Logs on 2023-03-28 (liberachat/#haskell)

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04:09:01	<Guest87>	yo are ther rules I can see anywhere
04:09:18	<Guest87>	For example is there a rule against finding someone I could pay for tutoring
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04:17:48	<sm>	Guest87: probably on the haskell wiki
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04:18:26	<sm>	nothing wrong with asking that, people sometimes ask on reddit
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08:27:04	<geekosaur>	http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/IRC_channel re rules
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08:29:17	<hololeap>	I've got a pretty niche problem, but there's a haskell exe I'm working on that cannot depend on anything other than the libs bundled with GHC
08:29:47	<hololeap>	and it's got all these funky parsing functions using ByteString representations of FilePath
08:30:24	<hololeap>	so I go and replace them with Strings and parsec, and the benchmark time goes from 0m6.378s to 1m22.337s
08:31:02	<hololeap>	here are the diffs if anyone is interested: https://github.com/hololeap/haskell-updater/pull/1/files
08:31:17	<hololeap>	but are those slowdowns to be expected with parsec?
08:31:53	<hololeap>	I haven't done any profiling yet
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08:32:52	<maerwald[m]>	hololeap: String is deprecated for filepaths
08:32:53	<maerwald[m]>	Use the new OsPath API
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08:33:15	<hololeap>	isn't that only with ghc-9.6?
08:33:53	<maerwald[m]>	hololeap: filepath is reinstallable
08:33:57	<maerwald[m]>	Unless you depend on the ghc package
08:34:15	<hololeap>	right
08:34:15	<geekosaur>	"cannot depend on anything other than the libs bundled with GHC"
08:34:36	<hololeap>	yeah I won't go into the details but that's not going to be an option here
08:35:35	←	Solid parts (~slot@xmonad/slotThe) (ERC 5.4.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 30.0.50))
08:35:41	<hololeap>	I'm just a bit shocked by the change in performance
08:35:51	<geekosaur>	anyway yes, parsec is kinda slow. megaparsec is a bit better but attoparsec exists for a reason, as does flatparse
08:36:27	<hololeap>	that makes sense. I guess I'll have to stick with the weird ad-hoc bytestring parsers for now, because of the restrictions
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08:45:25	<maerwald[m]>	hololeap: https://chrisdone.com/posts/fast-haskell-c-parsing-xml/
08:45:26	<maerwald[m]>	You'll never beat ByteString primitives with any parser
08:46:06	<hololeap>	well that explains why they did it in the first place. I was really confused by that
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09:01:47	<dminuoso>	I have a bunch of potentially overlapping (time) ranges, and I want to identify all gaps that exist between the outer most points.
09:01:49	<dminuoso>	What kind of problem is this?
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09:02:13	<geekosaur>	sounds like an interval set problem?
09:02:28	<opqdonut>	interval union/intersection yeah
09:02:42	<tomsmeding>	or sort all of them first, then loop over the result in linear time
09:03:18	<dminuoso>	tomsmeding: See I dont even know how to sort intervals.
09:03:33	<mauke>	reminds me of the advent of code problem where I replaced Set by a hacked up RangeSet implementation and gained a massive speed-up
09:03:36	<dminuoso>	opqdonut: its not quite intersection, Im rather interested in where there's a lack of intersections
09:03:50	<tomsmeding>	dminuoso: right, I should have specified: in this case it suffices to sort on the starting time; within one particular starting time the order doesn't matter
09:03:54	<opqdonut>	dminuoso: yeah I was thinking of intersecting the complements or sometihng
09:04:11	<dminuoso>	Huh.
09:04:23	<tomsmeding>	actually what the algorithm would want is to get the maximum ending time of every occurring starting time, but it can handle not getting that :)
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09:04:27	<dminuoso>	That's not too bad, if you take the complement - then any overlapping intervals can be tossed out
09:04:29	<dminuoso>	What remains is the gaps
09:04:42	<dminuoso>	That may or may not simplify the problem
09:04:52	<tomsmeding>	taking the complement is a really annoying operation I think
09:05:03	<opqdonut>	if you want to do something like this incrementally, I think some sort of interval tree structure might help
09:05:17	<tomsmeding>	yeah if you want incremental then use an interval set
09:05:20	<opqdonut>	i.e. maintain a sorted search tree of disjoint intervals, merge them when adding an interval
09:05:55	<mauke>	dminuoso: here's what I used for advent of code: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/354OJRCy
09:06:06	<mauke>	the gaps are computed via set difference from the full span
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09:14:10	<tomsmeding>	dminuoso: https://play.haskell.org/saved/Jfb5d1Wk
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09:15:25	<dminuoso>	tomsmeding: Mmm yeah Im coming down on something very similar.
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10:52:34	maerwald_	is now known as maerwald
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10:56:32	<Hecate>	@let import System.IO.Unsafe
10:56:33	<lambdabot>	/sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:141:1: error:
10:56:33	<lambdabot>	System.IO.Unsafe: Can't be safely imported!
10:56:34	<lambdabot>	The module itself isn't safe.
10:56:37	<Hecate>	hehe
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11:29:08	<tomsmeding>	% import System.IO.Unsafe
11:29:08	<yahb2>	<no output>
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12:27:35	<lyle>	What is a good Actor Model library for Haskell? I'm looking at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-actors but already I'm getting error "No instance for (Semigroup (Behavior i))" and its last commit was in 2012.
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13:25:17	<vlad>	?src ($)
13:25:17	<lambdabot>	f $ x = f x
13:25:23	<vlad>	?src compare
13:25:23	<lambdabot>	compare x y \| x == y = EQ
13:25:23	<lambdabot>	\| x <= y = LT
13:25:23	<lambdabot>	\| otherwise = GT
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13:29:12	<vlad>	?src compare
13:29:13	<lambdabot>	compare x y \| x == y = EQ
13:29:13	<lambdabot>	\| x <= y = LT
13:29:13	<lambdabot>	\| otherwise = GT
13:29:17	<vlad>	?src foldl
13:29:17	<lambdabot>	foldl f z [] = z
13:29:17	<lambdabot>	foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs
13:29:25	<vlad>	?src foldr
13:29:26	<lambdabot>	foldr f z [] = z
13:29:26	<lambdabot>	foldr f z (x:xs) = f x (foldr f z xs)
13:29:40	<vlad>	?src >>
13:29:40	<lambdabot>	m >> k = m >>= \_ -> k
13:29:44	<vlad>	?src bind
13:29:44	<lambdabot>	Source not found. Whoa.
13:29:48	<vlad>	?src
13:29:48	<lambdabot>	src <id>. Display the implementation of a standard function
13:29:51	<vlad>	?
13:29:55	<vlad>	?help
13:29:55	<lambdabot>	help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
13:30:00	<vlad>	?list
13:30:00	<lambdabot>	What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
13:30:03	<vlad>	list
13:30:09	<vlad>	@listmodules
13:30:09	<lambdabot>	activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search
13:30:09	<lambdabot>	seen slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
13:30:24	<vlad>	?help src
13:30:24	<lambdabot>	src <id>. Display the implementation of a standard function
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13:31:05	<int-e>	vlad: you can interrogate lambdabot in private chat
13:31:56	<vlad>	thanks, I'm pretty much 100% new to IRC, I'll check a FAQ / how private chat works
13:32:46	<vlad>	found it thanks
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13:35:54	<geekosaur>	https://github.com/geekosaur/lambdabot/blob/command-doc/doc/commands.md may also be of interest. (it's waiting to be merged)
13:36:29	<vlad>	is there a "code of conduct type/how to use" type of document for this channel by any chance ?
13:36:46	<vlad>	oh thanks for that link!
13:37:00	<geekosaur>	http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/IRC_channel re rules
13:37:13	<vlad>	great thanks
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13:44:10	<ski>	vlad : additionally, "Be nice, or else!" is a dictum that's been mentioned in the past
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13:57:03	<vlad>	of course ski :)
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15:51:08	<gensyst>	Does anyone here have a working flake.nix for a simple Hello world program that works with VSCode + HLS?
15:51:47	<gensyst>	I'm trying but nothing works. Even when it sort of "works", cabal starts downloading things into ~/cabal/store/ghc-9.0.2/ as soon as VSCode opens a hs file - which means it doesn't work at all.
15:51:59	<gensyst>	The non-Flakes solution worked fine for me
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16:08:31	<ncf>	gensyst: did you follow https://nixos.org/manual/nixpkgs/unstable/#haskell-shellFor ?
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16:21:07	<famubu>	Hi. I was trying to represent monomials and polynomials in haskell. I got types as `newtype Mono = Mono (Float, Int)` and `Newtype Poly = Poly [Mono]`.
16:21:12	<famubu>	Is it possible to have `Num` class instance for these types? The problem was that Addition for Mono returns a Poly instead of Mono.
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16:22:34	<geekosaur>	nope
16:23:59	<geekosaur>	you could if you made a monomial a polynomial with list length 1, because that way they'd be the same type
16:25:07	<geekosaur>	:t (+)
16:25:08	<lambdabot>	Num a => a -> a -> a
16:25:42	<geekosaur>	has to be the same `a`, not different ones
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16:27:41	<eldritchcookie[m>	hello if i want to make my application scriptable and do not want to create my own scripting language are there any options other than hslua or hint?
16:28:34	<famubu>	geekosaur: Thanks for that idea. Let me try that out.
16:29:44	<davean>	eldritchcookie[m: I think there are Javascript runtimes also
16:29:56	<davean>	and there at least WAS a python bindings
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16:31:25	<eldritchcookie[m>	yeah lua seems like the superior option
16:32:03	<geekosaur>	famubu, also are you sure you want Float there? as in C, it's fairly limited; usually you want Double
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16:45:04	<EvanR>	and I'd expect the polynomial to allow whatever "base", i.e. 3*X^2 + Y^3 + Z + 1
16:45:36	<EvanR>	oh that's implied I guess
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17:00:17	<ski>	univariate vs. multivariate (monomials and) polynomials
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17:01:00	<vlad>	hi, if I'm using ghc 9.2.5, how can I find the corresponding doc for the Prelude ?
17:02:13	<vlad>	for example here https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.18.0.0/docs/Prelude.html, it points to base-4.18. How do I know which base my ghc version corresponds to ? (or am I misunderstanding how this works?)
17:03:19	<gnalzo>	vlad: ghc-pkg list \|grep base
17:03:34	<gnalzo>	on cli
17:03:50	<vlad>	oh great thanks, noted
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17:07:43	<vlad>	gnalzo++
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17:10:00	<geekosaur>	you can also look in ghcup's list, which shows the base version corresponding to each ghc version as a tag
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17:13:35	<ski>	(fwiw, i'm personally not a fan of karma point systems)
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17:16:13	<monochrom>	It's also installed along with GHC itself, at <prefix>/share/doc/ghc-9.2.5/html/libraries/index.html
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17:17:54	<monochrom>	But if you disbelieve in everything non-cloud, on the cloud you can always reliably go to GHC's website, https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/9.2.5/docs/html/ and replace 9.2.5 with suitable version number.
17:18:40	<geekosaur>	https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history
17:19:03	<EvanR>	ski++
17:19:20	<monochrom>	haha EvanR the irony
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17:19:35	monochrom	loves ironies and puns and dad jokes etc
17:21:00	<famubu>	geekosaur: I didn't really get started (and doesn't yet enough to write it. Been hunting on youtube and github..). For coefficients, now I'm trying to leave it abstract. Like a `Poly a` type.
17:21:53	<EvanR>	instance Num a => Num (Poly a) where
17:22:16	<monochrom>	\∩/ so I can have complex number coefficients too
17:22:26	<geekosaur>	well, except that `a` here is something like `(Float, Int)`
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17:22:37	<EvanR>	a simple fix
17:22:43	<monochrom>	Nah pretty sure they know to do (a, Int).
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17:28:12	<EvanR>	you got your complex coefficients, quaternion coefficients, matrix ceofficients, surreal number coefficients, ...
17:28:38	<EvanR>	Num is the gift that keeps on giving
17:29:37	<EvanR>	> signum (1 :+ 1)
17:29:38	<lambdabot>	0.7071067811865475 :+ 0.7071067811865475
17:29:58	<famubu>	Yeah, had been looking at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAs3ExQZUjA for polynomial representations.
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17:40:13	<monochrom>	Does it also cover using Legendre polynomials for the basis? >:)
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17:41:34	<ski>	@karma- ski
17:41:34	<lambdabot>	You can't change your own karma, silly.
17:46:57	<EvanR>	Karma Is Silly --SKI
17:47:15	<EvanR>	(kiss principle)
17:48:57	<monochrom>	heh
17:49:44	<geekosaur>	pity you can't also rearrange it to pair with "ski"
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17:53:09	<tomsmeding>	you can if you add a comma
17:53:44	<tomsmeding>	what do y'all think about this new "basic template" button that does away with the example and gets you started with a minimal file? https://play.haskell.org/
17:54:24	<monochrom>	kiss : skiss :: vga : svga :)
17:55:17	<[exa]>	tomsmeding: saves a few clicks, but maybe it might be better to start off with an empty program and have the button scream "click for a demo"
17:55:27	<[exa]>	tomsmeding: other than that it's <3 lovely <3
17:55:37	<monochrom>	Wait, every time I re-launch play.haskell.org I get a randomly chosen code example?! That's really more fun than the basic template...
17:55:52	<tomsmeding>	[exa]: so you mean starting with the bare-main and having the button open the random example instead?
17:56:03	<geekosaur>	next it'll ask chatgpt to generate a basic program for you…
17:56:07	<monochrom>	Although, yeah, the default should be the basic template, add a button for a random example.
17:56:18	<tomsmeding>	that meshes less well with the button fading away automatically, and I was so happy to not have to add yet another permanent button to the toolbar
17:56:25	<tomsmeding>	monochrom: yes, it's random :)
17:56:32	<[exa]>	tomsmeding: yeah that would be the "normal" way but now that I see you have more demos there it actually also makes sense this way :D
17:56:33	<monochrom>	Oh haha that's a great idea for a second button "gpt-generate"
17:56:57	<tomsmeding>	previously it was quicksort, top-down mergesort, or bottom-up mergesort; but then someone complained https://github.com/haskell/play-haskell/issues/25
17:57:06	<tomsmeding>	monochrom: lol, but no
17:57:41	<tomsmeding>	monochrom: so you agree with [exa] now that [exa] doesn't anymore?
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17:59:59	<monochrom>	heh
18:00:19	<monochrom>	I think yes. But I also think this is a very minor thing.
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18:06:51	<tomsmeding>	for now I'm keeping it like this, thanks for the feedback all :)
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19:12:01	<pkal>	What are the argument for using case-of instead of doing case distinction on the top level, and vice versa?
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19:13:06	<jade[m]>	it can be embedded in an expression
19:13:23	<monochrom>	personal preference and style
19:13:30	<jade[m]>	+ pattern matches on the top level compile down to case expressions anyways
19:13:37	<EvanR>	you can also embed "top level" equations in an expression
19:13:46	<monochrom>	But yeah case-of is an expression, so more general and usable at more places.
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19:13:55	<EvanR>	(let f A = X; f B = Y in f foo)
19:14:04	<monochrom>	(usually)
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19:16:46	<pkal>	I was thinking about case-of right after the = of a definition. So basically just a desuggared version of what Haskell would do with definitional case distinction (or whatever it is called)
19:17:03	<EvanR>	I see the opposite sometimes
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19:17:24	<EvanR>	wrapperFun x y z = f etc where
19:17:30	<EvanR>	f A = ...
19:17:33	<EvanR>	f B = ...
19:18:31	<tomsmeding>	pkal: some people like to use 'f a b = \case ...' if the interesting case splitting is only on the last argument, because this form allows you to 1. avoid having to give a name to the scrutinised argument, like with the definitional style, and 2. avoids having to repeat 'f a b'
19:20:53	<monochrom>	Sometimes you find yourself needing "f x = case g x of ..." which doesn't really have a better alternative.
19:21:21	<tomsmeding>	except for what EvanR put, of which it's subjective whether that's "better"
19:21:42	<monochrom>	Please don't overthink it. If there is only one way you can think of, do it. If there are more ways, just use your own aesthetics. This is a very minor thing.
19:21:59	<pkal>	Ok, I was afraid this was one of those things where you read one thing in an introductory book but then everyone tells you "oh nobody actually does that".
19:22:12	<tomsmeding>	people actively do both
19:22:25	<EvanR>	each time it comes up roll dice to see which way to write it
19:22:29	<tomsmeding>	lol
19:22:42	<pkal>	monochrom: don't worry, i'm reading through some code and was wondering if there was some background i didn't know ^^
19:22:47	<tomsmeding>	if it's this die then you're fine https://xkcd.com/221/
19:22:55	<monochrom>	My personal coding style guide is a PRNG. It really doesn't matter.
19:23:33	<monochrom>	Ugh not that PRNG heh
19:25:27	<EvanR>	some 4 are more random than others
19:25:33	<EvanR>	gotta check the source
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19:26:35	<gensyst>	ncf, well i am using shellFor yes... here's my setup: https://discourse.nixos.org/t/trying-to-get-nix-flakes-haskell-hls-vscode-to-work-but-nothing-works-properly/26805
19:27:25	<gensyst>	TLDR (since I went away for some hours): Haskell/HLS/VSCode not working properly with nix flakes but was fine without flakes
19:27:28	<gensyst>	no idea why
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19:33:50	<tomsmeding>	% import System.Random
19:33:50	<yahb2>	<no output>
19:33:54	<tomsmeding>	% randomIO
19:33:54	<yahb2>	4
19:33:58	<tomsmeding>	EvanR: ^
19:34:47	<EvanR>	seems suspicious
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19:35:41	<tomsmeding>	% randomRIO (2, 10)
19:35:42	<yahb2>	4
19:35:47	<tomsmeding>	I see nothing wrong
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19:38:26	<ski>	f (g -> ...) = ...
19:39:24	<ski>	pkal : sometimes one if preferable, sometimes the other. there are good arguments for both. it depends on taste, style, situation
19:41:37	<ski>	one argument for matching in the definiendum (left-hand side) is that (in case your defining equations are non-overlapping) each defining equation can then be read is isolation, as a true statement about the defined operation
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19:42:49	<ski>	tomsmeding : fwiw, there's apparently also `\cases' now, for (curriedly) multiple parameters
19:43:02	<tomsmeding>	oh yeah that's true
19:43:13	ski	. o O ( <https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/lambda_case.html> )
19:43:33	<ski>	(although, when i tried in yahb2, it seemed something wasn't working correctly there)
19:43:38	<ski>	% :t \cases x -> x
19:43:39	<yahb2>	\cases x -> x :: p1 -> p2 -> p2
19:44:44	<ski>	it would be nice to have guarantees under which conditions `f (g -> ...) = ...; f (g -> ...) = ...; ...' would involve only a single call to `g', rather than multiple ones
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19:46:11	<tomsmeding>	ski: yahb2 runs ghc 9.2.5
19:46:33	<tomsmeding>	perhaps they mistakenly included a buggy version of \cases in there lol
19:46:43	<tomsmeding>	% \case s x -> x
19:46:43	<yahb2>	<interactive>:242:2: error: Illegal lambda-case (use LambdaCase) ; ; <interactive>:242:7: error: Parse error in pattern: s
19:46:56	<tomsmeding>	noteworthy is that the buggy syntax doesn't even seem to require LambdaCase!
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19:50:58	<tomsmeding>	mjnw
19:51:06	<tomsmeding>	oops wrong window
19:51:32	<ski>	(also compare (view patterns, and pattern synonyms) with "Active Patterns" in F# <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/fsharp/language-reference/active-patterns>, which are used to programmatically partition an input into one of several alternatives, effectively giving you a `COMPLETE' set of pattern synonyms that share common code for classifying the matched input into the partitions (pattern synonyms))
19:52:44	<ski>	% :t \cases x y -> x
19:52:44	<yahb2>	\cases x y -> x :: p1 -> p2 -> p3 -> p2
19:52:45	<ski>	% :t \cases x y -> y
19:52:46	<yahb2>	\cases x y -> y :: p1 -> p2 -> p3 -> p3
19:52:49	<ski>	% :t \cases -> ()
19:52:49	<yahb2>	\cases -> () :: p -> ()
19:53:10	<tomsmeding>	ski: I can reproduce in my local ghci 9.2.5
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19:54:33	ski	noticed `\cases', when starting to make a quasi-quoter (that parses Haskell syntax, and then does a tree-walker macro transform on the AST)
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All times are in UTC on 2023-03-28.