Logs on 2022-09-23 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:10:05 | <EvanR> | @src mapAccumL |
| 00:10:05 | <lambdabot> | mapAccumL _ s [] = (s, []) |
| 00:10:05 | <lambdabot> | mapAccumL f s (x:xs) = (s'',y:ys) |
| 00:10:05 | <lambdabot> | where (s', y ) = f s x |
| 00:10:05 | <lambdabot> | (s'',ys) = mapAccumL f s' xs |
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| 00:10:54 | <EvanR> | updateframes... damn |
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| 00:21:18 | <haskeller> | anyone know how to get ^ and $ to work with regex-tdfa ? |
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| 00:25:06 | <sm> | they work for me ? maybe you're looking for https://hackage.haskell.org/package/regex-tdfa-1.3.2/docs/Text-Regex-TDFA.html#t:CompOption multiline ? |
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| 00:27:00 | <haskeller> | i did see it but i'm not sure how to use it |
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| 01:02:08 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | how are type synonyms with type variables parsed? |
| 01:02:26 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | I am writing a compiler and the unficiation algorithm that I wrote works with meta type variables |
| 01:02:46 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | should I be generating meta type variables from type variables? |
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| 01:07:46 | <haskeller> | https://paste.lurkmore.com/205d6a |
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| 01:11:33 | <haskeller> | why does it match ? |
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| 01:16:11 | <pavonia> | That function is not documented, but I guess it tries to find any match in the string |
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| 01:19:02 | <Axman6> | yeah that's the usual behaviour of regular expressions, the match if there's a match anywhere in the string |
| 01:19:05 | <haskeller> | ^ab*$ is what i'm trying to achieve |
| 01:19:36 | <Axman6> | and that regex actually matches the the "a" and doesn't even need to check the b's, technically |
| 01:19:54 | <Axman6> | are you sure you don't want "^ab+$"? |
| 01:22:22 | <haskeller> | it matches as well |
| 01:22:36 | <haskeller> | i want it to be False |
| 01:24:05 | <Axman6> | if you're using ^ and $, don't you want multiline to be true? |
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| 01:24:39 | <Clint> | what do you think /ab*/ will match? |
| 01:25:39 | <haskeller> | try ab* and ^ab*$ on aab https://regex101.com/ |
| 01:26:35 | <Clint> | okay, now what |
| 01:27:24 | <haskeller> | why does the code return True everytime |
| 01:27:43 | <Clint> | because you're asking if it matches and it does |
| 01:27:45 | <haskeller> | regardless of the multiline setting |
| 01:28:10 | <Axman6> | what is "it", ab* or ^ab*$? |
| 01:28:21 | <monochrom> | Since "aab" is barely one line, I don't think multiline settings matter. |
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| 01:28:47 | <Axman6> | it might be needed for ^ and $ to work, but I can't remember |
| 01:30:11 | <haskeller> | how can i get something ^ and $ to work with tdfa |
| 01:31:41 | <haskeller> | can someone write a snippet that matches a regex within ^ and $ |
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| 01:34:02 | <EvanR> | is it that the task is to match a string that literally begins with ^ and ends with $ all along |
| 01:34:13 | <EvanR> | that would be devious |
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| 01:35:13 | <haskeller> | no |
| 01:35:49 | <haskeller> | bash equivalent would be |
| 01:36:26 | <haskeller> | grep ab* <<<"aab" |
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| 01:36:36 | <haskeller> | grep ^ab*$ <<<"aab" |
| 01:36:38 | <Axman6> | that should match though |
| 01:36:47 | <Axman6> | ok, that shouldn't |
| 01:36:50 | <haskeller> | latter shouldn't |
| 01:37:09 | <haskeller> | how do i do that with tdfa |
| 01:37:34 | <Axman6> | you can debug what's going on by actually inspecting the matches |
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| 01:38:23 | <Clint> | or by actually using the regex you want |
| 01:38:38 | <Axman6> | where does `match` come from? I can't see it in the TDFA package |
| 01:39:14 | <Axman6> | ah, Text.Regex.BAse |
| 01:39:16 | <haskeller> | RegexContext(match) |
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| 01:40:34 | <haskeller> | im sleepy |
| 01:40:43 | <Axman6> | what does main = print (match (regex "ab*") "aab" :: [MatchArray]) print? |
| 01:42:15 | <haskeller> | [array (0,0) [(0,(1,2))]] |
| 01:43:31 | <monochrom> | So ab* matches the first 'a' |
| 01:44:08 | <monochrom> | Are you saying that you have tried ^ab*$ and it doesn't do what we expect? |
| 01:44:24 | <Axman6> | what does main = print (match (regex "ab*") "aab" :: [MatchText String]) and main = print (match (regex "^ab*$") "aab" :: [MatchText String]) print? |
| 01:44:49 | <haskeller> | shit |
| 01:44:50 | <Axman6> | since that should actually include the matching text too |
| 01:45:21 | <Axman6> | did you forget to recompile? :) |
| 01:45:22 | <haskeller> | i forgot to put the ^ $ |
| 01:45:27 | <Axman6> | ... |
| 01:45:39 | <haskeller> | sorry lads |
| 01:45:47 | <haskeller> | im sleepy |
| 01:45:49 | <Axman6> | We've all been there |
| 01:45:51 | <haskeller> | gn |
| 01:45:57 | <Axman6> | congrats |
| 01:46:03 | <haskeller> | and thank you |
| 01:46:26 | <monochrom> | This is why I don't trust querents. |
| 01:46:43 | ← | haskeller parts (~haskeller@103.86.106.250) () |
| 01:46:53 | <Clint> | to be fair, there was 0 evidence that he had tried what he actually wanted |
| 01:47:25 | <Axman6> | "11:28 Axman6: what is "it", ab* or ^ab*$? " - no answer |
| 01:48:16 | <monochrom> | That too. All pronouns should be banned. |
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| 01:51:38 | <Axman6> | I'm doing a uni course on C at the moment, and when talking about abstraction, they asked us to give an example of abstraction in every day lives - I used the word "it", and referred to it repeatedly, it got pretty confusing |
| 01:53:01 | <EvanR> | at least it isn't a verb yet |
| 01:55:36 | <monochrom> | FILE is an abstraction. It is so abstract that stdio.h has simply "struct _IO_FILE; typedef struct _IO_FILE FILE;". Since you may only use FILE* anyway, you need not be told what's inside the struct. |
| 01:55:39 | <Axman6> | I'll 'it you, mate |
| 01:56:36 | <monochrom> | I don't think that "it" is an abstraction. It is an identifier wannabe, before math and programming invented real identifiers. |
| 01:56:39 | <EvanR> | I stand corrected |
| 01:57:05 | <monochrom> | However, "this app sucks" is an abstraction. |
| 01:58:18 | <monochrom> | Oh wait, I'm wrong about _IO_FILE, I see that there is a complete definition later, I missed it last time I checked. |
| 01:58:33 | <monochrom> | So now I know that I told a lie to my students haha. |
| 01:58:56 | sm | imagines a structured support chat where the certain questions can be blockers, requiring a satisfactory answer to proceed further |
| 01:59:13 | <EvanR> | an example of abstract in everyday life, just to get away from C for a second, Nope your life is indeed C |
| 01:59:37 | <monochrom> | How about: Python is an abstraction. :) |
| 02:00:06 | <sm> | unpleasant in normal human conversation, but possibly more efficient .. and very familiar from text adventures |
| 02:00:24 | <EvanR> | give an example of a monad from everyday life. It's either a hard question or your life is haskell |
| 02:01:19 | <EvanR> | and no jquery does not count |
| 02:01:20 | <monochrom> | I was learning 3 monads from a draft probability theory book. http://www.cs.ru.nl/B.Jacobs/PAPERS/ProbabilisticReasoning.pdf |
| 02:01:29 | <sm> | me! I know! cooking 🍳 |
| 02:01:43 | <monochrom> | The 3 monads are: the list monad, the powerset monad, and the multiset monad. |
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| 02:02:01 | <EvanR> | cool monads bro |
| 02:02:29 | <EvanR> | do you even lift |
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| 02:04:03 | <monochrom> | Everyday life, hell everyday speech, has many modal operators, some of them are monads. |
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| 02:04:33 | <maerwald[m]> | No, I use complicated effects systems, because they blur control flow better and allow reasoning if you have two brains |
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| 02:08:03 | <monochrom> | sm: Structured support chat with mentor-mandated blocker questions can only happen when there is a monopolizing mentor, e.g., when I am holding office hours for students, I do that all the time. |
| 02:08:55 | <monochrom> | The economy of internet help is flipped. The querent has monopoly over brownie points, and multiple mentors want those brownie points desperately. |
| 02:09:15 | <monochrom> | Therefore all mentors kiss up to the querent, as opposed to doing the right thing. |
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| 02:11:49 | <monochrom> | For example next time when there is a "my code doesn't work, here is a blatantly incomplete excerpt", watch how many people rush to make blind guesses, how many do the right thing and press for "show the complete actual code". |
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| 02:12:56 | <monochrom> | Right? Because the former has some chances of landing the right guess by dumb luck and win a "thank you you are so helpful" brownie point, whereas the latest always begets the opposite "you are unhelpful because you make me do extra work". |
| 02:14:22 | <EvanR> | 500 pages of probability... not bad |
| 02:14:44 | <monochrom> | On that note I don't care for "pleasant conversation" either if it means mutual congratulations rather than getting problems solved properly. |
| 02:16:53 | <sm> | monochrom: right, the dynamics are interesting. Here, I would say conditions are variable, depending on time of day, nature of question, current states of mind etc. |
| 02:18:08 | <sm> | people have different needs and motivations and styles and we are all coexisting in one cramped noisy kitchen :) |
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| 02:21:36 | <Clinton[m]> | Is `Blah` below something that has an actual name and defined in a library somewhere?... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/b90c6fc92b313aa22003e15d2b513087d7974245>) |
| 02:22:46 | <sm> | I'm gonna say no |
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| 02:22:58 | <Clinton[m]> | it kinda looks like an existential but https://hackage.haskell.org/package/exists-0.2/docs/src/Data-Exists-Internal.html#Exists seems too general. I don't need a constraint here (although I guess in theory I could represent `f` as a constraint). |
| 02:23:50 | <EvanR> | it looks like a off the cuff example of a GADT with a polymorphic kind in a sig |
| 02:24:02 | <EvanR> | syntax example |
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| 02:27:48 | <monochrom> | It is close to CoYoneda. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/for-free-0.1/docs/Control-ForFree.html#g:3 |
| 02:28:24 | <monochrom> | But it has an extra a->x (their z is your a), and it presumes a :: * |
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| 04:41:29 | <Guest66> | Is there a way to filter Either Left or Right from a list? |
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| 04:44:09 | <jao> | [r | Right r <- xs] |
| 04:46:01 | <jao> | > [ r | Right r <- [Right 3, Left "a", Right 4]] :: [Int] |
| 04:46:03 | <lambdabot> | [3,4] |
| 04:47:02 | <Lears> | @hoogle [Either a b] -> ([a], [b]) |
| 04:47:04 | <lambdabot> | Data.Either partitionEithers :: [Either a b] -> ([a], [b]) |
| 04:47:04 | <lambdabot> | Data.List.HT unzipEithers :: [Either a b] -> ([a], [b]) |
| 04:47:04 | <lambdabot> | Data.Strict.Either partitionEithers :: [Either a b] -> ([a], [b]) |
| 04:47:25 | <Lears> | Guest66: This ^ is better if you want both parts. |
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| 04:48:34 | <Guest66> | jao's list comprehension is what I was looking for, didn't know you could filter it there, thanks |
| 04:50:48 | <Guest66> | or I guess that's pattern matching |
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| 05:02:16 | <dsal> | @hoogle [Either a b] -> [a] |
| 05:02:17 | <lambdabot> | Data.Either lefts :: [Either a b] -> [a] |
| 05:02:17 | <lambdabot> | Data.Strict.Either lefts :: [Either a b] -> [a] |
| 05:02:17 | <lambdabot> | Protolude lefts :: () => [Either a b] -> [a] |
| 05:02:27 | <dsal> | @hoogle [Either a b] -> [b] |
| 05:02:28 | <lambdabot> | Data.Either rights :: [Either a b] -> [b] |
| 05:02:28 | <lambdabot> | Data.Strict.Either rights :: [Either a b] -> [b] |
| 05:02:28 | <lambdabot> | Protolude rights :: () => [Either a b] -> [b] |
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| 05:03:14 | <dsal> | Guest66: No need for a list comprehension when the stdlib already has a named function for the thing you want. |
| 05:03:47 | <dsal> | Ironically, it's implemented that way, but with this: {-# INLINEABLE rights #-} -- otherwise doesn't get an unfolding, see #13689 |
| 05:08:34 | <Guest66> | ah ok, you're right, using the function works too |
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| 06:45:04 | <dminuoso> | dsal: Though for what its worth, the list comprehension is really useful for arbitrary sum types here. |
| 06:45:19 | <dsal> | Sure, it's good to know. |
| 06:46:01 | <dminuoso> | Especially since you can use it as a poor mans prism/affine foldable |
| 06:46:06 | <dminuoso> | Since it works nicely for nested things too |
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| 08:49:08 | <Guest503> | What's a good way to share state between an arbitrary number of threads? |
| 08:49:08 | <Guest503> | My use case: I'm trying to implement a . I need multithreading to fetch URLS concurrently and state to |
| 08:49:35 | <Guest503> | Sorry, accidentally hit enter while typing |
| 08:50:12 | <Athas> | Guest503: the best way is to not do that. A starting point for doing that is to use an MVar. |
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| 08:50:29 | <Athas> | An MVar is a properly synchronised concurrent mutable variable. |
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| 08:51:27 | <Athas> | I assume you already know the risks of contention and such. MVars can help avoid race conditions, but shared mutable state is always risky. You should read up on the potential problems if you're not already aware of them. |
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| 08:51:56 | <trcc> | I am looking a optparse-applicative and I have added a --version argument. I am using https://hackage.haskell.org/package/optparse-applicative-0.17.0.0/docs/Options-Applicative.html#v:infoOption but why does it have to fail? Is there an alternative? |
| 08:52:41 | <Guest503> | Basically I need a map from previously-accessed URLs to their XML content. I was thinking of 2 ways to do it: |
| 08:52:41 | <Guest503> | 1. Using an MVar with an immutable map |
| 08:52:42 | <Guest503> | 2. Using some sort of thread-safe mutable hashmap (I know mutable hashmaps exist for haskell but don't know if they're thread-safe) |
| 08:52:42 | <Guest503> | I'm guessing you'd favor #1 |
| 08:53:11 | <Athas> | Yes, I'd go with an MVar with an immutable map inside. Change it later if it turns out to be a bottle neck. |
| 08:53:19 | <Athas> | But the starting point should never be a complex concurrent data structure! |
| 08:53:38 | <Guest503> | Ok, thanks |
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| 08:57:29 | <trcc> | Rephrasion. Is there a reason why Optparse-applicative encodes presenting a message as a parserfailure? More specifially, infoOption https://hackage.haskell.org/package/optparse-applicative-0.17.0.0/docs/Options-Applicative.html#v:infoOption |
| 08:57:36 | <trcc> | haha rephrasion. Rephrasing :) |
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| 13:59:10 | <matthewm_> | hi |
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| 14:11:59 | <[exa]> | matthewm_: hello! |
| 14:15:25 | <ski> | Clinton[m] : that `Exists c' expresses `exists a. c a *> a' (bundling a single value of abstract type with a provided constraint over that type) (cf. Rust traits, Java interfaces). what you're asking for is `exists a. f a' (abstracting only part of the type of a larger "collection" type). neither is more general. least common generalization would be `exists a. c a *> f a' |
| 14:15:30 | <ski> | @hackage some |
| 14:15:30 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/some |
| 14:15:47 | <ski> | Clinton[m] : seems that ^ has what you were asking for |
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| 14:23:32 | <ski> | (the `Data.Some.GADT' variant is your `Blah'. `Data.Some'/`Data.SomeNewtype' is a `newtype' version that avoids the data constructor wrapping (possible since there's no constraints, but GHC still doesn't allow this with `ExistentialQuantification'/`GADTs', so they do a hack to get around that). `Data.Some.Church' is the CPS representation (`newtype', value wrapped inside generator accepting |
| 14:23:39 | <ski> | consumer/continuation)) |
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| 18:24:31 | <seydar> | how do you parallelize `reduce`? I acknowledge it can be done, but... how? |
| 18:24:44 | <seydar> | parallelizing recursive functions seems... not doable? |
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| 18:26:14 | <Rembane> | You can split the input into some chunks and run every chunk in parallell and then run reduce on the results |
| 18:27:08 | <c_wraith> | you can't parallelize and arbitrary foldr |
| 18:27:11 | <c_wraith> | *an |
| 18:27:21 | <c_wraith> | There needs to be some additional structure |
| 18:27:30 | <seydar> | c_wraith: okay, *that* makes sense |
| 18:27:44 | <seydar> | Rembane: brilliant! hadn't thought of that |
| 18:27:51 | <c_wraith> | a common bit of additional structure is making the operation monoidal |
| 18:27:59 | <c_wraith> | then you know you can chunk up the work |
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| 18:33:00 | <Rembane> | seydar: It's quite nifty. What c_wraith says is super important though, otherwise you'll just get something more complex that doesn't work. Another interesting aspect is that the splitting and merging can eat up all the performance gains. |
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| 18:34:51 | <c_wraith> | also, pay attention to data structures. splitting a list is a lot more work than splitting a balanced tree, and even that is a lot less flexible than splitting an array |
| 18:35:24 | <EvanR> | literally reducing, i mean foldling, a list seems, very sequential |
| 18:35:51 | <EvanR> | so something about this game has to be changed to make it parallel |
| 18:37:02 | <geekosaur> | that was what c_wraith was saying, I think |
| 18:37:20 | <geekosaur> | re "some additional structure" |
| 18:37:49 | <EvanR> | taking away the list structure is a start xD which is what all these conal videos are about |
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| 18:38:26 | <EvanR> | or keep the list and it's not actually foldl |
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| 18:39:12 | <EvanR> | or what is reduce anyway |
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| 18:47:02 | <seydar> | associativity! that's the word |
| 18:47:18 | <seydar> | monads are associative. if we want to split up reduce, the underlying structure has to be associative |
| 18:48:59 | <geekosaur> | who said it had to be a monad? as c_wraith noted, you only need monoidal. if course, if what you're reducing is monadic, then you're right |
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| 18:49:29 | <geekosaur> | (and you're using it. lists are monads,m but if you're not using the monad part again you only need the monoid part) |
| 18:50:46 | <geekosaur> | (assuming the operation is monoidal) |
| 18:51:23 | <seydar> | What do we mean when we say monoidal? What do we lose between monoidal and monad? |
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| 18:52:10 | <geekosaur> | monoidal just means there's a "zero" and a combining operation of some kind; it's very simple |
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| 18:54:05 | <geekosaur> | (well, there are a few other constraints, such as the same zero works on the left and the right, but that's pretty much given in Haskell) |
| 18:54:56 | <EvanR> | a monad is actually a kind of monoid |
| 18:55:11 | <EvanR> | I'll just leave it at that lol |
| 18:55:24 | <geekosaur> | anyway if the operation is monoidal then you can arbitrarily split and recombine the data it operates on and get the same reault, guaranteed |
| 18:55:25 | <seydar> | monoidal is also guaranteed to be associative i assume, right? |
| 18:55:28 | <geekosaur> | *result |
| 18:55:31 | <seydar> | kk |
| 18:56:05 | <geekosaur> | should be associative and commutative as a result, I think |
| 18:56:22 | <geekosaur> | at least in Haskell |
| 18:56:31 | <c_wraith> | Not commutative |
| 18:56:39 | <EvanR> | matrix multiplication |
| 18:56:39 | <c_wraith> | > "a" <> "b" |
| 18:56:41 | <lambdabot> | "ab" |
| 18:56:47 | <geekosaur> | mm, right |
| 18:56:52 | <geekosaur> | sorry |
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| 18:57:23 | <c_wraith> | But yeah, associative. Which is all you need in order to be able to break it up and recombine it, so long as you preserve the element order |
| 18:57:25 | <geekosaur> | so do we have an additional requirement here? either it's commutative or the final order is irrelevant |
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| 18:57:38 | <geekosaur> | which may be the same thing for at least some monoids (e.g. Sum) |
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| 18:58:03 | <geekosaur> | but not all, depends on whether you care if "ab" and "ba" are different or not |
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| 19:05:39 | <EvanR> | multiset monoid |
| 19:09:16 | <dolio> | You can parallelize with just associative, but I imagine it's much tricker to arrange for distributed scenarios. |
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| 19:11:01 | <dolio> | Commutativity makes it much easier. |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-09-23.