Logs on 2023-01-29 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 08:06:08 | <Inst_> | [exa] I can't run pkg-config |
| 08:06:22 | <Inst_> | ehhh, back to being depressed about Haskell |
| 08:06:42 | <Inst_> | working with a Clojurist who's happy working in Python, especially since Python being bad makes him money when he's hired to clean up |
| 08:06:55 | <Inst_> | I literally can't get the Haskell cleaner than the Python version |
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| 09:17:25 | <sm> | darn.. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pager, or terminfo, is not well supported on windows |
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| 10:38:14 | <Inst_> | GHCI will not spark, right? |
| 10:38:23 | Inst_ | is now known as Inst |
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| 10:38:55 | <Inst> | In informal benchmarks I've done with GHCI, I don't see any performance improvements |
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| 10:43:41 | <Inst> | also, is a vector of vectors a bad idea in Haskell? |
| 10:43:56 | <Inst> | like, I can have a vector containing vectors that are 3 elements long, 8 elements long |
| 10:44:02 | <Inst> | am I going to end up recreating the vector if I do this? |
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| 13:00:34 | <[exa]> | Inst: what is the python vs haskell problem btw? |
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| 13:03:11 | <[exa]> | Inst: anyway, re that package and pkg-config -- you're hitting windows tooling problems, mostly because windows tooling just sucks at a level that is absolutely incomparable to anything sane, and only very limited amount of people are willing to deal with that. And these might not really include the cpython package devs (and I think their decision would be the reasonable one). Just go for WSL. :] |
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| 14:49:57 | <h2017> | hi |
| 14:50:06 | <geekosaur> | hello |
| 14:50:37 | <h2017> | hi've been reading worrying things about haskell's decline in popularity? how worried should i be as someone who wants to create thing in haskell? |
| 14:51:35 | <h2017> | someone who wants to create things in haskell but doesn't necessarily want to invest if haskell is going to stop being a thing |
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| 14:54:37 | <geekosaur[m]> | Pandoc isn't going away |
| 14:55:48 | <geekosaur[m]> | I know Facebook just retired their Haskell based spam detector but they also have a new Haskell project |
| 14:56:55 | <geekosaur[m]> | That article you saw on Reddit didn't tell the whole story |
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| 15:37:10 | <gqplox[m]> | I'm looking to build a terminal app |
| 15:37:35 | <gqplox[m]> | Is there something to haskell as rich to python, or bubble tea to go? |
| 15:38:21 | <geekosaur> | brick? |
| 15:39:21 | <geekosaur> | or or vty for the underlying TUI implementation |
| 15:45:27 | <gqplox[m]> | Ah nice, thank you |
| 15:45:48 | <maerwald> | gqplox[m]: doesn't support windows though |
| 15:46:46 | <gqplox[m]> | Would you recommend haskell for this? Im learning both haskell and rust atm and I want to make a terminal app which will also interact with an sqlite3 database. Which do you think would be better |
| 15:46:58 | <gqplox[m]> | Ah thanks, good to know. I use mac so I should be fine there |
| 15:49:12 | <geekosaur> | honestly I think I'd say try both. we do have sqlite-simple, or various weird type level sql interfaces that I don't really recommend because type level's just a pain in Haskell |
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| 16:04:54 | <[exa]> | gqplox[m]: btw any hint on what the terminal app is about? that might make the correct decision much easier |
| 16:05:17 | <gqplox[m]> | Do you know the app Anki? |
| 16:05:39 | <gqplox[m]> | It will be a terminal version of that, but with limited scope |
| 16:06:02 | <gqplox[m]> | Basically a simple flashcard app, where the front and back will be plaintext/markdown (so i need to show italic, bold, bullet points etc to the terminal) |
| 16:07:06 | <[exa]> | ah yes brick + sqlite-simple should be perfect for that |
| 16:07:23 | <[exa]> | I'd expect most problems with rendering the markdown to the terminal but there might be another library for doing that |
| 16:09:07 | <sm> | pandoc can render to txt, though it's a huge dependency |
| 16:10:06 | <[exa]> | ah nice, this should do https://hackage.haskell.org/package/brick-0.65/docs/Brick-Markup.html |
| 16:10:37 | <[exa]> | and yeah, I guess there should be a more lightweight markdown parser than pandoc out there |
| 16:10:48 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hascard might be something to look at for inspiration |
| 16:11:19 | <gqplox[m]> | Rich is very nice for python, for example here is about 5 lines of code, it has a Markdown class to render and a table class for showing to the terminal |
| 16:11:20 | <gqplox[m]> | https://imgur.com/a/LSThHi9 |
| 16:11:40 | <gqplox[m]> | I would want to do it in haskell just to improve my skills |
| 16:11:49 | <gqplox[m]> | But something similar to that |
| 16:11:57 | <gqplox[m]> | Ah thanks, il l look at that |
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| 18:36:46 | <Jadeitits[m]> | I'm doing some trying-out with dependent types and I have a type family `(>)` which is essentially a comparison between two `Nat`s. |
| 18:36:46 | <Jadeitits[m]> | How can I incorporate this into the signature of `Cons :: forall (n :: Nat) (s :: Nat) (t :: Nat). SNat n -> Sorted s t -> Sorted ('S s) n` to statically ensure the vector is sorted in ascending order? |
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| 18:37:47 | <Jadeitits[m]> | right now the vectors second type parameter just "stores" the value of the latest value and I was wondering how to use this to verify a new value is bigger than it |
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| 18:52:16 | <[exa]> | Jadeitits[m]: depends on your (>) probably. What does it "return" ? |
| 18:53:42 | <Jadeitits[m]> | Bool |
| 18:53:53 | <Jadeitits[m]> | type family (>) (x :: Nat) (y :: Nat) :: Bool where |
| 18:53:53 | <Jadeitits[m]> | 'Z > _ = 'False |
| 18:53:53 | <Jadeitits[m]> | _ > 'Z = 'True |
| 18:53:53 | <Jadeitits[m]> | ('S x) > ('S y) = x > y |
| 18:55:13 | <[exa]> | ok so you need to patternmatch on the Bool so that you can (somehow) convert the 'False to a typelevel failure |
| 18:56:11 | <[exa]> | (on a side note, MPTCs might be much better for failing at typelevel) |
| 18:56:28 | <Jadeitits[m]> | [exa]: What would that roughly look like? |
| 18:56:37 | <Jadeitits[m]> | [exa]: I don't know what this means |
| 18:56:44 | <[exa]> | multiparameter type classes |
| 18:56:53 | <Jadeitits[m]> | how does it work? |
| 18:57:03 | <[exa]> | you know how normal typeclasses work? |
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| 18:57:29 | <Jadeitits[m]> | yes |
| 18:58:44 | <[exa]> | ok, so multiparameter ones just have more parameters. Which is nice because you can easily use that for typelevel programming (just as type families), but typeclasses additionally have a "nice" form of failing (instance doesn't exist) |
| 18:59:01 | <Jadeitits[m]> | mhm ok |
| 18:59:05 | <[exa]> | MPTC programming is basically a restricted prolog, the best tutorial is ironically this one: https://aphyr.com/posts/342-typing-the-technical-interview |
| 18:59:37 | <Jadeitits[m]> | Thank you |
| 18:59:50 | <[exa]> | anyway, with type families I kinda guess you might make it work by making a "check the type" function |
| 19:00:06 | <[exa]> | hand-wavy example: |
| 19:01:47 | <[exa]> | type family CheckNumbersAreReallyBigger (smaller::Nat) (bigger::Nat) t :: t where { (bigger > smaller) ~ 'False = t } |
| 19:02:04 | <[exa]> | not sure if ghc won't complain about a partial type family tho |
| 19:03:35 | <Jadeitits[m]> | `error: Not in scope: type variable 't'` |
| 19:03:50 | <Jadeitits[m]> | hmm, isn't it defined in the signature above? |
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| 19:04:03 | <[exa]> | I guess you may need to add a kind to it with :: |
| 19:04:18 | <Jadeitits[m]> | t :: *? |
| 19:04:24 | <[exa]> | (I didn't really touch type families for like a year now, hoping others might intervene :D ) |
| 19:04:27 | <[exa]> | yes |
| 19:04:33 | <Jadeitits[m]> | same error |
| 19:04:36 | <Lears> | Can't you just do `Cons :: (t > n) ~ 'True => ...`? |
| 19:05:27 | <[exa]> | ah wait I didn't actually patternmatch there |
| 19:05:37 | <[exa]> | my fail, sorry |
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| 19:11:58 | <[exa]> | kinda wondering, is there even a way to force * ~ * check in a type family instance? |
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| 19:15:07 | <Jadeitits[m]> | <Lears> "Can't you just do `Cons :: (t..." <- This worked! |
| 19:15:25 | Jadeitits[m] | uploaded an image: (25KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/CrzjRWsZBsBQDOcgpYNVhNgk/image.png > |
| 19:15:25 | <Jadeitits[m]> | Very cool, this seems to be very powerful |
| 19:15:27 | <ddellacosta> | let me know if this would be better for a nix channel, but wondering if anyone has a fix for the error "LICENSE: copyFile: does not exist (No such file or directory)" when running 'nix build' (with a flake based on this https://magnus.therning.org/2022-03-13-simple-nix-flake-for-haskell-development.html), even when my license file clearly exists as specified by my cabal file |
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| 19:16:18 | <ddellacosta> | looks same as this, but my project is pretty vanilla without any subdirs https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/42550 |
| 19:16:39 | <ddellacosta> | (so that workaround doesn't make any sense for me) |
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| 23:06:24 | <hololeap> | instance {-# OVERLAPPABLE #-} Monad m => MonadSay (EnvT m) where |
| 23:06:31 | <hololeap> | instance {-# OVERLAPPING #-} MonadSay (EnvT IO) where |
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| 23:07:05 | <hololeap> | I get an error about overlapping instances here: Monad m => EnvT m (Set Cabal.PackageId, Set FilePath) |
| 23:07:36 | <hololeap> | what can I do about this, other than just get rid of that first instance? |
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| 23:09:49 | <hololeap> | basically, I want `MonadSay (EnvT IO)` to be the special case and anything else to fallback to the first instance |
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| 23:10:36 | <hololeap> | here's the full error: http://sprunge.us/xCb2rL |
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| 23:15:18 | <hololeap> | adding IncoherentInstances to both modules didn't change the error |
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| 23:53:27 | <Nolrai> | Hey, so I used to use summoner for making new projects in Haskell, but it hasn't been updated since 2020, should I use a cabal-install template or what? |
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All times are in UTC on 2023-01-29.