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Logs on 2023-04-01 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:02:55 <jwiegley> :list identifier is basically what I want, but for it to list the whole identifier and not just the top definition line
00:03:05 <jwiegley> whole definition*
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00:34:54 <talismanick> How much would it break to be able to assign different type signatures to functions as a kind of "algebraic equivalence?"
00:35:37 <talismanick> e.g. monads-as-adjunctions by rephrasing join as fmapping counit, with the attendant type signature
00:36:25 <talismanick> some kind of structural typing on steroids... is there a name for this?
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00:44:56 <EvanR> throwing principal typing out the window
00:45:10 <EvanR> which I hear is done in systems with subtypes
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00:45:37 <talismanick> EvanR: So, about where we are with GADTs?
00:46:54 <EvanR> is that the case with GADTs?
00:48:44 <talismanick> ...isn't it?
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00:49:47 <c_wraith> yes. Also RankNTypes is sufficient to remove principle types in some cases.
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02:13:14 <IRCHero> hey can I ask a basic question here?
02:14:28 <no-n> yes
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02:17:49 <IRCHero> no-n: whats the next number in this sequence?  1,3, 8, 11 13, 23, 29, 31, 37, ?
02:17:58 <IRCHero> from an IQ test
02:18:14 <no-n> are you asking me to help with your IQ test
02:24:22 <IRCHero> no-n: no it's juat a practice one
02:24:31 <IRCHero> its supposed to be easy
02:24:35 <IRCHero> I just cant figure it out
02:25:02 <IRCHero> I know the answer already
02:25:08 <IRCHero> but not the rule, do you know?
02:25:24 <no-n> oh, ok
02:25:25 <no-n> nope
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02:25:40 <no-n> I'm dumb though
02:25:42 <no-n> most people here are smart
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02:27:50 <IRCHero> no-n: can haskell help me?
02:27:56 <IRCHero> I mean, can we write a program that can solve it
02:28:08 <IRCHero> its only 9 digits not that much
02:28:18 <IRCHero> and I know Haskell is a mathematical programming language
02:28:26 <IRCHero> that is good at patterns
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02:35:00 <IRCHero> or I guess haskell is rule based too?
02:35:06 <IRCHero> like, you need to know the rule first
02:35:09 <IRCHero> to write the program
02:35:24 <IRCHero> it just makes it more superficially covenient to write that pattern?
02:35:27 <IRCHero> or am I missing somethin
02:36:50 <no-n> I don't know how to write a program that can solve a rule like that
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02:39:00 <IRCHero> well your mentally is all fucked up
02:39:09 <IRCHero> cause youre thinking in terms of 'solving' a 'rule'
02:39:14 <IRCHero> I dont think you can solve a rule
02:39:21 <IRCHero> its not an algebra prob
02:39:43 <IRCHero> where theres one solution that can be solved like a quadratic equation
02:39:48 <IRCHero> or even two
02:40:59 <IRCHero> thats a dastardly vantage point. even calling it problem 'solving' is cancerous when it comes to these types of probs
02:41:40 <probie> It's called looking for the generating program with lowest k-complexity
02:45:55 <probie> (or maybe I should say kolmogorov complexity, instead of k-complexity)
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02:48:49 <Nosrep> is the hashmap in unordered-containers a hamt
02:49:05 <no-n> IRCHero: try not to be a dick abotu it
02:51:27 <Axman6> Nosrep: I believe so
02:57:36 <Nosrep> cool
03:05:05 <hammond> IRCHero: whats the next num?
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03:07:52 <Axman6> > zipWith subtract <*> tail $ [ 1,3, 8, 11, 13, 23, 29, 31, 37]
03:07:54 <lambdabot> [2,5,3,2,10,6,2,6]
03:08:42 <Axman6> IRCHero: talking to people like that is pretty cancerous IMO, particularly when you're seeking their help
03:09:31 <talismanick> Are there any Datalog-as-database libraries in Haskell?
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03:12:27 <IRCHero> Axman6: whys that?
03:12:45 <IRCHero> I didnt ask for anyones help in particular
03:13:04 <IRCHero> I didnt say Axman6 I need your help on this specific problem
03:13:13 <Axman6> You don't see why telling someone helping you "well your mentally is all fucked up" is a problem? Maybe you should be taking an EQ test
03:13:35 <hammond> IRCHero: but whats the next number, i don't get the pattern in that sequence.
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03:14:48 <EvanR> don't ask me to help with your IQ test, your IQ will decrease
03:15:14 <EvanR> see also collective stupidity
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03:15:55 <hammond> or... cmon now, 2 5 3 4 10 in the middle whats that.
03:16:03 <hammond> then six two six
03:16:09 <IRCHero> hammond: why does it have to be one number?
03:16:13 <IRCHero> or why does a pattern have to exist?
03:16:17 <IRCHero> maybe I just made it up lol
03:16:23 <IRCHero> to prove a point
03:16:45 <IRCHero> I could tell you how I constructed it
03:16:55 <Axman6> this is feeling like a conversation from r/IAmVerySmart
03:16:59 <hammond> i study random numbers... i want to know
03:17:24 <IRCHero> hammond: so I thought to myself
03:17:33 <IRCHero> "everyone here knows prime number sequence"
03:17:40 <IRCHero> then I just added exceptions
03:17:46 <IRCHero> like 1, a composite number
03:17:55 <IRCHero> and skipped every 2nd prime for the first half
03:18:03 <IRCHero> then second half, did every 2nd prime
03:18:27 <IRCHero> then thought about flipping some random bits
03:18:29 <hammond> irc that sequence is not long enough to find that out... but alright.
03:18:31 <IRCHero> but thought was too complex
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03:19:14 <Axman6> This is like some 7th grade "you're dumb because I made something up and you didn't know it" level shit.
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03:21:09 <tusko> no u
03:22:17 <Axman6> I'm telling
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03:22:37 <hammond> IRCHero: suppose this, can you write a software that finds the 9 millionth prime number? Without iterating.
03:23:26 <Axman6> @google what is the 9 millionth prime
03:23:33 <hammond> hehehe
03:23:37 <hammond> i guess
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03:23:42 <lambdabot> Plugin `search' failed with: <<timeout>>
03:23:44 <Axman6> Damn, did we get rid of that
03:24:36 <IRCHero> hammond: i could find up to log of largest known prime
03:24:37 <IRCHero> lol
03:25:00 <IRCHero> which I think is around 9 million
03:25:12 <Axman6> that sounds unlikely
03:25:16 <IRCHero> so you could write software for it
03:25:36 <IRCHero> but would take a long time
03:25:44 <IRCHero> cause computers are dumb
03:25:45 <IRCHero> lol
03:26:40 <Axman6> > 2^82589933 - 1 -- not too hard to compute large primes
03:26:44 <IRCHero> to find beyond 9 millionth prime would be equivalent question, yes
03:26:44 <lambdabot> 1488944457420413255478064584723979166030262739927953241852712894252132393610...
03:27:38 <IRCHero> but i doubt its halting problem equivalent
03:27:42 <IRCHero> or a truly hard prob
03:27:51 <IRCHero> for only 9 digit sequence lol
03:28:09 <IRCHero> doesnt equivocate to 9 million
03:29:44 <IRCHero> surely if I asked only 2 digits
03:29:47 <IRCHero> Haskell could solve it easily
03:29:54 <hammond> well thats the thing, you know 1 then 2, then 3 is the third one, 5 is the forth one, 7 is the fifth, then to find the sixth what mechanisms other than iteration one by one would u use?
03:30:10 <IRCHero> algorithms lol
03:30:21 <IRCHero> pattern recognition
03:30:29 <Axman6> > let primes = 2 : 3 : filter isPrime [5,7..]; isPrime n = all (\x -> n `mod` x /= 0) $ takeWhile (\x -> x*x <= n) primes in primes !! 9000000
03:30:31 <IRCHero> dynamic programming
03:30:31 <hammond> sifi - coding
03:30:32 <IRCHero> for one
03:30:35 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
03:30:41 <Axman6> > let primes = 2 : 3 : filter isPrime [5,7..]; isPrime n = all (\x -> n `mod` x /= 0) $ takeWhile (\x -> x*x <= n) primes in primes !! 9000000 :: Int
03:30:47 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
03:30:52 <Axman6> :(
03:31:43 <mauke> IRCHero: -269
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03:36:50 <IRCHero> okay, so are you offended when I ask what is purpose of Haskell in face of this combinatorial complexity?
03:37:03 <IRCHero> if 9 digits gives Haskell a problem
03:37:11 <IRCHero> isnt Haskell just syntactic sugar
03:37:43 <IRCHero> its not fucking lambda calculus
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03:38:35 <mauke> are you on drugs?
03:39:09 <no-n> you mentioned you were here to prove a point. what point is that? because so far you've only proven yourself an arse.
03:39:14 <hammond> i read someonewhere haskell embodies category theory.
03:40:24 <int-e> > let ex [a] = repeat a; ex (x:xs) = scanl (+) x (ex (zipWith (-) xs (x:xs))) in ex [1,3,8,11,13,23,29,31,37]
03:40:25 <lambdabot> [1,3,8,11,13,23,29,31,37,-269,-2670,-13045,-46351,-135017,-342001,-779953,-1...
03:40:44 <Axman6> nailed it
03:41:06 <int-e> see, it agrees with what mauke said
03:41:12 <IRCHero> no-n: my point is, in some ways I 'get' the point of Haskell and admire its potential, in other ways, I don't 'get it' because I feel it inadequately addresses the combinatorial problem
03:41:16 <IRCHero> the core of mathematics
03:41:20 int-e would still go with 42 though
03:41:28 <IRCHero> which annoys me
03:41:38 <IRCHero> so its why I like C++
03:41:40 <Axman6> int-e: I think from your comments above it;'s clear you don't "get" anything to do with Haskell
03:41:42 <IRCHero> better
03:41:51 <Axman6> uh, IRCHero. int-e you're doing alright :P
03:41:55 <mauke> heh
03:42:28 <Axman6> 9 millionth prime is 160481219 btw
03:42:32 <IRCHero> C++ solved so many problems
03:42:36 <IRCHero> like fast code
03:42:42 <Axman6> C++ caused so many problems
03:42:43 <int-e> Axman6: tbh I just like instances of `scanl` and this is a good one
03:42:43 <hammond> thx Axman6
03:42:45 <hammond> lol
03:42:56 <mauke> how is fast code a problem
03:43:02 <mauke> and whats the solution
03:43:03 <Axman6> I gotchu hammond
03:43:07 <IRCHero> I mean problem was slow code
03:43:22 <int-e> C++ did not, actually, make code faster
03:43:31 <probie> So in a world before C++, all code was slow? TIL
03:43:32 <int-e> it paid heavily for all its new abstractions when compared to C
03:43:32 <mauke> oh, is that why C++ compilers are so slow
03:43:35 <Axman6> and it certainly made development slower
03:43:42 <mauke> they couldn't write a faster compiler because C++ didn't exist yet
03:43:56 <hammond> C++ is inadequate for this math problem.
03:43:59 <Axman6> probie: sure was man, sure was
03:44:25 <int-e> it made certain kinds of complex code more manageable, and it made it easy to produce multi-megabyte executables with just hundreds of lines of templates.
03:44:37 <int-e> (which were also slow to compile)
03:44:38 <Axman6> What a ridiculous take, "C++ made code fast" XD
03:45:13 <hammond> you picked a randomly increasing sequence and made it even more random by adding some structure ontop. IDK how any language or even AI could have helped u there.
03:45:16 <Axman6> This is like taking programming advice from a "Top 10 programming languages this week!!!" youtube video
03:45:16 <int-e> The idea that C++ code is fast is retroactive... if you take Python code and rewrite it in C++ there's a good chance the result will be faster.
03:45:33 <Axman6> hammond: removed structure really
03:45:35 <int-e> Plus, decades of work on compiler optimization.
03:45:37 <no-n> oh, he's trolling ##math now -_-
03:45:42 <no-n> with the same number sequence
03:45:52 <int-e> And co-evolving CPUs.
03:46:08 <mauke> int-e: why not ex [] = repeat 0 as the base case?
03:46:28 <int-e> mauke: Good question; I didn't think of that as the base case.
03:46:45 <Axman6> Yeah Haskell would be faster if they were build around graph reduction, but we decided to focus on other stuff
03:47:58 <int-e> no-n: no, they brought it up on ##math first, they just didn't get much discussion out of it
03:48:21 <no-n> oh, right (I should have looked at the timestamps :P)
03:49:38 <mauke> @protontorpedo
03:49:38 <lambdabot> so this java guy I know says that java is the best when things get really complex and u need your apps do do real work
03:49:52 <hammond> Axman6: well, give a software his sequence and let it find the next num. without knowing about primes, or anything like that. just addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division.
03:51:51 <int-e> maybe ask ChatGPT about the next number. This would actually be a good use of the system.
03:52:18 <int-e> (It's good at GIGO.)
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03:53:37 <mauke> maybe ask it to explain why the next number in the sequence is "potato"
03:54:25 <hammond> NNs, idk about chatGPT, but NNs are terrible at finding next nums, even after giving them very large(billions of) psuedo random numbers.
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03:56:02 <int-e> hammond: I meant for this particular sequence.
03:56:23 <hammond> yea
03:57:22 <int-e> OEIS is where I usually go with this kind of question.
03:58:07 <Axman6> yeah that was the first thing I thought too.
03:58:15 <Axman6> @oeis 1,3, 8, 11, 13, 23, 29, 31, 37
03:58:16 <lambdabot> Sequence not found.
03:58:51 <Axman6> THE SEQUENCE DOES NOT EXIST! (to paraphrase Mean Girls)
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03:59:37 <int-e> . o O ( Online Encyclopedia of Interesting Sequences )
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04:00:11 <int-e> (The actual expansion is subtly different.)
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04:02:22 <IRCHero> when I made that sequence up, I actually didn't think much about it
04:02:43 <IRCHero> I wrote it down very quickly
04:03:05 <IRCHero> but was subtely aware that it was primes and to avoid gaps and obvious patterns I've seen before
04:03:34 <IRCHero> subtly*
04:03:49 <IRCHero> I wonder how hard that is to do
04:04:09 <int-e> well you managed so I suppose it can't be difficult
04:04:48 <IRCHero> it has to be though
04:04:52 <IRCHero> since if you had a program that could do it
04:05:00 <IRCHero> this problem would be solved
04:05:07 <Axman6> but can haskell automagically just like do a vague thing I thought of?
04:05:22 <IRCHero> so therefore, I must be pretty good at generating sequences like that
04:05:24 <Axman6> haskell is like maths right?
04:05:38 <Axman6> and maths is just numbers
04:05:45 <Axman6> how could it be hard?
04:05:47 <monochrom> Are we done?
04:06:06 <IRCHero> either that problem is easy or im an idiot (but not both and theres no proof that problem is easy such that theres a program that can generate such sequences so by default, i must be pretty good)
04:06:51 <Axman6> I'm done, not sure I could cringe much harder
04:07:18 <int-e> . o O ( The result was a short burst of the most hideous cacophony in G minor. )
04:07:45 <Axman6> MIDI is the answer
04:09:08 <int-e> I mean, this seems perfectly analogous... whether you take a random piece of, uh, music, forced into a particular scale, or whether you take a random sequence of numbers but most of them are prime... the result will not produce joy.
04:12:56 <IRCHero> I wonder if I can come up with another sequence like that
04:13:37 <IRCHero> 2, 5, 6, 7, 13, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26
04:14:28 <int-e> let me check...
04:14:28 <IRCHero> is that truly random ?
04:14:40 <IRCHero> or is there correlation with last one I generated
04:14:44 <int-e> > joy [2, 5, 6, 7, 13, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26]
04:14:45 <Axman6> nah, (supposedly) a human made it
04:14:46 <lambdabot> 0
04:14:53 <Axman6> damn, no joy
04:15:35 <IRCHero> actually reading that one over again feels 'flat'
04:15:42 <IRCHero> not the same feel as last one
04:16:00 <Axman6> IRCHero: do you have a questions about haskell or not?
04:16:10 <IRCHero> nah
04:16:31 <Axman6> then why are you here making nonsense noise?
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04:35:27 <IRCHero> kubuntu
04:35:30 IRCHero parts (~IRCHero@S01069050ca4e3573.cg.shawcable.net) ()
04:35:39 <Axman6> o/
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11:41:59 <hexagoxel> any clever ideas on extracting/obtaining a full list of operator fixities for operators that are "common" (base + other top-used libraries)?
11:42:32 <hexagoxel> the haskell report has a small list
11:42:45 <ncf> grep ^infix
11:42:55 <yin> ^
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11:45:37 <yin> hexagoxel: they are really intuitive though. if you use hlint or hls you'll also get hints when you use redundant parethesis for example, which will get you trained on fixity really fast
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11:47:45 <hexagoxel> yin: my goal is exactly to improve such tools atm :D
11:48:01 <yin> which ide do you use?
11:50:11 <hexagoxel> yin: plain editor + integration for ghcid and brittany
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11:52:28 <yin> any reason why you're not using an ide?
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11:55:17 <hexagoxel> *shrug* they tend to break and/or leak memory. I should give lsp another go though.
11:56:36 <tomsmeding> for haskell there is not really any IDE apart from HLS over LSP :p
11:56:55 <hexagoxel> and typed-holes + quick feedback loops via ghcid are usually sufficient. I _do_ miss info-on-hover occasionally.
11:56:57 <tomsmeding> or rather, not a recent and maintained one other than
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12:53:31 <jtza8> When using the flag "-Wincomplete-patterns" with GHC, I get a non-exhaustive pattern match warning, but it doesn't make sense given that the following code works https://play.haskell.org/saved/UKerHCIP .
12:53:39 <jtza8> What am I missing?
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12:58:43 <[Leary]> jtza8: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/pragmas.html#complete-pragmas
13:00:01 <jtza8> [Leary]: Thanks.
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13:26:28 <cryptosopher666> hi, why i recieve this error https://paste.tomsmeding.com/BphUnj9C for this code https://paste.tomsmeding.com/6lNO4Q5E
13:27:16 <mauke> missing 'else'
13:27:57 <mauke> compiler sees 'if ... then ... where' where it expected 'if ... then ... else ...'
13:28:30 <mauke> 'fstString x or sndString y' is parsed as a single function call in the "then" branch
13:28:38 <mauke> ('or' is not a keyword)
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13:29:56 <cryptosopher666> mauke ok fixed and now its the error https://paste.tomsmeding.com/W9AoKU46
13:31:01 <mauke> that's because 'y' is not aligned horizontally with 'x'
13:31:33 <cryptosopher666> ahh thanks
13:31:39 <mauke> more specifically, the horizontal position of the first token after 'where' sets the indentation level of any following line that's part of the 'where' block
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13:33:35 <mauke> this happens twice in your code. 'fstString' in line 3 is the first token after 'where' in line 1, so every declaration at the top level of this module is expected to start at column 1 (i.e. no indentation)
13:34:05 <mauke> and 'x' in line 12 is the first token after 'where' in line 12, so all declarations that belong to this block need to be aligned with 'x'
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13:52:35 <cryptosopher666> wanna write sth for "h" based on "f" and "g" to pass compile https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2E52BdfU
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15:57:58 <hippoid> there's a 'pattern match non-exhaustive warning' for `insert` here https://paste.tomsmeding.com/XCwbV4hs. how to fix, while keeping the guards?
15:59:52 <geekosaur> change the last guard to use `otherwise`. ghc is not smart enough to know that you've covered all cases (it doesn't actually know what those operators do)
16:00:28 <geekosaur> alternately rewrite in terms ot `compare` instead of the operators, since it will understand completeness of `Ordering`
16:00:41 <geekosaur> *of
16:02:23 <hippoid> geekosaur: makes sense, thanks!
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22:01:49 <juri_> this irc channel is too quiet.
22:11:58 <davean> sssh
22:13:02 <mauke> chatting is a side effect
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22:15:40 <monochrom> /invite chatgpt >:)
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22:18:55 <pony> play some euterpea tunes into the chat
22:20:24 <Nosrep> @djinn [a -> a] -> a -> a
22:20:24 <lambdabot> Error: Undefined type []
22:20:29 <Nosrep> D:
22:21:36 <geekosaur> djinn can't handle recursive types, sadly
22:22:18 <geekosaur> and exference is sadly dead
22:25:17 <ski> (it can't handle rank-2 either, otherwise one could use a Church encoding)
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22:34:42 <geekosaur> and probably watch it hang. the subset @djinn knows reliably terminates. exference didn't
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23:19:13 <pony> trying to cabal install the Euterpea library got me https://bpa.st/GNTQW ... what can I do?
23:19:56 <geekosaur> that's a fancy way of saying it needs an older ghc
23:20:08 <pony> ok :)
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23:22:16 <geekosaur> looks like ghc 8.6.5 is your best bet
23:22:47 <pony> I see it recommending 8.6.3 hmm
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23:25:32 <pony> it just says to use 'cabal install', but how do I do that for a specific GHC version installed with ghcup?
23:26:22 <geekosaur> cabal install -w ghc-x.y.z
23:26:30 <pony> ty
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23:51:11 <pony> yay! I got it working.
23:51:34 pony played a piano key
23:52:22 <shapr> yay!
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