Logs on 2022-09-16 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:02:09 | <Axman6> | Did not expect for the top result for "reader monad" on DDG to be from dollarshaveclub's engineering blog! |
| 00:02:36 | <monochrom> | I didn't read such an article. I heard people saying "hey this forms a monad" and I worked it out myself. (The most retentive way of learning is reinventing.) |
| 00:02:53 | <monochrom> | But I might point students to Typeclassopedia. |
| 00:03:56 | <Axman6> | hmm, good idea |
| 00:06:26 | <Axman6> | Hmmm, it doesn't really have what I'm after - it mentioned that ((->) e) forms a monad, but I'm looking for something more aimed at the usage of it for dependency injection in real world apps |
| 00:07:40 | <cacke> | hpc idk where you're trying to get |
| 00:08:29 | <geekosaur> | cacke: break the problem down into pieces. for now ignore the question of how to get a random number. what do you do with it once you have it? can you solve that problem? |
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| 00:11:11 | <monochrom> | I don't know of such an article. |
| 00:11:45 | <cacke> | but that's exactly what i've been asking. what do i do with the number and the list? |
| 00:11:59 | <cacke> | how do i know what element to remove given a random number? |
| 00:12:19 | <jackdk> | Axman6: the "next level mtl" vid? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZPup5Iuaqw |
| 00:12:30 | <jackdk> | Not an article, admittedly |
| 00:12:49 | <geekosaur> | cacke: you have a number and a list. the list has a length. |
| 00:13:06 | <geekosaur> | you can combine the two to select an element |
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| 00:16:44 | <cacke> | how do i select an element |
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| 00:17:11 | <monochrom> | Which element do you want to select? |
| 00:17:32 | <cacke> | a random element from my list |
| 00:17:38 | <jackdk> | :t (!!) -- this is an unsafe function but should get you going |
| 00:17:39 | <lambdabot> | [a] -> Int -> a |
| 00:17:45 | <monochrom> | Is that a homework question? |
| 00:18:36 | <monochrom> | Because if it is, I want to see the original real verbatim homework question, not your misinterpretation. |
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| 00:20:09 | <monochrom> | And if it is not, we can sit back and relax and be general curiosity fiends. For example, what does "random" mean? |
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| 00:24:17 | <monochrom> | https://xkcd.com/221/ |
| 00:24:52 | <cacke> | xd |
| 00:28:59 | <cacke> | "to "pick a random element" we will use the list of random values that the function gets as its first argument." is what i'm trying to understand. Idk how to use it. |
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| 00:31:14 | <pavonia> | What is the type of those random elements? |
| 00:31:49 | <monochrom> | Alternatively, that can't be the complete homework question. |
| 00:32:20 | <cacke> | Obviously not, but it's the part I don't understand. |
| 00:32:55 | <monochrom> | Well I understand none of it, since it's incomplete. No one should. |
| 00:33:13 | <jackdk> | it sounds to me like you are to treat the list of doubles as your random source, which you get from somewhere, and you should not care how it is generated. |
| 00:33:14 | <geekosaur> | please state the entire problem, preferably in a pastebin |
| 00:33:20 | <geekosaur> | @where paste |
| 00:33:21 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 00:33:29 | <cacke> | I can't simplify the problem more than I already have xd |
| 00:33:41 | <monochrom> | No one is asking for any simplification. |
| 00:33:56 | <monochrom> | What part of "original real verbatim" is unclear? |
| 00:35:57 | <troydm> | I'm trying to parse a double String such as "123e-12" into Double using read function, how can I do it safely? I can sometimes get Double overflow but parser succeeds with 0.0 value |
| 00:36:12 | <monochrom> | Text.Read has readMaybe |
| 00:36:26 | <troydm> | that too succeeds with 0.0 |
| 00:36:32 | <troydm> | Just 0.0 to be precise |
| 00:36:32 | <monochrom> | Oh, that. I don't know. |
| 00:36:55 | <monochrom> | > read "123e13337" :: Double |
| 00:36:57 | <lambdabot> | Infinity |
| 00:37:04 | <monochrom> | That is not 0 though. |
| 00:37:10 | <geekosaur> | I'm not sure you can without writing your own parser and doing a lot of extra work:P over/underflow behavior is specified by the standard |
| 00:37:23 | <geekosaur> | s/:P/:/ |
| 00:37:37 | <geekosaur> | (the IEEE standard, that is, not Haskell) |
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| 00:38:02 | <troydm> | monochrom: ohh you are right, sorry, maybe I have somehow something mixed up |
| 00:38:12 | <cacke> | jackdk the list of doubles is generated and given to the function, it's done. Don't worry about it. I didn't ask how to generate the numbers. |
| 00:38:14 | <troydm> | it does indeed return Infinity |
| 00:38:20 | <pavonia> | > 123e13337 :: Double |
| 00:38:21 | <lambdabot> | Infinity |
| 00:38:25 | <monochrom> | 123e-13337 would become 0.0 yeah. |
| 00:38:56 | <troydm> | > read "1e-1231231313" :: Double |
| 00:38:59 | <lambdabot> | 0.0 |
| 00:39:02 | <troydm> | yup |
| 00:39:14 | <troydm> | > read "1e1231231313" :: Double |
| 00:39:16 | <lambdabot> | Infinity |
| 00:39:37 | <troydm> | so I can basicly check if I have 0.0 or Infinity values and raise exception of overflow then |
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| 00:39:53 | <monochrom> | I don't know of someone's library that catches would-be overflows and underflows. |
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| 00:40:29 | <monochrom> | Although, 0.0 is a pretty legit input number. |
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| 00:40:35 | <pavonia> | ^ |
| 00:41:14 | <geekosaur> | this is why I said write your own parser |
| 00:41:33 | <geekosaur> | C defines max and min exponents, among other things |
| 00:41:37 | <troydm> | I'm actually doing that inside a megaparsec double parser |
| 00:41:50 | <troydm> | so I'm trying to handle e notation math |
| 00:42:36 | <monochrom> | Perhaps parse to Scientific, then check ranges. |
| 00:42:42 | <troydm> | so I can check if I have e notation specified which results in 0.0 after trying to read double and raise overflow then |
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| 00:43:02 | <troydm> | should do the trick |
| 00:43:17 | <monochrom> | (then covert to Double when you are satisfied) |
| 00:43:29 | <troydm> | yup, thx |
| 00:43:44 | <troydm> | > read "-1e-1231231313131" :: Double |
| 00:43:46 | <lambdabot> | -0.0 |
| 00:44:02 | <troydm> | > -0.0 == 0.0 |
| 00:44:04 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 00:44:13 | <geekosaur> | welcome to IEEE math |
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| 00:48:32 | <cacke> | What's wrong with my question? |
| 00:49:03 | <geekosaur> | It is incomplete |
| 00:49:22 | <geekosaur> | Like, nobody had any idea that a *list* of Doubles was involved until you bothered to mention it |
| 00:49:37 | <geekosaur> | How much else does nobody here know yet? |
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| 00:51:07 | <cacke> | I clearly said that the function took 2 lists as input. |
| 00:51:57 | <jackdk> | "so, lets say i have a function that takes a list of integers as input, and a list of numbers type Double (0-1), say i want to pick a random integer and move it to another list" <- this does not indicate that the list of doubles are the random numbers given to you. |
| 00:52:39 | <jackdk> | We want to help you, but in order to do that we must understand the problem. This is why monochrom was asking for the real exact verbatim question on your homework |
| 00:58:11 | <cacke> | A list of randomly generated numbers type Double (0-1) is given to me, yes. |
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| 01:07:42 | <cacke> | All i want to do is pick a random element from the input list, remove it and add it to a new list. |
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| 01:09:36 | <cacke> | but I don't understand what to do with the random number to get the random element |
| 01:10:07 | <jackdk> | Neither do we, because you haven't posted the homework question. |
| 01:11:05 | <sm> | wow, two hours in to this one ? |
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| 01:11:40 | <cacke> | 12 hours for me so I'm actually going crazy |
| 01:11:56 | <sm> | we could show how to pick a random list element, how about that for a start ? have you tried searching the internets ? |
| 01:12:39 | <cacke> | searching the internet is what i've done the whole day |
| 01:13:32 | <sm> | I found these: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/random-extras-0.19/docs/Data-Random-Extras.html#g:4 |
| 01:14:24 | <sm> | also this, which doesn't require an extra lib: https://programming-idioms.org/idiom/11/pick-a-random-element-from-a-list/828/haskell |
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| 01:19:11 | sm | sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/125887dd2d6470c98b5e62679604199f5c4f7e22 |
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| 01:26:40 | sm | finds there is an actual beginner-friendly api for this, but it requires installing the rando lib: |
| 01:26:40 | sm | $ ghci |
| 01:26:40 | sm | ghci> import Rando |
| 01:26:40 | sm | ghci> pickOne [1..10] |
| 01:26:40 | sm | 5 |
| 01:27:32 | <sm> | ghci> :bro Rando |
| 01:27:32 | <sm> | flipCoin :: IO Bool |
| 01:27:32 | <sm> | pickOne :: [x] -> IO x |
| 01:27:33 | <sm> | shuffle :: [x] -> IO [x] |
| 01:27:47 | <jackdk> | That's leading him up the wrong path - the function he's been asked to write is to accept a `[Double]` representing the random stream. But how the individual random numbers are to be used to pick an element is unknown to me, because he has not posted that part of the question. |
| 01:28:22 | <cacke> | because there is no such part, that's why i'm here |
| 01:28:37 | <sm> | clearly after two hours solving a simpler problem is probably a good idea |
| 01:28:55 | <jackdk> | I can think of at least three different ways to use a double to select an item from a list |
| 01:29:01 | <sm> | or anyway, that's what helps me |
| 01:29:48 | <sm> | cacke: did what I showed you help at all ? you didn't say - if not, sorry for the noise |
| 01:31:30 | <jackdk> | It would have been really handy to know that, for example by sharing the complete verbatim real questions as suggested multiple times. What I think would be helpful here is to draw a diagram: Write out a short list of numbers above the real number line <---0--------1----> and think about how to map a number between zero and one into a list index (an integer between zero and "one less than the length of the list") |
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| 01:33:05 | <cacke> | sm Aww no worries, i'll save the links for later, just not sure if it's what I need right now |
| 01:35:12 | <sm> | I'm confused, because the first paste seems exactly what you were asking for at one point |
| 01:35:33 | <cacke> | I need to know what to do with my random numbers |
| 01:36:13 | <sm> | try to break the task down into simpler tasks |
| 01:37:17 | <sm> | you said you receive a list of doubles as an argument. Among other things, you'd like to pick a random item from that list ? Or did I get that wrong ? |
| 01:39:12 | <cacke> | I have a function that receives a list of doubles as its first argument, and another list of x elements as its second argument. |
| 01:39:48 | <sm> | a list of x elements ? |
| 01:40:13 | <cacke> | yeah let's just say it's a list with 10 integers |
| 01:40:20 | <sm> | ok |
| 01:41:06 | <sm> | what's your next goal/task ? |
| 01:41:07 | <jackdk> | cacke: Drawing diagrams is helpful: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/o7a0g5F2/NumberLine.png |
| 01:42:19 | <cacke> | to "pick" a random element, or integer in this case and add it to a new list. The output is a new list. |
| 01:42:40 | <sm> | I showed you how to pick a random element, right ? |
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| 01:44:23 | <cacke> | Yeah, but it doesn't show me how to use the doubles |
| 01:45:13 | <sm> | so "use the doubles" is actually your next task ? what do you mean by use the doubles ? |
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| 01:48:51 | <sm> | Sorry if I'm being pushy. You seemed to be getting the kind of "help" I got in #php yesterday, and I wanted to try to get you unstuck. Perhaps the problem is you've been going for 12 hours. |
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| 01:50:47 | <cacke> | don't worry about it, i know i'm confusing, i guess it's true that my questions have been incomplete :c |
| 01:51:09 | <jackdk> | Did you look at the diagram that I posted, which suggests a way of mapping the range (0..1) to elements of a list? |
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| 01:54:12 | <cacke> | what if i have a lot of elements? |
| 01:54:23 | <cacke> | and not just 3 |
| 01:54:36 | <jackdk> | Draw more diagrams, and think about how the length of the list changes the way the mapping works. Write out a few more examples and look for a pattern |
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| 01:55:20 | <monochrom> | Ugh if that diagram doesn't inspire you the general case, you're truly asking people to do your homework. |
| 01:55:41 | × | matthewmosior quits (~matthewmo@173.170.253.91) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 01:55:42 | <jackdk> | (When you've had a chance to sleep, check out a copy of Polya's _How to Solve It_ from your local library. It's "about" geometry, but really about problem solving strategy in general, and full of such tactics) |
| 01:56:40 | <jackdk> | Play with the numbers involved -- why is the number "3" appearing all over the diagram? |
| 01:56:42 | <monochrom> | The irony being no one ever saw the homework question. |
| 01:56:45 | <cacke> | i'm not asking anyone to do my homework or i would've pasted my homework question here as soon as i got here. |
| 01:57:17 | <monochrom> | A particular sticking point being why there is a list of Doubles not just one single Double. |
| 01:58:33 | <monochrom> | I would rather see the actual homework question. |
| 01:58:47 | <monochrom> | I refuse to play this telephone game. |
| 01:59:39 | <monochrom> | Do you know telephone games? |
| 02:00:07 | <glguy> | the things people used to use decades ago? |
| 02:00:14 | <monochrom> | haha |
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| 02:01:55 | <dsal> | The modern telephone is primarily a gaming platform for many people. |
| 02:02:06 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 02:02:49 | <glguy> | Oh, that's what monochrom means by playing telephone? Like the ad-fueled mobile games? :) |
| 02:03:07 | <monochrom> | I thought they were pay-to-win. |
| 02:03:19 | glguy | waits for the timer to reset to water his crops |
| 02:03:38 | <monochrom> | Even my sisters conceded and pay some money for star dusts or something in Pokemon Go. |
| 02:04:09 | <monochrom> | Oh you're playing one of those farming simulation mobile games? :) |
| 02:04:26 | <cacke> | i agree that the question was incomplete, what im trying to do is get a new list as output, with the elements in a random order, so, 1. pick a random element 2. remove it from the list and add it to a new list -- repeat. that's why there's a list of doubles. |
| 02:04:33 | <monochrom> | Was Tamagochi the original farming game? >:) |
| 02:05:51 | <glguy> | Mine drowned in the laundry :( |
| 02:07:08 | <monochrom> | Tsumani... |
| 02:07:19 | <sm> | cacke: feel free to ignore this, but that's still unclear - try to describe just the goal, without the proposed recipe. "get a new list .. with the elements in random order" - Is the goal simply to shuffle a list ? |
| 02:07:38 | <jackdk> | Okay, so it sounds like the list of doubles is not an infinite stream, but some finite number of random numbers that select the items to pull. That means we don't have to return the "rest of the stream" or anything like that |
| 02:07:40 | <cacke> | in other words, yeah |
| 02:08:20 | <sm> | indeed jackdk that sounds like a chunk of confusion removed :) |
| 02:09:08 | <jackdk> | We can also banish the word "random" from our description of these problems, because we are given the numbers and cannot know (and therefore must not care) where they came from |
| 02:10:06 | <jackdk> | So. Subproblem: Given a list and a double in the range [0,1), write a function to select one element from the list, returning that element and the rest of the list. What could the type signature of such a function look like? |
| 02:11:05 | → | riverside joins (~guyst@109.249.184.216) |
| 02:11:15 | <riverside> | i was asking on #ghc about build issues |
| 02:11:22 | <riverside> | specifically, linking to c libs |
| 02:11:34 | <riverside> | and having to build the c libs in order to get ghc to link to them |
| 02:12:09 | <riverside> | trying to get at something that would incorperate pacman msys2 calls into the cabal build |
| 02:12:21 | <riverside> | am i just describing stack? |
| 02:12:30 | <maerwald[m]> | riverside: cabal is not designed to handle system libs |
| 02:12:33 | <maerwald[m]> | It's out of scope |
| 02:13:03 | <maerwald[m]> | stack doesn't do that either |
| 02:13:15 | <riverside> | there is nothing we can do to help the user interface with the C side? |
| 02:13:44 | <riverside> | i guess its just i see people calling pacman with stack to access the msys2 environment |
| 02:14:30 | <riverside> | and idk, i assume that stack kind of handles the paths of its the mingw64 filesystem it creates |
| 02:14:35 | <maerwald[m]> | ghcup run -- pacman -Sy foo |
| 02:14:52 | <riverside> | ok, so ghcup is repllacing stack for that, good |
| 02:15:32 | <riverside> | nice to see something so haskell adjacent directly accessing over pacman there |
| 02:15:42 | <riverside> | instead of having to go via mingw? |
| 02:15:45 | <cacke> | jackdk i have the type signature in my code already |
| 02:16:15 | <riverside> | like, it has to be; prefix=/opt/local/x86_64-w64-mingw32 |
| 02:16:18 | <jackdk> | for the subproblem I suggested? What did you come up with? |
| 02:16:40 | <riverside> | sorry, pacman -S mingw-w64-x86_64-SDL2 |
| 02:17:11 | <riverside> | how does ghcup "be like mingw" if thats "what the distribution targets" |
| 02:17:42 | <cacke> | Oh wait i misread |
| 02:19:49 | <cacke> | that's what i don't know. given a list and a double, how do i select an element? |
| 02:19:52 | <riverside> | and can a call to ghcup combine this with a call to cabal install that somehow handles all the paths? |
| 02:20:10 | <cacke> | it's what i've been trying to understand the whole day |
| 02:20:12 | <jackdk> | did you study the diagram I posted, and write some examples of your own with other lengths? |
| 02:20:45 | <riverside> | cacke: floor? |
| 02:20:55 | <riverside> | linear interpolation? |
| 02:20:59 | <cacke> | say it's a list with 50 elements |
| 02:21:00 | <maerwald[m]> | riverside: yes |
| 02:21:10 | <riverside> | super! |
| 02:21:12 | <maerwald[m]> | But cabal knows nothing off msys2 |
| 02:21:20 | <maerwald[m]> | It won't install anything |
| 02:21:21 | <riverside> | mingw? |
| 02:21:34 | <maerwald[m]> | It has knowledge of pkg config database only |
| 02:21:45 | <maerwald[m]> | The solver uses it |
| 02:22:01 | <riverside> | ok, so it just "builds" the c lib into the pkg config setup somehow? |
| 02:22:25 | <riverside> | or like, what is pacman actually running on? |
| 02:22:50 | <jackdk> | cacke: yes, so write some examples for lists of maybe 1,2,3,4,5 and look for the pattern that lets you generalise over all of them, and therefore handle lists of any finite length |
| 02:23:14 | <riverside> | : [1..5] !! (floor 5.5) |
| 02:23:28 | <riverside> | > [1..5] !! (floor 5.5) |
| 02:23:30 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.!!: index too large |
| 02:23:35 | <riverside> | > [1..5] !! (floor 4.5) |
| 02:23:37 | <lambdabot> | 5 |
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| 02:24:13 | <riverside> | :t lookupBy |
| 02:24:14 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 02:24:15 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: lookupBy |
| 02:24:15 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
| 02:24:24 | <riverside> | hmm |
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| 02:26:39 | <riverside> | > head $ dropWhile (<30) [1..35] |
| 02:26:41 | <lambdabot> | 30 |
| 02:26:53 | <riverside> | > head $ dropWhile (<30.5) [1..35] |
| 02:26:55 | <lambdabot> | 31.0 |
| 02:28:08 | <riverside> | > head $ filter (\x -> (x-30.5) <= 0.5 ) [1..35] |
| 02:28:09 | <lambdabot> | 1.0 |
| 02:28:25 | <riverside> | > head $ filter (\x -> abs (x-30.5) <= 0.5 ) [1..35] |
| 02:28:27 | <lambdabot> | 30.0 |
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| 02:29:05 | <riverside> | cacke: maybe you could be more specific |
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| 02:30:17 | <maerwald[m]> | riverside: i don't understand your questions. I suggest to read some documentation |
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| 02:32:33 | <cacke> | its 4:30 am 💀 |
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| 02:36:05 | <sm> | sleep, come back to it, everything will go easier |
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| 02:42:14 | <riverside> | maerwald, i will consider using ghcup to do my c builds, but for now im trying to see if this sdl2 install with msys2 works |
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| 02:45:19 | <cacke> | I'm frustrated because i've spent so many hours just trying to understand the problem, I can't try to solve it if I don't understand how to use whatever i'm given to solve it. |
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| 02:47:50 | <Axman6> | cacke: ok, I think everyone is getting frustrated, because it's not clear what the goal is. if I called your function with [1,2,3,4,5] and [0.4,0.1,0.6,0.2,0.4], do you know what result you should expect? |
| 02:49:04 | <cacke> | a shuffled list |
| 02:49:08 | <Axman6> | there's a bunch of different ways to do "something" with ome Ints and Doubles, in fact, there's an infinite number of things you could do, so to help you, we need some sort of idea what result you're actually after. should the output list of ints be the same length as the input? |
| 02:49:14 | <Axman6> | ok, so now we're getting somewhere |
| 02:49:52 | <Axman6> | so, one thing we could do is match up each Int with a Double, and then sort the pairs by the double, yes? |
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| 02:51:31 | <Axman6> | > let f is ds = map snd $ sortOn fst $ zip ds is in f [1,2,3,4,5] [0.4,0.1,0.6,0.2,0.4] |
| 02:51:33 | <lambdabot> | [2,4,1,5,3] |
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| 02:52:07 | <Axman6> | that does _something_ - whether it's what you need still isn't clear to me, and feels like it's probably the wrong solution |
| 02:52:11 | <glguy> | It's too bad sortOn is so much more convenient than sortBy; it's kind of a waste in this case |
| 02:53:03 | <Axman6> | actually sortBy would avoid some allocation here, so probably the better option |
| 02:54:07 | <glguy> | It's one of those thing that probably doesn't matter, it just annoys me that it's ever so slightly worse :) |
| 02:54:18 | <cacke> | how do i write that as a function |
| 02:54:45 | <Axman6> | that is a function. do no use it for your homework if you don't understand it though |
| 02:55:36 | <sm> | cacke, frustration is understandable, we've all been there. We're frustrated because the questions and problem descriptions are too unclear and there is too much time lag for a productive conversation |
| 02:55:40 | <Axman6> | (and if you couldn't write it tomorrow without referencing this conversation, definitely do no use it - your lecturers will know its not your own work [and there is a very good chance your lecturer is in here if you're oding a uni course]) |
| 02:56:36 | <cacke> | yeah no of course |
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| 03:00:29 | <sm> | your responses are the kind of short, low effort ones that people give when they've been banging their head on something for 12 hours. It's a very low bandwidth exchange |
| 03:02:11 | <sm> | it would go easier in person. Or with a fresh mind. Best of luck |
| 03:02:17 | <cacke> | Yeah i'm just speechless because the whole situation i'm in is ridiculous |
| 03:02:27 | <sm> | been there! |
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| 03:05:37 | <Axman6> | cacke: we're happy to help (that's why we're here), but keep in mind that if we're asking questions, it's because we need the answers to be able to help you. Having some sleep will definitely help, and there's a pretty good chance your brain will figure out what you're trying to do while you sleep - enjoy your codedreams! |
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| 03:36:46 | <cacke> | I appreciate that you're trying to help. Some people really need to chill though... Good night. |
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| 07:14:21 | <kuribas> | I want to create a compound constraint. One that I can use with Dict: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hkd-records-0.0.4/docs/Data-HKD-Records.html#t:Dict |
| 07:14:45 | <kuribas> | A type synonym doesn't work, because it cannot be partially applied, and a type family neither. |
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| 07:15:20 | <kuribas> | I can do "class (C1 a, C2 a) => CS a; instance (C1 a, C2 a) => CS a" |
| 07:15:26 | <kuribas> | But I wonder if there is a better way? |
| 07:16:05 | <kuribas> | Worst case I make some TH function to do generate this Constraint... |
| 07:17:36 | <[Leary]> | Perhaps `class (c1 a, c2 a) => (c1 :& c2) a; instance (c1 a, c2 a) => (c1 :& c2) a`? |
| 07:18:10 | <kuribas> | hmm |
| 07:18:38 | <kuribas> | that might work... |
| 07:20:21 | <kuribas> | then I can do MyCompoundConstraint = c1 :& c2 |
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| 07:31:00 | <kuribas> | [Leary]: it doesn't work with my usecase, like: type LdDiffConstraints ldt = ( DiffConstraints (LdTypeAttributes ldt), ConstDiffConstraints (LdTypeRelations ldt)) |
| 07:32:17 | <kuribas> | "DiffConstraints (LdTypeAttributes ldt)" is not a simple function "LdType -> Constraint" |
| 07:32:38 | <kuribas> | I'd need a type level compose... |
| 07:34:16 | <[Leary]> | Then repeat the trick: `class f (g a) => (f :. g) a; ...` |
| 07:35:43 | <kuribas> | that becomes to complicated... |
| 07:35:48 | <kuribas> | I think I'll go with the TH. |
| 07:36:44 | <kuribas> | something like $(NewConstraint [t| LdDiffConstraints ldt] [t| ( DiffConstraints (LdTypeAttributes ldt), ConstDiffConstraints (LdTypeRelations ldt)) |] |
| 07:37:04 | <kuribas> | well, "newConstraint" better |
| 07:38:27 | <[Leary]> | Sounds more complicated to me, but you do you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 07:39:03 | <kuribas> | this stuff is easier in idris, since it doesn't have Constraint kinds :) |
| 07:39:07 | <kuribas> | Constraints are just types. |
| 07:39:22 | <jackdk> | kuribas: constraints-extras may have some gadgets that are useful |
| 07:40:10 | <kuribas> | [Leary]: I mean, (:.) has kind (Type -> Type) -> (Type -> Constraint) -> (Type -> Constraint), but then I also need (Type -> Type) -> (Type -> Type), etc... |
| 07:40:33 | <kuribas> | [Leary]: more complicate to write, yes. Not more complicated to use. |
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| 07:44:05 | <kuribas> | [Leary]: oh, I guess that's parametric over the kinds. |
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| 07:45:43 | <[Leary]> | It should be (k2 -> Constraint) -> (k1 -> k2) -> (k1 -> Constraint) |
| 07:46:08 | <kuribas> | then I still need composition over types... |
| 07:46:21 | <[Leary]> | It is a bit of a shame we can't write a properly polykinded (:.), and having to use two of them is a bit messy. |
| 07:46:26 | <jackdk> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/constraints-extras-0.3.2.1/docs/Data-Constraint-Compose.html |
| 07:47:34 | <kuribas> | jackdk: that's just (:.) |
| 07:47:51 | <[Leary]> | Oh, though if it associates correctly, can't you get away with using just this, so long as your composition always ends in Constraint? |
| 07:48:54 | <kuribas> | hmm |
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| 08:30:48 | <talismanick> | How do I pass a timeout flag to `cabal run`? I have a QuickCheck test hanging (I suspect combinatorial explosion because of naive recursion to check subexpressions in an AST) |
| 08:31:14 | <talismanick> | or, tell me on which cases it's hanging |
| 08:31:22 | <talismanick> | (using HSpec + QuickCheck) |
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| 08:57:08 | <talismanick> | nvm just realized that I accidentally encoded evaluation of SK calculus and it probably generated Y combinators |
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| 10:10:25 | <albet70> | if cabal v1-install package, how to remove it? |
| 10:12:04 | <albet70> | or cabal v2-install --lib scotty-login-session, now I can use module from this package in ghci directly, how to remove this package? |
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| 10:19:50 | <geekosaur> | if yiou v1-installed it, ghc-pkg unregister |
| 10:20:07 | <geekosaur> | if you v2-installed it, find and edit the environment file |
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| 10:22:03 | <albet70> | geekosaur , thanks |
| 10:22:26 | <geekosaur> | (if you must actually remove it, for v1 you must read the package registration first and remove the directories and files it points to. for v2-install, the line(s) in the environment file for that package will indicate a directory under ~/.cabal/store; you need to remove that directory too.) |
| 10:23:35 | <albet70> | ~/.ghc/x86_64-linux/environments/default |
| 10:23:37 | <geekosaur> | note that for v2-install this may break other packages that depend on it, since v2-install isn;t really designed to be used with --lib |
| 10:25:19 | <albet70> | use cabal.project is better for multiple project, but v2-install --lib package is too easy to use, even directly in ghci |
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| 10:25:42 | <geekosaur> | it also gets you all the problems cabal v2 had |
| 10:25:46 | <geekosaur> | "cabal hell" |
| 10:25:53 | <geekosaur> | er, cabal v1 |
| 10:26:47 | <geekosaur> | if you introduce a package conmflict in the environment file, or worse the v1 package db, good luck fixing it |
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| 10:28:34 | <albet70> | how you install pandoc by cabal? |
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| 10:28:55 | <albet70> | an executive program |
| 10:29:12 | <geekosaur> | "cabal install --exe pandoc" and wait about an hour for all the deps to build 🙂 |
| 10:29:28 | <albet70> | an hour... |
| 10:29:34 | <geekosaur> | (the --exe is optional; "cabal i8nstall" is actually intended for use with executables) |
| 10:29:41 | <geekosaur> | pandoc is huge |
| 10:30:20 | <albet70> | then I should use apt or pacman to install it |
| 10:30:27 | <geekosaur> | ideally yes |
| 10:31:17 | <albet70> | I don't familiar with nix, but nowadays I saw some haskell people using it |
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| 11:22:38 | <kuribas> | How do I pass a new Name to TH? |
| 11:22:41 | <kuribas> | as a string? |
| 11:22:50 | <kuribas> | (for example a new class name) |
| 11:30:25 | <kuribas> | hmm, I guess String if it doesn't exist yet. |
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| 12:46:26 | <kuribas> | My TH function worked from the first time. It's just so nice to have ADTs, pattern matching, static types, etc... |
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| 12:46:40 | <kuribas> | Despite TH having a complex model. |
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| 12:47:07 | <kuribas> | People can make claims all they want, but I don't ever have this experience in other languages, lisps, javas, or whatever. |
| 12:48:31 | <kuribas> | lispers may proclaim that macros are easy to write, for sure they aren't easy to debug. |
| 12:48:57 | <kuribas> | while TH is harder to write, the few times I had to write it, most if it just worked. |
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| 14:31:34 | <sm> | nice |
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| 15:39:45 | <gay9> | albet70: people use nix for the same reason they use stack: they need working and reproducible builds |
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| 16:14:59 | <kuribas> | I am getting Cannot derive well-kinded instance of form ‘FieldNames (LdTypeRelations ...)’ Class ‘FieldNames’ expects an argument of kind ‘(* -> *) -> *’ • In the data instance declaration for ‘LdTypeRelations’ |
| 16:15:24 | <kuribas> | that seems wrong, the kind of FieldNames is (k -> *) -> * |
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| 16:16:20 | <kuribas> | ah, and it works with a standalone. |
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| 16:16:32 | <kuribas> | Must be another compiler bug. |
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| 16:22:08 | <kuribas> | Maybe DeriveAnyClass has * hardcoded? |
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| 18:12:19 | <oats> | glguy, heyo, just wondering if there's any particular reason that hookup has an upper bound of base <4.17? |
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| 18:13:34 | <oats> | the other packages in irc-core are <4.18 |
| 18:20:12 | <int-e> | oats: odd? e.g. https://github.com/glguy/irc-core/blob/v2/bot/irc-core-bot.cabal#L26 |
| 18:21:35 | <oats> | oh huh. well, /glirc.cabal does |
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| 18:22:59 | <int-e> | Ah, that seems to be the only one. Good question then... |
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| 19:05:29 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | some blog says that "a language is a set of generators and relations in the style of abstract algebra" -- where can i find a definition of generator and relation? |
| 19:05:39 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | i have been through abstract algebra and don't remember these terms |
| 19:05:45 | <mrianbloom> | Given a multiparameter typeclass does the order of the parameters matter for instance selection? |
| 19:06:00 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | here was the source: |
| 19:06:03 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | https://semantic-domain.blogspot.com/2021/12/what-is-programming-language.html?m=1 |
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| 19:06:46 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | is a generator like, the generating set of a group? |
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| 19:18:24 | <sammelweis> | why can't you use a unary function like (arg `func`) ? E.g. let thousand = (* 1000) in (3.5 `thousand`) |
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| 19:19:55 | <geekosaur> | because the Haskell Report specifies what that syntax expands to and it's not compatible with that usage |
| 19:20:03 | <geekosaur> | but see the PostfixOperators extension |
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| 20:05:43 | hexeme_ | is now known as ldlework |
| 20:09:07 | <byorgey> | segfaultfizzbuzz: yes, "generators and relations" is a method of defining/presenting a group, where you specify some abstract generator elements along with some equations that should hold |
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| 20:11:14 | <byorgey> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_of_a_group |
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| 20:36:57 | <aaronv> | In `class Foo a where type Bar a b` what's the correct terminology for talking about the difference between the `a` and `b` parameters to `Bar`? From error messages I gather that `a` is a "type index" which must "coincide" with the class parameter. Is `b` also a "type index" but which doesn't need to coincide, or is it just a "parameter"? |
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| 21:04:35 | <oats> | if I've changed the "current" ghc version with ghcup, do I need to adjust a project's .cabal file to reflect the new base version? |
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| 21:06:15 | <hpc> | the version of base you're using should be in the range in the .cabal file |
| 21:06:28 | <hpc> | but you don't have to suddenly say the previous version is no longer compatible |
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| 21:06:38 | <hpc> | (unless that's true, in which case probably say that :D) |
| 21:07:03 | <hpc> | it's like any other package |
| 21:07:22 | <Jdorth> | Hi everyone, Haskell is part of my advanced course this semester .Hope to learn from everyone here :) |
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| 22:20:02 | <sm> | welcome |
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| 22:24:04 | <yushyin> | a haskell course again? i expect a flood of questions on how to install 'haskell' with ghcup on macos again |
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| 22:26:05 | <yushyin> | maerwald: brace yourself :D |
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| 22:27:21 | <glguy> | oats: I'll look into updating hookup |
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| 22:41:42 | <glguy> | I haven't done much with ghc-9.4 for the glirc repo because not all the deps support 9.4 yet |
| 22:42:13 | <glguy> | but the bound is now updated on hackage |
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| 23:45:21 | <DigitalKiwi> | just tell them to use nix and delegate the problem to someone else |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-09-16.