Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-08-22 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:20:35 <energizer> is there a conventional name for the function (\x->True) ?
00:23:48 <monochrom> const True
00:25:13 <energizer> ok
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00:30:49 <qrpnxz> lol
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01:43:16 <pareto-optimal-d> <NewbiePlumber> "I'm on an aarch64 machine, but..." <- I saw a comment about stack going by libtinfo and getting the wrong ABI, maybe thats it.
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04:45:11 <Clinton[m]> In GHC 9.2, if I have a module that exports `T(..)`, lets say I have field `blah`, how can I import `blah` so I can use `x :: T ... x.blah` in an importing module?
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05:38:27 <pavonia> Clinton[m]: import Foo (T(blah))
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07:23:06 <tomsmeding> jean-paul[m]: monad-bays is indeed for bayesian _inference_ in an arbitrary model, whereas it seems you're looking for bayesian _classification_ -- something I know nothing about so I also can't help you :p
07:23:57 <tomsmeding> qrpnxz: linear types could help with that -- after all, rust's tracking is using some (extended) form of linear types as well
07:24:16 <tomsmeding> but it's not going to be as nice in haskell as it is in rust
07:25:41 <[exa]> tomsmeding: for some definition of "nice"
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07:26:51 <tomsmeding> [exa]: relative to how nice things usually are in the respective languages :p
07:27:55 <tomsmeding> hopefully thereby eliminating some of the subjective prejudice of the reader concerning both languages
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07:29:29 <[exa]> tomsmeding: ok that's a nice way to say "abysmal" :D
07:29:42 <tomsmeding> [exa]: rust is quite a nice language
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07:30:05 <tomsmeding> syntax is a lot more noisy than haskell, but for an imperative language and for the things that it allows you to do in that setting, it's quite nice IMO
07:30:15 <[exa]> otoh I thought that the linearity with e.g. the vectors didn't bring in too much new weirdness except for having to care about the lollipops everywhere?
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07:30:53 <tomsmeding> yeah, but in rust you have nested ownership (borrowing) done for you without any work from your side, whereas in haskell you'd have to pass the vector around everywhere, including returning it from callees
07:31:29 <[exa]> yeah well, State
07:31:33 <tomsmeding> like, borrowing is the raison d'etre of rust
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07:32:11 <tomsmeding> you can borrow non-lexically in rust nowadays ;)
07:32:20 <tomsmeding> so you'd need applicative brackets in haskell to get the same level of nativeness
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07:41:26 [exa] expects -XMagicState
07:42:57 <tomsmeding> if you want some hacker cred, implement it and present about it next year at HIW :p
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07:44:37 <[exa]> nah, I already tried twice and it failed :D
07:44:56 <[exa]> guessing operation order is hard
07:46:33 <tomsmeding> if you have to guess operation order, it should error out saying that the notation is ambiguous
07:46:53 <tomsmeding> i.e. if "left-to-right" doesn't unambiguously decide the order
07:47:46 <[exa]> yeah that's almost never the case (guess the order of let bindings)
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07:51:50 <tomsmeding> since you're implementing a call-by-value language, basically, I would expect standard call-by-value semantics
07:51:59 <tomsmeding> i.e. if the let-bindings don't make sense in lexicographical order, error
07:52:37 <tomsmeding> or rather, if lexicographical name-resolving would yield a different answer from full-recursive name resolving
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08:21:16 <dminuoso> Is there a way to force GHC into generating a jump table for a given case-of construct?
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08:22:21 <merijn> Don't think so
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08:37:26 <dminuoso> I am amazed. I have a `data DomainLabel = DomainLabel { label :: ByteString, labelCaseFolded :: ByteString }`, and if I unsafely create that DomainLabel via `DomainLabel l l` I get much worse performance than if I use my smart constructor that also does explicit case-folding on the second field.
08:37:53 <dminuoso> Less code executes slower. :)
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08:40:17 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: wild guess, but maybe the original label references some large bytestring whereas the case-folded one is small, and you don't actually end up using the original label so it gets GCd?
08:43:09 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Mmm, they are all generated via Data.ByteString.Char8.pack
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08:44:13 <dminuoso> But yeah, I think I should be using ShortByteString anyway
08:44:47 <dminuoso> Given that most my labels are only 1 byte long, there's going to be extreme heap fragmentation
08:45:01 <tomsmeding> O.o 1 byte is pretty short
08:45:25 <tomsmeding> are these dns labels? How are dns labels usually 1 byte long
08:45:34 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: ip6.arpa zone
08:45:47 <dminuoso> They encode each octet of an ipv6 address as a separate label
08:45:56 <tomsmeding> that's dumb
08:46:03 <dminuoso> No its actually pretty good.
08:46:27 <dminuoso> It reduces zone fragmentation by a lot
08:46:49 <tomsmeding> hm makes sense, interesting
08:46:52 <tomsmeding> but yeah definitely SBS
08:46:53 <dminuoso> Oh no hold on
08:46:57 <dminuoso> No its worse in IPv6!
08:47:02 <dminuoso> It's done per-nibble
08:47:05 <tomsmeding> lol!
08:47:28 <dminuoso> So you have 0.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.a.e.c.5.a.b.c.1.2.b.b.d.f.ip6.arpa.
08:47:30 <dminuoso> for example
08:47:40 <tomsmeding> but I mean, if we're talking about ipv6 addresses here, the longest they'll get is 16 bytes
08:47:56 <tomsmeding> which is still Pretty Short
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09:22:55 <einfair__> what i need to read to create a widget ?
09:23:37 <einfair__> i mean my separate subclass which will draw itself
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09:32:16 <dminuoso> Mmm. "foo"# gives me an Addr# fancy. :)
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09:45:11 <tomsmeding> einfair__: xmonad?
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09:48:04 <einfair__> tomsmeding: in GI.Gtk
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10:01:31 <dminuoso> Mmm, as far as I can say, word2Int# is a no-op, can someone confirm this for me?
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10:07:14 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: looks like it https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/compiler/GHC/StgToCmm/Prim.hs#L1075
10:08:55 <tomsmeding> see also https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/compiler/GHC/Builtin/primops.txt.pp#L265 :p
10:09:06 <tomsmeding> oh wrong one, but word2Int# has the same annotation
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10:13:33 <tomsmeding> see also the definition of opNop in that same GHC.StgToCmm.Prim file
10:13:46 <tomsmeding> "res := arg;"
10:15:12 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Is StgToCmm/Prim.hs the single authoritative implementation of primops?
10:15:47 <dminuoso> I thought there were also out-of-line primops in rts/PrimOps.cmss or even foreign primops
10:16:01 <dminuoso> *rts/PrimOps.cmm
10:17:11 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: the index of all primops is in that primops.txt.pp file
10:18:01 <dminuoso> Oh, presumably all of this is just resolved at linker time?
10:18:39 <dminuoso> Or maybe not? Im confused how or where GHC differentiates between rts/PrimOps.cmm and compiler/GHC/StgToCmm/Prim.hs
10:19:12 <tomsmeding> ah no I lied a bit
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10:19:17 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: see primops.txt.pp:150
10:20:32 <dminuoso> Ahh, so `out_of_line = True` appears to control when they, at least, have a cmm implementation
10:20:53 <tomsmeding> see also rts/PrimOps.cmm:11-12 :)
10:21:00 <tomsmeding> well, 9-12
10:21:10 <dminuoso> "for most of those with the attribtue out_of_line=True"
10:21:13 <dminuoso> o.o
10:21:17 <tomsmeding> :')
10:21:22 <tomsmeding> who said ghc was well-engineered
10:21:27 <tomsmeding> (I'm joking)
10:21:43 <dminuoso> Well, any project of this size has *some* cruft.
10:21:47 <tomsmeding> yeah
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10:24:00 <[Leary]> There's a 60 page paper about how much cruft there is in GHC. <.<
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10:28:04 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: I think I solved some performance problems with this already: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/4a447d1587474d8aea60d5b845a8988c
10:28:29 <tomsmeding> > repeat 'f'
10:28:31 <lambdabot> "fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff...
10:28:38 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Look at that # at the end.
10:28:41 <tomsmeding> yes
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10:28:51 <tomsmeding> 👌
10:28:54 <dminuoso> :)
10:29:17 <dminuoso> Its quite cool that you can do a quick lookup packed lookup table this easily with MagicHash
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10:30:29 <tomsmeding> I'm wondering if you really need the full extent of those lookup tables
10:31:00 <tomsmeding> in particular, a branch on n whether it's >=16 isn't that expensive
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10:31:27 <tomsmeding> and clearly that ipv4Labels lookup table can be one long ByteString indexed at offset 3*key ;)
10:32:07 <dminuoso> Huh!
10:32:35 <dminuoso> Why didn't I think of that.
10:32:43 <dminuoso> Though you meant just ByteArray# right?
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10:32:47 <tomsmeding> :D
10:32:50 <dminuoso> :>
10:32:53 <tomsmeding> not sure it really makes much of a difference
10:33:03 <dminuoso> ByteString *is* just a ByteArray plus some convenience
10:33:05 <tomsmeding> doing +0 is not going to cost much time
10:33:17 <dminuoso> What do you mean by +0?
10:33:28 <tomsmeding> well, that's what a ByteString indexing operation will end up doing, right?
10:33:40 <tomsmeding> add the offset of the view to the passed-in index, and index the ByteArray# there
10:33:44 <tomsmeding> the offset being 0
10:34:50 <dminuoso> So this is actually interesting now
10:34:58 <dminuoso> So you're suggesting to ditch ShortByteString
10:35:15 <dminuoso> This is a difficult proposition, as heap fragmentation will now depend on the percentage of in-addr arpa labels
10:35:35 <tomsmeding> if it's one big lookup table that will live for the full length of your application, I'd naively think this is the place to use ByteString
10:35:56 <tomsmeding> oh you mean that all the arpa labels will now re-use those ShortByteStrings?
10:35:58 <tomsmeding> hmm
10:36:16 <tomsmeding> I hadn't considered that
10:36:29 <tomsmeding> then maybe this is better actually
10:36:42 <tomsmeding> assuming that V.Vector is a boxed vector :D
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10:36:50 <dminuoso> It cant be unboxed
10:36:55 <tomsmeding> right
10:37:09 <dminuoso> Unless we had a FixedByteString of sorts
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10:37:33 <tomsmeding> actually I feel like what you want here is something like c++'s std::string with small-string optimisation
10:37:47 <tomsmeding> i.e. store the string in the object if its length is < 8 bytes, otherwise make a heap allocation
10:38:04 <tomsmeding> and in the latter case, store the address in those same 8 bytes
10:38:31 <tomsmeding> and then unbox said "std::string" wherever you use it
10:38:42 <tomsmeding> because the object itself is a fixed size
10:38:53 <tomsmeding> not sure haskell will allow you to do this pointer-punning though, probably not :p
10:39:07 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Well in IPv4 the labels are not fixed sizse.
10:39:16 <dminuoso> Oh hold on
10:39:43 <dminuoso> That's sneaky.
10:40:26 <tomsmeding> IIRC ghc's GC will not allow this because it wants a predictable layout of pointer/non-pointer fields in data types
10:40:49 <tomsmeding> in which case you lose 8 bytes for having to separate the embedded small string and the optional heap pointer, which is not too bad
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10:57:14 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: I reused this trick for case folding by the way.
10:57:21 <dminuoso> And it helped shave off another 15% of runtime performance. :)
10:57:25 <tomsmeding> :o
10:57:27 <tomsmeding> nice
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10:57:55 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/739bff02a3bc94339e6b4ee5fb732ffb
10:57:57 <dminuoso> :)
10:58:07 <tomsmeding> ._.
10:58:16 <dminuoso> (And the actual foldCase implementation is just a `BS.map foldCase_`)
10:58:17 <tomsmeding> neat
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10:58:51 <dminuoso> Inside that hot spot I think it's at least an order of magnitute faster
10:59:00 <tomsmeding> yeah I can see how this particular example is quite a bit cheaper
11:01:05 <dminuoso> Now I have this last bottleneck left and Im not sure I can get rid of that one without turning an eye on idealism
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11:02:23 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: By the way, why do you think this example is quite a bit cheaper? I think the main cost is not even the branches but the cache unfriendly pointer indirection
11:02:58 <tomsmeding> lot more code, not sure what c2w is doing, and it uses at least the amount of memory
11:03:04 <tomsmeding> it's strictly more stuff
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11:03:25 <dminuoso> With the Addr# trick the entirety, I will just keep 4 cache lines, which in a tight loop will not even be evicted
11:03:32 <dminuoso> c2w is a noop
11:03:41 <tomsmeding> well, I guess what you do gain with the before.hs is that you don't do anything for the unchanged bytes -- but there are only 256 values anyway
11:03:42 <tomsmeding> ah
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11:04:26 <tomsmeding> how much have you already sped up the whole thing with all tricks combined
11:04:26 <dminuoso> With a case-of, wouldnt each character reside as a heap allocated object?
11:04:45 <tomsmeding> not necessarily, the code to create said heap-allocated objects will be there
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11:04:54 <dminuoso> With all tricks combined I went from 3.3s to 2.1s total runtime
11:05:08 <dminuoso> But my program does lots of other things
11:05:09 <tomsmeding> > (3.3 - 2.1) / 3.3
11:05:11 <lambdabot> 0.3636363636363636
11:05:14 <tomsmeding> nice
11:06:11 <dminuoso> Well actually the earliest version after the recent rewrite was like 10ish seconds, but that was just an Ord instances that recomputed the case-folded each time without memoization
11:06:32 <dminuoso> (turns out this is terribly bad if you're inserting a few hundred thousand domains into a map)
11:06:33 <tomsmeding> ah :p
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11:06:40 <tomsmeding> heh
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11:08:39 <dminuoso> My next issue is pretty printing. :(
11:09:14 <tomsmeding> wild idea: have two maps, one for domains <=24 bytes, one for domains >24 bytes. The latter one is what you have here, the former one is mostly the same, but then IntMap (IntMap (IntMap Domain)), since three Int64's combine to cover the bytes of a 24-byte domain
11:09:31 <tomsmeding> the point being that an IntMap is not a binary tree, it's wider, and wider is good
11:10:01 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: The map uses (Domain, RecordType) right now.
11:10:40 <dminuoso> And RecordType has 49 constructors
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11:11:00 <tomsmeding> just use a B-tree already :p
11:11:11 <tomsmeding> my suggestion was just a poor-man's b-tree
11:11:29 <dminuoso> Heh I already do use tries in a few places
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11:11:44 <dminuoso> Though the insertion is not a hot spot
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11:13:26 <dminuoso> My main issue with pretty printing is that I have this desire to support arbitrary dns labels in my library (for no real reason other than idealism)
11:13:57 <dminuoso> Which means I cant just reuse my bytestring as a text buffer (text-2.0 yay!)
11:14:15 <tomsmeding> because escaping?
11:14:37 <dminuoso> Right
11:14:42 <tomsmeding> check if you need to escape first, and if not, reuse?
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11:15:00 <dminuoso> My presentation format will backslash escape dots, and backslash + octal escape non-ascii alpha numeric bytes
11:15:13 <dminuoso> Mmm
11:15:51 <dminuoso> Actually you have a very valid point there.
11:16:14 <dminuoso> Given that its not actually the case, just scanning *whether* it has to be done is *much* *much* faster than using a huge Data.Text.Builder construction
11:16:22 <dminuoso> I did not think of that
11:16:25 <tomsmeding> and you don't need to worry about escaping being slightly slower now because you're looping over the thing twice, because by your assumptions that's going to happen ~never :
11:16:27 <tomsmeding> * :p
11:16:36 <dminuoso> Heh :)
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11:16:38 <tomsmeding> right
11:16:40 <carbolymer> has anyone of you had errors in Paths_* files generated by cabal? my example: https://bpa.st/7DDA - It's 99% because of some bazel shenanigans, but I'm wondering when this can happen (btw. is it dependent on cabal version?)
11:17:28 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Its just frustrating now to have a [ShortByteString] array, many of them with 18 entries, and then suffer on this indirection...
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11:17:48 <dminuoso> Brrr
11:17:58 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: if you're going to pretty print everything multiple times, cache the pretty-printed buffer?
11:18:04 <tomsmeding> (i.e. the concatenated one, most of the time)
11:18:49 <dminuoso> Sure, but that doesnt really help because I have to compute it either way
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11:19:26 <dminuoso> And I *do* need the [Label] representation because I do a lot of trie operations in a different place
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11:19:53 <dminuoso> But either way, its *still* faster.
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11:20:31 <dminuoso> Or I could special case the arpa zones, a secondary constructor for them..
11:21:24 <dminuoso> a kind of `data Domain = DomainReg [DomainLabel] | DomainArpa6 {-# UNPACK #-} !Word64 !Word64 {-# UNPACK #-} | DomainArpa4 {-# UNPACK #-} !Word32`
11:22:03 <dminuoso> Given how many arpa entries we generate, this might also reduce allocations by a bit
11:22:19 <merijn> dminuoso: You're missing an unpack in the Arpa6 :p
11:22:35 <merijn> wait, no, you just transposed the unpack and second field
11:22:37 <dminuoso> Yeah I screwed up the ordering. It's in the wrong position :)
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14:30:20 <whereiseveryone> hi, what is a monoid?
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14:35:39 <geekosaur> something extremely simple
14:36:12 <geekosaur> it's something that you can combine in some way, and which has an "empty" value that can be "combined" with some value to get the same value back out
14:36:13 <dminuoso> whereiseveryone: A monoid is anything equipped with two things: an associative binary operation, and an identity element with repsect to that binary operation
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14:40:54 <dminuoso> whereiseveryone: List addition with the empty list, Integer addition with 0, Integer multiplication with 1, Boolean and with True, Boolean or with False, endofunction (that is, functions whose input and output type is the same, like functions of type Float -> Float) composition with `id` function
14:41:11 <dminuoso> As a list of random examples
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15:51:01 <raehik> Using singletons-th to promote a simple type which holds a Natural to a singleton. This works in GHC 9.2, where Natural is a type & kind, but in 9.0 I'm getting an error related to `type Demote Nat = Natural`
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15:51:46 <raehik> Any singletons users here have an idea how to attack this? do I simply have to write the singleton out myself?
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16:06:08 <lyxia> raehik: have you seen https://github.com/goldfirere/singletons/issues/478
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16:07:43 <raehik> lyxia: Thanks very much, that's what I needed. Hopefully I didn't need this singleton in the first place, but that's a solution if I do
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18:57:32 <tomsmeding> sm: you don't use -Wall? Or do you mean that -Wall saved your back
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19:14:55 <sm> tomsmeding: I use it but always disabled a few "useless" warnings
19:15:05 <tomsmeding> hah
19:15:18 <tomsmeding> I'll grant you that sometimes name shadowing is precisely what you want
19:15:36 <tomsmeding> I find myself writing `foo = \x y -> go x y a b where go x y = ...` to avoid the name shadowing warning
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19:20:26 <sm> I shall mend my ways henceforth!
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19:22:19 <qrpnxz> i'm so glad i have 128GiB of memory: https://a.uguu.se/rMWSmPnP.png
19:22:45 <tomsmeding> ._.
19:23:03 <tomsmeding> it would've fit in my 32
19:23:17 <qrpnxz> not with my other processes :)
19:23:28 <qrpnxz> but yes 32 is rather comfortable
19:23:42 <qrpnxz> HLS is an absolute memory hog man
19:23:44 <qrpnxz> like wow
19:23:46 <tomsmeding> qrpnxz: for curiosity, how large are the projects you have open
19:23:50 geekosaur has only 16GB
19:23:59 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: you shouldn't need more
19:24:01 <tomsmeding> but then ghc
19:24:10 <geekosaur> still, considering that my first computer had 8KB…
19:24:51 <geekosaur> (and I got by for over a year with only 4GB on this one)
19:24:58 <fgaz> why is that gnome-shell using 2.7 gb??
19:25:11 <geekosaur> because it's gnome-shell
19:25:11 <qrpnxz> i've got let's see... 5 project open. 2 rather significant ones, the other just little test ones
19:25:12 <tomsmeding> and 50% cpu, for that matter
19:25:25 <tomsmeding> qrpnxz: why three 5GB HLS processes then
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19:25:42 <janus> fgaz: did you know that gnome has integrated web technologies ;)
19:25:43 <qrpnxz> i've no idea lol
19:25:46 <geekosaur> but if you're running wayland, it's the desktop manager + the compositor + window server + window manager
19:25:59 <tomsmeding> qrpnxz: mind if I use your screenshot (with your username scrubbed) at a talk in a while to illustrate why I'm not going to run a bunch of HLS processes on a server
19:26:08 <geekosaur> everything all in one scary big ball of crap
19:26:12 <qrpnxz> also one of the project i have two vs code windows open for it. Idk if they share the process since it's the same project
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19:26:26 <tomsmeding> maybe not :D
19:26:27 <qrpnxz> tomsmeding: lol no problem
19:26:37 <janus> isn't a display manager supposed to handle login? i don't think wayland does that
19:26:59 janus is reminded of LightDM
19:27:04 <geekosaur> I didn't say display manager
19:27:17 <janus> oh
19:27:20 <janus> :P sorry
19:27:22 <geekosaur> but it is one in a different sense: it's the graphical system backend
19:27:32 <janus> what's a desktop manager?
19:27:45 <geekosaur> with X11 you have the X server. the compositor serves the same purpose in wayland
19:28:17 <geekosaur> with the all in one gnome mentality it's your file manager, taskbars, etc.
19:28:39 <geekosaur> and all the services in common between gnome components
19:28:47 <qrpnxz> as for gnome-shell, i've got 9 virtual desktops, each with like 2-5 windows, and a second monitor with a couple more windows
19:29:34 <janus> i switched from ubuntu to debian stable , so back to Xorg :P
19:29:35 <qrpnxz> gnome to me very productive. I like the arrangement of gnome 3.36 better, but oh well
19:29:50 <qrpnxz> (now using GNOME 41)
19:29:52 janus is becoming a curmudgeon :O
19:30:10 <darkling> janus: Welcome to the club!
19:31:32 <janus> but yeah, i guess the wayland model is a theoretical improvement, and probably a practical one too, for some :P
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19:32:05 <fgaz> someday I should migrate from X... someday
19:32:06 <qrpnxz> the responsiveness usually good, but i get some serious stuttering lately that i'm working on these big haskell project. I'm still not totally sure if it's a thing the latest gnome or HLS or what to be fair though. I know that logging back in fixes it, but that also closes everything i have open haha so
19:33:20 tomsmeding can restart i3 without closing anything
19:33:43 <qrpnxz> i3 is not a session manager so that make sense :)
19:33:48 <tomsmeding> right :p
19:34:45 <qrpnxz> i tried dwm and such for a bit, but i really appreciate sliders and drag and drop and stuff. GNOME just require so little thought to use.
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19:35:19 geekosaur uses xmonad as wm for mate, best of both worlds
19:35:22 <tomsmeding> I got used to dwm on a machine that really could not take much more
19:35:30 <qrpnxz> with graphical apps, i rarely want to tile much more than split right down the middle. For terminals i can use dvtm or tilix
19:35:32 <geekosaur> and mate is considerably smaller than gnome
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19:35:48 <qrpnxz> GNOME runs fine on my crappy laptops for the record
19:36:36 <qrpnxz> if gnome didn't exist, i'd likely use xfce
19:36:45 <fgaz> looks like it's just making use of all that wasted ram then :-P
19:37:12 <qrpnxz> indeed i do think that apps pull more ram sometimes just because there is more ram
19:37:32 <qrpnxz> so if 64gib is all you have ever known, you might think 8gib is totally unusable, but not really so
19:37:49 <tomsmeding> for GC'd languages that may well be so
19:37:56 <tomsmeding> and with electron being a thing nowadays...
19:38:10 <qrpnxz> as an avid haskell user, can't complain much about GC :)
19:38:15 fgaz is on 8 gb...
19:38:22 <geekosaur> 4GB's plenty usable. 2GB, though
19:38:32 <tomsmeding> I mean, I would have said haskell instead of JS, but I don't have many haskell-based GUI apps yet :p
19:38:34 <qrpnxz> oh man, 2GB is a really hard ask
19:38:38 <tomsmeding> though I have 4 electron apps
19:38:42 geekosaur still has an ancient netbook he uses for a few things
19:38:49 <geekosaur> now try to run chrome on it 🙂
19:39:01 <tomsmeding> I tried to run Xcode on a 2GB Mac Mini long ago
19:39:04 <qrpnxz> there was an interesting editor project in haskell called Xi for Mac, but i think it died? i don't remember
19:39:08 <tomsmeding> not very sucessful
19:39:10 <qrpnxz> i just use VS Code for everything pmuch now
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19:39:29 <qrpnxz> (I bring Xi up as graphicall haskell app example)
19:39:39 <geekosaur> there's the yi project, which is currently dead but every so often someone picks it up and develops it a little more
19:39:46 <geekosaur> but it wasn't graphical
19:39:47 <qrpnxz> i might have meant Yi
19:39:47 <tomsmeding> yeah there _are_ graphical apps in haskell, they are just not _quite_ as widespread
19:39:58 <tomsmeding> wasn't Xi in Rust?
19:40:10 <qrpnxz> maybe lol
19:40:26 <tomsmeding> "same difference"
19:40:30 <qrpnxz> yi is haskell it looks like https://github.com/yi-editor/yi
19:40:34 <qrpnxz> tomsmeding: i kind of wish
19:40:36 <geekosaur> was intended to be a vi-alike with haskell extension language and specializing in haskell tooling
19:41:03 <geekosaur> every so often I wonder if mixing it with HLS would be interesting, or if HLS just killed it for good
19:41:03 <qrpnxz> yeah, and xi is rust https://xi-editor.io/
19:41:05 <qrpnxz> lol
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20:48:48 <carbolymer> I think a year ago I was looking into build systems e.g. shake
20:49:05 <carbolymer> and someone here recommended me another one, also in haskell
20:49:25 <carbolymer> hosted on github
20:49:32 <carbolymer> but I forgot that name :|
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20:57:10 <eikke> Hello! I've been working on some somewhat tricky code to get the GHC RTS to work with libpsx. In order to do so, I need to expose a C symbol as part of the link process. I have a package with some `C-Sources`, and in the test-case coming with said package, I have the package itself as a `build-depends`, and things work just fine. However, if I add the package as a `build-depends` of a test-case of
20:57:16 <eikke> *another* package, it doesn't, and the linker bails out claiming the given symbol is not defined.
20:57:46 <eikke> Anyone have a clue why 1. there'd be a difference in linking between the test-case-in-the-package and test-case-in-another-package, and 2. why the symbol wouldn't be resolved in the first place?
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21:14:20 <_________> carbolymer: stack maybe ?
21:15:11 <carbolymer> _________: nope, it was more closer to shake
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21:17:06 <geekosaur> https://github.com/judah/pier ?
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21:25:39 <sakura> I'm new to Haskell and am wondering what are the options for color in ghci?
21:25:40 <sakura> At the moment im using https://gist.githubusercontent.com/sorki/d59ddca8995ff8c2ec8e7d8490260de6/raw/e1b896a6420f3f13d174a123db1648b4f90f1627/ghci.conf as my ~/.ghci
21:25:40 <sakura> It does not syntax highlight type signatures, i.e when I do :t take and it does not syntax highlight as I type.
21:25:40 <sakura> Is there a wrapper or something which provides this functionality
21:26:23 <sakura> Im not used to irc either so apologies for the formatting of my message
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21:32:36 <qrpnxz> sorry i don't know, but maybe work from a file?
21:35:50 <geekosaur> I don't think a lot of work has been done on syntax highlighting recently. there's some ancient stuff on hackage but almost certainly bitrotted at this point
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21:40:34 <sakura> Ah I see, I'm coming from Rust so don't normally work in an interpreter so it's probably not a big issue. For when I use python, I use bpython which is pretty nice.
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21:43:07 <geekosaur> I come from the 80s so I don't really miss it 🙂
21:43:48 <geekosaur> I've played with VS Code a bit but have worked for decades without such things
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21:46:13 <sakura> Ah fair. I do like my colors. The default code completion settings for Haskell and VSCode was bonkers so I dropped using it and reverted back to good ol vim
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21:47:04 <carbolymer> geekosaur: nah, it was something more abstract, not stack replacement
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21:48:35 <[Leary]> sakura: Try adding ghcid on the side. It gives you type errors and warnings, and can run snippets from your files (given a certain prefix).
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21:50:52 <sakura> Leary: Thanks for the tip
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22:04:39 <zzz> haskell doesn't really need syntax highlighting honestly. just keywords like data, type, newtype, let, where... maybe symbols vs letters
22:04:52 <zzz> dim comments
22:05:11 <zzz> but anything else is pretty much unnecessary
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22:58:49 <qrpnxz> finally gonna get to use the Tenet Monad (forward and backwards state transformer) xDD. Love this thing.
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23:00:47 <qrpnxz> or damn, i could just use a stream. lol interesting!
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23:06:17 <dsal> qrpnxz: tardis
23:06:30 <qrpnxz> better known as tardis monad yes :)
23:06:50 <qrpnxz> i think Tenet fits better, but hey
23:06:57 <qrpnxz> not bad either
23:07:08 <dsal> Someone didn't grow up with Doctor Who. :p
23:07:14 <dsal> I've only ever used tardis to confuse people.
23:07:36 <hpc> chronologically, almost everyone alive grew up with doctor who :D
23:07:46 <dsal> haha
23:07:57 <qrpnxz> yeah i didn't, but i have watched and rewatched from eccleston to capaldi
23:08:01 <qrpnxz> good show
23:08:58 <dsal> I recently watched Whittaker. I liked it.
23:09:34 <qrpnxz> i like her, but i don't like the writing of the new one. Hope it get better.
23:10:16 <dsal> More actual history telling stories that people don't actually know that well. I appreciated that part.
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23:29:34 <sm> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/breakpoint seems quite useful. Am I right in thinking a plugin like this is cheap to have enabled all the time, no significant impact on compilation ?
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23:50:00 <Benzi-Junior> hey, is there a way for me to declare a constant without giving it's type
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23:50:19 <hpc> yes
23:50:20 <dibblego> x = "hi"
23:50:32 <Benzi-Junior> i.e. I want something like "myConst :: Num a -> a"
23:50:40 <dibblego> x = 9
23:50:50 <hpc> :t let x = 5 in x
23:50:52 <lambdabot> Num p => p
23:51:36 <hpc> haskell's type inference (without extensions) can infer types for any valid code, so you technically never need to write a type signature
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23:52:42 <hpc> type checking and type inference are basically the same equations in the opposite direction, but that's a whole other topic :D
23:54:01 <dsal> Benzi-Junior: myConst :: Num a -> a is a function. Do you mean `myConst :: Num a => a` ?
23:54:16 <dsal> Actually, not a function, just invalid syntax.
23:57:33 <Benzi-Junior> so the problem I'm having is that I have a type signature for most of my functions, and pretty much every one is a "Floating a => ..." and for one of the functions I wanted to hard code this constant (because it was that or add an extra variable to the type signature of every function) but when I added it I got a "no instance of Double arising from Floating a" error and if I try to give it the
23:57:35 <Benzi-Junior> type "Floating a => a" I get an illegal type signature error
23:57:41 <Benzi-Junior> dsal: yes
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23:58:35 <c_wraith> "no instance of Double" tells me you put (Double a) as a constraint on something
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23:58:45 <c_wraith> but Double is a type, not a class

All times are in UTC on 2022-08-22.