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| 01:18:04 | <dragestil> | does anyone know how I can `cabal build` base? I was able to `cabal configure` with cabal-2.4.1.0/ghc-8.6.5/base-4.12.0.0, but not with cabal-3.6.2.0/ghc-9.2.2/base-4.16.1.0 (getting the "only already installed instances can be used" error) |
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| 01:28:48 | <geekosaur> | dragestil, you can't. base is wired into the compiler and must match versions with it and be built along with it. you need to downgrade ghc to a version that has the version of base you want |
| 01:30:12 | <geekosaur> | base 4.12.0.0 is ghc 8.6.5 |
| 01:31:01 | <dragestil> | geekosaur: well I was able to build 4.12.0.0 with ghc 8.6.5. my ghc 9.2.2 comes with base 4.16.1.0, so it should build 4.16.1.0, no? |
| 01:31:39 | <geekosaur> | you may be able to build it. the compiler has baked-in references to the base it expects, and will fail to link with any other version |
| 01:32:00 | <geekosaur> | seriously, there is a reason cabal refuses to let you do this |
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| 01:32:59 | <dragestil> | geekosaur: that's fine. I just want to *build* it, not *install* it |
| 01:33:27 | <dragestil> | but cabal is refusing to even `configure` it |
| 01:33:30 | <geekosaur> | then you get no promises |
| 01:35:09 | <pavonia> | dragestil: What do you want to do with the built base package? |
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| 01:51:16 | <Bulby[m]> | How the heck does lens `view` work with non monadic values |
| 01:51:40 | <dragestil> | pavonia: I'll run queries on it using cabal-helper |
| 01:52:32 | <jackdk> | Bulby[m]: Instance `MonadReader r ((->) r)` |
| 01:52:44 | <Bulby[m]> | \o/ witchcraft |
| 01:53:24 | <Bulby[m]> | I wish polysemy interoped with mtl better, esp. MonadState, MonadReader, and MonadWriter |
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| 01:53:32 | <dragestil> | geekosaur: so it sounds like an arbitrary restriction placed by cabal |
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| 01:55:58 | <geekosaur> | make sure you complain to the cabal maintainers, then, instead of blaming me |
| 01:56:28 | <dragestil> | geekosaur: I wasn't blaming you |
| 01:57:56 | <sclv> | i doubt cabal could build it tbh. the wired in-ness would clash with the existing base |
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| 01:58:22 | <dragestil> | I'm guessing anything from the ghc repo, including base / template-haskell / etc. cannot be built directly using cabal |
| 01:59:04 | <dragestil> | even if I get the packages from `cabal unpack` rather than `git clone` |
| 01:59:40 | <geekosaur> | base, ghc-prim, template-haskell, ghc are pinned and can't be built by cabal. other things included with ghc and copied into its repo, like bytestring and process, can |
| 02:00:12 | <sclv> | reinstallable base is a long term design goal of ghc but things are not close |
| 02:00:16 | <dragestil> | sclv: I was able to build ghc-8.6.5, base-4.12.0.0 and ghc-prim-0.5.3 with ghc-8.6.5/cabal-2.4.1.0. it sounds like a regression in feature to me |
| 02:01:33 | <dragestil> | ok "build" is a bit of stretch for ghc-prim-0.5.3. I got some minor error eventually, but the build was usable with cabal-helper |
| 02:03:01 | <dragestil> | geekosaur: what do you mean by pinned? is this pinning written somewhere in the code? |
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| 02:04:00 | <geekosaur> | yes, there is code that restricts those libraries to the installed versions thereof |
| 02:04:24 | <dragestil> | ok |
| 02:04:42 | <dragestil> | is it cabal-install code? |
| 02:05:14 | <sclv> | hrm maybe the check can be weakened a bit in special circumstances. but i wonder why one needs cabal install to do this. do ./setup.hs configure and build and etc work |
| 02:05:23 | <sclv> | but also what is the purpose of this |
| 02:05:43 | <sclv> | like why would cabal helper want to use this |
| 02:06:37 | <dragestil> | cabal helper itself does not require a built base, but I'd like to use cabal-helper to query a built base |
| 02:07:25 | <sclv> | don’t the ides have another way to query base? |
| 02:08:41 | <dragestil> | I'm not aware of ides querying base |
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| 02:11:06 | <dragestil> | sclv: how do I use run Setup.hs with configure? I tried runghc Setup.hs |
| 02:11:51 | <sclv> | “rungh Setup.hs configure” |
| 02:12:06 | <dragestil> | ah found some docs in the cabal user guide |
| 02:12:18 | <sclv> | or just build it and then ./Setup configure slash build slash install |
| 02:12:29 | <dragestil> | ok |
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| 02:13:44 | <dragestil> | `runhaskell Setup.hs --help` in the base source dir gives me "attempting to use module ‘main:Prelude’ (./Prelude.hs) which is not loaded" |
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| 02:18:07 | <dragestil> | lol all I needed to build base was a flag --allow-boot-library-installs |
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| 02:18:43 | <dragestil> | found it in a cabal-install test case |
| 02:19:03 | <sclv> | nice! |
| 02:19:50 | <sclv> | pr to the cabal docs (if its not listes clearly) very welcome |
| 02:19:56 | <sclv> | er listed clearly |
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| 02:20:37 | <dragestil> | sclv: yeah, now I see it in the cabal user guide |
| 02:21:51 | <dragestil> | thanks for the help geekosaur sclv |
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| 02:22:23 | <sclv> | i’m glad i learned about the flag! |
| 02:29:25 | <dragestil> | looks like the base from cabal unpack is missing an /include/UnicodeVersion.h, but copying the file over from the ghc repo fixed it |
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| 10:10:45 | <merijn> | :O |
| 10:10:47 | <merijn> | https://coot.me/posts/cabal-haddock-project.html |
| 10:10:56 | <merijn> | Doing the lord's work |
| 10:11:14 | <merijn> | Finally I will have a usable way to browse docs locally again! |
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| 10:23:11 | <__monty__> | merijn: It's doable using a local hoogle instance if you want something ASAP, BTW. |
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| 10:58:25 | <dragestil> | a texinfo haddock backend is what counts counts as lord's work for me |
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| 11:47:31 | <merijn> | __monty__: local hoogle is a massive PITA |
| 11:48:12 | <merijn> | __monty__: Before v2-build you just got a nice local index page that had every local package to browse, but with the global store docs are build, but not easily findable/browsable, which this seems to fix |
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| 11:54:35 | <__monty__> | Ah, that might certainly be. I've never had to go through the pain because someone wrote withHoogle for the Nixpkgs Haskell infra. |
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| 13:48:48 | <dragestil> | I don't understand the issue. Is it that local hoogle does not link to local haddock? |
| 13:49:51 | <merijn> | dragestil: The issue is that there is no easy way to find the local haddocks |
| 13:50:03 | <dragestil> | merijn: i see |
| 13:50:04 | <merijn> | dragestil: They're all installed in subdirectories of the global store |
| 13:50:38 | <merijn> | dragestil: In "the old days" there was a single index.html you could open in your browser and have access to the docs of every single package on your system. Which was super convenient |
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| 13:50:57 | <dragestil> | that was nice |
| 13:51:05 | <merijn> | dragestil: But since the global store means multiple (potentially conflicting) installs of the same package, such a single global index does not exist |
| 13:51:16 | <merijn> | That PR is adding it so that you can easily make one for a specific cabal.project |
| 13:51:50 | <dragestil> | merijn: ok, but that still only links to all packages in a cabal.project? |
| 13:52:00 | <dragestil> | not exactly the global store |
| 13:52:35 | <geekosaur> | the global store poses problems, like multiple versions of the same package which haddock doesn't handle that well |
| 13:52:39 | <dragestil> | actually I don't know what is the global store. is it the output of `ghc-pkg list`? |
| 13:53:01 | <geekosaur> | no, it's the level above that |
| 13:53:26 | <dragestil> | is there a command line listing all the packages in the global store? |
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| 13:53:54 | <geekosaur> | they're just directories under ~/.cabal/store |
| 13:53:55 | <merijn> | dragestil: "ls ~/.cabal/ghc-x.y.z/" :p |
| 13:54:05 | <[Leary]> | It seems to me like it shouldn't be difficult to have the haddocks from the new-style build dist linked against the haddocks of the particular packages it built against. I mean, that's how nix does everything. |
| 13:54:09 | <geekosaur> | one per stored package |
| 13:54:35 | <merijn> | dragestil: So for every project it will compute an independent build plan. And what you want is "access to docs of every package of this project's build plan" |
| 13:54:37 | <geekosaur> | [Leary], I believe that's what the PR does? |
| 13:54:54 | <[Leary]> | Oh, good then. |
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| 13:55:26 | <[Leary]> | Or rather, I'm surprised it wasn't already doing so. |
| 13:55:29 | <merijn> | [Leary]: Sure, all the pieces are there. But someone has to put them together in a convenient way, which seems has now happened |
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| 13:55:48 | <merijn> | [Leary]: Well, it's a bit of an annoying problem and was lower priority than finishing and shipping v2-build |
| 13:56:03 | <geekosaur> | anyway haddock treats module names as unique keys, so as soon as you have multiple versions of a package in the store a global index would break |
| 13:56:48 | <geekosaur> | it'd have to become more like hackage, letting you pick package versions from the store |
| 13:57:20 | <dragestil> | so can you build a local hackage? |
| 13:58:50 | <merijn> | dragestil: I mean, you can. But that's more work than you want for just browsing some static docs |
| 13:59:06 | <geekosaur> | there are packages that help you do it, but it's a pretty heavyweight solution. I mean just the version selection page, not a whole hackage-alike |
| 13:59:07 | <merijn> | At least, more work than *I* wanna do |
| 13:59:29 | <geekosaur> | and turning a cabal store into a hackage store would itself be quite a lot of work |
| 13:59:29 | <dragestil> | right, i mean something as simple as invoking a few commands like `cabal configure --enable-documentation` |
| 13:59:48 | <geekosaur> | that creates docs but currently doesn't link them anywhere |
| 13:59:58 | <geekosaur> | again, that's what the new PR does |
| 14:00:38 | <merijn> | dragestil: Right now each package has *its own* docs as html in the package directory in the store |
| 14:01:02 | <merijn> | dragestil: But the crosslinking to other packages is wonky (if not broken?) and you can't easily browse/access them |
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| 14:01:43 | <dragestil> | merijn: really? `find ~/.cabal/store -iname "*.html"` returns nothing |
| 14:02:19 | <merijn> | dragestil: Well, they are if you have doc building enabled by default, like me :p |
| 14:02:45 | <dragestil> | lol i se |
| 14:02:46 | <dragestil> | e |
| 14:02:50 | <merijn> | Which I still have, because in the past that gave me the global browsable index |
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| 14:03:51 | <dragestil> | well I just wish I have haddock as info manuals |
| 14:04:10 | <dragestil> | so anyone who writes a texinfo haddock backend will earn my eternal gratitude |
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| 14:06:51 | <dragestil> | geekosaur: those packages you mentioned that can turn haddocks into hackage, can you name one? |
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| 14:08:21 | <geekosaur[m]> | That wasn't what I said. You asked about local Hackage |
| 14:08:48 | <geekosaur[m]> | I'll have to get back to my desk to look |
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| 14:09:23 | <dragestil> | geekosaur: ok thanks |
| 14:09:33 | <geekosaur[m]> | Local Hackage is fairly common for commercial developers |
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| 14:12:29 | <dragestil> | ok. if I had more disk space / bandwidth i might just wget / rsync the official hackage weekly |
| 14:13:18 | <merijn> | hackage isn't even super big, so :p |
| 14:13:51 | <dragestil> | how big is it though? hundreds of gigs? |
| 14:13:56 | <merijn> | lol |
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| 14:14:07 | <merijn> | If I had to estimate I'm guessing single digit gigabyte |
| 14:14:21 | <dragestil> | fair enough |
| 14:14:32 | <merijn> | You could ask in #haskell-infrastructure someone there should know the exact number |
| 14:15:06 | <merijn> | I'm about 80-90% confident all of hackage is very "would fit on a single USB stick"-sized |
| 14:15:26 | <merijn> | even a small one |
| 14:15:54 | <dragestil> | time to sell shrinkwrapped hackage dvds |
| 14:20:12 | <geekosaur> | back to the early 90s :) |
| 14:21:42 | <boxscape> | merijn: dragestil I have a `hackage` directory on my PC from July last year which I believe contained all packages at the time - albeit only their newest versions - and is just under 2GB in size |
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| 14:22:40 | <dragestil> | boxscape: cool, that's very encouraging |
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| 14:23:30 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hackage-server is hackage itself. I think https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hackage-mirror still works because the underlying stuff hasn't changed much |
| 14:24:51 | <dragestil> | nice |
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| 14:28:37 | <geekosaur> | I still don't think I'd set up a local Hackage just for docs though. easy enough to use a browser keyword to go straight to the docs on hackage itself :) |
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| 14:30:45 | <__monty__> | geekosaur: Only gotcha is getting the docs for the correct version. |
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| 14:31:22 | <geekosaur> | true |
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| 14:32:31 | <dragestil> | some of the hackage pages can take long to render in eww, which is why I don't like the html format |
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| 14:33:41 | <geekosaur> | actually, I wonder if a hackage-lite could be made for documentation. leave out most of the backend, since I think the landing page for a package is generated solely from its cabal file and the rest requires only haddock documentation |
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| 14:34:03 | <geekosaur> | although I think I may have just described flora |
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| 14:34:56 | <dragestil> | ideally there should be an emacs package that concats docstrings in a similar way as haddock, and can integrate with haskell-mode (no, hls is just too slow) |
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| 14:35:51 | <geekosaur> | well, not entirely true, various badges from the landing page come from building the package |
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| 14:37:47 | <dragestil> | *too slow for a 6 year old laptop, to be fair |
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| 14:38:37 | <geekosaur> | true. mine is a bit newer but I still avoid HLS |
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| 15:45:24 | <Bulby[m]> | is pattern matching against a tuple of bools lazy? i.e. if the first match is `(True, _)`, the second isn't evaluated |
| 15:46:19 | <geekosaur> | to that extent it will be lazy |
| 15:46:34 | <Bulby[m]> | \o/ then i'm ok with that |
| 15:46:42 | <geekosaur> | it will match strictly the tuple constructor and the first element; the second will remain unevaluated |
| 15:46:59 | <Bulby[m]> | that's fine with me 🙂 |
| 15:47:22 | slack1256 | gets surprised everytime he remember glirc shows emojis |
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| 15:48:16 | <Bulby[m]> | oh, not like that helps. I should just write a nested if |
| 15:49:02 | <Bulby[m]> | it won't help because the right side is monadic |
| 15:49:11 | <geekosaur> | I would argue against a tuple of Bools for other reasons, though; it's pretty much an invitation to boolean blindness |
| 15:52:20 | <geekosaur> | I keep forgetting I can send them ☺ |
| 15:52:29 | <geekosaur> | granting it's not a fancy one |
| 15:53:43 | <geekosaur> | sadly (this version of?) hexchat doesn't have an emoji menu, so I have to pop up the charmap scratchpad to get a decent one |
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| 15:58:51 | <Bulby[m]> | any people with a cli client probably frustrated whenever someone sends an emoji |
| 15:58:58 | <Bulby[m]> | I know it borks my console |
| 16:00:13 | <geekosaur> | if it's smart enough it can use wcwidth. but you need both client support and terminal support and they need to agree about which characters are wide |
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| 16:00:25 | <geekosaur> | it's a pain |
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| 16:23:45 | <Bulby[m]> | how do I combine two lenses |
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| 16:26:02 | <Bulby[m]> | i.e. "fetch a list, then _Cons that list |
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| 16:30:08 | <geekosaur> | (.) or (&) depending on direction |
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| 16:30:27 | <geekosaur> | the neat thing about lenses is they're just functions |
| 16:30:37 | <geekosaur> | and they compose like functions |
| 16:31:09 | <Bulby[m]> | i guess mine is a bit borked because i'm trying to combine them under `use` (which I wrote myself, but is the same type signature as the actual use |
| 16:32:21 | <Bulby[m]> | i don't even think they are both lenses lol |
| 16:32:27 | <Bulby[m]> | 1 is `_Cons` |
| 16:32:33 | <Bulby[m]> | which is a prism |
| 16:33:35 | <geekosaur> | mm, combining different optics can be more difficult, yes. |
| 16:33:54 | <geekosaur> | someone else would have to answer there, I'm still a beginner at lenses |
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| 16:36:40 | <Bulby[m]> | `(^? _Cons) <$> use l` gives me the type sig I want (Sem r (Maybe (a, [a]))) |
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| 16:43:06 | <sm> | #haskell-lens:libera.chat will know |
| 16:43:28 | <Bulby[m]> | of course it has it's own channel lol |
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| 17:00:38 | <lyle> | I'm no expert, but https://github.com/jwiegley/putting-lenses-to-work has a .pdf with many examples of how to use lenses. |
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| 17:01:33 | <lyle> | I'm not jwiegley, just someone who stumbled on it. |
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| 17:19:28 | <Bulby[m]> | haskell-lens requires a nickname registered |
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| 17:21:55 | <dsal> | I've never used `use` |
| 17:22:47 | <dsal> | This is a pretty good book as well: https://leanpub.com/optics-by-example/ |
| 17:23:28 | <dsal> | Ah, `lens` is state stuff. I don't do a lot of state stuff with lens. |
| 17:24:47 | <lyle> | Will RecordDotSyntax affect how much lenses are used? |
| 17:25:17 | <dsal> | Possibly. It's a rather poor replacement for lenses in my experience. |
| 17:25:34 | <sm> | lens really aren't used that much now, are they |
| 17:26:11 | <dsal> | Lots of people who run projects are afraid of lenses even when they are the clearest, most efficient, and most obvious way to do things. |
| 17:26:41 | <lyle> | They do help with the problem of accessing deeply nested data structures, but I think RecordDotSyntax does too. |
| 17:26:44 | <sm> | does GHC use them, eg ? |
| 17:27:50 | <dsal> | RecordDotSyntax, AFAICT, won't help you with prisms or folding and traversing which is almost always required when dealing with a data structure sufficiently non-trivial that you might consider lenses. |
| 17:28:45 | <lyle> | dsal: Yes, that's my understanding as well. RecordDotSyntax will only replace very basic lens use. |
| 17:29:12 | <Bulby[m]> | oh, traversals nicely combine at least for `modifying` |
| 17:35:33 | <mrianbloom> | Is there a nice way to say that every subtype of a GADT has an instance of a particular typeclass? |
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| 17:43:33 | <dsal> | I'm having trouble figuring out how to make a hard link. Does anyone know where I can find an implementation of link? |
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| 17:46:05 | <Cale> | mrianbloom: If you mean that, given a value x :: MyGADT a, you can show that you have an instance C a, then yes, see constraints-extras |
| 17:47:21 | <mrianbloom> | I'll take a look thanks. |
| 17:47:33 | <geekosaur> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/8.10.7/docs/html/libraries/unix-2.7.2.2/System-Posix-Files.html#v:createLink |
| 17:47:40 | <Cale> | You can write (Has c MyGADT) to mean exactly the above |
| 17:47:43 | <geekosaur> | dsal ^ |
| 17:48:22 | <dsal> | geekosaur: Awesome, thank you! |
| 17:48:23 | <Cale> | and then has x (...) will let you use the instance inside the (...) expression |
| 17:48:56 | <dsal> | Oh wow. I had that doc up on that section in a different tab and didn't see it. Good day to be writing code. |
| 17:54:53 | <dsal> | Neat. That just saved me around 100GB of unnecessary copying, I think. |
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| 20:05:45 | <Guest27> | If you're developing a Cabal library package and an executable that depends on that library, is it better practice to put both in one package or have the executable as a separate package that depends on the library? |
| 20:06:42 | <geekosaur> | generally both in one package, so you can test it properly (otherwise you may have to export internals for use by the executable's test suite) |
| 20:07:10 | <Guest27> | Makes sense, thanks |
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| 21:03:17 | <FixedPointDude> | getting haskell to work with vscode lately has made me feel like a bumbling incompetent |
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| 21:24:45 | <maerwald[m]> | FixedPointDude: why |
| 21:25:10 | <maerwald[m]> | dminuoso: did he pick up his laptop? Lol |
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| 23:48:23 | <mon_aaraj> | jackdk: Thank you very much! I've realized a lot of that code seemed familiar to me and it turns out most of it can be seen in his blog, though I didn't know about that talk. |
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| 23:50:32 | <Axman6> | jackdk always gives good advice |
| 23:50:53 | <jackdk> | Axman6: and yet you still haven't started using Nix for literally everything |
| 23:50:56 | <jackdk> | :P |
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| 23:51:23 | <Axman6> | you still haven't managed to pull of a "hey, look at this cool thing I did in Nix" without it failing :P |
| 23:51:33 | <mon_aaraj> | haha, guess it's very common for us haskellers to be using nix as a solution for package management |
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| 23:52:24 | <mon_aaraj> | unfortunately after updating NixOS it seems my touchpad stopped working so I had to go back to my imperative distro |
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| 23:53:52 | <Haskelytic> | Why is everyone so excited about Nix |
| 23:54:44 | <hpc> | it tries to solve packaging in ways that look a lot like how haskell solves programming |
| 23:54:59 | <Axman6> | it has a lot of promise in providing a lot of extremely useful properties, like only ever compiling the same thing once, knowing exactly what is installed on a system and being able to reliably replicate it, and because of that, checking the integrity of a system is fairly trivial too |
| 23:55:05 | <hpc> | and there's not a whole lot else like it, so it's interesting to learn |
| 23:55:49 | <Haskelytic> | so basically it tries to extend functional programming to system administration? |
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| 23:55:57 | <Axman6> | having a single way to configure all the different services etc. on your system is pretty handy |
| 23:56:07 | <mon_aaraj> | Well, not really functional programming |
| 23:56:12 | <Axman6> | in a way, but I'm not sure that's the main take away |
| 23:56:51 | <Haskelytic> | that seems like an awfully ambitious project IMO |
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| 23:56:57 | <Haskelytic> | maybe in 5 years I'll try it :) |
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| 23:58:32 | <geekosaur> | in 5 years something else will be the go-to :) |
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| 23:59:16 | <Haskelytic> | ye olde package management never gets old :) |
| 23:59:52 | <hpc> | sometimes it seems it never gets old because it's born old |
All times are in UTC on 2022-06-13.