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| 02:54:34 | <yin> | jackdk: what's special about the latest GHC? |
| 02:55:55 | <jackdk> | yin: In the context of warning management, it is the one that has the longest expected lifespan |
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| 03:45:21 | <Clinton[m]> | I vaguely recall someone saying that instead of writing:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/9b18dba8f26bd6de23e61e4717b9a52f4ce0412e>) |
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| 04:40:44 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sop-core/docs/Data-SOP-Constraint.html#t:And ? |
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| 07:02:24 | <Inst> | so wait, (.) and ($) are CPS to an extent? |
| 07:02:31 | <Inst> | :t flip (.) |
| 07:02:32 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c |
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| 07:07:57 | <[exa]> | depends on the extent |
| 07:08:19 | <Inst> | i still don't get how CPS forces tail recursion |
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| 07:09:48 | <[exa]> | you can hard-convert non-CPS `f` to a poor man's CPS version as (.f) but that's it I guess |
| 07:10:36 | <[exa]> | how do you mean "forces"? as in evaluates or enforces? |
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| 07:42:24 | <merijn> | Any experts have any life hacks to get GHC to stop complaining about unused imports? |
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| 07:44:33 | <jade[m]> | -Wno-unused-imports? |
| 07:44:51 | <_________> | or just add some parens: "the form import M() is never reported as an unused import" ;) |
| 07:44:51 | <merijn> | jade[m]: obviously, but I mean a single one |
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| 07:45:23 | <merijn> | The problem is that I have an explicit import that, annoyingly was moved to Prelude in recent base, so now it bitches about the import being unused |
| 07:45:33 | <merijn> | But if I remove the import everything breaks on older GHC |
| 07:45:56 | <jade[m]> | can you use a base-version if-pragma thingy? |
| 07:46:00 | <jade[m]> | I think that's a thing? |
| 07:46:19 | <merijn> | jade[m]: If you enable CPP and then I need to that everywhere, yeah, which is also annoying :\ |
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| 07:47:02 | <Hecate> | CPP is not that bad |
| 07:47:12 | <Hecate> | less worse than the annoying warning at least :P |
| 07:47:13 | <merijn> | I mean, it kinda is :p |
| 07:47:17 | <Hecate> | merijn: how big is your project? |
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| 07:47:32 | <Hecate> | you could consider a custom prelude that gathers all your CPP |
| 07:47:37 | <Hecate> | and re-export tricks |
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| 07:47:42 | <merijn> | 15-20k LOC |
| 07:47:53 | <Hecate> | so not a 3-files library |
| 07:47:54 | <merijn> | Hecate: Yeah, I was kinda considering that |
| 07:47:58 | <Hecate> | aye perhaps it's the best |
| 07:48:24 | <merijn> | Hecate: I just wish unused-import ignored duplicate from Prelude so people continually adding shit to Prelude doesn't break everything |
| 07:48:47 | <merijn> | Since, apparently, "shoving everything into Prelude" is what "we" want nowadays |
| 07:49:23 | <Hecate> | merijn: what's the item that bothers you? |
| 07:49:51 | <merijn> | Hecate: this time it's asum that was moved from Data.Foldable into both Control.Applicative and Prelude, apparently |
| 07:50:05 | <Hecate> | ok |
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| 07:50:09 | <merijn> | but this isn't the first time this happens |
| 07:50:32 | <Hecate> | so qualified imports can't really help you here |
| 07:50:35 | <jade[m]> | I wonder if we would be better of if there was no prelude whatsoever, and all imports would be explicit |
| 07:50:38 | <Hecate> | weird I wonder when it happened |
| 07:50:41 | <jade[m]> | probably not |
| 07:50:52 | <merijn> | Hecate: All my imports are always using either qualifications or explicit import lists |
| 07:51:06 | <merijn> | Hecate: So generally "stuff going into Prelude" is the only thing that affects me |
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| 07:51:47 | <Hecate> | jade[m]: some stuff you really want accessible, but I agree prelude is too big. The problem is that we also have to explicitly import every module we need, instead of being able to reference them |
| 07:51:49 | <merijn> | Hecate: Which is why I'm now considering if changing unused-imports to ignore duplicates from Prelude and adding a more pedantic warning that includes even Prelude would be worth it |
| 07:52:10 | <Hecate> | I miss Elixir on that point |
| 07:52:10 | <Hecate> | just being able to write List.map |
| 07:52:22 | <merijn> | Hecate: Then I can just disable the Prelude warning and keep everything else |
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| 07:57:39 | <merijn> | Hecate: ugh, actually re-exporting it is just gonna make me have to use CPP in a different module and still modify everything else too |
| 07:58:59 | <_________> | merijn: what if you add dummy, unused function e.g. '_ = Prelude.map' ? ghc doesn't seem to complain about it. |
| 07:59:21 | <merijn> | GHC absolutely does complain about unused functions |
| 07:59:31 | <merijn> | It only does not if you don't have an export list |
| 08:05:02 | <_________> | merijn: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/gjxeoRlW - for me ghc doesn't complain about Prelude not being used in M.hs nor about _ being unused. |
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| 08:06:23 | <merijn> | You're import Prelude qualified there, though? |
| 08:06:32 | <merijn> | *importing |
| 08:06:39 | <_________> | yeah, to be sure I'm not using it anywhere else |
| 08:07:21 | <_________> | if I remove "_ = P.map" ghc complains |
| 08:07:45 | <_________> | so it might count as a hack to silence unused import, imo ;) |
| 08:08:42 | <merijn> | _________: Yeah, but you can't do that if Prelude isn't imported qualified and that's, uh, a rather invasive change with 0 change of happening :p |
| 08:09:20 | <_________> | ok, right, hmm |
| 08:10:04 | <_________> | when Prelude is not qualified it also works ;) |
| 08:12:09 | <_________> | just try adding `_ = map` at the top to silence the unused import |
| 08:12:45 | <merijn> | _________: My problem is that Prelude is providing a name that I am *also* importing from Data.Foldable |
| 08:13:24 | <merijn> | The name *is* actually used, but it complains because it already has it from Prelude, so the Data.Foldable import is "unused" (except on the previous base versions Prelude doesn't export it, so I *need* the Data.Foldable import) |
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| 10:11:02 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/167 |
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| 10:13:25 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: Bodigrim is incorrect |
| 10:13:37 | <merijn> | because the "hiding" will trigger another warning in earlier base versions |
| 10:13:57 | <merijn> | "import Prelude hiding (asum)" gives a warning that Prelude doesn't export asum in older base |
| 10:14:46 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: in the case of #167 it will work, right, because Prelude does export some parts of Foldable even in earlier version |
| 10:14:46 | <tomsmeding> | s |
| 10:15:04 | <tomsmeding> | just wanted to send this to you because it sounded relevant and to see you get angry :p |
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| 10:23:00 | <probie> | The Foldable type class always seemed a bit weird to me. The name implies that it's "things you can fold over", but the expectation is that it's "things you can fold over as if they were list", then with things like `foldr'` thrown in just in case you can _also_ fold over it in a different way |
| 10:24:51 | <tomsmeding> | probie: foldMap does exhibit your expected structure |
| 10:25:05 | <tomsmeding> | but you're right that it's quite specialised to lists |
| 10:25:36 | <tomsmeding> | ah, unless you interpret "fold" in the catamorphism sense, in which case the name is indeed weird |
| 10:26:12 | <tomsmeding> | but a general typeclass with the "simplicity" of Foldable for general catamorphisms is not going to fly |
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| 10:28:19 | <probie> | One day recursion-schemes will be more mainstream |
| 10:28:57 | <tomsmeding> | probie: I mean, having to get base functors into the picture in the first place already makes the whole thing quite a bit more complex |
| 10:32:12 | <probie> | I can still dream |
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| 10:40:01 | <probie> | but my belief is that what is currently known as `Foldable` should have had a name that was less to do with folds, and more to do with lists (not that I'm suggesting changing it at this point) |
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| 11:55:51 | <merijn> | What are people using as their "default" GHC version atm? I finally managed to untangle myself from 8.10, but not sure whether I should be going for 9.4 or 9.6 as default starting point now |
| 11:58:42 | <geekosaur> | I'm still on 9.2.7 |
| 11:58:48 | <_________> | fedora has ghc 9.2, gentoo and debian 9.0 |
| 11:58:51 | <geekosaur> | will consider 9.6.2 when it comes out |
| 11:59:03 | <merijn> | geekosaur: Yeah, I was thinking of maybe 9.2 too, but I was thinking that was maybe too old |
| 11:59:14 | <merijn> | _________: 9.0 is a bit of a "ick" release :p |
| 11:59:51 | <merijn> | Usually I lag the most recent GHC by one release (so that'd be 9.4), but 9.6 has been out for a while and 9.8 will come this summer, so I was thinking maybe I should just go straight for 9.6 now |
| 12:00:29 | <geekosaur> | of late I've just been doing every second release and skipping .1 |
| 12:00:51 | <geekosaur> | so I went 8.6 -> 8.10 -> 9.2 and will do 9.6 |
| 12:01:20 | <merijn> | Maybe I should check the 9.6 release notes and see if there's anything sexy |
| 12:01:39 | <geekosaur> | not really, it seems to mostly be a bugfix release |
| 12:02:22 | <merijn> | bah |
| 12:02:33 | <merijn> | 9.6 has a warning for * as type by default, ick |
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| 13:16:18 | tomsmeding | is on 9.4 |
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| 13:25:58 | <dminuoso> | merijn: Oh I know! We could rename Foldable to something with the words Free and Monoid in it! |
| 13:26:05 | <dminuoso> | That might make it clearer. |
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| 13:31:36 | <byorgey> | =D |
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| 13:43:57 | <Hecate> | hahaha |
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| 13:47:09 | <carbolymer> | chatgpt has failed me - how can I get constructor name of a Typeable ? |
| 13:47:27 | <carbolymer> | `tyConName . typeRepTyCon . typeOf` returns type name |
| 13:47:29 | <merijn> | Data.Data.Data or something, probably? |
| 13:47:41 | <merijn> | carbolymer: Typeable only knows about types |
| 13:47:55 | <carbolymer> | merijn: why there's `tyConName` then? |
| 13:48:07 | <merijn> | type constructor name? |
| 13:48:18 | <merijn> | That clearly returns the name of the type constructor? |
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| 13:48:33 | <merijn> | You want Data.Data.Data |
| 13:48:39 | <carbolymer> | idk, there's no doc |
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| 13:48:53 | <merijn> | or uniplate or something |
| 13:49:39 | <merijn> | I'm sure Hecate would love to know about these missing docs :) |
| 13:49:46 | merijn | runs and hides |
| 13:50:21 | texasmynsted | faceplam --> chatgpt |
| 13:50:49 | <carbolymer> | https://stackoverflow.com/a/18297508 wow, `head . words . show` |
| 13:51:03 | <dminuoso> | carbolymer: toConstr |
| 13:51:38 | <carbolymer> | merijn, dminuoso, thanks, Data.Data seems the best option here |
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| 13:55:33 | <jean-paul[m]> | I'm looking for a way to clean up these offset calculations for a Data.Binary.Binary instance - https://whetstone.private.storage/privatestorage/tahoe-ssk/-/blob/5.decoding-and-decryption/src/Tahoe/SDMF/Internal/Share.hs#L118-123 - it would be great if Put exposed how many bytes have been put, or did some other tracking to help. Since it doesn't ... is there a way to do this more nicely? |
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| 13:56:54 | <dminuoso> | carbolymer: Yup. Roughly `Data` is runtime Generic stuff |
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| 13:57:32 | <dminuoso> | The documentation of it all is very lacking. |
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| 13:58:17 | <merijn> | jean-paul[m]: I mean, dumb suggestion: You can just "runPut" (or whatever it was called), get a ByteString and query it's size, then "serialise" the ByteString? :p |
| 13:59:05 | <merijn> | Not super efficient, but probably efficient enough unless this is some hot loop |
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| 14:02:39 | <Hecate> | merijn: <3 <3 |
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| 15:08:09 | <jean-paul[m]> | is there a good reason Data.ByteString.Lazy lengths are represented as Int64 instead of Word64? |
| 15:08:48 | <merijn> | jean-paul[m]: Yes |
| 15:08:58 | <merijn> | jean-paul[m]: Because you, inevitably, want to do math on their lengths |
| 15:09:07 | <merijn> | and converting every time and in every API is annoying as shit |
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| 15:09:51 | <merijn> | jean-paul[m]: I've tried using purely unsigned in C++ a few things that indicated length and it's just so impractical |
| 15:10:26 | <merijn> | And, errors are easier to detect, since underflow won't wrap around |
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| 15:23:03 | <jean-paul[m]> | Okay, sounds plausible, thanks. |
| 15:24:17 | <merijn> | jean-paul[m]: As an experiment, you could compare Vector (which uses Int for indices) and Array indexed with Word and write some code in both to compare the UX :) |
| 15:25:33 | <geekosaur> | we (xmonad) do a lot of stuff with X11 types, some of which are unsigned and some of which are signed. we end up using `fromIntegral` so much that we have an alias `fi` for it |
| 15:25:47 | <jean-paul[m]> | That sounds like it would be educational, indeed. At the moment I am dealing with a specific case where I have a data format that represents a lot of values as unsigned, including the length of some fields. It would have been convenient here, I think, for ByteString length to have a matching type ... but maybe not more generally. |
| 15:26:18 | <jean-paul[m]> | Heh. And right now I am combing through a PR removing all of the unsafe fromIntegrals :) |
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| 15:27:27 | <jean-paul[m]> | It would probably be a good excuse to finally look at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/witch |
| 15:27:51 | <merijn> | ooh |
| 15:28:10 | <merijn> | I need to look at that and see if I can either integrate it into or pilfer some techniques for validated-literals :p |
| 15:30:46 | <merijn> | Although witch has to many dependencies to depend on it, I think |
| 15:35:11 | <merijn> | I don't suppose there's a good for a function with polymorphic input to force monomorphisation of polymorphic literals? i.e. polymorphic function 'foo' applied to literal 2.0 creates ambiguity due to '2.0 :: Fractional a => a' that I want to avoid |
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| 16:21:32 | <maralorn> | I have a problem debugging a space leak: When I use -hT it primarily says "THUNK" or "THUNK_1_0" but I have no clue what type that thunk has or where in the code it is. When I use infotable profiling and -hi I see the entries which are the thunks but they don’t get any type or source annotations. |
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| 16:43:27 | <Inst> | can i get some help with windows? |
| 16:43:57 | <Inst> | it seems that when there's too many netsing levels, my builder fails :( |
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| 16:44:57 | <Inst> | erm, when my directory filepath is too long |
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| 19:14:36 | <sm> | g'day Inst. There have been a lot of fixes for this (sad!) issue over the years, so a general recommendation would be to try newest versions of things and see if it helps. Or at least check their changelogs. |
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| 19:16:55 | <[exa]> | Inst: tbh windows may not be very good for doing software, there are spikey traps like this everywhere |
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| 19:44:41 | <Artem[m]> | maralorn: I also didn't have too much luck with my attempts at infotable profiling, but just to double check: do you compile with `-finfo-table-map` **and** `-fdistinct-constructor-tables`? |
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| 19:54:45 | <maralorn> | <Artem[m]> "maralorn: I also didn't have too..." <- Yes, I do. It was actually already helpful to me. |
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| 19:56:15 | <Artem[m]> | Good to know. I wish there was more blog posts showing off this feature |
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| 21:53:34 | <Inst> | finally got continuations working in Haskell, but I can't write a good pure CPS function |
| 21:53:35 | <Inst> | :( |
| 21:54:05 | <Inst> | ContT Identity is almost performing as well as recursive accumulators, though, so now I want to know whether or not ContT IO is a useful type performance-wise |
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| 22:42:13 | <jackdk> | edwardk: skimmed your recent stream about hkd/distributive stuff. Super excited to see it get some attention again, I'd love to have a good hkd-flavoured version of representable |
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