Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-08-21 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:02:41 <einfair> also ghci says "Couldn't match type ‘[Char]’ with ‘Data.Text.Internal.Text’
00:02:42 <einfair> Expected: Data.Text.Internal.Text
00:02:42 <einfair> Actual: String"
00:03:43 <pavonia> The latter is caused because your are trying to match two different string types
00:04:02 <jackdk> Easiest way to deal with the former is to work with haskell tooling instead of OS package manager tooling - start a cabal package so you can list the packages you want in `build-depends`
00:05:03 <jackdk> einfair: If you've written a string literal `"like this"` and have that error, you will want to put `{-# LANGUAGE OverloadedStrings #-}` at the top of your file, or `:set -XOverloadedStrings` into GHCi.
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00:06:15 <pavonia> When you have a top-level variable yielding of type Integral a => [a], will the result of evaluating some prefix of this list be stored in memory and be used for further accesses of that list?
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00:06:23 <einfair> jackdk: yes, that directive works. Now I am able to start graphics "hello world" example.
00:06:47 <geekosaur> pavonia, no
00:07:08 <geekosaur> it's actually taking a function (the Integral dictionary for the type)
00:07:16 <geekosaur> er, taking a parameter
00:07:30 <pavonia> So is that because of the type only?
00:07:59 <geekosaur> yes. if you make it a concrete type it'll work as you want
00:08:09 <pavonia> Ah, thanks
00:08:15 <geekosaur> but right now it takes a dictionary parameter, so it's really a function and won't be memoized
00:08:42 <jackdk> "language extension" sounds scary, but many of them are quite conservative and add single features http://web.archive.org/web/20220513191346/dev.stephendiehl.com/hask/#language-extensions
00:11:08 <geekosaur> a lot of things are extensions because they're technically not part of the standard and nobody wants to take the time to write them up properly for standardization because having them available in ghc is good enough for them
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00:13:24 <hpc> gcc does similar things, and in a much less principled way
00:13:48 <hpc> it just calls them "options" and you have to specify them on the command line
00:14:18 <geekosaur> there's also the __attribute__ stuff and other things they usually hide in #includes
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00:15:23 <hpc> also, language extensions are designed to eventually be integrated into the standard, the extension mechanism is standardized, and some of the language is already extensions
00:16:11 <hpc> so rather than turning on extensions to switch away from the standard, you can turn off "extensions" that correspond to standard language features
00:20:10 <jackdk> Also if you're on GHC >=9 you can set `Default-Language: GHC2021` in your cabal file and get most of the uncontroversial good stuff
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04:24:58 <qrpnxz> if something is both Comonad and Monad, is it guaranteed to be Identity? My experience points to yes, but idk for sure.
04:25:40 <qrpnxz> nvm just thought of counter example: NonEmpty
04:26:02 <c_wraith> No, not at all
04:26:09 <c_wraith> there are a lot of counter-examples
04:27:38 <qrpnxz> indeed
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08:42:18 <albet70> why English always use a, an or the before the name
08:43:51 <albet70> how to describe a delayed computation?
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09:00:57 <radhika> Hi
09:01:02 <radhika> I have an array
09:01:09 <radhika> Sorry a list
09:01:15 <radhika> And a number
09:01:25 <radhika> The list consists of a name
09:01:32 <radhika> Name is 11 letters
09:01:54 <radhika> The number could be anything
09:02:23 <radhika> It should count the list and if the number is greater than the list then count from start again
09:03:26 <radhika> Keep doing it till the end of number
09:03:54 <radhika> And return the letter where the count ends
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09:26:59 <jackdk> homework?
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11:29:04 <albet70> return_cont = \a -> \ar -> ar a
11:29:22 <albet70> bindC = \g f k -> g (\x -> f x k)
11:29:35 <albet70> k3 = return_cont 3
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11:30:02 <albet70> k5 = bindC k3 (\a -> return_cont (a+1))
11:30:10 <albet70> k5 id == 4
11:30:54 <albet70> this f in bindC is a binary function, and in k5 = bindC k3 (\a -> ...) \a is an unary, why it does work?
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13:35:03 <sm> hey all, do you know a trick for identifying functions stored in a data value, eg for comparing or debug logging ?
13:35:50 <sm> ack.. biab
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14:03:30 <tomsmeding> albet70: `\a b -> ...` is the same as `\a -> \b -> ...` is the same as `\a -> (\b -> ...)`
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14:11:44 <tomsmeding> sm: comparison can I guess be done using reallyUnsafePtrEquality#, but debug logging is going to be hard -- inspecting the heap might (with hacks) give you some pointer to the entry of its native code block, yielding some kind of "identity", but not necessarily a useful one if you want to distinguish functions with different closures
14:12:06 <tomsmeding> i.e. you'd need a ghc plugin to attach more info to closures, or otherwise you should manually add info to your closures :)
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14:40:07 <albet70> what's the eval order ma >>= \a -> mb >>= \b -> mc?
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14:40:50 <albet70> == ma >>= \a -> (mb >>= \b -> mc)?
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14:41:12 <albet70> or (ma >>= \a -> mb) >>= (\b -> mc)?
14:41:50 <albet70> which way is the do-notation using?
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14:45:34 <hpc> if you're asking about parsing, it's the first one
14:45:40 <[exa]> albet70: `do` notation doesn't specify any evaluation order; everything depends on which arguments the >>= forces or not
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14:45:58 <hpc> but they're both the same, and you can't conclude anything about evaluation order from either expression
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14:47:01 <hpc> also fun fact, the fact that those two expressions are the same is the "monoid" part of the "monoid in the category of endofunctors" joke
14:47:12 <hpc> (or at least, the semigroup part of it :D)
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14:47:15 <[exa]> albet70: btw for the 2nd parenthesization the `a` variable wouldn't be available for any other commands than for `mb`
14:48:57 <albet70> I'm confused, ma >>= \a -> (mb >>= \b -> mc) is equal to (ma >>= \a -> mb) >>= (\b -> mc)?
14:49:24 <hpc> albet70: ignore that, [exa] is right :(
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14:51:27 <hpc> i was misreading, the actual equality is m >>= (\x -> k x >>= h) = (m >>= k) >>= h
14:52:19 <f-a> I am writing a `Tree a -> b -> (b -> a -> b) -> Tree b` function. So to speak, “folding” along branches. I suspect I am not writing anything new. Is there a typeclass for this?
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14:53:28 <hpc> f-a: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.17.0.0/docs/Prelude.html#t:Foldable perhaps
14:54:26 <hpc> or Traversable
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14:54:53 <f-a> hpc, I don’t think it is foldable since I am not reducing to `b` but `Tree b`, am I wrong?
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15:03:35 <[exa]> f-a: so the output tree is a single leaf?
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15:04:06 <[exa]> (also looks a bit like mapAccum through a tree, at which point you might be almost hitting Traversable)
15:04:22 <f-a> no, maybe I should write an implementation so it is clearer
15:05:57 <hololeap> What's a good overview of Haskell for someone who has done casual programming, just because they are curious, but aren't interested in learning it?
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15:06:16 <hpc> LYAH perhaps?
15:06:30 <hpc> it's approachable, with no exercises
15:06:35 <hpc> and not terribly long
15:06:38 <f-a> lyah is a bit long if you are not interested in learning it, I suspect
15:06:55 <hololeap> I'm thinking some kind of video that goes over the language's features.
15:07:04 <hpc> a lot of LYAH is "here's what integers are, here's how to append strings" and such
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15:07:22 <hololeap> I have a family member that is curious why I have an interest in Haskell.
15:09:05 <[exa]> f-a: anyway your function type can be made out of `traverse` by using `f ~ (->) b` for the `Applicative f`. So unless you're doing some context-specific magic, I guess you should have a traversable.
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15:15:45 <ByronJohnson> albet70: I think you mean ‘ma >>= \a -> mb a >>= \b -> mc b’; that is, ‘mb a’, not ‘mb’, and ‘mc b’, not ‘mc’.
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15:18:15 <ByronJohnson> f-a: In addition to Foldable and Traversable, I'd also look at catamorphisms and F-algebras.
15:18:23 <f-a> hpc: [exa]: ByronJohnson: I wrote an implementation (`annotate`) so I am clear in what I am talking about https://pastebin.com/97PVXTQe
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15:20:45 <f-a> hololeap: difficult to answer, there are videos but I always found them lacking. Even talks are so so imho
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15:28:20 <[exa]> f-a: not sure if the default Traversable instance for a tree runs from the top to the bottom, you might need some ugly laziness trick to get it working (like, subtracting from a final value which is lazy)
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15:28:55 <[exa]> Foldable is certainly insufficient (because it can't reproduce the structure)
15:30:27 <[exa]> f-a: anyway, you can use State to hold the cummulative sum and just let it traverse through the whole structure
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15:31:36 <albet70> ByronJohnson , why
15:31:49 <f-a> thanks, in the hand my goal was not to handroll something naive
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15:33:37 <albet70> b/c \a -> mb a :: a -> mb?
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15:43:46 <sm> thanks tomsmeding
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15:47:35 <Franciman> see you in a few times, enjoy functional programming and good company
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15:50:51 <[exa]> f-a: I later realized there are various applicative adaptors that might force the Traverse do what you want, i.e. Backwards or Reverse might do the trick
15:51:37 <[exa]> (it's Data.Functor.Reverse and Control.Applicative.Backwards, both in `transformers`)
15:51:49 <f-a> thanks
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15:52:25 <[exa]> (s/Traverse/traverse/ as an absolute self-nitpick)
15:52:58 <f-a> really interesting, I am not sure I will be using it soon but for sure something useful to know
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15:57:51 <[exa]> well certainly helps you to avoid writing the reversed instance yourself. :D
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16:21:24 <jese> one of my package's dependencies requires very old version of GHC and fails to build with --allow-newer. but if i build it by myself somewhere outside of the package's directory using that old version of GHC then my package finds it and builds just fine. so is there a way to prevent stack and cabal (i use both) from attempting to build that dependency themselves and instead rely on the user to do it?
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16:22:42 <c_wraith> if it fails to build with --allow-newer, that suggests it's using a set of dependencies that are incompatible with your program
16:23:24 <c_wraith> You can point to local source for a package, but it won't help in any situation where you're building the same thing without modification
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16:33:16 <jese> c_wraith: thanks
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16:35:52 <troydm> I'm trying to structure my application using a StateT monad but I'm having a little trouble, basicly I need to have monad which derives IO has a state and mostly has return value of Either Exception a where a is my computation value, but I want to short-circuit my monad binding if there is Exception
16:36:32 <troydm> i've tried defining it as type MyMonad a = StateT State IO (Either Exception a)
16:37:13 <troydm> but I'm having trouble structuring my monad calls as I need to manually use custom functions for shortcircuating computation
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16:38:00 <troydm> my question is what can I do in this situation, as it seems like defining my own custom monad transformer is the only way to have behaviour that I want
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16:39:45 <c_wraith> I think you want to include ExceptT in your stack
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16:41:03 <troydm> so, I need something like ExceptT but which also has a state
16:41:09 <monochrom> IO already does exceptions.
16:41:10 <troydm> how do I define something like this?
16:41:24 <troydm> monochrom: no, not that kind of exceptions, my custom ones
16:41:40 <c_wraith> StateT State (ExceptT Exception IO) a
16:41:41 <troydm> monochrom: it's basicly custom type
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16:42:22 <troydm> c_wraith: ohh, okey, I feel like I'll have some monad transformer cake
16:42:25 <monochrom> IO lets me use my custom exception type. I did it once.
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16:43:03 <troydm> monochrom: I don't like doing it that way, I'm actually trying to write my own Scheme R7RS interpreter
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16:43:33 <troydm> so I have a custom type for Scheme evaluation which did end with exception
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16:44:56 <monochrom> I wrote my own unit testing library. So I had a custom exception type.
16:45:50 <troydm> monochrom: yeah I understand
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17:00:36 <janus> how does file-embed-lzma use the Instances.TH.Lift instances? i remove the import and it still compiles
17:01:17 <janus> code here https://github.com/phadej/file-embed-lzma/blob/master/src/FileEmbedLzma.hs
17:03:26 <janus> i also tried compiling it on Debian 9 with GHC 8.0 and Cabal 1.24, and it also works there. so don't seem dependent on GHC version
17:03:59 <troydm> c_wraith: I'm having trouble throwing said exception, maybe I'm too dumb idk, I'm trying to define a function for that that basicly takes :: Exception -> StateT State (ExceptT Exception IO) a
17:04:59 <troydm> c_wraith: but throwE function is not enough to convert my exception into StateT monad, I need to somehow convert ExceptT into StateT
17:05:26 <troydm> c_wraith: maybe I'm too dumb to figure this out
17:05:53 <c_wraith> are you import ExceptT from Control.Monad.Except or Control.Monad.Trans.Except?
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17:06:10 <c_wraith> it's the same type, but very different interfaces
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17:07:00 <troydm> c_wraith: Control.Monad.Trans.Except
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17:08:10 <c_wraith> Do you have a particular reason to use transformers directly instead of via mtl?
17:08:52 <troydm> c_wraith: I'm not using mtl
17:08:58 <janus> oh, it says on https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-lift-0.8.2 that 'functionality in this package has largely been subsumed by the DeriveLift language extension, which is available in GHC 8.0'
17:09:27 <c_wraith> troydm: well, then, you're going to need to carefully insert uses of lift
17:09:33 <monochrom> StateT ExceptT means you will be saying "lift (throw e)"
17:09:39 <c_wraith> ... which is amusingly *not* the template haskell lift
17:09:56 <monochrom> Yeah there are too many lifts.
17:10:11 <monochrom> Methinks some of them should be renamed "elevators" :)
17:10:47 <c_wraith> there's an mtl-replacement package named something like that already!
17:10:49 <troydm> c_wraith: I'm not using mtl
17:10:54 <troydm> ohh, sorry
17:11:00 <troydm> double pasted
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17:12:22 <c_wraith> anyway. like monochrom says, "lift (throw e)". since you're not using mtl, lift and (lift . lift) are going to be stuff you see a lot.
17:12:24 <troydm> c_wraith: thanks, lift worked like a charm
17:12:46 <troydm> c_wraith: I'm okey with that
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17:13:14 <c_wraith> honestly, I don't mind using explicit lift. It means that you don't have the issues mtl does with things like multiples of instances of a particular class in the same stack.
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17:23:40 <troydm> c_wraith: I'm not using mtl because I never used it, I need to learn it...
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17:27:39 <Lucio_> Hi everyone
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17:29:43 <Lucio_> i want to be a better programmer, i come from php background, but i feel my code sucks because i have a poor programming design. Should i use Haskell for that_
17:29:45 <Lucio_> ?
17:30:56 <monochrom> I teach Haskell to my students, and they hand in poor designs in Haskell too.
17:31:00 <c_wraith> learning Haskell might help, but it won't be a quick fix.
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17:31:46 <monochrom> There is some kind of XY-problem mentality in human nature that transcends language.
17:32:01 <kavvadias> hello everyone, im trying to build cardano-node and  i cant get libsystemd-journal dependency to resolve, i get this error  https://pastebin.com/y9P0ADXr , I'm on pop-os 22.04 (ubuntu)
17:32:16 <monochrom> Music and XY problems are the universal languages of humanity!
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17:36:05 <sm> Lucio_: sure!
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17:38:40 <hololeap> I'm not really grokking this: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-control-1.0.2.3/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-Control.html#v:control
17:38:52 <c_wraith> yeah, no one does
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17:39:29 <hololeap> what is the point of (restoreM saved >>= release) as opposed to just (release saved)
17:41:31 <Lucio_> @monochrom .
17:41:31 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
17:41:50 <monochrom> Probably one of those times when the real documentation is someone's forgotten blog.
17:42:38 <Lucio_> #monochrom .
17:42:50 <hololeap> See the following tutorial by Michael Snoyman on how to use this package
17:42:55 <hololeap> go figure
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17:44:10 <Lucio_> Monochrom what is your recommendation to get better at writing code? Some speicific book , or ...
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17:44:46 <Lucio_> I feel like programming, with framework in php is not giving me the right understanding of design
17:44:48 <monochrom> Be logical, not intuitive. Learn Occam's Razor. Pay attention to actual outcomes, ignore intentions.
17:45:52 <darkling> And just practice, practice, practice.
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17:52:11 <NewbiePlumber> Hey all, tell me something interesting you've done with Haskell. I'm going through some projects I've written in other languages, trying to convert them to Haskell. I'm very pleased so far with the file I/o and networking. I'm not sure how many of the other projects would make sense to rewrite (which is not a statement, it is an open musing).
17:52:11 <NewbiePlumber> Anyone done stuff with graphics, parallel compute (GPGPU-type stuff), or distributed systems (akin to networked MPI)?
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17:52:49 <NewbiePlumber> (also, is there any way to see the chat history before I log in?)
17:53:53 <geekosaur> there is a log; check the topic. you may also be interested in matrix, which has an IRC bridge
17:55:55 <sm> and a public log I think
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17:57:02 <sm> oops
17:58:30 <sm> Lucio_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Design_Programs is some good food for thought on design
17:59:33 <sm> also read the code of projects you'd like to be able to make
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18:03:39 <NewbiePlumber> I'm all for books, but I've got two that I need to finish already (Stepanov's Elements and Notes). I'm looking for more of a field survey of what things are easily possible in Haskell. For example, if I were to write some GPGPU programs, would they compile are run anywhere that the equivalent clang/libclc would? If I were to write some windowing
18:03:40 <NewbiePlumber> graphics, would they be as portable as GLFW or SDL?
18:04:15 <Rembane_> Haskell excels at writing interpreters and compilers and also highly concurrent applications.
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18:05:23 <NewbiePlumber> Does the RTS run in parallel on the GPU, or strictly the CPU?
18:05:49 <Rembane_> I don't think it runs on the GPU at all.
18:06:28 <Rembane_> But there's probably a package somewhere to run Haskell code on the GPU, or some EDSL written in Haskell
18:06:30 <geekosaur> haskell doesn't run on the gpu but there are libraries that can help you program for gpus (e.g. Accelerate)
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18:59:27 <sm> NewbiePlumber: for survey, how about https://haskell-links.org and especially the "State of.." and "What I Wish.." links there
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19:40:35 <qrpnxz> haskell has let's see ByteArray#, MutableByteArray#, Ptr, ForeignPtr, each in Pinned and Unpinned variant. For nicer interface above we have Data.Array.Byte, Data.Primitive.ByteArray, Data.Vector.Primitive, Data.Vector.Storable, Data.ByteString, Data.ByteString.Short. I'm going a little bit crazy here.
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20:26:13 <NewbiePlumber> tabs or spaces, is that a monad?
20:26:24 <Rembane_> Why not all three?
20:26:51 <NewbiePlumber> do it concurrently
20:27:34 <monochrom> If you use tabs, you will have tab leaks.
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20:28:47 <NewbiePlumber> does haskell have a formatting tool?
20:29:28 <geekosaur> several
20:29:52 <geekosaur> brittany, ormolu/fourmolu, structured-haskell-mode in emacs…
20:30:07 <tomsmeding> stylish-haskell, hindent
20:30:32 <geekosaur> right, I keep fprgetting those two
20:31:03 <tomsmeding> hindent is kinda weird with its choices sometimes, though, but it's great as a quick auto-indenter for large Show output :p
20:31:30 <tomsmeding> I have :hindentshow <expr> in my .ghci which passes the result of expr through 'show' and hindent
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20:33:07 <NewbiePlumber> How do I pass -O3 by default to my project on both stack and cabal?
20:33:18 <NewbiePlumber> I've tried editing the ~/.cabal/config file, but no luck
20:33:39 <dsal> monochrom: I use tabs in chrome. Can confirm.
20:33:43 <geekosaur> stack and cabal use different config files. also -O3 does nothing
20:33:58 <NewbiePlumber> Oh, it's just O1/O2?
20:34:02 <geekosaur> ghc does not compile via C, and there is no haskell -O3
20:34:23 <geekosaur> and -O2 should be used only after benchmarking with and without
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20:34:44 <geekosaur> since it increases compile time significantly while not generally producing much better code (and sometimes worse)
20:35:13 <NewbiePlumber> Interesting, hmm
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20:36:57 <NewbiePlumber> But, to do it, would it be in cabal.project, stack.yaml, <project>.cabal, somewhere else, or all of those?
20:37:17 <tomsmeding> <project>.cabal
20:37:23 <tomsmeding> ghc-options: -O2 -Wall
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20:37:47 <tomsmeding> (I'm putting -Wall there too which is unrelated -- it enables warnings -- but you would also put that there, and *please enable warnings*)
20:38:07 <geekosaur> although I think cabal.project.local is preferred unless you have good reason to stick it in the cabal file (assuming this will eventually go to hackage)
20:38:25 <tomsmeding> I guess if you have a good reason to use -O2, you have a good reason to use -O2 :p
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20:40:10 <NewbiePlumber> So, using O2 is generally not recommended because it doesn't always produce significantly better performance and hinders debugging?
20:41:37 <geekosaur> nothing to do with debugging (that's difficult regardless 🙂
20:41:48 <geekosaur> but it takes *much* longer to compile with -O2
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20:41:58 <geekosaur> and you rarely get much out of it
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20:45:40 <NewbiePlumber> I'm not seeing much info about linking everything statically, including the compiler runtime, linking with fPIC, and using LTO
20:45:46 <NewbiePlumber> are those things possible?
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20:45:53 <qrpnxz> omg, i think haskell doesn't have a read-only pointer type. Talk about ironic lol
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20:47:14 <geekosaur> haskell libraries including the RTS are linked statically unless you use -dynamic.
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20:47:58 <geekosaur> C libraries default to dynamic unless you use -Wl,-static, but then you have to worry about static libc (glibc *really really* does not like this)
20:48:40 <geekosaur> PIC is used automatically when dynamic or the platform supports PIE.
20:49:09 <NewbiePlumber> Thank you
20:49:16 <geekosaur> LTO mostly doesn't apply because nobody's linker knows how to properly LTO Haskell objects
20:49:31 <int-e> qrpnxz: In first approximation, Haskell doesn't have pointer types... pointers are mostly for FFI, where they are implementation details in low-level unsafe code. What would you gain with a read-only pointer?
20:49:39 <geekosaur> mostly LTO is designed for C++
20:49:51 <tomsmeding> also C, right?
20:50:06 <tomsmeding> (though in a pinch C is mostly a subset of C++ :p)
20:50:09 <geekosaur> C is kinda a lesser C++ from the linker's POV
20:50:12 <tomsmeding> yeah
20:50:20 <NewbiePlumber> FWIW, our experience in C++ has put us firmly on the side of "build our own compilers and link statically against them"
20:50:22 <tomsmeding> right, especially for the linker
20:50:37 <tomsmeding> NewbiePlumber: link statically against a _compiler_?
20:50:52 <NewbiePlumber> a compiler runtime, yes
20:51:00 <qrpnxz> int-e: i'm working on a low-level bytes reader/writer api. I wanted to return a reference to a buffer, then realized oops this pointer can be written to! Very bad. So now i'm looking for what's the best most interoperable zero-cost alternative.
20:51:00 <tomsmeding> ah, the runtime, that makes more sense :p
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20:51:09 <monochrom> The Gamma Relation: ghc -On ~ gcc -O(n+1)
20:51:20 <qrpnxz> i could just accept an unsafe api, but i want to be safe as possible
20:51:35 <tomsmeding> NewbiePlumber: well, as geekosaur said, ghc automatically statically links the ghc runtime system ("RTS")
20:51:46 <NewbiePlumber> Yes, TY all :)
20:51:55 <int-e> qrpnxz: wrap it in a newtype, don't export the constructure, and provide your own access operations
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20:52:28 <int-e> *constructor... I think I'm half sleep-typing.
20:52:29 <monochrom> Isn't it also the case that gcc static-links crts.o ?
20:52:44 <qrpnxz> int-e: that's so much work, but yes that's pretty much the least compromise way to do it i suppose.
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20:53:16 <tomsmeding> monochrom: it doesn't statically link libc.so :p
20:53:49 <monochrom> Not to say that crts.o does anything substantial. Basically an at_exit registrar.
20:54:11 <tomsmeding> isn't that kind of the point of C, that the RTS doesn't amount to anything substantial?
20:54:12 <int-e> :t Data.ByteString.Internal.fromForeignPtr
20:54:13 <lambdabot> GHC.ForeignPtr.ForeignPtr Word8 -> Int -> Int -> BSC.ByteString
20:54:18 <geekosaur[m]> I should also mention that 99% of LTO is dead code elimination, which ghc was doing itself before LTO came along
20:54:24 <int-e> qrpnxz: Maybe that's good enough for you?
20:55:49 <monochrom> I dare say, the point of all sequential-only languages...
20:56:07 <hololeap> anyone have any ideas why this would happen? https://github.com/gentoo-haskell/hackport/runs/7941483762?check_suite_focus=true#step:8:296
20:56:39 <qrpnxz> that's one reason i'd want to return a ptr yes, you can turn it into a bytestring zero-copy, or feed a MutableArray# with it and so on. If i were to create a safe read-only interface, i'd have to write wrappers for functions like that
20:56:41 <qrpnxz> int-e:
20:56:48 <tomsmeding> monochrom: Java has a pretty substantial runtime system :p
20:56:48 <monochrom> {Algol, C, Pascal, Perl, PHP} RTS only needs to do setup, jsr main, teardown.
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20:57:05 <hololeap> (there's no template haskell in the project, at all)
20:57:13 <int-e> "Sign in to view logs", meh.
20:57:32 <monochrom> OK I forgot GC. But Java is not sequential-only either. An elaborate green-thread system, second to GHC only.
20:57:43 <tomsmeding> true
20:58:23 <qrpnxz> what i'm thinking is maybe making all FFI interaction second-class and using Array# and friends primarily.
20:58:41 <int-e> qrpnxz: The idea was that you could pack the thing up as a bytestring, and that would give consumers ways to access it. But maybe you have more structure that isn't conveniently conveyed that way. Or something that isn't byte-based.
20:58:46 <qrpnxz> problem is that some really useful functions in Data.ByteString i couldn't use
20:59:10 <qrpnxz> ah i see what you mean
20:59:19 <int-e> So there are lots of reasons why this might not be applicable.
20:59:25 <qrpnxz> yes that's easier than making a newtype
21:00:28 <hololeap> int-e: http://sprunge.us/7x21Bm
21:00:31 <geekosaur[m]> I can't see what is failing. But I'll note that ghc errors conflate TH and other bytecode (such as ghci which would be used by for example doctest)
21:00:34 <hololeap> search for "Couldn't match type"
21:01:13 <tomsmeding> hololeap: what is exe/Main.hs:155
21:01:18 <tomsmeding> that $[] looks suspicious
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21:01:45 <NewbiePlumber> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ALhcr2CL
21:01:50 <NewbiePlumber> The function in question ^
21:01:51 <tomsmeding> oh github is a thing
21:02:00 <geekosaur[m]> I need to get back to my desktop to look up ghc's special LTO-ish option
21:02:24 <hololeap> https://github.com/gentoo-haskell/hackport/blob/eca4652fd70f886e6990381c9f5b9a21257c1e30/exe/Main.hs#L155
21:02:45 <geekosaur[m]> -split-sections?
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21:03:21 <qrpnxz> actually, there's a way to get a ptr from a Bytearray#, so i could use those, and then you'd still have the option of turning that into a bytestring temporarily for that API, and it would let you create Data.Text zero-copy to boot.
21:03:43 <hololeap> is it misinterpreting ($[]) as TH?
21:03:48 <tomsmeding> hololeap: somehow?
21:03:56 <tomsmeding> hololeap: can you reproduce it in a file without CPP
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21:04:38 <geekosaur[m]> Usually when ghc blames TH it's complaining about loading a shared object into bytecode
21:05:07 <tomsmeding> geekosaur[m]: looks like a parse error here, it's interpreting ($[]) as some TH quote
21:05:17 <tomsmeding> I suspect {-# LANGUAGE CPP #-} with a misbehaving CPP
21:05:37 <tomsmeding> but then the error just lists "($[])" which somewhat disproves that supicion
21:05:40 <tomsmeding> *suspicion
21:05:52 <hololeap> it's only doctests that seem to have a problem with it, and it was working fine not too long ago even with that same line
21:06:08 <hololeap> but the CPP is not necessary. I should remove it anyway
21:06:37 <NewbiePlumber> on the commandline: warning: unrecognised warning flag: -Wl,-static
21:06:47 <NewbiePlumber> Error trying those linker options (from project.cabal)
21:07:44 <NewbiePlumber> Oh, are those supposed to be in the linker section?? Ok, newbie
21:07:44 <hololeap> I also find it odd that doctest fails and still returns exit code 0
21:09:05 <tomsmeding> hololeap: consider it a value judgement on documentation -- "who cares about a few errors, we wrote docs in the first place!"
21:10:00 <hololeap> it doesn't usually do that. this is the first time I've seen it silently fail
21:10:12 <hololeap> (not quite silent, thankfully)
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21:15:28 <qrpnxz> looks like vector 0.13 just came out?
21:15:42 <qrpnxz> or am i mistaken
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21:17:45 <int-e> hololeap: Oh, this seems to be a change in ghc-9.0 and TemplateHaskell. http://paste.debian.net/1251246/
21:18:56 <int-e> hololeap: so https://github.com/gentoo-haskell/hackport/blob/master/exe/Main.hs#L155 will need a space between $ and [].
21:19:34 <int-e> (Why is TemplateHaskell enabled? I guess the cabal file does that... and it's needed for other files.)
21:20:16 <tomsmeding> int-e: funnily, the behaviour seems changed from ghc-9.0, but only ghc-9.2 shows a warning about the syntax if -XTemplateHaskell is _not_ enabled
21:20:20 <tomsmeding> seems like the wrong way round...
21:21:11 <int-e> Yeah, that must have been an afterthought. I wonder whether there's a ticket.
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21:22:17 <geekosaur> qrpnxz, came out in june, just got a revision (probably upper bounds)
21:23:04 <qrpnxz> thanks
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21:23:51 <hololeap> TemplateHaskell isn't enabled anywhere in the project. it's something doctest is doing
21:26:49 <int-e> tomsmeding: Not an oversight, really. It's https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0229-whitespace-bang-patterns.rst which says: ".. implemented:: 9.0, but missing the warnings proposed here"
21:27:25 <tomsmeding> ah
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21:51:33 <hololeap> removing {-# LANGUAGE CPP #-} got rid of the error message
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22:25:17 <NewbiePlumber> I've been struggling with this error for some time now, and would like to resolve it: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/aLakskPi
22:25:27 <NewbiePlumber> Cabal and raw ghc commands build the project just fine
22:25:44 <NewbiePlumber> I'm on an aarch64 machine, but stack thinks I'm on arm64
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22:26:27 <NewbiePlumber> I don't know why. I've tried pointing stack to system ghc distributions, unsuccessfully. I've also tried building ghc from source and pointing stack to it, also unsuccessfully.
22:28:35 <NewbiePlumber> The full output is too large, but the other errors are like 10k of these:
22:28:35 <NewbiePlumber> Linking src/Main.a ...
22:28:41 <NewbiePlumber> Linking src/Main.a ...
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22:29:26 <geekosaur> aarch64 and arm64 are the same thing
22:29:52 <NewbiePlumber> They're very, very similar, but there are subtle differences
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22:31:14 <NewbiePlumber> (IIRC, the differences are in the ABI, not the instruction set, FWIW)
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22:31:58 <geekosaur> are you confusing AArch64 with Apple's ABI?
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22:32:17 <geekosaur> ("AArch64" predates Apple ARM Macs by several years)
22:32:19 <NewbiePlumber> 10k of these (slashes wouldn't paste right here) https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Vc9jmQCf
22:33:44 <NewbiePlumber> I may be. My understanding of the differences between arm64 and aarch64 are from this repo: https://github.com/iains/gcc-darwin-arm64
22:35:31 <geekosaur> the very title of that page is "Branches for AArch64 (Arm64) Darwin/Mach-O"
22:36:12 <geekosaur> my former employer was doing AArch64 Linux builds in 2016 so I know it was around back then
22:36:18 <geekosaur> Arm64 may be the new one
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22:36:32 <jean-paul[m]> I'm looking around for a library for bayesian classification. I see a few obscure things not on stackage and I see hbayes which has some warnings on it trying to scare me away. Anyone have any recommendations in this space?
22:44:52 <monochrom> Is https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-bayes relevant? And https://monad-bayes-site.netlify.app/_site/about.html
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23:35:19 <jean-paul[m]> I'm reading its docs and trying to decide. I can't really tell.
23:35:36 <qrpnxz> hmm, in rust i can just hand you an immutable ref to my buffer willy nilly and later write to it because the compiler checks you are not holding it anymore by that time. In haskell i'll have to create a newtype and do CPS, or some highly side-effecty runtime reference tracking, to do something like that. Maybe linear type would help? For now i think copying might be the sane way to go, even if not
23:35:38 <qrpnxz> as efficient.
23:38:03 <jean-paul[m]> I want to be really lazy and have an API something like `classify :: Map k Text -> Text -> k`. I think monad-bayes is more about computational bayes than classification (presumably I could /build/ classification on top of it but ...
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All times are in UTC on 2022-08-21.