Logs on 2022-11-27 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:42:00 | <LemanR> | me working out this next problem: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTI6pEGR3YGV4YlAOexmMGL-lrGwhwl2-AUjQ&usqp=CAU |
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| 00:49:27 | <bobcat> | ? |
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| 00:50:44 | <LemanR> | working out exerism.org haskell exercises |
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| 02:19:00 | <maerwald> | [exa]: https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-hs/issues/697 feel free to provide a PR |
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| 04:58:27 | <zer3f> | Hello all, I am working on my self project and I need some help in writing handler functions of yesod,from the persistent functions.A detailed overview of the problem is here. |
| 04:58:28 | <zer3f> | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/74542317/how-to-write-yesod-handler-funtions-for-the-funtions-written-using-persistent-li |
| 05:00:33 | <zer3f> | In a brief,i need to write handler functions by first checking if user exists in database,if exists return msg,else add. Please take a look at it.. |
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| 10:14:53 | <xilo> | hi, begginer question. There are two similar type classes Eq and Ord, let say my function is fun x y = if (x < y) then True else False, how do comiler knows what typeclass to infere? I assume it has to be the most generic one, so which one it is and why? |
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| 10:16:55 | <mauke> | xilo: they're not really that similar |
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| 10:17:09 | <mauke> | for your example, the compiler looks at the type of < |
| 10:17:13 | <mauke> | :t (<) |
| 10:17:15 | <lambdabot> | Ord a => a -> a -> Bool |
| 10:17:24 | <mauke> | type says "Ord a", so that's what it is |
| 10:20:13 | <xilo> | they are not that similar, ok I'll have to look more carefully then ty! |
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| 10:21:08 | <xilo> | oh yes, I see now |
| 10:21:15 | <mauke> | well, Eq is basically class Eq a where { (==) :: a -> a -> Bool } and Ord is like class (Eq a) => Ord a where { (<) :: a -> a -> Bool }, plus some extra methods |
| 10:21:44 | <xilo> | yep cool! thanks again |
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| 10:43:57 | <kora9> | geekosaur: XMonad.Actions.TagWindow is *awesome*. I'm so happy using it :) |
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| 11:38:59 | <myme> | I'd like to create a stable mkGen random seed from some program input. Thinking I need some: `Digest SHA1 -> Int` or similar magic sauce, but unsure how to approach that. |
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| 11:58:49 | <pavonia> | myme: You could fold the SHA-1 result into an Int e.g. by chunking the SHA-1 result into 64-bit blocks and xor-ing them |
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| 12:22:11 | <[exa]> | SHA1 -> Int should be okay but PLEASE do not xor hash pieces together; better simply cut out the required number of bytes (from SHA2/256 which have better properties in that) |
| 12:22:33 | <[exa]> | myme: btw if you don't want external people to break your RNG, add a secret salt to the beginning of the input before hashing it |
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| 12:26:05 | <myme> | [exa]: Most definitely, in the general case. |
| 12:26:32 | <myme> | [exa]: This random generator will only be used to shuffle a list of people (my family) so that the juxtaposed entries in the list are whom will be giving each other presents. |
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| 12:29:25 | <myme> | It's only a cute little script where I want a stable draw unless the list of family members change (god forbid). |
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| 12:31:31 | <[exa]> | ah ok, if you want stability and some kind of fairness, stable word + any irreversible hash to integer is pretty good |
| 12:35:30 | <pavonia> | [exa]: What is wrong with xor-ing? |
| 12:37:20 | <[exa]> | technically not much, but for cryptanalysis it allows easier exploitation of whatever correlations in the hash output that are usually super hard to analyze and thus very scary |
| 12:37:53 | <[exa]> | cutting out an integer isn't much better in the generic case, but some hash functions have (much simpler) properties that make it valid |
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| 13:11:43 | <myme> | [exa]: I might just start off by cutting out the required number of bytes. Thanks! |
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| 16:10:01 | <elevenkb> | what's the best place to look for haskell jobs? |
| 16:10:45 | <Rembane> | elevenkb: The Haskell Weekly newsletter usually has some in each newsletter |
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| 16:12:19 | <elevenkb> | Rembane: thanks. |
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| 16:15:20 | <Rembane> | elevenkb: There are more sources too, but I can't remember any right now. :) |
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| 16:30:00 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | i've been waiting a while for the latest ghc to come to ghcup because i'm on an m1 -- is there a typical delay i can expect for this? |
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| 16:30:36 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | looks like 9.2.5 was released on nov 7 and it's now nov 27 |
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| 16:33:41 | <monochrom> | On x86-64 ghcup had 9.2.5 almost immediately. |
| 16:33:42 | <n0st0m0> | just started using Haskell. Is there a concensus on the best IDE to use for development? |
| 16:33:55 | <monochrom> | So I think the delay is m1-specific. |
| 16:34:03 | <Franciman> | n0st0m0: you may try vscode and the hls plugin |
| 16:34:21 | <Franciman> | not sure what's the best ide, though, there were a few like leksah a lot of time ago |
| 16:34:22 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | n0st0m0: we usually just cat echo to a file and retype the entire file when we need to edit something |
| 16:34:29 | <monochrom> | There are two consensi. vscode or no IDE at all. |
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| 16:34:57 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | n0st0m0: because haskell has such a great type system, code is almost always correct and seldom needs to be re-written |
| 16:35:25 | <n0st0m0> | Thanks. I started with that. I figured VS Code was in the running. I figured no IDE was a popular approach as well. |
| 16:37:34 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | n0st0m0: haskell users almost always write their own IDE with template haskell and self-written custom pragmas |
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| 16:38:10 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | monochrom: yeah so idk what the hold up is on m1 |
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| 17:31:33 | <Guest8715> | @pl \f g x y -> f (x ++ g x) (g y) |
| 17:31:33 | <lambdabot> | join . ((flip . ((.) .)) .) . (. ap (++)) . (.) |
| 17:32:38 | <Guest8715> | @pl foobar :: [Integer] -> Integer |
| 17:32:38 | <lambdabot> | (line 1, column 23): |
| 17:32:38 | <lambdabot> | unexpected '>' |
| 17:32:39 | <Guest8715> | foobar [] = 0 |
| 17:32:39 | <lambdabot> | expecting operator |
| 17:32:39 | <Guest8715> | foobar (x:xs) |
| 17:32:40 | <Guest8715> | | x > 3 = (7*x + 2) + foobar xs |
| 17:32:40 | <Guest8715> | | otherwise = foobar xs |
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| 17:40:35 | <mauke> | @pl sum . map (\x -> 7*x + 2) . filter (> 3) |
| 17:40:35 | <lambdabot> | sum . map ((2 +) . (7 *)) . filter (> 3) |
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| 18:45:00 | <LemanR> | Hey all, I'm struggling with this exercism.org problem, the ValentinesDay exercise. Here is what I have atm https://dpaste.com/5LAVNZVFS , is this correct so far? The function part (how to use these) is what I am struggling with the most so I want to see if I have it correct before the function implementation (because if the first part is right |
| 18:45:00 | <LemanR> | then I can focus on getting the functions correct). |
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| 18:48:54 | <LemanR> | I don't wast to check other solutions cause I won't learn anything doing that. Instead I'm reading and studying until I understand how I'm supposed to do this. |
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| 18:49:53 | <LemanR> | instructions, idk if you have to be logged in to see it though https://exercism.org/tracks/haskell/exercises/valentines-day |
| 18:50:03 | <monochrom> | Use pattern matching? |
| 18:50:28 | <LemanR> | I'm tried but keep messing up so I wanted to see if I got everything up to that point right. |
| 18:50:37 | <LemanR> | *I've tried |
| 18:51:30 | <monochrom> | Well with this current state of code, you don't need a human to answer, the computer is going to say "no syntax error or type error" and that's all any human could say anyway. |
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| 18:53:59 | <LemanR> | I'm going to take this as nothing wrong with the setup (before the actual function) so I'll keep reading pattern matching and specifically those involved with algebraic data types. I think once I get it I'm gonna feel so dumb :p |
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| 19:01:04 | <mauke> | Resturant is misspelled, but apart from that ... |
| 19:01:25 | <monochrom> | oh haha |
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| 19:05:14 | <LemanR> | thanks for the catch there |
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| 19:11:00 | <kaol> | I messed around a bit with profunctors. Fun stuff, it's like fst and snd but for functions. lmap for applying some a -> b on the input and rmap for doing the same to output. Applying a function to the second variable of a 2-ary function? Why rmap . lmap of course. |
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| 19:27:12 | <LemanR> | so.....close... doing the walk part which needs <, >, <= etc operators |
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| 19:30:43 | <monochrom> | Just write some extra if-then-else. |
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| 19:30:52 | <bluephones> | When should I use Int over Integer? |
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| 19:31:15 | <monochrom> | You can also go fancy and use guard syntax. But if-then-else doesn't need another afternoon of reading. |
| 19:32:12 | <LemanR> | I don't mind how long it takes to write code I like to read. This is joy learning rather than for school or anything like that. |
| 19:33:04 | <geekosaur> | bluephones, when most of the things you';re doing want (or provide: see for example `length`) Int instead of Integer, or when performance matters |
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| 19:33:59 | <geekosaur> | Integer is preferred if you might go beyond the bounds if Int |
| 19:34:48 | <geekosaur> | it's slower though since there's a bounds check involved in many cases (the implementation tries to use an Int underneath if it'll fit) and if it won'[t fit switches to gmp which can be much slower |
| 19:35:48 | <LemanR> | CS question, if someone needs to calculate an Int value however the coding language doesn't provide a Int large enough for the value you need to calculate, how is that resolved or what would a programmer do in such a case? |
| 19:35:57 | <LemanR> | curiosity question lol |
| 19:36:52 | <mauke> | if it's for an online competition or similar, the often ask for HUGE_RESULT `mod` SOME_CONSTANT, and there is clever math you can do to never actually calculate HUGE_RESULT |
| 19:37:55 | <mauke> | if you need to use numbers that exceed all built-in types, you have to switch to a library that implements them (such as libgmp) |
| 19:38:03 | <mauke> | or write the algorithms yourself |
| 19:38:43 | <LemanR> | I'll have to check it out to see what that looks like later. |
| 19:39:20 | <LemanR> | oh nvm, you're saying you do some mathematics to have some abstract equivalent to the value you need |
| 19:39:45 | <fpnoob> | On a _really_ low level, the CPU provides a flag indicating if an operation went out of bounds. |
| 19:39:53 | <fpnoob> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overflow_flag |
| 19:40:41 | <fpnoob> | So (oversimplifying a bit) if you have 8-bit arithmetic, and you're adding 0xFF + 0x01, the result will be 0x00, and the overflow flag will be on. |
| 19:46:09 | <mauke> | as an example of the first case, let's say the problem boils down to computing 3^100, but the description says to output the result modulo 13337 |
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| 19:46:35 | <mauke> | > 3 ^ 100 `mod` 13337 |
| 19:46:37 | <lambdabot> | 9195 |
| 19:46:56 | <mauke> | that's nice if your language supports unbounded integers, but if you're limited to Int and do it the naive way ... |
| 19:47:02 | <mauke> | > (3 :: Int) ^ 100 `mod` 13337 |
| 19:47:04 | <lambdabot> | 8634 |
| 19:47:12 | <LemanR> | so close :p https://dpaste.com/FC6HAGBUP apparently it doesn't like the <= 5 part |
| 19:47:12 | <mauke> | ... you just get nonsense |
| 19:48:25 | <mauke> | LemanR: ah, that's slightly confused. the pattern shouldn't be 'Walk Int' but 'Walk n' (and then n will be a variable containing the associated value) |
| 19:48:26 | <geekosaur> | LemanR, you can't chain operations like that. And that's just the syntactic part |
| 19:48:34 | <mauke> | and then you can check n < 3, etc |
| 19:48:38 | <geekosaur> | the rest is what mauke just said |
| 19:49:04 | <geekosaur> | n >= 3 && n <= 5 |
| 19:49:39 | <geekosaur> | otherwise it'd be hard to support a pattern like Foo m n | m >= 3 && n <= 5 = ... |
| 19:50:29 | <LemanR> | totally forgot whenever you do && or || etc you need to retype the variable |
| 19:53:03 | <mauke> | > let modmul n a b = (a * b) `mod` n; modpow n a b = foldl' (modmul n) 1 (replicate b a) in modpow 13337 (3 :: Int) 100 |
| 19:53:05 | <lambdabot> | 9195 |
| 19:54:31 | <mauke> | LemanR: btw, in 'Movie otherwise', you're not using the built-in 'otherwise' |
| 19:54:45 | <mauke> | that pattern defines a new local variable called 'otherwise' (which is then never used) |
| 19:55:09 | <LemanR> | I realized that when I spelt otherwise wrong (othervise) and it went through anyway lol i just kept that cause. |
| 19:55:17 | <mauke> | the idiomatic way to write that is 'Movie _' |
| 19:55:54 | <mauke> | _ is like a placeholder for a variable, but it doesn't actually define a name (so you can use it multiple times in the same pattern) |
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| 20:08:08 | <dsal> | @src otherwise |
| 20:08:08 | <lambdabot> | otherwise = True |
| 20:08:53 | <LemanR> | just confused on why othervise, otherwise, bob, etc does work after Movie, is it because I never specify what Genre construct needs to be? |
| 20:09:40 | <LemanR> | nvm Genre is the argument to construct Movie |
| 20:10:47 | <geekosaur> | you can use anything there and it will create a new local binding. if you never use that then it's irrelevant what you call it |
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| 20:11:57 | <mauke> | > let foo othermumble = 42 in foo "hello" |
| 20:11:59 | <lambdabot> | 42 |
| 20:12:26 | <mauke> | the 'foo' function ignores its argument, so it doesn't matter what its name is |
| 20:13:49 | <LemanR> | is that more to do with that it's lazy eval (don't need it don't eval) or more so that when you create a function say called func with argument x, when you use it x can be replaced with anything I.E func bobo is valid |
| 20:14:17 | <LemanR> | *more so the reasoning is the same as when you create a function |
| 20:14:53 | <mauke> | it's the latter |
| 20:15:13 | <mauke> | pattern matching (and function parameters) work the same way in languages without lazy evaluation |
| 20:15:30 | <LemanR> | understood, thanks for the clarity. |
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| 21:12:28 | <Inst_> | why does everyone hate stack? |
| 21:12:35 | <Inst_> | here's a proposal, one, it takes too long to build, second |
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| 21:12:47 | <Inst_> | i have libs exposed and it can't see it |
| 21:14:10 | <dsal> | I can't get off stack. I'm sure it's possible, but all the things I've tried have been harder. |
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| 21:17:34 | <shapr> | dsal: I'd like to hear about that |
| 21:17:43 | <shapr> | I don't have the same experience, but would like to understand the experience of others |
| 21:20:13 | <dsal> | I build simple projects with stack, add some deps in package.yaml and maybe a stack.yaml thing. It'll spit out a .cabal file, but it does something fancy that makes it so that I can't build without stack. |
| 21:20:21 | <dsal> | A simple example, I think, is https://github.com/dustin/s3up |
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| 21:20:40 | <dsal> | It uses an unreleased amazonka and stack knows how to wire that up, but *I* don't know how to wire that up. |
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| 21:43:03 | <verd> | how do i determine whether a function with a given type signature can be total? |
| 21:43:25 | <monochrom> | Cannot. |
| 21:45:50 | <EvanR> | how do you know what verd can do |
| 21:45:59 | <monochrom> | Oh haha. |
| 21:46:00 | <hpc> | math |
| 21:46:16 | <[exa]> | verd: unless you either 1] have a function definition that is sufficiently simple to infer totality 2] the function domain is finite and you're lucky enough that all your attempts to evaluate it totally do not diverge, you can't say much. |
| 21:46:32 | <mauke> | couldBeTotal _ = True |
| 21:46:46 | <monochrom> | How do I determine whether a person with a given IRC nick can determine whether a function can be total? >:) |
| 21:47:09 | <Rembane> | monochrom: By using a quantum computer! :D |
| 21:47:32 | <monochrom> | No no no, we need dependently typed IRC nicks! |
| 21:47:39 | <geekosaur> | which only changes couldBeTotal to a supermpsition of True and False |
| 21:47:47 | <geekosaur> | *superposition |
| 21:48:10 | <Rembane> | TotalRembane :: _|_ |
| 21:48:18 | <monochrom> | OK, I can get behind dependently typed quantum computing. :) |
| 21:48:33 | <[exa]> | {-# LANGUAGE NicksInNicks #-} |
| 21:48:50 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 21:48:52 | <[exa]> | irc just got better |
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| 21:49:42 | <mauke> | [[[exa]]] |
| 21:50:05 | <juri_> | hey, what's the in thing for writing android apps in haskell? |
| 21:52:09 | <[exa]> | mauke: OH YOU. :D |
| 21:52:17 | <[exa]> | juri_: was it obelisk? |
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| 21:55:36 | <juri_> | [exa]: it's clearly not eta... |
| 21:56:10 | <juri_> | I've got a personal project i want to do on android, but can't imagine leaving haskell behind. |
| 21:56:25 | <juri_> | and it's mostly networking. wheee. |
| 21:56:54 | <[exa]> | networking on android is........sanely possible? |
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| 21:57:34 | <Hecate> | you'd have to use the JNI with Kotlin? |
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| 21:57:37 | <Hecate> | I… guess? |
| 21:58:04 | <[exa]> | (I didn't check out the APIs though but I can imagine what can happen on a java-ish platform that should be firewalled) |
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| 22:13:02 | <EvanR> | verd, since you can encode arbitrary logic in a function type, automatically determining if it's total would be like leibniz's machine/algorithm to solve any problem |
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| 22:15:34 | <c_wraith> | I mean, you can detect certain type signatures that *can't* be total. |
| 22:15:56 | <c_wraith> | you know for sure that `foo :: a' isn't total |
| 22:16:34 | <c_wraith> | and it's worth being able to recognize that. |
| 22:17:11 | <c_wraith> | Even though it tells you nothing about the converse. `bar :: a -> a' might be total, but there's no guarantee |
| 22:18:08 | <EvanR> | how is a even eligible for the question it might not even be a function |
| 22:18:23 | <mauke> | () -> a |
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| 22:18:58 | <EvanR> | that'll do it |
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| 22:29:07 | <Guest60> | Hi, I've got a list of parsed JSON ASTs from the Data.Yaml package and I'm writing a function to create a merge strategy. How would I union a `Yaml.Object`? |
| 22:32:18 | <c_wraith> | generally you would walk both, adding all the key-value pairs that are in one but not the other, then deciding on a merge rule for the keys that have values in both |
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| 22:32:46 | <c_wraith> | You might choose rules like "take the left option", "take the right option", or "do some value merge logic" |
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| 22:38:39 | <Guest60> | what kind of function would I use to walk them? For a general hashmap I would go with UnionWith where the conflict would call recursively. I'm not sure how I can do that with this `Yaml.Object` type |
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| 22:40:12 | <c_wraith> | It's almost certainly an unordered map underneath, just needing you to take off a newtype wrapper. But I can't confirm that without knowing what package you're using. |
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| 22:41:00 | <Guest60> | I'm using `Data.Yaml` |
| 22:41:14 | <c_wraith> | that's a module, not a package. module names are not unique |
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| 22:41:22 | <c_wraith> | (or at least, they don't need to be unique) |
| 22:41:36 | <Guest60> | oh `yaml` |
| 22:41:58 | <Guest60> | Seems to be using `Data.Aeson.KeyMap` underneath |
| 22:42:11 | <Guest60> | `type Object = KeyMap Value` |
| 22:42:29 | <c_wraith> | Oh, right, aeson made that type opaque so they could change between backing types with a flag. |
| 22:43:07 | <c_wraith> | that was their mitigation for hash flooding. blech. |
| 22:43:54 | <c_wraith> | but they provide a SemiAlign instance. You can use that. |
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| 22:44:27 | <c_wraith> | or SemiAlignWithIndex, if you want access to the key |
| 22:44:58 | <Guest60> | so do I need to add a dependency on aeson to manipulate these objects as well as yaml which I used for the parsing? |
| 22:45:56 | <c_wraith> | If you want to use things only exported by aeson, yes. But it's already a dependency of yaml, so it's not adding something new to the build plan, just making more stuff available to import. |
| 22:46:14 | <c_wraith> | But you can use something like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/semialign-1.2.0.1/docs/Data-Semialign-Indexed.html#v:ialignWith without importing aeson |
| 22:46:42 | <c_wraith> | though that would require you to expose the `semialign' and `these' packages |
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| 22:47:57 | <Guest60> | alright, I'll have a look at the aeson stuff. Main concern was adding dependencies |
| 22:47:59 | <c_wraith> | anyway, ialignWith is definitely the tool you'd want for merging |
| 22:48:19 | <c_wraith> | well. given the instances exported, they're already dependencies. It's just a question of whether they're exposed or hidden |
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| 22:50:51 | <jackdk> | You could also use `Data.Aeson.KeyMap.toMap` since by default new versions use an ordered map and not a hashmap by default |
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| 22:51:25 | <jackdk> | Which then gives you access to the functions in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers/docs/Data-Map-Merge-Strict.html |
| 22:53:18 | <Guest60> | I used the `unionWith` for aeson KeyMap which worked nicely |
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| 23:13:45 | → | Guest30 joins (~Guest30@59-102-33-166.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:13:54 | <Guest30> | Hi |
| 23:14:38 | <Guest30> | I am getting the following error Variable not in scope: (+) :: Int -> Int -> Int |
| 23:14:38 | <Guest30> | | |
| 23:14:39 | <Guest30> | 29 | sum a b = a + b |
| 23:14:39 | <Guest30> | | ^ |
| 23:14:40 | <Guest30> | Failed, no modules loaded. |
| 23:14:49 | <Guest30> | Any ideas? |
| 23:15:08 | × | ChaiTRex quits (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:15:13 | <Hecate> | did you somehow prevent the Prelude from being imported? |
| 23:15:14 | <Guest30> | Source code is sum :: Int -> Int -> Int |
| 23:15:15 | <Guest30> | sum a b = a + b |
| 23:15:30 | <Hecate> | can you try with "import Prelude" at the top of your file after the module name? |
| 23:15:31 | <Guest30> | Do I have to import Prelude |
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| 23:15:37 | <Hecate> | no you shouldn't have to do it |
| 23:15:48 | <c_wraith> | funny things can happen if your project has a module named Prelude in it |
| 23:15:55 | <Hecate> | aye |
| 23:15:58 | <Hecate> | that too |
| 23:16:02 | <c_wraith> | alternatively you might have a line like "import Prelude ()" |
| 23:16:25 | <c_wraith> | As yet another alternative.. If you're using the GHC api, it doesn't import Prelude by default |
| 23:17:00 | <Guest30> | Awsome |
| 23:17:05 | <Guest30> | what is Prelude? |
| 23:17:16 | <c_wraith> | It's just a module that is imported by default |
| 23:17:20 | <monochrom> | Preloaded library stuff. |
| 23:17:30 | <Guest30> | It didn't get imported by Default |
| 23:17:41 | <Guest30> | I had to put it in the import Definition |
| 23:17:59 | <c_wraith> | it gets imported by default unless you're using the GHC api (or things that wrap it, like hint) |
| 23:18:07 | <monochrom> | Is this "Definition" something your prof dictates and restricts you to? |
| 23:18:09 | <Guest30> | I am in Ghci |
| 23:18:23 | <Guest30> | Loading a file using :h |
| 23:18:31 | <Guest30> | :l |
| 23:18:34 | <Guest30> | I mean |
| 23:18:38 | <c_wraith> | do you have a .ghci file that includes something like -XNoImplicitPrelude ? |
| 23:18:39 | <Guest30> | Loading a file |
| 23:18:45 | <monochrom> | Frankly and bluntly if I can't reproduce it I can't diagnose it. And I refuse to play guessing games like other people love it. |
| 23:18:53 | <Guest30> | {-# LANGUAGE NoImplicitPrelude #-} |
| 23:18:56 | <Guest30> | THat would do it |
| 23:19:39 | <c_wraith> | monochrom: yes, often problems have a small enough causal space that you can enumerate it |
| 23:20:32 | <c_wraith> | Guest30: I'd get rid of that language pragma. If you don't know why you need it, you don't need it. |
| 23:20:51 | <Guest30> | I just copied the code from somewhere |
| 23:21:04 | <Guest30> | Wasn't sure what it idid |
| 23:21:09 | <Guest30> | Now I do |
| 23:21:14 | <monochrom> | No, we need to train querents to stop expecting miraculous gurus and telepathy --- anti-theses to STEM. |
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| 23:22:17 | <monochrom> | BTW that's why there is a great monad tutorial that I decided not to recommend, because it also does NoImplicitPrelude. |
| 23:22:28 | <monochrom> | (and other factors) |
| 23:22:48 | <c_wraith> | I'd never recommend anything with NoImplicitPrelude to a beginner. It's a pretty advanced feature. |
| 23:23:06 | <Guest30> | Ok |
| 23:24:13 | <c_wraith> | It does so much more subtle stuff than merely not importing Prelude by default. In rare occasions, that might be what you want, but the value is in very narrow cases of advanced DSL use. |
| 23:24:52 | <monochrom> | It's for very specialized library internals, yeah. |
| 23:25:47 | <monochrom> | Anything you show to a beginner you need to ask yourself "is this idiomatic code?" because beginners just assumes it. |
| 23:25:49 | <Guest30> | Thanks for the help. |
| 23:25:50 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@86-86-29-250.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 23:26:22 | <monochrom> | or rather, beginners actually learn from everything you show. |
| 23:26:36 | <monochrom> | Bloggers do not take that responsibility seriously. |
| 23:26:43 | <c_wraith> | that's a good way to state it |
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| 23:42:23 | <Guest30> | Given my implementation below -- 3. Find the K'th element of a list. The first element in the list is number 1. |
| 23:42:23 | <Guest30> | tryGetElementAt :: [a] -> Int -> Maybe a |
| 23:42:24 | <Guest30> | tryGetElementAt (x:_) 1 = Just x |
| 23:42:24 | <Guest30> | tryGetElementAt [] _ = Nothing |
| 23:42:25 | <Guest30> | tryGetElementAt (_:xs) k |
| 23:42:25 | <Guest30> | | k < 1 = Nothing |
| 23:42:26 | <Guest30> | | otherwise = tryGetElementAt xs (k - 1) |
| 23:46:34 | <Guest30> | Why do I get these warning messages |
| 23:46:36 | <Guest30> | Defined but not used: `tryGetElementAt' |
| 23:46:37 | <Guest30> | | |
| 23:46:37 | <Guest30> | 22 | tryGetElementAt (x:_) 1 = Just x |
| 23:46:38 | <Guest30> | | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 23:47:28 | <jackdk> | Can you put your entire file into a pastebin? I suspect the module header is the culprit. @where paste |
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| 23:47:32 | <Guest30> | It clearly gets used becase if if it didn't it would be fail |
| 23:47:37 | <jackdk> | @where paste |
| 23:47:37 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 23:48:41 | <Guest30> | Done |
| 23:48:54 | <jackdk> | Link? |
| 23:49:31 | <Axman6> | ... |
| 23:49:45 | <Axman6> | Guest30: uoi have to give us the link |
| 23:49:48 | <Axman6> | you* |
| 23:49:52 | <Guest30> | I think it works now |
| 23:50:02 | <Guest30> | The error message is missleading |
| 23:50:19 | <Guest30> | The error was that I didn't include tryGetElementAt |
| 23:50:26 | <Guest30> | And also I had to remove the imports |
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| 23:51:08 | <jackdk> | GHC will consider a definition "used" only if it is exported by the module, or used by a function exported from the module. |
| 23:51:23 | <Axman6> | Guest30: You know how when you go to the mechanic, you just say "My car is broken, can you fix it?" And the mechanic magically knows you need a net alternator and timing belt? |
| 23:51:27 | <Axman6> | No? |
| 23:52:18 | <Axman6> | Because that never happens, if you need help, you need to explain what is going on - we're happy to help you but we need to see a) _all_ the code and b) the actual error |
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| 23:54:06 | <Guest30> | Thanks, I will try to debug it more next time. Also if I have isse I will put the source code and warning message |
| 23:54:08 | <monochrom> | I bought a headphone. I was unlucky, got a defective unit. I went back to the store but I didn't just say "no workie". |
| 23:54:40 | <monochrom> | I specifically said "left side is dead", and most importantly, I brought the headphone and let the staff test it for themselves. |
| 23:55:02 | <monochrom> | If they can't reproduce it, it didn't happen. Simple as that. |
| 23:55:15 | <monochrom> | Or at least, if I can't reproduce it. |
| 23:56:31 | <Axman6> | learning how to ask for help is a skill of its own, and worth learning. "X is broken, how do I fix it" is impossible to answer, "I'm trying to do Y, and I have this code https://... I'm getting the error in the comment in that paste, I've tried Z Q and W and I can't get it to work" will help us narrow down the issue, and not make everyone think you're asking us to do your work for you, particularly since this is clearly homework/coursework |
| 23:56:31 | <monochrom> | Programmers, of all people, are supposed to know this the hard way. |
| 23:57:03 | <monochrom> | A non-programmer can legit find it counterintuitive. I don't blame them. |
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| 23:57:26 | <jackdk> | Few words fill me with more dead than "intermittent fault", except perhaps "important update to your $FOO account" |
| 23:57:33 | <monochrom> | Programmers? They are the receiving end of that. They have already had clients saying unspecific vague things. |
| 23:57:47 | <monochrom> | They already know it doesn't work that way. |
| 23:58:34 | <monochrom> | Oh uh "important update to your $FOO account" in emails implies phishing, that's easy, "junk" button. :) |
| 23:59:08 | <EvanR> | it's not working sometimes, no other information, and it's currently working = problem doesn't exist in some sense xD |
| 23:59:10 | <Axman6> | "We take the security of our customer's data very seriously" |
| 23:59:34 | <EvanR> | in the same realm as, this is totally broken but if you know no user ever triggers the error, it's not broken |
| 23:59:45 | <jackdk> | good one Axman6 - that almost always heralds disaster |
All times are in UTC on 2022-11-27.