Logs on 2022-12-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:39:15 | <dsal> | I feel like every time I use parMap I have to learn how to use parMap again. |
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| 00:46:44 | <glguy> | dsal: maybe try learning it in parallel with trying to use it? |
| 00:46:52 | <dsal> | heh. |
| 00:47:08 | <dsal> | One of my runs finished in 6s. One in like, 13s. The rest aren't sparking. |
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| 01:03:40 | <dsal> | Alright… it's not sparking anymore. How do I make it spark harder? |
| 01:05:46 | <dsal> | Ah. I finally banged hard enough, I think. |
| 01:06:45 | <dsal> | Nope. Just a fluke. Ran it again and it didn't go. |
| 01:08:48 | <dsal> | SPARKS: 26410527 (11799 converted, 97 overflowed, 0 dud, 24783085 GC'd, 1607354 fizzled) |
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| 01:16:24 | <mauke> | this does not spark joy |
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| 01:35:49 | <dsal> | It's kind of random. Sometimes 40s. Sometimes 30s. Sometimes 6s. Sometimes 18s. |
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| 01:53:01 | <iqubic> | dsal: I don't know how tries work well enough to make the instance for (HasTrie a) => HasTrie (Set a) |
| 01:53:45 | <dsal> | It's probably easier than spark voodoo. :) |
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| 01:56:15 | <iqubic> | What's spark voodoo? |
| 01:56:46 | <iqubic> | Anyways, if you figure out how to make this work, I could speed up my Advent Day16 code quite a bit |
| 01:57:10 | <iqubic> | But for now, I need dinner |
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| 02:13:10 | <dsal> | iqubic: I'm doing parMap in last night's part 2 and it's sometimes much faster. But often it just doesn't run the sparks in parallel and it's not faster. |
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| 02:14:06 | <dsal> | It's not like those things that are obviously right and work or obviously wrong and don't work. Just sometimes it decides to do the thing I want and sometimes it doesn't with no code changes. But it'll do that *while* I'm changing code and make me think I've figured it out, but then doesn't work on a reinvocation. |
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| 02:34:21 | <sm1> | damp weather |
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| 02:41:12 | <mauke> | I must be doing something very wrong. I'm currently trying to solve AoC day 15 part 2, and it seems I can reuse very little code from part 1 |
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| 02:45:45 | <iqubic> | What's parMap? |
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| 02:47:02 | <iqubic> | mauke: Actuall, that happens sometimes. Day 15 had a different part 1 and part 2 |
| 02:48:13 | <mauke> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parallel-3.2.2.0/docs/Control-Parallel-Strategies.html#v:parMap |
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| 02:50:20 | <iqubic> | dsal: My code isn't parallel or concurrent. |
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| 03:17:09 | <mauke> | not really closer to solving part 2, but switching from Data.IntSet to a custom set type changed the runtime from 0.53s to 0.00s, so that's fun |
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| 03:39:22 | <Guest73> | Strict monads can be characterized as those that when using do notation each line is executed one after the other. If I combine a strict state with a lazy writer (StateT Int (Writer (Sum Int)) a) is it strict respect to the rule above ? |
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| 03:42:06 | <EvanR> | depends what you mean by executed |
| 03:43:30 | <Guest73> | I am mostly interested on `seq` pure values so they can be forced. |
| 03:43:58 | <mauke> | man, I sure wish the links in the haddock synopsis section worked |
| 03:44:51 | <mauke> | but there is an onclick handler on the whole "synopsis" flyout container that prevents the default link action and closes the synopsis instead :-( |
| 03:45:23 | <EvanR> | Guest73, the other day we discussed how even strict state doesn't evaluate updates to the state immediately |
| 03:45:41 | <EvanR> | you need to seq it yourself or use modify' |
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| 03:52:19 | <Guest73> | EvanR yeah, you are right. But strict state gives you the feeling that each line is executed after the previous one. That helps with `seq` pure data. |
| 03:53:00 | <EvanR> | 🤔 |
| 03:53:07 | <Guest73> | I am interested on what happens to that feeling when you combine a strict and lazy monad transformer. |
| 03:53:53 | <davean> | how are you observing it? |
| 03:54:13 | <EvanR> | this is pretty wishy washy. Do you have some example code |
| 03:54:26 | <Guest73> | Say for example WriterT (Sum Int) State Char () where WriterT is lazy and State is strict. |
| 03:54:27 | <EvanR> | a StateT over Writer program |
| 03:54:36 | <davean> | transformers effectively write out a version of the monad they're wrapping, transforming it. What it produces executes like it is because it is |
| 03:55:08 | <EvanR> | like, are you using >>= or state or writer methods |
| 03:55:12 | <davean> | this is wishywashy because theres no specified observation method! |
| 03:56:59 | <EvanR> | Guest73, in lieu of specific examples, you can go through the code of mtl to see how these transformers work. Where they put ~ patterns, where they don't |
| 03:57:53 | <davean> | I actually have a suggestion for something that won't answer it directly but will perhaps get them to an understanding of how to think about it. |
| 03:58:00 | <EvanR> | lazy WriterT uses ~ in the implementation of >>= |
| 03:58:03 | <EvanR> | same for lazy StateT |
| 03:58:12 | <EvanR> | strict doesn't |
| 03:58:14 | <davean> | Guest73: What happens when use Reverse StateT here? |
| 03:59:23 | <Guest73> | I have seen the code. ~ matches work like `let` and normal bindings work like `case of`. |
| 04:00:02 | <Guest73> | That does not tell if the composition of monad transfomer works as of executing line by line when one of the stacks is lazy. |
| 04:00:17 | <EvanR> | yeah and the outer monad is the one that happens... on the outside (in some sense, "first") |
| 04:00:37 | <Guest73> | davean: I don't know |
| 04:00:38 | <EvanR> | the outer transformer |
| 04:01:09 | <davean> | Guest73: the outer one produces steps of the inner one |
| 04:01:18 | <davean> | litterly |
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| 04:02:40 | <EvanR> | and I don't fully understand the "`seq` on pure values" part of the question |
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| 04:04:11 | <EvanR> | seq can be understood in terms of evaluation of expressions, StateT on Writer or vice versa is a pure value and nothing's really being executed |
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| 04:04:53 | <EvanR> | I think of it as an expression being evaluated, exactly what that means depends on what you do with the whole thing |
| 04:04:58 | <davean> | Thats why I kept going about on the observational basis |
| 04:05:01 | <EvanR> | yeah |
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| 04:09:59 | <davean> | it'll evalaute the dependency chain you demand - strict puts a dep chain on the match |
| 04:10:16 | <davean> | So strict reverse state it is |
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| 04:24:15 | <iqubic> | What is strict reverse state? |
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| 04:26:16 | <davean> | Its a StateT that is strict and runs in the "opposite" direction |
| 04:27:40 | <davean> | Theres nothing saying which order the sets and gets go in State |
| 04:28:43 | <davean> | we can pass the state from the "end" to the "begining" instead of from the "begining" to the "end" |
| 04:29:41 | <davean> | Now what sorts of strictness does that allow? Does it allow the one you think is strict? |
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| 04:32:40 | <mauke> | mx >>= f = State (\s -> let (y, s') = runState (f x) s; (x, s'') = runState mx s' in (y, s'')) |
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| 04:45:25 | <iqubic> | Oh, so it's like the other, less useful half of the Tardis Monad. |
| 04:47:00 | <iqubic> | @hackage Tardis |
| 04:47:00 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Tardis |
| 04:49:01 | <iqubic> | @hackage tardis |
| 04:49:01 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tardis |
| 04:49:39 | <EvanR> | :k Reverse |
| 04:49:40 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 04:49:40 | <lambdabot> | Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Reverse’ |
| 04:49:47 | <EvanR> | what's Reverse |
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| 04:56:48 | <iqubic> | In base, it's a Newtype wrapper that turns turns all Foldable and Traversable operations of a given type into foldl's, instead of the default foldr direstion. But I doubt that's what is being referred to here. |
| 04:57:35 | <iqubic> | Wait... Reverse isn't in base but in transformers. |
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| 04:59:11 | <EvanR> | cool |
| 04:59:14 | <[Leary]> | In this particular case, the relevance is that it reverses an arbitrary applicative. |
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| 05:00:04 | <iqubic> | Oh, am I mixing up Reverse and Backwards? |
| 05:00:13 | <[Leary]> | Oh, maybe I am... |
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| 05:01:17 | <[Leary]> | Yeah, you're right, though I suspect davean meant Backwards. |
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| 06:29:39 | <zanc> | does this channel have an archive? |
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| 06:36:04 | <pavonia> | See topic for channel logs |
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| 15:44:27 | <Jade[m]> | @pl f x ++ y ++ f z |
| 15:44:27 | <lambdabot> | f x ++ y ++ f z |
| 15:45:39 | <geekosaur> | you need to give it points to remove by making them lambdas |
| 15:45:53 | <geekosaur> | @pl \f -> f x ++ y ++ f z |
| 15:45:53 | <lambdabot> | liftM2 (++) ($ x) ((y ++) . ($ z)) |
| 15:46:02 | <geekosaur> | …not worth it |
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| 15:52:55 | <trev> | is there a span/splitOn function that doesn't include what you're splitting on? |
| 15:53:33 | <davean> | ou mean like break? Its not clear what you're asking |
| 15:53:49 | <davean> | You have to have some decision mechanism |
| 15:54:19 | <c_wraith> | doesn't splitOn from the split package already not include what you're splitting on |
| 15:55:12 | <trev> | c_wraith let me check. i was using the one from Data.Text |
| 15:55:32 | <c_wraith> | oh, then the split package isn't relevant |
| 15:56:02 | <trev> | it might have something useful... |
| 15:56:31 | <trev> | davean yeah, any of them. they are always including the thing i want to split on |
| 15:57:20 | <Rembane> | If you go full on parser there's e.g. sepBy in Megaparsec. |
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| 16:05:11 | <trev> | nooo |
| 16:05:23 | <trev> | maybe i'll just write my own function -_- |
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| 16:13:18 | <maerwald> | never write your own function |
| 16:15:14 | <int-e> | no code, no bugs. |
| 16:15:17 | <geekosaur> | if a hoogle search gives me something under Distribution then yes,m I write my own 🙂 |
| 16:15:55 | <geekosaur> | s/,m/, |
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| 16:20:53 | <trev> | i've only been searching by "included in ghc" |
| 16:23:10 | <geekosaur> | that's a gradually decreasing number |
| 16:24:33 | <trev> | is haskell taking the rust route and making a small std lib? |
| 16:25:27 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 16:25:48 | <geekosaur> | because anything bundled with ghc is effectively frozen |
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| 16:32:59 | <geekosaur> | but we also have two different build managers, one of which is based on a resolver setup which amounts to a huge stdlib |
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| 16:35:38 | <trev> | geekosaur yes, i like this a lot...i think it's better for production (industrial) software |
| 16:35:55 | <trev> | rust dependency hell has not been nice to me |
| 16:36:29 | <geekosaur> | it does mean you're stuck with whatever the resolver gives you, including the associated ghc |
| 16:36:44 | <geekosaur> | and you often don't care about much of what's in the resolver |
| 16:37:29 | <trev> | i set my resolver to a ghc version...not sure what the standard way is |
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| 16:38:30 | <geekosaur> | if you set your resolver that way then the resolver consists of what's shipped with that ghc. normally you set it to an LTS which contains a lot of software (see stackage.org, where you can look up specific LTS and nightly resolvers) |
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| 18:12:55 | <morb> | hello |
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| 18:14:52 | <geekosaur> | hi |
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| 18:17:25 | <morb> | pretty new to haskell and FP in general, any well-regarded sources for learning? |
| 18:17:47 | <geekosaur> | @where cis194 |
| 18:17:47 | <lambdabot> | <https://github.com/byorgey/haskell-course>,<https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html> |
| 18:18:05 | <geekosaur> | that's the one we usually recommend |
| 18:18:53 | <morb> | good stuff, thanks! |
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| 18:22:23 | <sm1> | @where books |
| 18:22:23 | <lambdabot> | See `LYAH',`RWH',`YAHT',`SOE',`HR',`PIH',`TFwH',`wikibook',`PCPH',`HPFFP',`FSAF',`HftVB',`HTAC',`TwT',`FoP',`PFAD',`WYAH',`non-haskell-books'. Also https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books, |
| 18:22:23 | <lambdabot> | https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/learn-sources |
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| 18:23:12 | <morb> | looks like vex.net is a dead link |
| 18:23:25 | <geekosaur> | huh? |
| 18:23:35 | <morb> | bot's link |
| 18:23:38 | <sm1> | just noticed, I'll remove it. Simpler anyhow |
| 18:23:57 | <geekosaur> | ow |
| 18:24:14 | <geekosaur> | monochrom? did your site expire? |
| 18:25:26 | <geekosaur> | was fine just a few days ago |
| 18:27:22 | <sm1> | just the page |
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| 18:28:29 | <monochrom> | No, it's https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/learn-sources.html , someone dropped the .html |
| 18:28:29 | <maerwald> | new stack released |
| 18:28:34 | <sm1> | @where+ books https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books is the best list of Haskell books. See also: LYAH, RWH, YAHT, SOE, HR, PIH, TFwH, wikibook, PCPH, HPFFP, FSAF, HftVB, HTAC, TwT, FoP, PFAD, WYAH, non-haskell-books |
| 18:28:34 | <lambdabot> | It is stored. |
| 18:29:39 | <monochrom> | oh well |
| 18:29:53 | <sm1> | ah there it is.. monochrom are you ok with me focussing 'books' on a single url ? that's the norm and more useful I feel. Could add yours as it's own topic ? |
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| 18:30:31 | <sm1> | yours is not just books, also |
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| 19:25:45 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: Can you share some details how this is done? |
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| 19:27:25 | <DigitalKiwi> | what happened to dibblego github |
| 19:29:53 | <dminuoso> | And regarding the simple subsumption, it is mildly annoying, but I guess eta-expanding is not a horrible workaround, especially given that with deep subsumption this would happen regardless. |
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| 19:30:59 | <DigitalKiwi> | huttons book is the best |
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| 19:40:14 | <monochrom> | dminuoso: If you mean emacs haskell-mode and ghci and error integration: I'm just a user, I don't know how it's done, I guess haskell-mode parses ghci output, but all the standard expectations of C-x ` "goto next error" and highlights in source code buffer and hover to see error messages are met. |
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| 19:41:05 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: And how do you wire ghci in? Or is it jsut an option you turn on in a customize-group somewhere? |
| 19:41:23 | <monochrom> | It also helps that haskell-mode uses -ferror-spans |
| 19:41:45 | <monochrom> | (add-hook 'haskell-mode-hook 'interactive-haskell-mode) |
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| 19:42:08 | <monochrom> | Hrm actually I wonder if that's the default today. |
| 19:42:31 | <dminuoso> | Oh haha, I always thought that was a mode to launch ghci in an eshell or something |
| 19:43:14 | <dminuoso> | Will that properly load an entire project? |
| 19:43:23 | <monochrom> | Ugh not default. Why would it not be the default today?! As if there were actually any viable alternative. (No, the very old legacy dumb alternative doesn't count.) |
| 19:43:24 | <dminuoso> | Or is this just a ghci session that will :r each module as you go? |
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| 19:45:16 | <monochrom> | haskell-mode knows about foo.cabal and runs "cabal repl" instead. |
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| 21:10:00 | <glguy> | None of the links in the haddocks on hackage in the synopsis section actually work for me. Clicking one just closes the synopsis. Is anyone else experiencing this? |
| 21:10:39 | <glguy> | (current Chrome) |
| 21:11:00 | <glguy> | same with Safari |
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| 21:13:01 | <geekosaur> | same. chrome, current as of a couple days ago |
| 21:13:16 | <glguy> | It's been like this for months, but I just figured it was something temporary I'd done |
| 21:14:12 | <geekosaur> | the synopsis has always been wonky in one way or another for me, so I got out of the habit of using it |
| 21:14:36 | <geekosaur> | especially after the time when they did something that caused it to not be closable once opened, several years back |
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| 21:17:11 | <dgpratt[m]> | I feel like I remember there was a mathy name for something like: f(x) == f(g(f(x))) -- anyone have a clue what I'm trying to remember? right adjoint? adjunct? |
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| 21:39:18 | <darkling> | I recall meeting an A.B.A^-1 in linear algebra (gives you the B matrix after a change of basis represented by A; I may have the inverse in the wrong place). I don't recall what it's called, though. |
| 21:40:03 | <mauke> | glguy: same, firefox |
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| 22:05:35 | <monochrom> | darkling: conjugation |
| 22:07:00 | <monochrom> | Or you can continue calling it change of basis if it's specifically matrices and linear algebra :) |
| 22:08:24 | <monochrom> | conjugation is broadly whenever x * y * x^-1 (or the other way round, I forgot like you did) working in any group. |
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| 22:14:55 | <justsomeguy> | Is there a package that will allow me to write the equivalent of curl -H "API Token: $token" "http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/api/v2/datasets" as a one-liner in Haskell? |
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| 22:52:30 | <ddellacosta> | is there anything other than Aeson that folks are using for reading/exporting JSON to/from types? I feel like I read about some alternatives a little while ago but poking around online now I couldn't find anything. I have no beef with Aeson, actually I have always found it to work well for my needs, I'm just curious |
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| 22:53:34 | <geekosaur> | waargonaut is one |
| 22:54:27 | <ddellacosta> | geekosaur: neat, thanks--looks pretty substantial |
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| 23:13:27 | <EvanR> | wow the waargonaut haddocks have a respectable of actual documentation |
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| 23:16:36 | <sm> | 👀 |
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| 23:38:54 | <maralorn> | ddellacosta: I switched nix-output-monitor from aeson to hermes-json because it was significantly faster for that usecase. |
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| 23:44:35 | <alexfmpe[m]> | is there a way to detect whether a module's being compiled in ghci? |
| 23:44:47 | <alexfmpe[m]> | via cpp or something |
| 23:47:35 | <monochrom> | I don't understand the question. Does :show modules help? |
| 23:48:44 | <alexfmpe[m]> | er, I didn't word that well - is there a way to distinguish between ghc and ghci? for instance, if I wanted to show a "debug version" when using ghci |
| 23:51:56 | <alexfmpe[m]> | ah, maybe I could check for -fno-code? |
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| 23:53:54 | <alexfmpe[m]> | huh is that possible? |
| 23:54:07 | <alexfmpe[m]> | or only -D<symbol> is visible to cpp |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-12-17.