Logs on 2022-10-30 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:18:11 | <EvanR> | wait... a regular expression is the pattern you type in to perl or is it an instance of a regular language being recognized or not |
| 00:18:44 | Clint | squints. |
| 00:19:11 | <EvanR> | on reddit someone says "an algorithm which views DFA transitions as a monoid under composition and parses regular expressions by reducing an input symbol under the composition operation" |
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| 00:19:30 | <EvanR> | surely they don't mean parsing stuff like "a+b*c?" |
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| 00:29:50 | <dolio> | Regular expressions are syntax for specifying regular languages. The things you type into Perl are not regular expressions, because they have constructs that are not regular. A subset of them are regular expressions, though. |
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| 00:40:17 | <EvanR> | a monoid M is said to recognize a subset S of monoid N if there exists a monoid morphism f from N to M such that S = f^-1(f(S)) -- wikipedia. After digesting this, I wonder what makes the monoid part important for this |
| 00:41:21 | <monochrom> | free associations? >:) |
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| 00:52:46 | <sclv> | which page of wikipedia? i think the reason for specifying monoid is specifically to pick out a class of definitions that correspond to DFAs or other characterizations of regular languages (and the monoidalness will map to the composition). |
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| 01:57:18 | <EvanR> | sclv, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognizable_set |
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| 07:15:06 | <talismanick> | Are there algebraic effect libraries (built on free, freer monads, etc) which mesh well with streaming IO libraries like Conduit or offer a competitive abstraction of their own? |
| 07:15:51 | <talismanick> | I'd like to incrementally read and parse large binary files from disk and interleave that with network IO actions |
| 07:16:08 | <talismanick> | (as in, larger than RAM) |
| 07:17:02 | <talismanick> | RIO and Conduit are representative of mtl-style design, right? |
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| 07:35:56 | <c_wraith> | Not really, no |
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| 07:40:24 | <c_wraith> | Conduit has some elements that are mtl-style, like MonadUnliftIO |
| 07:40:47 | <c_wraith> | but RIO is really very much not mtl style, as it's not polymorphic in a monad |
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| 07:51:21 | <talismanick> | c_wraith: so... suggestions on which streaming library I should use with Polysemy? |
| 07:52:01 | <talismanick> | (my understanding is that streaming is best left to dedicated libaries because lazy IO tends to cause space leaks, reading from closed files, etc) |
| 07:53:44 | <c_wraith> | I have no idea there |
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| 10:06:39 | <WzC> | Does anyone know if I can constrain type family declarations? In my concrete problem (see https://paste.tomsmeding.com/dnbHMuqh) I have some type family 'VectorFamily d r', and I want to accept type instances (e.g. type instance VectorFamily d Int = MyIntVec d) only if they also have some other type constraint (in particular NumType (VectorFamily d r) ~ r ; so NumType (MyIntVec d ~ Int) ). |
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| 10:46:47 | <MangoIV[m]> | you cannot constraint type families |
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| 12:01:43 | <jackdk> | Use a typeclass instead with a constraint? |
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| 15:31:12 | <Guest49> | hi I need a help with this task |
| 15:31:42 | <Guest49> | mport Data.Char |
| 15:31:42 | <Guest49> | type Result = [String] |
| 15:31:43 | <Guest49> | flipH :: Result -> Result |
| 15:31:43 | <Guest49> | flipH = reverse |
| 15:31:44 | <Guest49> | pp :: Result -> IO () |
| 15:31:45 | <Guest49> | pp x = putStr (concat (map (++"\n") x)) |
| 15:31:45 | <Guest49> | giv :: [String] -> String |
| 15:31:46 | <Guest49> | giv [] = [] |
| 15:31:46 | <Guest49> | giv (x:xs) = x ++ giv XS |
| 15:31:46 | <Guest49> | chess :: [String] -> [String] -> Result |
| 15:31:47 | <Guest49> | chess x y = chess2 x y chessboard |
| 15:31:48 | <Guest49> | where chessboard = ["1........", |
| 15:31:48 | <Guest49> | "2........", |
| 15:31:48 | <Guest49> | "3........", |
| 15:31:49 | <Guest49> | "4........", |
| 15:31:49 | <Guest49> | "5........", |
| 15:31:50 | <Guest49> | "6........", |
| 15:31:50 | <Guest49> | "7........", |
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| 15:32:50 | <Guest49> | I need flip the numbers (eight should be on top) |
| 15:33:07 | <Guest49> | But I don't how do it |
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| 15:40:19 | <fendor[m]> | Does GHC translate type families to data constructors? More specifically, does GHC API call a Type Family Constructor TyCon? |
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| 15:49:27 | <EvanR> | was typing something when Guest49 left |
| 15:49:34 | <EvanR> | a teachable moment in patience |
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| 16:08:50 | <fendor[m]> | only if they ever realise they would have gotten help |
| 16:09:41 | <ski> | sometimes they come back later |
| 16:09:47 | <ski> | (often with another problem) |
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| 16:23:52 | <MangoIV[m]> | Hi, do you guys know any resource about compiling markdown files containing haskell? I want the haskell to be continuously checked by the CI but at the same time being able to render the markdown to HTML. |
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| 16:24:54 | <[exa]> | MangoIV[m]: try googling "literal haskell", that's a pretty general technique on doing that |
| 16:25:28 | <MangoIV[m]> | the issue is that literate haskell and markdown syntax are conflicting. |
| 16:25:37 | <[exa]> | oh wait s/literal/literate/ :D |
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| 16:26:09 | <[exa]> | stuff like this doesn't help? https://passingcuriosity.com/2008/literate-haskell-with-markdown-syntax-hightlighting/ |
| 16:27:16 | <MangoIV[m]> | also, you don't get e.g. syntax highlighting for markdown |
| 16:27:48 | <MangoIV[m]> | [exa]: i've read that one already and it's not satisfactory/ doesn't solve any of my issues. |
| 16:29:50 | <MangoIV[m]> | you for exampled can't even use headlines, because that would conflict with the pragma syntax which apparently you don't need to escape in literate haskell... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/b948f2f38c724b509424f2103ec76aa86bf1aeca>) |
| 16:29:57 | <MangoIV[m]> | * you for exampled can't even use headlines, because that would conflict with the pragma syntax which apparently you don't need to escape in literate haskell... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/42f0a51129d2b0acdc5580314000e1092a9f7808>) |
| 16:30:06 | <MangoIV[m]> | * you for exampled can't even use headlines, because that would conflict with the pragma syntax which apparently you don't need to escape in literate haskell... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/cae802a1feee4377738f3cc176b646a12c7b0a16>) |
| 16:30:14 | <MangoIV[m]> | * you for exampled can't even use headlines, because that would conflict with the pragma syntax which apparently you don't need to escape in literate haskell... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/4551ff6584b782e119599b87f1979c3566eae7fe>) |
| 16:30:19 | <fendor[m]> | MagoIV, maybe this: https://github.com/sol/markdown-unlit/ |
| 16:30:26 | <fendor[m]> | *MangoIV. |
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| 16:31:25 | <[exa]> | MangoIV[m]: the pragma syntax should not conflict with anything if it is a proper markdown code, right? |
| 16:31:35 | <MangoIV[m]> | fendor[m]: looks _very_ promising, thank you. |
| 16:31:56 | <MangoIV[m]> | [exa]: what do you mean, ### marks h3 |
| 16:33:29 | <[exa]> | yep, and with what does it conflict? |
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| 16:35:02 | <[Leary]> | MangoIV[m]: Shouldn't the ### be outside the ```? |
| 16:35:56 | <MangoIV[m]> | [Leary]: the ````` is just because of element fuckery |
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| 16:36:32 | <[Leary]> | Might be better to use a pastebin to be clear. |
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| 16:36:48 | <MangoIV[m]> | [exa]: idk exactly, it just tells me "error: lexical error in pragma at character '#'", doesn't matter though, I will probabaly use the thing that fendor sent, .lhs is in many ways a PITA |
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| 16:37:22 | <[exa]> | MangoIV[m]: ah yes that's from lhs2TeX or something? |
| 16:37:55 | <MangoIV[m]> | no it's from `ghc` |
| 16:38:08 | <MangoIV[m]> | > module A where |
| 16:38:08 | <MangoIV[m]> | ### Test |
| 16:38:08 | <MangoIV[m]> | > data T a where |
| 16:38:10 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘data’ |
| 16:38:10 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘module’ |
| 16:38:16 | <MangoIV[m]> | this is the code |
| 16:38:32 | <MangoIV[m]> | * ```... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/7c4cbbc72956d5ef3fbfb900d29e06250294a93d>) |
| 16:41:15 | <[Leary]> | Probably, ghc transforms "> code; text" to "code {-text-}". Then if text starts with #, it expects a pragma? Sounds like a bug. |
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| 16:59:09 | <MangoIV[m]> | I don't think that's the case. (# LANGUAGE TemplateHaskell # throws the same erro |
| 16:59:12 | <MangoIV[m]> | s/erro/error) / |
| 17:00:11 | <MangoIV[m]> | <fendor[m]> "MagoIV, maybe this: https://..." <- `ghc: could not execute: markdown-unlit` :( |
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| 17:09:41 | <fendor[m]> | <MangoIV[m]> "`ghc: could not execute: markdow..." <- did you add it to your build-tool-depends section? |
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| 17:19:11 | <MangoIV[m]> | <fendor[m]> "did you add it to your build-..." <- is that necessary? also it doesn't work because `haskell.nix` is so unbelievably broken |
| 17:19:11 | <MangoIV[m]> | (or I did a stupid mistake, but I think it should be |
| 17:19:11 | <MangoIV[m]> | `build-tool-depends: markdown-unlit:markdown-unlit`, no?) |
| 17:19:25 | <fendor[m]> | yes, that should work, afaict |
| 17:19:55 | <MangoIV[m]> | yeah it looks exactly the same as the error I was guetting with public sublibraries, I guess I gotta report another bug :( |
| 17:20:53 | <fendor[m]> | Actually, in one of the examples where I have been working with markdown-unlit, this was used: `ghc-options: -pgmL markdown-unlit` |
| 17:21:31 | <MangoIV[m]> | ok, changing the cabal version from 3.0 to 3.4 made it work without build-tool-depends, :+1: |
| 17:21:41 | <MangoIV[m]> | fendor[m]: yeah, i had this already :) |
| 17:22:05 | <fendor[m]> | 3.0 is old, is haskell.nix using that? 0.o |
| 17:22:42 | <MangoIV[m]> | I mean the stanza version |
| 17:24:03 | <MangoIV[m]> | > haskell.nix using that |
| 17:24:03 | <MangoIV[m]> | it doesn't per se "use a version", it's a framework for building haskell packages with nix, so you can use whatever you wish, I think their nixpkgs currently has 3.8 if you mean that. |
| 17:24:05 | <lambdabot> | error: Variable not in scope: haskell :: b0 -> cerror: |
| 17:24:05 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: nix :: t0 -> t1 -> a -> b0 |
| 17:24:05 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant one of these: |
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| 17:38:53 | <fendor[m]> | yeah, that's what I meant. Huh, weird this makes a difference |
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| 17:46:05 | <MangoIV[m]> | is it really not possible to make ghc compile a file with a custom extension? really confusing... |
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| 19:43:28 | <dsal> | I wonder if the "beware of postgresql-simple" has something to do with it trying to send blobs in as UTF-8 and then getting angry when that doesn't work. |
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| 19:56:11 | <davean> | dolio: well thats very simple. |
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| 20:16:13 | <dolio> | Huh? |
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| 20:30:42 | <dsal> | Oh, it looks like you have to write a `ByteString` with `Binary` if you don't want it to be treated as `Text`. That feels wrong, but I can at least work around it. |
| 20:37:08 | <EvanR> | the comments on Action appears to explain the different ways the strings end up quoted and escaped |
| 20:38:14 | <EvanR> | all string-like types get encoded as ByteString before encoded as Text again for SQL, where they are reencoded for storage xD |
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| 20:40:10 | <dsal> | Yeah, it explains what they do, but I don't see a justification for `instance ToField SB.ByteString where toField = Escape` -- that surely surprises just about anyone who tries it. |
| 20:40:13 | <dsal> | (glad I had good tests on this) |
| 20:41:03 | <EvanR> | ByteString as poor man's "ascii string" maybe |
| 20:42:12 | <dsal> | I'm sure someone's code was slightly more convenient with this, but it only works right when people are doing things wrong. |
| 20:42:12 | <EvanR> | an arbitrary ByteString can't be literally inserted into SQL as is because SQL is text |
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| 20:42:43 | <EvanR> | (unless it can be and that's a different Action) |
| 20:42:51 | <geekosaur> | EvanR, nobody has any business inserting it as text |
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| 20:43:04 | <geekosaur> | they should be using ? placeholders in the text |
| 20:43:08 | <dsal> | Yeah, but I can store it in a `bytea` if I wrap it in the `Binary` type because then it uses `EscapeByteA` instead of `Escape` |
| 20:43:22 | <EvanR> | yeah you're right, so what API is it using |
| 20:44:00 | <dsal> | It *can* do the right thing, but it does the wrong thing by default. I just assumed the whole API was broken when it complained about bad UTF characters in my blob. |
| 20:44:27 | <EvanR> | since the other ToField instances use utf8 encoding to get a bytestring, that is surprising |
| 20:44:28 | <dsal> | I'm pretty sure it "carefully" generates a query and runs it. |
| 20:44:50 | <EvanR> | are you sure there's no method to use the ? way |
| 20:45:10 | <dsal> | That's the API I'm presented, but I don't know what it does with that. |
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| 20:45:16 | <EvanR> | weird |
| 20:45:47 | <geekosaur> | sounds to me like the complaint is more that it's using utf8 escaping on what should be binary data? |
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| 20:46:01 | <geekosaur> | cf. EscapeByteA vs. Escape |
| 20:46:23 | <dsal> | `result <- exec conn =<< formatQuery conn template qs` |
| 20:46:43 | <EvanR> | no it takes a ByteString and escapes it |
| 20:46:45 | <dsal> | Yeah, if I give it a `ByteString` I wouldn't expect it to assume it's text. |
| 20:46:53 | <EvanR> | could be utf8 or not |
| 20:46:57 | <EvanR> | doesn't reencode |
| 20:47:01 | <dsal> | But, AFAICT, it makes a big fat query string and sends it to postgres. |
| 20:47:10 | <EvanR> | it's not assuming it's text |
| 20:47:25 | <EvanR> | it's using ascii + escaped bytes to send binary |
| 20:48:07 | <EvanR> | been a while since I had to put on "binary data and text is the same thing" hat xD |
| 20:48:31 | <dsal> | I'm not entirely sure what complained about the bad utf8. Wrapping my `ByteString` in `Binary` made that go away, though. |
| 20:49:18 | <dsal> | Yeah, my prepared query is run via: `exec :: Connection -> ByteString -> IO PQ.Result` |
| 20:49:30 | <dsal> | That's kind of surprising. heh |
| 20:50:12 | <geekosaur> | that sounds like it's actually encoding the data into the sql command, not using ? |
| 20:50:17 | <geekosaur> | boo hiss |
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| 20:50:48 | <EvanR> | at least it's "pure", and doesn't require managing a prepared statement object? xD |
| 20:50:49 | <dsal> | Yeah… I guess it's better than expecting me to do that. |
| 20:52:10 | <EvanR> | k yeah that ToField ByteString instance doesn't seem to make sense |
| 20:52:19 | <EvanR> | where is the complain box |
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| 20:53:52 | <dsal> | I'm going to put something in it, yeah. I just figured this out. |
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| 21:00:54 | <chromoblob> | hello! i want to create an exact real calculator which acts as IDE for simple functional language, user will be able to input AST for functions and select functions to evaluate and visualize or playback as audio. question, what should i do: write a functional language compiler using LLVM or compile my language to Haskell and reuse GHC? |
| 21:01:47 | <chromoblob> | GHC doesn't JIT compile, afaik, it is probably a problem for performance |
| 21:02:21 | <chromoblob> | but i doubt that i will be able to create a compiler which creates efficient programs either, i'm not experienced in compilers |
| 21:04:54 | <geekosaur> | I'm not clear what JIT has to do with this. GHC compiles to native code already, it doesn't need JIT |
| 21:05:25 | <geekosaur> | interpreted languages like JS or VM-compiled languages like Java need JIT |
| 21:05:54 | <chromoblob> | my IDE needs JIT in order to evaluate functions that user just wrote |
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| 21:06:20 | <chromoblob> | user modifies a function, it is recompiled, and visualised or played back as audio |
| 21:06:29 | <geekosaur> | you can look at the source of ghci and see how ghci -fobject-code works |
| 21:07:12 | <geekosaur> | (normally ghci compiles to bytecode, not unlike java) |
| 21:08:32 | <chromoblob> | will bytecode be as efficient as JIT? |
| 21:08:48 | <geekosaur> | ghci is just an ordinary client of the ghc API, and in the past has been available separately from ghc although I think the most recent version of that is bitrotted (ghci-ng, which was used to test various now standard additions to ghci) |
| 21:08:53 | <geekosaur> | it will not |
| 21:09:16 | <geekosaur> | but -fobject-code causes it to compile to native code instead of bytecode |
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| 21:12:55 | <boxscape_> | If I type, in ghci, `data A = MkA`, and then `return MkA`, would you expect some output from that? Or is there some weird defaulting going on that makes it make sense that it prints nothing? |
| 21:13:02 | <boxscape_> | I would expect an error about a missing show instance for A |
| 21:13:19 | <boxscape_> | but it's been this way since at least 8.4.4 |
| 21:13:22 | <boxscape_> | so I feel like I'm missing something |
| 21:14:14 | <boxscape_> | if you run `deriving instance Show A` after that and try `return MkA` again, it *will* output "MkA" |
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| 21:16:24 | <[Leary]> | % putStrLn "test" >> pure id |
| 21:16:24 | <yahb2> | test |
| 21:16:51 | <[Leary]> | It probably wants to be able to support IO that doesn't return something printable. |
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| 21:17:57 | <dsal> | Might be good to focus on which parts of your application aren't fast enough before starting optimization. |
| 21:18:35 | <boxscape_> | [Leary] I suppose that makes sense |
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| 21:20:41 | <chromoblob> | -fobject-code uses native code gen, right? i fear that results will be less efficient than using LLVM backend (i read that math-intensive programs perform better when compiled through LLVM backend) |
| 21:22:14 | <EvanR> | return 2 shows 2 for me |
| 21:23:22 | <EvanR> | ah but not if there's no show instance |
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| 21:26:27 | <dsal> | chromoblob: How much faster do you need your program to be? |
| 21:28:24 | <chromoblob> | i want my IDE to support real-time generation of audio whenever possible. if a function can be fast enough for that, it should be that fast |
| 21:29:16 | <chromoblob> | i don't have concrete examples yet |
| 21:29:44 | <dsal> | If it doesn't work at all, then it's going to be hard to figure out where the performance problems are and how they need to be improved. |
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