Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2022-10-27 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:01:03 → mixfix41 joins (~sdeny9ee@user/mixfix41)
00:01:57 × ubert quits (~Thunderbi@178.165.192.156.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:03:29 → redmp joins (~redmp@166.170.42.41)
00:03:53 → ubert joins (~Thunderbi@178.165.169.91)
00:06:59 × emmanuelux quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: au revoir)
00:08:23 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
00:10:26 × mmhat quits (~mmh@p200300f1c73076a6ee086bfffe095315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1)
00:11:22 × Buliarous quits (~gypsydang@46.232.210.139) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:14:11 → nate2 joins (~nate@98.45.169.16)
00:17:40 × harveypwca quits (~harveypwc@2601:246:c180:a570:3828:d8:e523:3f67) (Quit: Leaving)
00:18:10 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
00:18:57 × nate2 quits (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:23:31 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
00:24:12 × redmp quits (~redmp@166.170.42.41) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:33:39 × ystael quits (~ystael@user/ystael) (Quit: Lost terminal)
00:33:42 × raehik quits (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:36:17 × talismanick quits (~talismani@76.133.152.122) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:45:31 → polo_ joins (~polo@user/polo)
00:46:42 × quintasan quits (~quassel@quintasan.pl) ()
00:47:41 → segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
00:47:41 → quintasan joins (~quassel@188.226.239.107)
00:49:08 × polo quits (~polo@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:51:17 × mncheck quits (~mncheck@193.224.205.254) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:52:20 × polo_ quits (~polo@user/polo) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
00:52:27 × sammelweis quits (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
00:53:24 → polo joins (~polo@user/polo)
00:53:43 → sammelweis joins (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10)
00:58:14 × polo quits (~polo@user/polo) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:59:36 → redmp joins (~redmp@mobile-166-177-249-89.mycingular.net)
01:00:05 → Kaipei joins (~Kaiepi@108.175.84.104)
01:04:29 × Kaiepi quits (~Kaiepi@108.175.84.104) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
01:07:59 × beteigeuze quits (~Thunderbi@2001:8a0:61b5:6101:9233:19e9:6537:6e73) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
01:08:06 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
01:08:06 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
01:08:06 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
01:10:33 × albet70 quits (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:16:16 × Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
01:17:12 → albet70 joins (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
01:17:26 → Lord_of_Life joins (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
01:18:17 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:658c:a3a:4ac3:c2c4) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:21:02 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d198-53-218-113.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
01:25:37 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:48:11 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
01:48:17 × crns quits (~netcrns@user/crns) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:49:30 × kayvank quits (~user@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:49:58 → crns joins (~netcrns@user/crns)
01:56:18 → grantonthenet joins (~Grant@72.47.110.194)
01:58:51 × inversed quits (~inversed@bcdcac82.skybroadband.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:59:32 → segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
02:00:43 → razetime joins (~quassel@49.207.192.79)
02:01:25 → nate2 joins (~nate@98.45.169.16)
02:01:47 → xff0x joins (~xff0x@125.103.176.34)
02:02:44 → inversed joins (~inversed@bcdcac82.skybroadband.com)
02:04:55 × freeside quits (~mengwong@103.252.202.193) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:09:37 × td_ quits (~td@83.135.9.27) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:11:36 → td_ joins (~td@83.135.9.51)
02:17:08 → nate3 joins (~nate@98.45.169.16)
02:17:09 × nate2 quits (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:17:32 → freeside joins (~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
02:18:25 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
02:18:25 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
02:18:25 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
02:19:18 <sm> Text not always > String:
02:19:18 <sm> "inliner is getting really happy with certain combinations of <> for Text. The <> for String doesn't appear to cause any issues at all, and memory use holds prety consistent around 150MB."
02:20:09 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@125.103.176.34) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × albet70 quits (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × quintasan quits (~quassel@188.226.239.107) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × ubert quits (~Thunderbi@178.165.169.91) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × EvanR quits (~EvanR@user/evanr) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:f81b:3b92:bbe7:93b6) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × cytokine_storm quits (~cytokine_@user/cytokine-storm/x-1083107) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × Sauvin quits (~sauvin@user/Sauvin) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × m5zs7k quits (aquares@web10.mydevil.net) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × ajb quits (~ajb@mimas.whatbox.ca) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × whatsupdoc quits (uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × mjs2600 quits (~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × teddyc quits (theodorc@cassarossa.samfundet.no) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × AkechiShiro quits (~licht@user/akechishiro) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × mcfrdy quits (~mcfrdy@user/mcfrdy) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × hexology quits (~hexology@user/hexology) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × earthy quits (~arthurvl@2a02-a469-f5e2-1-ba27-ebff-fea0-40b0.fixed6.kpn.net) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × lieven quits (~mal@ns2.wyrd.be) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × spaced quits (uid572193@user/spaced) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × codedmart quits (codedmart@2600:3c01::f03c:92ff:fefe:8511) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × rembo10 quits (~rembo10@main.remulis.com) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × Raito_Bezarius quits (~Raito@wireguard/tunneler/raito-bezarius) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × lechner quits (lechner@debian/lechner) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × lagash quits (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × Luj3 quits (~Luj@2a01:e0a:5f9:9681:9cda:ce1d:ce82:c3dd) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × Unhammer quits (~Unhammer@user/unhammer) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × anderson quits (~ande@user/anderson) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × flukiluke quits (~m-7humut@2603:c023:c000:6c7e:8945:ad24:9113:a962) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × PHO` quits (~pho@akari.cielonegro.org) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × p3n quits (~p3n@217.198.124.246) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × vjoki quits (~vjoki@2a00:d880:3:1::fea1:9ae) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × Aleksejs quits (~Aleksejs@107.170.21.106) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × acertain quits (sid470584@2a03:5180:f:4::7:2e38) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × b20n quits (sid115913@2a03:5180:f:5::1:c4c9) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × davetapley_ quits (sid666@2a03:5180:f:5::29a) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × Firedancer quits (sid336191@2a03:5180:f:4::5:213f) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × lally quits (sid388228@2a03:5180:f:5::5:ec84) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × liskin quits (~liskin@xmonad/liskin) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × aristid quits (sid1599@2a03:5180:f:5::63f) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × kawzeg quits (kawzeg@2a01:7e01::f03c:92ff:fee2:ec34) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × dexter1 quits (dexter@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe86:59ec) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × leeb quits (~leeb@tk2-243-31079.vs.sakura.ne.jp) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × conjunctive quits (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × _\_ quits (~o@user/offon) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × nisstyre quits (wes@user/nisstyre) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × edwtjo quits (~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × shinjipf quits (~shinjipf@2a01:4f8:1c1c:c1be::1) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × tomku quits (~tomku@user/tomku) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × bonz060 quits (~quassel@2001:bc8:47a4:a23::1) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × Yumemi quits (~Yumemi@chamoin.net) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × Moyst quits (~moyst@user/moyst) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × kritzefitz quits (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × immae quits (~immae@2a01:4f8:141:53e7::) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × lbseale quits (~quassel@user/ep1ctetus) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × haasn quits (~nand@haasn.dev) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × mtjm quits (~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001) (*.net *.split)
02:20:09 × jackhill quits (~jackhill@kalessin.dragonsnail.net) (*.net *.split)
02:20:18 → tomku joins (~tomku@user/tomku)
02:20:20 → rembo10 joins (~rembo10@main.remulis.com)
02:20:20 → codedmart joins (codedmart@2600:3c01::f03c:92ff:fefe:8511)
02:20:21 → lagash joins (lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net)
02:20:23 → ajb joins (~ajb@mimas.whatbox.ca)
02:20:24 → edwtjo joins (~edwtjo@h-109-228-137-133.A213.priv.bahnhof.se)
02:20:26 → mjs2600 joins (~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
02:20:29 → bonz060 joins (~quassel@2001:bc8:47a4:a23::1)
02:20:32 → xff0x joins (~xff0x@125x103x176x34.ap125.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
02:20:34 → aristid joins (sid1599@id-1599.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
02:20:35 → quintasan joins (~quassel@quintasan.pl)
02:20:36 → acertain joins (sid470584@id-470584.hampstead.irccloud.com)
02:20:37 → b20n joins (sid115913@id-115913.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
02:20:38 → spaced joins (uid572193@user/spaced)
02:20:38 <sm> https://github.com/yesodweb/persistent/pull/1434
02:20:39 → dexter1 joins (dexter@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe86:59ec)
02:20:39 → shinjipf joins (~shinjipf@2a01:4f8:1c1c:c1be::1)
02:20:39 → kawzeg joins (kawzeg@2a01:7e01::f03c:92ff:fee2:ec34)
02:20:41 → lieven joins (~mal@ns2.wyrd.be)
02:20:42 → liskin joins (~liskin@ackle.nomi.cz)
02:20:42 → lechner joins (lechner@linode.us-core.com)
02:20:43 → lally joins (sid388228@id-388228.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
02:20:44 → whatsupdoc joins (uid509081@id-509081.hampstead.irccloud.com)
02:20:45 → Unhammer joins (~Unhammer@2a01:799:40:f700::237)
02:20:46 × edwtjo quits (~edwtjo@h-109-228-137-133.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) (Changing host)
02:20:46 → edwtjo joins (~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo)
02:20:47 → teddyc joins (theodorc@cassarossa.samfundet.no)
02:20:48 → AkechiShiro joins (~licht@2a01:e0a:5f9:9681:53a9:19ec:6934:da62)
02:20:49 → earthy joins (~arthurvl@2a02-a469-f5e2-1-ba27-ebff-fea0-40b0.fixed6.kpn.net)
02:20:50 → Firedancer joins (sid336191@hampstead.irccloud.com)
02:20:50 → conjunctive joins (sid433686@id-433686.helmsley.irccloud.com)
02:21:07 → nisstyre joins (~wes@li798-187.members.linode.com)
02:21:09 → davetapley_ joins (sid666@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
02:21:09 → Raito_Bezarius joins (~Raito@2a01:e0a:5f9:9681:92a1:cfc4:8cb0:c6ed)
02:21:09 → immae joins (~immae@static.233.10.9.176.clients.your-server.de)
02:21:12 × lechner quits (lechner@linode.us-core.com) (Changing host)
02:21:12 → lechner joins (lechner@debian/lechner)
02:21:12 × liskin quits (~liskin@ackle.nomi.cz) (Changing host)
02:21:12 → liskin joins (~liskin@xmonad/liskin)
02:21:12 × Unhammer quits (~Unhammer@2a01:799:40:f700::237) (Changing host)
02:21:12 → Unhammer joins (~Unhammer@user/unhammer)
02:21:54 → ubert joins (~Thunderbi@178.165.169.91.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
02:21:54 → Yumemi joins (~Yumemi@chamoin.net)
02:22:00 → Sauvin joins (~sauvin@user/Sauvin)
02:22:01 → mtjm joins (~mutantmel@2604:a880:2:d0::208b:d001)
02:22:03 → hexology joins (~hexology@user/hexology)
02:22:09 → eggplantade joins (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:f81b:3b92:bbe7:93b6)
02:22:11 → m5zs7k joins (aquares@web10.mydevil.net)
02:22:16 → EvanR joins (~EvanR@user/evanr)
02:22:21 → _\_ joins (~o@user/offon)
02:22:24 → lbseale joins (~quassel@user/ep1ctetus)
02:22:32 → leeb joins (~leeb@tk2-243-31079.vs.sakura.ne.jp)
02:22:32 → haasn joins (~nand@haasn.dev)
02:22:39 → anderson joins (~ande@user/anderson)
02:22:45 → flukiluke joins (~m-7humut@2603:c023:c000:6c7e:8945:ad24:9113:a962)
02:22:46 → PHO` joins (~pho@akari.cielonegro.org)
02:22:47 → p3n joins (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1)
02:22:54 → mcfrdy joins (~mcfrdy@user/mcfrdy)
02:23:11 × freeside quits (~mengwong@103.252.202.193) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:23:30 → vjoki joins (~vjoki@2a00:d880:3:1::fea1:9ae)
02:24:57 → Moyst joins (~moyst@user/moyst)
02:25:22 → jackhill joins (~jackhill@kalessin.dragonsnail.net)
02:25:24 → cytokine_storm joins (~cytokine_@user/cytokine-storm/x-1083107)
02:26:41 → albet70 joins (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
02:27:40 → polo joins (~polo@user/polo)
02:27:55 → freeside joins (~mengwong@103.252.202.193)
02:29:48 → Aleksejs joins (~Aleksejs@107.170.21.106)
02:34:20 × grantonthenet quits (~Grant@72.47.110.194) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:37:31 × polo quits (~polo@user/polo) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
02:42:01 → boxscape joins (~boxscape@81.191.27.107)
02:43:40 → fluxit joins (~fluxit@2604:a880:1:20::ab:1001)
02:44:14 × waleee quits (~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
02:47:39 × FinnElija quits (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
02:47:39 → finn_elija joins (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
02:47:39 finn_elija is now known as FinnElija
02:49:56 <boxscape> a little surprised that this compiles https://paste.tomsmeding.com/rZ1L7KIV
02:50:01 boxscape is now known as boxscape_
02:50:04 <EvanR> as much crap as haskell gets for String Text etc I appreciate having options when it comes to performance. Though it's still a questionable situation not having a good standard for when you specifically don't care about performance
02:53:21 <boxscape_> (Also, just found out my link is parsed *not* as `do f a b c d e`, but instead as `(do f) a b c d e`)
02:54:21 × jero98772 quits (~jero98772@2800:484:1d80:d8ce:3490:26c5:1782:da8c) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:01:42 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
03:04:11 × cods quits (~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
03:04:45 × boxscape_ quits (~boxscape@81.191.27.107) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:04:57 → boxscape joins (~boxscape@81.191.27.107)
03:04:57 boxscape is now known as boxscape_
03:04:59 × nate3 quits (~nate@98.45.169.16) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
03:05:37 × HackingSpring quits (~haru@189-69-2-94.dsl.telesp.net.br) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:09:41 → jargon joins (~jargon@184.101.208.112)
03:21:22 → cods joins (~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net)
03:22:13 × dfee quits (~dfee@162-227-164-101.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:32:20 × cytokine_storm quits (~cytokine_@user/cytokine-storm/x-1083107) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
03:32:42 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com)
03:32:43 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@207-153-38-140.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
03:32:43 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@user/wroathe)
03:39:08 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
03:40:08 × segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
03:40:09 × Vajb quits (~Vajb@2001:999:504:1841:9e47:1ec7:a52e:1d57) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:41:22 → Vajb joins (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a5-27.dhcp.inet.fi)
03:43:26 → segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-212.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
04:02:20 × zebrag quits (~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
04:03:54 × Vajb quits (~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a5-27.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:04:10 → Vajb joins (~Vajb@2001:999:504:1841:9e47:1ec7:a52e:1d57)
04:04:54 × img quits (~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
04:05:31 → dfee joins (~dfee@162-227-164-101.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
04:06:35 × dfee quits (~dfee@162-227-164-101.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
04:07:26 × sammelweis quits (~quassel@2601:401:8200:2d4c:bd9:d04c:7f69:eb10) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
04:07:37 × phma quits (~phma@host-67-44-208-129.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:07:45 → img joins (~img@user/img)
04:08:31 × jao quits (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:08:33 → phma joins (phma@2001:5b0:212a:d108:940:4877:1056:c32c)
04:10:29 → jao joins (~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
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07:50:42 <Profpatsch> It’s pretty arbitrary that Just a <> Nothing == Just a right?
07:50:45 <Profpatsch> Might as well be Nothing
07:51:02 <Profpatsch> Or is there any deeper meaning to having this instance?
07:51:30 <Franciman> hi Profpatsch
07:51:50 <Franciman> it's in that way so that Nothing works as identity for <>
07:52:05 <Franciman> and it renders `Maybe a` a monoid too
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07:53:14 <Profpatsch> Ah, right
07:53:17 <Profpatsch> thx
07:53:49 <Franciman> actually `Maybe a` is a monoid if `a` is a monoid
07:53:54 <Franciman> because you have
07:54:02 <Franciman> Just x <> Just y == Just (x <> y)
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07:54:35 <Profpatsch> Franciman: Semigroup
07:54:43 <Franciman> yes sorry
07:54:46 <Profpatsch> you can also have the other way, but then you need a Monoid
07:54:54 <Profpatsch> they are both equally feasible
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07:55:20 <Profpatsch> one uses Nothing as the mempty, the other `Just mempty`
07:55:48 <Profpatsch> Unless I got something wrong?
07:57:30 <[Leary]> Introducting a special element and making it the indentity by definition is a standard algebraic construction. Maybe, it was decided, should have the corresponding instance. The other one can be used via `Ap` anyway.
07:58:53 <[Leary]> > Nothing <> Just []
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07:58:55 <lambdabot> Just []
07:59:01 <[Leary]> > Ap Nothing <> Ap (Just [])
07:59:02 <lambdabot> Ap {getAp = Nothing}
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08:01:36 <chreekat> Ap is a mystery to me. I understood it once, in 2020, for about 20 minutes
08:03:31 <[Leary]> There's nothing complicated about it; it's just a newtype to host instances that con be produced by lifting over Applicative.
08:03:51 <[Leary]> So (<>) on the underlying becomes liftA2 (<>) on the Applicative, etc.
08:05:36 <chreekat> The first thing that's complicated about it is its description. ;) "witnesses the lifting of a Monoid into an Applicative pointwise".
08:05:54 <chreekat> "lift" means about 10 different things, so which is it in this case? and I do not know what "pointwise" means
08:07:18 <chreekat> "witness" is (I think) a term from theorem proving?
08:08:49 <[Leary]> To "lift pointwise" is exactly Applicative's `liftA2`. It's "lifting" an `g :: a -> b -> c` to a `f a -> f b -> f c` by applying `g` to `a`s and `b`s produced by `f` "pointwise".
08:09:56 <[Leary]> A key point to note is that Applicative cannot produce an `f c` without matching every single `a` with `b`, so there's a kind of zipping up going on.
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08:10:46 <[Leary]> And yeah, a witness is basically just something that proves a result by fact of its existence.
08:11:18 <[Leary]> Rather than reading the description of `Ap`, I guess it's more helpful to read the Semigroup, Monoid and Num instances.
08:11:29 <[Leary]> Though the latter is unfortunately unlawful.
08:12:48 <chreekat> Indeed, I think just writing the Semigroup instance out would be better documentation. From that, I can see how you can make a Monoid out of an (f a) if a is a Semigroup and f is an Monoid. What's funny is Maybe is both an Applicative *and* 'Maybe a' is already a Monoid (if a is a Semigroup). So `Ap Maybe` is another applicative with a different Monoid instance!
08:13:03 <chreekat> typo, 'if f is an Applicative'
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08:21:37 <Profpatsch> chreekat: yeah, I’m tempted to do a docs pass over the base docs
08:22:07 <Profpatsch> The one thing with the most payoff the Haskell foundation could do would be to hire one of the technical writers that were fired by Mozilla
08:22:23 <Profpatsch> the ones that wrote the original rust stdlib documentation
08:22:39 <Profpatsch> Hecate: ^
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08:23:16 <Profpatsch> e.g. the documentation for `Monoid (Maybe a)` should probably just read: `mempty = Nothing`
08:23:29 <Profpatsch> instead of whatever stuff it says right now
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08:27:41 <Hecate> hello
08:28:11 <Hecate> yes we have the money to hire technical writers
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10:18:00 <jackdk> The challenge is to do it in a way that adds the technical terms to the reader's vocabulary
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10:29:02 <chreekat> Why? :) I don't learn the technical terms of astrophysics to sit in the warm sun
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10:56:45 <probie> Are there any widely used alternatives to aeson?
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11:32:00 <jackdk> no. there is waargonaut and I only just heard of hermes-json, because I saw it used in something the other day
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11:32:44 <tomsmeding> there is the 'json' package, which is not _widely_ used but is used, and is very simple
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12:04:27 <dminuoso> One thing that additionally comes to mind, is that haddock documentation on instances is somewhat lacking.
12:04:52 <dminuoso> I would like being able to document individual methods on an instance somehow
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12:19:10 <chreekat> Yes, that would be nice
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12:32:30 <dminuoso> Does someone have some intuition as to why `arbitraryChar` might generate a \NUL character here? https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/dd9faad54d7719392319032ed8430916
12:32:46 <dminuoso> Im using QuickCheck-2.14.2, and arbitraryPrintableChar is not shadowed
12:33:15 <dminuoso> arbitraryPrintableChar = arbitrary `suchThat` isPrint
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12:33:20 <dminuoso> % import Data.Char
12:33:20 <yahb2> <no output>
12:33:25 <dminuoso> % isPrint '\NUL'
12:33:25 <yahb2> False
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12:49:27 <[Leary]> % isPrint . Data.Char.chr <$> [256,512..25600]
12:49:27 <yahb2> [True,True,True,True,True,False,True,True,True,False,False,True,True,False,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,Tr...
12:49:32 <[Leary]> % BS8.pack $ Data.Char.chr <$> [256,512..25600]
12:49:32 <yahb2> "\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL...
12:49:42 <[Leary]> dminuoso: Probably truncation.
12:54:34 <dminuoso> [Leary]: Good catch, thank you very much
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14:23:21 <Profpatsch> probie: why do you ask?
14:23:38 <Profpatsch> I don’t like the aeson interface very much, either, but I use libraries like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-better-errors to work around it
14:23:55 <Profpatsch>
14:24:32 <Profpatsch> With OverloadedRecordDot, is there a way to automatically import the fields of recursive types?
14:25:07 <Profpatsch> I made the decision (mistake?) to enable NoFieldSelectors, but now I get a very confusing “no HasField instance” error every time I forget to import a nested field
14:25:32 <Profpatsch> I guess it’s not directly related to NoFieldSelectors, just to the bad UX of dot syntax atm
14:27:02 <merijn> All the record extensions are a mistake :p
14:27:13 <merijn> With the exception of NamedFieldPuns and NoFieldSelectors :p
14:27:28 <merijn> RecordWildCard is a mistake, but also guilty pleasure :p
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14:34:00 <AndreasK> bgamari: are you around
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14:38:16 <Profpatsch> merijn: I don’t believe so. With OverloadedRecordDot I can finally in good conscience recommend Haskell as a modern language
14:38:29 <Profpatsch> Well, if the error message & hls support were better, but I hope it’s getting there
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15:01:21 <maralorn> Yeah, the no instance thingy is really stupid. Because in Haskell missing instance nearly never means that you just forgot to import it.
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15:42:28 <AlexZenon> C:\Program Files\Borland\Delphi5
15:42:29 <AlexZenon> C:\Program Files\Common Files\Borland Shared\
15:42:29 <AlexZenon> C:\Program Files\Common Files\Borland Shared\BDE\
15:42:29 <AlexZenon> C:\Program Files\Borland\Database Desktop\
15:42:29 <AlexZenon> C:\PROGRA~1\Borland\vbroker
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15:43:09 <geekosaur> ?
15:43:25 <Alex_test> ��.
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15:58:51 <probie> Profpatsch: On a personal note, I think Aeson has too many dependencies and it doesn't care about key ordering (or at least didn't). On a practical note, I want to be able to "stream" values
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16:07:00 <probie> I guess I just really want a dumb parser/printer instead of a full serialisation library (or at least separate from it). I'll probably just write what I want, since none of the alternatives seem much better
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16:11:43 <Profpatsch> probie: yeah, the parser does not keep the order of elements in object
16:11:50 <Profpatsch> that’s a hard technical limitation if you need that
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16:12:11 <Profpatsch> But I *think* you could re-use the underlying parser combinators if you need that
16:12:36 <Profpatsch> I wouldn’t really recommend writing a json parser yourself if it can be avoided
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16:13:47 <Profpatsch> probie: this is the parser you need: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.1.1.0/docs/Data-Aeson-Parser-Internal.html#v:jsonWith
16:15:49 <Profpatsch> or well, it’s the thing you need to change slightly to be useful to you
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16:53:26 <EvanR> Alex_test is on DOS and their IRC client and C compiler address space collided
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16:53:57 <EvanR> s/C/Delphi/
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17:05:25 <geekosaur> qemm worked better than that usually 🙂
17:06:17 <geekosaur> well, desqview, it took more than just an emm to get multiple dos programs running that way
17:06:27 <geekosaur> maybe windows 3.10
17:06:55 <geekosaur> desqview was always more reliable for me
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17:37:27 <EvanR> TIL DOS could multitask. But I guess windows 3.1 had to somehow
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17:38:42 <Athas> Cooperatively, right?
17:38:49 <Athas> Basically the concurrency monad.
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17:39:36 <jean-paul[m]> is there a way to point a stack `extra-deps` item at a local filesystem directory (not a .zip)?
17:40:50 <geekosaur> Athas, yes unless the program had support for preemptive multitasking and declarerd it via the appropriate API
17:41:18 <geekosaur> quite a few programs knew how to use the DV API. I don't recall if Windows for DOS had such an API
17:42:10 <geekosaur> there were other programs which supported internal cooperative threading (notably NOS.EXE variants used in ham radio)
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17:43:24 <EvanR> concurrency monad?
17:44:42 <geekosaur> if only it were that organized 🙂
17:45:07 <geekosaur> setjmp-based multitasking was always a hack
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17:48:51 <Athas> Well, so is the concurrency monad!
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17:49:37 <EvanR> what is >>= for the concurrency monad
17:50:16 <Athas> Either sequential composition or a switch to another "thread".
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17:50:30 <Athas> The concurrency monad really isn't as interesting as it sounds.
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17:52:41 <jean-paul[m]> (extra-deps accepts a local path as a string ... duh)
17:52:55 <EvanR> is it like, a rebranded List monad
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17:54:07 <Athas> EvanR: to be frank, there is no *the* concurrency monad, but it's basically a kind of continuation monad with multiple running continuations: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A369E310ADAE4455020C918FC1D47958/S0956796899003342a.pdf/poor_mans_concurrency_monad.pdf
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17:56:48 <EvanR> the title a poor man's concurrency monad implies there is a proper privileged concurrency monad somewhere and we won't be implementing that xD
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17:58:17 <Athas> A rich man's concurrency monad actually uses proper platform concurrency primitives.
17:58:32 <Athas> But the proletariat can only afford longjmp().
17:58:51 <EvanR> ah ok, IO
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18:12:24 <EvanR> ah MonadPlus for such a monad is parallel composition
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18:20:03 <EvanR> in two places in the paper they refer to "non-proper morphisms of [some monad]"
18:20:16 <EvanR> what is a proper / non-proper morphism
18:21:48 <darkling> I'd guess that a proper morphism excludes the identity?
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18:31:12 <EvanR> like, it lists 3 functions used to access IORefs in the IO monad, it calls all 3 non-proper morphisms of IO. Maybe some weird historical jargon
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19:29:36 <energizer> is python the only language that has a variadic `zip`?
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19:34:21 <EvanR> lisp
19:34:29 <energizer> which one
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19:39:42 <EvanR> while trying to find the answer to that, I also found a variadic zip function in R
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19:41:17 <energizer> what's it called in R?
19:43:29 <energizer> i'm trying to figure out what a variadic zip should do with zero arguments
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19:45:37 <EvanR> zip
19:46:19 <probie> does lisp have variadic zip, or is it just something like `(map list arg1 arg2 arg3 .. argn)`?
19:46:24 <EvanR> if you think of zip as a matrix transpose, then zero arguments could indicate a 0xN Nx0 or 0x0 matrix transpose
19:46:46 <EvanR> i.e. not usually expressible using lists
19:47:02 <EvanR> or, not distinguishable
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19:54:43 <energizer> EvanR: zip seems to be about creating zip archives https://www.rdocumentation.org/packages/utils/versions/3.6.2/topics/zip
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19:55:06 <probie> I think that zip with zero args should be `repeat ()`
19:55:28 <energizer> probie: can you explain why
19:57:32 <EvanR> repeat () is one of the interpretations of the matrix transpose
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19:57:59 <EvanR> since the size of the matrix is unknown and not represented we don't know what the answer should be
19:59:04 <probie> I'd like `zip a (zip b c)`, `zip a b c`, `zip (zip a b) c` to provide the same answer, modulo some tuple-juggling
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20:03:17 <EvanR> well I closed the tab with that zip function in R and I can't find it
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20:04:33 <EvanR> the graphical linear algebra blob also motivates the well-typed matrix view of this
20:04:50 <EvanR> which list of list isn't a good example
20:05:01 <EvanR> blog*
20:05:36 <gqplox> Hi guys
20:05:38 <gqplox> how's it going
20:06:08 <gqplox> Please could you give some feedback on my code
20:07:01 <gqplox> http://sprunge.us/PXE7if?hs
20:08:03 <gqplox> (Somewhat similar thing in python) http://sprunge.us/Q59Oql?py
20:09:36 <gqplox> My main "concern" is that it is really inefficient. However n practice I ran this script on an 80k word string and it took 0.2 sec so it's not an issue and I've heard that the Haskell compiler is pretty smart.
20:12:11 <EvanR> if it runs fast, that's great. But it may be using egregious amount of memory, which you can see by profiling. And if it's fast and not using a lot of memory, I question the question's premise xD
20:13:20 <probie> frequencies is a lot slower than it needs to be, since you "count" frequencies once for every word in your input, not once for every distinct word
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20:14:14 <gqplox> Haha fair enough, what I mean to say is from my naiive understanding for example to calculate the count of each word i loop through the entire array whereas in the python one is O(n)
20:14:57 <gqplox> anyway Im an extreme beginner so if you had tips on improving the clarity of the code or how to make it more efficient i would be very grateful
20:14:58 <EvanR> looping through an array and looping through a list is O(n) regardless
20:15:29 <gqplox> But for each word if i loop over the words array then it's O(n^2) total as i have to calculate count of each word
20:15:31 <probie> also, it's probably preferable to go `length (filter p xs)` instead of `foldr (\x r -> if p x then 1 + r else r) 0 xs`.
20:15:55 <EvanR> also it should be foldl there (prime)
20:16:56 <EvanR> yeah you can avoid n^2 by using a Map of seen words and their counts
20:18:47 <gqplox> oh yeah the length filter is cool thank you
20:18:52 <gqplox> i didn't think of that lol
20:19:42 <gqplox> sorry what do you mean foldl (prime)?
20:20:04 <EvanR> foldl and foldl' is basically for when you want to loop over a list and accumulate something
20:20:19 <EvanR> or any Foldable
20:20:20 <probie> There's foldr and foldl. You almost never want to use foldl. Instead you want foldl' from Data.List
20:20:40 <gqplox> Oh right
20:20:48 <gqplox> ah that's why :t foldl' didnt work
20:20:56 <gqplox> ill read up on the difference thx
20:21:03 <EvanR> strictness analysis can make foldl work like foldl', I just mentioned foldl because mentioning ONLY foldl' might lead to a huge discussion about what happened to foldl, and so here we are anyway xD
20:21:12 <gqplox> but what was wrong with foldr there?
20:21:16 <EvanR> but they are both logically for the same purpose
20:21:29 <alexfmpe[m]> explanation of foldl vs foldr vs strict variants: https://github.com/hasura/graphql-engine/pull/2933#discussion_r328821960
20:21:43 <probie> If you're curious, here's my attempt at translating your python into Haskell https://paste.tomsmeding.com/qWTsnlOh
20:21:48 <EvanR> foldr would still technically work but inefficiently, and is just inappropriate
20:21:59 <EvanR> foldr is constructor replacement
20:22:11 <EvanR> it's quite lazy
20:22:36 <gqplox> wow cool thank you probie
20:22:45 <gqplox> time to look at what all that stuff does now :)
20:26:43 <EvanR> that discussion of foldl and foldr for lists makes it seem more symmetric than it is, especially once the folding is over some other structure
20:28:13 <EvanR> advice I never got, they are totally different and for different purposes
20:30:06 <geekosaur> right, that foldr works the way it does on lists is more or less an accidental correspondence with how lists are defined
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20:30:53 <energizer> EvanR: how is `repeat ()` a matrix transpose?
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20:33:15 <EvanR> if you represent a matrix as a list of rows where rows are tuples, repeat () is inf x 0 matrix
20:33:40 <EvanR> so a transpose of a 0 x inf matrix
20:34:23 <EvanR> which I guess you could represent as [], but ymmv
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23:02:03 <talismanick> How do I desugar `\x -> do {foo x; bar}`?
23:03:03 <jackdk> @undo \x -> do {foo x; bar}
23:03:03 <lambdabot> \ x -> foo x >> bar
23:03:07 <alexfmpe[m]> desugar?
23:03:54 <talismanick> jackdk: huh, that... was simpler than I thought
23:04:11 <jackdk> The rules are in s3.14 of the report: https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/exps.html
23:04:14 <davean> alexfmpe[m]: desugaring is the process of translating the syntax sugar into the base code the sugar represents
23:04:34 <davean> talismanick: do notation is VERY simple
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23:11:44 <talismanick> Might as well ask now... if I have a scoped-typevar lambda, how might I make it pointfree?
23:12:16 <Axman6> "scoped-typevar lambda"?
23:12:42 <talismanick> \(err :: IOError) -> foo . bar $ show err
23:13:19 <hpc> (foo . bar . show :: IOError -> Something Else) -- or something like that
23:13:23 <Axman6> foo . bar . show @IOError
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23:15:27 <talismanick> the former worked
23:16:20 <alexfmpe[m]> you can also ask lambdabot for pointfree transformations (in a DM so as not to spam chat)
23:16:20 <alexfmpe[m]> example:
23:16:20 <alexfmpe[m]> @pl \(err :: IOError) -> foo . bar $ show err
23:16:20 <lambdabot> (line 1, column 8):
23:16:20 <lambdabot> unexpected ":"
23:16:20 <lambdabot> expecting "()", natural, identifier, "_" or "("
23:16:28 <alexfmpe[m]> @pl (err :: IOError) -> foo . bar $ show err
23:16:29 <lambdabot> (line 1, column 20):
23:16:29 <lambdabot> unexpected '>'
23:16:29 <lambdabot> expecting operator
23:16:41 <alexfmpe[m]> huuuh what
23:16:42 <talismanick> The latter complained about "illegal visible application"
23:17:06 <geekosaur> "@pl" doesn't understand types in patterns
23:17:08 <talismanick> alexfmpe[m]: I'm asking because pointfree doesn't support anything to do with explicit typing or do-notation :)
23:17:40 <geekosaur> "@. pl undo" is a thing for the latter, though
23:17:40 <alexfmpe[m]> "support anything" ? I'd expect it to be completely independent
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23:17:52 <geekosaur> it still has to be able to parse it
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23:18:04 <geekosaur> it's not using ghc for that parse
23:18:17 <geekosaur> it's a simple substitution engine
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23:19:26 <hpc> @pl \case of example -> example
23:19:26 <lambdabot> const (const id)
23:19:27 <alexfmpe[m]> talismanick: `z = foo . bar . show @IOError` worked for me just fine with {-# LANGUAGE TypeApplications #-}
23:19:51 <talismanick> so... many... extensions
23:20:06 <hpc> er, that wasn't quite right, but in any event that's an example of something that should have been completely different
23:21:12 <alexfmpe[m]> you usually only need that one to disambiguate, which is likely not the case for you if the other version worked
23:21:44 <alexfmpe[m]> but imagine if you had something like
23:21:44 <alexfmpe[m]> show . parse
23:22:07 <alexfmpe[m]> that'd work for any Show a, so the type needs to be provided somehow
23:23:36 <alexfmpe[m]> er, show . read
23:24:11 <Axman6> IMO Type Applications should be enabled by default, they're just so useful
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23:26:49 <yushyin> Axman6: they are for GHC2021, https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/control.html#extension-GHC2021
23:27:07 <Axman6> Success!
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23:29:50 <hpc> that's only 4 billion seconds from now!
23:30:58 <hpc> hmm, why only GADTSyntax and not GADTs?
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23:31:35 <dolio> GADTs entails other things that might not be desirable by default.
23:31:44 <dolio> As I recall.
23:31:54 <hpc> ah, i suppose
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23:37:23 <geekosaur> RankNTypes which kinda kills type inference
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23:39:42 <hpc> lol that would do it
23:40:38 <hpc> hmm, GADTs doesn't imply RankNTypes though? https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/gadt.html seems perfectly fine to me
23:41:23 <hpc> maybe it's MonoLocalBinds though
23:41:41 <hpc> i haven't had any issues with it, but i can see someone getting annoyed by it
23:41:47 <geekosaur> whoops, I meant existential quantification, not rankntyoes
23:42:05 <geekosaur> s/tyoes/types/
23:43:11 <geekosaur> I seem to be making a bunch of dumb mistakes today 😞
23:43:14 <hpc> ExistentialQuantification is in ghc2021 :P
23:43:25 <hpc> geekosaur: honestly, i am just relieved it's not me this time :D
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23:48:02 <monochrom> GADTs implies MonoLocalBinds because it's noticed that GADTs doesn't play well with let-polymorphism.
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All times are in UTC on 2022-10-27.