Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-06-17 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:15:59 <Axman6> @pl (\l a b -> a:l b (a+b))
00:15:59 <lambdabot> liftM2 (.) (:) . (. (+)) . ap
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02:05:58 <Axman6> unclechu: I can't see an easy way of doing that sadly
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02:09:51 <Axman6> unclechu: actually, I take that back, there is a way - if you use a monad which is an instance of https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-client-core-0.19/docs/Servant-Client-Core-RunClient.html#t:RunClient then you get access to the request itself - so if your app uses a monad transformer the ClientM monad, then you can intercept the Requests (and the responses) and use that for logging
02:10:56 <Axman6> Then I think you just need to use `hoistClient` to take the accessor functions returned by `client` to hoist those into your monad
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02:12:18 <Axman6> Personally I would use something like ReaderT ClientEnv ClientM a
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02:49:39 <prolic> hi there. I have some troubles with stack's docker integration, and wonder if somebody can help.
02:50:08 <prolic> I have a Dockerfile from which I build, there is some extra C lib compiled from source inside, that I need for my project
02:50:44 <prolic> when I run `stack --docker-image=mynewimage build` - it complains about my C lib not being found.
02:51:14 <prolic> when I enter the container with `docker run` I can verify that my c-lib is installed and available
02:51:18 <prolic> what am I missing?
02:57:18 → causal joins (~user@50.35.83.177)
02:58:21 <c_wraith> I think pkg-config is used to locate system libraries - is it registered in the pkg-config database?
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03:00:12 <prolic> nope, but I have `extra-lib-dirs:   /usr/local/lib` specified in my package.yaml file, and this is sufficient to build without docker
03:00:53 <c_wraith> Darn. You're deep into docker stuff then.
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03:01:58 <prolic> checking `pkg-config --list-all` from inside the container lists my c-lib
03:02:05 <prolic> so it's there
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03:02:55 <prolic> I can even build the thing from inside the container manually, but since it's a GUI application, it's not that easy to run from inside, lol
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03:12:01 <prolic> ok I think I got it
03:12:16 <prolic> it seems like it's not respecting the extra-lib-dirs at all, when in docker-mode
03:12:31 <prolic> symlinking the file to /usr/lib and it can find it
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03:26:36 <prolic> I raised an issue here, if somebody is interessted: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/5768
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05:48:37 <zero> newtype State s a where State { runState :: s -> (s,a) } :: State s a
05:48:56 <zero> why is this a parse error on "{" ?
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05:52:19 <jackdk> Do you have `{-# LANGUAGE GADTSyntax #-}` or anything which implies it?
05:52:37 <zero> i have GADTs
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05:55:14 <[Leary]> zero: State :: { ... }
05:55:27 <[Leary]> -> State s a
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06:02:31 <zero> [Leary]: that syntax actually makes more sense. was it updated?
06:02:42 <zero> it works
06:04:54 <zero> http://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/6.6/docs/html/users_guide/gadt.html
06:05:55 <zero> or am i missing something?
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06:07:26 <[Leary]> Oh, so that used to be valid syntax. Honestly, I wasn't aware. (ghc 6.6 is ancient history)
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06:14:51 <Axman6> I thingk GHC 6.6 was my first compiler, possibly 6.4
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06:44:47 <tomsmeding> zero: why are you looking at the docs for ghc 6.6 :p
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07:05:57 <zero> oh my bad
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09:16:10 <sm> @where+ stack-system-ghc https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/yaml_configuration/#system-ghc to use only system/ghcup GHC, configure system-ghc:true, install-ghc:false
09:16:10 <lambdabot> Done.
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10:33:36 <lisbeths> is there an abstract machine at the core of haskell?
10:36:19 <tomsmeding> lisbeths: GHC has a number of intermediate languages between Haskell and machine code: Core, STG and Cmm. Core is a minimal functional language that is still haskell-like, and is where most optimisations happen. STG is probably most like an "abstract machine"; it is in a sense what assembly would have been if processors were purely functional. Cmm is really just high-level assembly.
10:36:54 <tomsmeding> STG is a weird thing though
10:37:12 <lisbeths> which one of those is closest to the SECD machine and also which one of those is the smallest in terms of file size and memory footprint
10:37:55 <tomsmeding> what even is SECD
10:38:13 <tomsmeding> ah
10:38:55 <tomsmeding> lisbeths: isn't SECD intended for _strict_ functional languages
10:39:29 <tomsmeding> I guess you could say that STG is the SECD for lazy functional languages, but I really don't know enough of either to say for sure
10:40:11 <tomsmeding> I liked this intro to STG, in case you're curious: https://github.com/quchen/stgi (note the bottom of the page: this STG is slightly different from the one that GHC actually uses)
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10:42:18 <tomsmeding> yes SECD sounds very much based on call-by-value on a cursory reading of wikipedia
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11:05:35 <lisbeths> what is the memory footprint of stg what is its filesize
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11:08:07 <tomsmeding> I have no clue, why do you want to know?
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11:08:42 <tomsmeding> also, those questions aren't even really well-defined; STG is an intermediate language without a fixed serialisation scheme
11:08:57 <heinz9> there seem not to be so many linux haskell programs
11:09:12 <heinz9> xmonad, git annex
11:09:36 <hpc> as opposed to cross-platform haskell programs?
11:09:46 <heinz9> in general
11:09:51 <gentauro_> what does this mean -> `Warning: Directory listed in elm-format.cabal file does not exist: generated` when `ls -l` -> `-rw-r--r-- 1 johndoe users 2161 Jun 17 13:05 elm-format.cabal`?
11:10:05 <gentauro_> did `cabal` go loco?
11:10:14 gentauro_ gñe
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11:10:56 <gentauro_> oh, my bad
11:11:12 <gentauro_> so there is some files in the `.cabal` file that are not part of the project got it …
11:11:15 <gentauro_> xD
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11:18:23 <sm> heinz9: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31664490
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11:20:57 <heinz9> can ghc convert any haskell program in C ?
11:21:28 <heinz9> so that gcc can compile it to all architectures it supports?
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11:22:40 <turlando> You can emit LLVM IR and then use all the backends LLVM supports
11:22:56 <heinz9> is this a yes?
11:23:13 <turlando> I think there is or was a C backend but it is deprecated (maybe someone with better internals knowledge can tell)
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11:23:39 <heinz9> ah
11:23:49 <heinz9> so its not C but some whatsoever language
11:23:53 <turlando> If the question is "can I get C out of haskell code" the answer is probably no
11:24:11 <heinz9> but not human readable
11:24:24 <heinz9> and llvm can bring it to all architectures it supports. Right?
11:24:25 <turlando> If the answer is can I use any architecture LLVM supports the answer is theoretically maybe
11:24:33 <heinz9> ah
11:24:35 <turlando> s/answer/question
11:24:38 <heinz9> thx
11:25:16 <heinz9> what else can llvm do with it
11:26:08 <turlando> heinz9: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/9.2.3/docs/html/users_guide/codegens.html
11:26:14 <int-e> Yeah, there's -keep-hc-file -fvia-C and I would expect it to be fairly bitrotten... never used it myself (except in pre-NCG days) though.
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11:47:46 <kuribas> turlando: there is no LLVM IR for the runtime system, is there?
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11:47:57 <kuribas> Will not be much use without that.
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11:57:31 <tomsmeding> most of the RTS is C, but there is a little bit of assembly too, apparently
11:58:16 <tomsmeding> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/rts/adjustor/NativeAmd64Asm.S
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12:38:39 <geekosaur> re getting C out of ghc, -fvia-C is long since gone. there's still unregisterised mode, which requires you to build ghc yourself (it's disabled in release builds)
12:39:32 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: do you happen to know why that's called "unregistered" mode? The name never made sense to me
12:40:14 <geekosaur> unregisterised nmode. because it doesn't use registers like native asm does, so it's significantly slower
12:40:24 <tomsmeding> oh
12:40:36 <tomsmeding> it stores everything on the stack?
12:40:52 <geekosaur> yes
12:41:19 <tomsmeding> well, unless the C compiler moves stuff to registers anyway
12:41:40 <tomsmeding> which I guess is unlikely maybe given the code that ghc produces
12:41:41 <sm> @where loginataka
12:41:41 <lambdabot> "The Loginataka: Dialogue between a Guru and a Newbie" (aka "So You Want To Be A Wizard?") by Eric S. Raymond at <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/loginataka.html>
12:41:43 <geekosaur> which it does poorly for ghc because it's not optimized for Haskell code :)
12:41:51 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: right
12:42:06 sm proposes to delete the above (not haskell related, clutters up my faq search
12:42:35 <tomsmeding> sm: what keywords does it clutter
12:43:06 <sm> tomsmeding: I mean the https://haskell-links.org/?q=faq search
12:43:22 <tomsmeding> ah lol
12:43:39 <tomsmeding> the background colours there have become... opinionated :p
12:44:03 <sm> oh you don't like the purple ? :) Taken from haskell.org
12:44:34 <tomsmeding> the purple in itself is fine (though a bit strong, maybe), but the gradient at the top _really_ accentuates that it is purple
12:45:55 <sm> I got tired of endless anonymous white pages, wanted to make the page a little memorable. New designs welcome!
12:46:37 <tomsmeding> it's cool, I'm not complaining, was just surprised at the presence of actual personality on a tech page :p
12:49:42 <tomsmeding> sm: maybe I like this a bit better, not sure to be honest linear-gradient( rgb(234,229,237) 2em ,rgb(213,204,220) 10em ,rgb(194, 174, 205) )
12:49:57 <tomsmeding> but your call
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12:56:27 <sm> tomsmeding: thanks! Now to debug deployment..
12:56:40 <sm> amazing how bits rot
12:56:45 <tomsmeding> :D
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13:02:05 <sm> finally
13:02:19 <tomsmeding> yay
13:02:25 <tomsmeding> it's kinder
13:03:22 <tomsmeding> I even got credit in the css
13:03:38 <tomsmeding> be it positive or negative :D
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13:04:59 <sm> 👍️
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13:23:08 <BusConscious> Hello everyone I need functionality similar to openat(2): When I first open, then dupTo openedFd openatFd and finally close openedFd, ...
13:23:16 <BusConscious> will this behave similar?
13:24:34 <BusConscious> again more of a unix question
13:24:56 <geekosaur> you will probably need to bind to openat via FFI
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13:27:50 <BusConscious> oh no :(
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13:29:59 <BusConscious> So the issue with my approach is, that it's not creating openatFD out of thin air or is it also, that openatFd will be killed when I close openedFd?
13:30:27 <BusConscious> anyways would have been too good to be true
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13:33:27 <geekosaur> as long as you're working with fds, there';s no difference between doing it in haskell vs. doing it in C. just don't do fdToHandle until you're done playing at the fd level
13:34:48 <geekosaur> (which is also no different than in C, you don't fdopen() until you're done playing with the fds)
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14:25:48 <BusConscious> So capi is the FFI I should use right?
14:26:15 <geekosaur> that's the recommended one these days, yes
14:26:47 <geekosaur> ccall is more direct but has a bunch of shortcomings since it's a raw asm call and all too often C functions are secretly macros or etc.
14:27:16 <geekosaur> (back in the day ghc compiled via C, so ccall was better behaved)
14:27:36 <BusConscious> Is there any minimal working example for calling a c library function using capi? In the wiki they document ccall ..
14:28:32 <geekosaur> it's what the wiki shows with "ccall" replaced by "capi", and "{-# LANGUAGE CApiFFI #-}" up in the pragmas
14:28:56 <geekosaur> because, as I just said, ccall used to be capi
14:30:02 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: is there any reason to use ccall nowadays?
14:30:26 <geekosaur> not really. ghc hq is strongly recommending that people use capi instead of ccall
14:30:39 <BusConscious> geekosaur: ok thank you CAPiFFi in addition to ForeignFunctionInterfaces?
14:30:43 <tomsmeding> yes
14:30:45 <geekosaur> yes
14:30:49 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: I see
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14:32:37 <alexhandy2> Sorry, I have a provoking thesis.
14:33:00 <alexhandy2> Isn't Haskell Programming the opposite of what clean code wants?
14:33:14 <alexhandy2> Please do not be angry 😠 at me for asking that
14:33:53 <alexhandy2> With Haskell you can create a lot acrobatic fancy fun code
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14:34:33 <alexhandy2> But with clean code the result has often to become as boring as much, because at should become readable
14:34:33 <[exa]> alexhandy2: depends on what "clean code" wants -- precise aims of it are a bit obscure to me tbh
14:34:42 <geekosaur> you can but even in haskell it's not recommended to be too clever. we have the same problem of "if you don't understand what you wrote 6 months on, you've screwed yourself" that any other language does
14:35:36 <alexhandy2> Is haskell less readable as imperative code?
14:35:44 <[exa]> no
14:36:06 <[exa]> (^ doesn't imply that imperative code is less readable than haskell tho :D)
14:36:08 <geekosaur> any new language is less readable than what you're used to. as you learn haskell it'll become more readable
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14:37:50 <alexhandy2> Shouldn't you also learn haskell for if you switch back to, say 💭 c++, you are cleverer for it's functional part, when this becomes important - for example in parallisation, where functional programming is a great choice
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14:41:22 <[exa]> alexhandy2: yeah it really helps with grasping various subtle or high-level constructions and code properties that are sometimes not very visible in the other languages
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14:42:11 <hololeap> https://github.com/ekmett/semigroupoids/commit/b81b16b810fa5051fee0230588492c9acd627921#diff-77507da988cd1f93e6d2f259d07e37a2c0a7afa3982d555faeddb9a42b37ddb7R385-R388
14:42:27 <hololeap> why doesn't the Apply instance for CPS.WriterT at least require (Semigroup w)?
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14:44:04 <alexhandy3> I received no answers
14:44:29 <alexhandy3> had internet problems
14:45:00 <geekosaur> [17 14:41:22] <[exa]> alexhandy2: yeah it really helps with grasping various subtle or high-level constructions and code properties that are sometimes not very visible in the other languages
14:45:26 <geekosaur> alos see the channel topic for a log
14:45:40 <geekosaur> *also
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14:56:28 <hololeap> huh, I guess CPS.WriterT only requires (Monoid w) when you run it
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15:11:54 <haskell_apprenti> Hi I have a question about understanding a foldl error
15:12:27 <haskell_apprenti> If I do > foldl (flip const) 0 "burritos" I get the error "No instance for (Num Char) arising from the literal ‘0’"
15:13:03 <haskell_apprenti> As I understand it, in the spine traversal before evalutation, the expression becomes foldl (flip const) 0 "burritos" = foldl (flip const) ((flip const) 0 'b') "urritos"
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15:13:58 <haskell_apprenti> so I thought if anything, the error would be that (flip const) takes type Num -> Char -> Char then takes the type Char -> Char -> Char in subsequent evalutation
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15:14:52 <geekosaur> you have a misunderstanding of typeclasses
15:14:59 <geekosaur> there is no "type Num"
15:15:45 <geekosaur> the literal 0 has a type: `Num a => a`. so it can take on any type that is an instance of Num.
15:16:04 <geekosaur> the next thing it sees in that position is a Char, so it looks for a Num instance for Char and doesn't find it
15:16:10 <[exa]> shortest way to trigger the same error:
15:16:12 <[exa]> > 0 :: Char
15:16:14 <lambdabot> error:
15:16:14 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num Char) arising from the literal ‘0’
15:16:14 <lambdabot> • In the expression: 0 :: Char
15:16:58 <haskell_apprenti> right Num is a typeclass, I knew that before. But there would still be an error if it expected a Num typeclass and got a Char
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15:17:39 <geekosaur> there is. it's the error you got
15:17:51 <geekosaur> because typeclasses do not work the way you think
15:18:01 <haskell_apprenti> so @exa that's a case where it expects a Char but gets a Num a => a type
15:18:18 <[Leary]> haskell_apprenti: foldl wants an (a -> b -> a). You give it an (a -> b -> b). The conclusion is that a = b.
15:18:27 <geekosaur> you can define a Num instance for Char (not very usefully, but) and then it would work
15:18:35 <[Leary]> Hence 0 :: Char, and your error.
15:19:36 <haskell_apprenti> [Leary] ah interesting take ok. I'm curious where exactly the error would occur in execution though
15:20:06 <[Leary]> It's a type error; it doesn't reach execution?
15:20:11 <haskell_apprenti> seems to me the error should be when foldl gets to 'u'
15:20:45 <geekosaur> type errors happen at compile time. it doesn't have to wait until execution to realize there's a mismatch
15:21:03 <geekosaur> [Leary]'s first line shows you how that works
15:21:45 <[exa]> haskell_apprenti: it sees the problem right from the type -- the type dictates that the return value of the folding function, "zero seed" value and return value of the whole fold must have the same type. In your case, the seed value has type `Num a => a`, which haskell tries to unify with Char, getting `Num Char => Char`, which is unfortunately invalid because `Num Char` can't be satisfied as the instance
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15:21:51 <[exa]> is missing
15:22:07 <haskell_apprenti> ah ok - so for my own clarity, haskell compiler sees this - foldl wants an (a -> b -> a). You give it an (a -> b -> b) - so already knows both types must be Char, so throws an error immediately when given instance of Num typeclass>
15:22:09 <haskell_apprenti> ?
15:22:29 <geekosaur> after searching for a Num instance, yes
15:22:52 <geekosaur> there's nothing built into the compiler defining `Num`, you could in fact define a Num instance for Char
15:23:06 <geekosaur> it'd behave weirdly, but you could do it
15:24:19 <haskell_apprenti> [exa]: ah ok
15:24:23 <[exa]> spoiler: `0` in fact desugars to something like `fromInteger (0::Integer)`
15:24:36 <haskell_apprenti> all these comment's are clarifying, thanks for all of your input
15:24:44 <[exa]> and `fromInteger` is defined in the Num class. :]
15:25:25 <haskell_apprenti> (y)
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15:33:25 <BusConscious> How can I construct a Int32 from an Int?
15:33:35 <geekosaur> fromIntegral
15:35:29 <exarkun> watch out for overflow of course
15:37:09 <geekosaur> yes, fromIntegral does no testing for values fitting in the result
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16:09:06 <BusConscious> exarkun: finally YOLOed all types into each other :P
16:09:19 <exarkun> :)
16:09:40 <exarkun> I heard about a nice library for type converstion a while ago ... on Haskell Weekly News podcast I think. I wonder if I can remember its name.
16:10:01 <exarkun> It had some magic-oriented theme. witches or casting or something.
16:10:18 <exarkun> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/witch-0.3.4.0/docs/Witch.html I guess
16:10:24 <exarkun> have no tried it
16:11:17 <tomsmeding> Witch?
16:11:21 <tomsmeding> ah you found it already
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16:11:59 <tomsmeding> there is also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/int-cast-0.2.0.0/docs/Data-IntCast.html
16:12:21 <BusConscious> Other question: How can I import macros in FFI? It doesn't link against those if I treat them like functions despite it saying that somewhere on the web
16:12:36 <tomsmeding> are you using capi?
16:12:41 <BusConscious> yes
16:13:18 <tomsmeding> have you defined the macro yourself or is it coming from a system header?
16:13:27 <BusConscious> system header fcntl.h
16:13:39 <geekosaur> then include that header in the declaration
16:14:59 <tomsmeding> like `foreign import capi "fcntl.h YOURMACRO" c_whatever :: Whatever`
16:15:15 <BusConscious> ah
16:15:23 tomsmeding doesn't like the syntax
16:17:27 <BusConscious> error: called object is not a function or function pointer
16:17:27 <BusConscious> 8 | HsInt32 ghczuwrapperZC0ZCmainZCExecZCOzuAPPEND(void) {return O_APPEND();}
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16:18:03 <tomsmeding> ah sorry
16:18:12 <tomsmeding> "fcntl.h value O_APPEND"
16:18:15 <tomsmeding> docs: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/ffi.html#extension-CApiFFI
16:18:44 <BusConscious> aah
16:19:30 <BusConscious> thank you
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16:25:36 <tomsmeding> quite a while ago someone in this channel pointed me to ghc's user guide, the existence of which I had up to that point only been faintly aware of
16:26:19 <tomsmeding> because in contrast to physical things, for software I'm usually not looking for user manuals -- I look for manpages, wikis, --help output, etc
16:27:01 <BusConscious> I had it open earlier this day and then lost the tab
16:27:09 <tomsmeding> but it turns out ghc's user guide is actually pretty great; especially the extension listing page is something I have in a very easily accessible bookmark. So thanks to that person, whoever it was :p
16:28:05 <c_wraith> that might have been me. I direct people there somewhat often, because it really does have a ton of good info.
16:28:26 <tomsmeding> yes it may well have been you indeed
16:28:46 <tomsmeding> I remember hpc or monochrom saying that they've read the whole thing front-to-back; I'm not likely to do that any time soon, but I know to reach for it now
16:28:58 <c_wraith> I certainly haven't done that!
16:29:37 <tomsmeding> I guess if you're a tenured professor you can indulge in such things :p
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16:33:22 <tomsmeding> I wonder if `ghc --help` should put the user manual notice more to the top
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16:47:21 <BusConscious> general Haskell noob Q: Say I have functions f1::a->b and f2::a->c and f3: b -> c -> d. Now i want to concatenate f3 . f1xf2 :: a -> d
16:47:29 <BusConscious> How can idiomatically do this?
16:49:35 <tomsmeding> @pl \x y -> f3 (f1 x) (f2 x)
16:49:36 <lambdabot> const . liftM2 f3 f1 f2
16:49:41 <tomsmeding> answer, don't
16:49:51 <tomsmeding> just write f3 (f1 x) (f2 x)
16:50:02 <tomsmeding> oh um
16:50:07 <tomsmeding> @pl \x -> f3 (f1 x) (f2 x)
16:50:07 <lambdabot> liftM2 f3 f1 f2
16:50:09 <tomsmeding> that, of course
16:50:41 <tomsmeding> you _can_ write that, but for clarity's sake, you shouldn't -- that liftM is in the function monad, which is notorious for producing compact, unreadable code
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16:51:36 <BusConscious> I knew it would be something like that
16:52:07 <tomsmeding> if you're masochistic:
16:52:16 <tomsmeding> :t \f1 f2 f3 -> uncurry f3 . (f1 &&& f2)
16:52:18 <lambdabot> (a1 -> a2) -> (a1 -> b) -> (a2 -> b -> c) -> a1 -> c
16:52:32 <tomsmeding> but don't use that
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16:53:29 <zero> uncurry f3 .
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16:53:35 <BusConscious> So liftM2 f3 f1 f2 is about as short as it gets and \x y -> f3 (f1 x) (f2 x) is about as clear as it gets
16:53:47 <tomsmeding> BusConscious: yes, without the y, because that was a mistake on my part
16:54:06 <BusConscious> yes
16:54:11 <BusConscious> without the y
16:54:20 <tomsmeding> it's not even that much longer :)
16:54:53 <tomsmeding> f3<$>f1<*>f2 is technically 3 characters shorter
16:55:07 <tomsmeding> but not with proper spacing :p
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17:37:06 <yuv4199> Hi, is there a way to trick GHC into resolving constraints from data kinds and type families like so: it figures out that `k ~ 'B` from context `'A ~ App k k'` (the type family `App` only has one equation with rhs `'A` like so: `App 'B 'B = 'A`)?
17:37:43 <yuv4199> At first I thought it was because the family was partial but it doesn't matter if I add another kind constructor `Illegal` it's the same. Small example: https://pastebin.com/Ax8Y4ynz
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17:52:00 <[Leary]> yuv4199: https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/type_families.html#injective-type-families
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19:34:46 <BusConscious> are there any constants defined in haskell for possible values of FileMode in System.Posix.Types if I don't want to use FFI?
19:38:54 <EvanR> I see some here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unix-2.7.2.2/docs/System-Posix-Files.html
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19:42:16 <BusConscious> EvanR thanks that's what i was looking for
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22:03:13 <dsal> Does anyone know of a thing to asciify characters? e.g. ñ -> n ?
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22:07:30 <geekosaur> I think iconv has a mode to do that
22:07:50 <geekosaur> $ echo abc ß α € àḃç | iconv -f UTF-8 -t ASCII//TRANSLIT
22:07:50 <geekosaur> abc ss ? EUR abc
22:08:45 <dsal> Neat. Thanks.
22:10:24 <dsal> That makes ü -> "u
22:10:27 <dsal> But it's pretty close.
22:11:51 <geekosaur> surprised it's not ue, given what it does to ß
22:12:29 <dsal> Yeah. it was a bit weird.
22:13:20 <kaol> ü is used in more languages than DE and it may not be correct for them.
22:13:55 <geekosaur> but arguably "u is correct for none o them
22:13:56 <dsal> It's pretty close. I can always toss some special cases in before calling the lib.
22:13:58 <geekosaur> *of
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22:16:31 <dsal> That gave me a pointer into my codebase that specifically avoids iconv on macos (where I tried it) for some reason. Might be related. In any case, turns out I've got a lib I need. :)
22:16:38 <EvanR> ñ -> n is also incorrect xD
22:18:04 <hpc> there's probably some locale thing you can do to make the necessary tweaks?
22:18:05 <geekosaur> you're going to lose regardless with any downconversion to ascii
22:18:36 <geekosaur> macos's iconv is different
22:18:42 <hpc> stuff that applies to unicode with a zillion ambiguous special cases always has locales involved somewhere
22:19:00 <geekosaur> it's an old bsd iconv, I don't know if it even supports this much less how well
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23:10:10 <sayola> is there some way to have ghc pick whatever works whenever types are ambiguous?
23:10:40 <sayola> like it does for some prelude classes like Show
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23:12:48 <geekosaur> I presume yiou're talking about defaulting. ExtendedDefaultRules allows it to work for more typeclasses, but it still has to involve a typeclass and it still has to resolve to a type listed in a `default` declaration (defaulting to (Integer,Double))
23:13:36 <geekosaur> and giving ghc too much rope will cause it to default to something useless like unit/()
23:15:39 <EvanR> I'm afraid "whatever works" would act like javascript
23:16:06 <EvanR> because it would do something, I then "works" was a lie
23:16:11 <EvanR> and then
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23:19:22 <geekosaur> yep
23:19:41 <geekosaur> and no, there's no "escape to javascript" mode
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23:25:29 <sayola> aww :>
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23:27:19 <sayola> i think i have to look into defaulting a bit more. so far, ExtendedDefaultRules picked defaults that didnt even work, even though there is at least one combination of types that do work.
23:27:39 <geekosaur> I did say it will probably pick (), which is useless
23:28:07 <geekosaur> it does not have every type in the program at its disposal, it has only what you declare in a `defaults` declaration, as I already said
23:28:16 <geekosaur> sorry,m `default` declaration
23:28:31 <sayola> yes, thats what i have to look into.
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23:30:41 <sayola> oh and with not work, i meant it picks types that then dont fit any instance anymore for a user-defined class. so it fails compiling, not just pick useless stuff.
23:32:22 <sayola> i wish it would at least pick useless stuff
23:34:00 <geekosaur> it's going to fail compiling anyway, because this is haskell
23:36:10 <sayola> it works just fine when i annotate all types D:
23:36:16 <geekosaur> yes
23:36:56 <geekosaur> most things can be inferred. some can't and you end up adding an annotation somewhere. you might show your code…
23:37:00 <geekosaur> @where paste
23:37:00 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
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23:43:52 <sayola> nice paste site
23:43:56 <sayola> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/pubYHDCU
23:44:19 <sayola> its kinda madness. but wanna figure out how far i can take it.
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23:46:22 <sayola> also tried some fundeps, but it made the instances illegal, since they are not all implying much
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23:47:40 <sayola> the test is on purpose pointless. its just about whether it would compile at all.
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23:49:44 <sayola> making the test work without all the type annotations is what i'm looking into right now
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All times are in UTC on 2022-06-17.