
01:12:47 <Axman6> noteness: quick pop quiz: how many argument does (+) :: Num a => a -> a -> a? take?
01:15:16 <hpc> Axman6: that question is even more fun with id :: a -> a
01:16:01 <noteness> Axman6, 1? Returns a functions which also takes 1 arg and then that returns a number? (but idk what that syntax means.)
01:16:18 <Axman6> correct!
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01:17:01 <noteness> Currying is cool.
01:17:40 <noteness> I'm at http://learnyouahaskell.com/starting-out this is a good resource to learn haskell, right?
01:17:58 <hpc> that was a type signature
01:18:54 <hpc> not everyone likes it, though mostly because it doesn't make you do exercises
01:18:59 <hpc> it just kind of talks about everything
01:19:18 <hpc> if you have a project to apply it to that's less of a problem
01:19:34 <hpc> it's how i learned initially
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01:20:51 <noteness> do you have any recommendations with exercises?
01:22:03 <noteness> <hpc> if you have a project to apply it to that's less of a problem | that's how i learned python! but i can't think of any project to do in haskell rn.
01:22:05 <hpc> whatever is able to hold your interest
01:23:58 <noteness> I meant like, any other alternative resources which also makes me do exercises/quizzes? (kinda like what Axman6 asks)
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01:24:47 <hpc> ah, i always link to https://www.haskell.org/documentation/ as my big list of resources
01:25:59 <noteness> ooo
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01:34:04 <Axman6> https://github.com/system-f/fp-course is the one that dibblego (and others) wrote, and we used to teach quite regularly - it's full of exercises, but it's not as easy to do without having instruction in person
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01:50:30 <monochrom> My http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/learn-sources.html is a shorter list, but it's items I know enough to comment on.
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02:49:42 <dmj`> noteness: typeclassopedia
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02:55:58 <Axman6> anyone know how to get ghcid to run your testsuite once your code compiles?
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03:00:53 <Axman6> looks like https://stackoverflow.com/a/63428301
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04:17:50 <Guest|44> I am trying to teach myself Haskell and have installed toolchain from GHCup, however I don't have the .hs extension to save code functions with my text editor. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling with the same result. How can I install the Haskell language-server?
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04:23:47 <cjay> Guest|44: if you use vscode, install the haskell extension from the built in extension store
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04:25:27 <cjay> any editor can save .hs files though. syntax hilighting and language server support vary.
04:25:57 <Guest|44> okay, thanks.
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04:30:04 <sm> > there's no way these very frequent reddit and chat requests for learning materials can capture all the existing resources. There are too many, and folks who know where they are get burned out reposting them. There have been many attempts to gather them, haskell.org/documentation being the most obvious, but none of them have fully succeeded. We could really do with some more systematic, scalable (crowd-sourced, lightweight) approach.
04:30:06 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:142: error: parse error on input ‘,’
04:30:24 <sm> any thoughts ? go away bot, the humans are talking
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05:30:35 <asivitz> any chance someone here is smart about macos framework stuff? bindings-glfw has `#include <Kernel/IOKit/hidsystem/IOHIDUsageTables.h>`, which I believe is looking into the Kernel framework. but the cabal file lists IOKit as a framework, but not Kernel
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05:31:20 <asivitz> but it compiles fine via cabal-install or stack. but not nix! is nix wrong? or is bindings-glfw wrong?
05:32:07 <asivitz> (reference link: https://github.com/bsl/bindings-GLFW/blob/master/bindings-GLFW.cabal#L189)
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08:26:42 <bahamas> what's an idiomatic way of handling a list that can't be empty? for example a list returned by Text.split
08:26:56 <Axman6> @hoogle NonEmpty
08:26:57 <lambdabot> module Data.List.NonEmpty
08:26:57 <lambdabot> Data.List.NonEmpty data NonEmpty a
08:26:57 <lambdabot> GHC.Base data NonEmpty a
08:27:23 <bahamas> Axman6: you mean I should convert it to NonEmpty?
08:27:37 <Axman6> if you can, you should return NonEmpty a if you know it can't be empty. group should be :: Eq a => [a] -> [NonEmpty a]
08:28:04 <Axman6> it really depends on what you're trying to do though
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08:28:31 <bahamas> Axman6: I just want to handle a list returned by Text.split
08:29:00 <Axman6> what do you mean by "handle"
08:29:04 <bahamas> Axman6: think to covert a string from snake case to camel case
08:29:34 <Axman6> like, you can just do case Text.split str of (x:xs) -> ...; _ -> error "the impossible happened"
08:29:52 <bahamas> I see
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11:30:57 <dragestil> what's the fastest sqlite client library?
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11:35:20 <jonathanx_> Is there an easy way to go from auto-derived Aeson ToJSON instances to manually written ones? Technically, it should be possible to generate them, but I don't know of a way to do it.
11:36:03 <geekosaur> -ddump-deriv should give you the generated code for derived instances
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11:36:27 <jonathanx_> cool :D
11:36:41 <tomsmeding> jonathanx_: are those auto-derived instances using Generics or using TemplateHaskell?
11:36:49 <jonathanx_> I'll google that flag to try to figure out where to put them
11:36:50 <jonathanx_> Generics
11:37:05 <jonathanx_> *where to put it
11:37:06 <geekosaur> oh, that'll suck more
11:37:15 <tomsmeding> then the expanded code (with -ddump-deriv) will just delegate the actual functionality to the generics infrastructure
11:37:18 <tomsmeding> i.e. you'll learn little
11:37:24 <geekosaur> yeh
11:37:24 <jonathanx_> oh
11:37:34 <jonathanx_> that's a shame
11:37:51 <geekosaur> and there will be no easy way to migrate because Generics doesn't do things anything like a manually written instance would
11:37:59 <tomsmeding> ^
11:38:33 <jonathanx_> I'm carily confident that it's possible to write a mnaual instance that matches the generic output
11:38:51 <geekosaur> oh, it's certainly possible. you just won't get any help doing it
11:38:58 <tomsmeding> in fact, the derived instance will be _empty_, I think, because it just delegates to the DefaultSignatures version
11:39:10 <jonathanx_> aw
11:40:21 <jonathanx_> does the TH version differ from the generic one? If the end result is identical then I could migrate to TH and then dump the derived instance
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11:40:45 <geekosaur> TH is a lot more like a manual instance
11:40:45 <tdammers> dragestil: are you sure the SQLite connectivity API is going to be your performance bottleneck? Because that'd be unusual.
11:40:47 <geekosaur> sigh
11:41:13 <tomsmeding> @tell jonathanx_ behaviour should be the same, and indeed the TH-generated instance _does_ migrate to a manual instance (use -ddump-splices instead)
11:41:13 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
11:41:19 <geekosaur> I was thinking sqlite itself would be more of a bottleneck than the API
11:41:55 <dragestil> tdammers: good point, I don't know. I'm more thinking along the lines of things like https://github.com/hdbc/hdbc-sqlite3/issues/10
11:42:14 <dragestil> s/thinking/wondering/
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11:43:11 <tdammers> right, yeah - but then again, unlike a client/server database, SQLite runs in the host's own process space, so this kind of "optimization" might not actually buy you all that much in the end
11:43:14 <tdammers> not sure though
11:43:31 <dragestil> ok
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11:44:44 <geekosaur> jonathanx, TH will be a lot more like a manual instance, and if you use -ddump-splices you can again retrieve the code it's writing for you
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11:45:05 <geekosaur> (and it will probably be faster than the Generics instance, to boot)
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12:09:27 <dminuoso> I want to generate structs like this: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/fdb358d4930096e6d9171a11d5bfcc7e
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12:09:41 <dminuoso> These are obviously not legal haskell constructors or field names.
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12:10:05 <dminuoso> I could rename them, but in the problem domain, people will more than likely want to refer to them by "Alc-Acct-OC-I-Inprof-Octets-Id"
12:10:09 <dminuoso> How do I get around this dilemma?
12:10:35 <tomsmeding> s/-/_/g ?
12:11:17 <dminuoso> Mmm
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12:12:45 <maerwald[m]> Is there a way to auto-generate quasi-quoters? 😅 Anything of the form `foo :: String -> Maybe a`
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12:14:14 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: So far Ive been toying with renaming, yes.
12:15:37 <dminuoso> Im just not very happy about it.
12:16:03 <dminuoso> OverloadedLabels is what Im exploring righ tnow
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12:33:18 <merijn> maerwald[m]: In general? No
12:33:28 <merijn> maerwald[m]: For some specific type convenient for you? Yes
12:33:41 <merijn> maerwald[m]: What are you trying to do?
12:34:00 <maerwald[m]> merijn: being lazy
12:34:14 <maerwald[m]> I want TH to write TH for me xD
12:34:32 <merijn> maerwald[m]: I mean, do you happen to be trying type-safe, partial, compile time conversion from String to some type?
12:34:53 <maerwald[m]> It's a parser
12:34:56 <merijn> Because, in that case, I already wrote the annoying boilerplate for you
12:35:18 <merijn> You can maybe generalise it to you specific usecase
12:35:29 <maerwald[m]> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/postgresql-syntax-0.4.1/docs/PostgresqlSyntax-Parsing.html
12:35:40 <merijn> https://github.com/merijn/validated-literals
12:35:56 <maerwald[m]> And since there are like 20 subparsers, it feels annoying
12:36:55 <merijn> maerwald[m]: You could consider making a Validate instance for all of those types or, alternatively, just rip off the code in that package
12:37:06 <merijn> It's like 144 lines, most of them docs anyway :p
12:38:47 <merijn> maerwald[m]: Hell, with the fromLiteralWithError you can even propagate the parse error as compile time error :p
12:40:02 <maerwald[m]> Right, so I could write a TH thing that writes the Validate instance for all the types
12:41:38 <maerwald[m]> Or via generic
12:41:47 <merijn> maerwald[m]: The Validate part doesn't require writing TH at all
12:42:03 <merijn> maerwald[m]: You can simply instantiate Validate class with a function "String -> Maybe a"
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12:42:34 <maerwald[m]> Then I still need a quasiquoter
12:42:51 <merijn> maerwald[m]: liftResults is the only function requiring TH to implement, but it has a default instance using Lift and Lift is derivable in modern GHC
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12:44:19 <merijn> ah, wait, I guess you want the quasiquoter instead of String literal for queries...
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12:45:01 <merijn> maerwald[m]: I mean, if you have a function "String -> Q Exp" then constructing a quasiquoter is fairly trivial
12:45:38 <merijn> Although adding convenient quasiquoter support to that package would be a good idea...
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13:28:35 <lortabac> what's the simplest way to do (Maybe a, b) -> Maybe (a, b)
13:29:01 <Hecate> oh dear
13:29:16 <merijn> 'strong' used to be in some library, but not anymore, I think
13:29:57 <merijn> Simplest is probably lambda?
13:30:10 <Hecate> lortabac: simple pattern-matching
13:30:11 <merijn> :t \(a, b) -> fmap (,b) a
13:30:12 <lambdabot> Functor f => (f t1, t2) -> f (t1, t2)
13:31:38 <geekosaur> sequence would do it if they were swapped
13:31:44 <lortabac> merijn: thanks, with TupleSections it's not too bad
13:32:11 <lortabac> geekosaur: actually maybe I can swap them
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13:32:29 <geekosaur> > sequence ("a", Just 5)
13:32:31 <lambdabot> Just ("a",5)
13:33:19 <tomsmeding> not too sure whether that's the most readable though :p
13:33:34 <lortabac> I need something like Biapplicative
13:33:38 <lortabac> does it exist? :D
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13:34:24 <Simon12> Hey guys
13:34:32 <Simon12> Today I come to visit with an logial question
13:34:51 <lortabac> apparently sequenceBia is a thing
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13:35:13 <Simon12> How can I display the Boolean function h(a,b,c) = (a * b) + c only with the NOR operator?
13:35:29 <lortabac> it's in the bifunctors package, but it's probably overkill for my simple use case
13:37:21 <merijn> lortabac: It does
13:37:27 <merijn> lortabac: I think it's even in base now?
13:37:47 <geekosaur> @index sequenceBia
13:37:47 <lambdabot> bzzt
13:38:04 <merijn> ah, it's just Bifunctor that's in base
13:38:30 <geekosaur> yeh
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13:42:16 <maerwald> merijn: how do I go from `Splice Q b` to `Q Exp`
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13:42:29 <merijn> maerwald: That's a no-op
13:42:36 <merijn> maerwald: It's a compat newtype
13:42:51 <merijn> For the change in GHC 9.2 (or 9.0?) where the type of splices changes
13:43:04 <maerwald> I don't understand, the types don't align
13:43:13 <merijn> maerwald: See th-compat
13:43:59 <merijn> maerwald: "Splice Q b" is just "Q (TExp b)" in old GHCs
13:44:10 <merijn> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-compat-0.1.3/docs/Language-Haskell-TH-Syntax-Compat.html#t:Splice
13:44:58 <maerwald> merijn: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/QGO9IAMZ
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13:47:06 <merijn> maerwald: Oh, right, yeah. Because I produce typed TH, you "untype" it via unType
13:47:09 <merijn> maerwald: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/template-haskell-2.18.0.0/docs/Language-Haskell-TH.html#v:unType
13:47:38 <maerwald> merijn: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/lskkpeCU ;)
13:47:45 <maerwald> TH sucks
13:48:11 <merijn> maerwald: No, you just didn't read the error ;)
13:48:17 <tomsmeding> <$>
13:48:22 <merijn> You have "Q (TExp a)", you need "Q Exp"
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13:48:27 <merijn> So you want "fmap unType"
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13:49:10 <merijn> but I assumed you'd be able to infer that from the error and my link :p
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13:50:33 <tomsmeding> that moment when hoogling for TypeRep -> Type gives you only 'unsafeCoerce'
13:50:59 <merijn> tomsmeding: RIP your sanity
13:51:02 <tomsmeding> does such functionality exist somewhere?
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13:53:17 <tomsmeding> ah https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-utilities-0.2.4.3/docs/TH-Utilities.html#v:typeRepToType apparently
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14:01:46 <maerwald> merijn: https://github.com/merijn/validated-literals/pull/7
14:03:05 <maerwald> that actually allows me to easily create quasi quoters from `readEither`
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14:06:08 <tomsmeding> uh oh, ghc panic saying "InScope {wild_00 $dQuote_aaQY $dTypeable_aaRc $dTypeable_sdCX}"
14:06:09 <merijn> I actually wanted to bug #ghc and check if there's typed QuasiQuoters yet (I think there should be?)
14:06:25 <tomsmeding> merijn: sanity decreases over time indeed
14:06:46 <maerwald> I blame long covid instead of my life-style
14:09:04 <merijn> maerwald: That's not quite how I'd see the quasi quoter, additionally it brings the complication that I'm not sure how you'd use a quasiquoter with arguments to get the quasiquoter
14:09:13 <maerwald> merijn: what?
14:09:43 <merijn> maerwald: Do you end up having to write "[quasiQuoter a b|...|]" to use that or what?
14:09:52 <merijn> That doesn't work, does it?
14:09:55 <maerwald> no, you create a top-level binding
14:10:19 <maerwald> s = quasiQuoter (Proxy :: Proxy String) (Proxy :: Proxy Int)
14:10:48 <maerwald> then: [s|123|]
14:11:05 <merijn> maerwald: Except you then can't use it in the same module
14:11:14 <maerwald> *shrug*
14:11:16 <merijn> maerwald: because quasi quoters can't be defined in the module they're used, afaik?
14:11:19 <merijn> Anyway
14:11:27 <merijn> I'll have a think about it tomorrow
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14:23:48 <tomsmeding> can I rely on '[] to produce the list _type_ and not the empty list _constructor_?
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14:24:22 <lortabac> tomsmeding: I think you have to remove the quote if you want the list type
14:24:36 <tomsmeding> lortabac: oh sorry, I meant in templatehaskell
14:24:41 <tomsmeding> like, ' being a name quote
14:24:48 <tomsmeding> Name quote, to be precise
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14:27:36 <lortabac> tomsmeding: sorry, I read that question out of context
14:27:42 <tomsmeding> (why does Type have a ListT constructor if actual list types are represented with ConT '[])
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15:24:06 <kritzefitz> tomsmeding: If I reify '[] it says DataConI instead of TyConI.
15:24:20 <tomsmeding> kritzefitz: indeed I found out that it picks the wrong one :p
15:24:49 <tomsmeding> now I wonder how I get the Name for the list type constructor without buiding a Name myself using (ModName "GHC.Types") etc
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15:25:05 <kritzefitz> ''[] seems to work for me.
15:25:12 <tomsmeding> oooooooooh
15:25:45 tomsmeding slaps head
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15:26:42 <geekosaur> that's what I just found in the TH docs, yeh
15:26:54 <geekosaur> thought I remembered that syntax
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15:30:07 <kritzefitz> It's kinda unfortunate that ''Name returns a data constructor if Name is not a type instead of throwing an error. I guess the reason for that has something to with DataKinds?
15:30:34 <geekosaur> probably
15:31:23 <tomsmeding> hm, ''Just doesn't seem to work for me
15:31:44 <tomsmeding> (DataKinds _is_ on)
15:32:16 <kritzefitz> Huh, indeed. I noticed that '(:) works and thought it works for all data constructors. (Data Kinds is _off_)
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15:32:34 <kritzefitz> err, ''(:) works.
15:32:50 <tomsmeding> interesting
15:32:58 <tomsmeding> maybe (:) is too hard-wired in GHC?
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15:44:05 <albet70> python generator/yield, ES6 Promise, Java 7 Future, kotlin coroutine, scheme callcc shift/reset, and haskell ContT, are they all same or similar?
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15:45:12 <c_wraith> albet70: there are two distinct ideas in there - coroutines and continuations.
15:46:02 <albet70> "🟢 c_wraith :albet70: there are two distinct ideas in there - coroutines and continuations.", continuation can implement coroutine
15:46:05 <c_wraith> you can implement coroutines with continuations, but they aren't the same
15:46:22 <c_wraith> continuations can implement any control flow pattern
15:46:27 <c_wraith> coroutines cannot
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15:52:08 <albet70> does ContT's callCC depends on lazy evaluations strategy?
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15:54:06 <albet70> I hope there's a common skill, if I can comprehend the concept then I can use lambda to implement then in different languages, that would be wonderful
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15:57:00 <albet70> I use Data.List's function to solve python list issues in work, it's very good, but python doesn't have Data.List so I have to "copy" them to python
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16:18:11 <dolio> No, callCC doesn't depend on lazy evaluation.
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18:51:21 <dminuoso> Staring at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/attoparsec-0.14.4/docs/src/Data.Attoparsec.ByteString.Char8.html#decimal - where does the Integral constraint come from? Im trying to understand how one can write code that produces a polymorphic Integral thing
18:52:00 <geekosaur> fromIntegral?
18:52:14 <dminuoso> Yeah but that produces something Num polymorphic
18:52:14 <geekosaur> where step … = … fromIntegral …
18:52:52 <geekosaur> that's why they constrain it
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18:53:33 <dminuoso> Ohhh darn, I didnt realize that Integral was a subclass of Num
18:53:36 <geekosaur> the parser is designed to parse digit strings, so the result must be at least some Integral
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18:53:48 <dminuoso> Kept looking at its superclasses and thinking "this has only Real and Enum, whats the link to Num"
18:54:07 <dminuoso> geekosaur: Honestly given the behavior, it might as well keep the Num constraint.
18:54:26 <dminuoso> Currently weighing in on an issue on attoparsec
18:57:13 <dminuoso> geekosaur: Thanks, the missing link was just that Num is a superclass of Integral. :)
18:59:25 <geekosaur> Num via Real
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19:29:15 <EvanR> :t digitToInt
19:29:17 <lambdabot> Char -> Int
19:29:50 <EvanR> naively, you only need Num to accumulate digits in some base into a number?
19:30:14 <EvanR> oof, the conversion from Int to number
19:30:15 <geekosaur> it's attoparsec over a ByteString so they're already Word8
19:33:24 <geekosaur> and it provides a bunch of SPECIALIZE for various Integral types, so this is also optimization
19:34:19 <dminuoso> https://github.com/haskell/attoparsec/issues/211
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19:35:38 <EvanR> agreed
19:36:09 <EvanR> some kind of bounds check is necessary during the parse for security, might as well be the real bounds check
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20:18:55 <dminuoso> Can forkIOWithUnmask itself ever fail?
20:19:24 <dminuoso> Ah I think I just want `async`
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20:42:11 <monochrom> :)
20:43:03 <monochrom> "Due to COVID-19, forkIOWithoutMask is temporarily an alias of forkIOWithMask until further notice." >:)
20:44:29 <EvanR> uninterruptible interruptible unmasking unless
20:45:15 <EvanR> janitor trips over power cord during an uninterruptible mask
20:46:25 <dminuoso> EvanR: Yeah about that, will uninterruptibleMask increase power consumption to weld the power cord into the PSU to cover that case?
20:46:38 <dminuoso> Seems like the logical thing to do
20:46:43 <monochrom> haha
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20:47:13 <monochrom> What if there is no PSU? Will it order one from Amazon? :)
20:47:49 <EvanR> ghc should ask halloween michael meyers how he implements uninterruptible sequels
20:48:28 <monochrom> "Hi my haskell program is blocking for no reason" <5 hours later> "OK strace says it's waiting for an Amazon delivery. Amazing!"
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20:49:21 <tomsmeding> monochrom: for certain values of "amazing"
20:49:38 <monochrom> "Except that I prefer Alibaba. Is there a config variable for that?"
20:50:20 <dminuoso> There's an LD_PRELOAD for that.
20:50:25 <monochrom> heh
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20:51:26 <EvanR> if the computer is blown up with auto destruct ordinance, but during an uninterruptible mask, it disturbingly reforms like a vampire movie
20:52:16 <monochrom> VampireT
20:52:52 <EvanR> is the 2nd law of thermo uninterruptible, use that somehow
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20:55:10 <dminuoso> If only we had an IOT, then we could use TardisT to send uninterruptibleMask back into the past.
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20:55:29 <dminuoso> Someone really ought to do some work on IOT. Maybe some poor PhD student?
20:55:45 tomsmeding . o O ( not me )
20:56:44 <dminuoso> But seriously, writing threads in Haskell is not fun.
20:57:13 <dminuoso> Trying to get this code right so no async exception can rip it apart.. *sigh*
20:57:57 <monochrom> I think IOT would be full of unsafePerformIO or worse.
20:58:08 <dminuoso> It would be full of unsafeUndoIO as well.
20:58:21 <monochrom> Haha
20:59:23 <monochrom> async those has already chosen its masking policy and doesn't expose that choice to high level use, no?
20:59:56 <monochrom> i.e., the API doesn't let you customize
21:01:15 <dminuoso> Right
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22:14:57 <misterfish> ong
22:15:10 <misterfish> sorry, pls disregard
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23:00:59 <EvanR> seems like IOT would require semantics for IO
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23:11:17 <sm> hey all, do you remember that past project aimed at collecting haskell links that was sort of a structured wiki/db app ? I'm forgetting its name
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23:21:18 <dmj`> sm: http://dev.stephendiehl.com/hask/ ?
23:21:45 <sm> no...
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23:23:49 <sm> but dang, isn't that an amazing document & isn't Haskell really big
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23:30:16 <EvanR> whoa
23:33:21 <shapr> sm: was it https://github.com/cohomolo-gy/haskell-resources ?
23:34:27 <sm> no.. but thanks for that too
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23:35:34 <shapr> sm: was it https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell ?
23:37:34 <sm> no. It wasn't an official resource, it was a private project by a community member, with an unusual name, a custom web app, each topic had a page, you could edit through the web (maybe)
23:38:06 <sm> and I believe they retired it in the last 2-3 years
23:38:35 <shapr> Any other keywords for my brain?
23:40:11 <sm> if I think of anything more I'll share.. it's coming closer..
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23:44:30 <sm> hoo.. tough one
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23:44:52 <Bulby[m]> hoo?!??
23:44:58 <Bulby[m]> my keyword for hoogle 😳
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23:47:30 <sm> I'm asking because it was an example of a more automated, scalable way of gathering haskell links, which I'm daydreaming about at https://github.com/simonmichael/haskell-links, in case anyone wants to help
23:48:46 <EvanR> Conclusions: The next ML will be pure, with effects only via monads. The next Haskell will be strict, but still pure. (Wearing the Hair Shirt: A Retrospective on Haskell)
23:50:24 <texasmynsted> sm: what about haskell.org
23:51:09 <texasmynsted> There are many Haskell links there, organized with context.
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23:53:19 <dmj`> EvanR: Why can't the next haskell be explicitly lazy, have row polymorphism, a modern backend while staying Haskell 98 ?
23:54:07 <EvanR> because SPJcold said so
23:55:10 <sm> texasmynsted: yes there are, and I mention it in the quote at the top, as not fully succeeding. It links a small fraction of the resources out there
23:56:23 <sm> @where books
23:56:23 <lambdabot> https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/learn-sources.html, see also @where LYAH, RWH, YAHT, HFTVB, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, HTAC, TwT, FoP,
23:56:23 <lambdabot> PFAD, WYAH, non-haskell-books
23:57:03 <sm> I'm thinking of something like a cross between @where and https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books
23:58:27 <texasmynsted> oh I see.
23:58:41 <EvanR> from /hask doc above "If you find yourself falling back on [Template Haskell] ask yourself, what in my abstractions has failed me such that my only option is to write code that writes code." loving it xD
23:58:53 <texasmynsted> How about a haskell link twitter feed?
23:59:06 <texasmynsted> New link every day?
23:59:30 <sm> shapr: got it! https://guide.aelve.com
23:59:49 <sm> texasmynsted: that's a good idea too, if it doesn't already exist

All times are in UTC on 2022-05-10.