Logs on 2022-11-23 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:14:47 | <Clinton[m]> | Any thoughts on this stackoverflow question will be appreciated: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/74540639/when-are-the-results-of-default-methods-in-instances-cached |
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| 01:26:07 | <Axman6> | Great question, I have no idea what the answer is, and the answer might depend on many different factors. |
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| 05:11:48 | <opticblast> | I'm trying to figure out how to get ahold of a reference to the current continuation in Polysemy.Cont. |
| 05:12:34 | <opticblast> | See subsection "Labeling Statements" here for an example using the more standard ContT: https://iamemhn.link/rom/continuations/ |
| 05:13:59 | <opticblast> | The issue is that the approach there involves feeding a continuation to itself, which is simple enough to do when a continuation is just a function, but I can't tell if it's possible with Polysemy.Cont's references. |
| 05:15:00 | <opticblast> | (Technically Polysemy.Cont exposes callCC, but I need to store these continuations in a datatype, and that is *much* easier using references.) |
| 05:15:13 | <opticblast> | The documentation for Polysemy.Cont: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-zoo-0.8.1.0/docs/Polysemy-Cont.html |
| 05:15:48 | <opticblast> | jump :: forall ref a b r. Member (Cont ref) r => ref a -> a -> Sem r b |
| 05:15:48 | <opticblast> | subst :: forall ref a b r. Member (Cont ref) r => (ref a -> Sem r b) -> (a -> Sem r b) -> Sem r b |
| 05:18:46 | <opticblast> | (For clarity, subst gives you the current continuation, but I want to refer to it *outside* of the callback I give to subst.) |
| 05:19:27 | <opticblast> | (Terrible hack: use IORefs to return it without returning it?) |
| 05:20:01 | <opticblast> | No, if it had the right type for that I could simply return it the normal way. If I want to return a `ref ()`, then the callback sees a `ref (ref ())`. |
| 05:20:28 | <opticblast> | Can the latter be transformed into the former somehow? |
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| 05:25:29 | <opticblast> | New approach! The only way to get a `ref ()` is by calling `subst` with `b ~ ()`. |
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| 05:38:01 | <opticblast> | fix \go -> subst (\cont -> subst (jump cont) (const go)) pure |
| 05:38:35 | <opticblast> | This is bizarre but it seems to work! |
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| 06:09:09 | <opticblast> | That's overcomplicated. I can just try the new approach from scratch! |
| 06:10:09 | <opticblast> | fix \go -> subst return (const go) |
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| 08:58:16 | <Athas> | Where is ~/.cabal (or equivalent) located on Windows? |
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| 08:59:52 | <mauke> | %APPDATA%\cabal |
| 09:00:12 | <mauke> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/config.html#environment-variables |
| 09:00:36 | <Athas> | Followup: can I use %APPDATA% in a GitHub actions YAML file when indicating a cache action? |
| 09:02:14 | <earthy> | uh... why do you think the github action is run on a windows machine? |
| 09:04:23 | <mauke> | Microsoft |
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| 09:15:12 | <earthy> | https://docs.github.com/en/actions/using-github-hosted-runners/about-github-hosted-runners#supported-runners-and-hardware-resources ... |
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| 09:16:53 | <[exa]> | hm so I have a recursive type, say `data AST ast = Ident String | App (AST ast) (AST ast)`. What's the currently best way to make the (AST (AST (AST (AST .....)))) type ? |
| 09:17:15 | <dminuoso> | Welcome to Fix. |
| 09:17:23 | <[exa]> | oh wait I meant `App ast ast` ofc. :] |
| 09:17:28 | <dminuoso> | % newtype Fix f = Fix { unFix :: f (Fix f) } |
| 09:17:28 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 09:18:41 | <dminuoso> | Then rewrite AST into |
| 09:18:42 | <[exa]> | I arrived at "let's solve with functors" getting `data AST f = Ident String | App (f (AST f)) (f (AST f))` but I completely failed to auto-derive at least a sensible Show for the thing |
| 09:18:51 | <dminuoso> | Yes. that. |
| 09:19:00 | <dminuoso> | or not quite |
| 09:19:02 | <dminuoso> | You want: |
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| 09:19:27 | <[exa]> | hm yeah I see Fix does it in a bit less funky |
| 09:19:29 | <[exa]> | way |
| 09:19:37 | <dminuoso> | % data ASTF a = Ident STring | App a a |
| 09:19:37 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:38:21: error: ; Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘STring’ ; Perhaps you meant ‘String’ (imported from Prelude) |
| 09:19:40 | <dminuoso> | % data ASTF a = Ident Sring | App a a |
| 09:19:40 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:40:21: error: ; Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Sring’ ; Perhaps you meant ‘String’ (imported from Prelude) |
| 09:19:43 | <dminuoso> | % data ASTF a = Ident String | App a a |
| 09:19:43 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 09:19:45 | <dminuoso> | Sorry |
| 09:19:55 | <dminuoso> | type Ast a = Fix (ASTF a) |
| 09:19:55 | <[exa]> | in turn I might not need the Show1 right |
| 09:19:57 | <dminuoso> | % type Ast a = Fix (ASTF a) |
| 09:19:57 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:44:19: error: ; • Expected kind ‘* -> *’, but ‘ASTF a’ has kind ‘*’ ; • In the first argument of ‘Fix’, namely ‘(ASTF a)’ ; In the type ‘Fix (ASTF a)’ ; In the typ... |
| 09:20:00 | <dminuoso> | Uhh |
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| 09:20:26 | <[exa]> | it's just (Fix ASTF) right? |
| 09:20:31 | <dminuoso> | Ah yes |
| 09:20:39 | <[exa]> | ok lemme try |
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| 09:20:40 | <[Leary]> | We have QuantifiedConstraints now, so you can more-or-less forget about Show1 etc. |
| 09:20:43 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: And for that you can derive Show |
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| 09:21:23 | <dminuoso> | % data ASTF a = Ident String | App a a deriving Show |
| 09:21:23 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
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| 09:21:40 | <dminuoso> | And Fix naturally has a Show1 instance |
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| 09:21:52 | <dminuoso> | Oh hold on, no you need Show1 yeah. |
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| 09:22:56 | <[exa]> | \o/ |
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| 09:25:01 | <[exa]> | oh lovely it works |
| 09:25:03 | <[exa]> | thanks! |
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| 10:17:15 | <accord> | Question |
| 10:17:26 | <accord> | Say I have a file handle in my IO |
| 10:17:43 | <accord> | How can haskell ensure I won't fetch that handle and reuse it once it's not valid |
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| 10:19:00 | <[exa]> | accord: by "fetching the handle" you mean reading its file descriptor as an integer and using it after the handle is closed? |
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| 10:19:18 | <[exa]> | (or something similar) |
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| 10:21:09 | <accord> | Something like that yes |
| 10:21:45 | <accord> | [exa]: essentially I am wondering can we have type-safe interaction with uncopyable resources that have limited time-span |
| 10:22:45 | <[exa]> | so basically you want a part of your application to have a Handle, and make sure it doesn't somehow magically leak the Handle out of the designated part, right? |
| 10:23:47 | <[exa]> | technical answer: you might make the Handle a linear type, give the user no constructor for it, and require that the handle given to your part of application is "consumed" at the end of that part |
| 10:24:10 | <[exa]> | practical answer part 1: linear types ain't very practical yet but people are working on it |
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| 10:24:40 | <accord> | [exa]: yes linear types are what my mind is circling around |
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| 10:25:38 | <[exa]> | practical answer part 2: you may use some kind of a `bracket`-like construction that opens the file/resource just for the given application part (and safely closes it after), and enforce that the type of that application part is sufficiently simple so that any resource leak needs to be made obvious for code review |
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| 10:26:26 | <[exa]> | (and shoot anyone who wants to merge code that contains unsafePerformIO) |
| 10:26:40 | <accord> | Scopes? |
| 10:26:47 | <accord> | Yep |
| 10:27:17 | <accord> | Thanks [exa], I'll explore the options |
| 10:27:20 | <[exa]> | yeah bracket is kinda like scopes in some languages (C++ has this in the { mini scopes }) |
| 10:28:17 | <[exa]> | usually you do something very simple but transparent such as: bracket (open resource) (close) $ do \resourceHandle -> ... |
| 10:28:45 | <[exa]> | (uh whoops the `do` there is misplaced, should be behind -> ) |
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| 10:31:59 | <[exa]> | accord: another more technical option is to construct some kind of custom environment monad that wraps the IO and only allows "safe" operations |
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| 10:32:15 | <accord> | [exa]: makes sense |
| 10:32:51 | <[exa]> | which is kindof popular. For example, if the part of the code is only reading bytes from the file, it doesn't need the functionality of full IO, and you can easily wrap it in something like `readResourceBytes` or so |
| 10:32:57 | <accord> | [exa]: my initial solution was about being able to wrap up the entire transaction in a safe environment of limited scope. It's indeed best when can be done. The issue is when the session is long-lived. |
| 10:33:30 | <[exa]> | do you need to release the resource in the meantime? |
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| 10:34:47 | <[exa]> | (at that point, some wrapping that dynamically frees/reacquires the resource might be the only sensible option) |
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| 10:50:44 | <mauke> | the ST monad does some fancy type trickery to ensure no resources created within can escape from runST |
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| 11:14:00 | <Athas> | earthy: because of 'runs-on: windows-2019'. |
| 11:14:03 | <moonsheep> | I'm trying to write a simple TLS client/server program, but I keep getting HandshakeFailed (Error_Protocol ("expecting server hello, got alert : [(AlertLevel_Fatal,HandshakeFailure)]",True,HandshakeFailure)) |
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| 11:14:23 | <moonsheep> | here is the server: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/jRIybDIn |
| 11:14:53 | <moonsheep> | here is the client: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/UoWDdXny |
| 11:14:58 | <moonsheep> | what am I doing wrong? |
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| 11:56:16 | <moonsheep> | oh I'm an idiot, you need a ciphersuite and credentials (which are apparently not optional) |
| 11:56:32 | <moonsheep> | for the record: check both serverSupported and serverShared |
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| 11:57:39 | <crocuta> | i'm new to haskell and its pretty intimidating |
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| 12:05:05 | <dminuoso> | Dont be intimidated. |
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| 12:18:37 | <crocuta> | ok im not thanks |
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| 12:44:03 | <__monty__> | crocuta: Anything in particular you're intimidated by? |
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| 12:44:23 | <money> | women |
| 12:45:48 | <hpc> | only be afraid of phantom types |
| 12:45:54 | <hpc> | oooOOOoOOOOOoooOOohhh! |
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| 13:07:47 | <dminuoso> | If I have a top level function `thing :: (Int -> Int) -> Int; thing f = f 10` marked as NOINLINE, Is there any way for the application of 10 to be floatet into the call site? |
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| 13:13:31 | <[exa]> | dminuoso: the documentation isn't very verbose on actual assertions that NOINLINE generates |
| 13:13:42 | <[exa]> | this might be the most helpful part https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/pragmas.html?highlight=noinline#phase-control |
| 13:14:10 | <dminuoso> | Im well aware of phase control, which part of it do you consider helpful here? |
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| 13:14:50 | <dminuoso> | What I do think, is that I might have to use OPAQUE instead. |
| 13:15:04 | <[exa]> | OPAQUE is just about name mangling no? |
| 13:15:19 | <[exa]> | (but the "opaque" name sounds much more promising, right) |
| 13:15:19 | <dminuoso> | Well name mangling is just an artifact of worker wrapper transformation. |
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| 13:15:52 | <dminuoso> | And OPAQUE also blocks specialization |
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| 13:16:22 | <dminuoso> | Let me rephrase, perhaps. |
| 13:17:33 | <dminuoso> | Im staring at something like `runIt :: forall r. (Proxy# () -> (# Proxy #(), r #)) -> r = runIt f = f proxy#` |
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| 13:54:24 | <dminuoso> | I guess this is more of a ghc question anyway |
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| 14:06:24 | <kaol> | Blatant Haskell job advertising: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/z2pupj/ksf_media_ab_hiring_senior_developer_in_helsinki/ |
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| 14:08:36 | <dminuoso> | kaol: Feel free to put it out on the haskell-cafe mailing list as well |
| 14:10:08 | <kaol> | Sure. |
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| 14:40:41 | <oak-> | Too bad I just took a new job, would have been interested |
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| 16:55:35 | <LemanR66> | Hey all, anyone mind helping with setup troubleshooting? I am on gentoo system and I believe I set up everything correctly. However on a ghci prompt I test 2 + 3 == 5 , I get back TRUE. Then I do something like TRUE == TRUE and get back error: Data constructor not in scope: TRUE. Seems like I'm missing something? |
| 16:57:09 | <xerox> | LemanR66: it is True not TRUE |
| 16:57:20 | <xerox> | @src Bool |
| 16:57:20 | <lambdabot> | data Bool = False | True deriving (Eq, Ord) |
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| 16:58:42 | <c_wraith> | I find it very odd that you get back TRUE |
| 16:58:49 | <LemanR66> | ah, seems I was following a bad (or not so good) tutorial (they had TRUE == TRUE). Or maybe their setup is different *shrugs* but thanks all. |
| 16:58:53 | <c_wraith> | Is your terminal doing case-folding? |
| 16:59:18 | <LemanR66> | c_wraith I just looked back and the output was True not TRUE so sorry all. I guess this was a non-issue |
| 17:00:24 | <LemanR66> | nope, just lack of sleep + tutorial using caps when they shouldn't making me think that's how it was supposed to look (my brain not realizing the other output didn't have caps). |
| 17:00:25 | <xerox> | no worries |
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| 22:00:39 | <roconnor> | sclv: I think the cabal haddock documentation has a problem where I get links to internal modules that are hard coded to the dist-newstyle/build directory. Maybe due to a combination of using internal libraries and reexported-modules. |
| 22:01:33 | <sclv> | likely. idk who built the docs a |
| 22:01:36 | <sclv> | or how |
| 22:02:06 | <roconnor> | i guess using reexported modules isn't common. |
| 22:02:42 | <sclv> | oh wait they’re autobuilt. if you mean on hackage? |
| 22:03:03 | <roconnor> | using cabal haddock on my project. |
| 22:03:13 | <hippoid> | hi all, trying to use stack on nixos 22.05. i am using the nixos-22.05 channel. when i try to do `stack new helloworld new-template`, i get an 'error: attribute 'ghc925' missing`. how to fix? |
| 22:04:24 | <sclv> | oh! yeah i think cabal haddock probably doesn’t know how to seal with internal libs well — wonder if haddock proper does even without cabal? maybe it doesn’t even make sense to ask that |
| 22:05:58 | <roconnor> | I think with Setup.hs I just didn't have links to internal modules. Though the Setup.hs was full of other even moreserious problems on top of that. |
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| 22:08:45 | <sclv> | roconnor: i mean invoking haddock by hand? thats probably even worse… |
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| 22:12:47 | <roconnor> | ha ha. yikes. |
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| 23:58:18 | <jackdk> | hippoid: stack is probably using the snapshot from its default template to try and pull GHC 9.2.5 from nixpkgs, which doesn't exist in your nixpkgs channel. My personal experience is that stack is no longer compelling these days (cabal is much better than it was, and nix does reproducibility better), however, you might be able to pass a specific LTS snapshot to `stack new` |
| 23:59:18 | <jackdk> | hippoid: Try `nix eval --impure --expr 'builtins.attrNames (import <nixpkgs> {}).haskell.packages'` to get the set of haskell versions provided by your current nixpkgs channel |
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| 23:59:56 | <jackdk> | hippoid: If that command doesn't work (and you don't want to turn on `experimental-features = nix-command`), `nix-instantiate --eval -E 'builtins.attrNames (import <nixpkgs> {}).haskell.packages'` should be equivalent |
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