Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-09-15 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:06:12 <fmgornick> ?src zipWith
00:06:12 <lambdabot> zipWith f (a:as) (b:bs) = f a b : zipWith f as bs
00:06:13 <lambdabot> zipWith _ _ _ = []
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00:07:33 <Axman6> I guess IRC is quicker than google?
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00:13:18 <geekosaur> I keep being tempted to link them the relevant part of the Report
00:13:31 <geekosaur> since that's where most of @src comes from
00:13:47 <Axman6> and @src is a lie in many cases right?
00:14:25 <geekosaur> ghc doesn't use the Report defs for a lot of things
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00:14:59 <geekosaur> but @src is largely true to what the Report says, because its database is mostly built from the Report
00:24:28 <monochrom> Denotationally, @src is probably not a lie.
00:26:00 <monochrom> Actual base code and GHC optimizations go out of their way to match the strictness and non-strictness of sample code from the Haskell Report.
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00:28:21 <monochrom> Even worse, even where nubBy should be UB (i.e., when you supply a non-equivalence relation), base goes out of its way to match the accidental answers of the Report sample implementation.
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02:02:31 <Clinton[m]> Any ideas on this stackoverflow question? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/73724849/running-sequence-over-a-conduit
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02:13:02 <jackdk> Clinton[m]: I always forget conduits are monad transformers
02:14:46 <jackdk> @pl \v -> f v *> l
02:14:46 <lambdabot> (*> l) . f
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02:15:36 <jackdk> Clinton[m]: please put this on SO for me, I don't have my login handy: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/vhNbTLNJ/ConduitFun.hs
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02:15:51 <jackdk> `fc'` is silly, you probably don't want to do it that way
02:16:07 <jackdk> Also redundant parens on line 20
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02:21:19 <jackdk> Clinton[m]: Could also factor out the map of `f` first: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZaQ3FdD0/MoreConduitFun.hs
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02:44:53 <oats> geekosaur, monochrom, ah found it finally https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hookup
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02:51:33 <monochrom> Ah, having a maximum length is much better.
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03:31:27 <Clinton[m]> jackdk: any way to avoid the explicit loop? I thought there might a existing combinator that does this?
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03:32:25 <jackdk> *shrugs* I don't use `conduit` unless it's simple stuff plugging into a snoymanverse library. If I'm doing anything complicated I usually go through `streaming`
03:32:32 <jackdk> So I don't know
03:32:39 <jackdk> Didn't see anything when I skimmed the docs
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05:25:58 <c_wraith> is there some reason why I need to tell cabal to use transformers >= 0.6, even though it doesn't conflict with any of my dependencies (direct or transitive)?
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05:50:45 <qrpnxz> how does GHC react if i have two packages with modules of the same name?
05:50:54 <dminuoso> It does not mind.
05:51:07 <dminuoso> You can use -XPackageImports to disambiguate imports
05:54:52 <qrpnxz> that seems simple enough cool
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07:09:54 <kuribas> what is the procedure around hackage revisions.
07:09:59 <kuribas> ?
07:10:13 <dminuoso> You can just edit a hackage package and make changes right on hackage.
07:10:16 <dminuoso> That's it.
07:10:29 <kuribas> shouldn't they be only about dependencies?
07:10:38 <dminuoso> Or the package description.
07:10:41 <dminuoso> Hackage wont let you touch other things
07:11:05 <dminuoso> (And a few other metadata things)
07:11:11 <kuribas> hmm, I am using a package where the hackage version differs from the github head, even though they have the same revision number.
07:11:13 <dminuoso> https://github.com/haskell-infra/hackage-trustees/blob/master/revisions-information.md#what-can-revisions-change
07:11:41 <dminuoso> Revision is not something that exists inside a cabal package
07:11:56 <dminuoso> You pretty much just edit the package on hackage, and will update it in place, you dont edit the cabal and reupload it (sadly)
07:12:15 <dminuoso> Which means if the maintainer forgets to upstream his revision change into github, it will get overriden the next time you run sdist+upload
07:13:25 <dminuoso> It's pretty much just a cabal file editor in the web page of hackage
07:13:25 <kuribas> dminuoso: https://github.com/phadej/hkd/blob/master/hkd.cabal#L4
07:13:33 <dminuoso> Oh what is this
07:14:01 <kuribas> so x-revision is not about hackage revision then?
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07:14:52 <dminuoso> It seems all fields starting with x- are just arbitrary custom fields you can set
07:14:56 <kuribas> I suppose the problem then is not the revision, but the fact that this package was not uploaded to hackage.
07:15:09 <dminuoso> So yeah, its just an arbitrary field, presumably managed by phadej by convention
07:15:09 <kuribas> I'll make an update request.
07:15:20 <kuribas> right
07:16:18 <dminuoso> It would have been much nicer if revisions were managed like this *shrugs*
07:16:33 <dminuoso> But much of hackage is just weird adhoc things
07:18:51 <kuribas> In any case, I think it is good to release often (with minor version bump).
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10:36:21 <Square> I'm very much looking forward to the GHC wasm backend. Any progress reported on that?
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10:39:45 <yushyin> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/21200
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10:56:23 <absence> geekosaur: so the locale system works, and that's what getLocaleEncoding uses, and yet locale reports UTF-8 and getLocaleEncoding reports ASCII. a bit of a head scratcher :)
11:02:50 <Square> yushyin, thanks. I knew about that one. I was wondering if some public talk was made around it.
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11:08:07 <int-e> absence: But `locale` will not tell you whether the selected locale actually works. For example, for me, it'll say 'LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8', but getLocaleEncoding will return ASCII, because I have not actually enabled that in /etc/locale.gen. LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 works.
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11:08:47 <int-e> (Hmm, I don't know whether the locale.gen is Debian specific or generic.)
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11:12:30 <int-e> Heck I don't even know where `locale-gen` stores its stuff, is it just /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive ? I guess so.
11:15:24 <absence> int-e: ugh, it was because the haskell program was build with nix, which for some reason uses a patched glibc that requires a LOCALE_ARCHIVE env variable that points to the locale-archive directory. if i set that, it works
11:15:48 <int-e> ah, software conspiring against you, even better
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11:17:57 <dminuoso> Mmm, Im starting to prefer a simple traverse with an IORef to collect data over just Writer. Im succumbing to side effects.
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11:23:06 <int-e> That's just not Write.
11:24:07 <dminuoso> It's close enough *shrugs*
11:24:41 <int-e> dminuoso: But have you abstracted from this and made a MonadWriter instance for a newtype around Monoid a => ReaderT (IORef a) IO ...
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11:27:54 <checkum> hello, world
11:31:46 <mniip> you coud store a in the IORef and pretend that your monoid is Endo a
11:33:32 <checkum> type Safe = IO
11:33:44 <dminuoso> Im just reevaluating whether using mtl for "lets collect a few errors" is a sensible thing at all. Especially since the lack of IO makes integrating debugging much more annoying
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12:39:17 <Profpatsch> What’s the easiest way to generically say “if all fields in my records are (Parser _), I can give you a parser of the record”
12:39:46 <Profpatsch> I feel like this should be doable for any record?
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12:42:25 <geekosaur> sounds vaguely Applicative (sequenceA)
12:43:05 <geekosaur> and, conveniently, Applicative works well with parsers
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12:44:04 <Profpatsch> geekosaur: yeah but if I want to write a function “give me any record of parsers, I will give you a parser for the record”
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12:44:38 <geekosaur> if you have sequenceA, it should be written for you
12:44:48 <geekosaur> but the record has to be Applicative
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12:45:44 <Profpatsch> geekosaur: Can I make data Foo = Foo { bar :: Parser Int, baz :: Parser Bool } into a traversable?
12:46:23 <Profpatsch> Parser if a Functor, but Foo has to be a traversable
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12:47:14 <geekosaur> mm, dunno
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12:48:11 <checkum_> should be a new type if your data structure doesn't have type parameters
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12:48:46 <Profpatsch> I guess you can implement it specifically for your Parser type
12:48:52 <Profpatsch> via :*:
12:49:05 <Profpatsch> But I never sucessfully used the Generics interface before to define my own instances
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12:50:58 <Profpatsch> I was very close to implement something like that for superrecord
12:51:02 <Profpatsch> But I never finished it
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12:51:56 <absence> what's the name of that pattern where you define the record as data Foo f = Foo { bare :: f Int, ... }? could be used for sequenceA if you don't mind Identity wrappers...
12:52:21 <geekosaur> higher kinded data?
12:52:32 <absence> ah yes
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13:07:43 <Profpatsch> absence: ftypes implements that
13:07:47 <Profpatsch> But I think it’s a dead end
13:08:17 <Profpatsch> err dtypes https://github.com/timjb/dtypes
13:08:21 <Profpatsch> (not on hackage)
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13:40:14 <adamCS> Profpatsch: There's also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/barbies-2.0.3.1/docs/Barbies.html
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13:43:16 <Profpatsch> weird naming but ok
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13:44:02 <adamCS> Profpatsch: Yeah. Had that thought as well!
13:44:04 <Profpatsch> holy crap it’s downright creepy
13:44:09 <Profpatsch> Barby.Wear
13:44:11 <Profpatsch> Barbie.Bare
13:44:12 <dminuoso> "barbies-2.0.3.1: Classes for working with types that can change clothes."
13:44:37 <adamCS> Yep. I think there are other libs...
13:44:38 <dminuoso> "Covering and stripping"
13:44:44 <Profpatsch> wtf
13:44:54 <adamCS> Yikes. I didn't read that far.
13:45:12 <dminuoso> But still, the best wordplays are from `monad-chronicle`.
13:45:31 <dminuoso> This is just golden: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-chronicle-1.0.1/docs/Control-Monad-Chronicle.html#t:MonadChronicle
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13:52:21 <adamCS> Profpatsch: Maybe https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hkd ? Depends what you need
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13:53:01 <dminuoso> Profpatsch: I would personally just write the boilerplate code.
13:53:22 <dminuoso> From experience, magic type libraries, higher kinded types or generics will just require so much code to write, it would be easier to just write the boiler plate.
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13:55:20 <dminuoso> 14:45:44 Profpatsch | geekosaur: Can I make data Foo = Foo { bar :: Parser Int, baz :: Parser Bool } into a traversable?
13:55:24 <dminuoso> You can make it MonoTraversable
13:55:31 <dminuoso> If that helps
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14:04:16 <lortabac> I think a Generic-based solution would make sense for a library, but in application code I would just write the boilerplate
14:05:22 <dminuoso> For library you can also just write MonoTraversable-polymorphic code
14:05:59 <dminuoso> `(Element t ~ Parser, MonoFoldable t) => t -> ...`
14:06:24 <dminuoso> It's way less intrusive than relying on generics
14:06:25 <lortabac> it depends whether the dependency on mono-traversable is acceptable
14:06:44 <adamCS> Profpatsch: There's also the in-between option of using one of those libraries for classes and writing the boilerplate of the instances yourself, rather than trying to get all the Generics stuff to work. That can be helpful if you want the other utilities it provides. But if all you want is to "traverse" then even that might be overkill.
14:06:48 <dminuoso> Mm interesting. I would say its more acceptable than demanding you expose all internals via Generics instance
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14:09:00 <dminuoso> Ah but MonoTraversable wouldnt even work
14:09:08 <dminuoso> You'd need some kind of MonoTraversable1
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16:55:54 <cacke> Hi, how do i move one element from one list to another? :c
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16:56:51 <geekosaur> with difficulty, because lists are linked lists, not arrays. perhaps you want Vector instead?
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17:11:46 <int-e> it depends on which element you want to move... move (x:xs) ys = (xs, y:ys) performs pretty well.
17:12:00 <int-e> uh
17:12:04 <int-e> ...where y = x
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17:23:12 <sm> how do you identify the element to move ?
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18:02:55 <jean-paul[m]> I can't find stripe-core in https://www.stackage.org/lts-18.28 but after updating my stack.yaml to 18.28, I don't need stripe-core in extra-deps anymore. What's going on?
18:04:39 <jean-paul[m]> dminuoso: Do you think you will maintain servant-prometheus in the future? Or should others try to consolidate their fork efforts in one new canonical upstream?
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18:34:07 <janus> jean-paul[m]: maybe the dependency that dependended on stripe-core no longer depends on it
18:34:24 <jean-paul[m]> it's my own library that depends on it
18:35:27 <jean-paul[m]> ie, I still have `stripe-core` in cabal `build-depends` but I no longer have it in stack `extra-deps`
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18:37:04 <janus> and you're building with stack?
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18:37:24 <jean-paul[m]> yea
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18:39:12 <janus> maybe your stack-generated directories were somehow corrupted. you could try deleting .stack-work
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18:39:30 <janus> or just moving it temporarily
18:39:32 <jean-paul[m]> oh scary :/
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18:42:30 <janus> jean-paul[m]: stripe-core is in https://www.stackage.org/lts-18.28/cabal.config
18:42:48 <janus> so that suggests that it is in the snapshot, i think?
18:43:09 <jean-paul[m]> Okay. That's sort of what I was hoping the answer would be. So then it's just an issue of the web list/search being broken, I guess.
18:43:33 <jean-paul[m]> (ie, https://www.stackage.org/lts-18.28/hoogle?q=stripe-core saying "no results" is just wrong ...)
18:44:42 <jean-paul[m]> Thanks for digging that out
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19:05:48 <sm> search in the page https://www.stackage.org/lts-18.28 to find out if a package is there
19:05:49 <sm> hoogle doesn't necessarily know about package names
19:05:50 <sm> also, https://www.stackage.org/lts-18.28/hoogle says "Within LTS Haskell 19.23 (ghc-9.0.2)" for some reason
19:05:51 <sm> which I guess is explained by the link right below (but still surprising, they should redirect the url)
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19:17:49 <kuribas> Is there a way to "compose" Constraints into a new constraint?
19:18:05 <kuribas> "type Cs = (C1, C2)" works, however the synonym cannot be used in many ways.
19:18:41 <kuribas> I can do "class (C1 a, C2 a) => Cs a", then "instance (C1 a, C2 a) => Cs a"
19:18:47 <kuribas> Is there no better way?
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19:21:33 <jean-paul[m]> Uhhh wow. I completely overlooked the fact that the search box on stackage.org is for Hoogle, not stackage.
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19:22:45 <geekosaur> I *think* it's a hoogle instance indexing stackage
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19:23:20 <geekosaur> (hoogle.haskell.org also indexes Stackage LTS but provides other databases as options)
19:23:47 <jean-paul[m]> I did also try some searches for stripe modules, like Web.Stripe.Types, but it doesn't return results for those either. So I guess the Hoogle part isn't working so well.
19:24:09 <kuribas> I could make a TH function to abstract this away...
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19:25:19 <lyle> What does the ":@" mean in "toMock :: Eq1 r => Model r -> Cmd :@ r -> Cmd MHandle"?
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19:25:50 <lyle> Just the name of the extension or something to base a google search on?
19:25:56 <geekosaur> lyle, : prefix marks an infix constructor name
19:26:16 <lyle> geekosaur: thanks!
19:26:19 <geekosaur> so something has a type constructor named :@
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19:27:48 <geekosaur> hoogle shows me a number of possibilities but I don't know which of them might be relevant
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19:52:54 <jean-paul[m]> I "wrote" this code today - https://github.com/PrivateStorageio/servant-prometheus/pull/2/files#diff-3c8b3c0ac5f2136f9d1fcb2c337163fc2daf17cf1a4773e75fe5fd42826e8db5R135-R146 - but I don't really understand it. For example, how can that `getEndpoints` return a value including `method`? Isn't `method` a type-level variable?
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20:06:03 <geekosaur> jean-paul[m], type and value level namespaces are distinct, so the `method` defined in the `where` clause is only related to the one at type level by that being used with `Proxy :: Proxy method`
20:06:39 <jean-paul[m]> Oh man. And there's a where clause right below defining it at the value level.
20:06:54 <geekosaur> right
20:07:02 <jean-paul[m]> How embarrassing. Thanks.
20:07:35 <geekosaur> this confuses people enough that it's often considered a bad idea to define the same name at both type and value level
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20:36:48 <zzz> i always wondered why data constructors are uppercase
20:37:12 <zzz> but i guess it's usefull to signal that no "smart constructury" things are going on when using them
20:37:23 <geekosaur> so pattern matching can tell the difference between a constructor (for structure) vs. a variable binding
20:38:20 <zzz> geekosaur: ah that makes sense. my personal style is to use | x <- whatever (pattern guards) everywhere so i don't even considered that
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20:41:29 <zzz> but in that case; parenthesis could disambiguate it anyways. `f (just x) = ...` vs `f just x = ...`
20:42:17 <zzz> i mean, nothing
20:42:31 <zzz> whatever
20:42:36 <zzz> time to take a break
20:42:38 <geekosaur> foo (Left x) vs. foo (Right x)
20:42:54 <geekosaur> vs. foo (Left Nothing)
20:43:08 <zzz> yeah i see it now
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22:11:37 <slac51150> Is my idea or `+RTS -xc` block stdout?
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22:16:30 <monochrom> I don't understand the question.
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22:17:28 <checkum> System.out.println("putStrLn \"hello, world\"");
22:18:06 <slac51150> ./binary +RTS -xc --RTS should have the normal binary output on STDOUT and the "stack traces" on STDERR as I understand it. But it seems that no output is sent to STDOUT.
22:20:04 <monochrom> worksforme cannotreproduce
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22:21:05 <smol-hors> checkum: public class HaskellProgramFactory {?
22:21:48 <checkum> let id x = x
22:23:13 <geekosaur> slac51150, how are you determining this?
22:23:19 <checkum> once upon a time I wrote a botnet client in Haskell, to flex my brain muscles (I was 16, bonnet never deployed)
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22:24:11 <checkum> I actually encountered a runtime error using the network library (runtime errors rarely occur in Haskell, with the exception of blatant negligence)
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22:24:39 <geekosaur> …
22:24:43 <checkum> I posted a question of Stack overflow, and someone found the answer I was looking for.
22:25:16 <checkum> then I read about Ross Ulbricht, founder of the Silk Road, and discovered how he was exploited by the US feds
22:25:23 <checkum> then I thought, oh shit
22:25:41 <checkum> privacy is extremely difficult
22:25:44 <int-e> this seems rather random
22:26:02 <int-e> In any case, types don't save you from network errors.
22:26:59 <checkum> this wasn't your typical runtime error...
22:27:02 <geekosaur> network *has* been a fertile source of inappropriate "unsafe" FFI calls
22:27:34 <sm> jean-paul.: re "I guess the Hoogle part isn't working so well." - see that link I mentioned on the stackage hoogle results: "Note that Stackage only displays results for the latest LTS and Nightly snapshot. Learn more." It's showing results for lts 19.23. And if you search the page of https://www.stackage.org/lts-19.23 you'll see stripe-core is no longer in that snapshot.
22:28:27 <int-e> Oh no... is it "because 'unsafe' makes code faster"... *sigh*
22:28:28 <geekosaur> sm, that just brings back the original question though: how was stack finding it?
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22:29:29 <sm> I'm unclear on the original question, but stack will happily install (compatible) packages from hackage if you ask it to, does that answer it ?
22:29:50 <monochrom> Yamamoto is a very knowledgeable and responsible person, I don't think he would do FFI or "unsafe" recklessly.
22:30:34 <monochrom> Or at least s/think/believe/
22:30:55 <sm> geekosaur: did you mean "I can't find stripe-core in https://www.stackage.org/lts-18.28 but after updating my stack.yaml to 18.28, I don't need stripe-core in extra-deps anymore. What's going on?" ?
22:31:04 <geekosaur> sm, yes
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22:31:14 <sm> stripe-core is in lts-18.28. But not in lts-19.23
22:31:56 <sm> and the stackage hoogle searches only the latter. And presents the results in a confusing way
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22:33:52 <checkum> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14172149/haskell-socks5-refusing-to-connect
22:35:27 <sm> jean-paul. and anticipating your next question, it was removed because https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stackage/blob/master/build-constraints.yaml#L7041
22:36:29 <geekosaur> checkum, ah yes. and PortNum has been deprecated in newer versions of network as a result
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22:37:38 <checkum> see! not the typical runtime error 😉 at the time I was sho ked that my program would compile but would not run. also bamboozled by the solution, which was so simple, and my overcomplexity
22:38:20 <geekosaur> what you weren't tiold is this goes all the way down to the C layer, which requires network byte order for a *host* operation. it's stupid
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22:38:49 <geekosaur> if the kernel needs to have it in network byte order, let that convert it
22:39:03 <checkum> byte order as in, a Unix vs Windows convention?
22:39:17 <geekosaur> a CPU convention.
22:39:30 <checkum> ah geez
22:39:38 <monochrom> 8086 vs 68000 convention
22:39:42 <geekosaur> originally 68020 vs. VAX
22:40:14 <geekosaur> but continuing these days because the 68020 convention was what got standardized in the late 70s
22:40:15 darkling cracks his eggs at the little end.
22:41:33 <geekosaur> but, again, this stupidly got exposed at the layer of host operations. fine, wire conventions are big-endian, but the host OS should do that conversion, not the user-level programmer!
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22:50:01 <jean-paul[m]> sm: aha. joy. I suppose I'll be re-adding extra deps someday, then :)
22:50:45 <sm> or it might get back into stackage by then
22:51:16 <jean-paul[m]> :)
22:51:26 <jean-paul[m]> I'll just carefully time to upgrades to coincide with LTSs that have it
22:52:00 <sm> your extra-deps should be customised for the resolver you're using, no big deal
22:54:35 <jackdk> This all feels like a self-inflicted problem. What is stack getting you here?
22:55:13 <sm> easy reproducibility
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22:58:54 <cacke> I really dont understand randomness, so haskell needs some inital data that determines randomness yea? so, lets say i have a function that takes a list of integers as input, and a list of numbers type Double (0-1), say i want to pick a random integer and move it to another list, what do i do? given a number between 0 and 1, how will the function
22:58:54 <cacke> know what integer to pick and move?
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23:02:21 <hpc> it works the same as other languages
23:02:27 <jackdk> There's some stuff in your question that doesn't really make sense in a pure language, like "move it to another list". Are you able to have another go at describing your problem? Maybe at a higher level, or by writing the type signatures that you think you want?
23:02:44 <hpc> the initial input to the rng might be say, the current time
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23:03:06 <hpc> you can do a bit of math to change a continuous 0-1 range into an integer 0-n range
23:03:14 <hpc> or let the library do it for you, there's some functions for that
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23:07:22 <cacke> remove it from the current list and add it to a new list
23:07:58 <jackdk> You will probably want to return a pair of "old list without the selected element" and "selected element" or something
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23:12:52 <cacke> the problem is that i need a random element and idk how :c
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23:29:22 <jackdk> You will either need to take in a random generator as input (and return the new generator with your other outputs) or make your function an IO action (i.e. return `IO (listwithoutelement, element)`)
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23:32:50 <monochrom> Every computer needs initialization for pseudo-random generators. And yes it's pseudo only. Some languages hide this fact away.
23:33:01 <cacke> my function takes in numbers (type Double) between 0 and 1 as its first input and a list as second input. but idk how to make it pick a random element depending on the number??
23:33:12 <cacke> i just dont know what to do from there
23:33:55 <hpc> well, what random input might correspond to the first element of the list?
23:33:56 <tvandinther> Hi, how can I load all modules into stack ghci? (Not just exported members)
23:34:08 <hpc> say there's... 4 elements in the list
23:34:33 <jackdk> your function (because it is a pure function) cannot initialise a random generator inside itself because that will make it do the same thing every time you call it with the same args - not random. You have two options (roughly): accept a random generator as a first argument, or return an IO action
23:34:57 <monochrom> Is this homework? Supposedly, homework has sufficient tied-in class material.
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23:35:42 <geekosaur> tvandinther, you have to arrange for them to be bytecode-compiled. binary compiled modules have lost the information about non-exported functions and can't get it back
23:36:33 <geekosaur> with raw ghci you can :load or :add a module with a leading asterisk to force bytecode compilation (:add *Foo.Bar). I don't know how you do it with stack ghci
23:39:14 <cacke> hpc what do you mean?
23:39:53 <hpc> or, alternate question
23:40:03 <hpc> i have a list [a, b, c, d]
23:40:10 <hpc> and the random number generator spits out 0.65
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23:40:15 <hpc> which element do i move?
23:40:56 <cacke> idk. thats what im trying to find out ;_;
23:41:12 × Colere quits (~colere@about/linux/staff/sauvin) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:41:37 <hpc> easier question, say it spits out 0.00
23:41:41 <hpc> or 1.00
23:41:58 <monochrom> Do you realize you just have to cut up the interval [0,1] into 4 equal parts.
23:42:25 <geekosaur> hpc is not asking the question you think he is
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23:42:33 <monochrom> Or n equal parts if your are selecting one out of n things.
23:42:46 <geekosaur> he's assuming you have the random number already. now, how do you use it?
23:43:23 <monochrom> We are all assuming that. It is now given that a Double parameter in the [0,1] interval is received.
23:44:24 <monochrom> At which point the "knowledge" that the received number is "random" becomes actually confusing.
23:44:59 <hpc> ah yeah, forget all the randomness for a second
23:45:05 <hpc> that function that just takes in a number and a list
23:45:25 <hpc> imagine putting stuff into that function by hand just to see what happens
23:45:44 <monochrom> The secondary knowledge, though, about uniform distributions is the key.
23:46:23 <monochrom> Every uniform distribution is pure, and mapping one uniform distribution to another is also pure.
23:46:42 × tremon quits (~tremon@83-84-18-241.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: getting boxed in)
23:47:29 <monochrom> Perhaps we need to begin with measure theory.
23:48:02 <cacke> i'm so confused
23:48:37 <hpc> let's get even simpler?
23:48:41 <monochrom> Oh, probability is usually taught confusingly.
23:48:43 <hpc> say i give your function the number 0.5
23:48:46 <hpc> and the list [1]
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23:59:35 <Axman6> Does anyone have a particularly good article which introduces the Reader monad? Looking at you monochrom as you know all the best things for teaching =)

All times are in UTC on 2022-09-15.