Logs on 2023-05-12 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:01:55 | × | califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 00:09:52 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
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| 00:20:17 | × | bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 01:10:41 | × | albet70 quits (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 01:27:40 | Sciencentistguy9 | is now known as Sciencentistguy |
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| 01:33:09 | × | [itchyjunk] quits (~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 01:51:37 | Zymurgy | is now known as Sauvin |
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| 01:51:55 | × | Sauvin quits (~sauvin@about/linux/staff/zymurgy) (Changing host) |
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| 02:51:41 | × | use-value quits (~Thunderbi@2a00:23c6:8a03:2f01:d8c8:6fc6:e851:a318) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 02:58:37 | × | FinnElija quits (~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija))) |
| 02:58:37 | finn_elija | is now known as FinnElija |
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| 03:21:11 | × | evincar quits (~evincar@user/evincar) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 03:38:56 | × | waleee quits (~waleee@2001:9b0:21c:4000:5bf9:6515:c030:57b7) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 04:42:27 | ← | tusko parts (~yeurt@user/tusko) (Byeee) |
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| 06:40:58 | NiKaN_ | is now known as NiKaN |
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| 06:41:54 | × | bgs quits (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 10:56:16 | <miguelnegrao> | Hi. Has anyone ever seen the following function ? |
| 10:56:22 | <miguelnegrao> | catMaybes' :: [Maybe a] -> Maybe [a] |
| 10:56:26 | <miguelnegrao> | catMaybes' [] = Nothing |
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| 10:56:31 | <miguelnegrao> | catMaybes' xs = Just $ catMaybes xs |
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| 10:57:26 | <miguelnegrao> | I have a use case for it, FRP related... just wondering if it is a known thing. hoogle doesn't find it. |
| 10:58:25 | <jackdk> | miguelnegrao: what do you imagine this function does for nonempty lists? |
| 10:58:50 | <jackdk> | oh, I see. |
| 10:59:57 | <jackdk> | > :t Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . catMaybes |
| 10:59:59 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’ |
| 11:00:12 | <jackdk> | % :t Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . catMaybes |
| 11:00:12 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:1:31: error: ; Variable not in scope: catMaybes :: a -> [a1] |
| 11:00:31 | <jackdk> | % :t Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . Data.Maybe.catMaybes |
| 11:00:31 | <yahb2> | Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . Data.Maybe.catMaybes ; :: forall {a}. [Maybe a] -> Maybe (GHC.Base.NonEmpty a) |
| 11:00:52 | <jackdk> | miguelnegrao: That one^ you also get a proof that the list is nonempty after it's been checked |
| 11:01:01 | <maerwald> | those are two completely different things |
| 11:01:22 | <jackdk> | oh it is. It's late here. |
| 11:02:11 | <maerwald> | but indeed 'NonEmpty a -> [a]' is more conenient imo |
| 11:02:30 | <maerwald> | Nonempty (Maybe a) -> [a] rather |
| 11:03:08 | <maerwald> | I find such ad-hoc handling of empty list cases a bit difficult |
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| 11:03:47 | <maerwald> | (but I don't know anything about FRP) |
| 11:09:00 | <miguelnegrao> | So in FRP a Maybe a represents an event. The situation here is merging events from a list of event emmiters. If any of them sent an event we have an event, if none of them sent and event we don't have an event. If some of them sent an event, the resulting event is a list of all events emmited. |
| 11:09:46 | <miguelnegrao> | So I really have to use Maybe because all the FRP functions expect that |
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| 11:12:44 | <[Leary]> | miguelnegrao: Then isn't `catMaybes' [Nothing] = Just []` wrong? I think you actually want what jackdk wrote. |
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| 11:13:34 | <miguelnegrao> | It is true that I could just do `Just . catMaybes` and the result wouldn't be very different. This way the result is always an event emitted, but which might carry 0 subevents, so to say. |
| 11:14:17 | <miguelnegrao> | @Leary ah, I think you are right |
| 11:14:17 | <lambdabot> | https://wiki.haskell.org/Learning_Haskell |
| 11:16:24 | <miguelnegrao> | I wanted this one |
| 11:16:29 | <miguelnegrao> | catMaybes' xs = case catMaybes xs of |
| 11:16:31 | <miguelnegrao> | [] -> Nothing |
| 11:16:33 | <miguelnegrao> | xs -> Just xs |
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| 11:17:44 | <miguelnegrao> | But Data.List.NonEmpty.nonEmpty . Data.Maybe.catMaybes seems nice too, thanks. |
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| 13:31:22 | <absence> | is there a convenient way to specify the type when using OverloadedRecordDot, and (.fieldname) gives me a "cannot deduce HasField..." error? i was thinking something like (.fieldname @MyRecord) but that's a parse error |
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| 14:19:10 | <merijn> | hmm |
| 14:19:34 | <merijn> | I added -ddump-splices and -dumpdir to my cabal.project, but I can't find any actual directory with the splices |
| 14:20:07 | <merijn> | oh, wait, it's dumping them relative to the cabal file, not the cabal.project |
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| 14:29:49 | <merijn> | I don't suppose there's an easy way to disable a warning for a whole bunch of modules at once? |
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| 14:31:04 | <geekosaur> | aside from chucking it into `ghc-options`, no |
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| 14:31:40 | <merijn> | geekosaur: Yeah, but I don't want to disable it everywhere |
| 14:31:53 | <geekosaur> | I figured as much |
| 14:31:58 | <merijn> | persistent's TH is just generating code with name-shadowing warnings |
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| 14:32:20 | <merijn> | And I'd like to silence those, but I don't want to manually add that warning flag to like, 50+ modules ;_; |
| 14:34:32 | <merijn> | I don't suppose there's a way to set warnings for TH generated code either |
| 14:34:56 | <geekosaur> | nope. nor for regional control. ;_; |
| 14:36:31 | <merijn> | bah |
| 14:37:00 | <merijn> | Now I'm stuck with, like, 100+ warnings I can't reasonably disable until upstream is fixed ;_; |
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| 15:06:45 | <merijn> | geekosaur: Looks like it might be easier to fix the upstream bug then find out how to silence the errors xD |
| 15:07:07 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I was wondering if the easier solution was forking upstream 🙂 |
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| 15:07:26 | <merijn> | hmm...still some errors... |
| 15:07:44 | <geekosaur> | I mean TH already has support for generating new names that can't shadow or capture |
| 15:07:59 | <merijn> | geekosaur: Yeah I think I already fixed it |
| 15:08:55 | <merijn> | geekosaur: It's basically one loop where it uses the same Name for the field and the field pattern, so I just wrapped a newName around the variable and hopefully that works |
| 15:16:06 | <merijn> | https://github.com/yesodweb/persistent/pull/1494/files |
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| 15:30:04 | <merijn> | Wait, what |
| 15:30:11 | <merijn> | mtl doesn't work with GHC 9.0? |
| 15:31:45 | <maerwald> | what? |
| 15:31:54 | <maerwald> | mtl is a boot package |
| 15:32:31 | <merijn> | maerwald: mtl 2.3.1 has build-depends base <4.15 || >= 4.16 |
| 15:32:43 | <merijn> | So 4.15, is excluded |
| 15:33:01 | <maerwald> | I see... good riddance anyway |
| 15:33:22 | <maerwald> | 9.0 is mostly a useless release |
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| 17:05:41 | <strugglingCrab> | why is there a class for Foldable but not for Unfoldable? working with trees right now and the notion of unfold seems to me just as useful as the notion of fold |
| 17:08:03 | <[exa]> | you typically unfold a function of type (a -> (b,a)), which doesn't make a very interesting typeclass |
| 17:08:22 | <c_wraith> | You could use the recursion-schemes package. It's a more principled approach to both folding and unfolding |
| 17:09:09 | <[exa]> | +1 ^, if the unfold is properly specified with a recursion scheme, it makes sense |
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| 17:18:45 | <fr33domlover> | o/ I've seen 2 implementations of type-level `elem` (that produces a Constraint), one of them using a class and the other a closed type family of type Constraint. Is there a difference? Alternatively, why is AllF needed in sop-core: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sop-core-0.5.0.2/docs/Data-SOP-Constraint.html#t:All |
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| 17:44:10 | fr33domlover | tests in GHC, looks like it works with a closed type family, so no need for a typeclass unless a (value level) method is needed, I suppose |
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| 17:53:31 | <geekosaur> | afaik typeclasses and type families should just be two equivalent ways of doing the same thing |
| 17:54:16 | <geekosaur> | closed type families do give you one thing typeclasses don't, by virtue of being closed so nobody can create "surprising" instances |
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| 18:09:17 | <johnw> | type families don't do "instance resolution", they are just functions at the type level, right? |
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| 18:12:43 | <int-e> | johnw: Note though that matching type family instance left-hand sides is very similar to matching heads of class instances. |
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| 18:13:06 | <int-e> | hmm |
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| 18:17:27 | <ncf> | what's a type family instance? |
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| 18:18:31 | <geekosaur> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.6.1/docs/users_guide/exts/type_families.html#type-instance-declarations |
| 18:19:43 | <int-e> | ncf: "type instance Foo () = Bool" <-- the word "instance" appears here. |
| 18:20:38 | <int-e> | Another similarity is that type families are open (closed ones exist as an additional extension). |
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| 18:25:19 | <ncf> | isn't there also a mechanism to declare an associated type as part of a typeclass? |
| 18:28:34 | <fr33domlover> | ncf: Yes, an associated type family. `class C a where type F a` etc. |
| 18:31:28 | <int-e> | it's still a type family (it could exist separately from the class, but the compiler restricts how you define instances for it) |
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| 18:32:32 | <int-e> | (And it enforces that the type instance lhs equals the class instance head. So not only are they similar, there's actually a language feature built on the fact that they are basically the same.) |
| 18:37:24 | <ski> | modulo FDs |
| 18:38:18 | <int-e> | true |
| 18:42:42 | <ncf> | i mean, could you emulate/desugar "standalone" open type families by wrapping them in their own typeclass? |
| 18:43:22 | <int-e> | With an associated type? Yes, I think you can. |
| 18:43:30 | <dolio> | You probably could, but it makes more sense to do the opposite, which is essentially what happens. |
| 18:43:45 | <int-e> | It'll be more typing for no benefit. |
| 18:44:06 | <ncf> | the benefit is the number of concepts to worry about |
| 18:44:11 | <int-e> | (I mean the mechanical hitting of keys on the keyboard.) |
| 18:45:03 | <dolio> | It'll be negative benefit, because it ensures that every definition of one type by cases on others is required to also be associated to a(n empty) record of value level definitions. |
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| 18:49:39 | <johnw> | int-e: another difference is that type class instance resolution choosing a function to call at runtime, whereas a type family chooses a type to be used at compile time |
| 18:50:13 | <johnw> | (although, both happen at compile time, of course) |
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| 19:38:02 | <dminuoso> | johnw: Not necessarily and not in practice either. |
| 19:38:56 | <dminuoso> | While there is specialization and you can forcibly expose all unfoldings, polymorphic bindings across packages are (usually) not monomorphized |
| 19:39:27 | <dminuoso> | And arguably, the dict passing mechanism in core directly reflects on this |
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| 21:32:37 | <dsal> | What's the Expr thing lambdabot has, again? |
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| 21:33:17 | <ncf> | :t a |
| 21:33:18 | <lambdabot> | Expr |
| 21:33:36 | <ncf> | :i Expr |
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| 21:34:51 | <dsal> | I mean what's the package? I was trying to use it in a pm and couldn't do the thing I wanted. |
| 21:35:18 | <dsal> | someone was asking how `a & f & g & h` evaluates, and I was hoping I could just ask lambdabot to expand it, but it doesn't like that. |
| 21:35:27 | <geekosaur> | simple-reflect |
| 21:36:12 | <dsal> | Thanks. |
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| 22:04:07 | × | oo_miguel quits (~Thunderbi@77.252.47.78) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 22:04:08 | × | falafel quits (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-f61b-3ffe-7ea8-bd76.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:05:30 | → | euandreh joins (~Thunderbi@189.6.18.7) |
| 22:07:48 | × | freeside_ quits (~mengwong@103.252.202.151) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:08:11 | → | evincar joins (~evincar@user/evincar) |
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| 22:52:20 | → | ub joins (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf18b639baef9e2215b67ccc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:53:35 | × | ubert quits (~Thunderbi@p548c8bbe.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:53:35 | ub | is now known as ubert |
| 22:55:31 | × | gurkenglas quits (~user@dynamic-046-114-179-231.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 23:06:19 | × | ubert quits (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf18b639baef9e2215b67ccc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:06:37 | → | ubert joins (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf18b639baef9e2215b67ccc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:11:35 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 23:13:11 | × | falafel quits (~falafel@2603-8000-d700-115c-e4a6-93a1-aa26-3047.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 23:16:01 | × | ubert quits (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf18b639baef9e2215b67ccc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:16:01 | → | ub joins (~Thunderbi@p548c8bbe.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:16:02 | ub | is now known as ubert |
| 23:19:18 | × | bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 23:25:59 | mauke_ | is now known as mauke |
| 23:32:48 | × | Fischmiep quits (~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:37:11 | × | evincar quits (~evincar@user/evincar) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 23:41:43 | cheater_ | is now known as cheater |
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| 23:45:53 | × | Fischmiep quits (~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) (Excess Flood) |
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| 23:47:17 | × | bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 23:50:45 | × | cheater quits (~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:51:23 | → | cheater joins (~Username@user/cheater) |
All times are in UTC on 2023-05-12.