Logs on 2023-01-19 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:01:38 | <Guest75> | geekosaur, yes, DeriveGeneric worked very nicely for me with "normal" recursive type |
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| 00:03:14 | <Guest75> | deriving 1 typeclasses sounds cool |
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| 00:04:25 | <Guest75> | I was also thinking to implement 2 types — fixed and unfixed sort of separately. and have a conversion from "manually" defined fixed type to/from (Fix ListF) [or what it is]. That also seems to solve my problem |
| 00:06:33 | <geekosaur> | is that the Base type family jackdk mentioned, perhaps? |
| 00:07:08 | <Guest75> | ah, cool. if that's what it automates then nice :-) |
| 00:07:19 | <Guest75> | need to learn about type families |
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| 01:25:21 | <tsandstr> | Newb question: |
| 01:25:21 | <tsandstr> | Suppose I have some `Monad m` and a type with a data constuctor `Thing : Int -> Bool -> Thing`. Then I can define `foo : m Int -> m Bool -> m Thing` by `foo = liftM2 Thing`. But what if instead Thing is defined using (tradional) record syntax? Is there a clever way to lift the data constructor in this way while preserving the nicenesses of record syntax? |
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| 01:27:08 | <geekosaur> | record syntax is just standard syntax with automatically defined accessors; liftA2/liftM2 still works, and is a common pattern |
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| 01:28:14 | <monochrom> | Do you prefer "liftM2 (\i b -> Thing{intfield=i, boolfield=b})"? Because that's the only way to get record syntax involved. |
| 01:29:15 | <tsandstr> | geekosaur: I suppose the example I described above doesn't quite demonstrate my goal. Before I added in the monadic context, I had something that looks like `foo = Thing {fieldA = 1, fieldB = True}`. |
| 01:29:32 | <tsandstr> | But now the 1 and the `True` are wrapped in a monadic context so this is a pain |
| 01:29:45 | <geekosaur> | that is the same as Thing Int Bool, though |
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| 01:29:51 | <jackdk> | I think I can get you something, stdby |
| 01:30:20 | <geekosaur> | so `liftM2 Thing` still works, unless you're trying to use record update syntax to assign the fields |
| 01:30:22 | <tsandstr> | Indeed, it is the same thing, but I actually have about 15 different fields, and I don't want the code to be sensitive to the order in which they happen to be listed in the type constructor |
| 01:31:11 | <monochrom> | Thank God liftM15 doesn't exist yet. |
| 01:33:18 | <geekosaur> | this sounds vaguely like the ApplicativeDo / RecordWildCards thing |
| 01:33:23 | <jackdk> | tsandstr: These are the idioms I like to use when assembling records in a monadic context: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/M1i564sm/Records.hs |
| 01:33:28 | <jackdk> | geekosaur: indeed |
| 01:34:38 | <tsandstr> | jackdk: So, essentially, you suggest just wrapping everything up in do notation and unwrapping each field value individually before shoving them into the record? |
| 01:35:15 | <tsandstr> | I had hoped that the beautiful language (TM) of Haskell would admit something nicer than that, but I suppose it will have to do |
| 01:35:35 | <jackdk> | tsandstr: Yes. There is also the so-called "higher-kinded data" approach, where you put a `f :: Type -> Type` parameter into your record: `data Thing f = Thing { foo :: f String, bar :: f Int }`, but it's kinda niche and not that well-adopted. If you call yourself a newbie, I'd stick with what I've put in the snippet above - that's an idiom we use at work and it works fine for us |
| 01:35:53 | <geekosaur> | records are one of the uglier parts of the otherwise beautiful language |
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| 01:36:35 | <geekosaur> | could probably automate it with Generics and some head-banging |
| 01:36:47 | <jackdk> | Speaking of banging, someone just released https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monadic-bang-0.1.0.0 , but I haven't tried it on anything, let alone record expressions |
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| 01:37:14 | <tsandstr> | jackdk: Ah, I see that I glossed over the RecordWildcards bit, which cleans much of it up |
| 01:37:59 | <jackdk> | tsandstr: I am generally pretty careful with `-XRecordWildcards` because it means changing data types can cause variable clashes and other weirdness. But here it seems like a good idiom. |
| 01:38:37 | <tsandstr> | jackdk: Alright, thank you for the help! I'll give it a whirl and see if it seems to cause any undesirable behavior |
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| 01:39:29 | <jackdk> | I doubt it will, we do it a fair amount at work. |
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| 01:43:42 | <tsandstr> | I am working on a little toy project to parse theme files for xfwm and turn them into window decorations for XMonad |
| 01:43:54 | <tsandstr> | And these parser combinators have just gotten so complicated :P |
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| 02:28:26 | <Umeaboy> | Is the build progress supposed to be going from 99% back to 84% and then back up towards 99% again? Sorry if I seem dumb, but I want to know if this is a normal behavior or not. It's still continuing so I guess it's normal, but I'm not sure. |
| 02:29:07 | <Umeaboy> | It's been building for over 3 hours so far. |
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| 02:54:39 | <sm> | Umeaboy: I don't remember seeing fluctuating percentage.. curious what you're watching - are you building GHC |
| 02:54:40 | <sm> | ? |
| 02:54:59 | <Umeaboy> | sm: Yes. |
| 02:55:24 | <Umeaboy> | hadrian/build was my latest command before the build process began. |
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| 02:56:16 | <sm> | ah, I'm not familiar with their special build tools.. #ghc would know if you don't get an answer. 3 hours sounds possible, but hopefully it is making progress and not overflowing memory into swap |
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| 03:28:20 | <jackdk> | I dunno if it's different to the build system which goes into releases, but I compiled GHC 9.2.4 last night and it did not take that long. |
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| 03:34:32 | <sm> | top would tell more. Normally ~4G ram is recommended |
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| 04:29:19 | <Inst> | hmmm |
| 04:29:21 | <Inst> | how does this work |
| 04:29:33 | <Inst> | type Blue :: (Type,Type) -> Type |
| 04:29:36 | <Inst> | data Blue a |
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| 04:40:45 | <tsandstr> | Running into some strange problems that I dont quite understand. For context, I am hacking around in xmonad-contrib. I am trying to make use of the `filepath` and `directory` packages, both of which are included under `build-depends` in xmonad-contrib.cabal. However, when I try to `import System.OsPath` in my module, I get an error reading "Could not find module ‘System.OsPath’" and "It is not a module in the cu |
| 04:40:45 | <tsandstr> | rrent program, or in any known package." Any ideas as to what could be causing this behavior? |
| 04:44:28 | <jackdk> | tsandstr: OsPath only came in in `1.4.100.0`, so if you add that version constraint you'll either download new versions of the libraries or get a message why cabal won't select that version for you |
| 04:48:03 | <tsandstr> | jackdk: Aha! That makes perfect sense. Where would I have looked to find that information myself? |
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| 04:49:38 | <jackdk> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/filepath links to the changelog and if you're lucky things are in there, otherwise you can click around the different versions on hackage |
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| 04:49:53 | <tsandstr> | jackdk: Gotcha. 'Preciate it! |
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| 05:04:23 | <jackdk> | Specifically `filepath ^>=1.4.100.0` or `filepath >=1.4.100.0 && <1.5` |
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| 06:20:29 | jrm2 | is now known as jrm |
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| 06:26:24 | <maerwald[m]> | tsandstr: filepath is a boot library shipped with GHC. GHC doesn't ship this version yet. You can update to a newer one, but cabal usually prefers the version shipped witH GHC |
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| 20:56:28 | <monochrom> | Ooohhh w00t SPJ's birthday (yesterday actually; I am reading HWN and know now) and his "what I love about the haskell community" https://discourse.haskell.org/t/what-i-love-about-the-haskell-community/5611 |
| 20:57:23 | <Rembane> | \o/ |
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| 21:04:45 | <raehik> | I have two `IO ()`s that may be done in any order, and can return when both are finished. How can I tell Haskell this, instead of `>>`ing them together? |
| 21:05:02 | <geekosaur> | <*>? |
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| 21:05:29 | <c_wraith> | monochrom: aww, that's really touching. Thanks for bringing that up. |
| 21:05:51 | <raehik> | geekosaur: no they're not intrinsically sequential |
| 21:05:54 | <glguy> | raehik: if they can be done in any order, then >> works, because it will pick one of those orders |
| 21:05:57 | <c_wraith> | raehik: do you want to run them concurrently? |
| 21:06:03 | <glguy> | if you want to do them concurrently try the async package |
| 21:06:30 | <raehik> | ideally I'd leave it up to the runtime system to figure out how to run them |
| 21:06:38 | <geekosaur> | <*> was wrong anyway, type-wise, but note that Applicative is conceptually "in parallel" instead of sequential |
| 21:06:38 | <c_wraith> | in fact, the combinator is even conveniently named: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/async-2.2.4/docs/Control-Concurrent-Async.html#v:concurrently |
| 21:06:59 | <c_wraith> | or, well. concurrently_ is better |
| 21:07:19 | <raehik> | glguy: what do you mean by (>>) picking one order? I thought it explicitly meant "do A, then do B" |
| 21:07:36 | <glguy> | raehik: it does, but if you don't care which order they happnen in , then >>'s order is just fine |
| 21:07:48 | <raehik> | right |
| 21:07:52 | <c_wraith> | raehik: automatic parallelism doesn't really work. So in Haskell, you need to pick which you want |
| 21:08:54 | <raehik> | c_wraith: thanks, that's what I'm looking for (ish). interesting to see whether concurrency will speed it up at all |
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| 21:09:46 | <mauke> | `b <- randomIO; if b then x >> y else y >> x` |
| 21:10:02 | <c_wraith> | there are some libraries like haxl that try to automatically parallelize as much as they can, but they mostly work when all the long-running actions are blocked on IO rather than computation |
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| 21:29:18 | <EvanR> | since they are both IO, it's quite possible doing them concurrently speeds things up greatly. For example if they are both IO bound |
| 21:29:53 | <EvanR> | like if it does an IO request, and waits a minimum time for the response before crunching numbers quickly |
| 21:30:11 | <EvanR> | concurrency would speed that up even if you only have 1 measily CPU |
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| 22:01:51 | <Jadesheit[m]> | haskells runtime does not automatically parralelize, right? |
| 22:02:03 | <Jadesheit[m]> | why not, given that purity would allow for this |
| 22:03:10 | <glguy> | It's not obvious which parallelizations would actually help and which would hurt |
| 22:03:15 | <geekosaur> | because there has been a lot of research into automatic parallelization and it's all gonr nowhere |
| 22:03:54 | <Jadesheit[m]> | mhm |
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| 22:24:14 | <jean-paul[m]> | syntax error to put comments between a function definition line and its first guard? 🤔 |
| 22:27:40 | <geekosaur> | normal comment or haddock markup? |
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| 22:29:37 | <geekosaur> | (it seems to work here) |
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| 22:48:41 | <mixphix> | hello! i have two DataKind-ed types that I want to use to tag a value, e.g. `Tagged @(t1 :: k1), (t2 :: k2)) val`, but I get a type error complaining that `k1` and `k2` must be `Type`. I've tried with tuples and lists. Is there a higher-kinded version of tuples? |
| 22:49:02 | <mixphix> | s/@(/@(( |
| 22:49:42 | <mixphix> | i mean kind-agnostic, not higher-kinded |
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| 22:51:03 | <mixphix> | nested `Tagged @t1 (Tagged @t2 val)` works but it's rather verbose |
| 22:54:49 | <mixphix> | ah, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/45931774/kind-polymorphic-tuples |
| 22:54:51 | <mixphix> | sorry to bother |
| 22:55:44 | <mixphix> | my fault for not liking the ticks on promoted constructors :) |
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| 23:05:56 | <bjourne> | Without flags, the command "cabal install" doesn't expose libraries in a usable manner. You might have wanted to run "cabal install --lib split". |
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| 23:06:21 | <bjourne> | but then if you run "cabal install --lib split" nothing happens |
| 23:11:01 | <monochrom> | Something happened but behind your back. You will find that in raw ghci you have access to Data.List.Split now because of the --lib command. |
| 23:11:22 | <geekosaur> | it may report that nothing was built, because it was already in the store. but you should now have a .ghc-environment file |
| 23:11:29 | <geekosaur> | which ghci will find |
| 23:11:44 | <monochrom> | This is because, as you said, the non--lib command earlier didn't expose it. Well, then afterwards the --lib command exposed it, no need to rebuild. |
| 23:12:09 | <geekosaur> | sorry, .ghc.environment-<arch>-<ghcver> |
| 23:12:30 | <geekosaur> | sorry, .ghc.environment.<arch>-<ghcver> |
| 23:12:32 | <geekosaur> | (sheesh) |
| 23:12:40 | <geekosaur> | always get that name wrong |
| 23:13:02 | <monochrom> | Alternatively you can just run ghci and then notice the line "Loaded package environment from" and it has the pathname. :) |
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| 23:46:26 | <c_wraith> | another option that's reasonable is `cabal repl -b split` |
| 23:46:48 | <c_wraith> | let cabal manage what libraries are installed and available separately and on-demand |
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All times are in UTC on 2023-01-19.