Logs on 2022-07-24 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:23:59 | <dsal> | qrpnxz: prisms for parsing? |
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| 00:26:54 | <qrpnxz> | yeah. I have a some data that if it's the right shape i can turn it into a value of a different more specialized type. I don't lose any information in that transformation so i can always transform it back into the more general type. Well I can make a prism out of that. Imagine for example you have JSON (holds any JSON) and JSONObject (Represents only JSON object), you could make prism _JSONObject |
| 00:26:56 | <qrpnxz> | on that |
| 00:27:45 | <qrpnxz> | or _EvenJSONInteger to get slightly more interesting |
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| 00:29:19 | <qrpnxz> | In my real code i have this generic tagged struct thing that holds it's members in a vector. I have created now prism to turn that into a particular Object that struct represents. It's pretty nice because the prism end up looking just like a prism for a real constructed of the monolithic data type |
| 00:29:35 | <qrpnxz> | i could even go a step further and create a `pattern` with it |
| 00:30:16 | <qrpnxz> | dsal |
| 00:31:42 | <qrpnxz> | s/constructed/constructor |
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| 00:33:00 | <dsal> | hmm... I think that makes sense. It sounds like you're doing a few passes at parsing. |
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| 00:37:52 | <qrpnxz> | what do you mean a few passes |
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| 00:44:24 | <dsal> | Like parsing a bytestring to an Aeson Object and then to something else. |
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| 00:50:47 | <qrpnxz> | ah right yeah. If you didn't care about that structure in the middle, you could parse directly. But sometimes it makes sense to have multiple stages of representation that you care about. Like raw bytes to utf8, then utf8 to JSON, from JSON to some particular object that you care about with particular fields. It's a pipeline for sure. |
| 00:51:58 | <qrpnxz> | i mean, even if you didn't care to keep around that bit in the middle, still helpful for implementing the upper layers. i wouldn't want to parse some object directly from raw bytes, i'm gonna leverage the parsers in between |
| 00:52:12 | <qrpnxz> | if possible |
| 00:52:27 | <Haskelytic> | quick question: can you have derived instances for your own typeclasses or is derivation some GHC magic |
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| 00:53:57 | <qrpnxz> | GHC can figure out derived instances on non-base classes sometimes. Like if it's just a wrapper, ghc should be able to figure out that the wrapper is an instance if the inner is an instance, even if it's your brand new custom type class |
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| 01:12:58 | <Haskelytic> | If I have an expression for triples like so `(toEnum x1, toEnum x2, toEnum x3)` is there a terser way to write it? |
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| 01:14:22 | <Haskelytic> | I was thinking using the Reader applicative but I can't see it...maybe I'm wrong |
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| 01:24:42 | <monochrom> | No. |
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| 01:29:08 | <qrpnxz> | he already gone, but that's what i was gonna say too haha |
| 01:29:37 | <monochrom> | Oops didn't notice |
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| 03:16:57 | <naso> | when i do `cabal run --enable-profiling project-exe --ghc-options="-fprof-auto -rtsopts" -- +RTS -p`, are all the ghc-options (for executable or library) listed in my .cabal also included, or do I have to include them here too? |
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| 04:57:17 | <wallymathieu> | I'm having a bit of trouble with the size of the Haskell installation. Once I install stack and do write some things it usually ends up at 50+GB. Any hints for how to avoid so many versions? |
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| 05:12:00 | <Lycurgus> | others will respond differently, on point |
| 05:12:33 | <Lycurgus> | but i'd say adjust ur expectations, it appears you are using multiple levels of stuff |
| 05:13:01 | <Lycurgus> | 50 GB aint that much these days and haskell isn't a minimalist lang |
| 05:13:22 | <Lycurgus> | famously, it's like a java or cobol for maths |
| 05:13:30 | <dsal> | 50 GB of RAM? |
| 05:13:40 | <Lycurgus> | oh |
| 05:14:04 | <dsal> | My brain completely inserted that and I can't figure out how. heh |
| 05:14:18 | <Lycurgus> | dsal, i don't think so people don't install to RAM |
| 05:14:35 | <Lycurgus> | in general |
| 05:15:03 | <dsal> | I use nix so it's magic and I don't necessarily know how big it is. |
| 05:15:42 | <Lycurgus> | 'magic' isn't a work i ever use, and especially not for nix/nixos of which I'm a known detractor |
| 05:15:50 | <Lycurgus> | *word |
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| 05:16:07 | <dsal> | Yeah, it either makes things a lot easier, or a bit harder. Depending on perspective. It makes things easier for me. |
| 05:16:10 | <Lycurgus> | since i'm something of a bore about that kind of thinking |
| 05:16:26 | <Lycurgus> | (i.e. magic, spirits, etc.) |
| 05:16:31 | <dsal> | I've got a lot of projects on a lot of versions of a lot of things. |
| 05:17:17 | <Lycurgus> | i used it heavily at the start of the last decade when the problem it was meant to address was still a thing |
| 05:17:40 | <Lycurgus> | and when it started that problem was fulminant |
| 05:18:42 | <Lycurgus> | it's approach tends to be irresistible for haskellers, way back I assumed it would catch on in hs land and it did |
| 05:19:27 | <dsal> | It's helpful for all my projects that have weird stuff. javascript, elm, etc.. Things I don't want to remember how to get the right versions of more than once. |
| 05:20:02 | <Lycurgus> | i do containers under regular LSB |
| 05:21:13 | <Lycurgus> | i may be due for a review of current state of nix/nixos |
| 05:21:47 | <Lycurgus> | the principal fugly was jamming ill conceived ports into nixpkgs |
| 05:23:17 | <EvanR> | 50 gigs, that's all? nice |
| 05:23:47 | <EvanR> | also try ghcup instead of stack to install ghc and see if your milage varies one way or the other |
| 05:28:02 | <dsal> | I don't like containers much, and I am not on Linux or intel chips for a lot of my dev. |
| 05:28:59 | <wallymathieu> | I'll look into ghcup 🙂 |
| 05:29:46 | <dsal> | I believe it was Jay Z who said, "What's 50 gigs, could you please remind me?" |
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| 05:31:03 | <Lycurgus> | not into rap but I'm guessin that was a ref to competing rapper 50 cent |
| 05:31:18 | <wallymathieu> | 50 gigs of disk. Perhaps it's that I'm kind of stingy in that I've not bought a machine with lots of disk |
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| 05:31:52 | <dsal> | Lycurgus: It was "What's 50 grand…" because he has so much money that's not a significant amount. Kind of like disk space. |
| 05:32:01 | <Lycurgus> | ah |
| 05:32:03 | <dsal> | wallymathieu: I've had similar issues in cloud instances, though. |
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| 05:37:56 | <wallymathieu> | It's weird. When I was a kid, the problem was to have enough space for games, now it's packages and programming languages |
| 05:38:51 | <dsal> | games aren't much smaller :) My cousin gave me an xbox and I bought Red Dead Redemption. Put the disc in and it said it needed to download 80GB before I could start playing. |
| 05:41:42 | <Lycurgus> | also the situation is different for a deployment target vs a dev host |
| 05:42:31 | <dsal> | Yeah, I've been deploying in the cloud with nixos+cachix. Much easier than trying to build out a build system. |
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| 05:43:01 | <dsal> | I would actually like to figure out how to build a docker image, but that's an uphill battle I'm not sufficiently motivated to figure out. |
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| 05:48:12 | <Lycurgus> | dockerfiles are no harder than the nix lang |
| 05:49:03 | <Lycurgus> | it's not comparable to learning hs |
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| 05:51:53 | <dsal> | Sure. I could build a gigantic image that includes all the things. I'd like to be able to build something smaller. I know there are some good tools, but I haven't been bothered to learn them. |
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| 06:47:23 | <sm> | wallymathieu: 50G sounds excessive. You must have a lot of old cruft, use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stack-clean-old to review and clean up. |
| 06:48:25 | <Haskelytic> | or you could just `rm --no-preserve-root -rf /` |
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| 06:49:26 | <sm> | don't do that |
| 06:49:35 | <Haskelytic> | yeah jk don't run that lol |
| 06:49:58 | <sm> | I wouldn't even write such things as a joke |
| 06:50:22 | <Haskelytic> | i'm pretty sure the `--no-preserve-root` stands out enough to deter anyone |
| 06:50:23 | <sm> | on the day you accidentally paste and run such a thing you'll feel the same :) |
| 06:50:53 | <Haskelytic> | joke's on you, I don't copy paste as a principle :) |
| 06:52:23 | <sm> | but one day you screw up |
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| 06:52:49 | <sm> | ah never mind, I hope not |
| 06:53:37 | <Haskelytic> | imagine one day we have AI assistant to double check commands :) |
| 06:53:46 | <Haskelytic> | kind of like a nanny, but for your terminal |
| 06:54:38 | <Haskelytic> | then it backfires and stops you from running your C compiler because it's unsafe |
| 06:54:54 | <Haskelytic> | and you have to prove to the AI that you know what you're doing |
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| 06:58:19 | <Haskelytic> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.6.0.4/docs/src/Control.Monad.Trans.State.Lazy.html#line-211 |
| 06:58:25 | <Haskelytic> | `~(f, s') <- mf s` |
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| 06:58:59 | <Haskelytic> | how does this work? `mf :: s -> m (a,s)` so the tuple is wrapped in `m` |
| 06:59:04 | <Haskelytic> | how can you pattern match there |
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| 07:00:02 | <wallymathieu> | Last time I checked "sudo rm -rf /" does plenty of damage |
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| 07:01:40 | <Haskelytic> | ah nvm im an idiot |
| 07:01:47 | <Haskelytic> | didn't notice the `<-` lol |
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| 07:02:48 | <Haskelytic> | Interesting that the Applicative for `State s a` is implemented in terms of its Monad |
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| 07:06:15 | <jackdk> | That is often easier than cranking out the `Applicative` instance by hand, and always legal. |
| 07:08:52 | <Haskelytic> | I see. Is that because of the relationship Applicative f => Monad f |
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| 07:16:43 | <jackdk> | Specifically the law that `m1 <*> m2 = m1 >>= (x1 -> m2 >>= (x2 -> return (x1 x2)))`; the RHS is the definition of `ap` |
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| 07:17:30 | <Haskelytic> | ah right |
| 07:17:37 | <Haskelytic> | I remember seeing that mentioned in the docs |
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| 12:59:01 | [itchyjunk] | rips hair |
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| 13:01:17 | <geekosaur> | ? |
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| 13:02:10 | <[itchyjunk]> | It's a problem i've solved in the past but my brain is refusing to cooperate :x |
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| 13:10:51 | <[itchyjunk]> | I managed to produce the same wrong answer 4 different ways. That has to count for something.. |
| 13:11:26 | <[exa]> | what's the problem though |
| 13:11:53 | <[itchyjunk]> | split string based on ' ' |
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| 13:12:08 | <[exa]> | as in `wordsOn ' '` ? |
| 13:12:22 | <[exa]> | (uh I mean normal 'words' :D) |
| 13:12:36 | <[itchyjunk]> | https://bpa.st/QUVA |
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| 13:13:56 | <[exa]> | looks like you are trying to solve the problem with "1-level" recursion while it in fact requires 2 levels (as it produces [[Char]]) |
| 13:14:20 | <[itchyjunk]> | hmmmmmm |
| 13:14:23 | <[exa]> | (like, ofc you can do in 1 level but the amount of extra code is just annoying) |
| 13:14:59 | <[itchyjunk]> | two level recursion.. what's a good place to read and introduction to this concept |
| 13:15:22 | <[itchyjunk]> | i know what you mean but it feels like im not familiar with this concept and i should work on that then this problem.. |
| 13:15:42 | <[itchyjunk]> | because i've solved this before but i clearly missed this 2 level recrusion |
| 13:15:46 | <[exa]> | now this is pure guesswork because I didn't see your code, but it looks like you're trying to consume the input string by chars |
| 13:16:01 | <[exa]> | while you in fact want to consume the input string by words, which you can not patternmatch |
| 13:16:04 | <[itchyjunk]> | i tried a few different thing. like use if else, list comprehension etc |
| 13:16:20 | <[exa]> | did you try to use `span` ? |
| 13:16:21 | <[itchyjunk]> | for example [ [x] <- str | x \= ' ' |
| 13:16:25 | <[itchyjunk]> | ] |
| 13:16:26 | ← | jakalx parts (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 13:16:52 | <[exa]> | in particular, `span (== ' ')` and `span (/= ' ')` |
| 13:17:22 | <[itchyjunk]> | hm, if that works, my if else should have as well. must be a logical error in my thinking then |
| 13:17:24 | <[exa]> | (span is recursive itself, which hides the inner level for you) |
| 13:17:45 | <[itchyjunk]> | https://bpa.st/277A |
| 13:18:08 | <[itchyjunk]> | ah, maybe i'll try to write a `mySpan` and learn level 2 recursion that way |
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| 13:18:30 | <[exa]> | the logic is: 1] if you can cut out a word, cut it out, produce output, continue 2] if you can cut out whitespace, cut it out, produce nothing, continue, 3] if there's nothing left, produce nothing, terminate. |
| 13:19:22 | <[itchyjunk]> | that sounds familiar, hmm |
| 13:19:59 | <[exa]> | hint: case span (== ' ') input { ([], rest) -> ... } |
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| 13:20:13 | <[exa]> | you might find a nice encoding into pattern guards |
| 13:20:14 | <[itchyjunk]> | @_@ |
| 13:20:20 | <[itchyjunk]> | :t span |
| 13:20:21 | <lambdabot> | (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) |
| 13:20:44 | <[exa]> | span is basically takeWhile and dropWhile combo |
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| 13:22:04 | <[exa]> | btw my hint was probably not legal haskell, I'm too lazy to open ghci, sorry :D |
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| 13:27:14 | <[itchyjunk]> | boh, i'll try this later! |
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| 13:29:46 | <[exa]> | anyway the main problem in your solution is simply that `go` produces a singleton ("x" for some letter x) that is output and can't be extended later with more letters. You need something that eats the whole word recursively. `span` (or `break`, which is basically the same) is a nice way to do that. :] |
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| 19:52:43 | <qrpnxz> | I've been comparing different effect stack approaches. As we "know", with MTL you have to define all these pass-through instances. ReaderT dictionary passing is nice because you just define the one Has instance, but it's a bit akward choosing the monad for the actions you pass in and integrating that with the eventual real stack if you don't want to do everything via IO (or if you want control |
| 19:52:44 | <qrpnxz> | monads), and majorly it bothers me that that's what type classes are supposed to be (dictionary passing) and in that case you are just doing what that language feature is specifically designed for which is dictionary passing. I just tried something nice which is to define an overlappable instance for a transformed monad that automatically passes through the effect. Works nice! Tried it with a |
| 19:52:46 | <qrpnxz> | simple greeter class. Defined a couple of different transformer implementations, and indeed i can run one or the other and it works, and i can insert arbitrary transformers below and above them and it works. So if your effect commutes, you can just define a universal pass-through, if it doesn't then you specifically implement the instances that make sense. |
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| 20:03:48 | <qrpnxz> | you could also have passthrough as a default impl in the class then writing the passthroughs can be as easy as `instance Class` |
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| 21:34:50 | <qrpnxz> | the `streaming` lib readme is freaking hilarious. I keep re-reading it. |
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| 21:37:56 | <monochrom> | Hrm, I spotted "_ListT done right/". Note the _ and /. Someone could not make up their mind whether it's _ListT done right_ or /ListT done right/ haha |
| 21:38:21 | <monochrom> | ```markdown done right``` |
| 21:38:34 | <monochrom> | err not funny enough |
| 21:38:39 | <monochrom> | ```markdown done right,,, |
| 21:39:57 | <qrpnxz> | i was wondering about that lol, good hypothesis |
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| 21:40:57 | <qrpnxz> | maybe they wrote '_ListT done' in vim and 'right/' on emacs :) |
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| 21:41:55 | <monochrom> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fourmolu has a funny bit too. It roasts ormolu. |
| 21:43:25 | <monochrom> | Hrm the funny bit is gone in recent versions. |
| 21:43:54 | <monochrom> | Go to https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fourmolu-0.0.6.0 and look for "requires you to fork the project to configure it" :) |
| 21:44:19 | <qrpnxz> | "respectful: true"' lmao what |
| 21:45:01 | <qrpnxz> | but in ourmolu "respectful: false" lol |
| 21:45:44 | <monochrom> | hahaha now that's something |
| 21:46:08 | <qrpnxz> | yeah, funny one |
| 21:46:24 | <ober> | Will the constraints field in cabal.project for a package apply to packages the depend on it? |
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| 21:47:10 | <sclv> | no. the project file doesn’t get bundled into a cabal package |
| 21:47:23 | <monochrom> | So basically ormolu hardcoded indent-by-2 or something, so someone forked it to do indent-by-4 and obviously the new name ought to be fourmolu. |
| 21:48:31 | <monochrom> | "like xmonad but for code formatting" |
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| 21:50:17 | <ober> | My usecase is to try to create inline tests and properties. So I will have a flag called tests, and I will enable in in the constraints file for my own project. This means I can run tests locally but packages that depend on it will not compile the tests. This should work right? |
| 21:51:34 | <ober> | Oh also the cabal flag chould set a cpp flag too |
| 21:52:25 | <sclv> | i advise you either use doctests or just a trest stanza and eg tasty |
| 21:52:32 | <sclv> | test stanza |
| 21:56:38 | <qrpnxz> | monochrom: omg hahaha |
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| 21:57:52 | <ober> | you mean tasty test stanza in a separate test package right? I really like writing properties in the module, and then you can use allProperties with tasty (I saw this in the agda source code) |
| 21:58:35 | <ober> | But I don't want to add QuickCheck as a dep in a library |
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| 22:11:34 | <dsal> | ober: Yeah, it sounds like you just want a normal test target. |
| 22:12:01 | <dsal> | Writing tests in your normal module is kind of strange, limiting, and will require more dependencies than you'd otherwise need. |
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| 22:32:55 | <sm> | ober: I do this, and I don't bother with flags. It's just a little test code, what's the big deal |
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| 22:35:35 | <sm> | ah for a library , yes I guess that's different |
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| 22:46:13 | <hpc> | ah, the age-old struggle |
| 22:46:33 | <hpc> | put tests in your modules, or compromise on your api to make it more testable when imported |
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| 23:22:14 | <jackdk> | ober: this is one of the reasons I use hedgehog for PBT - its generators are values instead of typeclass instances, so I don't have to fight the tension between "no orphan instances" and "test dependencies mixed with library code". |
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| 23:57:56 | <SamBellamy> | if I have certain edge cases where I don't want a specific argument to go below a specific value i.e. 0 or above a certain value how would I go about adding this? |
| 23:58:50 | <SamBellamy> | my function takes 3 arguments and I need to keep 2 of them within certain ranges |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-07-24.