Logs on 2022-07-25 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:56 | <Hecate> | SamBellamy: recursive function that pattern-matches on said argument to handle the fail cases where the threshold is reached |
| 00:01:01 | <Hecate> | let me write something |
| 00:01:50 | <jackdk> | Wouldn't guards make more sense here, since you're running a computation to decide whether or not it's an error? |
| 00:02:16 | <Hecate> | if the computation is more involved than "== 0" yeah guards are appropriate |
| 00:02:25 | <Hecate> | but guards are pattern matching in the end |
| 00:02:55 | → | yauhsien joins (~yauhsien@61-231-44-121.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 00:03:36 | <exarkun> | Or introduce a type that can't represent out-of-bounds values? |
| 00:04:10 | <SamBellamy> | paste link is not working :? |
| 00:04:36 | <Hecate> | SamBellamy: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1248300 |
| 00:04:50 | <Hecate> | SamBellamy: nah, tomsmeding seems to have an issue on his server |
| 00:05:15 | <Hecate> | erm, with better alignment: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1248301 |
| 00:05:53 | <Hecate> | exarkun: not always appropriate when you're incrementing or decrementing a counter! :) |
| 00:06:55 | <exarkun> | Sure. I don't have evidence that other cases don't exist, though. |
| 00:07:31 | <Hecate> | not sure I understand your sentence but ok 👍 |
| 00:07:36 | <qrpnxz> | crap, can one even just ready raw bytes from a file with base? |
| 00:07:45 | <SamBellamy> | https://paste.debian.net/1248302 |
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| 00:08:08 | <geekosaur> | yes but you need to switch to binary mode and then use iirc hGetSome |
| 00:08:11 | <monochrom> | hGet can read raw bytes. There are also nicer ways with the bytestring library |
| 00:08:38 | <monochrom> | and yeah use openBinary or set binary mode |
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| 00:09:22 | <geekosaur> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.2.3/docs/html/libraries/base-4.16.2.0/System-IO.html#g:21 |
| 00:09:34 | <SamBellamy> | Hecate: I'm going to try with guards like you showed |
| 00:10:10 | <qrpnxz> | i see thanks. Gotta open the file the right way, then can just use the bytestring functions alright |
| 00:10:12 | <geekosaur> | and yes, binary file reading is a good use case for ByteString instead of base |
| 00:11:16 | <qrpnxz> | which i can then plug into streaming library alright neat :) |
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| 00:20:37 | <SamBellamy> | I'm getting indentation error but in a different part of my programme where I made my own ADT :/ it's literally the start of the line |
| 00:20:56 | <SamBellamy> | parse error |
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| 00:24:57 | <geekosaur> | usually means the error is just above that |
| 00:26:16 | <monochrom> | Use bisection to comment out code to find out who's to blame. |
| 00:26:45 | <Bulby[m]> | lol |
| 00:26:53 | <Bulby[m]> | "now who did this" |
| 00:27:15 | <monochrom> | Prof. Plum in the kitchen using a pipe. |
| 00:27:48 | <monochrom> | Or perhaps SPJ in base using conduit? |
| 00:28:30 | <monochrom> | More seriously, it works great for LaTeX errors. |
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| 00:29:17 | <monochrom> | I just don't know whether it means bisection is great or LaTeX is fragile. :) |
| 00:29:24 | <SamBellamy> | :'( |
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| 00:33:55 | <jackdk> | monochrom: I don't need `git bisect` to know that the answer is always "me, six $UNITS ago" |
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| 00:38:16 | <SamBellamy> | geekosaur: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1248303 could you take a look? |
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| 00:40:31 | <geekosaur> | if the error is on the first line then the actual problem is somewhere above it. but I note that you didn't finish the second guard |
| 00:41:02 | <geekosaur> | actually that whole thing looks a bit weird |
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| 00:41:31 | <geekosaur> | `| Hyphens' (n+1)>=m m c = Hyphens' n m c` ?? |
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| 00:43:12 | <SamBellamy> | apologies |
| 00:43:59 | <geekosaur> | Hyphens' appears to be a constructor, and it needs more than one parameter. I'm not sure what `Hyphens' (n+1)>=m m c` is trying to say |
| 00:44:48 | <SamBellamy> | ((n+1)>=m) should be the first arguement then m and then c |
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| 00:45:27 | <geekosaur> | you can't use spacing that way to delimit a parameter; you must use parentheses |
| 00:46:38 | <geekosaur> | even with that change it seems wrong. are you simply trying to test `(n + 1) >= m`? if so, why the rest? You already extracted `n` and `m` |
| 00:46:39 | <SamBellamy> | geekosaur: ((n+1>=m) would return a Bool right? |
| 00:46:46 | <geekosaur> | you can just use them |
| 00:47:32 | <geekosaur> | right, that also is part of what makes no sense. you say you want that to be the first argument, but then it has the wrong type |
| 00:47:44 | <SamBellamy> | aaaaaaaaa |
| 00:47:50 | <SamBellamy> | apologies |
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| 00:49:37 | <SamBellamy> | geekosaur: I fixed it, thank you for pointing that out, I think I got it working, it's 2am perhaps I need to sleep so I can think clearly |
| 00:49:44 | <geekosaur> | the best I can figure for what you intended with that is https://bpa.st/453Q |
| 00:49:52 | <geekosaur> | oh, sorry |
| 00:50:11 | <SamBellamy> | my fault |
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| 00:50:48 | <SamBellamy> | I appreciate you talking through it, I had been staring at it for so long I couldn't even see the obvious stuff |
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| 01:00:33 | <hasbae> | the cardinality of a->b is |b|^|a|. so would the cardinality of c->a->b be |c|^(|b| ^ |a|)? |
| 01:01:13 | <hasbae> | apprently not, and it's instead |c|^(|b| * |a|) |
| 01:01:28 | <hasbae> | which I can't wrap my head around yet |
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| 01:04:26 | <monochrom> | Can you do c->d, then let d=a->b ? |
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| 01:08:20 | <hasbae> | |c->d| = |d|^|c| |
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| 01:09:33 | <hasbae> | |d|^|c| = (|b|^|a|)^|d| ? |
| 01:10:27 | <hasbae> | I created some data types with small cardinalities, like 2 or 3, and tried this with concrete types. |
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| 01:11:03 | <hasbae> | apparently if the arity of a function is more than 1, you can use the equality a->b->c = (a, b) -> c |
| 01:11:56 | <hasbae> | but it seems like the rules for calculating cardinality of a function should yield the same result whether you apply the rules to a->b->c or (a, b) -> c |
| 01:13:09 | <monochrom> | (|b|^|a|)^|c| |
| 01:13:30 | <monochrom> | aka |b|^(|a|*|c|) |
| 01:14:24 | <monochrom> | It may not be wise to work on c->a->b for a while and then suddenly change your mind it's a->b->c. |
| 01:14:54 | <hasbae> | good point |
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| 01:17:23 | <hasbae> | well it turns out i simply forget the rules of how to do arithmetic with nested exponents |
| 01:18:23 | <hasbae> | thanks for setting me straight |
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| 02:30:22 | <albet70> | lista= ["a","b","c"], listb=["awe","eb","wed","fc"...] is there a function that could show that listb's element which contain lista's element? |
| 02:31:12 | <albet70> | it's like lista is a subset of listb, but every element in lista is also a subset of listb's element |
| 02:35:13 | <albet70> | in other language it could be 'for i in slist: for e in rlist: if i in e: print(e) ' |
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| 02:40:51 | <Haskelytic> | is `lista :: [String]` or `[Char]` |
| 02:41:04 | <Haskelytic> | your imperative code suggests `[Char]` |
| 02:41:32 | <Haskelytic> | you can try fmap if you just want to compute membership in `lista` |
| 02:41:32 | <albet70> | lista :: [String] |
| 02:41:46 | <albet70> | yeah, fmap . fmap |
| 02:41:55 | <albet70> | is that ugly? |
| 02:42:27 | <monochrom> | I won't duplicate the "print(e)" part. But I can [ e | i <- lista, e <- listb, elem i e ] |
| 02:42:57 | <albet70> | aha, list comprehesion! |
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| 02:49:14 | <albet70> | fmap (\y -> fmap (\x -> flip isSubsequenceOf x) ["awe","wed","fc"]) ["a","b","c"] I don't know how to complete this... |
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| 02:58:40 | <Haskelytic> | the listcomp would probably be nicer |
| 02:58:48 | <Haskelytic> | `[letter | word <- listb, letters <- lista, letter <- letters, letter `elem` word]` |
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| 03:22:11 | <Haskelytic> | https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Understanding_monads/State#Monadic_Control_Structures |
| 03:22:27 | <Haskelytic> | "This very nicely illustrates how the finite-state machine is a transducer: it converts an ordered sequence of inputs to an ordered sequence of outputs, maintaining the state as it goes along." |
| 03:22:43 | <Haskelytic> | Never heard the term "transducer" used anywhere else |
| 03:23:08 | <Haskelytic> | w resp. to Haskell I mean |
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| 03:56:31 | <Clinton[m]> | Just curious, with GHC, if I'm using `OverloadedStrings`, will my literal strings be compiled into say, `Text` bytearrays, or will they be compiled as `Char` lists and then converted into `Text` at runtime? And furthermore, if these string literals are inside a function, will the conversion potentially happen everytime the function is called, or will this only happen once? |
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| 04:03:52 | <Axman6> | I think that's a difficult question to answer, because it likely depends on optimisations in the compiler. |
| 04:05:54 | <Axman6> | string literals in GHC are compiled to something like fromCString "My String"# (roughly - where "foo"# is a Ptr or something primitive, which contains a C string). if Text or bytestring had an optimisation for Text.pack (fromCString x) = Text.fromCString x then it might and up being mostly a no-op. I don't know any f this for sure though. |
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| 04:13:57 | <EvanR> | does processing a string literal at compile time make sense in general |
| 04:14:13 | <EvanR> | what if there's an encoding stafu |
| 04:14:15 | <EvanR> | snafu |
| 04:14:46 | <EvanR> | waiting for "it's ascii" xD |
| 04:23:47 | <Haskelytic> | speaking of ghc magic, any good resources for learning about GHC internals? |
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| 04:35:10 | <qrpnxz> | built a test echo program with streaming and bytestring. It copies 10GB from stdin to stdout in 1.760s. C program I wrote takes 0.973s. Not bad :) |
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| 04:42:28 | <duckie> | How are you doing it in C? |
| 04:48:02 | <qrpnxz> | duckie: nothing special, just created a buffer, try to read, write what i get. Rudimentary error detection (exits on error) |
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| 06:14:12 | <tomsmeding> | Hecate and others: sorry pastebin is online again, large wtf with systemd permissions that suddenly appeared after a system update |
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| 06:39:20 | <Hecate> | tomsmeding: absolutely no problem!! :) |
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| 07:02:39 | <bahamas> | I have a string and I want to remove a prefix from it. do I have to go through Text to do this? |
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| 07:14:09 | <c_wraith> | :t stripPrefix -- bahamas |
| 07:14:10 | <lambdabot> | Eq a => [a] -> [a] -> Maybe [a] |
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| 07:15:16 | <bahamas> | c_wraith: thanks! |
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| 07:20:58 | <Axman6> | A lot of the time, "I have a string" can be replaced with "I have a list" |
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| 07:31:04 | <dibblego> | @type prefixed -- works on Text |
| 07:31:05 | <lambdabot> | (Eq a, Choice p, Applicative f) => [a] -> p [a] (f [a]) -> p [a] (f [a]) |
| 07:33:45 | <c_wraith> | I've got a really silly pattern synonym for stripping a string prefix. That's not something pattern synonyms are supposed to be able to do. |
| 07:34:36 | <c_wraith> | but it turns out you can pass arguments to pattern synonyms as long as they're types |
| 07:34:58 | <tomsmeding> | I feel like I've seen such a pattern synonym before |
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| 07:35:10 | <tomsmeding> | Where the string to strip is a Symbol? |
| 07:35:20 | <c_wraith> | I mentioned it here when I first wrote it because it's so silly. |
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| 07:35:42 | <tomsmeding> | Ah it might have been you in the first place :) |
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| 07:36:17 | <c_wraith> | ghc has improved since then, you don't need a proxy to use TypeApplications in a pattern now |
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| 08:05:46 | <bahamas> | the Debug module is not available by default? |
| 08:06:38 | <bahamas> | oh, it's Debug.Trace. nvm |
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| 08:13:28 | <bahamas> | can anyone tell me how I can debug a scotty app? I don't see the output of Debug.Trace.trace in the console when running the server |
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| 08:15:34 | <[exa]> | bahamas: then the thing may not be evaluated at all. What's the specific problem? |
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| 08:17:44 | <bahamas> | [exa]: my app is reading a path from the command line and I want to check what the path is. or to make sure it is what I think it is |
| 08:18:08 | <bahamas> | [exa]: the actual problem is that I'm trying to serve static files but I get 404 file not found |
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| 08:23:50 | <bahamas> | maybe you know how I can show all the request paths that my app receives |
| 08:23:52 | <[exa]> | can you print the path out using an IO action in the Action monad handler? |
| 08:25:22 | <[exa]> | a more systematic possibility is to make a WAI middleware for printing out everything, I'd say that might be prepared somewhere |
| 08:28:25 | <[exa]> | ha, perhaps this: https://github.com/scotty-web/scotty-starter/blob/master/Main.hs#L21 |
| 08:28:51 | <[exa]> | in `wai-extra` package |
| 08:29:27 | <bahamas> | [exa]: thanks. I'll check it out |
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| 08:34:01 | <bahamas> | great! I can see the path of all requests |
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| 08:36:30 | <[exa]> | \o/ |
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| 08:50:34 | <bahamas> | hm. I still need to find a way to get the filesystem that wai-middleware-static uses to try to serve files. any ideas? |
| 08:50:43 | <bahamas> | *filesystem path |
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| 09:01:21 | <albet70> | in the list comprehesion, it just has if-then, no else? |
| 09:02:11 | <merijn> | albet70: eh, sound like you just want an if/else in the value side of things |
| 09:02:35 | <merijn> | > [ if even x then "Even!" else "Odd!" | x <-[0..5]] |
| 09:02:37 | <lambdabot> | ["Even!","Odd!","Even!","Odd!","Even!","Odd!"] |
| 09:03:46 | <merijn> | albet70: Don't see a reason that has to be part of list comprehension syntax |
| 09:04:32 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: enthousiastic code |
| 09:06:00 | <pavonia> | > take 6 $ cycle ["Even!", "Odd!"] |
| 09:06:02 | <lambdabot> | ["Even!","Odd!","Even!","Odd!","Even!","Odd!"] |
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| 09:16:59 | <albet70> | like this [ e | i <- lista, e <- listb, elem i e ], if elem i e then e, no else |
| 09:17:25 | <merijn> | albet70: What would the else even do? |
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| 09:18:03 | <albet70> | merijn: the syntax, if-then, it must have an else, right? |
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| 09:18:17 | <merijn> | albet70: There is no "if then" there? |
| 09:18:21 | <albet70> | the way not in list comprehesion |
| 09:18:32 | <merijn> | albet70: The list comprehension has a guard |
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| 09:18:41 | <merijn> | :t guard |
| 09:18:42 | <lambdabot> | Alternative f => Bool -> f () |
| 09:18:58 | <albet70> | merijn, so it has a bottom value? |
| 09:19:00 | <merijn> | > [n | n <- [1..5], even n] |
| 09:19:01 | <lambdabot> | [2,4] |
| 09:19:05 | <merijn> | albet70: What? |
| 09:19:31 | <merijn> | > do { n <- [1..5]; guard (even n); return n } |
| 09:19:33 | <lambdabot> | [2,4] |
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| 09:21:12 | <albet70> | merijn, I mean 'otherwise' in guard |
| 09:21:30 | <albet70> | is _ a bottom type? |
| 09:21:51 | <albet70> | that thing fit everything else? |
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| 09:22:31 | <pavonia> | There's no otherwise in guard |
| 09:27:06 | <Hecate> | there seems to be a mis-understanding |
| 09:27:09 | <Hecate> | guard is a function |
| 09:27:15 | <Hecate> | "guards" is a syntactic concept |
| 09:29:57 | <merijn> | there's a lot of confusion and misunderstanding here :p |
| 09:30:03 | <merijn> | Hecate: Just buy the damn pricy keyboard ;) |
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| 09:41:30 | <tomsmeding> | albet70: if the condition is false, the corresponding element is simply _omitted_ from the result list |
| 09:45:05 | <ridcully> | albet70: you can also put the if/then/else in a let inside the list comprehension, if you want to transform something conditionally |
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| 10:31:44 | <Guest3540> | Hey all - I was hoping someone could help me out, I'm new to Haskell and am having some difficulty. I've been looking into hosting a backend with Haskell, and have been using Servant and working through their guides. I am trying to implement OpenID authentication, but am having some trouble compiling my project. It seems the guide uses a very |
| 10:31:44 | <Guest3540> | outdated version of Web.OIDC.Client, so I have had to make some changes so that it works with the newer versions of the library (and GHC). Here is the faulty code, and the resulting error: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/IYeZV9ho Any help would be appreciated, many thanks. |
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| 11:06:55 | <sm> | Guest3540: one thing to try is look at the changelog for involved packages (aeson) for clues, like breaking change/migration notes |
| 11:07:58 | <sm> | also search the web / issue trackers for involved projects for that error message |
| 11:09:46 | <sm> | also for this kind of error, try adding type annotations to things on that line to see if one of them makes it go away |
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| 11:20:07 | <Guest3540> | Perfect - thank you for the pointers about the changelog, I'll look into that. I've tried adding type annotations on the line (and the function definition) but to no avail, it seemed nothing I did worked ahaha |
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| 11:22:42 | <[exa]> | Guest3540: what is the type of your `tokens` there? |
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| 11:39:55 | <Guest3540> | requestTokens returns type IO (Tokens a). Hovering over tokens I see it's type :: Tokens Any |
| 11:41:00 | <[exa]> | yeah it can't technically return `Tokens a` with an unknown type variable |
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| 11:46:41 | <[exa]> | maybe try enforcing the type of the tokens to (tokens :: Tokens () ) somewhere -- you might get a more guiding error |
| 11:47:06 | <[exa]> | (in the paste I'd put it to line 8: ... $ (tokens :: Tokens ()) |
| 11:47:14 | <[exa]> | ) |
| 11:50:22 | <[exa]> | my guess is that the error stems from the fact that `a` in `Tokens a` isn't resolved, so it doesn't know the way it should parse the whole tokens from JSON |
| 11:52:25 | <sm> | FYI: maerwald's GHC install override that recently landed in stack: |
| 11:52:25 | <sm> | https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/blob/6a7bd5d/doc/yaml_configuration.md#ghc-installation-customisation-experimental |
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| 11:54:36 | <sm> | I believe it means ghcup will be able install stack configured to use ghcup for managing GHCs |
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| 11:55:47 | <maerwald> | glorious times to be alive |
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| 11:57:31 | <sm> | great work maerwald. It only took a year, not bad considering there was no active maintainer |
| 11:57:34 | <[exa]> | b e a u t i f u l |
| 11:58:22 | <sm> | do you think, at some point, the script could be done away with, and built in to stack ? |
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| 11:58:58 | <sm> | (and the PR for those interested: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/pull/5585) |
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| 12:00:46 | <maerwald> | sm: why? the script is more powerful |
| 12:01:01 | <maerwald> | you could even use your package manager or nix to install GHC that way |
| 12:01:23 | <sm> | more power not always good ? It seems like a complex important bit of logic kept statefully on disk per project that will easily be screwed up |
| 12:01:36 | <chreekat> | sm: That's what I was effectively asking on the PR. I'm not convinced that anyone besides ghcup needs an install hook that can bypass the regular install mechanism. Powerful /= better unless it's actually needed |
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| 12:02:58 | <Guest3540> | [exa] Oh hey, that seemed to just outright solve the problem, that bit compiles successfully now (albeit I have problems elsewhere..) |
| 12:03:06 | <Guest3540> | Thanks! |
| 12:03:16 | <maerwald> | sm: yes, it's good... this is common unix design pattern |
| 12:03:21 | <maerwald> | git does that too |
| 12:03:22 | <Guest3540> | Very much appreciated :)) |
| 12:03:29 | <sm> | oh that's alright then :) |
| 12:03:38 | <[exa]> | Guest3540: the `a` there refers to some kind of tokenstream thing that I don't really understand, by putting () there you say it's always gonna be json `null` |
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| 12:03:55 | <[exa]> | Guest3540: so you might have a surprise later in the process but at least the type ambiguity is resolved |
| 12:06:34 | <Guest3540> | Yeah, I can gain a little more insight this way atleast and see what needs to be done. |
| 12:07:18 | <chreekat> | Not all ideas from unix are good 🤷♂️ |
| 12:07:24 | × | gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:07:25 | <sm> | maerwald, a trivial example: someone doesn't understand the importance of .hook/ in their project and cleans it up (just as you might with .stack-work, dist, etc.) - now they broke stack in this project ? If that's right, I think it shouldn't be that easy to break tools |
| 12:07:41 | <[exa]> | Guest3540: anyway the error was literally a simple ambiguity, unknown typeclass in a middle of a function. You may check out how a function like `let f = show . read in f "123"` fails |
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| 12:08:53 | <[exa]> | chreekat: [unix voice:] symlinking the hook script from a veritable central location in 3 2 1 |
| 12:09:19 | <maerwald> | sm: there's no .hooks in your project |
| 12:09:34 | <maerwald> | if you delete stack root, then everything is broken, yes... regardless of this patch |
| 12:09:38 | <sm> | oh, I didn't understand what "stack root" meant then |
| 12:09:43 | <sm> | is it ~/.stack ? |
| 12:09:45 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 12:10:43 | <sm> | I see, that's better |
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| 12:17:28 | <chreekat> | I don't even use stack anymore. 🙈 This has already been useful to some stack users, and I think that's what matters. So that's great |
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| 12:18:42 | <bahamas> | so, I'm using Debug.Trace.trace and the string that I pass as the first argument is displayed, but not the value I want to see. why would this be? |
| 12:19:36 | <merijn> | bahamas: Because it's not supposed to? |
| 12:19:50 | <merijn> | bahamas: trace == "id, but prints a string when evaluated" |
| 12:20:23 | <sm> | traceShowId should work, if it's a showable value |
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| 12:21:51 | <bahamas> | so what's the point of trace? |
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| 12:22:17 | <merijn> | bahamas: It prints a string |
| 12:22:34 | ← | jakalx parts (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client) |
| 12:22:35 | <sm> | control. You might just want to print a small string (.). You might not want or be able to print the value. |
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| 12:22:40 | <geekosaur> | it printds a string during evaluation, so it shows you when something is actually lazily evaluated |
| 12:22:58 | <sm> | look at the haddock and you'll see the other variants, all documented |
| 12:23:07 | <geekosaur> | ("forced", as we usually describe it) |
| 12:23:18 | <bahamas> | got it |
| 12:23:38 | merijn | . o O (I should give my expressions a safe word...) |
| 12:23:53 | <geekosaur> | also it can be used in pure code, without having to thread IO through it for debugging |
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| 12:29:54 | <chreekat> | I usually want traceShowId 99% of the time... It's probably what I would have given the name "trace" |
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| 12:30:57 | <merijn> | I usually want traceM/traceShowM or just trace, so YMMV :p |
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| 12:31:47 | <geekosaur> | except trace came first and all the others are derived from it |
| 12:31:58 | <geekosaur> | whne I started out with Haskell only trace was there |
| 12:32:11 | <geekosaur> | and traceM |
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| 12:36:15 | sm | uses fancier pretty debug-level-aware tracers .. but trace seems the simplest and right default.. not every value should be dumped to stderr |
| 12:38:34 | <sm> | or can be.. but ignore me. Back to maerwald who is on fire lately: https://hasufell.github.io/posts/2022-06-29-fixing-haskell-filepaths.html is also a good read |
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| 12:39:11 | <sm> | I'm a month late with my discourse reading. Sorry |
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| 12:39:51 | <dude_> | Hi everyone, i'm new here |
| 12:40:31 | <dude_> | trying to get ghc-mod to work, but it is complaining that it is compatible with base <4.10 |
| 12:40:38 | <maerwald> | sm: and cleaning up unix package ;) |
| 12:41:04 | <sm> | got a link ? |
| 12:41:04 | <merijn> | dude_: ghc-mod is dead and deprecated as of 4 or so years ago |
| 12:41:06 | <__monty__> | Hello new here, IIRC ghc-mod hasn't been a thing for multiple years now? : / |
| 12:41:14 | <maerwald> | sm: https://github.com/haskell/unix/commits/master |
| 12:41:17 | <merijn> | __monty__: Correct |
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| 12:41:49 | <maerwald> | sm: bytestring variant of putEnv was broken for a decade or so |
| 12:42:03 | <dude_> | merijn: yes that is what i read :), is there an alternative to get code suggestion in IntelliJ ? |
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| 12:42:08 | <maerwald> | and we're adding bytestring variants of fdRead/fdWrite |
| 12:42:10 | <__monty__> | I think the only sort of alternative would be HIE, Haskell IDE Engine? |
| 12:42:11 | <merijn> | dude_: You probably want HLS |
| 12:42:18 | <maerwald> | fdRead with String is half-broken anyway |
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| 12:42:49 | <sm> | awesome, thank you |
| 12:43:25 | <sm> | dude_: hls, which you can install with ghcup |
| 12:44:17 | <sm> | oh wait you said IntelliJ. Not sure it can talk to hls actually |
| 12:44:26 | <dude_> | merijn: thanks, any pointers how to get it working with IntelliJ ? |
| 12:44:53 | <dude_> | sm: yes, I haven't seen any plugins for it :( |
| 12:46:36 | <merijn> | No clue |
| 12:47:01 | <merijn> | dude_: But I suspect IntelliJ supports LSP? |
| 12:47:15 | <sm> | dude_: painful as it may sound, I think you just need to use vs code for now (or build hls integration yourself) |
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| 12:47:44 | <merijn> | HLS just speaks LSP, so the basics should Just Work (TM) |
| 12:48:43 | <sm> | oh certainly it probably totally just works %-] |
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| 12:49:07 | <dude_> | thanks, just reading now about LSP |
| 12:49:11 | <merijn> | Vim seems to pick stuff up without me having gotten around to fixing it yet :p |
| 12:49:58 | sm | switched from lovely intellij to vs code for this reason and is mostly happy with the move |
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| 12:50:35 | <dude_> | oh no, letting go IntelliJ is hard, i have been dreading it |
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| 12:50:53 | <sm> | run em both for a while |
| 12:52:36 | <kuribas> | dude_: there is a haskell plugin fo intellij |
| 12:52:50 | <sm> | it doesn't use hls though |
| 12:52:54 | <kuribas> | dude_: works only with stack. |
| 12:53:10 | <kuribas> | no, but hls was still problematic last time I tried. |
| 12:53:16 | <kuribas> | Which is a while now I admit... |
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| 12:53:27 | <sm> | and I could never get it to work even semi reliably.. hls has been somewhat better.. but YMMV |
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| 12:53:49 | <kuribas> | tomsmeding: re better names, I am open for suggestion :) |
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| 12:54:23 | <dude_> | kuribas: yes the IntelliJ plugin uses stack which I have also avoided, the other plugin HaskForce but relies on ghc-mod which is why i first asked about it |
| 12:54:40 | <sm> | bitrotted.. it can't have released recently |
| 12:54:44 | <kuribas> | tomsmeding: I am using the convention of the hkd package. |
| 12:55:33 | <kuribas> | dude_: but that plugin worked reasonably well |
| 12:56:07 | <dude_> | kuribas: and it did auto completion? |
| 12:59:47 | <kuribas> | dude_: yes |
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| 13:00:15 | <kuribas> | as far as I remember, I don't use it myself |
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| 13:06:01 | <dude_> | kuribas, sm and merijn: thanks for your help, i will try to get the intellij plugin working that relies on stack and if not then will install vs code |
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| 13:46:11 | <sm> | dude_: let us know how it turns out |
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| 14:49:10 | <dudem> | sm: so far VS code has been a smooth experience and good plugins, going fwd i will use VS Code for Haskell and IntelliJ for everything else |
| 14:52:00 | <sm> | dudem: 👍🏻 |
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| 16:18:15 | <qrpnxz> | omg! if you pick the functor of streaming's Stream to be reader, you get a consumer haha |
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| 17:25:10 | <gurkenglas> | Is there a good ML library for Haskell yet? |
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| 17:35:23 | <HaxCPU> | Machine learning? |
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| 17:36:06 | <[exa]> | (hopefully OcaML and pals) |
| 17:37:14 | <Franciman> | is OCaml banned from this channel? |
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| 17:39:27 | <geekosaur> | there are more appropriate channels, unless your question is about interfacing it to Haskell |
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| 18:15:35 | <stanrifkin> | is there a searchable reference for haskell as chm file? |
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| 19:24:40 | <[exa]> | stanrifkin: you mean the microsoft compressed helpfiles? |
| 19:25:18 | <stanrifkin> | [exa]: yes |
| 19:25:30 | <[exa]> | I'd say it's unlikely, but you should be able to generate e.g. library docs using some modification of haddock |
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| 19:28:47 | <[exa]> | is the format somehow documented/open? |
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| 19:33:20 | <stanrifkin> | [exa]: i think so. there are tools which makes a chm file from plain html. but i have no experience with it. |
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| 19:34:14 | <stanrifkin> | [exa]: is use this at the moment for offline help. https://zealdocs.org/ |
| 19:34:46 | <stanrifkin> | [exa]: i installed hoogle via cabal. but it wasn't what i hoped for. |
| 19:35:33 | <geekosaur> | calibre can produce chm from a number of formats apparently |
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| 19:38:40 | <stanrifkin> | geekosaur: i can't find that option in calibre |
| 19:39:41 | <geekosaur> | wonder if it got removed, I was looking at an older message. I haven't actually used it in some years |
| 19:40:25 | <stanrifkin> | what do you use for offline help? |
| 19:42:51 | <[exa]> | good question, I never really thought much about it. I have a local hoogle, and I usually read at least the "toplevel" docs before using a package, to avoid getting trapped by bad help searches. |
| 19:43:14 | <[exa]> | many other people have vscode integration here which I kinda assume includes a help system |
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| 19:44:34 | <[exa]> | still that doesn't really solve fulltext searches or discovering packages. |
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| 19:45:04 | <geekosaur> | looks like chm is input only these days |
| 19:45:25 | <[exa]> | doxygen can generate it |
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| 19:45:41 | <[exa]> | (w h e w) |
| 19:46:06 | <stanrifkin> | https://github.com/crea7or/cppreference2mshelp/blob/master/cppreference.chm |
| 19:46:13 | <stanrifkin> | here to give you an example |
| 19:46:33 | <stanrifkin> | it's cppreference.com for c++ as chm file |
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| 19:47:53 | [exa] | sees .exe pushed in git, eyes hurt |
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| 20:58:47 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: seems those .exe's are upstream from microsoft (and other places), not built in-repo |
| 20:59:42 | <tomsmeding> | And considering that windows doesn't have the luxury of pacman/apt/yum/etc... |
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| 21:19:02 | <pavonia> | Is there anything obviously wrong with the inner loop of this function? https://bpa.st/K2RA It seems to allocate a lot of memory quickly, even for small inputs, while it should run in constant space, IMHO |
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| 21:28:45 | <glguy> | pavonia: is 'a' getting instantiated as 'Integer'? |
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| 21:29:32 | <pavonia> | I think so, that's the default, no? |
| 21:30:04 | <glguy> | If you're making big integers that'll take big ram. Are you testing in compiled code or GHCi? |
| 21:30:15 | <pavonia> | In GHCi |
| 21:30:45 | <glguy> | all bets are off for performance in GHCi |
| 21:31:16 | <pavonia> | But the numbers are really small, like 8131, and it grabs 200 MB extra or so |
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| 21:34:17 | <pavonia> | Are the let variables released in the recursive call? Because they are not needed anymore |
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| 21:46:18 | <geekosaur> | let variables aren't necessarily even created |
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| 21:47:04 | <int-e> | FWIW I'd expect that part of the code to be fine even in ghci. |
| 21:47:40 | <int-e> | There's the helpers though (isqrt, possiblyRoot) which we know nothing about |
| 21:47:42 | <geekosaur> | ghci doesn't even optimize away intermediates by default (and can't, before 9.0) |
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| 21:49:53 | <int-e> | Well, as I see it, you don't need any optimization here to keep memory usage down; once go (a+1) is reached the rest can be collected. |
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| 22:13:05 | <pavonia> | Bah, I'm stupid. The isqrt function received a negative value and ran into an infinite loop. I didn't even notice that :S |
| 22:13:59 | <hpc> | that's the power of positive thinking! |
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| 22:14:47 | <hpc> | also in the future, Debug.Trace |
| 22:15:36 | <hpc> | it's the best module i always forget about |
| 22:17:16 | <hpc> | that and System.IO when i forget what's in Prelude, but we don't talk about that :P |
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| 22:18:25 | <monochrom> | I use the power of tautological thinking. |
| 22:18:47 | <monochrom> | Every inexplicable problem is caused by something you don't think is the cause. |
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| 22:19:54 | <hpc> | i use that tautology all the time |
| 22:20:12 | <hpc> | although i rephrases it as "every impossible problem has an impossible cause", because that's often what it feels like having to use it |
| 22:20:44 | <monochrom> | Hey that reminds me. |
| 22:20:45 | <hpc> | and sort of makes you think of more causes than just "something you don't think is the cause" |
| 22:21:02 | <monochrom> | Every idealized problem has an idealized solution, too :) |
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| 22:21:53 | <hpc> | heh |
| 22:22:01 | <hpc> | i also like deming's quote, "don't just do something, stand there!" |
| 22:22:58 | <monochrom> | My example comes from electronics engineering. There are op amps; the idealized one says infinite amplification. It has a simple idealized model that works: The two input pins, therefore, have 0 current between them and 0 voltage between them too. |
| 22:24:15 | <monochrom> | That simple model has the name "virtual open (because 0 current) and virtual ground/closed (because 0 voltage)". You can see how that name confuses everyone because it's sounds like a paradox. |
| 22:24:59 | <hpc> | they're just both ground |
| 22:25:09 | <hpc> | ground has 0 voltage relative to itself, and 0 current from itself to itself |
| 22:25:22 | <monochrom> | This is where one may find that I had always been a formalist and "shut up and calculate" guy. Because I was not confused. It's just formulas that work. |
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| 22:26:10 | <hpc> | open/closed aren't "real" observations, they're abstractions within the bounds of what usually happens in circuit design |
| 22:26:23 | <hpc> | i like explaining this to people who take the OSI model to heart too |
| 22:26:36 | <hpc> | nothing stops you from wrapping a tls stream inside another tls stream |
| 22:27:05 | <hpc> | and other such layering violations |
| 22:28:24 | <hpc> | (i also like to tell people packet switching is NAT, that one usually takes them a minute) |
| 22:28:39 | <monochrom> | heh |
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| 22:30:50 | <hpc> | this is all part of my long con to make functional programming look horrifyingly normal |
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| 23:38:16 | <Pickchea> | Hello! What would be a good way to define a 3D-vector in Haskell? «newtype Vector a = Vector (a, a, a)» or «data Vector a = Vector a a a»? I'm currently using the first version but I'm not sure if it's efficient. |
| 23:39:42 | <Pickchea> | Would raw three-tuples be most efficient for many vector-arithmetical operations? |
| 23:40:38 | <hpc> | the first just adds extra data constructor wrapping |
| 23:41:10 | <hpc> | or well, i guess with the newtype it doesn't |
| 23:41:28 | <hpc> | but i would still probably go with the second |
| 23:43:15 | <dibblego> | I'd define the operations over it, write everything in terms of those operations, then stop caring about the representation |
| 23:43:25 | <geekosaur> | perhaps you will be interested in V3 from vector |
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| 23:44:28 | <hpc> | actually, here's another perspective - if you really want maximum speed you should think about operations on a collection of vectors |
| 23:45:27 | <hpc> | then you're dealing with nice big buffers where the cpu has everything it needs to go fast right in one place |
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| 23:48:32 | <Pickchea> | OK, thanks! I'm just writing a toy implementation of the Barnes-Hut algorithm using gloss and it sometimes goes really choppy and the profiles tells me it's mostly fmap and vector arithmetic. |
| 23:48:57 | <Pickchea> | But I guess that's because it happens so much compared to everything else. |
| 23:49:17 | <Pickchea> | *the profiler |
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| 23:57:23 | <jackdk> | Pickchea: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/linear-1.21.10/docs/Linear-V3.html |
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| 23:59:53 | <Pickchea> | jackdk, will have a look, thanks! |
All times are in UTC on 2022-07-25.