Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2023-05-14 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:15:14 <sm> [dmj](https://matrix.to/#/@dmj:libera.chat): what does that mean
00:15:56 <sm> configure dependencies that are added by default in each new project ?
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00:59:52 <sclv> hackage down rof redeploy
00:59:57 <sclv> er hackage down for redeploy
01:01:00 <statusbot> Status Bot enabled for #haskell
01:09:14 <statusbot> Maintenance update: Server upgrade complete. Hackage back operational. -- http://status.haskell.org/pages/maintenance/537c07b0cf1fad5830000093/6460267b5c22c605300a008e
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01:59:50 <dmj`> sm: Basically if I want to add a plugin to my current package, and all packages that my current package depends on, they would all get the plugin in their build-depends and would therefore need to be recompiled.
02:02:08 <dmj`> sm: mkDerivation = args: super.mkDerivation (args // { buildInputs = args.buildInputs ++ [ myPlugin ]}); is what I want to do
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03:30:06 <dsanchez> Naruto Uzumaki sodomizes Samuel Garcia Sepulveda, Governor of Nuevo Leon in Mexico, with a special sexual jutsu. Naruto gets to open a chain of 20 ramen restaurants in Monterrey in exchange for donating his semen to Samuel to ensure his wife Mariana gave birth to blue eyed babies! Read about it here! https://justpaste.it/Naruto_Makes_Love_Samuel_Garcia
03:36:59 <monochrom> /opme
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07:23:48 <jade[m]> hm, I wonder about the type hierarchy for monads. We need to 'prove' that a type is an applicative functor first, but isn't that able to be derived from the `bind` together with `pure`?... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/29d42836f5aebd1ff59d2fb722f1dbac302c428a>)
07:26:39 <mauke> technically "beforehand" is not required
07:26:41 <[Leary]> jade[m]: We have the Functor, Applicative, Monad hierarchy precisely because Applicative follows from Monad and Functor from Applicative.
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07:27:28 <jade[m]> mhm I understand, but wouldn't it be nicer to be able to write _just_ `pure` and `>>=` and the rest is derived?
07:27:31 <mauke> you can declare the Monad instance first and then just say: instance Functor T where { fmap = liftM }; instance Applicative T where { (<*>) = ap }
07:27:52 <jade[m]> ok yeah that makes sense
07:27:54 <jade[m]> thank you
07:28:13 <[Leary]> You can probably also do with with something like `deriving via WrappedMonad ...`.
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08:40:28 <Inst> what's the tradeoff between monomer and gi-gtk-declarative?
08:40:41 <Inst> i'm assuming monomer lets you directly message sdl, so i guess it comes down to sdl vs gtk?
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08:44:59 <Rembane> Inst: Before you choose one of them, check if they compile at all. I've heard rumours that gi-gtk-declarative has bitrotted quite badly.
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08:45:30 <Inst> I'm already using monomer, but acquaintances prefer gi-gtk-declarative
08:45:46 <Inst> monomer doesn't compile on 9.6.1 due to issues with nanovg
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09:57:30 <fr33domlover> What are the pros/cons of a class like `class Set (s :: Type -> Type) where` versus `class Set s where type Elem s` ?
09:58:22 <fr33domlover> (Advantage of the latter? Allows to define instance with a constraint on `Elem s`? While in the former, instance have to work for any element type?)
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10:14:09 <jackdk> fr33domlover: I think you have rediscovered class MonoFunctor from package mono-traversable. But these days I use lenses instead
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10:18:33 <fr33domlover> jackdk: I'm aware of that package :) Asking in general though, when writing a typeclass in a library, how do I choose between monomorphic and polymorphic? The latter is the common default (Functor, Monad, etc.) but is the former widely acceptable too?
10:19:19 <jackdk> I would probably exploit parametricity unless I had a good reason not to. Makes it harder to write the wrong code.
10:20:35 <fr33domlover> I'm trying to do a little trick that seems to be impossible without dependent types, and switching to monomorphic would solve the problem for me
10:21:51 <fr33domlover> But it's also because I'm trying to avoid using a type like aeson's Value or persistent's PersistValue and instead have each type be separate
10:22:05 <fr33domlover> (Is this a waste of time? :P)
10:23:47 <fr33domlover> Which is what makes my code need a typeclass to abstact over those types (they're in a closed type family, but there's no way to pick a parser/reader function for a type without a typeclass because no dependent types)
10:27:28 <jackdk> I am struggling to visualise your design. Do you have a snippet that you can pastebin?
10:34:57 <fr33domlover> jackdk: https://bin.nixnet.services/?86c84aa151f20723#56DGrCyKoT8u6jLx3oxDj9VNDYrTAkqnWfJWzapyWhfn
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10:36:08 <fr33domlover> I'm probably going to get rid of this "Face" type thing because Idk how to implement a Slab instance like this
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10:36:19 <fr33domlover> But if anyone knows a way, I'd love to know ^_^
10:36:56 <jackdk> Is the set of types you need to abstract over finite? You could shove them into the indices of a GADT if so?
10:39:25 <jackdk> The other tack you could consider is to use Typeable somehow
10:39:43 <fr33domlover> jackdk: I'm new to this so can't tell intuitively what a GADT would give me versus just using `data Face = FaceText Text | FaceByteString ByteString` (but I'll try and see)
10:41:10 <jackdk> fr33domlover: given `data Face a where { FaceText :: Text -> Face Text; FaceByteString :: ByteString -> Face ByteString }`, pattern-matching on a constructor of `Face a` would bring a constraint into scope telling you which constructor it was.
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10:41:42 <jackdk> Er. bring a constraint like `a ~ Text` into scope telling you which type you had. Maybe useful?
10:42:05 <jackdk> I don't know what the words "slab" and "engrave" mean, so I am still not understanding the problem you seek to solve
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10:45:29 <fr33domlover> jackdk: 'retrieve' would read a file and use 'see' to parse it into some type 'a'. Trouble is, a 'retrieve' implementation needs to choose whether to parse a Text or a ByteString out of the file, based on `type EngraveFace a`
10:49:18 <jackdk> if you use a fundep instead of an associated type, or if you put an injectivity annotation on the associated type, you could reason back through it maybe?
10:50:11 <fr33domlover> I can't find a way to do that because it needs to pick a file reader function (e.g. readFile or BS.readFile) based on the specific Face type, and the only way to pick a value based on a type seems to be a typeclass (I'd love to pattern-match on the Face type but Idk how)
10:51:09 <fr33domlover> jackdk: Reasoning back is fine, what I can't do it pick the file reader function (a value) based on the reasoned type
10:51:55 <fr33domlover> I'm guessing it's impossible without a typeclass, I just want someone more knowledgeable to confirm that :P
10:53:06 <jackdk> https://github.com/brendanhay/amazonka/blob/3e66cc1b07f2818d0b4fc346310ecdb1c3c27599/lib/amazonka/src/Amazonka/Env/Hooks.hs#L470-L472 this sort of thing? if the types are the same, then pattern-matching `Refl` brings into scope a constraint saying so
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11:01:20 <fr33domlover> jackdk: thanks, I didn't know this is possible! It does mean I need to handle the Nothing case by throwing an error at runtime, but it might work, I'll try ^_^
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11:44:16 <ski> "the only way to pick a value based on a type seems to be a typeclass" -- one could also e.g. pass a record (which is how type class constraints tend to be implemented, in general)
11:44:27 <ski> fr33domlover ^
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11:49:46 <ski> (btw, to perhaps make it clearer. one could with GADTs do `data FaceType :: Face -> Type where { FaceTypeText :: Text -> FaceType FaceText; FaceTypeByteString :: ByteString -> FaceType FaceByteString }'. so matching on a value of type `FaceType a' against one of the patterns `FaceTypeText t' or `FaceTypeByteString b', would bring `a ~ FaceText' (and `t :: Text') alternatively `a ~ FaceByteString' (and `b ::
11:49:52 <ski> ByteString') into scope)
11:50:49 <ski> .. i'm not sure what `s' in `Slab s' would be, in instance of `Slab'
11:57:15 <fr33domlover> ski: How do I produce the GADT value though? So that I can match on its constructors (other than using `eqT`)
11:57:15 <fr33domlover> the `s` in `Slab` can be something like `Int` or `data Person = Person String Int` etc. etc.
11:58:08 <fr33domlover> Ah oops ignore the last message
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11:58:56 <fr33domlover> `s` would be something like `data File = File FilePath` that implements `retrieve` by reading from that file
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12:34:45 <ski> fr33domlover : "How do I produce the GADT value though?" -- i don't know, since i don't understand the situation you're trying to model
12:35:29 <ski> fr33domlover : "`s` would be something like `data File = File FilePath`" -- that makes no sense, because `File :: Type', but `s :: Type -> Type', in `Slab s'
12:36:09 <ski> perhaps you intended for `File' to be parameterized over the type of value stored at that `FilePath'
12:36:21 <ski> ("phantom types", possibly)
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12:43:11 <dminuoso> jade[m]: Note, part of the reason this cant be done automatically is because there are types that are just Applicative but not Monad, otherwise we could have an `instance {-# OVERLAPPING #-} Applicative f => Monad f`. And in fact its because those types exist why we have Applicative in the first place.
12:43:52 <dminuoso> In some way the superclass relationship is somewhat awkward, due to the presumed coherence condition (where you assume some sort of extensional equivalence between ap and (<*>), as well as pure and return)
12:45:47 <jade[m]> yeah that makes sense
12:46:21 <dminuoso> On the other hand, perhaps its a bad idea. Maybe we would have been better off with ap and return instead.
12:46:48 <dminuoso> Such that Applicative is the typeclass of things that can sort of "run concurrently", and Monad is the typeclass of things that can sort of "run sequentially"
12:47:09 <dminuoso> Right now that's kind of screwed up, because as soon as you have a Monad instance, its Applicative instance has the same "sequential effect" baked in too
12:47:43 <jade[m]> yeah I know that, I was just wondering whether we could infer some things "from above" rather than having to show it "from below"
12:48:08 <jade[m]> <mauke> "you can declare the Monad..." <- essentially this
12:48:29 <dminuoso> It would be nice if would you could express a typeclass instance, whose selection is dependent on whether or not another instance exists.
12:48:31 <dminuoso> But you cant
12:48:46 <jade[m]> mhm
12:49:59 <dminuoso> Say we assumed some `instance {-# OVERLAPPING #-} Monad f => Applicative f where (<*>) = ap; pure = return`
12:50:16 <dminuoso> You could write this, and in most places this would work just fine.
12:51:09 <dminuoso> However, because the constraint `Monad f` is not considered for the purpose of *selecting* an instance candidate, this will not play nice with errors
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12:51:29 <dminuoso> (Because you can think of it as an instance for *all* types f, irrespective of whether we have Monad)
12:51:46 <dminuoso> Even something like `data T a = T (a -> a)`
12:51:49 <jscript> why do i get this? http://0x0.st/HNeb.txt
12:52:05 <jscript> for cabal install haskell-language-server
12:52:08 <dminuoso> jscript: mismatching ghc version
12:52:28 <jscript> how do i install one for 8.4.4
12:52:53 <dminuoso> jscript: Not possible
12:53:16 <dminuoso> HLS since published on hackage always demanded base >= 4.12 (which corresponds to GHC 8.6.1)
12:53:36 <jscript> how do i obtain that version
12:53:46 <dminuoso> Upgrade your GHC installation.
12:57:18 <jade[m]> hm, can you partially apply a type parameter if it's not the first parameter? We can express `r ->` as `(-> r)`, but is there a way to express `r ->` without a newtype
12:57:21 ski . o O ( "Supertyping Suggestion for Haskell" by John Meacham in 2004 at <http://repetae.net/recent/out/supertyping.html> )
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12:57:27 <ski> jade[m] : no
12:58:28 <ski> (and you mean `(->) r' (aka `(r ->)'), not `(-> r)'. the other one would be `(-> r)' (`Flip (->) r', basically))
12:59:05 <jade[m]> yes, typo
12:59:17 <jade[m]> and yes again, is there a Flip type like that?
12:59:29 <jade[m]> Or do I need to define it myself? - I suppose it would be trivial
12:59:56 <jscript> hmm WARNING: You don't have a mk/build.mk file.
13:00:06 <ski> @hoogle Flip
13:00:07 <lambdabot> module Data.Bifunctor.Flip
13:00:07 <lambdabot> Data.Bifunctor.Flip newtype Flip p a b
13:00:07 <lambdabot> Data.Bifunctor.Flip Flip :: p b a -> Flip p a b
13:00:31 <jade[m]> thank you very much
13:01:53 <ski> @hackage bifunctors
13:01:53 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bifunctors
13:03:51 <jade[m]> <ski> ". o O ( "Supertyping Suggestion..." <- interesting
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16:24:32 <fsestini> Hi. I'm trying to write a client in servant to query an existing API. One of the endpoints returns a response in variable content type, so i tried to model this with a Get [T1, T2,...] T, where T1, T2, etc. are all the MIME types I need to support. I was hoping that things would "just work" and servant would decode the response into my result type
16:24:32 <fsestini> T according to the content type listed in the response header, selecting the appropriate MimeUnrender instance. Alas it doesn't seem to be the case. What actually happens is that servant will try to decode the response according to the first content type T1, and fail if unsuccessful, disregarding the other types T2, etc. In fact servant won't even
16:24:33 <fsestini> care if I don't have an instance of MimeUnrender for anything but T1. Am I missing something here? How can I get servant to actually support multiple response types?
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17:03:25 <fsestini> uhm, I think this partially answers my question https://github.com/haskell-servant/servant/pull/552
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17:50:49 <fr33domlover> Thanks ski! I wrote a version with a regular ADT, will try to switch to a GADT to see its contribution
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17:55:32 <strugglingCrab> not sure what im missing but why does this function produce an infinite list
17:55:37 <strugglingCrab> chunks :: Int -> [a] -> [[a]]
17:55:38 <strugglingCrab> chunks _ [] = []
17:55:38 <strugglingCrab> chunks n xs = let (x, xs') = splitAt n xs in x : chunks n xs'
17:57:29 <ncf> which call produces an infinite list?
17:57:46 <strugglingCrab> chunks 3 [1..9]
17:58:00 <ncf> i get [[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]]
17:58:06 <strugglingCrab> hmm
17:58:15 <ncf> using splitAt from base
17:58:20 <jade[m]> do you call it with an infinite list?
17:58:21 <strugglingCrab> yea
17:58:24 <strugglingCrab> no
17:58:53 <ncf> how are you concluding that it produces an infinite list?
17:59:08 <probie> strugglingCrab: what do you get if you call `take 10 $ chunks 3 [1..10]`?
17:59:36 <strugglingCrab> calling it in ghci doesn't terminate, just prints a list consisting of the sublists you would expect followed by a non ending amount of empty lists
17:59:49 <ncf> do :i splitAt
17:59:59 <ncf> oh, i see what's wrong
18:00:11 <ncf> you need to either put both cases on the same line with a semicolon or use :{ :}
18:00:28 <strugglingCrab> probie [[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9],[10],[],[],[],[],[],[]]
18:01:06 <ncf> otherwise each line redefines the function
18:01:13 <ncf> so you don't have a case for []
18:01:18 <strugglingCrab> ahhh
18:02:13 <jade[m]> yeah that's a quirk of ghci
18:02:26 <jade[m]> but it makes sense why it does that
18:02:26 <strugglingCrab> i see, i got it to work now, thanks :]
18:05:35 <monochrom> This is why coding up a whole project at the REPL doesn't scale. Use a file.
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18:06:58 <strugglingCrab> monochrom i am using a file but i wanted to try this single function at the repl to see if i implemented it correctly
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18:10:19 <fr33domlover> I often use `:load xyz.hs` and then `:edit` to change my code and instantly get a REPL to play with it
18:10:32 <fr33domlover> So, it's both a file and a repl :P
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18:10:52 <jade[m]> the repl loads the file
18:11:00 <monochrom> :!ed xyz.hs so the editor looks like a REPL too!
18:11:06 <jade[m]> you shouldn't write the function in the repl, just test it
18:11:44 ski 's set that to use `emacsclient -nw'
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18:12:22 <strugglingCrab> i normally just test but i had other type errors in the file that i didnt want to fix for the time being
18:12:47 <monochrom> Ah, tell ghci to --fdefer-type-errors
18:12:59 <monochrom> err, just one dash, -fdefer-type-errors
18:13:19 <strugglingCrab> ah, wasn't aware about this that seems handy
18:13:29 <monochrom> It is actually what I tell me ghci, especially when in emacs haskell mode
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18:14:15 <monochrom> Also, use "undefined" for stubs/TODOs generously.
18:16:05 <strugglingCrab> what is the haskell/cabal equivalent of cargo check
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18:16:23 <strugglingCrab> ie just outputting warnings without building
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18:16:41 <monochrom> We don't have that.
18:16:49 <strugglingCrab> because hlint doesn't lint for some things for which i thought it would (unused imports for example)
18:16:54 <strugglingCrab> ah okey
18:17:25 <geekosaur> ghc -Wall -fno-code
18:17:28 <monochrom> Or maybe we do, ghc -fno-code, cabal build --ghc-option=-fno-code or something
18:18:22 <monochrom> But REPL's :load is almost as fast as -fno-code already
18:18:43 geekosaur mentions ghcid
18:19:42 <strugglingCrab> thanks, will use -fno-code then
18:20:13 <strugglingCrab> another question but the context is a bit long so i put it in a pastebin (https://pastebin.com/uCLh4nn9)
18:20:45 <strugglingCrab> i just dont get how this error message makes sense, becaues the code is in a module from which the constructor of Board is not even visible
18:21:10 <strugglingCrab> so i couldn't even pattern match on it if i wanted to from how i understand it
18:21:45 <strugglingCrab> also, shouldn't this pattern catch all of those mentioned patterns anyways
18:22:54 <geekosaur> ghc can't understand the intent of your code to know those are complete
18:23:01 <monochrom> The compiler uses a dumb and conservative algorithm for this. It has false alarms, yes.
18:23:24 <geekosaur> s/understand/know/
18:23:31 <monochrom> But if your last guard says "otherwise = 1" the algorithm is happy.
18:24:01 <monochrom> Although, if it's tic-tac-toe, what if the board is not full and no one has won yet?
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18:25:20 <strugglingCrab> oh, i thought that was a "solved" problem, i remember a talk by that simon haskell guy (sorry, forgot his full name) about developing a dsl for exhaustive pattern analysis in lazy languages or something
18:26:13 <strugglingCrab> also, evalBoard is part of a minimax implementation so it will (assuming i dont make mistakes) only be called on leaves of the gametree
18:26:38 <monochrom> To be sure, I haven't followed that development, so I don't know how good it is today.
18:27:07 <monochrom> Right, so if you do have a precondition, the compiler doesn't know.
18:27:23 <strugglingCrab> yes, but i dont see how that relates to the error that is displayed
18:27:36 <monochrom> Or rather, refuses to know. GHC is still not a whole-program-analysis compiler.
18:27:39 <strugglingCrab> the pattern im matching on is just "board"
18:27:49 <geekosaur> the pattern includes guards
18:27:57 <monochrom> Ah it just reuses the wording "pattern" for guards.
18:28:14 <geekosaur> ghc will try to analyze your guards as part of it but isn't very good at it
18:29:57 <strugglingCrab> also, is there a way to suppress cabal telling me the details of the order my program is compiled in
18:30:40 <monochrom> Some of that comes from GHC itself, too.
18:30:49 <monochrom> I don't know either of them.
18:31:19 <monochrom> or rather, how to suppress either
18:31:50 <geekosaur> -v0 ?
18:32:13 <strugglingCrab> ah yes that works, thanks
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20:42:35 <sclv> iirc there's a more potentially complete algorithm but its to expensive, so ghc uses something a bit less complete, but which won't blow up compile times and memory
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20:46:51 <hellwolf[m]> without using template haskell, how can I achieve something like `foo = return __FUNCTION__NAME__ <> "is my name"` ?
20:47:10 <geekosaur> without using TH, you can't
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20:47:57 <jade[m]> why do you want to do that
20:48:21 <geekosaur> debugging, presumably
20:48:30 <jade[m]> ah
20:48:30 <monochrom> Probably because there are hundreds of functions needing that. Which in turn probably because "better error messages". :)
20:48:56 <geekosaur> `HasCallStack` might be of some interest, but it's somewhat magical and can require you to retrofit that constraint everywhere
20:49:05 <monochrom> Ironically if you just use error, you need to nothing and you even get line numbers!
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20:50:30 <monochrom> Hrm TH is a interesting thought. I have test cases that use, say, the == relation and I want the failure message to also say "fails the == relation"...
20:50:55 <monochrom> or perhaps s/failure message/name of test case/
20:51:56 <monochrom> But I'm too lazy. It's rabbit holes all the way down...
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20:52:44 <monochrom> You don't need HasCallStack until you want to see a more complete call chain.
20:53:41 <geekosaur> not entirely true, as even without the call chain you get the magic behavior that gives you access to the function's name and location (which is how `error` gets it)
20:54:43 <monochrom> OK yeah error has HasCallStack. I mean you don't need to add your own additional "HasCallStack=>"s
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20:57:06 <mauke> > getCallStack callStack
20:57:08 <lambdabot> error:
20:57:08 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: getCallStack :: t0 -> terror: Variable not in sco...
20:57:23 <mauke> t0 -> terror, indeed
20:57:32 <monochrom> haha
21:00:56 <sm> call stacks in haskell.. so confusing!
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21:19:20 <probie> `foo :: HasCallStack => String; foo = (fst $ head $ getCallStack callStack) <> " is my name"`
21:19:59 <geekosaur> with the appropriate import
21:21:23 <geekosaur> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.2.5/docs/html/libraries/base-4.16.4.0/GHC-Stack.html
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21:33:46 <hololeap> I'm caching a data structure and a timestamp using the binary package and I have a question about laziness
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21:34:22 <hololeap> I first want to check the timestamp to see if the cache is invalid, before even bothering to read the datastructure
21:34:37 <hololeap> currently I have them in separate files
21:35:18 <hololeap> but could this be achived with one file which contains (Timestamp, Datastructure)?
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21:38:11 <geekosaur> at the price of possibly leaking file descriptors / Handles, which aren't necessarily in great supply
21:39:23 <geekosaur> unless you're doing this in one step (that is, you read the timestamp and immediately check it to see if you need to read the rest), this may not be a good idea
21:39:59 <geekosaur> and even if you are doing that, you may want to check the buffer size (not only of the Handle but also of the filesystem) since you may already have read the whole thing anyway
21:40:59 <hololeap> geekosaur: well, here's the actual code as I have it currently
21:41:00 <hololeap> https://github.com/hololeap/hackport/commit/685adc420d8a116c8c87d2a50c6c46f3c82cfc48#diff-04adf15b9a8515feafbb7305b398384104adf72635d98f334bebf000b55879c7R105-R115
21:41:36 <hololeap> so right now it's reading the timestamp file, checking to see if it's valid, and _then_ proceeding to read the other cache file
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21:41:46 <hololeap> I would just prefer if I could do this with one file
21:42:21 <geekosaur> there should be no reason you can't technically, but again this isn't so much a laziness question as a resources question
21:42:47 <geekosaur> 5000 Handles open simultaneously may not be a great idea
21:43:14 <hololeap> I'm confused why one file would require more handles
21:43:48 <geekosaur> I'm not sure you gain much if you're not doing this with more than one file
21:44:18 <geekosaur> moreover I don't see how it's a laziness question in that case
21:45:05 <geekosaur> if you're making the decision right then, there's no difference between strict and lazy
21:45:27 <geekosaur> if you're reading the timestamp now and using it and the associated trie later, then you have a laziness question
21:45:47 <hololeap> right, which is what I'm doing :)
21:46:15 <geekosaur> you're still potentially leaking a Handle in that case
21:46:29 <hololeap> ok, I think I see what you're saying
21:46:49 <geekosaur> also I don't think that's necessarily a laziness question, just that it might be one
21:47:06 <geekosaur> you will have read the start of the trie but that's a filesystem thing, not a Haskell thing
21:47:31 <hololeap> ok, separate files it is, then :)
21:47:32 <geekosaur> whether you parse it immediately or not is up to your code
21:48:14 <geekosaur> if you parse immediately you probably lose laziness. if you don't, you hold a Handle open until you need it and you need to remember to clean it up at some point
21:48:58 <hololeap> right, and that's a lot of mental overhead to avoid having two files
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21:51:37 <hololeap> thanks for the advice, geekosaur
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