Logs on 2022-12-31 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:31 | <DigitalKiwi> | https://www.inflationtool.com/us-dollar/1989-to-present-value?amount=999&year2=2022&frequency=yearly $999 in 1989 |
| 00:00:33 | <DigitalKiwi> | $2,413.63 in 2022 |
| 00:00:36 | <DigitalKiwi> | oof |
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| 00:17:58 | <unit73e> | DigitalKiwi, maybe that's going to be the price of an RTX 4090ti |
| 00:18:14 | <unit73e> | or near that |
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| 01:16:46 | <iqubic> | jle``: Are you around? I was wondering if I could ask you a question about your mutable library. I know that you managed to make it work for lists. Does that mean I can have mutable version of an infinite list, or not? |
| 01:17:35 | <iqubic> | For those wondering, I'm asking about this: |
| 01:17:39 | <iqubic> | @hackage mutable |
| 01:17:39 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mutable |
| 01:19:11 | <iqubic> | On a related note, can I use ST as the base monad in a Monad Transformer stack to get mutable effects? |
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| 01:34:11 | <unit73e> | mutable in haskell? what kind of blasphemy is this? call the witch hunters |
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| 01:39:29 | <c_wraith> | iqubic: sure ST is a fine base monad. |
| 01:39:52 | <c_wraith> | well, ST s |
| 01:42:27 | <iqubic> | Yeah, I understand that it would be ST s. |
| 01:44:03 | <iqubic> | I mainly want to use ST s as the base layer so that I can do mutable operations (with jle's library) with stateful operations |
| 01:49:09 | <jackdk> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mutable-0.2.2.0/docs/Data-Mutable.html: "An instance of Mutable s a means that a can be stored a mutable reference in a PrimMonad m" -- is `ST s` an instance of `PrimMonad`? |
| 01:50:57 | <iqubic> | Yes |
| 01:51:49 | <jackdk> | Looks like that is your answer then |
| 01:52:11 | <iqubic> | But I need to know if the Mutable library is strict or not, because I'd like to work with inifinite lists. |
| 01:52:20 | <jackdk> | And I imagine you can stack whatever transformers you care about on top. |
| 01:52:47 | <iqubic> | I will be doing that. |
| 01:53:46 | <jackdk> | Hm, what if you wrote a program that attempted to thaw an infinite list and checked whether or not it worked? |
| 01:54:36 | <iqubic> | I'll try that. |
| 01:56:29 | <iqubic> | I'm gonna go get some food now. Be back later |
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| 04:36:38 | DigitalKiwi | wonders if they'll be back before or after they solve the halting problem |
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| 04:43:08 | <iqubic> | Oh, I've been back for a while. I just didn't annouce my presence |
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| 04:45:09 | <DigitalKiwi> | lazy evaluation eh |
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| 04:49:15 | <iqubic> | Yes |
| 04:49:22 | <iqubic> | I'm a lazy lass |
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| 05:02:04 | <iqubic> | Or at least I think I'm a lass. I haven't fully evaluated my gender yet, because I'm lazy. |
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| 05:10:38 | <iqubic> | jackdk: Turns out I can't actually test if the Mutable library is strict or not, because of this compilation error: https://dpaste.com/AHU4HGKLF |
| 05:11:02 | <iqubic> | I think there might have been an update to Vector that has broken Mutable |
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| 05:15:05 | <dsal> | Annoyed that people post blog posts trying to teach haskell, but don't allow comments. Some of this stuff is just overly complicated. |
| 05:15:41 | <iqubic> | That's so annoying |
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| 05:29:09 | <iqubic> | Well, I just submitted a github issue for jle``'s mutable library |
| 05:29:22 | <iqubic> | It seems that changes to Vinyl have broken it. |
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| 05:29:55 | <iqubic> | jle``: You don't have to fix this anytime soon, but it would be nice to get it fixed at some point. |
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| 05:31:31 | <mauke[m]> | nice spark |
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| 06:15:04 | <jackdk> | And/or put up metadata revisions such that the broken build plans are excluded. |
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| 06:28:28 | <iqubic> | jackdk: What do you mean by that? |
| 06:29:15 | <iqubic> | https://github.com/mstksg/mutable/issues/4 |
| 06:29:25 | <iqubic> | That's the thing I opened. |
| 06:29:44 | <iqubic> | I have no clue how to fix these issues, but I want to present the issues |
| 06:29:58 | <jackdk> | https://github.com/haskell-infra/hackage-trustees/blob/master/revisions-information.md#hackage-metadata-revisions--what-they-are-how-they-work |
| 06:30:49 | <jackdk> | The package maintainer and/or a hackage trustee (if the maintainer is unavailable or unresponsive, and has not opted out) should revise the bounds on released versions of mutable to exclude the versions of vinyl that break |
| 06:31:10 | <iqubic> | That makes sense. |
| 06:31:47 | <jackdk> | mutable declares a dependency on vinyl with no bounds at all, which I don't think is good practice because it leads to exactly this scenario |
| 06:32:22 | <iqubic> | jle`` was around a bit during Advent of Code, and is currently logged into this IRC channel. I guess they might be asleep right now, so I'm not too concerned. |
| 06:33:26 | <iqubic> | jackdk: It also doesn't provide bounds on Template-Haskell, Transformers, or Vector. I'm not sure how often those APIs change |
| 06:35:01 | <iqubic> | And in the wise words of Jle himself, I'm gonna sleep too |
| 06:35:06 | <iqubic> | @quote zzz |
| 06:35:06 | <lambdabot> | sebazzz says: <sebazzz> vos no te diste cuenta, pero cuando estas en pedo, y si yo estoy, te saco del alcanse todo objeto contundente |
| 06:35:14 | <iqubic> | @quote getSum |
| 06:35:14 | <lambdabot> | jle` says: let sleep = pure "zzz" in getSum sleep |
| 06:35:25 | <iqubic> | That's the one I was looking for. |
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| 11:51:32 | <juri_> | geekosaur[m]: thanks again, your help last night got me where i needed to be. |
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| 12:04:19 | <juri_> | geekosaur[m]: i was looking for "| typeOf line1 == typeOf line2 && line1 == fromJust (cast line2) = (1, mempty)" , fwiw. |
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| 13:43:21 | <mauke[m]> | more like | cast line2 == Just line 1 = (1, mempty) |
| 13:43:37 | <mauke[m]> | * more like | cast line2 == Just line1 = (1, mempty) |
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| 13:55:36 | <mauke[m]> | in fact, that's just PHP |
| 13:56:20 | <mauke[m]> | `(===) :: (Typeable a, Typeable b, Eq b) => a -> b -> Bool; a === b = cast a == Just b` |
| 13:56:34 | <mauke[m]> | and then | line1 === line 2 = ... |
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| 14:25:31 | <isekaijin> | Why do we need a Representable type class in Haskell? In math (at least in algebraic topology and algebraic geometry), representable functors provide an indirect way to construct spaces, especially classifying spaces. Can representable functors in Haskell also be used to indirectly construct types? |
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| 14:27:18 | <c_wraith> | "need" is a funny word. |
| 14:28:56 | <c_wraith> | in the sense of "is this necessary to write a particular piece of software?", no typeclasses are needed. |
| 14:28:58 | <isekaijin> | Well, I would like to know if anything nontrivial is achieved by having a Representable type class. In math, certainly nontrivial things are achieved by having the notion of representable functor. (e.g., you define a functor, show that it satisfies the conditions of the Brown representability theorem, and then you get your classifying space for free, without constructing it “by hand”.) |
| 14:29:38 | <isekaijin> | Getting the type checker to construct a type for you from a functor would actually be pretty neat. |
| 14:30:44 | <c_wraith> | types don't really work that way in Haskell. |
| 14:31:59 | <c_wraith> | you might find https://packdeps.haskellers.com/reverse/adjunctions interesting |
| 14:32:18 | <c_wraith> | though admittedly, that package does export a lot more than Representable functors |
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| 14:37:56 | <c_wraith> | but Representable does appear in the types of some of things that depend on it, like https://hackage.haskell.org/package/linear-1.22/docs/Linear-Matrix.html#v:column |
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| 14:47:43 | <isekaijin> | c_wraith: Thanks! |
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| 15:19:41 | <Jadesheit[m]> | @pl f (g x) (g y) |
| 15:19:41 | <lambdabot> | f (g x) (g y) |
| 15:19:55 | <Jadesheit[m]> | wrong command a |
| 15:19:57 | <Jadesheit[m]> | * wrong command aaa |
| 15:20:10 | <c_wraith> | @pl \x y -> f (g x) (g y) |
| 15:20:10 | <lambdabot> | (. g) . f . g |
| 15:20:28 | <Jadesheit[m]> | I thought you could refactor that in general, not make it pointfree |
| 15:20:37 | <Jadesheit[m]> | like a binary operation after a unary one |
| 15:20:48 | <Jadesheit[m]> | in APL you have the S combinator I think |
| 15:20:55 | <Jadesheit[m]> | but is there an idiom in haskell? |
| 15:20:56 | <c_wraith> | S isn't quite right |
| 15:20:59 | <mauke[m]> | @pl \g -> f (g x) (g y) |
| 15:20:59 | <lambdabot> | liftM2 f ($ x) ($ y) |
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| 15:21:16 | <c_wraith> | S is \f g x -> f x (g x) |
| 15:21:23 | <Jadesheit[m]> | ohh right |
| 15:21:25 | <Jadesheit[m]> | mb |
| 15:21:49 | <mauke[m]> | @pl \x -> f (g x) (h x) |
| 15:21:49 | <lambdabot> | liftM2 f g h |
| 15:23:17 | <Jadesheit[m]> | does on work? |
| 15:23:29 | <mauke[m]> | @src on |
| 15:23:29 | <lambdabot> | (*) `on` f = \x y -> f x * f y |
| 15:23:42 | <Jadesheit[m]> | yeah |
| 15:23:44 | <mauke[m]> | yes, that seems reasonable |
| 15:24:14 | <mauke[m]> | > on f g x y :: Expr |
| 15:24:15 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 15:24:15 | <lambdabot> | • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘f’ |
| 15:24:15 | <lambdabot> | prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved. |
| 15:24:51 | <mauke[m]> | > on (f :: Expr -> Expr -> Expr) g x y |
| 15:24:53 | <lambdabot> | f (g x) (g y) |
| 15:25:32 | <Jadesheit[m]> | perfect |
| 15:25:34 | <Jadesheit[m]> | thanks |
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| 15:26:05 | <Jadesheit[m]> | what exactly is Expr? |
| 15:26:27 | <mauke[m]> | fake symbolic evaluation |
| 15:26:29 | <c_wraith> | @hackage simple-reflect |
| 15:26:29 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-reflect |
| 15:27:14 | <c_wraith> | It's not even fake symbolic evaluation. It's just really basic symbolic evaluation |
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| 16:52:46 | <Guillaum[m]> | I've done a bit of "type level string parsing" to parse iso 8601 duration: https://gist.github.com/guibou/32762816ace8e9c8509ace5570e73c96 . This is really painful, mostly because I did not find any way to let bind or pattern match in type familly other than introducing another new type familly. Do you know a better way? |
| 16:56:22 | <dmj`> | Guillaum[m]: very nice |
| 16:56:54 | <dmj`> | Guillaum[m]: I did something similar with JSON, https://github.com/dmjio/type-level-json/blob/master/src/TypeLevel/JSON.hs |
| 16:57:11 | <dmj`> | type level programmers of the world unite |
| 16:58:18 | <mauke> | inb4 type-level debugger |
| 16:58:18 | <dmj`> | Guillaum[m]: to answer your question I think there is no better way, TFs aren't higher order in Haskell so, you always have to introduce new local families |
| 16:59:27 | <Guillaum[m]> | [dmj](https://matrix.to/#/@dmj:libera.chat): thank you ;) You did something really nice with that json parser. The Lex TF is smart, it avoids the UnconsSymbol everywhere, it may simplifies a lot my implementation. |
| 16:59:28 | <hpc> | you need a kind checker of some kind to check your code for errors before you compile it |
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| 17:27:02 | <dmj`> | Guillaum[m]: UnconsSymbol is a huge game changer |
| 17:27:43 | <dmj`> | Guillaum[m]: Just waiting on someone to implement a SQL parser now |
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| 17:30:01 | <dmj`> | Guillaum[m]: lex preprocessing helps a lot yea |
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| 17:34:16 | <dmj`> | Guillaum[m]: multiline Symbols are kind of gross though |
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| 17:54:50 | <Guillaum[m]> | [dmj](https://matrix.to/#/@dmj:libera.chat): Well, multiline strings are already a problem |
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| 23:25:49 | × | Guest4496 quits (~finn@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:27:19 | → | freeside joins (~mengwong@103.252.202.159) |
| 23:27:49 | → | Everything joins (~Everythin@46.185.124.170) |
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| 23:37:41 | × | stiell_ quits (~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 23:46:01 | × | eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:38c5:d800:b011:11:9945:c47d) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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All times are in UTC on 2022-12-31.