Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-09-06 (liberachat/#haskell)

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03:22:17 <Clinton[m]> lets say I have:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/1fffb80628f6f97a9c57dee892c8899f93ae780c)
03:22:24 <Clinton[m]> * lets say I have:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/f2362879554a88c436428b2e1d476598c8e30622)
03:22:45 <Clinton[m]> * lets say I have:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/b06abf051a67ee0efbeb7bd43e8a050c4f78178e)
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03:23:03 <Clinton[m]> * lets say I have:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/dbd7362cb27c4bb4e7fd709782f91b4d0a47fa71)
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03:36:19 <jackdk> Clinton[m]: `g = (f .) . T`, but that's less good generally =)
03:37:02 <jackdk> Clinton[m]: `g a b = f (T {a, b})` with `-XNamedFieldPuns`
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03:37:30 <jackdk> Clinton[m]: `g a b = f (T {..})` with `-XRecordWildCards`
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03:55:58 <qrpnxz> was bout to upload my first hackage package, but you need to get a person to manually give you upload privs :/ hopefully soon :)
04:01:41 <qrpnxz> which got me thinking, i don't even know how to pull a dep that isn't from hackage without having the lib in the repo
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04:15:58 <maerwald[m]> qrpnxz: you can specify urls to a package tarball in cabal.project
04:16:03 <maerwald[m]> In the packages section
04:16:26 <jackdk> qrpnxz: when emailing the trustees, a link to the repo will smooth the process. Also https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html (search: source-repository-package) is the way I usually recommend to pull in an external dep. https://github.com/brendanhay/amazonka/discussions/716 has examples of doing this for amazonka, for both cabal and stack.
04:17:06 <qrpnxz> thanks for the tips!
04:17:56 <jackdk> yw
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04:21:26 <qrpnxz> this is it btw: https://git.sr.ht/~qrpnxz/effectful-st in case you are interested
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04:23:42 <jackdk> I'm still using mtl for pretty much everything, but that looks neat. You probably want to put some upper bounds on those dependencies; `cabal gen-bounds` can give you a good initial set and `cabal outdated` will let you know if you need to support more recent stuff
04:24:18 <qrpnxz> damn, i missed the up-bound for primitive. Thanks!
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06:22:37 <bebu> hi all, i read in LYAH that we can use `let a = 9` in ghci but in script merely doing `a = 9` is enough. I tried `let a = 9` in script and loaded it with `:l` in ghci, but i got an error. Does it mean i can use bind names using let only in the ghci repl?
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06:29:49 <c_wraith> bebu: ghci used to make sense, but then it got "friendlier", which means "harder to understand"
06:30:18 <c_wraith> it pretends you can just type in whatever haskell code now
06:30:32 <c_wraith> But it also still has the old mode of operation, where it pretends to be lines in a do block
06:30:46 <c_wraith> so there is no longer a single mental model for what it's doing.
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06:32:55 <c_wraith> the "let ..." form is the do-block mode. It copies the syntax of local declarations with a do block.
06:33:23 <c_wraith> the form without a let is top-level declaration mode. It copies the syntax of top-level declarations.
06:34:57 <c_wraith> If you're putting code in a file, use the appropriate syntax for the place you're putting the declaration.
06:35:40 <c_wraith> only ghci will accept them as if they're interchangeable. And even ghci will only do that at the top level
06:36:47 <bebu> i see--thanks for your comprehensive reply. appreciate it.
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07:20:40 <qrpnxz> oh, i guess i can upload now? I didn't get an email, but on hackage i seem to be allowed to upload atm
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07:42:31 <qrpnxz> ah no, i think i don't have access
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09:44:41 <dminuoso> Time to use haxl and manage servers in parallel! Evil ansible, be gone!
09:44:56 <dminuoso> I am going to regret this decision, aren't I?
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10:21:42 <pavonia> For Integer, is there a faster way to find the least significant set bit other than iterating through all bits?
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10:24:35 <pavonia> Hhm, some links on Hackage are broken: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.17.0.0/docs/src/GHC.Bits.html#line-539 --> e.g. unsafeShiftR works, integerShiftR is broken
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10:27:20 <int-e> that's an interesting link
10:27:57 <int-e> <a href="../https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-bignum-1.3/docs/src/GHC.Num.Integer.html#integerShiftR/GHC.Num.Integer.html#integerShiftR">
10:28:14 <int-e> probably something got moved and automatically patched and... well... went wrong
10:29:12 <int-e> while the links that work are internal to the module, it seems
10:30:28 <int-e> "probably"... well, it's a possibility. there are other likely ones.
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10:34:18 <dminuoso> pavonia: You can case-of on Integer, and handle the IS constructor specially with an unrolled loop that just & tests the bits.
10:35:03 <dminuoso> That would be faster in case its conceivable your Integer mostly fit into Int#
10:35:47 <pavonia> The Integer is big
10:36:26 <pavonia> Actually, I need to find the first *unset* bit, sorry. But I guess the principle is the same
10:36:38 <dminuoso> pavonia: Hand written AVX code over the bignum representation then.
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10:38:00 <pavonia> What is AVX code?
10:38:01 <dminuoso> Id have to research how ghc-bignum representation works
10:38:31 <dminuoso> pavonia: SIMD instructions on modern x86 processors
10:39:17 <pavonia> Uh, I'm not familiar with assembler at all
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10:44:20 <dminuoso> pavonia: either way, you can just poke at the bignum internals, and do something like:
10:44:42 <dminuoso> check for each word-sized limb (see https://gmplib.org/manual/Integer-Internals) whether its 0
10:44:53 <dminuoso> if its not zero, use your unrolled loop
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10:44:58 <dminuoso> if it is, check the next limb
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10:46:27 <dminuoso> Also, see: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/integer-gmp-1.1/docs/GHC-Integer-GMP-Internals.html#t:BigNat
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10:47:35 <dminuoso> You can use sizeofByteArray# to find the number of limbs
10:49:37 <pavonia> Those broken links are annoying
10:51:13 <dminuoso> Use something like indexWord32Array# to index into the limbs
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10:51:34 <dminuoso> Oh wait, word sized.
10:51:51 <dminuoso> So be careful with the computation on the number of limbs there.
10:52:43 <pavonia> I don't even understand how BigNum is defined. Like what is a limb?
10:54:52 <pavonia> I guess it's easer to `mod` in blocks of 64 bits or so and test if all bits are set in this block, though not that efficient
10:55:17 <dminuoso> pavonia: a limb is to a bignum what a byte is to little endian.
10:55:47 <dminuoso> in bignum, the number is cut into word-sized chunks called `limbs`, and these stored in little-endian order
10:58:42 <pavonia> Okay
10:59:15 <dminuoso> Id do research on what is meant by "word" here.
11:00:09 <dminuoso> These terms were grossly confused by decades of assembly writers.
11:00:41 <dminuoso> They somehow have gotten the notion that a "word" meant 2-bytes. Others understand it as the native register size
11:01:07 <dminuoso> But I think the wording of haddock makes it obvious
11:01:10 <dminuoso> It stores Word# sized chunks
11:01:54 <dminuoso> So use `let n = sizeofByteArray# unpacked in ...` and loop over that, pulling limbs off with indexWordOffAddr#
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12:14:58 <Kalhauge> Hi! Anybody here have a good grasp on how to use typelevel strings (aka Symbols) as expersion level strings?
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12:23:59 <qrpnxz> Kalhauge: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.17.0.0/docs/GHC-TypeLits.html#v:symbolVal
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12:24:46 <merijn> Kalhauge: No, but I can recommend you some good whisky and a therapist for when you come to regret this question some weeks into the future? :D
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12:28:11 <Kalhauge> qrpnxz: Well I'm trying to use the singleton library to represent an e-DSL type system, and if you embed the Symbol in your ADT, then you can't use it anywhere else than in the types.
12:28:41 <Kalhauge> merijn, I might already be ready for suggestions :).
12:29:32 <Kalhauge> data SSymbol n = SSymbol String
12:29:32 <Kalhauge>   deriving (Show, Eq)
12:29:33 <Kalhauge> symbol :: forall n. KnownSymbol n => SSymbol n
12:29:33 <Kalhauge> symbol = SSymbol (symbolVal (Proxy @n))
12:29:34 <Kalhauge> data MyType
12:29:34 <Kalhauge>   = MyRef Symbol
12:29:35 <Kalhauge> data SMyType t where
12:29:35 <Kalhauge>   SMyRef :: SSymbol n -> SMyType (MyRef n)
12:29:36 <Kalhauge> type instance Sing = SMyType
12:29:36 <Kalhauge> instance KnownSymbol n => SingI (MyRef n) where sing = SMyRef (symbol @n)
12:29:54 <qrpnxz> idk about singleton lib, but surely you could use it even if you gut it in an ADT, consider: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.17.0.0/docs/GHC-TypeLits.html#t:SomeSymbol
12:30:18 <Kalhauge> That is my current example, but now MyType can only live at the type level.
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12:30:47 <merijn> Kalhauge: Maybe you want "MyRef (Proxy Symbol)"?
12:31:08 <qrpnxz> indeed
12:33:16 <Kalhauge> That does not work, as it will no longer allow me to use MyRef at the typelevel:
12:33:50 <Kalhauge> expr :: Expr (MyRef "hello")
12:37:45 <dminuoso> Kalhauge: Im somewhat confused, what is it exactly that you want?
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12:47:22 <Kalhauge> I like to represent an e-DSL type-system, represented as an ADT, in the type-level of haskell. Fx. I'll like to write::
12:47:22 <Kalhauge> data Expr t where
12:47:23 <Kalhauge>    Add :: Expr MyInt -> Expr MyInt -> Expr MyInt
12:47:23 <Kalhauge>    ...
12:47:24 <Kalhauge> One of my types use string type literals, so that I can write something like Expr (MyRef "example"), but I would also like
12:47:24 <Kalhauge> to eventually do something like
12:47:25 <Kalhauge> typeOf :: Expr t -> SMyType t
12:47:25 <Kalhauge> And finally erase the typelevel information:
12:47:26 <Kalhauge> erase :: SMyType t -> MyType
12:47:26 <Kalhauge> But Currently I cant build a (MyRef Symbol) on the expression level.
12:47:27 <Kalhauge> I was thinking if I did something wrong and maybe I can define `data MyType = MyRef String`, or should I just build a new type
12:47:27 <Kalhauge> `data EMyType = EMyType String` Which represents erases expression level MyTypes?
12:47:28 <Kalhauge> Did that clear it up, or muddy the water even more?
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13:11:29 <Kalhauge> I found the solution, I think the correct thing is to use the SingKind and Demote into another ADT. http://localhost:8080/file/nix/store/xn6k9fd47fhv6c83sd6i1qlnsc9pall9-singletons-3.0.1-doc/share/doc/singletons-3.0.1/html/Data-Singletons.html#t:SingKind
13:12:17 <Kalhauge> And now with a working link: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singletons-3.0.2/docs/Data-Singletons.html#t:SingKind
13:12:29 <Kalhauge> Thanks for the help tho :)
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15:49:27 <troydm> can I have a class constrain on type variable in data type definition?
15:49:31 <troydm> like
15:49:49 <troydm> data Num a => MyType a = MyInt a
15:50:16 <troydm> it seems to compile fine, except when I run stack ghci, then it complaints on data type contexts
15:50:26 <troydm> Illegal datatype context (use DatatypeContexts): Num a =>
15:51:01 <c_wraith> you used to be able to, but it was turned off by default because it doesn't do what you hope it would.
15:51:16 <troydm> c_wraith: hmm, so what should I do?
15:51:27 <c_wraith> put the context where it's needed.
15:51:35 <c_wraith> ie, where things actually use it
15:51:37 <troydm> c_wraith: in fun definitions only?
15:51:47 <troydm> c_wraith: okey, got it
15:52:39 <jonathanx> I just created a newtype I'm pretty sure already exist somewhere.
15:52:40 <jonathanx> newtype Any a = Any {underAny :: forall b. (forall x. a x -> b) -> b}
15:53:54 <jonathanx> It's for working with DataKinds-"decorated" GADT:s, when you want to hide the type info
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15:54:18 <jonathanx> Anyone know if there is a similar type defined in some common package?
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15:59:11 <c_wraith> jonathanx: I don't think I've seen it expressed exactly that way, but... did you CPS it intentionally?
16:00:03 <c_wraith> I've definitely seen variants that look more like newtype Foo f = Foo (forall x. f x)
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16:01:20 <c_wraith> Err. no, that's not quite right. You'd want an existential there. data Foo f where Foo :: f x -> Foo f
16:01:59 <jonathanx> Aren't those equivalent?
16:02:20 <c_wraith> No. the first one is polymorphic. the second is existential.
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16:03:21 <jonathanx> Anyway, I made it a while ago. I can't remember why I opted to CPS it, I think it may have had something to do with unbound type variables escaping the context, but I can't remember the details
16:03:41 <c_wraith> like, the newtype only accepts values that are polymorphic over all x. You could pass it Nothing, but not Just ()
16:03:54 <c_wraith> the existential would allow either as an argument
16:04:02 <jonathanx> right
16:04:09 <jonathanx> thanks
16:04:32 <jonathanx> I might revisit the way it's implemented, skipping the CPS would be nice
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16:04:45 <c_wraith> Anyway, I've definitely seen the existential form a few times. I can't remember specifics offhand.
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16:05:16 <jonathanx> ok
16:05:33 <c_wraith> So yeah, it shows up. But it's not something especially standardized, as far as I can recall.
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17:37:55 <troydm> I have f that has two clauses
17:38:04 <troydm> like
17:38:06 <troydm> f 1 = 1
17:38:08 <troydm> f 2 = 2
17:38:25 <troydm> I would like to define where with helper functions for both clauses
17:38:30 <troydm> how can I do that?
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17:39:02 <geekosaur> you can't, without making it a case within a single equation
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17:39:28 <troydm> geekosaur: ic, thx
17:39:37 <geekosaur> or using guards instead of separate equations
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18:56:52 <Athas> Is it me that just isn't grasping something fundamental, or is the state of responsive prettyprinting still pretty dismal?
18:58:56 <monochrom> What does "responsive" mean in this case?
19:00:50 <Athas> Inserting linebreaks to respect (as much as possible) a maximum width, for example.
19:01:29 <Athas> That is possible with Wadler-style printers, and you might define prettyprinters for tuples and lists that allow the space after a comma to instead be a linebreak, if necessary to respect the maximum width.
19:02:11 <Athas> However, what happens when you prettyprint a list of tuples? It might produce things like "[(a,b), (a,b), (a,\nb)]". (Mostly in more complex cases.)
19:02:56 <Athas> The problem is that the layouters tend to be "greedy", or at least not look for an optimal solution. Now, this _is_ a somewhat hard problem, but not impossible. It's essentially similar to text justification, which is solvable with dynamic programming.
19:03:32 <Athas> For now I've just abandoned the idea of respecting a maximum width, and insert all linebreaks manually in the prettyprinter definitions. But it feels crude.
19:03:44 <monochrom> I wouldn't call it dismal, but I think no one has paid attention to this point, sure.
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19:04:45 <Athas> It seems to crop up whenever I want to prettyprint nontrivial compositions of structures.
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19:07:51 <monochrom> In emacs, I accidentally created a file FE.h when I intended FE.hs but made that typo.
19:08:11 <monochrom> A few minutes later, "why are you in C mode not Haskell mode?" ... "Oh..."
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19:22:42 <dolio> I don't think treating it like test justification is what people generally want to see.
19:22:47 <dolio> Text, even.
19:23:38 <dolio> Usually, if I have a list of tuples, I don't ever want a linebreak to occur inside a tuple.
19:24:10 <monochrom> That's what Athas said.
19:24:56 <dolio> Oh, they were saying that the bad thing is the justified approach?
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19:25:23 <monochrom> I believe that text justification was brought up because Knuth uses a badness and dynamic programming algorithm. A similar algorithm, but with badness defined based on not wanting to split a tuple, can be used.
19:25:56 <monochrom> So, perhaps hyphenation should have been brought up instead.
19:26:09 <Athas> Yes, I want to split tuples at top level (if needed), but almost never when nested.
19:26:32 <Athas> Except maybe I have a list of extremely large tuples. Then perhaps I want a linebreak after every tuple, and also after each tuple component.
19:26:52 <Athas> And above all I want consistency: every tuple should be printed the same way.
19:27:32 <dolio> I thought there were pretty printers that will, e.g. put a whole list on one line, or, put every element on its own line, which is often what I want.
19:27:37 <Athas> To me these are perhaps the most fundamental aspects of printing data structures, and Wadler/Hughes-style prettyprinters don't really seem to work this way.
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19:28:45 <dolio> Wanting something to look like a paragraph is more rare.
19:29:05 <Athas> I don't want that, so it's fine if that is not supported.
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19:29:20 <Athas> Although incidentally, the 'fill' combinator (or whatever it's called) from Hughes paper can do that quite nicely.
19:29:26 <Athas> Er, Wadlers paper.
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19:55:08 <monochrom> tomsmeding: https://paste.tomsmeding.com is giving me 502.
19:58:24 <tomsmeding> monochrom: not anymore!
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19:58:38 <tomsmeding> sorry, had been updating things but apparently stopped halfway through?
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22:03:03 <c_wraith> hmm. there was a proposal a while back to add syntax for importing modules only for use in template Haskell splices. anyone remember which proposal that was?
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22:35:13 <c_wraith> ah. it was https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/412
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23:51:26 <johnjaye> what does it mean if ghc complains about undefined reference to mbind and -lnuma? i'm trying to compile and run hello world.
23:58:40 <geekosaur> your ghc was bui;t with NUMA support and you need to install libnuma? (on debian/ubuntu/mint it's libnuma1; can't tell you about others)
23:59:40 <johnjaye> i have no idea, i just ran ghcup after the software i wanted to run rejected the debian ghc version as too old

All times are in UTC on 2022-09-06.