Logs on 2023-04-26 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 08:26:33 | <dminuoso> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/postgresql-simple-0.6.5/docs/Database-PostgreSQL-Simple.html#t:Query |
| 08:26:35 | <dminuoso> | data Query |
| 08:26:49 | <dminuoso> | But the data type is defined as a newtype. |
| 08:27:02 | <dminuoso> | What's going on here? |
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| 08:32:21 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: does haddock not always display it that way if the constructor is not exported? |
| 08:32:36 | <tomsmeding> | indeed, if you can't use the constructor, newtypeness is not observable in the API, is it? |
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| 08:34:01 | <dminuoso> | That really depends on how you look at it. |
| 08:34:25 | <dminuoso> | Say you have a smart constructor mkQuery, then the difference is observable in strictness between `mkQuery undefined` and `mkQuery "foo"` |
| 08:34:50 | <dminuoso> | Which also depends on the strictness of mkQuery obviously |
| 08:34:52 | <tomsmeding> | hardly, that could also be explained by mkQuery having a bang pattern |
| 08:34:53 | <tomsmeding> | yeah |
| 08:35:00 | <dminuoso> | No, it cannot. |
| 08:35:02 | <tomsmeding> | I would say that's part of the API of mkQuery |
| 08:35:08 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: that only works in one direction |
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| 08:35:22 | <dminuoso> | If `mkQuery undefined `seq` ()` does not blow up, you cannot explain that with mkQuery. |
| 08:35:24 | <tomsmeding> | the user observes the strictness only through mkQuery |
| 08:35:29 | <tomsmeding> | ah, yes |
| 08:35:37 | <tomsmeding> | hm |
| 08:36:15 | <tomsmeding> | well -- assuming that mkQuery eventually puts its argument right there in the field of the data type |
| 08:36:29 | <dminuoso> | It doesnt really matter what mkQuery actually does. |
| 08:36:34 | <tomsmeding> | if you don't know the implementation of Query, who knows that it could be 'newtype Query = Query (Bool, String)' |
| 08:36:41 | <dminuoso> | Mmm |
| 08:36:44 | <tomsmeding> | then that's certainly lazy in the String |
| 08:36:57 | <dminuoso> | okay thats a fair point. |
| 08:37:10 | <tomsmeding> | I mean, that would be a weird newtype maybe, but certainly possible |
| 08:37:15 | <dminuoso> | But I think displaying it as `data` is grossly misleading |
| 08:37:29 | <dminuoso> | if you already have some rough ambient knowledge of its implementation |
| 08:37:37 | <dminuoso> | "opaque type" would be better. |
| 08:37:41 | <tomsmeding> | yes that's where the argument falls down |
| 08:37:42 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 08:38:02 | <tomsmeding> | aren't type families also written as 'type' or something |
| 08:38:24 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: so I think you're talking about associated type synonyms. |
| 08:38:35 | <dminuoso> | The terminology gets really confusing for me |
| 08:38:43 | <tomsmeding> | ah, that may be what I'm remembering, yes |
| 08:38:51 | <tomsmeding> | no then it makes sense |
| 08:39:00 | <dminuoso> | Because they are formally called associated type synonyms in the GHC manual, but enabled via TypeFamilies |
| 08:39:09 | <tomsmeding> | I briefly thought I remembered that a proper standalone type family, not sure whether open or closed, was sometimes displayed as 'type' instead of 'type family' |
| 08:39:15 | <dminuoso> | Right |
| 08:39:21 | <tomsmeding> | yeah I call those associated type families personally |
| 08:39:37 | <dminuoso> | I get confused by this every time, because I somehow expect to be able to write `instance Foo ... where type instance ...` |
| 08:39:43 | <tomsmeding> | which is maybe confusing half-way terminology :p |
| 08:39:47 | <dminuoso> | Indeed I do as well. |
| 08:39:49 | <tomsmeding> | I guess |
| 08:40:29 | <geekosaur> | maybe someone should propose it 🙂 |
| 08:41:00 | <dminuoso> | The kind of bike shedding you have to go through ghc proposals thesee days is not something I really want. |
| 08:41:30 | <tomsmeding> | I don't think we should change this part of the syntax now |
| 08:41:49 | <dminuoso> | Though I dont mean that in a strictly negative way. I think the current proposals process generally improves things. |
| 08:42:03 | <tomsmeding> | it's perhaps slightly confusing, but it's not like the alternative will be valid with a different meaning any time soon |
| 08:42:08 | <dminuoso> | It should take effort to make changes to the language. :) |
| 08:42:33 | <tomsmeding> | and also this is not worth making the current version _invalid_ synax in a few releases |
| 08:43:01 | <tomsmeding> | for Eq-with-no-(/=) (was that implemented, by the way?), the situation was different because implementations of (/=) were quite rare in the first place |
| 08:43:24 | <tomsmeding> | here you'd be changing the only syntax that the feature has |
| 08:43:29 | <eldritchcookie[m> | say https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/liberal_type_synonyms.html#extension-LiberalTypeSynonyms wasn't this impossible ? |
| 08:44:11 | <geekosaur> | I wasn't thinking about killing the current syntax, just allowing optional `instance` there |
| 08:44:24 | <tomsmeding> | eldritchcookie[m: well you still can't put a type synonym as the argument to a parametrised data type, can you? |
| 08:44:32 | <geekosaur> | not like it'll ever mean something else |
| 08:44:45 | <tomsmeding> | only if at place where you're putting in the type synonym, it already immediately reduces to fully-applied form |
| 08:44:48 | <eldritchcookie[m> | ah okay |
| 08:44:59 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: fair |
| 08:46:08 | <tomsmeding> | eldritchcookie[m: see the very last example on the page you linked |
| 08:46:14 | <tomsmeding> | ah no not that one |
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| 08:48:11 | <tomsmeding> | eldritchcookie[m: even this is still invalid https://play.haskell.org/saved/4la4AbYI |
| 08:48:55 | <tomsmeding> | it's just "partially-applied type synonym as argument to another type synonym, where the full type synonym expansion doesn't have any partially applied type synonyms any more" |
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| 08:56:09 | <eldritchcookie[m> | i was reading "thinking with types" and it shows a way to choose the monad stack with a runtime value by using singletons, would it be possible to choose a record's member's with a runtime value ? |
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| 08:58:32 | <dminuoso> | eldritchcookie[m: What is a "record's member" in this context exactly? |
| 08:58:40 | <dminuoso> | Or what do you mean by "choose"? |
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| 09:06:16 | <eldritchcookie[m> | ok i am unsure exactly so i will tell my train of thought, i want to make a VTT for multiple TTRPGs so i thought to have a group of maps for each character statistic however those change per game so i will almost always have they remain the same for a long time. so i wanted to leverage this fact for added safety. |
| 09:07:21 | <eldritchcookie[m> | basically for instance DND has one set of stats and GURPS another but GURPS unsurprisingly has the same Stats as GURPS |
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| 09:15:37 | <[exa]> | eldritchcookie[m: btw care to join #-offtopic? we can probably discuss the designs there much more verbosely |
| 09:16:10 | <eldritchcookie[m> | sure |
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| 09:45:53 | <oo_miguel> | Is it possible to list currently enabled language extensions on the GHCi prompt? I currently use `%s` on the prompt to list packages and I am aware of the `prompt-function` option. However I am not sure if there is a way to access the list of the extensions somehow. |
| 09:46:48 | <geekosaur> | :set language, iirc |
| 09:47:36 | <geekosaur> | sorry, it's :show language |
| 09:47:43 | <geekosaur> | I always get that wrong for some reason |
| 09:48:52 | <geekosaur> | also note :showi language |
| 09:49:13 | <geekosaur> | (which shows what applies to things you type in as opposed to what language :load will parse) |
| 09:50:25 | <oo_miguel> | Oh I am aware of the `show langauge` |
| 09:51:00 | <geekosaur> | you can't add the,m to the prompt afaik |
| 09:51:13 | <oo_miguel> | Sorry for misformulating my question. I want to list them autoamtically after every command, as I do with `:set prompt "....%s...."` with modues currently |
| 09:51:25 | <oo_miguel> | heh same problem with the `:show` |
| 09:51:47 | <oo_miguel> | anyway, ok. So I am not able to get them withing prompt-function. Thanks for claryfying |
| 09:55:18 | <geekosaur> | well, there's %call |
| 09:55:32 | <geekosaur> | but I don't know how well it will work with multiline output |
| 09:56:05 | <oo_miguel> | oh, missed that one. I'll try it out! |
| 09:56:44 | <geekosaur> | hm, nope, it's an external command 😞 |
| 09:56:57 | <geekosaur> | so prompt_function it is |
| 09:58:44 | <oo_miguel> | yeah ideally I would need to call the `: show language` within the prompt-function and then process its output. But already accepted that this is not possible currently |
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| 10:36:20 | <ariady[m]> | @help |
| 10:36:20 | <lambdabot> | help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands |
| 10:36:36 | <ariady[m]> | list |
| 10:36:45 | <ariady[m]> | help list |
| 10:37:06 | <ariady[m]> | lambdabot: @list |
| 10:37:06 | <lambdabot> | What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. |
| 10:37:17 | <ariady[m]> | @listmodules |
| 10:37:17 | <lambdabot> | activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search |
| 10:37:17 | <lambdabot> | seen slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where |
| 10:37:50 | <ariady[m]> | @undo [[x,y] | x <- [1,2], y <- [1,2]] |
| 10:37:50 | <lambdabot> | concatMap (\ x -> concatMap (\ y -> [[x, y]]) [1, 2]) [1, 2] |
| 10:39:57 | <ariady[m]> | @undo let n = [1..3] in [[x,y,z] | x <- n, y <- n, z <- n] |
| 10:39:58 | <lambdabot> | let { n = [1 .. 3]} in concatMap (\ x -> concatMap (\ y -> concatMap (\ z -> [[x, y, z]]) n) n) n |
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| 12:04:23 | <dminuoso> | Mmm, I would really like to get the peername for a unix domain socket in a warp application. It seems I would have to rip first class support into warp for this. |
| 12:04:48 | <dminuoso> | What alternatives might I have? It would be lovely if nginx could get the peername and inject it as a HTTP header, but I couldnt find any such option |
| 12:09:48 | <aeroplane> | what is a warp application? |
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| 12:10:00 | <aeroplane> | just curious |
| 12:12:03 | <probie> | A WAI app which uses Warp to serve it |
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| 12:15:39 | <aeroplane> | ok I got it, its a haskell http server library |
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| 12:47:08 | <maguss> | Hi guys. I am having trouble understanding how to make VScode with HLS find the Reflex Platform modules. I have made it work once, but when the Haskell extension installed its cabal, GHC and HLS it stopped working. How can I debug this? |
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| 12:51:35 | <Axman6> | have you built the project using cabal or stack yet? |
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| 12:55:26 | <jade[m]> | I'm a little confused about the role core and c-- play in the compilation process. I understand why these exist of course, but why do they exist as "source" files? |
| 12:55:26 | <jade[m]> | As I understand it, we have `Haskell Source -> Parse Haskell AST -> Write Core -> Parse Core AST -> Write C-- -> Parse C-- AST -> Write ASM`, but why does it not directly transform between the different "types" of AST like `Haskell Source -> Parse Haskell AST -> Transform into Core AST -> Transform into C-- AST -> Write ASM`? |
| 12:58:46 | <dminuoso> | jade[m]: If I had to guess just simplicity of the modular design. |
| 12:59:14 | <dminuoso> | Realistically its not even close to a hot spot |
| 12:59:46 | <dminuoso> | and it may also have some historical relevance |
| 13:00:42 | <dminuoso> | Perhaps this has also caching opportunities |
| 13:00:59 | <dminuoso> | Since if you somehow know the artifact is still in tact, you can resume the pipeline from any stage if the artifacts are kept |
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| 13:06:08 | <chreekat> | whoa, does it really write out the intermediate files somewhere? |
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| 13:07:07 | <dminuoso> | Yup |
| 13:07:14 | <dminuoso> | See GHC/Driver/Pipeline.hs |
| 13:07:57 | <carbolymer> | what's the analogue cabal command to: |
| 13:07:57 | <carbolymer> | stack test --ta '--hedgehog-replay "Size 100 Seed 15737640735508047734 16943050916655939693" -p "your_spec_name"' |
| 13:08:36 | <jade[m]> | wait, does it write and then re-parse the files in another component |
| 13:08:39 | <carbolymer> | carbolymer: --test-options |
| 13:08:42 | <carbolymer> | carbolymer: |
| 13:08:44 | <carbolymer> | thx |
| 13:08:44 | <jade[m]> | or does it write it out but internally keeps the AST |
| 13:08:51 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: X doubt |
| 13:09:30 | <tomsmeding> | I just ran 'strace -o log -f ghc tmp.hs' on some small file and the only non-RDONLY open()s I see are for /tmp/ghc.../ghc_2.s, tmp.hi and tmp.o.tmp |
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| 13:09:58 | <tomsmeding> | presumably the first is assembly, the second is the interface file and the third is (after inspection) an output file of gcc |
| 13:10:05 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Mmm! |
| 13:10:49 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: This is curious, no matter how I look at it, this seems to connect the pipeline phases together via file paths |
| 13:10:52 | <dminuoso> | At least from the source code |
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| 13:11:25 | <dminuoso> | See pipelineStart (note how it calls things like cmmPipeline) |
| 13:11:34 | <dminuoso> | cmmPipeline :: P m => PipeEnv -> HscEnv -> FilePath -> m FilePath |
| 13:11:34 | <tomsmeding> | ah, ghc_2.s goes into gcc -x assembler which spawns as which writes tmp.o.tmp, which later gets renamed to tmp.o |
| 13:11:47 | <tomsmeding> | so no cmm in sight |
| 13:15:17 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: doesn't that just call into fullPipeline |
| 13:15:26 | <tomsmeding> | the fromPhase thing is called on the _start_ phase |
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| 13:17:13 | tomsmeding | has never looked at this code before so yields to dminuoso again :p |
| 13:19:16 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Ohh! |
| 13:19:19 | <dminuoso> | I think you're right. |
| 13:19:32 | <dminuoso> | This looks just like the infrastructure to resume compilation from some earlier output |
| 13:22:13 | <maguss> | @Axman6 I have ran ./try-reflex and ran vscode. I am trying to use GHCJS to build the calculator project in https://github.com/reflex-frp/reflex-platform |
| 13:22:13 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 13:22:20 | <jade[m]> | hm ok |
| 13:22:42 | <jade[m]> | my bigger question was originally how to use utilize GHC to compile from core |
| 13:23:03 | <jade[m]> | essentially using it as a library, does GHC expose an api for that? |
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| 13:23:20 | <maguss> | to Axman6: I have ran ./try-reflex and ran vscode. I am trying to use GHCJS to build the calculator project in https://github.com/reflex-frp/reflex-platform |
| 13:24:56 | <geekosaur> | jade[m], external core used to be a thing but was removed due to complexity and lack of use. (actual core is an AST, not textual) |
| 13:25:20 | <jade[m]> | mhm yeah |
| 13:25:51 | <jade[m]> | so can I essentially use GHC's internal core ast and write a function to convert my AST to that and pass it along to GHC? |
| 13:25:55 | <jade[m]> | or is that not possible? |
| 13:26:15 | <dminuoso> | jade[m]: Yes it is perfectly possible |
| 13:27:00 | <jade[m]> | very cool |
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| 13:28:42 | <dminuoso> | Im not entirely sure whether this actually works from the GHC executable itself, but you can just use ghc as a library |
| 13:28:51 | <jade[m]> | yep |
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| 13:29:48 | <dminuoso> | jade[m]: ah not even that, ghc supports it already |
| 13:29:49 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: yeah indeed |
| 13:29:56 | <dminuoso> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/using.html#meaningful-file-suffixes |
| 13:30:16 | <dminuoso> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/using.html#batch-compiler-mode |
| 13:30:49 | <dminuoso> | jade[m]: So it seems like I was wrong. GHC in general does not generate intermediate files, but it *capable* of dumping and starting from any phase. |
| 13:30:58 | <jade[m]> | mhm |
| 13:31:00 | <jade[m]> | thanks a lot |
| 13:31:01 | <dminuoso> | But doesnt do so by default. |
| 13:31:06 | <dminuoso> | It's pretty cool :) |
| 13:31:12 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: what is the suffix for starting from core then? |
| 13:31:18 | <jade[m]> | this also makes more sense and was what I expected it to do |
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| 13:31:58 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: doesnt seem to be documented |
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| 13:32:48 | <dminuoso> | Ah mm |
| 13:33:36 | <dminuoso> | Maybe core doesnt actually exist? |
| 13:33:59 | <tomsmeding> | it was a lie all along |
| 13:34:20 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: compiler/GHC/Driver/Phases.hs startPhase |
| 13:34:49 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Right, but I dont see any core phase |
| 13:34:54 | <tomsmeding> | indeed |
| 13:35:03 | <dminuoso> | It seems like core is really internal to the hs phase. |
| 13:35:16 | <tomsmeding> | yeah there's even no corresponding constructor in Phase |
| 13:36:18 | <dminuoso> | Or I dont know |
| 13:36:23 | <dminuoso> | whats the output of the haskell phase? |
| 13:36:23 | <tomsmeding> | chreekat: don't worry, it doesn't |
| 13:36:38 | <dminuoso> | If the haskell phase puts out core, all should be good again |
| 13:36:52 | <dminuoso> | It just means you cant generate core and have the simplifier play with it |
| 13:36:55 | tomsmeding | has a hard time understanding this code |
| 13:37:56 | <tomsmeding> | or is this hscPipeline? |
| 13:38:00 | <tomsmeding> | outputting a ModIface |
| 13:38:15 | <tomsmeding> | hm no that's too much |
| 13:38:26 | <dminuoso> | Well the input to As should be cmm |
| 13:38:58 | <dminuoso> | There's something strange here |
| 13:39:04 | <dminuoso> | There's certainly a CmmCpp phase |
| 13:39:10 | <dminuoso> | But nothing ever connects to it |
| 13:39:28 | <dminuoso> | Maybe this is just a start phase to inject arbitrary cmm into the compiler? |
| 13:40:35 | <carbolymer> | how do I convert `Pico` to microseconds Int? |
| 13:41:00 | <carbolymer> | or NominalDiffTime -> Int |
| 13:41:06 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: runPhase in GHC.Driver.Pipeline.Execute |
| 13:43:33 | dminuoso | wonders why there is no `instance Integral (Fixed a)` |
| 13:43:51 | tomsmeding | was looking for the same |
| 13:44:05 | <dminuoso> | carbolymer: well you can just unwrap the Integral. |
| 13:44:12 | <tomsmeding> | *Integer |
| 13:44:16 | <dminuoso> | Indeed. |
| 13:44:49 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Ah I guess something something quotRem prevents that instance? |
| 13:44:56 | <tomsmeding> | there is toRational in Real |
| 13:45:00 | <tomsmeding> | carbolymer: ^ |
| 13:45:34 | <tomsmeding> | dminuoso: because you might need infinite precision? |
| 13:46:00 | <tomsmeding> | doesn't fly, it implements Fractional |
| 13:46:25 | <mauke> | > 42 :: NominalDiffTime |
| 13:46:25 | <carbolymer> | tomsmeding: you mean Rational? |
| 13:46:27 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:46:27 | <lambdabot> | Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘NominalDiffTime’ |
| 13:46:44 | <dminuoso> | carbolymer: Just unwrap the Fixed. |
| 13:46:48 | <tomsmeding> | carbolymer: no, the Real class has a toRational method with type Real a => a -> Rational |
| 13:47:03 | <carbolymer> | >.> |
| 13:47:04 | <dminuoso> | carbolymer: then you can multiply by 1e6, check whether it exceeds Int, and then use. |
| 13:47:08 | <mauke> | wouldn't you just multiply by 1e6 and floor? |
| 13:47:15 | <carbolymer> | yeah |
| 13:47:16 | <carbolymer> | >floor $ toRational (0.123456789 :: NominalDiffTime) * 1000000 :: Int |
| 13:47:20 | <carbolymer> | seems to be working |
| 13:47:28 | <mauke> | why toRational? |
| 13:47:41 | <tomsmeding> | mauke: what's the alternative, besides unwrapping the MkFixed |
| 13:47:43 | <carbolymer> | mauke: right, it's redundant |
| 13:47:54 | <tomsmeding> | oh there, I see |
| 13:47:57 | <dminuoso> | The toRational seems odd |
| 13:48:05 | <dminuoso> | But oh well. |
| 13:48:22 | <tomsmeding> | haskell numeric hierarchy weirdness strikes again |
| 13:48:29 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: ohh, I understand why there's no toIntegral. |
| 13:48:32 | <dminuoso> | *Integral |
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| 13:48:36 | <tomsmeding> | Integer |
| 13:49:04 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: it cant possibly ever be a left inversee for fromInteger. |
| 13:49:14 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 13:49:30 | <dminuoso> | So you would have `fromInteger (toInteger i) /= i` |
| 13:49:38 | <dminuoso> | However, to be fair, Integral doesnt formally have any laws... |
| 13:49:52 | <tomsmeding> | yeah but it seems sensible to assume this as a law that should at least mostly hold |
| 13:50:07 | <tomsmeding> | Nan-ish stuff aside, when applicable, perhaps |
| 13:50:18 | <dminuoso> | It would also seem sensible to have some obvious way of doing this. |
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| 13:50:44 | <dminuoso> | Asking for a `floor` of some `Fixed E9` seems reasonable |
| 13:50:55 | <dminuoso> | Do we have RealFrac? |
| 13:50:59 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 13:51:05 | <tomsmeding> | but surely that will round |
| 13:51:10 | <tomsmeding> | i.e. throw away your microsecond precision |
| 13:51:29 | <dminuoso> | Then I guess going through toRational *is* the only sensible thing to dot |
| 13:52:25 | <mauke> | > 1 :: Pico |
| 13:52:27 | <lambdabot> | 1.000000000000 |
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| 13:53:17 | <geekosaur> | > toEnum 1 :: Pico |
| 13:53:19 | <lambdabot> | 0.000000000001 |
| 13:53:20 | <mauke> | > floor ((1 :: Pico) * 1e6) |
| 13:53:22 | <lambdabot> | 1000000 |
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| 13:53:35 | <dminuoso> | Though I would just unwrap the Fixed. |
| 13:53:48 | <tomsmeding> | > fromEnum (1 :: Pico) |
| 13:53:50 | <lambdabot> | 1000000000000 |
| 13:53:52 | <dminuoso> | But I dont know, you might want rational precision |
| 13:53:59 | <tomsmeding> | how about abusing Enum lol |
| 13:53:59 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: gosh. |
| 13:54:02 | <dminuoso> | haha |
| 13:54:04 | <dminuoso> | was about to say yes |
| 13:54:14 | <dminuoso> | % :t fromEnum |
| 13:54:14 | <yahb2> | fromEnum :: Enum a => a -> Int |
| 13:54:14 | <tomsmeding> | :t fromEnum |
| 13:54:15 | <lambdabot> | Enum a => a -> Int |
| 13:54:22 | <tomsmeding> | yeah issue being that the codomain is Int there |
| 13:54:50 | <dminuoso> | fromEnum shouldnt exist |
| 13:55:18 | tomsmeding | has a meeting and will be afk |
| 13:55:29 | <dminuoso> | I feel like Enum should only have functions that dont mention Int. |
| 13:55:45 | <dminuoso> | succ, pred, enumFrom, enumFromThen, enumFromTo, enumFromThenTo |
| 13:56:19 | <dminuoso> | Those things capture what Enum is about. fromEnum/toEnum are just the hackiest bolted in of C-style enumerations brought into the same typeclass because they share the letters "enum" in their name./ |
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| 14:18:10 | <Axman6> | @hoogle e -> Maybe a -> Either e a |
| 14:18:10 | <lambdabot> | Data.Either.Combinators maybeToRight :: b -> Maybe a -> Either b a |
| 14:18:10 | <lambdabot> | Rebase.Prelude maybeToRight :: () => b -> Maybe a -> Either b a |
| 14:18:11 | <lambdabot> | Network.Haskoin.Util maybeToEither :: b -> Maybe a -> Either b a |
| 14:24:05 | <dminuoso> | Axman6: Also often called `note` |
| 14:24:26 | <ncf> | dminuoso: i wouldn't call it a hack... it's simply requiring that the type has a specified isomorphism to ℤ (or ℤ/nℤ) instead of merely being a ℤ- (or ℤ/nℤ-)torsor |
| 14:24:28 | <dminuoso> | as a suggestive wordplay, together with hush :: Either a b -> Maybe b |
| 14:24:52 | <ncf> | which you could argue is unnecessary if all we care about is the action, but in haskell it just makes things more convenient |
| 14:25:19 | <dminuoso> | ncf: it is a hack because requirement is not satisfied by pretty much any instance. |
| 14:25:22 | <ncf> | it's much more problematic that succ and pred are partial imo |
| 14:25:38 | <dminuoso> | And I have not read that requirement anywhere either. |
| 14:25:44 | <dminuoso> | It's at best wishful thinking |
| 14:26:05 | <ncf> | well, i'd expect any lawful instance to at least be a retract of Int |
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| 14:26:29 | <ncf> | as in fromEnum . toEnum = id |
| 14:26:52 | <dminuoso> | Sure, and what does toEnum even mean then? |
| 14:27:08 | <ncf> | er sorry, the other way around |
| 14:27:09 | <dminuoso> | The naming of it and the behavior deriving generated instances clearly demonstrate the intent. |
| 14:27:15 | <dminuoso> | Which is to simulate C-style enumerations. |
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| 14:30:53 | <maguss> | Is there a channel specific to GHCJS questions? |
| 14:31:00 | <dminuoso> | maguss: not that I know of (yet) |
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| 14:50:18 | <maguss> | dminuoso: Thanks! |
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| 15:15:38 | <justsomeguy> | Does this sound correct? (>>=) is a HOF that takes a wrapped vaule, and (a function that takes an unwrapped vaule as input and returns a wrapped value as output), and then returns a wrapped vaule. |
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| 15:16:25 | <dminuoso> | justsomeguy: Not reallz. |
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| 15:17:06 | <dminuoso> | But mostly because I think calling it "wrapped" is wrong or misleading. |
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| 15:18:12 | <justsomeguy> | If I said "A vaule enclosed in a type constructor of one argument" rather than "wrapped" would it make sense? |
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| 15:18:36 | <justsomeguy> | Erm, data constructor, rather. |
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| 15:19:06 | <justsomeguy> | I guess I should just dispense with the metaphors entirely until I understand the thing. |
| 15:19:09 | <c_wraith> | justsomeguy: but no such value needs to exist |
| 15:19:16 | <dminuoso> | justsomeguy: Yes! That's the first good step. |
| 15:19:23 | <dminuoso> | The metaphors are indeed not helpful. |
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| 15:19:38 | <geekosaur> | there is no guaranteed value there. for IO it's best thought of as a callback to be applied when a value becomes available |
| 15:20:36 | <c_wraith> | like... where's the value in ((+1) >>= (*)) ? |
| 15:22:48 | <dminuoso> | justsomeguy: Forcibly trying to see the pattern before studying individual instances is a helpless excercise. It's like trying to understand what abstract algebra is about before you practice adding or multipying numbers. |
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| 15:23:50 | <dminuoso> | It's much more sensible to just start using concrete instances like IO or Maybe (just like its useful to start adding natural numbers), and then you maybe explore other instances. For each individual instance, its behavior can be described without metaphors, but concretely. |
| 15:24:14 | <dminuoso> | The pattern will emerge on its own eventually the more instances you start using. |
| 15:24:50 | <dminuoso> | And more importantly, most individual instances can be fully understood in just a minute or two. |
| 15:24:55 | <dminuoso> | It's very effecftive. |
| 15:26:17 | <justsomeguy> | I guess my next step is to find a bunch of instances on Hoogle and try them all out. |
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| 15:37:04 | <tomsmeding> | can one put a standalone kind signature on an associated type family? |
| 15:37:24 | <tomsmeding> | to make matters more complicated, I also want the thing to have a functional dependency |
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| 15:39:26 | <dminuoso> | Will this discussion end with you using CPP inside of TemplateHaskell, in a standalone kind signature on an associated tyfam? |
| 15:39:35 | <tomsmeding> | lol |
| 15:39:36 | <tomsmeding> | no |
| 15:40:11 | <dminuoso> | But you have to admit, this is just missing typed TH splices, maybe involving ScopedTypeVariables captured variables |
| 15:40:21 | <dminuoso> | (These two are extremely buggy together by the way) |
| 15:40:27 | dminuoso | has crashed many GHCs that way |
| 15:40:38 | <dminuoso> | in combination that is. |
| 15:40:39 | <tomsmeding> | what, typed TH splices? |
| 15:41:02 | <tomsmeding> | I know that I'm notorious for asking weird questions but there is no TH here, trust me |
| 15:41:28 | <tomsmeding> | I want to have an associated type family with a functional dependency but with result kind unequal to Type |
| 15:41:44 | <tomsmeding> | or is that just not a thing |
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| 15:42:23 | <tomsmeding> | the ghc user guide is quite silent about the combination, on the topic of fundeps, tyfams as well as standalone kindsigs |
| 15:43:41 | <eldritchcookie[m> | this is probably something really stupid that i am forgetting but why does this... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/330bbb6c98d4e3a984ec7bd726e1efd9c49b9a89>) |
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| 15:53:29 | <dminuoso> | (State [e -> Eff (State [e -> Eff es ()] : es) ()] :> es) |
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| 15:53:40 | <dminuoso> | That looks awfully wrong. |
| 15:54:02 | <eldritchcookie[m> | yeah it does |
| 15:54:03 | <dminuoso> | eldritchcookie[m: whats the type of `act`? |
| 15:54:31 | <dminuoso> | But gosh |
| 15:54:38 | <dminuoso> | How people willingly use these effect systems is beyond me |
| 15:55:00 | <eldritchcookie[m> | it should be e -> Eff localEs () |
| 15:55:23 | <[Leary]> | tomsmeding: Why standalone? You can write e.g. `class ... where { type Foo (a :: Type) (b :: k) = (r :: k) | r -> a b; ... }`. |
| 15:55:31 | <dminuoso> | eldritchcookie[m: that doesnt look like it nicely unifies with localUnlift |
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| 15:56:32 | <dminuoso> | eldritchcookie[m: ahh yes, the modify is strange. |
| 15:57:02 | <dminuoso> | Or maybe not. Ill just stop my head is spinning |
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| 16:02:35 | <kuribas> | dminuoso: to me they look like a fancy way to get dependency injection. |
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| 16:11:22 | <eldritchcookie[m> | the main benefit is the possibility to interpret a effect in multiple ways |
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| 16:13:25 | <monochrom> | Every decoupling is a fancy way to get dependency injection. Every dependency injection is a fancy way to get decoupling. >:) |
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| 16:23:01 | <eldritchcookie[m> | cool |
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| 16:27:39 | <zincy> | monochrom: How are you defining "decoupling"? |
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| 16:32:34 | <eldritchcookie[m> | um if i use a type application i get a sensible error |
| 16:33:07 | <eldritchcookie[m> | Couldn't match type ‘es’ with ‘State [e -> Eff es ()] : es’... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/0f801e38738511c04dacd2df5d77e8cd11b965e2>) |
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| 16:41:39 | <eldritchcookie[m> | so basically i need an infinite type |
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| 16:43:55 | <Hecate> | eldritchcookie[m: could you create a reproducer at play.haskell.org? :) |
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| 16:46:03 | <eldritchcookie[m> | sure just need to learn how, the problem isn't with Effectful but rather that i wanted something impossible |
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| 16:53:31 | <eldritchcookie[m> | https://play.haskell.org/saved/pOIziSnO |
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| 16:55:06 | <eldritchcookie[m> | basically for my idea to work i would need a a constraint of State [Eff (State (recurse again): es)] :> es |
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| 17:01:10 | <Hecate> | eldritchcookie[m: indeed that's pretty deep. I would encourage you to ask in https://github.com/haskell-effectful/effectful/discussions |
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| 17:31:10 | <tomsmeding> | [Leary]: the whole point is to make that b not a parameter of the type class |
| 17:31:47 | <tomsmeding> | because otherwise we run into this https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/14860 |
| 17:36:54 | <tomsmeding> | but it turns out that workaround 2 in the last post to that issue actually solves our problem, so my question has been made redundant :) |
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| 17:56:03 | <jade[m]> | When I build the core AST with GHC.Core.CoreExpr, how do I pass it along to ghc to use it to compile further down to cmm and then the backend? |
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| 18:14:05 | <monochrom> | zincy: Please consult any software engineering textbook for "tightly coupled" vs "loosely coupled". |
| 18:14:30 | <monochrom> | (With the advice that usually we prefer the loosely one.) |
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| 18:26:15 | <zincy> | There are a ton of working definitions |
| 18:26:50 | <monochrom> | That is OK. |
| 18:29:27 | <zincy> | monochrom: Did you ever get the chance to try lean out yet? |
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| 19:50:00 | <tomsmeding> | jade[m]: I think that's a question for #ghc |
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| 20:32:09 | <Guest4243> | @repoint ( . )$( . ) |
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| 23:48:22 | <Clinton[m]> | Is there a MonadState style typeclass that abstracts over a Key/Value store? Yes, I know I could use StateT and a Map, but I'd like to eventually replace an in memory implementation with some other implementation, like a database based one. I don't want to have to load the whole table each time I want to get one row to conform to the interface. |
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All times are in UTC on 2023-04-26.