Logs on 2022-09-26 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:13:30 | <EvanR> | 4 bits of color and the intensity knob on your electron beam. Output an instruction to the user to turn the knob up |
| 00:13:31 | <sm> | i'm asking in #haskell-game:matrix.org .. maybe it requires vty |
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| 00:14:38 | <zzz> | oh great. thanks. didn't know about #haskell-game |
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| 00:15:46 | <zzz> | EvanR: eew side-effects |
| 00:20:19 | <EvanR> | it's pure as long as I can't observe any of it, which I can't |
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| 00:22:12 | <zzz> | #lifephilosophy |
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| 00:34:59 | <EvanR> | I'm implementing the time system call from the B manual, which returns the system time "in 60ths of a second" in a 2 word array. And the words here were 16 bits according to this manual. |
| 00:35:32 | <EvanR> | I noticed that the time has overflowed since then, and started wondering what sort of numbers they would be dealing with |
| 00:35:52 | <EvanR> | document is from 1972, two years after unix epoch |
| 00:36:10 | <EvanR> | they were almost in danger of having time underflow |
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| 00:40:09 | <EvanR> | oh, even worse > The first edition Unix Programmer's Manual dated 3 November 1971 defines the Unix time as "the time since 00:00:00, 1 January 1971, measured in sixtieths of a second". |
| 00:42:19 | <EvanR> | i see they eventually changed their mind and threw out the 60, buying themselves 68 years |
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| 02:18:00 | <ski> | EvanR : a "60th of a second" is sometimes called a "jiffy" or "terz" (third sexagesimal division of hour/degree, after minute and second) |
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| 02:18:05 | <ski> | edrx : nice |
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| 02:18:22 | <EvanR> | I see |
| 02:18:34 | <EvanR> | what about 3600th of a second |
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| 02:23:38 | <ski> | EvanR : hm, .. maybe "quart" |
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| 02:27:28 | <ski> | ("primus","secundus","tertius","quartus,"quintus","sextus","septimus","octavus","nonus","decimus",..) |
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| 02:27:45 | ski | . o O ( Quintus Prolog,SICStus Prolog ) |
| 02:34:32 | <ski> | (C64 counts time in terzes, you could also get it in hours,minutes,seconds (and compute terzes remainder if you wanted to). it resets after a nychthemeron) |
| 02:35:05 | <EvanR> | a nychthemeron? |
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| 02:37:06 | <ski> | a full rotation of the earth (or another planet, depending on context). `24' hours. a "night and day" |
| 02:37:24 | <EvanR> | how does c64 know what planet it's on |
| 02:37:30 | <ski> | (i've been using that word ever since i found it) |
| 02:37:57 | <ski> | well, it's hardcoded for `24' hours, on earth. i just explained the general meaning of the word |
| 02:38:06 | <EvanR> | i see |
| 02:39:27 | <EvanR> | here is my terrible awful no good very bad code https://github.com/evanrinehart/borax |
| 02:40:02 | <ski> | (there exists a short word for that in ivrit, russian, several scandinavian languages. unfortunately "nychtemeron" in english is not that short (nor the corresponding word (with same root, being from greek) in french), but it's better than nothing) |
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| 02:40:58 | <ski> | hm .. i think some early parts of the Amiga OS was written in BCPL |
| 02:41:26 | <EvanR> | you might like lib/libb.b xD |
| 02:41:30 | <ski> | (seem to recall seeing that, in a book that (amongst other things) contains listings of various header files, and also some source files) |
| 02:41:44 | <EvanR> | how is amiga that old |
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| 02:42:59 | <ski> | "By late 1984, the prototype breadboard chipset had successfully been turned into integrated circuits, and the system hardware was being readied for production. At this time the operating system (OS) was not as ready, and led to a deal to port an OS known as TRIPOS to the platform. TRIPOS was a multitasking system that had been written in BCPL during the 1970s for the PDP-11 minicomputer, but later |
| 02:43:05 | <ski> | experimentally ported to the 68000. This early version was known as AmigaDOS and the GUI as Workbench. The BCPL parts were later rewritten in the C language, and the entire system became AmigaOS." |
| 02:43:18 | <ski> | -- <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga#Commodore_launch> |
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| 02:45:32 | <ski> | you wrote `libb.b' ? |
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| 02:49:54 | <EvanR> | I copied printf and printn from the old manual floating around |
| 02:50:07 | <EvanR> | it works! |
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| 02:52:18 | <EvanR> | and most of the comments are also copied |
| 02:52:29 | <EvanR> | wrote the rest of the actual code |
| 02:52:42 | <ski> | mhm, nice |
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| 02:56:20 | <zzz> | ski: "diurno" in esperanto :) that's cool |
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| 02:57:12 | <ski> | Borax is a machine/platform ? |
| 02:58:08 | <ski> | or implementation of B in B ? |
| 02:58:23 | <ski> | it says "Note: borax is using 5 characters per word so date is at least a 4-word vector." |
| 02:58:40 | <EvanR> | currently, it just runs a program by interpretation, if you give it all the files it will run |
| 02:58:58 | <EvanR> | doesn't produce object files |
| 02:59:59 | <EvanR> | the runtime environment is the part that's a bit strange. B sites had 16, 32, and 36 bit word versions afaict |
| 03:00:13 | <EvanR> | i could have said words are 64bit, with 8 chars per word |
| 03:00:17 | <ski> | still not sure what Borax is, exactly |
| 03:00:25 | <EvanR> | the name of the repo, and the binary |
| 03:00:38 | <EvanR> | and the type name for the final runnable |
| 03:00:45 | <ski> | and what is the purpose of the project ? what is it that it does ? |
| 03:01:10 | <EvanR> | borax main.b libb.b and it will run that example, that's basically it |
| 03:01:25 | <EvanR> | maybe more in the future |
| 03:01:35 | <ski> | so it's an interpreter for B ? |
| 03:01:42 | <EvanR> | yeah, it used to just be a parser |
| 03:02:02 | <ski> | not an emulator for a machine, used with programs written in B, or somesuch, then ? |
| 03:02:27 | <EvanR> | well, if the program was written for a 16bit minicomputer, and some more of the library were fleshed out, it might actually run |
| 03:02:42 | <EvanR> | like, if you implemented the unix support |
| 03:02:46 | <ski> | ii take that to mean affirmative |
| 03:03:04 | <EvanR> | I don't expect to find any actual B code anywhere |
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| 03:04:42 | <ski> | perhaps you could find TriPOS source somewhere |
| 03:05:25 | <EvanR> | hmm... might be interesting but, BCPL is a whole nothing language right |
| 03:05:32 | <EvanR> | a whole nother! |
| 03:05:51 | <ski> | hm, right |
| 03:06:04 | ski | 's half asleep |
| 03:14:27 | <janus> | is there a library for scheduling N coroutines sharing a single resource? ideally portable to using different concurrency primitives |
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| 03:38:49 | <Axman6> | janus: like a resource pool? |
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| 04:03:34 | <Guest3316> | hi, i was wondering how to define a quickcheck generator for sequences of operations on, say, a set. i want the sequences to satisfy some constraints, e.g. only contain Add operations for new elements, and Remove operations only for existing elements. what's the best way to do this? |
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| 04:39:36 | <Axman6> | Guest3316: IIRC Arbitrary doesn't have any notion of state, so it may not be the right tool for the job. I think theyre may be better options using hedgehog - jackdk any input on that? |
| 04:40:10 | <jackdk> | quickcheck also supports state machine property testing but I haven't used it |
| 04:40:27 | <jackdk> | I'm sure it's well-developed enough to support operation constraints as Guest3316 describes thouhg |
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| 04:45:04 | <jackdk> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/quickcheck-state-machine seems to be the thing. I just happen to use and like hedgehog |
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| 07:32:24 | <dminuoso> | I have decided that S/M/IM.insert is an inadequate interface to containers, and alterF is better suited. :) |
| 07:32:41 | <dminuoso> | It's somewhat beyond me how the API somehow implies that overwriting existing keys is a sensible default. |
| 07:33:39 | <dminuoso> | Even insertWith does not fully address it, in my experience erroring out is used more often important than somehow combining (or picking) |
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| 07:34:13 | <dminuoso> | Even something like fromList seems inadequate in this way |
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| 07:34:46 | <dminuoso> | But at least we do get alterF, its a really cool and powerful interface that I wish sometimes other languages would offer by default. |
| 07:41:50 | <c_wraith> | there aren't many languages capable of expressing alterF... |
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| 07:47:39 | <dminuoso> | To some degree they do. |
| 07:48:03 | <dminuoso> | If we assume some IO monomorphized variant, its relatively trivial in most popular languages todayu |
| 07:48:39 | <c_wraith> | Oh. if you assume only the least useful version, sure. |
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| 07:49:16 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, I do happen to be in IO quite frequently anyway. |
| 07:49:35 | <c_wraith> | I tend to find ((,) a) to be way more useful than IO |
| 07:49:37 | <dminuoso> | Just rewriting this pure code right now to live in IO to make state + exceptions way easier. :) |
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| 07:49:50 | <c_wraith> | I just want to return an extra value! |
| 07:50:09 | <dminuoso> | Ah in the sense of C-style return codes? |
| 07:50:38 | <dminuoso> | Presumably a `(,) (Maybe Error)` kind of thing? |
| 07:50:57 | <c_wraith> | Not really. Just the sense of I want to compute something else depending on the old state of the structure while updating it in a single pass |
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| 07:51:37 | <dminuoso> | Ah fair enough, in my problem domain I just want to set errors one way or another. Most of the time its either an IO exception or mutating some `IORef [Error]` |
| 07:52:39 | <c_wraith> | But the fun part of just being a Functor constraint is you can compose together any number of effects you want |
| 07:53:03 | <dminuoso> | Yeah, effect composition is something I have developed a distate for over the past 2 years. |
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| 07:53:39 | <c_wraith> | Oh, I don't mean like effect libraries. I've never seen one of those worth its weight |
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| 07:53:51 | <dminuoso> | What kind of effect composition are you referring to then? |
| 07:54:07 | <c_wraith> | just Data.Functor.Compose |
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| 07:59:14 | <kuribas> | IMO monad transformers are fine if you put them in a newtype. |
| 07:59:29 | <kuribas> | They are just some glue that you don't need to write yourself. |
| 07:59:50 | <kuribas> | I don't see them as big architectural designs though. |
| 07:59:57 | <dminuoso> | If its just ReaderT or things isomorphic to it, sure. |
| 08:00:18 | <kuribas> | also ExceptT |
| 08:00:26 | <kuribas> | and StateT |
| 08:00:29 | <dminuoso> | But anything else forbids use of MonadUnliftIO and will in edge cases almost assuredly misbehave when state + exceptions collide. |
| 08:00:49 | <kuribas> | I used them in pure computations. |
| 08:01:00 | <dminuoso> | If its just state, you can also use ST |
| 08:01:13 | <dminuoso> | And potentially ExceptT over ST |
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| 08:01:40 | <kuribas> | sure, if you need the performance gain. |
| 08:01:47 | <dminuoso> | Well its not necessarily about performance |
| 08:02:05 | <kuribas> | I would ST with mutable vectors, arrays, etc... |
| 08:02:09 | <dminuoso> | My main beef with ExceptT/StateT is that you get in bizarre edge cases with bracket* that you cannot solve |
| 08:02:19 | <dminuoso> | Assuming its over IO of course |
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| 08:16:34 | <kuribas> | yeah, you need to pick exceptions or ExceptT |
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| 08:17:02 | <kuribas> | Or you have to be happy that Exceptions throwaway state and Except. |
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| 08:23:53 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: The issue is a bit more subtle than just throwing away state. |
| 08:24:32 | <dminuoso> | The common example frequently named is `bracket_ (put 'a') (put 'b') (put 'c')` |
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| 08:24:59 | <dminuoso> | There is no good answer at what this should do |
| 08:25:21 | <dminuoso> | In a world with StateT and MonadBaseControl that is. |
| 08:25:49 | <c_wraith> | sure, but that's obvious just from the types. |
| 08:25:59 | <c_wraith> | If you don't want what the types do, don't use those types |
| 08:26:10 | <kuribas> | you should not use "bracket" with a transformer. |
| 08:26:27 | <dminuoso> | That seems like a very silly suggestion, kuribas. |
| 08:26:33 | <kuribas> | MonadBaseControl is pure evil. |
| 08:26:34 | <dminuoso> | I like code being thread safe. |
| 08:26:54 | <dminuoso> | Async exceptions are a *constant* threat. |
| 08:27:16 | <dminuoso> | Not using bracket is for a lot of people not an option. |
| 08:27:21 | <kuribas> | that's why you want to avoid StateT in your application monad. |
| 08:27:39 | <dminuoso> | c_wraith: Im not convinced this is so obvious from the types. |
| 08:27:47 | <dminuoso> | It's honestly quite subtle |
| 08:27:49 | <kuribas> | I didn't say not to use it. |
| 08:30:20 | <kuribas> | just not with a transformer |
| 08:31:22 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: Its a difficult proposition to just not use StateT when you want to bracket. I frequently need to carry state around a use of bracket. |
| 08:31:40 | <dminuoso> | Yet another thing is, I commonly have IO anyway - which already buys me side effects and exceptions. :) |
| 08:31:45 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: then use an IORef? |
| 08:31:57 | <dminuoso> | Yeah that's what I do, I just keep environments of IORefs around |
| 08:32:12 | <dminuoso> | Which is why I get MonadUnliftIO, which buys me bracket without headaches |
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| 08:33:57 | <kuribas> | MonadUnliftIO doesn't provide much, except duplication almost every IO function |
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| 08:34:58 | <kuribas> | perhaps having just `Env -> IO a` is even better for an application "monad". |
| 08:35:27 | <dminuoso> | MonadUnliftIO just gives you an interface of using things with IO in negative position |
| 08:35:32 | <dminuoso> | like bracket |
| 08:35:40 | <dminuoso> | But in a way aligned with common expectations |
| 08:36:35 | <dminuoso> | Well it does slightly more, it does provide a slightly altered Control.Exception |
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| 08:36:52 | <dminuoso> | (you can think of it as safe-exceptions being included) |
| 08:37:30 | <dminuoso> | These wrappers are handy, you would end up writing them yourself anyway, or using withRunInIO a lot. |
| 08:37:40 | <dminuoso> | But that latter is a slightly awkward interface |
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| 08:41:39 | <kuribas> | or just use Env -> IO a? |
| 08:42:33 | <dminuoso> | kuribas: Sure. Mostly I like the convenience of MonadLogger/LoggingT |
| 08:43:32 | <kuribas> | you can make your own MonadLogger instance |
| 08:43:36 | <dminuoso> | So I tend to have something like `newtype AppM a = AppM { runAppM :: (ReaderT Env (LoggingT IO) a } deriving MonadIO; deriving MonadUnliftIO` |
| 08:43:52 | <dminuoso> | Sure, but an explicit instance does require a custom newtype |
| 08:44:30 | <dminuoso> | And you have to do what MonadUnliftIO does manually anyway |
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| 10:14:39 | Guest99 | is now known as gallo__ |
| 10:15:09 | gallo__ | is now known as Guest8248 |
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| 10:16:53 | ski | . o O ( "Interface-passing style" by Fare in 2010-02-17 at <https://fare.livejournal.com/155094.html> ) |
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| 10:17:00 | <ski> | "there aren't many languages capable of expressing alterF..." ^ |
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| 10:21:33 | <Profpatsch> | Dose enabling {-# LANGUAGE QuasiQuotes #-} lead to more things being recompiled than strictly necessary? |
| 10:21:37 | <Profpatsch> | Or just with TemplateHaskell? |
| 10:21:49 | <Profpatsch> | Thinking about enabling QuasiQuotes project-wide |
| 10:22:01 | <Profpatsch> | Since we use the PyF package quite extensively |
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| 11:38:05 | <troydm> | is there a haskell function that converts String hex characters into Int value? |
| 11:38:15 | <troydm> | like "FF" > 255 |
| 11:38:24 | <troydm> | or I should write one myself? |
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| 11:39:48 | <dminuoso> | troydm: For poor-mans parsing you can use Numeric.readHex |
| 11:40:17 | <dminuoso> | But if you do have a bit more parsing to do, you might want to explore one of the parser combinator libraries. |
| 11:41:56 | <troydm> | dminuoso: thx, I'm actually using megaparsec parsing hex values so was wondering how to convert them to integer |
| 11:42:16 | <dminuoso> | troydm: megaparsec comes with `hexadecimal` combinators. |
| 11:42:40 | <dminuoso> | Word of caution, they do not do bound checking. Using `hexadecimal` at `Parser Word8` will not behave nicely. :) |
| 11:43:09 | <dminuoso> | (I think they should really just give you `Parser Integer` as to be explicit and honest) |
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| 11:50:08 | <troydm> | dminuoso: yeah, will do it my own way |
| 11:51:06 | <dminuoso> | troydm: No you can use them just fine. |
| 11:51:51 | <dminuoso> | Just do something like `do r <- hexadecimal :: Parser Integer; when (r > (maxBound :: Word8)) (fail "thing too large"); ...` |
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| 11:59:36 | <geekosaur> | with a fromIntegral in there |
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| 12:01:51 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: No thats the point why its so terrible. |
| 12:01:55 | <dminuoso> | The fromIntegral is implicitly in there already. |
| 12:02:24 | <dminuoso> | hexadecimal :: forall e s m a . (MonadParsec e s m, Token s ~ Word8, Num a) => m a |
| 12:02:24 | <geekosaur> | r :: Integer is going to mismatch against maxBound :: Word8 |
| 12:02:29 | <dminuoso> | Oh. |
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| 12:02:38 | <dminuoso> | Yes sorry you are right. |
| 12:02:38 | <geekosaur> | por if it doesn't then it's too ;late to check the toio large |
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| 13:53:22 | <MangoIV[m]> | Hi, I'm having an issue with Cabal that I would need some guidance with, does anybody here maybe know about how the cabal resolving works/ how cabal build works? The concrete issue I'm having can be found here: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/8481 |
| 13:53:22 | <MangoIV[m]> | Thanks so much in advance! |
| 13:56:41 | <dminuoso> | MangoIV[m]: So the first mistake is thinking in terms of ghc-pkg here. |
| 13:57:05 | <dminuoso> | That's a step in the future for when packages are already installed |
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| 13:58:16 | <dminuoso> | So the way cabal works, is it considers all packages off the hackage index it has stored locally, as well as all vendored packages. |
| 13:58:32 | <dminuoso> | That last one is by default a glob `./*.cabal`, relative to where you invoke the command |
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| 13:58:45 | <dminuoso> | See `packages:` stanza in cabal.project file https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html |
| 13:59:56 | <MangoIV[m]> | > That's a step in the future for when packages are already installed |
| 13:59:56 | <MangoIV[m]> | So it does look at ghc-pkg if it has all packages installed? Because in my case I let nix build all the packages but cabal fails to find the sublibraries although it's provided as dependency. ghc-pkg recognizes it's there but marks it as hidden |
| 13:59:58 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:15: error: parse error on input ‘in’ |
| 14:00:03 | <dminuoso> | No |
| 14:00:17 | <dminuoso> | Or at least I dont think it does? |
| 14:00:42 | <dminuoso> | The relevant thing is, before anything cabal has to make a build plan |
| 14:01:39 | <MangoIV[m]> | > So the way cabal works, is it considers all packages off the hackage index it has stored locally, as well as all vendored packages. |
| 14:01:39 | <MangoIV[m]> | what is the files it looks at? Does this happen before the package db is populated? |
| 14:01:40 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:23: error: parse error on input ‘,’ |
| 14:02:07 | <ski> | (.. might want to avoid using that "reply" function) |
| 14:02:17 | <dminuoso> | MangoIV[m]: It will consult ~/.cabal/packages/hackage.haskell.org/01-index* files |
| 14:02:54 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: yeah, that's the issue I'm having, I think the build plan is made incorrectly. if I use the `cabal-plan` util (or what it's called), it also marks the relevant package as hidden. |
| 14:03:21 | <dminuoso> | No, its just not available to build plan |
| 14:03:27 | <dminuoso> | cabal will not consider what you have installed as far as I know |
| 14:03:45 | <dr_merijn> | dminuoso: Not in the v2-build world, no |
| 14:03:46 | <dminuoso> | It will just consider what is a) on its hackage index, and b) what you vendored via the `packages:` option in your cabal.project |
| 14:04:04 | <dminuoso> | dr_merijn: are there any other worlds? :) |
| 14:04:13 | <dr_merijn> | the v1-build stone ages :p |
| 14:04:14 | <dminuoso> | Besides, the reproducer implies they are using v2-style |
| 14:04:20 | <dr_merijn> | And the Setup.hs world :p |
| 14:04:27 | <dminuoso> | So this is a moot point |
| 14:04:31 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: I see, in my case that won't be in .cabal but I think that I can find the corresponding big in my env. |
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| 14:04:50 | <dminuoso> | MangoIV[m]: what *you* know is of little relevance to cabal-install. :) |
| 14:04:59 | <dminuoso> | It's all about what you *tell* it |
| 14:05:42 | <dminuoso> | Create a cabal.project file at the top level of the repository containing `packages: blup, bla`, then at the top-level you can use `cabal build bla` or `cabal build blup` and they will be able to find each other |
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| 14:07:49 | <MangoIV[m]> | dr_merijn: with Setup.hs this actually works. I use v2-build though, afaik, my cabal is recent enough for sublibs :3 |
| 14:08:07 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: this is just the reproducer, this won't be possible in my real world example. |
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| 14:09:16 | <MangoIV[m]> | <dminuoso> "It will just consider what is a)..." <- i think i will follow up on the hackage-index thing, thank you for the help |
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| 14:09:50 | <dminuoso> | MangoIV[m]: Why wouldnt it be possible? |
| 14:10:04 | <dminuoso> | You can always create a cabal.project file vendoring other packages. |
| 14:10:25 | <dr_merijn> | Or make a freeze file |
| 14:10:35 | <dminuoso> | In fact, if they are mixed together in a repository, going via hackage will create a lot of problems (such as being unable to test intertwined changes without uploading to hackage) |
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| 14:12:25 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: because the sublibs come from a dep that's build by nix |
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| 14:13:19 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, Im not sure working with some libraries being built by nix is even possible |
| 14:14:41 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: it sure is, there's just the issue that cabal doesn't find the public sublib of one of the dependencies. |
| 14:14:41 | <MangoIV[m]> | funnily enough when building it as a dependency for a package which is built with nix it will build just fine. |
| 14:14:52 | <dminuoso> | It is? How does that even work? |
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| 14:15:09 | <dminuoso> | Does nix produce .cabal files of what it does? |
| 14:15:21 | <MangoIV[m]> | https://github.com/input-output-hk/haskell.nix |
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| 14:15:29 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: the cabal file is local to the project |
| 14:15:40 | <dminuoso> | Okay that's haskell.nix not nix (which suggests nixpkgs.haskell things) |
| 14:15:42 | <MangoIV[m]> | s/project/package/ |
| 14:15:52 | <dminuoso> | But even with haskell.nix its surprising |
| 14:16:36 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: that "nix" name overloading issue again. I mean nix the expression language and nix the package manager. not nix the nixpkgs package base |
| 14:17:15 | <dminuoso> | The reason Im confused is because haskell.nix already does its own build-plan, what kind of artifacts does it produce to let cabal-install work with it? |
| 14:17:24 | <dminuoso> | Im not convinced this works at all |
| 14:17:41 | <MangoIV[m]> | it would work with nixpkgs, too, though. it's what the ghcWithPackages though. |
| 14:17:50 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: it produces a package-db that it makes available with an env var |
| 14:17:50 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: lol |
| 14:18:01 | <dminuoso> | Mmm |
| 14:18:28 | <dminuoso> | But that would only work with v1-style then |
| 14:18:35 | <dminuoso> | With v2-style I dont see how |
| 14:19:26 | <MangoIV[m]> | it *does* build with cabal build though and that's the default with cabal >=v3.4(?) |
| 14:19:41 | <dminuoso> | Deep black magic *shrugs* |
| 14:20:02 | <dminuoso> | How do you depend on that? |
| 14:20:30 | <dminuoso> | Oh wait.. I think Im beginning to understand what you mean. |
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| 14:20:39 | <dminuoso> | You and I are talking about very different things. |
| 14:21:04 | <dminuoso> | MangoIV[m]: You're talking about things like shellFor right? |
| 14:21:15 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: wdym? you just specify your dependencies in the cabal files as usual. and cabal will fail if you didn't include the dep in the nix shell (or haskell.nix will find them automatically from their nixified hackage) |
| 14:21:59 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: yea. shellFor works different than normal haskell.nix builds because it skips the build for the local packages and then you can build them with cabal instead of the usual Setup.hs |
| 14:22:33 | <MangoIV[m]> | And that's where it fails for public sublibs of a dependency |
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| 14:27:40 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: for reference, this is the error... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/3384f26063fa9fd6a1edb6659521b53cd411e8cb>) |
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| 14:27:58 | <dminuoso> | MangoIV[m]: yeah with haskell.nix I have no clue honestly |
| 14:28:12 | <dminuoso> | In a shelLFor your cabal is a wrapper script that uses a very tuned and customized config |
| 14:28:32 | <dminuoso> | So if that doesnt build, dunno, ask IOG :P |
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| 14:30:30 | <MangoIV[m]> | dminuoso: i did, they don't have a clue, either, that's why I'm trying to find out how cabal works, lol https://github.com/input-output-hk/haskell.nix/issues/1662 |
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| 14:41:56 | <MangoIV[m]> | Another question I have is how does the `package.conf.d` fit into this scheme? Is it relevant to `cabal build`? I see that the `CABAL_CONFIG` env var points there. |
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| 14:44:15 | <MangoIV[m]> | * Another question I have is how does the `package.conf.d` fit into this scheme? Is it relevant to `cabal build`? I see that the `CABAL_CONFIG` env var points to a `cabal.config` that points to a nix provided `package.conf.d`. The issue is that I don't see issues with it compared to the one generated by cabal when building locally. |
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| 14:50:42 | <janus> | Axman6: my issue with libraries like 'resource-pool' is that they are IO oriented. i am looking for something that allows me to swap concurrency primitives |
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| 16:41:50 | <dminuoso> | janus: Curious, what kind of types are you thinking of? |
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| 16:43:41 | <janus> | i am working with Coroutines that have two Susp constructors. so when a coroutine yields with the second constructor, i want it to query the shared resource. other routines that use the shared resource will have to wait until the shared resource continuation is done |
| 16:44:47 | <janus> | because this isn't tied to I/O, i was hoping i could test it in a pure value-based fashion |
| 16:45:51 | <dminuoso> | janus: You can also just unsafePerformIO resource-pool into purity. |
| 16:46:01 | <dminuoso> | It should be relatively safe |
| 16:46:42 | <janus> | i don't really mind writing my own scheduler though, it seems like an interesting problem. i just don't know the literature |
| 16:48:51 | <EvanR> | for the purposes of implementing coroutines that just work, a scheduler that just does round robin would be simple and in some sense fair |
| 16:49:10 | <EvanR> | it doesn't have to be able to become skynet |
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| 17:22:42 | <EvanR> | is there a blessed way to detect the usable range of Int on a given haskell implementation, I heard there are 32bit haskell systems somewhere xD |
| 17:24:19 | <EvanR> | The exact range for a given implementation can be determined by using minBound and maxBound from the Bounded class. |
| 17:24:22 | <EvanR> | k |
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| 18:25:47 | <seydar> | anyone at GNU radio conf? |
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| 19:33:23 | <zzz> | @type '\^[' |
| 19:33:24 | <lambdabot> | Char |
| 19:33:49 | <zzz> | is this an ASCII control character? |
| 19:33:59 | <monochrom> | Yes. |
| 19:34:10 | <monochrom> | > fromEnum '\^[' |
| 19:34:11 | <lambdabot> | 27 |
| 19:34:17 | <monochrom> | It is ESC. |
| 19:35:00 | <monochrom> | I think this works: |
| 19:35:08 | <monochrom> | > '\ESC' == '\^[' |
| 19:35:10 | <lambdabot> | True |
| 19:35:14 | <monochrom> | \∩/ |
| 19:35:35 | <zzz> | ah nice |
| 19:37:43 | <monochrom> | Also: |
| 19:37:47 | <monochrom> | > '\^A' |
| 19:37:49 | <lambdabot> | '\SOH' |
| 19:37:56 | <monochrom> | > fromEnum '\^A' |
| 19:37:58 | <lambdabot> | 1 |
| 19:39:32 | <monochrom> | In general, '\^A' ... '\^Z' are 1 to 26. You can think of "ctrl-A ... ctrl-Z". Then followed by '\^[', '\^\', '\^]' |
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| 19:47:33 | <pavonia> | I didn't know that's part of Haskell syntax |
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| 20:57:21 | <moonsheep> | what is the go-to for cryptography in haskell? the two main libraries I've seen seem to be cryptonite and HsOpenSSL |
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| 20:59:34 | <moonsheep> | the cryptonite docs specifically warn that "If you have no idea what you're doing, please do not use this directly. Instead, rely on higher level protocols or implementations." |
| 20:59:44 | <moonsheep> | I think I have /some/ idea of what I'm doing |
| 20:59:56 | <moonsheep> | and I certainly want access to low level cryptographic primitives |
| 21:00:10 | <geekosaur> | note that lots of people don't trust cryptonite because it hasn't been audited |
| 21:00:11 | <moonsheep> | however it's way easier to find openssl examples and advice online |
| 21:00:21 | <moonsheep> | geekosaur: oh good point |
| 21:00:35 | <moonsheep> | I mean what I'm doing isn't safety critical (just a chat with friends) |
| 21:00:42 | <moonsheep> | but it would still be nice to get some guarantees |
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| 21:01:34 | <[exa]> | moonsheep: depends a lot on what you want to do btw |
| 21:01:37 | <EvanR> | what was that haskell DSL which compiled to timing attack resistant opcodes |
| 21:02:27 | <moonsheep> | [exa]: I'm writing a chat directly on top of TCP. I know I could just use TLS but I want to learn about this stuff at a lower level |
| 21:02:47 | [exa] | gasps |
| 21:02:56 | <moonsheep> | I know |
| 21:03:19 | <EvanR> | oh then use homebrew crypto xD |
| 21:03:30 | <[exa]> | ok well you might have a pretty good chance but it needs a lot of good programming practice, and it's still likely gonna get pwned |
| 21:03:34 | <moonsheep> | hey I'm not *that* insane |
| 21:03:51 | <moonsheep> | [exa]: eh I don't mind too much if it gets pwned |
| 21:03:57 | <EvanR> | if the purpose is learning then then purpose is not serious usage anyway |
| 21:04:00 | <moonsheep> | I don't intend to use it to store all my tax fraud data |
| 21:04:06 | <[exa]> | there should be DH-style key exchanges exposed in HsOpenSSL |
| 21:04:13 | <Clint> | you should do janitorial work on https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nettle , it'll be fun |
| 21:04:36 | <moonsheep> | oh didn't know about nettle |
| 21:04:45 | <moonsheep> | will give it a look |
| 21:04:47 | <Clint> | it's undermaintained |
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| 21:09:52 | <[exa]> | moonsheep: just an idea to make it a bit easier, you might first want to safeguard individual messages rather than the whole connection, that's much easier to implement and (given you don't rely too much on the TCP connection status) usually sufficient |
| 21:10:41 | <EvanR> | take each message and rot13 it, as opposed to rot13ing the whole stream |
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| 21:12:16 | <moonsheep> | [exa]: actually that was the plan anyway |
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| 21:13:16 | <moonsheep> | I mentioned TLS because it could be used as a drop-in replacement but I do want each message to be encrypted (and signed) individually |
| 21:14:42 | <EvanR> | it's a good thing we use encryption to connect to IRC so no one can listen in |
| 21:15:23 | <moonsheep> | oh yeah forgot to mention |
| 21:15:29 | <moonsheep> | unlike IRC i plan to make the encryption end-to-end |
| 21:15:42 | <moonsheep> | so libera can't put words in my mouth I never said |
| 21:16:17 | <EvanR> | you're making a chat network? that can't tell what people are saying? |
| 21:16:38 | <moonsheep> | no, I'm making a very simple chat client meant for use with my friends that's all |
| 21:16:48 | <EvanR> | ok, peer to peer |
| 21:16:52 | <moonsheep> | in fact I don't even bother having a server I just connect clients directly through LAN |
| 21:17:01 | <moonsheep> | yeah but that mostly irrelevant when it comes to cryptography no? |
| 21:17:15 | <EvanR> | you brought up IRC |
| 21:17:18 | <moonsheep> | true |
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| 21:17:49 | <EvanR> | actually I did |
| 21:18:14 | <moonsheep> | well I did mention that my chat is unlike IRC |
| 21:18:24 | <moonsheep> | either way though, it's not meant to be anything serious |
| 21:18:44 | <moonsheep> | if security considerations were important I obviously wouldn't be implementing a homebrew protocol |
| 21:18:45 | <sm> | you might find simplex chat a good source of ideas |
| 21:18:49 | <moonsheep> | I'd use something more tried-and-tested like PGP |
| 21:19:02 | <Clint> | or OTR |
| 21:19:05 | <moonsheep> | sm: didn't know about it |
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| 21:21:09 | <sm> | seems to use cryptonite |
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| 21:33:06 | <david> | Hello! |
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| 21:33:26 | <david> | Quick question: Haskell has a reputation to be perfect to build parsers |
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| 21:33:58 | <david> | How much line would it take to write something that parses eg 'f(a, g(c, d), e)' into the corresponding tree expression? |
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| 21:37:37 | <moonsheep> | david: with parser combinators maybe under 20 lines |
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| 21:37:53 | <moonsheep> | they aren't particularly fast but the code usually looks really nice |
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| 22:25:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://www.stephendiehl.com/llvm/#chapter-2-parser-and-ast |
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| 22:26:24 | <DigitalKiwi> | david: ^ |
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| 22:45:57 | <EvanR> | that particular form is also pretty easy to parse without anything particularly haskell |
| 22:46:19 | <EvanR> | so might not be the best haskellbrag |
| 22:52:44 | <EvanR> | david, https://paste.tomsmeding.com/QrOFVuj3 |
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| 22:57:48 | <DigitalKiwi> | 16 lines nice |
| 22:58:09 | <DigitalKiwi> | now make that comment a docstring so it's testable lol |
| 23:00:49 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/2022-09-26-180012_1062x622_scrot.png why're there spaces EvanR :( |
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| 23:02:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | " remove white space |
| 23:02:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | :nnoremap <silent> <F5> :let _s=@/ <Bar> :%s/\s\+$//e <Bar> :let @/=_s <Bar> :nohl <Bar> :unlet _s <CR> |
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| 23:04:18 | <DigitalKiwi> | boo |
| 23:04:20 | <DigitalKiwi> | bin/david.hs:8:27: error: Illegal lambda-case (use LambdaCase) |
| 23:07:24 | <EvanR> | you didn't think it would actually run did you! |
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| 23:07:53 | <EvanR> | (LambdaCase isn't a default extension yet?) |
| 23:08:00 | <DigitalKiwi> | i had faith in you |
| 23:08:20 | <geekosaur> | probably in ghc2021 |
| 23:09:43 | <DigitalKiwi> | i will make it run https://markkarpov.com/tutorial/megaparsec.html |
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| 23:16:21 | <EvanR> | oh uh, use the parser by uttering > parseTest david "f(a, g(c, d), e)" at ghci |
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| 23:17:39 | <EvanR> | oh |
| 23:17:49 | <EvanR> | Parser isn't even defined in megaparsec... |
| 23:17:52 | <EvanR> | nevermind |
| 23:17:57 | <EvanR> | YMMV |
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| 23:20:29 | <geekosaur> | I think it's ParsecM and a bunch of extra stuff so it can handle various kinds of streams |
| 23:21:02 | <EvanR> | I have this to make it run: type Parser = Parsec Void String |
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| 23:32:22 | <ski> | > "\^@\^[\^\\^]\^^\^_" |
| 23:32:24 | <lambdabot> | "\NUL\ESC\FS\GS\RS\US" |
| 23:32:25 | <ski> | > '\^?' |
| 23:32:27 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:4: error: |
| 23:32:27 | <lambdabot> | lexical error in string/character literal at character '?' |
| 23:33:10 | <monochrom> | ^_^ |
| 23:33:20 | <monochrom> | \^_^/ |
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| 23:42:01 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/david.hs |
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| 23:48:08 | <DigitalKiwi> | curl -sO https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/david.hs && nix-shell david.hs |
| 23:48:08 | <DigitalKiwi> | MkTree 'f' [MkTree 'a' [],MkTree 'g' [MkTree 'c' [],MkTree 'd' []],MkTree 'e' []] |
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| 23:52:03 | <EvanR> | DigitalKiwi, well that was simple |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-09-26.