Logs on 2023-04-20 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:02:54 | <slaydr> | I run from the command line. I've tried ghc-9.2.7 and ghc-9.4.2. I'll try the verbosity. I take it no one else is seeing this problem? |
| 00:03:21 | <geekosaur> | I showed you in a pastebin what I got for compiling a small program in multiple ghc versions |
| 00:03:27 | <geekosaur> | yesterday |
| 00:03:53 | <geekosaur> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Sa1tj7i3 |
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| 00:05:05 | <slaydr> | I did see that, geekosaur. I disto-hopped from arcolinux to opensuse and was able to get an executable on a simple hello world earlier. Now, linking silently? fails |
| 00:05:22 | <mauke> | what is the exact command? |
| 00:05:57 | <monochrom> | And the verbatim input file, like I allured to. |
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| 00:07:02 | <slaydr> | I have Main.hs. I use $ ghc Main and with -v only see temp file activity. I get Main.hi and Main.o but no Main |
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| 00:09:15 | <slaydr> | Installing the devel_basis pattern using zypper did seem to solve the problem earlier today. I did link ok. Now it won't link when I try. I did delete Main.o and Main.hi before trying each time |
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| 00:10:43 | <mauke> | this insistence on paraphrasing is frustrating |
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| 00:14:03 | <monochrom> | "Have you tried turning it off and on again at the same time?" |
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| 00:26:21 | <slaydr> | I will try reinstalling the opensuse distro. Thanks for your help |
| 00:26:43 | <yushyin> | Oo |
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| 01:18:29 | <Axman6> | geekosaur: Where can I :thumbsup: the ghc proposal to add -Odons? :) |
| 01:18:47 | <geekosaur> | heh |
| 01:19:04 | <geekosaur> | actually I think he packaged it; it's just bitrotted |
| 01:19:44 | <Axman6> | -Odph? Can't remeber if he was involved in that wor a UNSW or not |
| 01:19:49 | <Axman6> | k* |
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| 03:47:05 | <hammond> | so I have a function that goes from String->IO String and inside that function I'm calling another function that goes from String->Maybe String and I want to use that result to return it to the IO String. |
| 03:47:10 | <hammond> | how can I do it? |
| 03:56:11 | <jackdk> | hammond: stand by |
| 04:02:00 | <jackdk> | hammond: Am I solving the problem you are describing? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/snDGzEnC/Strings.hs |
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| 04:06:00 | <hammond> | yes thanks jackdk |
| 04:06:13 | <jackdk> | hammond: you're welcome |
| 04:07:36 | <jackdk> | It is often easiest to start with explicit do-blocks and manual pattern-matches, and use only the shortcuts you are comfortable with to simplify the code to the limit of what you can read |
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| 10:45:07 | <anime-psycho> | hey, everyone. |
| 10:49:10 | <ski> | ehlo |
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| 12:52:22 | <jean-paul[m]> | Am I the only one who finds Hedgehog.Range.exponential confusingly named? |
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| 12:54:54 | <merijn> | I mean, probabilistically speaking probably not? :p |
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| 12:57:13 | <jean-paul[m]> | heh |
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| 12:57:32 | <jean-paul[m]> | maybe I just need to brush up on my stats |
| 12:58:37 | <jean-paul[m]> | I always want it to be named something like "logorithmic" ... but probably just my misunderstanding of these distributions (but exponential stuff goes up fast! why doesn't the upper bound on the exponential distribution go up fast :/) |
| 13:01:47 | <merijn> | jean-paul[m]: exponential functions go up fast, exponential distributions are long tailed, maybe that's the confusion? |
| 13:02:15 | <merijn> | See the example plots at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_distribution for example |
| 13:04:55 | <jean-paul[m]> | yea, that seems to be my issue |
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| 14:31:05 | <bionade24> | Hello, I can someone pls help me with this error? "No instance for (ByteArray String) arising from a use of ‘hash’" for input "Crypto.KDF.Argon2.hash hashConfig byteSecret salt hashLength" |
| 14:31:30 | <bionade24> | byteSecret is a ByteString so it should satisfy ByteArrayAccess, shouldn't it? |
| 14:31:55 | <merijn> | bionade24: GHC appears to disagree with you? |
| 14:32:29 | <merijn> | Since it's complaining about String not being an instance of ByteArray it seems to infer something is a String which you, apparently, do not think is a String |
| 14:32:47 | <opqdonut> | could it be the salt? |
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| 14:33:44 | <bionade24> | opqdonut: Yeah, it's the salt and guess the output, too. |
| 14:34:12 | <bionade24> | opqdonut: I tunneled myself to much |
| 14:37:00 | <janus> | bionade24: possibly you're confused by OverloadedStrings which some projects use, so something that looks like a string could be a bytestring iirc |
| 14:39:41 | <geekosaur> | OverloadedStrings only applies to literals; this causes some confusion sometimes |
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| 14:57:41 | <lortabac> | hello, I need to parse short strings like foo:key1-value1:key2-value2 and performance matters. Do you have any suggestions? |
| 15:00:45 | <ski> | (maybe `attoparsec' ?) |
| 15:01:01 | <geekosaur> | some people like flatparse |
| 15:01:47 | <lortabac> | attoparsec is already one of our transitive dependencies, so it's probably better |
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| 15:04:26 | <lortabac> | I think I'll start with attoparsec and see what the benchmarks say |
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| 15:21:09 | <kuribas> | These there exist a mixed type level monoid? |
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| 15:21:49 | <kuribas> | Where combining values also builds a monoid at type level? |
| 15:22:04 | <kuribas> | For example, a type indexed list (vector) |
| 15:22:25 | <kuribas> | here, mappend also does a monoid operation (Sum) over type level. |
| 15:23:38 | <kuribas> | obviously, it's not a monoid, since appending changes the length, but it is monoid-like... |
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| 15:25:38 | <ncf> | a graded monoid, basically |
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| 15:28:19 | <kuribas> | ncf: right, thanks |
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| 15:31:18 | <kuribas> | and the graded monoid can be turned into a regular monoid with an existential |
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| 15:32:01 | <kuribas> | That's quite nice, I can make a type safe (graded) version, and an easier one with a regular monoid. |
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| 15:33:34 | ncf | . o O ( an m-graded monoid is an Applicative functor m → Hask, where m is considered as a discrete monoidal category ) |
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| 15:34:47 | <ncf> | well, a monoidal functor. the equivalence might not be as smooth there |
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| 15:37:20 | ski | . o O ( "Ornamental Algebras, Algebraic Ornaments" by Conor McBride in 2010-12-22 at <https://web.archive.org/web/20140210011554/https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/conor.mcbride/pub/OAAO/Ornament.pdf> ) |
| 15:38:54 | <ski> | ncf : wouldn't codomain be a (full) subcategory ? |
| 15:39:37 | <ncf> | if you restrict it to its image, sure |
| 15:40:28 | <ski> | how would you define the monoidal structure on the codomain sensibly, otherwise ? |
| 15:41:28 | <ncf> | (,) and () |
| 15:42:57 | <ski> | kuribas was thinking of summing lengths, like `(<>) :: Vector m a -> Vector n a -> Vector (m + n) a' .. this only considers the objects in `Hask' of the form `Vector n a', monoidal structure being define in terms of monoid structure on `n' |
| 15:43:30 | <kuribas> | more like: (<>) :: Vector m a -> Vector n a -> Vector (m <> n) a |
| 15:43:40 | <ski> | `Vector m a -> Vector n a -> (Vector m a,Vector n a)' doesn't make sense here |
| 15:43:48 | <ski> | kuribas : general case, yea |
| 15:44:04 | <ncf> | no, (Vector m a, Vector n a) -> Vector (m + n) a |
| 15:44:45 | <ncf> | the monoidal structure of the codomain shows up in the domain of the multiplication, and vice-versa |
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| 15:46:41 | <ncf> | (because i'm talking about *lax* monoidal functors, i guess) |
| 15:46:53 | <ncf> | (which is what Applicatives are) |
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| 15:51:04 | <ski> | hm, i think part of my confusion was derived from thinking the functor directly giving the monoid combination .. but still not seeing how it's derived |
| 15:51:24 | <ncf> | hah, neat: the equivalence between Applicative and Monoidal works out if m is a closed monoidal category iff m is a group |
| 15:51:45 | <ncf> | (in that case a -> b in m reads as "b divided by a") |
| 15:51:50 | <ncf> | (or "b minus a") |
| 15:51:54 | <ski> | interesting |
| 15:52:15 | <ncf> | ski: how what is derived? |
| 15:52:33 | <ski> | how's kuribas's `(<>)' derived from the monoidal functor |
| 15:53:33 | ski | perhaps should take a nap soon |
| 15:54:29 | <ncf> | simply from the "combine" operation of the monoidal functor (the analogue of <*>) |
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| 15:57:28 | <ncf> | unit :: f () -- replacing () with the unit in m, this is unit :: Vector a 0 |
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| 15:58:13 | <ncf> | (>*<) :: f m -> f n -> f (m, n) -- replacing (,) with the operation in m, this is append :: Vector a (m + n) |
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| 16:01:19 | <kuribas> | :t (<*>) |
| 16:01:20 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b |
| 16:01:36 | <kuribas> | ncf: this is just an Applicative? |
| 16:03:20 | <ncf> | kuribas: what is? |
| 16:03:22 | <kuribas> | I can turn (Vector a n) into (Vector a (\m -> n + m)) |
| 16:03:37 | <kuribas> | ncf: my mixed typelevel monoid. |
| 16:03:44 | <ncf> | it is if your monoid is a group |
| 16:03:52 | <ncf> | in that case a -> b is b - a |
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| 16:04:16 | <kuribas> | hmm, not "b + a" ? |
| 16:04:47 | <kuribas> | ah no, because b is the output... |
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| 16:05:14 | <ncf> | so you also have (<*>) :: f (b - a) -> f a -> b and in particular (<*>) :: f c -> f a -> f (c + a) by taking b := c + a |
| 16:05:54 | <ncf> | kuribas: recall that a closed monoidal category has an evaluation map (a, [a -> b]) -> b (where in brackets is the internal hom) |
| 16:06:13 | <ncf> | but since m is a discrete monoidal category, -> is equality |
| 16:06:27 | <ncf> | so if you want a + [a -> b] = b, you need [a -> b] = b - a |
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| 16:08:02 | <kuribas> | right |
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| 16:11:25 | <ncf> | (sorry, that should read (<*>) :: f (b - a) -> f a -> f b) |
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| 16:15:17 | <kuribas> | right. So I can either use "\(a,b) -> (a -> b)" or "\(a, b) -> b - a" |
| 16:15:37 | <kuribas> | In the first case I get the actually haskell Applicative interface. |
| 16:15:39 | <ski> | hm, right, i think i see it now. with `F : M >---> Hask' being the monoidal functor, given `1 : M' and `m * n : M -| m,n : M', we get (coherence transformations) `eta : 1 >---> F 1' and `mu_{m,n} : F m * F n >---> F (m * n) -| m,n : M' from the monoidal functor |
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| 16:16:48 | <ncf> | now i'm wondering if there's anything interesting to be done with "possibly negative-length vectors", where the appending operation might annihilate vectors of opposite lengths |
| 16:17:22 | ski | . o O ( free group ) |
| 16:18:18 | <ski> | (i didn't see where those maps were coming from, at first, was thinking in terms of applying the functor to the monoid operations) |
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| 16:19:07 | ncf | . o O ( dual vector space ) |
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| 23:26:50 | <sm> | an interview with SPJ today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBFsxmJEk7M |
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| 23:28:11 | <c_wraith> | whoa, that's a long video |
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| 23:29:37 | <hpc> | don't watch the 5 hour john carmack interview then :D |
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| 23:30:04 | <c_wraith> | I didn't. (though that was mostly due to my dislike of the interviewer) |
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All times are in UTC on 2023-04-20.