Logs on 2023-05-07 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 05:15:23 | ChanServ | sets mode +o litharge |
| 05:15:24 | litharge | sets mode -bo *!~*@190.123.41.* litharge |
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| 07:46:55 | <Inst_> | curious, do you guys know if there's a way for Java code to call Haskell code? |
| 07:48:16 | <geekosaur> | I don't know if anyone has packaged it, but Java has JNI and should be able to call `hs_init` and friends |
| 07:48:51 | <geekosaur> | passing and returning values is harder, in particular you would only be able to use the lowercase types corresponding to C types |
| 07:49:15 | <geekosaur> | (that is, unboxed `int` as opposed to boxed `Int`) |
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| 08:24:34 | ← | L29Ah parts (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
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| 08:27:45 | <jtza8> | I get the basics of Haskell, and now I'm wondering what the sanest way would be to work with record field functions and databases. So far it seems to make the most sense to define a type in a separate module, and importing it in a qualified fashion so that it's field names don't clutter the function namespace. In theory, you could even shadow functions such as "id" without affecting anything in a practical sense. |
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| 08:28:54 | <jtza8> | I know I'm asking for trouble, is this the right way to go about this kind of thing? |
| 08:28:55 | <geekosaur> | there are people who do that. there are also later arrangements such as the `Has` typeclass that allow you to shadow fields arbitrarily |
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| 08:29:34 | <geekosaur> | personally, I want to see Haskell adopt row types, but I keep seeing bandaids applied instead 😞 |
| 08:31:29 | <geekosaur> | (you also need `{-# LANGUAGE NoFieldSelectors #-}`) |
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| 08:32:47 | <jtza8> | The options available do feel kinda awkward. Thanks geekosaur, I think I get how that works. |
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| 09:16:35 | <jackdk> | Inst_: tweag had some java stuff on their blog, iirc |
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| 09:46:00 | <Inst_> | basically, i'm trying to think of a hacky way to transpile Haskell so it works on the JVM, let the transpiler handle laziness concerns |
| 09:46:41 | <Inst_> | the idea is that if you're limited to a single framework, the concerns of the framework would be relatively easy to hand translate to JVM |
| 09:47:02 | <Inst_> | but the framework would support Haskell code, and then the question becomes, how do you get the Haskell code to run on Android? |
| 09:49:26 | <lav> | meowhi |
| 09:49:40 | <Inst_> | hi |
| 09:49:46 | Inst_ | pets lav |
| 09:49:51 | lav | purrs |
| 09:49:57 | <sm> | use one of the haskell-on-jvms, like https://eta-lang.org ? |
| 09:50:02 | <lav> | :3c |
| 09:54:45 | <lav> | uhm can anyone say why my shared object files end in `-ghc9.0.2.so` when ghc is looking for a file that just ends in `.so`? ex. /home/lav/.local/share/cabal/store/ghc-9.0.2/filepath-1.4.100.0-87704eaa3f9d9206b847e048fe6512994e03ec2fc35a830003d0f9880de3f821/lib/libHSfilepath-1.4.100.0-87704eaa3f9d9206b847e048fe6512994e03ec2fc35a830003d0f9880de3f821-ghc9.0.2.so |
| 09:55:27 | <lav> | ghc is looking for /home/lav/.local/share/cabal/store/ghc-9.0.2/filepath-1.4.100.0-87704eaa3f9d9206b847e048fe6512994e03ec2fc35a830003d0f9880de3f821/lib/libHSfilepath-1.4.100.0-87704eaa3f9d9206b847e048fe6512994e03ec2fc35a830003d0f9880de3f821.so and so can't load the lib |
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| 09:57:57 | <geekosaur> | the first behavior is correct; shared objects are dependent on the ghc version. but packages that ship with ghc itself (this includes filepath) normally omit it because it's implied by being a boot package. that said, that version of filepath doesn't ship with ghc 9.0.2 so ghc should be using the full one |
| 09:59:30 | <geekosaur> | this may be a stack bug since it's clearly using the one in stack's package store, not the bootlib |
| 10:00:21 | <geekosaur> | unless the bootlib is being used by another dependency, in which case you have a diamond dependency and things just won't work with two versions of the same library linked in |
| 10:03:04 | <lav> | sounds just lovely innit |
| 10:03:37 | <geekosaur> | yeh |
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| 10:06:00 | <lav> | what's more, `cabal list filepath` shows `filepath` as not installed at all |
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| 10:08:13 | <geekosaur> | that doesn't surprise me, cabal can't see stack's store and vice versa |
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| 10:10:04 | <sm> | why do you say it's using stack's package store, geekosaur ? |
| 10:10:24 | <lav> | thing is, i don't think i have stack installed |
| 10:10:25 | <geekosaur> | oh, sorry, somehow I misread your paths earlier |
| 10:10:41 | <sm> | I think we can let stack off the hook :) |
| 10:10:55 | <geekosaur> | I'm not fully used to new cabal using XDG paths yet 🙂 |
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| 10:11:31 | <geekosaur> | and in any case the information that should be used should be in the package database and not controlled directly by the build tool |
| 10:12:08 | <sm> | lav: are you using latest cabal-install ? If not, might be worth a try |
| 10:12:40 | <sm> | you could also try blowing away (perhaps temporarily) your cabal package store |
| 10:12:47 | <lav> | 3.4.1.0, the latest version available in gentoo |
| 10:13:00 | <sm> | ha. |
| 10:13:15 | <sm> | install something from the modern age with ghcup |
| 10:13:38 | <lav> | ugh |
| 10:14:13 | <sm> | or not. It's just one thing you could try |
| 10:14:47 | <geekosaur> | wait, how do you have `/home/lav/.local/share/cabal/store` with cabal 3.4? those paths aren't supported until 3.10 |
| 10:14:51 | <lav> | yeah, i'd just really like to use my package manager instead of.... curl | sh |
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| 10:14:59 | <sm> | but really, haskell tool ecosystem is hard enough without dealing with old resolved bugs |
| 10:16:14 | <lav> | okay i'll use ghcup... |
| 10:16:21 | <geekosaur> | …oh wait, that's wrong for 3.10 too, it would be `.local/state/cabal/store |
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| 10:19:29 | <sm> | I'd say ghcup isn't as bad as a random website's curl | sh. Its maintainer is well known and good at his job |
| 10:19:42 | <sm> | (don't use ghcup's own curl | sh :) |
| 10:20:09 | <lav> | geekosaur: i set that manually with env vars |
| 10:21:33 | <lav> | re cabal versions, the thing i read must've assumed i have a newer version of cabal... |
| 10:23:08 | <geekosaur> | certainly the version of filepath referenced postdates 3.4 |
| 10:26:20 | <sm> | (ghcup tui currently recommends cabal 3.6 for some reason that probably doesn't affect you, I would try the latest) |
| 10:27:14 | <sm> | setting env vars for cabal sounds unusual and a bit of a problem unless you know what you're doing |
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| 10:27:29 | <bwe> | can so. kindly point me to a working integration recipe for doctest? I eventually want a watcher to let doctest run on file changes. Running doctest 0.16.2 does not find some modules right now. And `cabal repl --with-ghc=doctest -v3` (recommended by doctest's documentation) complains: doctest: unrecognized option `--numeric-version' |
| 10:27:42 | <bwe> | please :) |
| 10:28:03 | <sm> | bwe: watchexec -- doctest ... ? |
| 10:28:29 | <sm> | another way: stack test --fast --file-watch mydoctestsuite |
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| 10:30:26 | <sm> | here's a doctest-running cabal test suite: https://github.com/simonmichael/hledger/blob/master/hledger-lib/package.yaml#L169 |
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| 10:33:16 | <lav> | annnd apparently the 6 GB i have left on my /home isn't enough for ghcup. lovely. |
| 10:33:41 | <sm> | ah now. 6G should be enough |
| 10:33:48 | <sm> | or the world has gone mad |
| 10:34:23 | <lav> | Error: [GHCup-00080] Failed to merge file tree from /home/lav/.ghcup/tmp/ghcup-1afb0acc0e4c8be8/home/lav/.ghcup/ghc/9.2.7 to /home/lav/.ghcup/ghc/9.2.7 |
| 10:34:26 | <lav> | exception was: <file descriptor: 13>: hPutBuf: resource exhausted (No space left on device) |
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| 10:34:37 | <jade[m]1> | Ghcup uses a shitton of storage space |
| 10:34:44 | <sm> | how much is .ghcup using ? |
| 10:34:51 | <jade[m]1> | it was like 5GB on my machine when I last checked |
| 10:35:13 | <jade[m]1> | I can check in a few mins |
| 10:35:46 | <bwe> | sm: thanks, I will create a package.yaml first (hpack). |
| 10:36:00 | <lav> | for me only 270M right now, but it seems to have emptied .ghcup/tmp |
| 10:36:07 | <sm> | in mine there's .. 2G per installed ghc version.. 1.3G per installed hls version |
| 10:36:38 | <jade[m]1> | yeah thats a lot + temporary files during installation which it doesn't use /tmp for |
| 10:37:05 | <sm> | maerwald^ |
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| 10:37:31 | <lav> | welp. i'll have to do some partition wrangling later to make some space i guess |
| 10:37:52 | <sm> | how much is your ~/.cabal using |
| 10:38:11 | <lav> | 1.1G |
| 10:38:16 | <sm> | and ~/.ghc |
| 10:38:17 | <jade[m]1> | can you symlink .ghcup/tmp to a directory on another drive? |
| 10:38:47 | <lav> | i don't have another drive, unless i make a tmpfs |
| 10:38:48 | <sm> | well anyway.. ncdu ~ can help I find |
| 10:39:01 | <jade[m]1> | ah |
| 10:39:12 | <jade[m]1> | or on another partition ofc |
| 10:39:22 | <lav> | yeah |
| 10:39:28 | <jade[m]1> | if you have an empty partition you can even mount it directly onto that |
| 10:40:44 | sm | still doesn't see how ghcup's first install could use 6G |
| 10:40:54 | <jade[m]1> | I remember having a similar problem |
| 10:40:59 | <jade[m]1> | not sure why |
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| 10:45:10 | jade[m]1 | uploaded an image: (224KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/nQueGPtmMpQBjXbrDBmUrQDQ/image.png > |
| 10:45:11 | <jade[m]1> | 6.5GB |
| 10:45:45 | <geekosaur> | doesn't it autoinstall recommended versions of everything except HLS for which it installs all known versions? |
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| 10:45:54 | <geekosaur> | and ghc and HLS are huge |
| 10:46:10 | <sm> | jade: but that's with 6 versions of hls |
| 10:46:17 | <jade[m]1> | fair, yeah |
| 10:47:45 | <sm> | or a few versions anyhow, not sure how you count those |
| 10:48:39 | <sm> | anyway I bet lav will find some discardable hogs with ncdu |
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| 10:50:03 | <lav> | mostly cd rips and contrapoints videos, neither of which i wanna delete >_> i made an 8G tmpfs on .ghcup/tmp which seems to have worked |
| 10:51:16 | <sm> | there's cabal binaries at https://www.haskell.org/cabal/download.html |
| 10:51:33 | <sm> | aha |
| 10:51:57 | <lav> | i think it worked uwu |
| 10:52:23 | <lav> | i'll resize my parts later, since i have some extra space elsewhere |
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| 10:58:20 | <sm> | night all |
| 10:58:31 | <lav> | nini |
| 10:58:41 | <jade[m]1> | night!! |
| 10:58:42 | <lav> | and thanks for the help :3 |
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| 11:02:50 | <bwe> | sm: doctest works now with watchexec, thanks. |
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| 11:50:11 | <lav> | okay, another question: now that i have ghc-9.6.1 via ghcup, my shared object paths look like this: .ghcup/ghc/9.6.1/lib/ghc-9.6.1/lib/x86_64-linux-ghc-9.6.1/libHSfilepath-1.4.100.1-ghc9.6.1.so , which ghc seemingly doesn't know to look for |
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| 12:26:02 | <RedNifre> | Howdy! I have something that is a bit like a functor, but not really, and was wondering, what the kinda map function should be called. It's kinda a pair of a String and a Color and I figured it would be good to have something like map, where you pass a function that "changes" the string. It's not a functor, since you can only map from String to String here. What are the right words for this? |
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| 12:27:21 | <hpc> | what does that pair represent? part of a color palate? |
| 12:27:40 | <RedNifre> | It's a text with a color, like for a terminal, or a Minecraft chat. |
| 12:27:50 | <RedNifre> | Oh, I just realized that lenses might be the right choice here. |
| 12:29:45 | <vulfe> | If you're just applying maps f : String -> String to it, then I don't think there's a name for that (Every type is an algebra for its own endomorphisms) |
| 12:29:57 | <ncf> | if you can also get the String out then it's a lens |
| 12:31:10 | <ncf> | hpc: you mean palette :) |
| 12:31:36 | <RedNifre> | Okay, I'll look into lenses then, thanks! |
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| 12:31:58 | <vulfe> | (Lenses are so cool) |
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| 12:32:25 | <hpc> | ncf: speling is hard :P |
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| 12:36:00 | <ncf> | vulfe: do you mean "every type is an algebra for the identity functor", or do i not understand you? |
| 12:37:55 | <vulfe> | I'm saying that every type carries an action by its own endomorphisms, so (String, Color) carries an action of End(String) just via the inclusion (id, 1) : End(String) -> End((String,Color)) |
| 12:38:38 | <vulfe> | it's true that that's technically a form of functoriality (with respect to the one-object subcategory on the type itself) |
| 12:39:23 | <ncf> | ah, got you |
| 12:45:01 | <ski> | RedNifre : yea, traversals. also "monofunctor" |
| 12:47:06 | <RedNifre> | Huh? I'm not sure I follow. Let's say you have ColoredText RED "Hello" and want a ColoredText RED "Hello, World"... the record update syntax is {}, but what would you name it, if you wanted to do nameHere text (++ ", World") ? |
| 12:49:05 | <ncf> | overString, or whatever your field's name is |
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| 12:49:21 | <RedNifre> | Sounds good! |
| 12:49:24 | <ncf> | (mimicking the generic `over` combinator for mapping over Setters/Traversals/Lenses) |
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| 12:50:01 | <ncf> | in the context of monofunctors it would apparently be called omap, but i think that's a bad name |
| 12:50:07 | <ski> | RedNifre : <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mono-traversable-1.0.15.3/docs/Data-MonoTraversable.html#t:MonoFunctor> |
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| 12:53:17 | <vulfe> | map! o, map! |
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| 16:16:15 | <sm> | lav: after installing ghcup and ghc 9.6, what else did you do ? something unusual ? |
| 16:17:08 | <sm> | or, what command did you run and error did you see |
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| 16:43:36 | <lav> | sm: nothing special. i think i was still actually running the old ghc. with the new one, i'm getting a lot of `Could not load module ‘Data.List’ It is a member of the hidden package ‘base-4.18.0.0’.` |
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| 16:49:26 | <sm> | that's not super clear. But it sounds like a case of old artifacts lying around. How can you reproduce it ? Eg does it happen in a brand new project ? |
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| 16:52:16 | <sm> | actually ignore my guess, Iet me save time and suggest |
| 16:52:16 | <sm> | @where paste |
| 16:52:16 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
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| 16:59:54 | <lav> | okay i tried making a new program and got this https://dpaste.com/FF85VZF3E |
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| 17:01:00 | <sm> | thanks |
| 17:01:23 | <sm> | I'd check the ghc --version you are running |
| 17:01:26 | <lav> | here's with -v https://bpa.st/ISLHQ |
| 17:01:37 | <lav> | wait what |
| 17:01:49 | <lav> | now it's 9.0.2 even tho i made a symlink and put that first in paste |
| 17:01:50 | <lav> | huh |
| 17:01:51 | <lav> | hold on |
| 17:02:13 | <lav> | first in path* |
| 17:02:39 | <sm> | hash ghc may be needed |
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| 17:03:55 | <lav> | here's with ghc 9.6 https://bpa.st/L6DAS |
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| 17:06:10 | <monochrom> | Oh, right, recent cabal produces a pretty restrictive environments/default file which doesn't even include base. |
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| 17:06:26 | <sm> | joy |
| 17:06:34 | <monochrom> | So basically if you said only "cabal install --lib foo" then the env file literally has nothing but foo. |
| 17:07:06 | <lav> | so, do i just add it manually? |
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| 17:07:17 | <monochrom> | So basically if you have to craft your --lib command like you craft your depends: list. You want base and foo and containers? Say "cabal install --lib base containsers foo" |
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| 17:07:40 | <monochrom> | If you understand the file format, add whatever you like. |
| 17:07:41 | <lav> | got it |
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| 17:08:17 | <monochrom> | Which is my case. I did a "ghc-pkg list" and added them all. OK except rts, that's an exception where it shows up in ghc-pkg list but isn't "real". |
| 17:08:31 | <lav> | yup, works now |
| 17:08:35 | <lav> | thanks a lot everyone! |
| 17:09:23 | sm | thinks this sounds.. messed up. ghc hello world.hs with an import Data.List should just work, surely |
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| 17:11:10 | <sm> | lav: if my recommendation of latest cabal caused this problem I'm sorry. Let me warn you that latest ghc might not yet work for all libraries, ghc 9.4.5 is still the more mainstream |
| 17:11:30 | <monochrom> | Even 9.2 |
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| 17:12:42 | sm | would avoid anything <9.4 given the many bugs squashed in recent years/months |
| 17:13:48 | <monochrom> | Um somehow that sounds like a plus. "I use 9.2 because many bugs are squashed" >:) |
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| 17:14:09 | <monochrom> | But more trivially I go with 9.2 just because ghcup defaults to it. |
| 17:14:34 | <geekosaur> | 9.2.7 has most of those bugfixes |
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| 17:15:00 | <sm> | not on mac I think |
| 17:15:02 | <geekosaur> | and I'm waiting for 9.6.2 before considering 9.6 |
| 17:15:05 | <monochrom> | Especially if one runs that curl|sh command the first time. Which is basically all of my students in 2 weeks. |
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| 17:30:10 | <monochrom> | For cabal I would recommend the latest too, despite ghcup's recommendation. Reason: It finally fixes an infidelity (when compared to what the user guide promises) in cabal.project semantics. |
| 17:30:25 | <monochrom> | Long standing infidelity. |
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| 17:32:04 | <Rembane> | Which infidelity? |
| 17:32:17 | <monochrom> | "glad you ask" |
| 17:33:32 | <monochrom> | "The following top-level configuration options are not specific to any package, and thus apply globally" was untrue. |
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| 17:35:06 | <monochrom> | Err, no, not that, not literally. But this: |
| 17:36:27 | <monochrom> | "Package options affect the building of specific packages. There are three ways a package option can be specified::" 1st bullet point "They can be specified at the top-level, in which case they apply only to local package" was untrue. |
| 17:37:16 | <Rembane> | Oh. What were they applying to if specified at top-level? |
| 17:37:27 | <sm> | a cunning trap |
| 17:37:29 | <monochrom> | To none, IIRC. |
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| 17:38:02 | <Rembane> | That's a true disappointment! |
| 17:38:18 | <sm> | the Haskell dungeon is not for the unwary |
| 17:38:26 | <monochrom> | Frankly by now I have forgotten how to reproduce it because "never looked back". |
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| 17:39:20 | <Rembane> | Sounds reasonable. |
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| 17:40:33 | <monochrom> | And the --lib problem I described, although 3.10 is a very severe extreme case, it is not like older versions were perfect either, just less obvious. |
| 17:43:26 | <monochrom> | So with 3.8 or before, "cabal install --lib foo" adds a lot more packages than foo to the env file. I think it adds boot packages that foo depends on. Since foo depends on base with extremely high probability, you'll get base at least. |
| 17:43:55 | <monochrom> | However if for example foo doesn't depend on mtl, then you'll be missing out on mtl. I ran into it often. |
| 17:44:10 | <monochrom> | or containers, etc. |
| 17:45:46 | <monochrom> | At some point it's a bit hard for me to distinguish between "honest oversight" vs "sabotage --lib to rationalize scaremongering against --lib". |
| 17:46:19 | <hammond> | how do you denote a random function in category theory, one to many? |
| 17:46:36 | <sm> | I can understand that |
| 17:46:39 | <hammond> | one to many mapping? |
| 17:46:50 | <monochrom> | Use the Giry monad. :) Then use its Kleisli arrows. |
| 17:47:22 | <monochrom> | And even better, the whole point of randomness is the probability distribution. |
| 17:47:49 | <monochrom> | Treating it as merely nondeterminsm doesn't cut it. At all. Totally missing the point. |
| 17:49:02 | <hammond> | so you have to treat it as returning the whole distribution? |
| 17:49:27 | <monochrom> | Depends on which level the word "return" lives on. |
| 17:50:05 | <monochrom> | (Grammar polices please remind me it should be "Depends on on which..." haha) |
| 17:51:06 | <monochrom> | Although, by most people's convention, at the level of the Kleisli arrows, they "return" "one" outcome. |
| 17:51:17 | <hammond> | so i can still treat a random function as a deterministic function provided i take into account that it's mapped to many solutions or many points. |
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| 17:52:53 | <hammond> | monochrom then i kinda run into the trouble of if i get a solution how do i know what input got me there. i can't map back. |
| 17:52:53 | <monochrom> | Oh, after a while you realize that denotational semantics tame all effects by choosing (cheating with) suitable codomains... |
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| 17:53:32 | <monochrom> | Use Bayes's theorem? >:) |
| 17:56:12 | <hammond> | suppose i wrapped this random function into another function that is well defined and I disregard whats inside the random function. |
| 17:57:14 | <monochrom> | "well defined function" just means "deterministic function" just means you can use fmap to bring it to the probabilistic world, no? |
| 17:58:23 | <monochrom> | "add 1 to input, feed that to random function, subtract 1 from output" just means fmap (+ 1) >=> r >=> fmap (subtract 1) |
| 17:58:46 | <hammond> | yes but for the time being i disregard the probabilistic world, then i can do all kinds of things with the upper function and I can be safe. |
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| 18:00:20 | <monochrom> | OK, so, no problem? |
| 18:00:41 | <hammond> | lol |
| 18:00:53 | <hammond> | well there is a slight uneasiness. |
| 18:02:27 | <monochrom> | It does come across that you don't want to learn probabilities. |
| 18:02:32 | <hammond> | maybe it's like our physical world, only when you go to small enough scales the random function starts getting to be executed. at larger scales you simple deal with the smooth deterministic functions. |
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| 18:04:46 | <hammond> | when you learn them it's just 50% this 50% that. what's so precise about them. they are not deterministic 100% true back to back. |
| 18:05:16 | <monochrom> | Oh but in reality, in all likelihood (pun!), it's going to be 95% this 5% that. |
| 18:05:25 | <hammond> | lol |
| 18:05:34 | <monochrom> | At which point you can't treat all possibilities as equally siginificant. |
| 18:07:17 | <hammond> | it's just adding structure. I'll look into this Giry Monad... see what it is. |
| 18:07:41 | <Franciman> | is haskell community also involved with semantic web efforts? |
| 18:07:53 | <monochrom> | I think no. |
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| 18:08:41 | <Franciman> | conjecture: haskell greatly helps with problems in the polynomial hierarchy |
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| 18:08:47 | <Franciman> | why not use it then! |
| 18:08:52 | Franciman | tries |
| 18:08:56 | <Franciman> | thanks |
| 18:09:18 | <Rembane> | How? |
| 18:09:41 | <Franciman> | i usually find it easier to develop stuff that would be exponential in the worst case, but usually behave pretty good |
| 18:09:44 | <Franciman> | like sat solver in haskell |
| 18:10:07 | <Franciman> | because laziness allows some ready made tricks |
| 18:10:19 | <Franciman> | just my conjecture, tho. YMMV |
| 18:11:01 | <Rembane> | That sounds like my experience too. |
| 18:11:08 | <Rembane> | When laziness is good it's really good. |
| 18:12:31 | <hammond> | but if i move the function +1 to the left wouldn't I be moving the whole distribution function +1 to the left too? |
| 18:12:37 | <jade[m]1> | mhm |
| 18:16:13 | <monochrom> | Laziness adds come convenience and takes away some other. As usual. |
| 18:16:51 | <monochrom> | For example many SAT solver techniques such as BDDs could use mutable pointers. |
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| 18:18:00 | <monochrom> | To be sure it's probably more like: Too many people work on mutable algorithms, too few people work on immutable algorithms. |
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| 18:25:27 | <jade[m]1> | sat f n = any f . sequence $ replicate n [True, False] this is one of the SAT solvers ever |
| 18:26:22 | <monochrom> | the simplest? the shortest? the most elegant? |
| 18:26:39 | <monochrom> | But I'm going to say the most impractical. |
| 18:26:58 | <jade[m]1> | indeed |
| 18:27:30 | <monochrom> | Even Davis-Putnam is a bit faster without being too complex. |
| 18:28:12 | <Franciman> | davis putnam is a must know which i don't know |
| 18:28:18 | <Franciman> | better keep up |
| 18:28:55 | <jade[m]1> | hm, I wonder whether we can have someone like a quantum SAT solver that works analog to quantum bogosort - pick a random permutation of arguments and destroy the universe if it doesn't satify the formula |
| 18:29:31 | <jade[m]1> | then, if any parallel universe exists we have proven that the formula is satisfiable, if not then it doesn't matter anymore |
| 18:29:53 | <monochrom> | AFAIK quantum bogosort does not exist. |
| 18:30:50 | <int-e> | monochrom: well, it's a black-box SAT solver, can't efficiently convert that to CNF. |
| 18:30:51 | <monochrom> | Generally if you try s/quantum/magical nondeterministic machine/ it does not exist unless otherwise proven. |
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| 18:32:05 | <monochrom> | https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-talk-3 for starters. |
| 18:33:28 | <int-e> | Hmm, quantum bogosort should kind of exist, but it's basically as stupid as the classical version because sqrt(n!) still grows (slightly super-) exponentially. |
| 18:33:54 | <int-e> | (at least coupled with Grover's algorithm) |
| 18:35:32 | <jade[m]1> | in the context of the joke - not sure what you're referring to - quantum bogosort would be O(1) |
| 18:36:06 | <monochrom> | OK fine, ObHaha |
| 18:36:32 | <monochrom> | I'm known to relay the "have you tried turning off and on again at the same time" joke anyway. |
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| 18:36:33 | <int-e> | Hmm is this taking the quantum suicide approach? |
| 18:36:41 | <jade[m]1> | yep |
| 18:36:43 | <monochrom> | Yeah |
| 18:36:43 | <int-e> | Rather than anything related to quantum computing? |
| 18:36:45 | <int-e> | Sad. |
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| 18:39:04 | <int-e> | It'll still be O(n) though. |
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| 18:39:59 | <int-e> | . o O ( Haskell's `sort` is O(1) as long as you don't use the result. ) |
| 18:40:10 | <jade[m]1> | int-e: right, yeah |
| 18:40:15 | <jade[m]1> | int-e: haha |
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| 18:41:30 | <akshitkr> | what is a quantum suicide approach |
| 18:42:11 | <jade[m]1> | if the shuffle does not yield a sort you destroy the universe |
| 18:42:22 | <int-e> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation#Quantum_suicide_thought_experiment |
| 18:42:30 | <jade[m]1> | because there's an infinite amount of parralel universes it'll succeed in one of them |
| 18:42:35 | <jade[m]1> | it's a silly joke |
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| 18:47:32 | <TMA> | it is a silly joke only in some of the universes, it is really funny in others |
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| 18:47:43 | <monochrom> | haha |
| 18:47:46 | <jade[m]1> | good one haha |
| 18:49:25 | <akshitkr> | lmfao |
| 18:49:43 | <akshitkr> | quantum suicide sort |
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| 22:25:57 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
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All times are in UTC on 2023-05-07.