Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2023-01-13 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:23:40 <unit73e> meh looks like I didn't use binary package correctly. I've been using more and more abstractions over the years. I guess that's common with haskellers.
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00:37:28 <cheater> @faq can haskell run java?
00:37:28 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/FAQ
00:37:32 <cheater> :(
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00:38:45 <geekosaur> dons's cheeky answer went away a decade or so ago
00:38:53 <cheater> i know
00:38:58 <jackdk> cheater: https://www.tweag.io/blog/tags/inline-java/ Tweag was doing stuff with an `inline-java` package for a while
00:39:05 <unit73e> what was the checky answer?
00:39:14 <geekosaur> "Yes! Haskell can do that!"
00:39:20 <cheater> no, it wasn't
00:39:30 <cheater> it was
00:39:32 <cheater> "Yes, Haskell can do that!"
00:39:53 <unit73e> lol precision
00:40:09 <cheater> the comma is ontological
00:40:52 <unit73e> I guess that was at a time java was very popular? most programming programming language can run java
00:41:43 <unit73e> java latest stealing from haskell was records btw
00:41:47 <unit73e> the name
00:42:10 <unit73e> no derives or any of that fancy stuff though
00:44:38 <unit73e> scala has case class, kotlin has data class, and java chose to borrow "record" from haskell. the most sensible name imo, case class is the worst.
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01:09:47 <EvanR> I used java-bridge once
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01:12:15 <monochrom> Haskell2010 still has reserved room for FFI calling conventions cplusplus, jvm, dotnet, but leaving them open, waiting for the next generation to specify them. :)
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01:52:22 <glguy> Does eta still exist?
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01:56:11 <DigitalKiwi> last i heard the dev got a job working on something not eta
01:58:42 <DigitalKiwi> unit73e: the bot used to respond to every question of the form "can haskell _" or some such not just "run java" with "yes, haskell can do that!"
01:59:40 <unit73e> lol
02:00:07 <unit73e> so haskell used to be able to do me a sandwich
02:00:24 <unit73e> with coffee
02:01:10 <DigitalKiwi> there's probably an arduino coffee cup heater and you can program arduinos with haskell so....
02:01:37 <DigitalKiwi> https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/announcing_arduino-copilot/
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02:03:23 <DigitalKiwi> glguy: hi buddy :D how're you
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03:15:31 <Inst> so disappointing, there's like no major webdev users of Haskell ;_;
03:15:35 <Inst> possibly a cultural mismatch
03:16:14 <sm> Inst: the IHP community is pretty active
03:16:19 <Axman6> what makesd you think that profound statement is true?
03:17:48 <sm> I like the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange mentioned at https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/fafvd4/any_examples_of_large_haskell_web_apis/
03:17:55 <Inst> define active
03:17:57 <Inst> https://ihp.digitallyinduced.com/community/
03:18:26 <Inst> Axman6: I hang around with JSers on Codewars, etc, and I try to cajole all the hobby-level JS to Haskellers to make more apps in Haskell and try to push it into production
03:18:38 <sm> lots of updates and happy sounds from users. Please define major webdev users ?
03:18:49 <Inst> I put up a thread, but it's hard for me to see people building substantial stuff with Haskell server kits
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03:19:21 <Inst> and generally, Haskell websites don't look well-designed; maybe they understand their audience (put off by frapperies)
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03:19:48 <Axman6> Inst: why do you do that? It seems like something that's only going to annoy people. you seem to have an obsession with making haskell "successful" when it already is successful in the ways that matter to us. We don't have any ambitions to by python or ruby
03:20:33 <Inst> newbie enthusiasm, i guess
03:20:52 <maerwald> true, let them be enthusiastic before reality hits them
03:21:19 <sm> Haskell hasn't reached ruby on rails level of excitement for web dev, but I think a fair number of web apps and apis are using it without fuss
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03:21:52 <Axman6> yep, it's probably one of the places that Haskell in production is most common
03:22:58 <sm> re well-designed, in the graphic/UX sense - it's of course possible but people don't reach for haskell for that, so the set of pretty haskell web apps is quite small
03:23:03 <Axman6> Also I'm not sure a quiet forum indicates a lack of use, it could also indicate a lack of problems; most people don't go on a forum just to say "Another day of using IHP, I didn't run into any bugs today"
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03:24:06 <sm> let's hope :)
03:24:20 <sm> it's still on my list to try
03:25:36 <Axman6> yeah I don't tend have many reasons to do web dev, but I would like to give it a go too
03:26:07 <sm> a 1G vps isn't big enough for the nix install, must try again
03:28:07 <Axman6> Damn, looks like it's come a long way since I last looked at it, looks really slick
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03:32:17 <jackdk> I'll say it: we just had another week of Haskell web services where nothing broke. Haven't looked into the IHPverse though...
03:32:33 <jackdk> Just like many weeks before it.
03:33:12 <sm> jackdk: sounds pretty boring. Love it. :)
03:33:47 <jackdk> Haskell makes writing software a lot more boring. It's pretty cool.
03:33:51 <Axman6> I've been told by my previous boss the web service I wrote... 8 years ago... is still running just fine in production
03:35:37 <sm> BORING
03:36:38 <sm> I would like to know of one really snazzy-looking haskell web app, if anyone knows one.
03:36:59 <sm> I know that's nothing to do with haskell, except good for perception
03:37:12 <Axman6> yeah, it just sits there, using minimal memory, performing well, day in, day out. Basically wrote myself out of a job
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03:37:28 <sm> doh
03:38:12 <Axman6> (not really)
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03:38:25 <Axman6> IHP have some case studies on their website
03:38:31 <monochrom> How about hackage? How much of hackage is written in Haskell?
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03:39:40 <sm> yup hackage is certainly a serious web app
03:39:56 <maerwald> I don't like how the search behaves since a couple of months
03:40:01 <maerwald> it's slower and not streaming results
03:40:09 <sm> now I'm thinking of the Daedalus wallet app, but I'm not sure which parts are haskell
03:40:16 <maerwald> sm: none
03:40:22 <maerwald> it's js/electron
03:40:31 sm checks https://flora.pm
03:40:52 <sm> no haskell involved ?
03:41:48 <sm> https://www.haskellers.com is still going
03:43:22 <sm> https://hub.darcs.net/dolio is a serious web app, though not fancy
03:43:35 <sm> er, not just dolio's part.
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03:56:48 <Inst> hackage is supposed to be on happstack, no?
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03:58:12 <Inst> i was just more disappointed that there were no good user testimonials for Haskell from web developers on the thread I put up
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04:01:29 <sm> yes it's build on happstack
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04:02:07 <DigitalKiwi> sm: do you have swap on your 1G VPS
04:02:46 <sm> probably a little, but that's too slow for haskell work, I bumped it up to 4G today
04:03:04 <sm> needed it for compiling haskell programs too
04:03:12 <DigitalKiwi> a lot of (nix/haskell) things that don't work on small systems work with a bit of swap
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04:03:44 <DigitalKiwi> nix haskell or otherwise won't like 1g without swap ime
04:04:21 <DigitalKiwi> 21:36 sm: I would like to know of one really snazzy-looking haskell web app, if anyone knows one.
04:04:29 <DigitalKiwi> https://mostlyabsurd.com/gallery/
04:04:32 <DigitalKiwi> ;)
04:04:39 <monochrom> heh
04:04:47 <sm> 512M swap, it has
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04:05:25 <DigitalKiwi> i usually do 2-4 but at least 1GB
04:05:40 <sm> very cool. https://mostlyabsurd.com/pieces/2019/12/30/nixos-lambda/
04:07:38 <DigitalKiwi> thanks
04:10:20 <DigitalKiwi> i've nixos and haskell on raspberry pi 3b+ successfully with enough swap lol
04:14:10 <sm> "I only started learning Haskell last year, simultaneously with IHP, and have not worked with other Haskell frameworks so I am not able to compare it with others. However, as a beginner, it was very easy to get going and has been an effective way to learn Haskell for me. After using it for a while now and moving somewhat beyond complete beginner skills, I still find it more than sufficient for my needs. So definitely yes, I would recommend it."
04:14:45 <DigitalKiwi> sm they never said if they didn't mind tsk tsk
04:15:18 <DigitalKiwi> 22:11 sm: that's very cool, thanks
04:15:19 <DigitalKiwi> 22:12 sm: if you don't mind I'll quote that in the other-room web dev chat
04:15:21 <DigitalKiwi> 22:13 DigitalKiwi: and if you do mind i will quote it instead because i'm rude and you're already anonymous lol
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04:30:32 <Inst> I wonder if IHP is viable as a place to drop off people who want to learn Haskell, since it gets them to do something practical with the language
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04:39:46 <DigitalKiwi> help is this what you would call a recursive make (considered harmful) https://www.dropbox.com/s/gyyik9qpl1b62mj/2023-01-12%2022.21.47.jpg?dl=0
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05:11:19 <sm> Inst: yes, by all accounts it is a good place for at least some people
05:11:52 <sm> server side web dev heads, at least
05:14:46 <sm> some might do better at https://code.world and then https://code.world/haskell
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06:21:47 <Inst> thanks for bringing up codeworld, sm
06:22:04 <Inst> I've ALWAYS wanted to learn FRP, but never had a good angle, three penny gui was too hard
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07:47:37 <curious-user> hi, does anyone remeber a web site with monads/typeclasses tutorials and exercises, it was unfinished several years ago, it was a dedicated site(not a blog post) and i think it had a lot of red color
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07:53:48 <Unicorn_Princess> curious-user: not a lot of red colour, but it does have a lot of here's-a-typeclass-figure-out-what-the-function-should-be exercises: https://github.com/system-f/fp-course
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07:57:15 <curious-user> Unicorn_Princess: thanks! that's not it but it's still useful
07:58:39 <Unicorn_Princess> sorry, s/typeclass/type, mostly
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09:22:15 <mei> the new ghcup version fail to start in windows: libstdc++-6.dll missing
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09:33:22 <maerwald[m]> mei: oy
09:34:09 <mei> it's somehow documented in another context https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/faq/#how-to-get-a-working-executable-on-windows
09:34:10 <maerwald[m]> I wonder if some msys2 stuff sneaked in
09:34:28 <mei> but the thing is that i don't have libstdc++-6.dll anywhere
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09:37:37 <maerwald[m]> mei: do you have C:\\ghcup\\msys2 or sth?
09:38:08 <mei> of course, or i don't think even the older version would have worked
09:38:16 <mei> also, i tried to rename ghcup folder and did a clean install
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09:41:12 <maerwald[m]> mei: and is msys2 stuff in your PATH?
09:41:52 <mei> well, what directory?
09:42:11 <mei> i don't think so though
09:43:28 <maerwald[m]> C:\msys64\mingw64\bin
09:43:39 <maerwald[m]> C:\msys64\usr\bin
09:43:46 <maerwald[m]> Something like that
09:43:47 <mei> there isn't that dll but i will try
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09:43:59 <maerwald[m]> It's not supposed to be in PATH
09:44:09 <maerwald[m]> But it may make it work
09:44:27 <mei> i think it would if the dll was there...
09:45:04 <mei> yeah, no outcome
09:45:29 <maerwald[m]> Which directories did you add
09:45:46 <mei> C:\ghcup\msys64\mingw64\bin;C:\ghcup\msys64\usr\bin
09:46:18 <mei> trust me i used the search bar, that dll is not anywhere
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09:47:59 <mei> i wonder if that lib was static in the previous version...
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09:49:00 <mei> i will try to download msys2 standalone
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09:50:55 <mei> no libstdc++-6.dll there
09:51:38 <maerwald> lemme try in vbox
09:54:32 <eldritchcookie[4> is there anything to automate generating c2hs binding modules, it is amazing what boilerplate it saves me but i am not using all its power and probably won't need it
09:56:07 <eldritchcookie[4> like all my fun directives are use haskell equivalent types, and one or other also has this argument is returned by reference.
09:57:30 <maerwald> mei: can reproduce
09:57:33 <maerwald> it's not msys2
09:57:47 <maerwald> it's fuckup due to text-2.0
09:57:53 <maerwald> which requires C++
09:58:11 <maerwald> and now GHC links the *internal* libstdc++
09:58:35 <maerwald> the workaround is to put this in your PATH: C:\ghcup\ghc\9.2.5\mingw\bin
09:58:41 <maerwald> or equivalent of any ghc version
09:58:43 <mei> well you first need ghc....
09:58:49 <mei> and ghcup is used to get ghc
09:58:53 <maerwald> yep
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09:59:02 <mei> now i'm sad i removed the old folder
09:59:12 <maerwald> GHC is just unpack on windows
09:59:27 <mei> ok let me see
09:59:30 <maerwald> you can unpack a bindist somewhere in tmp dir and add that to path
09:59:41 <maerwald> https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/9.2.5/ghc-9.2.5-x86_64-unknown-mingw32.zip
09:59:58 <mei> is that 32 correct? i'm on 64
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10:00:21 <maerwald> this is the correct bindist
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10:03:58 <choram> hello!
10:05:25 <eldritchcookie[4> is there anything to automate generating c2hs binding modules, it is amazing what boilerplate it saves me but i am not using all its power and probably won't need it
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10:05:37 <fendor[m]> Can I get a source location for an error call caused by `NonEmpty.fromList`? I am trying `cabal test --enable-profiling --test-options="+RTS -xc"`, but even with the stack trace, I can't determine the source location of the error
10:06:23 <maerwald> mei: please raise the issue here https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-hs/issues and tag bgamari
10:06:39 <maerwald> unfortunately, I'm off to a date and can't fix it right now
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10:07:08 <maerwald> the short-term solution seems to be to downgrade text so we don't get this C++ madness
10:07:12 <maerwald> then roll a new point release
10:07:15 <mei> bgamari bgamari[m] is in this room though
10:07:23 <maerwald> mei: yes, on the *ticket*
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10:15:54 <mei> btw even with this workaround the install fail
10:16:02 <mei> "_eghcup --cache install ghc recommended" failed!
10:16:03 <mei> cat: 'https'$'\357\200\272''/www.haskell.org/ghcup/sh/bootstrap-haskell': No such file or directory
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10:16:21 <mei> but i can finish manually with ghcup
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10:21:01 <mei> btw my bad that i tried to add the lib from msys, but the wiki stated from ghc
10:21:09 <mei> "Those libraries are shipped with GHC (and, theoretically in some cases, MSYS)"
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10:24:10 <maerwald> I can make it work when I point it to the internal GHC dir that containst libstdc++
10:24:20 <maerwald> that's C:\ghcup\ghc\9.2.5\mingw\bin here
10:27:02 <maerwald> mei: https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-hs/issues/745
10:27:43 <mei> what do you mean by pointing to it? adding that to path? did it and ghcup is working fine. but i'm saying that the script that install the thing at some point fail as i showed you
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10:28:38 <mei> i'm fine, since i did ghcup install stuff later, but maybe there are people out there that want the installer script to work :D
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10:29:06 <maerwald> yes, adding to Path
10:29:09 <maerwald> the env var
10:29:51 <mei> yes, ghcup is fixed. but still the install script fail after installing ghcup, so you don't have any ghc and so on at install complete
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10:34:48 <Profpatsch> Is there a selection of newtype wrappers that will only implement subsets of Num?
10:35:12 <Profpatsch> i.e. newtype Foo a = Foo a deriving Num via Addition
10:35:34 <Profpatsch> Where Addition will only implement (+) and throw errors for any other function
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10:36:36 <eldritchcookie[4> why would you want that i am genuinely curious
10:37:18 <mei> maerwald: i think the issue is that the path we added to windows is not considered inside msys, so the script fail to run ghcup there
10:37:28 <Profpatsch> eldritchcookie[4: because Num a => Semigroup (Sum a)
10:37:44 <Profpatsch> But my newtype should decidedly only ever be used for addition
10:38:28 <Profpatsch> I’d rather throw a runtime error if somebody would ever try to multiply or negate it
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10:40:37 <maerwald[m]> mei: yes, there's a config option to inherit env
10:41:06 <eldritchcookie[4> if you newtype is based on a Num a you can do newtype onlySum deriving semigroup via Sum BaseType
10:41:24 <chreekat> Too bad + was stolen by Num and not something... else
10:41:38 <maerwald[m]> MSYS2_PATH_TYPE=inherit
10:42:01 <maerwald[m]> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/45404631/msys2-not-finding-windows-programs-despite-msys2-path-type-inherit
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10:43:56 <eldritchcookie[4> like if there is one canonical associative operation for your type it should be Semigroup not Num
10:44:40 <Profpatsch> eldritchcookie[4: it’s the other way around
10:44:44 <Profpatsch> my newtype is in a sum
10:45:22 <Profpatsch> Maybe I should invert that actually
10:45:31 <eldritchcookie[4> sorry i don't understand please send your newtype definition
10:45:52 <Profpatsch> newtype Foo a = Foo a
10:46:13 <Profpatsch> Or rather newtype Foo = Foo Int
10:47:28 <eldritchcookie[4> so you want to have sum but not multiplication?
10:48:52 <eldritchcookie[4> why is newtype Foo = Foo Int deriving Semigroup via Sum Int not acceptable?
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10:52:38 <Profpatsch> eldritchcookie[4: Not entirely sure, but it feels wrong to implement a Semigroup instance on this directly
10:53:06 <Profpatsch> Also you need Num if you want to allow for overloaded number literals
10:55:36 <Profpatsch> > 4 * 4 :: MilkAmount
10:55:38 <lambdabot> error:
10:55:38 <eldritchcookie[4> well if you need Num but only sum and are ok with leaving it incomplete you will need to wrap and unwrap
10:55:38 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘MilkAmount’
10:55:38 <Profpatsch> MilkAmount {unMilkAmount = *** Exception: Only addition allowed for MilkAmount
10:55:48 <Profpatsch> > 4 + 4 :: MilkAmount
10:55:50 <lambdabot> error:
10:55:50 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘MilkAmount’
10:55:50 <Profpatsch> MilkAmount {unMilkAmount = 8.0}
10:55:52 <Profpatsch> like this
10:56:22 <Profpatsch> newtype MilkAmount = MilkAmount {unMilkAmount :: Scientific}
10:56:23 <Profpatsch> deriving (Num) via (AdditionOnly "MilkAmount" Scientific)
10:56:25 <Profpatsch> I think that’s okay
10:56:48 Profpatsch pets lambdabot
10:57:50 eldritchcookie[4 test command
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11:00:03 <jackdk> @botsnack
11:00:03 <lambdabot> :)
11:02:20 <eldritchcookie[4> is there some way to prevent the massive amount of boilerplate needed when using c2hs? like is there some way to say for these functions just convert to appropriate haskell type no fancy pointer tricks needed?
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11:03:20 <eldritchcookie[4> like for instance i have a lot like this ```haskell
11:03:20 <eldritchcookie[4> {#fun unsafe update_display_region as ^ {`Int',`Int',`Int',`Int'} -> `()'#}
11:03:20 <eldritchcookie[4> ```
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11:03:44 <eldritchcookie[4> {#fun unsafe update_display_region as ^ {Int',Int',Int',Int'} -> `()'#}
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11:05:08 <eldritchcookie[4> like it is smart enough to know if that is valid couldn't it have a default fun directive for the vast majority like this?
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11:05:49 <eldritchcookie[4> so it would shorten to {#default fun update_display_region as ^ #}
11:08:29 <eldritchcookie[4> which may not seem like a lot but i am doing this for like hundreds of functions so that would translate to fewerr hundreds of lines
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12:06:58 <dminuoso> I have a new typeclass I enjoy `class Isomorphic s t where morph :: s -> t` with an obvious implied law.
12:07:33 <dminuoso> Its the result of fighting with three different IPv4 data types and not wanting to deal with the constant confusion of "which conversion function do I want"
12:07:49 <dminuoso> (well and IPv6, and IPv4Prefix, and IPv6Prefix)
12:07:58 <dminuoso> Combinations were just a bit too much :)
12:09:02 <dminuoso> Even comes with something like `instance Isomorphic s t => Isomorphic (Maybe s) (Maybe t) where morph = fmap morph`
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12:16:31 <gensyst> I'm looking for a way to version a type in a simple but future-proof way, such that at deserialization (sometime in the future) I can "keep trying" until I "find the right version".
12:16:32 <gensyst> Here's my current thinking: (1) For cases where the types differ enough for deserialization to fail, there is nothing to do. (2) For the remaining cases (where the types are similar enough for deserialization to succeed), how do I artificially cause the deserialization to fail as appropriate?
12:17:04 <gensyst> What versioning trickery to use?
12:17:12 <dminuoso> Keep a version information in the format itself.
12:17:26 <dminuoso> Say a byte header that denotes a kind of serialization format version.
12:17:33 <gensyst> hmmk
12:17:48 <dminuoso> It's robust and future proof. Do this also when you dont expect the format to change.
12:18:19 <gensyst> So obvious lol, thank you!
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12:19:30 <dminuoso> Ah and I can even generalize the isomorphic thing above. `instance (Functor f, Isomorphic s t) => Isomorphic (f s) (f t) where iso = fmap iso`
12:19:34 <dminuoso> Beautiful
12:19:53 <dminuoso> This nicely pierces through `IO (Maybe IPv4)`
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12:40:41 <Jadesheit[m]> is there an idiom for traverse print
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12:44:09 <boxscape_> For converting HsExpr to TH, what is the reason a Core expression has to be run that produces the TH Exp, rather than directly traversing the AST and transforming it into TH?
12:44:22 <boxscape_> actually meant to ask in #ghc but people here might know too
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12:45:53 <Axman6> Jadesheit[m]: for_ print? :)
12:46:04 <Axman6> @hoogle for_
12:46:04 <lambdabot> Data.Foldable for_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => t a -> (a -> f b) -> f ()
12:46:04 <lambdabot> System.Directory.Internal.Prelude for_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => t a -> (a -> f b) -> f ()
12:46:04 <lambdabot> Distribution.Compat.Prelude.Internal for_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => t a -> (a -> f b) -> f ()
12:46:30 <Axman6> @hoogle (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f ()
12:46:31 <lambdabot> Data.Foldable traverse_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f ()
12:46:31 <lambdabot> System.Directory.Internal.Prelude traverse_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f ()
12:46:31 <lambdabot> Distribution.Compat.Prelude.Internal traverse_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f ()
12:46:44 <Axman6> traverse_ is really what I meant
12:47:26 <dminuoso> Jadesheit[m]: What do you want that could possibly be more idiomatic than `traverse_ print`?
12:47:46 <Jadesheit[m]> something shorter for golfing haha
12:47:55 <dminuoso> Shorter than using 2 variables. Huh.
12:48:25 <dminuoso> You said idiomatic, not maximally small in terms of _ (characters? variables?)
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12:48:34 <Jadesheit[m]> mapM print works
12:48:40 <Axman6> mapM_ print is better
12:48:57 <Jadesheit[m]> Axman6: longer for golfing ;)
12:49:02 <dminuoso> traverse looks and reads nicer *shrugs*
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13:42:28 <eldritchcookie[4> i have events, they can be any of 20+ types, each has data specific to the event i currently have a known event constructor with EventType and KnownEventData and unknownEvent is there some way to prevent a eventType from havbing wrong data besides doing 20 constructors?
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13:51:40 <jean-paul[m]> I have a test suite that uses the Paths_... module. This works fine with cabal test. But if I try to run the test executable directly then the paths come out wrong (pointing way down into dist-newstyle). How do I control what's in Paths_...?
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13:53:04 <Axman6> > generalCategory '¢'
13:53:06 <lambdabot> CurrencySymbol
13:53:13 <Axman6> > generalCategory '$'
13:53:15 <lambdabot> CurrencySymbol
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14:01:11 <fendor[m]> eldritch cookie GADTs with phantom types, maybe?
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14:02:18 <dminuoso> `withCStringLen :: String -> (CStringLen -> IO a) -> IO a` is there an equivalent primitive for Text?
14:03:30 <Hecate> dminuoso: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.4.0/docs/Data-Text-Foreign.html#v:withCStringLen
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14:03:47 <dminuoso> Hecate: Ah hah. I looked at maybe 10 modules, but that one I mentally skipped over.
14:03:49 <dminuoso> Thanks.
14:04:00 <Hecate> 👍 :)
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14:06:44 <stefan-_> ByteString.readFile "large.xml" errors with "heap overflow" in IHaskell, in "stack ghci" it works
14:06:47 <stefan-_> any ideas?
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14:10:09 <Axman6> which ByteString module?
14:10:54 <stefan-_> Axman6, Data.ByteString
14:11:17 <Axman6> there's a package which can mmap a file into a bytestring, which would likely avoid that
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14:11:45 <Axman6> (that's probably what readFile should do if the file is very large...)
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14:17:42 <Axman6> ok I assumed there'd be something more recent, but I've used https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-mmap in the past; I wonder if it still compiles
14:19:59 <stefan-_> Axman6, it is a bit weird that it works in ghci, but not in IHaskell
14:20:12 <tv> i've used the slightly more recent mmap package recently
14:20:25 <stefan-_> maybe there is a memory setting, which can be tuned
14:25:37 <Axman6> stefan-_: I would imagine IHaskell would intentionally have a restricted heap allocation
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14:32:41 <stefan-_> Axman6, I think I found it, there is a -M3g flag in the kernel.json specification
14:35:59 <Axman6> sounds likely - how big is the file anyway? and what're you doing with it?
14:39:28 <stefan-_> Axman6, it is 3.7G, I wanted to compare the memory usage against Python's lxml
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14:41:14 <stefan-_> the lxml DOM takes about 40GB, xeno DOM requires only 12GB
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15:14:34 <eldritchcookie[4> a c unsigned integer is represented as Word correct?
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15:15:11 <merijn> Mu
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15:16:09 <merijn> There's a lot of problems with that question :)
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15:17:15 <merijn> Such as C doesn't actually specify the representation of unsigned integers and also Word is completely unspecified and both depend on the platform you're talking about
15:17:30 <merijn> For purposes of FFI the real answer is: use CUInt
15:18:20 <eldritchcookie[4> which normal haskell type would best be used to represent it after marshaling?
15:18:32 <mauke> well, assuming you mean an "unsigned int". C has multiple unsigned integer types
15:19:08 <merijn> eldritchcookie[4: Define "normal" Haskell tyoe
15:19:15 <merijn> CUInt *is* a normal haskell type
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15:20:02 <eldritchcookie[4> normally used, we don't just use CUInt in our programs normally i want a idiomatic haskell type
15:20:24 <merijn> I'm not sure what idiomatic Haskell even means in this context
15:20:44 <merijn> If you wanna talk to C, the idiomatic thing to do is: use CUInt
15:20:54 <merijn> Like, that's *literally* what it's for
15:21:12 <merijn> Any alternative is just gonna boil down to: manually trying to cover all the stuff CUInt does
15:21:57 <eldritchcookie[4> by idiomatic i mean when you want a non negative integer type which one do you use?
15:22:16 <boxscape_> Natural?
15:22:20 <merijn> Int xD
15:22:31 <mauke> size_t
15:22:38 <merijn> Everytime I think using Word/Natural is a great idea it comes back to bite me in the ass
15:22:58 <boxscape_> :(
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15:23:53 <eldritchcookie[4> ok can i safely convert CUInt to Int or will i need to change all types to Integer?
15:24:31 <merijn> No
15:24:39 <mauke> from a C point of view, CUInt can be arbitrarily large and Int might be only 30 bits
15:24:40 <merijn> Since Haskell report only guarantees 28 bits for Int
15:24:51 <mauke> well, s/C/C and Haskell standard/
15:24:54 <merijn> mauke: Pretty sure it's only 27 or 28 bits:p
15:25:38 <mauke> haddock for Int says "A fixed-precision integer type with at least the range `[-2^29 .. 2^29-1]`."
15:25:42 <boxscape_> just to be clear, CUInt is guaranteed to be the same size as unsigned int though?
15:26:04 <merijn> boxscape_: Well, define guaranteed ;) But yeah, it's a bug if it's not :p
15:26:14 <boxscape_> right I was close to putting guaranteed into quotes :D
15:28:13 <eldritchcookie[4> ok better question what type can i use to minimize conversions for users of my library?
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15:30:11 <eldritchcookie[4> assuming i can potentially receive any valid CUInt from the C side?
15:30:45 <mauke> String
15:31:06 <mauke> otherwise they'd have to convert it every time they print it
15:32:11 <merijn> eldritchcookie[4: Minimal conversions would be just using CUInt :p
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15:41:08 <eldritchcookie[4> users of my library the conversions i do i do not care
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15:42:13 <eldritchcookie[4> ok my internet was down for a minute what integral type should i use if i want users of my library to do minimal conversions?
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15:46:17 <geekosaur> I think if you're looking for "minimal conversions" you're using the wrong language
15:47:52 <merijn> ooh...this looks neat: https://github.com/stevana/bits-and-bobs#readme
15:48:21 <merijn> I made an ad hoc implementation of something like that a while ago, but that was kinda hacky
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15:53:30 <eldritchcookie[4> ok i am not looking for minimal conversions i want users to feel as if the library was a pure haskell one and make the c code an implementation detail so which type should a non negative number be?
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15:56:55 <boxscape_> seems like it probably depends on what the number represents
15:57:06 <boxscape_> i don't have a lot of experience with making C bindings though
15:58:08 <geekosaur> a Haskell developer would use Word (64 bits) or Natural (unbounded) normally. but if combination with signed types is expected they may use Int/Integer
15:58:51 <geekosaur> (I consider the latter a bad idea since it'll fail badly if it actually needs that extra bit, but it doesn't seem to bother some developers)
15:59:05 <eldritchcookie[4> ok the type is supposed to be an id i probably should newtype CUInt right?
16:00:08 <boxscape_> that seems like a good idea
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16:20:01 <ncf> int-e: i may have taken our discussion too far https://gist.github.com/ncfavier/3085a2a2a72c5ea83291204fcf6d56ad
16:21:18 <ncf> (if you add internal parametricity somehow you can even get ℕ ≃ MEndo directly, naturality being "for free")
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16:25:21 <int-e> ncf: I don't know what you mean by "too far". This goes in a different direction, but I think it ventures a bit further: https://www.isa-afp.org/entries/Goodstein_Lambda.html
16:26:35 <int-e> (One could try *that* in Agda... I think the type system would be strong enough.)
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16:33:09 <ncf> cool
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21:07:29 <DigitalKiwi> anyone want to help me with this nerd snipe i got on christmas from one of my friends
21:08:10 <DigitalKiwi> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ap7Q1OKE4r7GgY4jmWkTq6s8wFY6Cg?e=gqeI7b
21:08:49 <DigitalKiwi> someone said it's probably a linear regression?
21:08:59 <DigitalKiwi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_regression
21:09:06 <DigitalKiwi> https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Essays/Linear_Regression
21:09:13 <DigitalKiwi> and gave me those links but i am lost lol
21:11:50 <DigitalKiwi> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/htdsqj962xfe9p558clbm/signal-2022-12-25-081714.jpeg.ods?dl=0&rlkey=sljteolye33o77w8ccpp110i1 here's a spreadsheet with the data easier to work with than a screenshot lol
21:12:37 <DigitalKiwi> could this be helpful https://hackage.haskell.org/package/statistics-linreg
21:13:40 <DigitalKiwi> or this https://hackage.haskell.org/package/regression-simple
21:13:58 <shapr> Is there a good way to search for typeclass instances? Does Hoogle do that?
21:14:04 <shapr> howdy kiwi
21:14:29 <DigitalKiwi> hey shapr :D
21:14:36 <DigitalKiwi> long time
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21:16:41 <DigitalKiwi> shapr: what're you looking for
21:18:59 <[exa]> DigitalKiwi: sounds ugly lot like anova
21:19:34 <[exa]> (spoiler: all tricky business logic lead to anova and you may spend explaining years and years that anova is BS but they will still believe in it)
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21:51:06 <eldritchcookie[4> for some reason c2hs is importing as the wrong type
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21:52:37 <eldritchcookie[4> actually is there any way to make it not choke whenever i have a module importing another via {#import #}
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21:59:54 <eldritchcookie[4> besides reordering my exposed modules?
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22:44:23 × ubert quits (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf264e3ba430b09a3aa3621d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:44:24 ub is now known as ubert
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23:55:12 cheater_ is now known as cheater
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All times are in UTC on 2023-01-13.